Just when you thought we were out, you pull us back in. We are back. For a final time to talk about the offer in a little wrap up episode, as ever, I'm joined by the Mario Puzo, to my front door. Go, Bola.
Will Chitch, how are you doing, Will? Are you well? Good, yeah. Cheers, mate yourselves.
Yeah, very well. Very well. I'm kind of... I don't know.
I'm slightly sad that this is the final time. We will be discussing the show. I've enjoyed this past 11 weeks, drinking wine, having a lovely time with you. It's been lovely.
I've got a lot of 11 bottles of wine. Yeah. Of fairy equality. Nice.
So, now that we've... Yeah, let's dive into it. Shall we talk about... Yeah, we're drinking some wine this week.
Shall we have a little jingle and talk about our wine? So, Will, what have you gone for this week for our final discussion on the offer? It's gone on with a Shiraz Cabernet and it's a wolf blast. And it's a nice drop.
It's a nice drop. I've had a couple of times and I thought, don't nice drop, so I'm going to have it again. Lovely stuff. Lovely.
Just because I wanted to beat the Amazon delivery charges, I bought... Because I think it would have worked out 20 pounds, a little closer to 20 pounds to buy one bottle of cobbler wine. I bought two. So, it cost me 24 pounds and we got three deliveries.
So, I'm back on. I'm back on the Coppola Rosso and Bianco Cabernet's 7-1. And it's just like last week, it's going down an absolute bloody tree. Oh, lovely.
It was a bloody lovely drop, the fairness. Yeah. If I had the money, it would be my regular go to, do you know what I mean? I think 12 pound a pop is probably a bit too rich for my test.
Yeah. I have to start making cuts elsewhere, do you know what I mean? I don't know. Yeah, I just like yellow label it.
Yeah, I feel like I'm going to be doing that thing. Yeah. No. I can't make any more cuts.
I don't think I agree with it. Can we just make a couple more cuts? Like, really like the Coppola wire? I don't think she's going to go up and get on board with it.
Come on. We'll get rid of one of the kids. Yeah, they can share the shoes. It'll be fine.
Amazing. So to kind of talk to you guys through what we're going to be doing this week, we're going to be just going to be talking about the season as a whole, our thoughts as well. We've kind of let them ruminate and settle and kind of going through like a few different things, whether it's our favourite moments, issues we had with the series, kind of diving in a bit more to the fact versus fiction of it and kind of picking that apart and looking at where they got it right and kind of some of the surprising aspects of that. And we're also going to be discussing where we would theoretically, if this got season two, where are the potential places it could have gone?
So as well as that, yeah, we're going to run down our top five characters. We're going to hash it out together and kind of it'll be a joint top five to rethink the best characters in this show. So let's start off with being a week out since finishing the series wheel. How are you kind of feeling about the finale, particularly of the offer now?
How does it sit with you this week? Yeah, the issues I had with it, it didn't sit well still, I'm still a bit disappointed by it, but the bits were good. The more I think I could watch it, I could watch it again, because those great bits with the gang and the Previer and those, for those bits, I could easily watch that for the finale again, just the more they took with the Previer and that kind of stuff was really great. It's just, I would quite happily have it finished there without more ready stuff.
So I think that was it. It kind of, yeah, for me, if we went, we watched 10 episodes of a season with the Godfather, I would quite like just finish with the Godfather. I totally agree with you that. Yeah, it's kind of like, give us that post script of where they went on to next.
Just give us that like kind of scroll we get on the end or just give people, I don't know, like let them do their own research. I mean, where did these people go? Some of them, it's obviously it's written in the stars. We know, I mean, we know Francis, hopefully goes on to make part two.
We know that kind of his career is like kind of blossoms throughout the 70s and then gets a bit rocky throughout the 80s. It's kind of, I don't know. And there's certain people like, I don't know, does Hint set what Mario Puzo did next? Do you know what I mean?
But he doesn't even get like a close credit. It's like, oh, Mario Puzo, do you know what I mean? Went on to work with this, Francis even just, yeah, from. Yeah, I think I think Francis did, Bob did, and obviously, I bet he did, but really didn't because we had the, well, swords, but we had the whole, this is, yeah, that, that, I think that last 10 minutes was a bit of a misstep in the tone of the show.
Because that, that, they want to go high, it was great. When they were at the premiere, they all got together and you knew the, like, it wasn't exactly a spoiler, they turned up to be quite a good film. But in the context of the show, when they all, like I said, when they also went up and they was at five, when they were meeting up against, we hadn't seen Puz over a while, that was great. And that, to me, I'm betting I have an early moment.
Well, he had his moment because the film was great. I don't know why we needed that stuff. I just think it was a bit of a misstep. Like we said, like last week, I think that's down to the fact that already was involved and no one else was.
What I think is quite interesting and I listened, but the interview that Our Ruddy did on Mark Marin today, and some of the things he kind of says in that, like, he, he strongly eludes to like, he says that Michael Tolkien came to his house and like kind of interviewed him over 70 hours, just kind of getting his life story. And Our Ruddy says like, and some of it was the truth. So I think he's acutely aware that like, he's kind of peppering these stories and making them about him. And what's like really fascinating about it is even when he's telling the story to Mark Marin, he says like, so one day Michael was put in his stuff in his bag, ready to leave.
And he turns to me and says, I wish I met you 30 years earlier. And he's like, Oh, why is that? Because listening to your story, I would have like, I could have done so much with my life that I didn't do. You just went out and did it.
Like you would have made such an impact on my life. And I was like, even now he's trying to like, he's still trying to be like, yeah, Jimmy, we're like, I think the reason people may feel like that from watching this show is like, fuck, you know, that guy blacked his way into working for power about Jeremy, blacked himself into being a producer. Like, I think, yeah, I think maybe that is part of the reason, like, the critical reception has been great. And people have taken the game.
So it's because, although it says inspired by in the title, see, it's inspired by the stories of Al Worthy. It's not really, it is, it's promoted as the story of the making of the Godfather. Not promoted as Al Worthy's version of it, you know, which is not the easiest cell, but I think that is why there is bits of it. They are so outside the realms of truth.
You don't fuck off, mate. Yeah. And what's quite interesting is he is quite open about the fact that like a lot of it is fiction and kind of says like, he's, he's, he openly admits he's like, yeah, I kind of knew that the show was never destined for a water or anything like that, because at the end of the day, like it's not that kind of show. It's kind of, it's purely entertainment.
And I think that's that is what it is. And I think that is, that is potentially what people have taken against somewhat is that they wanted a kind of like, tell all this is what happened, like in the making of the Godfather kind of verbatim. So, so what happened? Yeah.
And I think maybe when, like we said, when that first clip came out, when there was a bit of already a backlash, which was an odd choice of clip of the piano me in and people went, what the fuck, but even then, I think people took against that clip because it was kind of being marketed as a procedural. Pounds was sees like, not, not a bit of fun, like as the making of the Godfather started Miles Taylor and, you know, and, and then that clip is not, it's not the ending of the show at all. But because that is quite, it out of context and stuff that does look like something could come from something trying to be a prestige show. One.
And yeah, when you watch the show, you go, oh, that's not this short talk. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's really not. It's absolutely not.
I think it's episodes, which are frankly batshit men. But that's part of the fun of it. So I think that's the shame that it took a bit of a battle in and necessarily. So what are you kind of like, obviously, yeah, like the critical reception has been kind of rocky with this.
I'm going to quickly pull up what the what the current Rotten Tomato score is because I'm interested to know, obviously, we've mentioned it before elsewhere on the podcast, but and it was a, it was a decent, it was a decent kind of audience. So the critical score is 57%, which is kind of from what we know and kind of a red like and listen to sounds about right, right? Like 57%. Yeah, from what?
Yeah. So do you want to hazard a guess as to what the audience score is for this show? I would say, people like it who watch it. I'm going to go mid 80s.
Yeah, oh, Louise, 80s 95%. That's it. So, yeah. So I like, and I think like, yeah, I didn't think I'll discuss this with down a photo, but it's something I ended up discussing with down a photo.
Yeah. Yeah. Anyone listening to my conversation with down a photo, one of the stars, of the offer. And yeah, we talked about the fact of why potentially critics could have taken against it.
And I guess a lot of them, because it seemed to be a lot of people who were like steeped in film as well, do you know what I mean? Like, because I guess there's that fine line between like film fans and TV fans and as kind of culture is going, criticism is going, there's like people cover both, right? Or a kind of entrenched foot in both worlds. So, yeah, and I think a lot of those people are probably really red up on the truth and the kind of what actually happened with the Godfather.
And maybe had preconceived notions of what that might be like as a show and this show. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, no, it's not.
It is just fun. And I think maybe you had this show because of the way the landscape with television is there's so much television. It is like so much quality TV. That's not the image and anything that the offer does.
But I think maybe if this had been even five years ago, I think it would have done a lot better. Yeah. I think it's just because this is this is a pretty good idea. And I was like, every thing that's every star led show about a historical thing is going to be serious.
TV or, you know, and it's either be prestige or it's got to be trashy. Yeah, exactly. And this is falls in the middle somewhere. Like it's not trashy.
It's actually not trash because, like we said, the production was a great. But it's not. It's not trashy in the way of Brian Murphy, trashy, which is high budget, but it's like fundamentally quite trashy. Do you know what I mean?
Like, yeah, I mean, you know, some of the volume of it is proper and there's nothing wrong with that. I think I love it when it's in the right mood. Camp trashy nonsense. Great.
But it's so weird. This falls in the middle. It's not it does have these moments of that, but it just falls somewhere in the middle where I think maybe it got lost in the shop. Yeah.
Yeah. I get that. So what are your kind of thoughts on the series as a whole? Like, are you you hot on it?
Like, have you cooled on it at all? Or you kind of, yeah, would you watch it again? I think so. I think I've watched it again because it's the great moments and even the mad.
You could consider trashy moments that they can have a wild moment. Are great. Did those outweigh the the death moments? And it's a couple of death moments.
But I think from the perspective of knowing like what the show is and it's just fun. I could quite anything in a couple years, it would be a hangover binge. No, it'd be like, Oh, it's a Sunday. I am I am seeing the offer for yours.
I just think I don't blast through that. Yeah. That's the kind of show is I think from our perspective, it would be kind of interesting to watch it just as a bit of entertainment as kind of like obviously that's kind of the stance we've took on it as kind of doing these deep dives, but the same time we have still had to brought an analytical eye to it. Whereas like I can imagine watching this and kind of letting it just wash over you and just enjoying the romp that is kind of discounting the truth and the kind of the real life events would make really, yeah, it does make for entertaining TV in that way.
Yeah, actually, because obviously you, you know, a lot more with the golf arm and stuff than I did. So it's only through our conversations on this. Sometimes we're going, Oh, really, that's not true. Oh, OK.
So potentially I would have something that would just go over and then we're just actually watching this with entertainment. It's really fun. And possibly with that, those different moments where it's really on the nose, bingeing it and just enjoy it, just let it go on. I probably wouldn't have thought about those as much as I did.
They just would have been just going to have what if I just enjoyed it. So yeah, I'd be interested to watch it again further than we like and see, they still hold up. Right. Yeah, that's interesting.
I think I'll definitely watch it again at some point. I think it'll be a lot of fun. So what are some of your, yeah, you talk about some issues with the show? What are some of your major issues that you had with the show?
Any plot lines, any key things that stick out to you that were a bit old? Kind of, yeah. I mean, there was, I mean, one of the major, I don't think we both agree on, which was a big misstep, was the James Khan and... Gianni Russo stuff.
Yeah, that was even more, it was definitely anyway. The way it was dealt with the whole, like making him a piece of shit. And they were trying to deal a little bit with me too, that kind of thing. I just, it was just, yeah, it was just so on the nose, it's just badly dealt with.
And even more so knowing it was a complete fabrication, those things, was a strange choice to make. And I think like a slightly dangerous choice as well, I mean, like, Gianni Russo is still a lot. I mean, like some people who don't know, do you know what I mean? A lot of the people watching this don't, like, probably aren't going to investigate.
That is going to be their impression of a real life person, which is like kind of, I don't know, whether, yeah, whether Al Ruddy particularly thought that Gianni Russo was a bit of an asshole. Like, I'm sure he's not a saint, do you know what I mean? I know from kind of, I've read part of his autobiography and, yeah, these guys are dealings with the mob, like, is, you know, I believe he killed someone in self-defense and stuff like that. I mean, it's kind of, he's got his hands dirty and he's kind of used to work for the mob and stuff like that.
So there is like, he's a guy who's been around the block a few times, but I think to level allegations like that against somebody, even if it is in a piece of fiction, he's still a real life guy. He's still, he's still, but like, oh yeah, I had not been doing this with you. And knowing, because I probably wouldn't have thought of, yeah, I would have absolutely, that would have been my opinion. I would have gone, oh, that happened then.
Do you know what I mean? So it is, they, those bits were clearly, when it becomes quite clear that we're Al Ruddy's version of events. And yeah, they just, they do hit with a clang sometimes, you know. Yeah.
You know, it never bothered me enough to go, oh, I'm not watching this anymore. It's just ridiculous. But there was a few times where you do go, come on, this is, this is a big call. Yeah, let's let's chill out a bit.
Um, OK, yeah. But one of my kind of issues of the show is the handling of the Francois's plot line and the kind of like just the swift exit of their character. And no, she's like, it's no real payoff to that. She's just kind of, she's gone.
Like, yeah, it just all felt like, kind of, I don't know, steamrolled through that whole kind of relationship. And it's somewhat felt at times like she was included as like a plot device to kind of give some tension for Al. And it's like sometimes it was unnecessary tension. There was tension as well elsewhere.
And I know that there's aspects of, yeah, he was, he was, he was, he was married to her and like potentially like they did split up whilst they were making this. So I can. That whole Francois thing. That was, I think it's almost like there was occasions where they were working through Ruddy's bullet points.
So like he was like, oh, yeah, and then I was in that relationship, but then it stopped. And that is like the way it's like, well, just stopped. Yeah, okay. We'll just do that.
So it was no, they didn't do anything with it. Yeah. And the same was like characters would just disappear with no. Yeah.
And then the character arcs were strange as well. And then we get that kind of like shoe horned in like a girlfriend for one episode who is just literally there to. For me was one of the, I mean, the James Brown stuff and I was the fan. And the end of that episode is the worst moment in the show.
It was just such a, it just didn't work. And it was so on the nose. And just, yeah, but literally had nothing to do with anything. Just the whole thing served the purpose for it to make that little like monologue at the end about the horse's head.
Yeah. But she herself was shit. Because it just was pointless because we, we, I think something they showed it. It's, it was great.
I'd like, so if you weren't really able to go for that, I knew the father got for it. It was great in letting you, letting you in as just a casual view of the godfather. But it also teared on the line. I was going, like, we know you're a little bit stupid.
So we're going to explain this to you. Yeah. And that was the one time I thought, right? If this is how it goes, we don't have a problem here.
But it was fine. But yeah, that was my worst moment. Any other bugbears for you? Like, I'm not for sure.
She never worked for me. It's, I didn't, there was a moment towards the end of the Latino arc. I never quite believed. And I didn't quite ever buy into the idea that you just wasn't quite charismatic enough.
There was an act moment where I was like, only until there was one moment in the filming of the dying up. But by the end, it was too late. Again, it was a little bit of a spoonfare. Whereas there wasn't, there should have been maybe moments where you go, oh, fuck, he is.
I can see it now. He's great. There was too much of him, frankly, moping about. Well, I think that's kind of endemic of like one of the key problems is that the cast of the godfather do not get any time to shine whatsoever.
And they're kind of not not really introduced to us at all. Like we get that scene at the dinner table and kind of on reflection. It's like, I wish we had some scenes before then of like, even if it's them in meetings, meeting these people for the first time or seeing them do an audition and kind of awesome rehearsals, do you know what I mean? Something where it's like, yeah, you get to, you get to, like, even if it's not like, so no, that copa did stuff with them where it was like, at one point, he, he like made a pachino and Diane Keaton, like, like, spend some time together and go out shopping.
Do you mean, like, which I would have taken over the stupid girlfriend some plot and the Francois stuff. I mean, again, you have to have that Francois stuff. But I think the way they dealt with things were quickly in the show in just a conversation. You kind of could have done that with Francois.
And then we could have had more of the, because it felt like they didn't set that up. And again, I think you were like, like a bit more than me, I did a part scene. But I just, I thought that was quite clunky as well, because it was so quick. They all sat down and also just I know that it happened, but it would have happened with a few obviously the contestants, the one, one did it.
Yeah. Yeah. But it just felt like, it's too cheesy. And I was like, this is, I don't know, it just, I would have preferred an, even if they just used an episode, like you say, have those meetings to set up who's in the godfather.
But you had nothing for like, bank eatin was just mentioned that did it by, so I assumed it was a set up or something to come. Nothing. Yeah. Yeah.
Like literally pretty sure for some of those people, that's really their only scene. I think like we get to see Diane Keaton when they're setting up for that shot, when they're outside of the department store on like doing Christmas shopping. We see a moment of the act of the gentleman playing John Kazale, when they're setting up for the shot of the Don being shot, like Jimmy can't get that shoehorn bit, like Jeremy like seeing, and it's like, I wish we'd had more of the cast, like even the fact that it felt, they felt really absent in that finale. Jeremy, it's like, yeah, I mean, you could have had, it's about set up, you could have, you could have easily shadowed that set up of them all being together the first time of having, which I wonder maybe that was, and it's just not budgeted, but maybe because of 10 episodes, not worth it.
But you could have had them all with the premiere. We could have had the, again, the of ready sensiveness of this show. The whole of the premiere was ready. Really, it was just those all photos where you could have had cuts to when they were announcing the categories, it would have been nice to see.
Yeah, because you could have cut to everyone. So it was another shadow in the dinner party, but we didn't see any of them. And one of the thrusts of that final episode became very much about the fact that like it was our ruddies turmoil over what will his next move be. And it kind of like, it got to a point somewhat where it was like, this is almost like overshadowing the fact that like the godfather is like nominated for 11 Academy Awards and like, we're leading up to the premiere and stuff like that.
It's like, I 100% agree with that. I mean, because it felt almost like the premiere set was the set up to like, say his inner turmoil of what he was going to do when it should have just, I'd even shit about that. Because I've watched 10 episodes by the make of the godfather. So the whole, the end really should have been the, the winner, not, like I said, not the hero pose of our ready, winning an Oscar.
If you made a bullshit about everything else, you could have quite easily bullshit and have them all go up on stage. I mean, and I could have been your end. You're going to have a pool. So all of a month's days holding the Oscar job done because you've taken the artistic places with it now.
So it doesn't really make any difference. Well, in the fact that like none of the cast are visible at the like the part, like the after party. You have that silly, silly conversation, which you're not, it sounds like going to be a really negative on this show, but it's not to be a really joyous place. Yeah.
This is the negative bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So like, yeah, but like, again, you have quite this regardless of what they were. There's a big moment that even so as a pattern interesting, you know, just knows that moment, the brand, those stuff, which they dealt with incredibly weirdly. They just went, oh, this is going to be odd. That's all they said.
And then you have exposition dump of, I can't believe my own van though didn't turn up. And he said, you know, you could have had quite a nice, you could have had a whole episode in the premiere of the shenanigans going on. Yeah. Sorry, the Oscars.
Yeah. So a whole episode of that, because they did that thing in the episode where they were cutting back and forth in time, right? So the way the show is with the paper stuff, you could have quite happily taken, you're making most of it up as you go along. Why not have, well, you mean Marlon's not here?
And then that, you could have had that paper and then this is how you could have met them, and I'm keeping in the episode, but it didn't. They decided to go, we're going to deal with ready one and to make the longest yard. Yeah, because I guess some people as well, like watching that scene of them all at the Oscars, they'll be like, Oh, who's this woman sat on the end, especially as she gets like when Marlon Brando's announced, they're like best actor and she gets up and like walks like walks the stage. Just like, could that have been set up?
And it kind of felt like, I don't know, like, yeah, that conversation between Betty and Peter Bart was like, Oh, shit, we need to kind of, you know, we need to address that. Let's do this. And it kind of came across like quite clunky. Well, you'll be like, I'd say very clunky because like, that is that as much like the family and I loved all that the Oscar staff.
And it was the one episode of really clearly for me anyway, said this show may as well have been called ready by this point because it was like that. It was almost like they were already was telling a story. Yeah. The Mark, we'll talk about me.
Don't worry about the Marlon Brando's. That happened. Talk about me. Remember the longest yard coming?
Let's talk about, and that was a bit of a shame because I don't give a shit about the longest yard. And that kind of, in a turmoil, what is going to happen next? Kind of make sense if this was like to be a kind of running series over multiple seasons and it was like the many, the many tales of our Ruddy. Do you mean it?
Yeah. And we know that it's not going to be that. Do you mean this is a limited series? Like this is it?
Like, and like we'll get into it more in some detail. But I think if you were to have any story and I'm probably stepping on something from later, but I think how Ruddy is probably one of the least people I would want to see the further adventures of. Yeah, 100%. Like it, I didn't watch it.
I wouldn't have flicked through if we weren't doing this, flicked through Harrimon Plaswell. I didn't eat the show. Or sorry. The story of our Ruddy, the producer of the other, only went on to make the longest yard.
Sounds great. I wouldn't have. What, what I can get in with the fact is to make it to the Godfather. So that's how the finale should have been, ending with the Godfather.
Like, if it was, which is fine, if you were going to make that show about the Ruddy shenanigans, then, yeah. But it wasn't. And it's not what's true me. So before we move on to some of the things we liked about the series, is there any more bug bears or kind of scenes that stand out to you that were particularly clunky or badly done?
Well, we don't think so. I think it was just those, I'd say what is we haven't really, we've been talking about. And it's funny how quickly the mob stuff is. It's like, I forgot, you kind of forget it was her old mob.
Some plot, which was basically the question. Yeah, it was the first six episodes. Yeah, it was the mob stuff. Yeah.
Yeah. I think. Yeah, at least into. Yeah, it's the first seven at the mob stuff.
So it was all the way up to episode nine. You get the closure and episode nine. Don't you with them? Of course.
They're at the screening. I already put on for them. Yeah. Yeah.
Of course. They're going to have the screen. I was episode nine. Could you forget?
Yeah. So how do I size out when Joe Colombo shot as well? Well, you kind of get that stuff of Joe. You get that episode with Joe Gallo, basically, but turning up the hit, don't you?
In episode seven. And then it's like, boom. Oh, no, not even episode seven. Episode eight.
It's like, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's put on our money, give me the money. And like, that's going to be dealt with in one episode. But he's put the heat on.
Don't worry. He's done with it. Yeah. You feel like a forgotten, but then you think, oh, yeah, a big chunk of the show.
This about the mob. And that's your impression. It's like, yeah, I'm going to get it. I mean, you forget all that was going on as well.
I mean, some of that was that stuff. I think I can forgive that. I thought it was death, but it was the fact that a lot of that was about then the mob said we don't like the stereotypes of us being mobsters and beating the shit out. So I went and talking exactly like the mobsters with a substance.
So, but yeah, but I was fine. Now that's what it was. But yeah. Yeah, I kind of I don't know.
I know that they never would have done it because I think there's so much story to tell from this with this that like, let's be honest. It's probably what about nine hours in total because not a episode clock in an hour long. So it's probably close to nine hours of of of series here. And it's about that thing of like, like, it could have kind of easily been like a 13 episode season.
I mean, if you've got one part, if you've got one chance to do it, just do it. Just give it that little bit more breathing room and kind of, I don't know. I think sometimes it got a bit, I guess it possibly is because it is the story like the how Ruddy knows is a lot of his dealings probably were with the mob and like the kind of politics angle of like getting a film made where it's like, I don't know, I think for me personally, you know, that's why I'm very hopeful that we'll get like in other mediums of its films or television, we'll get this story told again, but from a different perspective, so we'll hopefully get the front support, popular story is as we mentioned before, like the Barry Levenson but hopefully we get that hopefully we get something that is like about how much of a struggle it was for him, for instance, so kind of. I don't know.
It's actually right for this version of it, the fun version, but it's actually why I thought I'd quite happy what a serious could easily be a serious drama, a prestige show, there's so much in it. Like there's massive things that are like left out of this, the fact that like, and even if they want it to add to like the pressure that copa was under, is like, his wife was pregnant during the filming of the Godfather and Sophia copa was born during the like during the shoot of the Godfather. And again, it could have made for like a really funny moment in an episode. Is it it's her who is the baby who gets christened at the end of the Godfather?
Michael and K Sun is the baby, they use it. It's Sophia copa. And it's like, why not add some of that kind of like, do you think stuff to add into the show? And also, yeah, and also it is juicy stuff.
And like you say, it is also would have been in keeping with the tone of the show. Yeah, like you could quite easily, you could quite easily see that as being one of those, one of those caper episodes you had where my god, we've got to hear here where Francis has got to get you know, he kind of like those kind of things are left out in favor of. Would you never really get any mention of the fact that he does have a family? Do you mean like, well, no, which again is, I think is the biggest issue with the show is and get possibly the reason people to against it and possibly it's not as because it is the ready story.
And it's very ready. Like he's it almost like he wished himself where he's always already is at the center point of everything that he anything that goes right is somehow already, which is fine. But if the show would be marketed or sold as the story of already, do you mean? So I think that's the biggest problem is it's just from his point of view and he's not involved.
So it is more of the ready show. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'm not sure why they couldn't have like optioned a book like leave the gun, take the cannoli and like use that as like it's based on that.
And then just being able to have told a more all round story as opposed to like I don't know. Yeah. And is it safe to say that like, is our running the most interesting person to follow in this show? I'm not quite convinced he is.
Well, he's not. He's just not. He says strange things when you think back on the episodes, it's the first couple of episodes that is not it's almost like it's just the bed a bit and goes, well, let's just let's just do the already stuff because the set up the first couple of episodes is exactly the show we're talking about that we thought we wanted to show the beat because we had a lot of Francis, we had a puzzle right again, you had that he do instead of fun and there was the set because we saw who's straight away with his wife and that set up we thought, what are we going to do? So kind of the next the flatter two episodes kind of did set up that show.
But then it slowly decided to become the already show, which is a shame. Well, let's yeah, yeah. I think we focused on some of the negatives for maybe a bit too long. So let's talk about some of the positives.
What are some of the moments in this show as a whole that you particularly enjoyed in some of the, I don't know if it's tonal things or things that they got right and you kind of particularly enjoyed it. I mean, it's bobbin it. Yeah, they absolutely smacked to a bobbin. It's like whether I'm saying, I think, I guess this is not this way, but Matthew Butts performance is so good.
Like every time he's on screen is electric. You like, oh, you're the easiest bobbin. And I was just saying that that was the same in those early episodes with Francis and Mario. Yeah.
Those scenes are those together. Well, even in the whole time, it's still my favorite scenes because they were genuinely great, really funny. You could the relationship between them was great. Yeah.
I think I would have to answer the fact that like those two guys, like actors like Patrick Gallo and Dan Foe, like live together for a short period and stuff like that. Yeah. And they kind of only got characters. You could see the chemistry there was and it was they were roughly funny.
Like really that those three performances in the expression of first cover episodes, Pooso, Francis and Bob. Right. Like I wish we had more of Mario Pooso. I just even if he was just knocking on the set.
Yeah. It was awesome. Yeah. They're going to fabricate.
Just having to see. Just having to look it up. Yeah. Which I think is, is it because I was not negative because I think he was brilliant.
I wanted more of it. And you could have easily that set up with the gang being the gang just having a boat. Yeah. So yeah.
But yeah, those those first scenes with those the two guys were brilliant. Like I could easily watch a series of just those two writing and eating. Bickering. I kind of like you like you like Steve Coogan, Rob Wright and the trip.
Just those two just doing that. It's going to restaurants. You have a better version of it where they just making films and other versions of it. Just discussing them.
But it could be like I'd love it. You could have three seasons of just like like the first one is just a whole like let's not go crazy. Six episodes of writing of the godfather writing of the godfather part two and writing of the godfather part three. Ah, just those two guys.
Do you mean? Yeah. I'm going to say I'm in a room. What would be even better is do the first two seasons do one like say two thousand twenty three the next one two thousand twenty five and then wait, have a big old gap before you get to that first like like the gap between.
Yeah. Got you mean like, are we going to get that first season boom? We get it when they're both like age appropriate. Love it.
Have some of that. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah. The case of the camp foam cameos. You know, yeah. Oh, I mean, do you mean like that?
But yeah, that Bob Evans is office. Yes, please. Yeah. Absolutely.
We have those two and that's that was absolutely great. Those first two episodes are actually a really good set up for the show. You're in with that next lecture because he did set the soul for it. But he's like, we've used the word quite a lot for the 10 episodes, but the some episodes are just so breezy and fun and like a cake.
But it was just fun. Yeah. So you mentioned Matthew, good as Bob Evans, I think he very much steals the show a lot of the time. And I think like some of that is down to the fact that he gets to play possibly like the most gregarious and kind of out there character in this, like, it's really hard not to kind of do me like still a scene if you're playing that character, right?
Yeah. You can argue that, like, although it's a ready show, you could argue that there was there was much interest in Bob Evans as they were ready because he had the although he was the ready show, his arc of such wasn't a lot because he'd been not the Francois stuff. He just went, he did some good stuff, did well, the party ready with his. Bob Evans had proccostory lines and had proper emotional scenes and proccost stuff going on.
And so, yeah, I mean, OK, I would have quite act. I mean, so you say again, the only show Matthew, good as Bob Evans, unless our version of the kids say the picture as a series, like a watching plane, whatever forever, is just so good. Yeah, I would I would even go to a live event, which is like, build us like a night with Bob Evans, but it's just not good. Do you mean kind of just stalking the stage and telling stories?
Do you mean like, there was this one time I was with like Elizabeth Taylor, like that kind of thing, like, yeah, you're good telling like the kind of or just him doing readings of like, like, yeah, just kind of passages from the kids days in the picture. It's probably the next best thing to Bob Evans, actually reading the audiobook for that. But it's probably even better because he's probably not there's like kind of frazzled on cocaine as like Bob Evans was at that point when he came out. As long as if he's doing the reading, it's raising you losing his temper with someone just together loses it because Bob will lose it.
It is I think the whole it was lovely stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So any other kind of standout stuff on it, like, I kind of feel like I kind of try and like push for this because I feel like, yeah, we spent a lot of time being negative. Right.
Now, Juno Temple, brilliant Betty, that was great. Juno Temple, as we said, again, we are the fan club. She's just brilliant all the time and she's great in this. She's using the money.
But she's the red is redder, but keeps that on track and she's kind of our in as well. She's managed that. And the show managed with her, those experts apart from what we mentioned, but those exposition dumps just to let people in who don't know the Godfather as much as other people, she's our in. So you occasionally say something.
You'll go, Oh, yeah. It's that. And I think I particularly love that one in two about the exhibition dumps. Well, just kind of like because there is an element of kind of rewriting history to make women like more of a focal point in this story, which I think is commendable.
And like kind of because I imagine the making of the Godfather was very much like a kind of sausage fest, like to most parts. But like I particularly love that that scene in episode two between Betty McCart and Andrea Eastman played by Stephanie Koenig as they're driving around on the golf cart around the Paramount lot and kind of talking about their positions in like the filmmaking business and kind of how Andrew Eastman became like the head of casting and stuff like that. That was right. And not just like that conversation, but the way that that that that scene is put together with the kind of like set design and that stuff going on in the background, like Centurions walking past in the background, which were obviously coming from another film.
Yeah, it was great that they did. They were some some sort of real visual for that. That's one thing. One of the major positive is how fucking good the sets were like the reproductions of some of the big scenes where, yeah, they were spawn and it's that stuff that drew you into the godfather.
And I don't think that I don't think it's bad as well in regards to making it look like the seventies like kind of had that kind of nice to it. Yeah. Well, this is what yeah, that's why I said before, but it also felt like in those episodes like a seventies caper felt like it did feel like the ocean's films when they were running back and forth to places and remember like, it's a mad mad mad world, but you cast the car is the gang and it's like, oh, you've got to get here and they're off. Yeah.
And I think that stuff was really good because that if that told all we through was just it was the fun stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And it did work as one of those seventies felt or 60 seventies.
We only that kind of vibe and that stuff work really well for the bit of the most fun ones. Yeah. Yeah, I particularly love that. I don't know why I really like this sequence kind of like springs out to me is is that sequence of Bob Evans going to that party like kind of felt like kind of really throw away, but kind of really set the tone of who Bob Evans was as a character.
And like, I don't know. Yeah, I do think that I'm massive hats off the deck to Fletcher for kind of setting the tone for this series and kind of like, I don't know, there's almost like a thing of me like, I know probably scheduling conflicts, whatever, couldn't have done the whole 10 episodes, but I would have loved to have seen him kind of held the whole thing. And that's not that's not that obviously sounds like I'm like putting all the other direction down. So I think they did great.
Like I think Adam Arkum particularly did a great job of kind of what? Directs episodes three, four and nine and 10 like did a great job like and I think like and I know that TV a lot of the time as well, it's like a writer's medium. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, yeah, it does.
Yeah. Kind of like at times it does feel like they're their hand was pulled to the direction of keeping it ruddy centric. But like, yeah, and we did say it was like a karma. I think it was like it was the episode five maybe with.
And that's like again, like you said, there's nothing wrong with it, but it was very pedestrian episode of TV like a bottle episode. Like this is what's happening before we move on, which is fine for those setting up the parts of everything. Yeah. Let's kind of set up all the next phase and then boom, they're all falling to perhaps.
That was very much the kind of when, yeah, when those episodes that episode you're a bit hurt because those original episodes were so funny and they are the funniest episodes. Those first of all, because the pool's so safe on that and so like I'm breezy. And yeah, those we had less decks of pleasure because it's free does. But yeah, yeah, that stuff was great.
And like we said, the way they did another way they cleverly gave us the key scenes we were looking for didn't do me an act on them, which I think was pretty much a master's office seems because it could have broken this if they got that wrong. If you would, yeah, we could have gone. It could easily be the thing where I went. Oh, because if you don't buy in, if I, it's only me personally, but I didn't buy into the between, but then to see him doing a reenactment of a god, I'm saying it didn't work for me.
I would have checked out the other now. But that was a master. So having the true watch the scenes, because they did most of the times, which was great. And I love those bits because again, really fun watching their reactions to things.
Well, and it lets your kind of, it lets your imagination like kind of fill in the gaps. And it's kind of like kind of telling what I want, isn't it? Like, yeah, because we, we know the scene. Um, we love the scene.
We don't need to see what happened a bit. And you've got to imagine the one that they're filming is the tech. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
Yeah. Michael Michael at the dinner with Salatsomaklaski. It's like, we're not seeing take one. We're seeing the one way nails it.
And like, yes, I think that that is probably one of the standout moments for Anthony of Alito in it is like that kind of. And it's something that's quite difficult as an actor is that kind of in that moment, he does embody Al Pacino when he kind of has that intensity in that scene. And like Charlie Bluedon tries to approach him and like, he looks really threatening. It's like, that is a moment you go, okay.
And then I think that's where the show kind of drops the ball is like, I'm from Italy, so doesn't really get much to do after that point. He's kind of just tagging along for the system. Yeah, I think that was my issue with him. It wasn't him.
Maybe it was the right enough of him because we did say in that. And I did reverse. I did say I get it now because we we were supposed to believe it was nervous. And then in that moment, he was supposed to come and like, you know, that's the average, you know, but I think it wasn't done.
I don't think it was written as well as it could have been because he spent two, we had too much time up into in the head to the side. And I'm a little bit nervous and I don't know what to do. And you're like, fucking help me. I'm not a star, I'm an artist, but I'm a star.
Yeah. We would have had one scene of that to establish the fact that, yeah, he's not the average, you know, we know now, right. And then Bill got to go in and see what's happening here. But he didn't, he went from, oh, I'm so sad.
So always an opportunity like, I didn't buy you enough then. Well, I think whatever we say on the matter, the only thing that really counts is the fact that Al Pacino has watched the show and he enjoys Anthony Palito as him. So what do we know? It's a bit, you know, I go, that's what I mean.
I don't think he was bad. I think that's all. I just think maybe it wasn't written as well as it could have been. So, yeah, but that's what positive.
Like, I will never not find the whole brand of stuff in the Ambrigant. Because I love the fact that they just use them and it is genius. They use them as like even on the set. It was like some mythical creature that lived on the set, who just appeared occasionally, like not for all just glided.
I came up with some modern. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely brilliant.
And that's exactly what that's another scene. It was great. Because again, it was funny and probably, you know, but the setup of Brando was fucking brilliant. It was one of my favorites.
It was when we first met him. It was great. Yeah. It just the way of setting up him in the shadows almost.
Yeah, I think that's great. And I think Justin Chambers does a really good, really good job of Brando. Like it's kind of that's got to be a real tough task for any of the people. You've got to play like what many people consider one of the best to ever do it.
Yeah. And what I liked about it was he played exactly. And I'm sure it would. I'm sure it was on purpose.
I'm sure it was he played exactly like I wanted Marlon Brando to be. He didn't even there was no fucking about it. Wasn't like, what I'm going to do is making more shoot. No, he was the brand.
Oh, I wanted him to be in the show. I mean, he just was fucking weird and out there and yeah. I think you've only dropped Brando. I think using him sparing me in the show was a kind of a good move.
I mean, where is I I wish I'd seen more of like the other actors, but I think that's kind of the pepperings of Brando we got kind of added to that like elusive nature of who Marlon Brando was, especially at that time, like, you know, kind of float in and kind of yeah, he wasn't there for like he wouldn't. And you don't imagine he would have been knocking about with them for a lot of the time. I mean, like, I didn't care about that. He's like back to being in a row.
But I'm like, yeah, but I love the fact that once he was on set, you know, you never reached apart from the closing part. You know, he saw him offset. He would just, yeah, let's say, float in and say something. And yeah, yeah, the use of brandos.
Really. And there's a bit profile shot and handle and it's pretty as much he looks like. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Justin Chambers, obviously. Since he was in. Yeah, you missus is more more more of those in more for. Great.
And that means that we're still watching great. But I'm not but so watching great is not me because it turns out I think there's 400 series. It's yeah, it's been going on a while. I don't even know if he said it as soon as so.
But yeah, he was great. Loved it was brando. Perfect. Well, shall we talk about our top five characters and how do we want to do this?
So we want to go from your to hash out who is number five and work our way down to number one or. Kind of. Yeah. OK, so you've ranked them in all of them.
I haven't written down anything. This is going to be discussion live on air for the listeners to hear us kind of work this out. So let's kind of talk about who's in the running and then should we do that? So who do you feel?
Let's pick fire. Yeah, you pick five. OK. And then we'll kind of I'll come back with anyone we've missed.
OK, my five characters and going on the like it seems more and I enjoyed them. So I'm going to go Betty Francis. If we don't know what is Betty Francis, Mario Charlie. Bob.
OK. Yeah. OK, yeah. So what do we feel about Joe Colombo?
Are we happy with all the Joe Colombo we got in this show? Yeah, it was a it was a meth joke number for me. And not to spoil. Oh, yeah.
Obviously people might have Google Joe Colombo when he got shot. He never recovered from that coma. So if we got if we if we went further with Joe Colombo, yeah, I don't think I don't think I think Giovanni Robisi has Joe Colombo is fun in this show. Like, yeah, it was great.
Yeah, it was great. We've had a laugh with this character, but he was great. Yeah, I think I think you've picked a decent one. What about what about what about Barry Lapidus?
Like as not as like who you don't see more of but in the fact of like. Colin Hanks's performance, even though I don't know. I don't know. I'm saying this.
I'm not sure if he reaches top five just because his character very much at times felt like a I don't like a device for the show. But we need an antagonist and we need somebody to help push. I think that was a yeah, that was he was another one of suffered off suffered with being there to. We'll just walk with an idea and then we'll then in one episode going shit, we need to do something.
Let's give them and then also the University change character in a scene. I can't wait. It wasn't much of a. It wasn't much of an arc for him.
He just went no bed, no bed, no bed. Oh, actually, you're right. That was it. There was no gradual story with it.
So it was great. He was he gave good dickhead. I don't think always, you know, and sees is not not not knocking into the top five. Is it?
No, no, no, he's again, he was pretty two dimensional when he was just. Yeah, Jacob. I'm a priest. He's great.
He did. We did. But he was he was played. He did not much.
That was a stereotypical. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.