You're listening to the Wisps wasatch in wasatch investigative studies wasatch investigative studies a paranormal science show Which apparently is got another acronym for a supernatural hour of what why you doing this to me man? Hey, welcome to the wish show like we talked about in our last show This is gonna be a special edition. I've actually got some guess with us here And I know we talked about it in our last episode is it special because we're finally all here at the same time That might be too because this is like with first time in a long time We're not missing brandy or lurch or the ante's always there Tim was gonna make it tonight, but Tim I stabbed a folk. Yeah, that's someone told him.
I'm not working. Tim screwed a bunch of people over what happened I did actually afterwards tomorrow. So yeah, Tim I'm a Tim's like a union guy and he like did the whole union thing and twisted some arms I like my union muscles. So let's introduce everybody real quick.
I'm your host castle. I'm all right. We got D.N And we're actually sharing a mic so I can talk much that I'll keep her from interrupting us when we go way off track We've got lurch hey as always Tim the slob whisper what's happening? We've got peaches and we have got spinairey What do up and Changa?
It's about damn time And you know it's killing me I was really hoping for Kenny tonight because I listened to radio running a couple episodes ago Right and he was talking about being pants at the Scott Master's house at a sleepover And I got to know you guys from through Ben Hanson has been handsome and I were both a child sex crimes That's right. That's right. So I was actually planning on bringing the anatomically correct doll tonight Where are the baby did the Scott Master touch right and if you're signing up for grinder He's a man with issues and so we should have peaches sit down for a little bit and really climb into that spook alley of a skull That might not be a bad idea. Yeah, what you know, no square what happens What's happening there?
That is my no no square what happens is a boy Scott stays as a boy Scott This is a little uncomfortable. We're talking about Scott Masters sleepovers and a tie fleshy knots That's what we're gonna tie fleshy knots You know that story actually kind of reminds me and Dan can back me up on this But when I was a we young lad of 17 I I worked in the fast food industry and had this kind of creepy manager who worked there Wait, they have fast food back then? Yes, it was a new pioneer Basically gave you a rock to suck on But we had this manager here I remember when they walked in and he'd gotten like his flu shot or something and he kind of did this weird like one Hipped kind of pirouette thing and kind of was feeling like his bum cheeking goes I got a shot right in my bum and it hurts so good And he was just as creepy as it sounds and it hurts so good Yes, well, he was rubbing it and kind of looking at me and I thought this guy's kind of a weirdo Yeah, anyway, he got a fired like a month or two later, but I'll be damned if it wasn't oh six months ago I was scrolling through the KSL and I'll be damned if someone had me in the scout master That's easy and he was not present the fact. I'm just gonna say his first name Wade They always find the creepiest guy in the ward, you know Was that the dude that has the the jeans short shorts with the roller skates in his photo?
He would have made a hell of a Tobias Boon game without even trying hard Doesn't sub us Anyway tonight we are gonna talk about we're kind of we're still talking paranormal, but we're gonna talk about ghost hunts Now I know we've talked a little bit about we've kind of held off on ghost hunts this year Just there's been 2016's been a shit show. There's really no other way to it has been for everyone in this room From from silent dawn over there. Oh whoever I turn house by way. Yeah, that's why I'm pointing him out.
I'm standing here Way to go show host. He doesn't get a mic today. He's in the corner by himself silent Don's back there hanging out turn back around you're supposed to face the corner silent on from silent dawn to Spunari to you To Tim. I mean we've all we've all been through the meat grinder this year for sure.
Yeah, yeah I got a little reminder on the way up actually Dianne silent down on my left a big family Christmas party Our mother is going to eat our eyeball jelly on toast pretty sure about that. Yeah, she's not happy that we're recording tonight But we told her we had to leave the family party early because we had plans but as I was driving up now I'm in radiation every day Monday through Friday. Oh, so the cancer. Yeah, that'll kind of ruin a 2016 right little stage three possibly stage four cancer never heard anybody Oh my gosh only kill them only kill them actually I did have a buddy password from cancer stage four lung cancer a few months ago Oh, really and the shit show continues yeah, right?
But anyway, one of the side effects from this is that you get some intestinal distress kind of like the Kenny nervous Boops if you would yeah sure I think that's the Taco Bell you're eating now Well, I had ham but I was driving up at that hall so I had to I had to hurry and stop because I wasn't sure if I was gonna have an Emergence here not and why am I sharing this? Actually, this is good for people to hear because it lets everybody know the thousands and thousands and a millions of people that listen to these shows here On pot bash just how much commitment and love and care and hard work goes into these shows yes I was halfway here and I thought oh my gosh. I had to stop and go stop at the supermarket Castle almost he almost pooped his pants. Were you wearing your depends a little Hershey kiss a little one of your pens?
Anyway, but we made it we're feeling good So we've had we did kind of a hiatus on ghost hunts this year because of the 2016 being such a and I know I've used a sword I'm gonna keep using it shit show because that's really good. It was too much It was too much for all this for you for Jess for me for Ben We've all been yeah Kenny Even Ben you know I had to talk with Ben Hanson just a few days ago and he was just like uncle I mean it was I'm surprised I didn't hear gunfire going off in the background. He sounded so stressed so well It's been it's been rough it cracks me because I'm looking at memes on Facebook right now and it seems everybody's got a Hang in the middle finger to 2016. I think it's been crappy for everybody in fact I think Spinariah you had one earlier that I saw that said a 2016's gonna be like the best year ever and the narrator little did you know 2016 Really hope by June 2017 we're not going 2016 was amazing here Well, that's just it so you can always get worse and and we went back to our radio Ronan shows the end of 2015 we were like don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out 2015 I would in a second 2015 was awesome.
So I'm hoping we're not saying that about 2016 What's an iteration There go in there go in there go politics Wow alright Sean Hannity I look back No, anyway, but 2017 while we're here with chunk We've been talking about ghost hunts we're gonna plan some ghost hunts Hopefully if all goes according to plan here in the next couple of months I know we had an episode we talked about dark investigations a couple episodes ago And I know that's one of the reasons that we kind of dial it back a little bit. I thought we had to Just because if you take you know, it gets really we could do an entire show about it But if you take a look at what's happened to the teams There's no way that there couldn't be some sort of an influence at work For the people that are suffering and the people that have gone through whether gone through it's been a very difficult year year and a half Absolutely, I guess oh, I was gonna say it's funny because since I have stopped with the ghost hunts things have started to get better So well say and it's interesting because our team and you guys already know this But we kind of specialize or that we tend to get some of the darker cases in the valley running into the burning building Yeah, and it's funny cuz Brandy peaches she teases us all the time because that's what we do We you know the building's on fire and we're running into the same women and children as kind of what we do And we've all felt the effects of dealing with that and we talked about it Like I said a couple of those ago We had somebody contact us not know if you guys are where this but they wanted to know where they could go find evil spirits to deal with For free. Yeah, we're going to go for free where we can find dark spirits. What?
Yeah, you know, you know, you know, 21 and we're like, you know Probably not the best idea. He's like, oh, it's okay. I've been doing this since I'm nine I know what I'm doing, you know, you and I go way back. Castle.
We go way way back and you know I'm not gonna name the agencies, but for years I was the guy that Law enforcement agencies would call when weird things would happen and they didn't know really where to go and I would share pictures with you I would tell you about some of these places that I was going doing private residential ghost hunts and and Possible demonic oppression possession that kind of stuff and it got to the point where I was like look I'm gonna sit around and watch frozen 24 seven for about six years Just trying just to cleanse my palate from all the horrible crap that we've seen well and in reality Like I said, this is the kind of case we do we do roughly I think if I looked at our numbers We're on part of about 80 85 cases this year And it's just not right man. You gotta back that off seriously I was gonna say and as I look at that There was a time this year hasn't been too bad But there's a few times last year when I had to seriously take some steps back and go Do I really want to be doing this? I we were we were on a string of just having a bunch of demonic cases really awful demonic terrible terrible stuff And it's like you don't go out actively looking for stuff like that You know just to have that kids say I want to find it You know you don't you don't challenge it you it'll find you sure now That's you know that was what I was gonna say is what happens when a dog catches its tail If you go looking for trouble you in this area if you want to go look in trouble I guarantee you you'll find it will find you'll find you and you'll be in over your head way too fast in fact And if this gives listening you're not gonna like to hear this But I found an interesting piece of information about this individual Yeah, but I found is a profile picture on Facebook yeah, and you had brandy look at it for those who don't know brandy And I know we've talked about the show which you can actually see spirits and photos and video and what did you see in that photo? That's an attachment.
Oh that doesn't he yeah, he has an attachment. So what kind of attachment is it negative of course? That's three yes. Yeah, I hope he's listening.
Hey kid. Don't be a jackoff Spirits to investigate you got one so just remember that it's there buddy You want to go find some go find Jesus bird Get rid of we do what was interesting is a picture I showed her was actually he was standing inside of a church Wow, and it was there with them in the church. Yeah, that's possession right there. Yeah, so it always I always find an instrument People are looking for trouble You know and it's funny cuz the Amityville spoons I actually have possession of those Amityville spoons I don't recommend by the way But it did not come into my home until I had brandy do look look over and I store it in a very special way to make sure that there's No possibility of any kind of back it's in your subware drawer you each are you?
Well, I'm happy to tell you that I had several artifacts that came from from Ed and Lorraine Warren Some of which were the Amityville spoons and the sheets that the amity they're mounted on a shadow right in a shadow box The sheets that the spoons rest on are the death sheets from inside of the end So I don't know which is worse the spoons themselves or the sheets And the reason that there's silverware is that if you go back and you study the Amityville case a lot of the Horrible stuff was was in the kitchen and the silverware was known to fly around that random And so and it was interesting when I had brandy look at that because I have one of the shadow boxes with the best sheets in the spoons Yes, he hands me this and just goes here look at this and I'm all I fear if there's any like if Satan was attached to it she would have jumped back 10 feet So oh you can feel it can't you just just radiating now? She goes you know she goes there's no spirits specifically attached to it There's a lot of negative energy yeah going on with that spoon How would you cleanse something like that then what would you do to get rid of it so that it's more like a Like a priesthood thing you don't have to have it less than so just like putting in salt water or something What I've done is I I stored in an ammo can surrounded by salt basil and a piece of selenite All those things are known to kind of ward off evil if you will and that's well the thing that I've been told about these particular items too is that Well, eight don't touch them do not open the boxes. Don't touch them That's that's rule number one don't touch them So in order to do anything to them you would have to take them out of the box Which I was specifically told don't you dare bad idea and then secondly because you can't really tag a specific entity to them It's just overwhelmingly bad energy that is not really known and that's one of the things that I think we're gonna talk about tonight Which is what is an expert what is not an expert and how can one person tell you to do one thing and actually be an authority on it? Especially in this realm now the reason I say this is because I Who knows how to cure this thing who knows how to take care of these things?
That's why you know I had several artifacts a tapestry from that was Painted by a woman that was rumored to be possessed in an insane asylum I've seen the tapestry. Yeah, the Ami devil spoons and a variety of other things this house I've removed them all from this house because because of all the bad energy that was those happening here and And still somewhat continues to this day and essentially because a lot of times when we've gone into some of these darker homes We have found objects that are kind of the linch pan or the focal point if you will of the The tallest man for lack of a better and in some of these cases where we go back to earth three times once we figure out What that talisman is or that focal point once you deal with that you remove it that seems to fix the problem in a lot of these cases Well, so that you know and this is no joke. I'm deeply deeply concerned about those spoons and and or the sheets I can't really tell what's what so please please be careful with those Oh, absolutely and I that's the only thing I have that has anything else we removed I have disposed of Properly and the only reason I have that is I use it for presentations to show people Yeah, it sounds like you keep it off site and protected. You know I kept it in my office.
Yeah, it's a very bad idea Yeah, it's just throwing it properly was kind of a big thing before I even I never came into the house after I had brandy Give it a pretty thorough examination Castle just wants to be the next John Zephys and sturdy I think it's a very bad idea. I think it is I think it is too actually I think it's a terrible idea now But we've actually we've we've dealt with an Allen trampix and a thing to dealt with Yeah, pretty much every personal piece of property that cleave ovens own There's a rock from Twilla. Oh, yes the twill of rock. I would actually interfere with some of our public goes I hated that thing which I made you throw in a lake if you recall.
Yeah, then there was the There was a petrified wood at that lady's house. Yeah, that would the lady brought the doll and then like the care bear on the same house, that's right. There's actually is interesting because we walked into this at child's room and I walked in and immediately was drawn to this. I mean it was a modern-day care bear toy There was nothing spooky about it.
There was nothing I mean but just immediately walked in like that thing is trouble Zoned right in on it and I'll be darned if we didn't figure out within about 30 minutes That was one of the focal points in that particular home. Yeah, it doesn't have to be old It doesn't have to be menacing. It can be a brand new toy. It's weird how that happens But anyway, we can't what sideways on to dark stuff, but let's talk a bit about public investigations Now chunk and I we kind of discuss this a little bit We decided to be kind of a good topic for tonight show and I realized we're probably halfway into tonight show We haven't even got for primary topic tonight.
Oh, sorry. Yeah How's that different from any other show that we've ever done right welcome to my world where I just are talking about We just kind of go with it. I know We plan agendas and then we don't even talk about no I plan agendas like slender men and the show crashes and burns and I just about crash On the rocks on the show and everything just goes to shit Those ladies are dirty dirty minded and fellas discussed and I love it I like the notes. It was like the wife on the rocks ladies and Tim make this a artist They are not ladies.
I got you have tin foil credit But one of the things that chung and I have talked about Part of our concern when we talked about doing public comes again is we had a concern with the dark things We're going on but the attendance at some of the investigations had kind of dropped off a little bit I think we figured that out and we've got that resolved But one of the issues that we talked about was kind of a watering down of the brand And I think we want to talk about that just a little bit It's it's a bit of a problem I get I'm really concerned because when we first started doing these Ben Hanson and I and this is gonna sound like I'm Some sort of old codger and I listen I understand how this sounds and it's not meant to sound this way But but Ben and I were the first in Utah with Brendan and Barbara We were the first to do these kind of ghost hunt events They started as lectures actually because we didn't dare take anybody out on the actual investigations We were too nervous about what was gonna happen to him But we eventually relented because of the pressure from the lectures to do these at the time we called them paragons is what we called them and so Ben and I started a company called Western Paragon and Did a weekend event where people could come and take part and learn equipment and there would be the first half of the event Would be classes and then we would actually go out on an all night investigation and it was a really big huge event And we would have that was the nexus for solid comic on Again and I actually came in one of those paracon events that you guys had well you did okay Yeah, so way back in the day and they were so popular that People then took this they saw in a social media They always say that imitation is the highest form of flattery right well that is very true But the problem that that I think occurred from this is you have people that are possibly not very responsible people that may not quite understand the dangers that entail Real legitimate paranormal investigating perhaps enjoy a little bit of inviting before the actual event. Yeah, that's exactly right Yeah, there's alcohol involved I went on a investigation with another team and I'm not gonna say who it was but the lead investigator was drinking a beer the entire night Nothing against the team loved the team they're great guys But I was the only thing that kind of had me on edge was that the main investigator from their team was drinking a bud And really anyone who's ever investigated with me or been to an event that I've been a part of even events I've not been a part of I'm not gonna lie. I don't have a problem talking But I'll get in there and I'll make sure that everybody understands safety rules before we go home because that scares me to death because I know What is out there? I've dealt with what is out there?
I'm lowering your guard and and and and altering your state exactly in sanely dangerous a variety of different levels And people you know walking in without knowing how to keep stuff from flying them home or not knowing that they shouldn't be inviting things home Well, we've always had a standing policy that if we even smell alcohol on you you're out and you're never coming back It's just it we are extremely strict about this Simply because we don't want people getting hurt at like I said on a paranormal level or on a physical level And if if if alcohol is required for you to take part in something like this You have no business doing it to begin with what was wasn't there? Like some individual you said that said so that about I can't tell if I'm really hearing these audio Evps or if it's the LSD it was a guy that contacted us. Yeah, oh that he Thought he was possessed, but he wasn't sure if it was possession or if it was the LSD he was on yeah That was literally his thing is actually things. I'm hearing things.
I can't figure out if I've had demons in my house or if it's the LSD dude stop doing drugs Yeah, and doing my due diligence because I don't want to turn anybody down if they're actually legitimately having problems I did have him for me some pictures I brandy look at brandy so there's nothing in any of those photos so I said dude It's the LSD Please don't contact me anymore because those those type of people when you tell them there's no problem They'll contact you again and again and again unless you just kind of put it down say it's the LSD dude Well one of the things that I think is really really important for people to know is that when they do these investigations They're always wanting to go there seems to be a fundamental shift in attitude that everybody wants the really dark and menacing and And horrible borderline demonic if not demonic type of hauntings that they want to deal with and what I don't think people understand is those types of Hauntings are unbelievably rare and we have found that if we sell tickets to a place where we know there's nothing there of That nature no one goes well I go listen to an old lady singing ghostly old lady singing pioneer songs they want stuff flying around again scratched and Hollywood I think people have seen emity bill horror in the conjuring and that's what they want to see when they go to ghost hunt like I said Those type of hauntings are incredibly rare now demonic hauntings are actually incredibly common But really unless you know what you're looking for it's hard to differentiate and non-demonic haunting for a demonic haunting It's mostly years of education. Uh-huh and it's a very long time 90% of the time too I think I'm just sitting in the dark with the digital recorder asking questions And I don't hear anything tell you to listen to it I'll play back There's a difference between having a demonic entity in your home and actually being possessed by it totally two different things Right and that's the thing that people don't get is that you can bring it home with you And it's gonna you know buggy up a bit and then there's a difference in inviting into your body and well in a lot of the homes We call to that have a demonic presence in their home. They're not having furniture fly around They're not spitting piece soup. They're not levitating off the bed just basically to put it short their life is going all kinds of 2016 I mean their life is just falling apart.
That's how it works. Right, but it's not anything like it's not stuff Let her talk anyway, but it's mostly it's just your life goes to crap It's not what you see on Hollywood when it gets to that point you're in a whole heap of trouble Well, listen, this is you know, you mentioned the conjuring you mentioned Hollywood. I know the parent family very well Andrew Perron is a close friend. I know her quite well.
We had hers against on the radio show the Amity of old family I don't know them well But I have spoken with them and have researched them and interviewed them many many times These are not families that you want to be these are not people you want to be what these people have gone through has been permanent and it's been life-altering and it's something of which they will never recover and I wish I could explain to people look you do not want to seek this stuff out You don't want to you don't want to search this You don't want to buy tickets and have chunga show you how to go out or castle or Ben Hanson or peaches or anybody show You how to find this kind of stuff because you will not recover from it when you do It's been years and I'm still trying to deal with this well And looks at it because most people can't see them but I've seen them and they're demonic entity isn't something you want to see It's not something you forget and it's very chilling. It's to your bones You've talked about your experience here. I don't know if it was this house or it was this house But I know you guys had experiences here and so I had troubles when he was younger. I did yeah, excuse me.
It was horrible Sorry guys, but I know Horrible and it's the best way to describe it It's like peeling away an onion It's just one little piece at a time and it just kind of breaks you down over time And it's not like this big crazy thing where you're fine And then all hell is breaking was the next second it takes its time which is the hardest thing for people kind of understand So well and what's funny is like searching out this stuff going back to it We've tried very hard on our public counts to keep people safe even on some of our Four Douglass's won't come to mind in particular We had a couple of people who are guests who had issues there I know that I personally gave probably half a dozen blessings over two or three investigations before Douglass just there's one Night particular Josh and that was a particularly Josh. We love you Josh But it's not it's not good stuff. It's not fun. So I was I was attacked.
I lost consciousness didn't know it had to be carried out I was there I'm not a small man. I'm sure that was not easy. I actually had help I can't remember who's there was a couple of us Josh was there. Yeah, Jeff was there lurch excuse me Sorry, sorry lurch.
It's okay. Spunari was there But what we didn't understand is because I was leading the investigation you guys know is that I had lost consciousness But there are also four other people in the room at the same time that lost consciousness Yeah, which we were unaware of it And later one of them sat was just out on a table down there for about an hour with nobody even aware of it and this is the kind of thing that happens if And this is us being careful. Well, Josh wasn't being careful But I think that first night we didn't quite know what we were dealing with yet. Well, that's what I think supple's quite investigations We've taken a lot greater I think we got lax I think we've taken a lot greater precautions, especially that particular venue since that night You know, I will go hunt there again.
However, you know the last time I was there lurch and I were leading the investigation in the room That happened in and we we went about it. He and I completely differently And you know, I'm sure people understand this but from listening to the wish show here But lurch is one hell of a competent ghost hunter. Oh, yeah And he's somebody that you can trust I worry about the people that are hosting public ghost hunts that have absolutely now I need to qualify this and say there is no such thing as an expert anybody that's telling you they're an expert is Completely full of shit like totally full of shit and I would absolutely agree with that before on our own show that there are no experts There's people who know more than other people but nobody really knows until they've taken that final step into that point It's kind of too late. Yeah, you know, I've been doing this 25 years at the highest levels possible with people that are That are titled by the Catholic Church as a demonologist I've done this at the highest possible levels and even they will tell you look you can only go so far before you just say I don't know because we don't and that's what worries me about a lot of these people that are hosting private ghost hunts There's a business problem with it.
There's a business model problem with it But there's also a much more serious problem, which is akin to a kid with a handgun You don't know how it's gonna go But you're pretty sure somebody's gonna be hurting at the end of the day And that's what I worry about with with a lot of these people that are conducting conducting public ghost hunts And just and they're just very very lax with them and very willy-nilly with them and it makes me terrified to be honest There was one time in fact for Douglas. I think we're back in the Navy room. You were conducting a SB 7 A spirit box and we kept getting the word I'm a demon over and over and over about 30 40 times exactly and I have them I'm videos. Yeah, I have a pocket knife in my back pocket at one point I bent over and the pocket knife was literally pulled from my pocket and flew back about 5 feet behind me Peaches was right there.
I turned to her and I was like was that what I thought it was and she's like yeah, uh-huh And for the rest of the night I had something negative following me which I never really had before and yeah I mean, I was trying to put on a happy face like uh-huh this can't bother me But it was seriously affecting me and I've never had anything like that happen to me before but it was freaking my crap out And what do you do if you go on a ghost hunt with people that claim that they are experts and you're in over your head? I don't know how to handle like that There's nobody here that claims to be an expert But you know that I have a very legitimate and credible worry about the people that we take on these ghost hunts Well, and it's interesting because Tim and I and and Peaches We periodically for kicks and giggles will go on some of these public ghost hunts done by other groups And some of them and I'm not gonna name groups, but some of them have been Passable and competent and there's some that have scared me been laughable Yeah, I do enjoy the ones where you know I'm there to take it holder and they realize who I am and that I know what I'm doing for the most part and and then people Fluct you for the name well even the investigators from the groups they like have me try to lead their tours for them and I'm just like I honestly like it kind of is kind of sucks because I'm there to take a holder at the same time like being that we do what we do I want to make sure everybody's safe too. I don't want anyone going home with anything I don't want to get hurt That's why we go to the residential investigations we do like people say we seek out the dark stuff No, it finds us and I don't know why but when someone calls us and says they're having trouble sleeping and they're afraid of being in their own home It's like how do you turn some away like that like well? I think we identify better than other groups doing fact.
I'll pull well So we've talked about before and we love Paul dearly facty listen to the show hey Paul But he said you know he goes I think is better identifying it and to be honest with I think we are because we know we're looking for We've dealt with it so many times that you start to tell signs here And she helps I think Randy's tremendously helpful that a little bit in all honesty without her help I don't know if we'd be as good at identifying it as we are And it's scary because I don't remember the episodes that I've had because you guys have well seen them But I've had you say something and it's scary knowing that that can happen. We haven't had no recollection of what happened Haven't had any Latin texts messages from you They stopped in the last time I found her out in the sprinklers. Yeah, that was the first time we had other instances Right now, that's what it's what it's like. We had the instance Chungo where she tried to choke me out in the basement I remember that yeah, I remember I wasn't there because I don't go there, but I do remember you you told me And then we had salt there were took four grown men to hold her down You see us in the future That's why she's screaming for us in the future of us in the future of us in the future of us in the future of us in the future of us in the future of us And that's when I told her my lap and she just kind of bent forward and dug not not one not two But three fingers on each leg and just kind of started scratching my legs from the caps I don't I'd teach you is like 80 pounds of seriously Yeah, she's tiny It happens to me because I try to intervene because they try to protect everyone in the group You can't just stop it And I just feel that you need to focus you need to protect you and I'll take care of everybody else But you know, it's interesting to me is that you know We're talking about all these sensational things that are happening by another really serious shit They're terrifying first of all and it's not something that it's a real double standard here There's a real duality to it because it sounds cool when you're listening to it, but it isn't cool at all It's it's something that changes you that you don't want it makes for hell of a story That's not fun to live it.
Yeah, it's kind of like combat in a way You know people can come back and tell their worst stories and it's great But I think given the option they would never want to be able to tell Saving forever Ryan's great movie, but I wouldn't want to actually have to have been there There you go. That's exactly right But the other concern I have is that people are taking people to venues that in my opinion in a lot of these as I Scour the internet look around venues that are haunted at all and these are these are basically You know shister Snake oil cells when they're taking people to venues that aren't haunted in the least well not to kind of back up just a hair I'm talking about some of the public investigations that Tim and I've been to we kind of scout the locations first before we do like if we Really do public investigations as the Wisps, but if we do do a location I said do do do If we do that though, we usually scout the location first We'll have at least two or three of us on the lead team go and check the location out before we bring else out there Well, and you know from from you know hunting with us all you guys know the amount of research and the amount of scouting and the amount of pre Pollent pod bash or pod got one event without kind of gone to venue first and really why I I'm investigating every everything on my own or with you or with Jess or Spunari But oftentimes completely by myself. I'll go and investigate the location myself beforehand and do all of the historical research before we ever sell a single ticket to it Because we don't want to have that problem. Well, there's this thing about as haunted as a paperclip, right now On the other hand though, we have found that more places than not actually are haunted.
It's just getting in there and figuring out What is there? Yeah? Yeah? In fact, it's funny because people I think it's my house I'm probably right because a lot of homes have got something in them It's more uncommon to find something that doesn't have a home But Tim and I did a public investigation Tim's gonna probably remember this where we ended up half well not even halfway probably 15 minutes into investigation We got stuck.
Well, they're very last year to sign 49 That would be a sign 49 where we ended up training the venue staff through our investigation We had actually both paid tickets prices for we ended up doing the training at the venue But yeah, so there's a lot of groups out there who know what they're doing There's a lot of groups out there who are just like man That's some quick cash if I can you know get 20 30 people to show up to a venue and I guess some of them will know what to do when they get here And so well, there's one this has been a few years ago If you're in it for the money though, you're in it for the wrong reason right and really I mean in all honesty even the pod bash investigation No one's getting rich off of those I mean chunk of said it before the money that is gained from those pays for venue fees and it pays to get the lights on and keep the internet site up We use it basically to fund pod bash yeah and to pay for the venues itself And that's yet another problem because a lot of these these people that have venues They may be a super or a real estate agent or whatever and they have access to a location that's haunted Well, they're all starting to get wise to the fact because there are so many Just crazy frankly fraudulent public ghost hunt groups that are running around paying top dollar I mean paying ridiculous fees to gain access to locations So so now it's it's insanely expensive to gain access to a building and we've experienced that as a team I know we've had venues that we've gone to before fact early on when we first started up We did a little bit fundraising by doing you know we did like when public goes down to here Uh-huh and I'm gonna name so I won't talk about the family tree, but they Their price used to be $20 and that was it to investigate and for dinner for an investigator So you could charge 30 bucks or 40 bucks for ticket and you know the family tree would get something or a different venue would get something You would be able to raise funds for whatever 10 15 or 20 bucks Then you get to cut we have a little bit of money to fund the things we do We do you know some festivals and some things through the year and that helps pay for table space But like you said a lot of these venues have said oh hey wait a minute People will pay this for a ghost hunt and they just take the middleman right out of it And they just jack their prices up to what about the top end of what a reasonable ticket price is and at that point You know for pod bash or wisps or really anybody to come in and try and do that It's not feasible anymore because if we were to go to a venue that charged 40 bucks ahead For people and we brought in 30 people to investigate at 40 bucks ahead There's no way if we kick the ticket price up another 10 or 20 bucks that people are gonna come to that well What's even worse is that and I don't want to get all Donald Trump on everybody But it's a shitty businessman. I mean they're just terrible if you think that you have a gigantic You know, I've never really talked about the amount of downloads and listens that pod bash has had but it exceeds 12 million in Two years so that's a massive It's bigger than any radio station in this town and that is a massive megaphone if you wanted to get your venue out to people If you wanted to advertise your business It would it would be in your best interest to let an operation that's very credible like wisps or like radio Ronan and pod bash functioning with wisps into your location promote it serve your interests and and allow us access to the building But a lot of these guys just don't get that they're like no You're gonna be paying you know full freight you're gonna be doing all this stuff Oh, and you're going to be giving us promotion and you're gonna be doing this and you're gonna because they think that they just they hold all the cards And what we end up doing is going somewhere else, right? It's unfortunate because there's a lot of great venues out there that are run by total shitheads So and the funny thing is and I think you hit the nail on head is if some of these venues are willing to take a modest cut and Leave some room for groups to creditable groups. Well arguably it's not even a cotta.
It's just money that's being expended in marketing Right. I was gonna say all the work is put out by those who are Organizing a promoting the event but like you said they seem to think they hold all the cards How else are they gonna pay for the strippers? I love to know where that venue is going because you know somebody's just taking it out the window or something seriously You know we've run across venues that you know have a decent price and they're really great locations I'm investigating but they want to give you the building on like a Tuesday night from 7 to 10 Yeah, or four o'clock to a to eight o'clock There's a couple of there's a couple and the location is insanely expensive and you know How are people gonna buy tickets to something when they can't even get home from work and then get up to the venue? And so it's just it's it's turning to a whole racket and that's why you haven't seen us From a business standpoint doing this, but then there's also all of the other paranormal stuff, which is frankly way worse So yeah, and so that's been kind of a perfect storm if you will why we've not done Investigations is and there are venues out there and we are still looking for venues and we'll go back some of our old venues And you'll see some new venues so I don't want to depress anybody or think that we're saying we're not gonna do it anymore Oh, we're actually getting ready to start them again Yes, just understand that there's a lot of work that goes into these and it's harder and harder every year A lot of business and it's business that that no nobody in this room actually likes doing it's a necessary evil So that we can go out and bring you an experience and hopefully a very credible Scientific and the theologian Response to to what you're seeking you know what I mean something that's and people want to see stuff too They want to show up to a venue they want to have stuff happen They don't want to sit around the dark and not experience something and I think a lot of people are misconceived that they think that they're gonna Go to a venue and stuff's gonna start flying off the shelves and it's sometimes it does but it's sometimes it can but it's not very Every time yeah, I have like that lady who had the black aura over at the I'm not gonna pay for that.
Do I have a stupid written on my foot or what and she likes to I'm sorry. That's fine. I don't forget her about that or not I'm here. She was there, but I don't know if you heard about the conversation with I had with Brandi after though But we had a guest of Fort Douglas and she was very she's what I was labeled a closed-minded skeptic very belligerent She made a big scene at the very end.
So she made a huge stinking So I kind of lingered a brand yesterday. I see what's her aura color Running off its black and friend knows I think about or as well That's a really rare aura and it's a really awful aura, but it was very consistent with her behavior They have a kind of funny. I think she just had a lot of like serious personal issues and she was rubbing it off on everyone else Well in the 20 plus years that I've been doing this and in the in the 12 or so that I've been doing public events I've only ever had one person do that and that was her well most people I think who come to these for the most part have some open-mindedness I don't know if I should make a word or not Some kind of some open well look, you know This is this is what we encourage people to do and I'm sure you guys do this too I love skeptics because when when you can show somebody that is skeptical that any of this exists and you're able to give them definitive proof that No, this is real that changes them It's like somebody opening up the shutters to a blind and they're looking out the window to a completely different world And it's irrefutable. I love that I encourage skeptics to come and try and do this but if you're gonna be skeptical You also have to be willing to accept just as easily just as easily as you don't accept Right, and you know and I've even noticed myself when I first started doing this I had a set idea of what I thought ghosts were and and how everything worked and when we first even started our website So are you doing you said still somebody give him some riddle But I sat down and I wrote down what I thought my theories were it's like you know here's some theories and the more I've ghost hunted and the more I've gone on these investigations the more I thought oh my word my initial Theories that I had come up with on my own are totally well That's been my experience to the more questions you have answered the more you don't know It seems like the more you open the more often you get to open a door 20 more doors open every time you do that if you're new to Investigating take everything you think you know and throw it out the door because you don't know she that's exactly right Yeah, that's probably about the bluntest way and the best way to put it is that whatever your notions are Oh, it's kind of funny because there's a little start I've been working on trying to figure out a way to make it easy to look at and make sense But there's really two different kinds of people well technically two different types of tutors anyway You've got open-minded yes, I do Why Christmas lights and color Christmas lights hey Christmas lights are nothing racist Anyway, you've got open-minded people and you've got skeptical people and you got believers You got non-believers those who fall into the or close-minded and open-minded skeptic and believer There can be skeptic and be open-minded, but if they're closed-minded skeptics, that's where you get dangerous But I also think you get dangerous with closed-minded believers when somebody already's made up their belief system in their mind Oh, yeah, a piece of paper moves in the wind and it's a ghost yeah, and They have ideas that are not correct based on years of investigating that this is how this is it's really not But they think most of us that with sweet all class fire stuff is open-minded skeptics and that's where I think that's a healthy spot to be And that's where I think everybody in this room right now is open-minded skeptic well I look at everything from us.
I'm not skeptical at all. I'm I have seen way too much I everyone in this room has seen and been through way too much I think to be legitimately a skeptic however that doesn't mean that you can't look at everything through a skeptical filter Try to debunk almost everything you want I'm saying is basically when you see something when you see some activity or get something to look at it say Was there a plausible reason why that happened aside from paranormal and then you kind of look at it and then after you've kind of examined everything say I know I can't think of any reasonable Explanation for why that chandelier can't fling off the ceiling sideways, so this is what I'm left with I think that's a healthy kind of Skeptic to be yeah, and there's been multiple conversations with Castle and I where he's calling me at 3am Hey, do you remember this point and this goes on when this happened This is a person do you remember this because we try to do everything that we can to disprove something as well as prove it to be something Actually paranormal and that's where you can tell someone's actually kind of knowing what they're doing in the paranormal So that's a perfect example yeah personal boundary issue. So if I be fun, you make it call it 3am I love this is why I tell everybody at these lectures I always say you know the construction of a levels and they have that little bubble and you know When you're trying to level two by four is or your shelves or whatever and you've got that little bubble that goes to one side Or the other and then when it's right in the middle that's where you want to be well That's kind of how your psychology needs to be when you go on it goes You want to train your body and train your psychology to be right there in the middle Don't readily accept everything don't readily dismiss anything and then things will start to happen to you That's when it's almost it's almost as though when you are underwater in a swimming pool And you open your eyes and everything's foggy then if you were to put on goggles and you open your eyes and everything is clear That's kind of how I describe it once you finally hit that mark Well, I was gonna say and it's interesting because I remember one of the full figure operations I saw is at the secret location speaking public constantly anyway That wasn't us. I know it wasn't us.
Somebody kind of botched the secret location badly Big steamy pea all over it big steamy For everyone else anyway But I was in the basement at the secret location I had Jess with me and I had Tim Conyers with me and we were we just cleaned out the venue for the night Everybody was out we were the only three people in there in the basement I was looking down the hallway and I saw a perfect silhouette of a man I remember his shirt was tucked in his pants. I can see it kind of ruffled up with a stonari song too, and I watched him walk across and into the wall You know my first I was actually cool, but my second thought it was just me It's like kind of I said to Tim and Jess I said did you guys just see that too and then I thought oh yeah And then in my mind and this is like thought going a million miles an hour I'm like okay, well if they both side, then it's not just me. It's on the idea here. We go cool I've heard that audio and it is cool.
Yeah, that's way cool because I don't see that You're brandy so go whatever I just do that all the time. That's a big deal. That's like you know what I call that Tuesday I'll get you know I'll get Marco Polo's I'll get photos I'll get calls Has anyone with me the stuff going on at my home? Something happened to somebody go have any like any's not a pet she's a person.
She's just not living yeah I don't know. Do you guys know who any is? No, Annie is brandy's great great great great great great grandmother Her spirit is attached with brandy oh, okay, and it's fun because we've all had experiences with Annie In fact I was actually explains with Annie you remember that Benson Gris Mel with the box moving Oh, yeah, that was Annie that was her and her friend Charlie or Charles. Yeah, that was where that was something else I've got that on video that was actually really really cool.
Yeah, in fact if you've not seen the video I have a link to the video on the wisp web page under our video section You know the problem is is that we don't have I wish we had a an additional video of us trying to move it That was that was the part the video doesn't show us because Mark McLean who's one of our bestigators and I feel back we've had mark on the show but that particular show was The biggest thing we had to spend in the back when we were at the life on the rocks Yeah, he was there, but he was another room poor mark We've had him on the truck a couple times in every episode. He does doesn't work, but he's an engineer by profession That's and he's probably our best and biggest debunker on the team if something happens. He will spend hours Trying to figure out how to recreate it and it's fantastic and I love it That's what he's dancing Christmas is a box is going he literally spent the rest of the night trying to figure out why that box would be moving I mean he went upstairs was jumping around and this box for people who have not seen the video yet It's suspended. It's an old wooden box circa mid-1800s and it's hanging by two large chains and it's suspended from the ceiling And so it can free swing, but it's so heavy Anywhere between seventy five to a hundred pounds really heavy and if you push it it moves back and forth Maybe twice and then just stops well this thing moved on its own and would twist and do all kinds of weird things while swaying back and forth For a 20-30 minutes on its own With in a room full of 40-50 people and we tried and tried to try to jump run around Go upstairs on the level above and get this thing to swing by just from inertia from from us and couldn't make it work So I say and the interesting thing too is that we could get to speed up or slow down just by asking it to which I thought was interesting We'd be like hey can you speed that up and start spinning or swinging faster?
It was like there were two people just pushing it back and forth and doing exactly a different outside and yeah really really cool Yeah, speaking of any stories by the way about a week and a half ago I went to her radiation and I'm Everybody knows I've heard on us to get everybody and the staff at us I'm like a little we want to talk to you. I go why is that and they go well We think you brought a ghost with you. Yeah, go. Why do you guys say that?
I go well we came in and sat down with the computer in your file immediately out of all the files we have the computer Your file just popped right up and I started going into ultrasound stuff started going into weird stuff that we don't even know how we did that We don't even know how ourselves had a computer Wow Wow and they go we think you brought a ghost and I had never mentioned any of them I just I looked at that sounds like Annie and they go should we ask I said probably not But let me tell you any instance I explained it and then later that night I shut brandy text I said brandy was where's Annie at? And she shoots me back at text and goes I don't see it flexed six hours said what she with me today. I'll let me find out now I'll be darned if I hadn't gone down some and been messing with their Wow, that's crazy when we go places as a group and things are kind of slow and there's not a whole lot of activity Annie will be like playing with the devices and making things Activate oh my favorite and experience was at the Leonardo we're going through the science section and there's a giant J. It's what this thing is probably as a tall as John do myself and we're both like 6 foot 5 So this is huge and I look at brandy and I go can Annie keep that thing just suspended at the top and before I even finished my sentence She held that thing up there for a good 30 seconds.
It was awesome. Oh, yeah The only in our by the way isn't seen like you guys know, okay Oh, I don't doubt there's a few places on my list of places. I'd love to investigate the Leonardo used to be the Salt County library There was a hostage situation up there and the police shot and killed the guy who was the hostage taker And he's rumored to haunt the third floor of that area For the bodies exhibit and the mama's exhibit there was a lot of negative energy. Oh, I would yeah I would imagine I was hugging the walls trying to know that I could fill it in fact speaking of a go back to public investigations a little bit as a ghost investigator and I know Chunga has felt this pain as well there are so many awesome locations out there that we would love to investigate and It kind of disappoints me to an extent how closed Minded I guess for lack of a word or how non-open to investigations some of these venue owners are well It's not it's been my experience.
It's not that they're closed to the concept of it being haunted It's they don't want all the cukes in there right? They I've been told by numerous people. I won't name some of the locations But really prominent locations to say look we would love to have you come in here But you're gonna talk about it and then when you talk about it I'm gonna have every hot topic You know pale face blue wearing Gothic freak in here It's the negative stigma that comes attached with every wacko in the world is gonna be in here Oh the tape recorder and I can't have that this is actually well No, I listen I'm one of them, but we approach it a much different way than Well, and I think it comes back and I think it goes full circle back to the people who are working I find evil spirits talk to for free You know I still love lurches response to that by we do board you can find them anytime you want Oh, no, don't you dare don't listen to these people? No, that's one of the things we talked about We've actually got mad we went to a sound 49 last year and like the week before we were there There's a different group there and one of the take a hold of snuck in a we'd board and actually kind of start things up And he got himself jumped into I think it's a big time But we've talked about it several times on our shows we had to go back the phone We had an investigation schedule the following week and the staff asked us to kind of clean up that mess We'd be bored saying on says none of that stuff don't do any of that crap don't don't invite anything to your house That's together hallway effect.
I remember that particular hallway They'd invite like three or four new demons into that hallway I was talking to the guy that was selling the guy that was selling the tickets They when they found out about it they kicked those guys out They don't allow that stuff in their tours either But these guys actually like legitimately asked stuff to jump in them and then we're surprised when it happened It's if you ask already what happened and it's not something you want do you just keep that stuff at the venue Yeah, most of us have natural safe guards that kind of thing But you can remove those by simply verbally saying come on in here I am or by doing drugs or drinking like that poll we talked a couple weeks ago on which goes back to the people drinking I go so I know it's a particular ghost hunt Watch I know you can remember because it was a disaster because we didn't set it up and by we I mean pod bash and us But the comic-con ghost hunts that we were asked that we were asked last minute to come in and save them because no one about tickets Right and they it was not well organized One of the venues was a bar and they didn't close the bar But I remember I actually came came to that particular one as a ticker holder It was it was me and Ben Hanson and a couple of the ghost hunters international TV hosts Which were lazy and frankly didn't know their asshole from their album anything they stood there Oh, they were and one of them was loaded so there's a kid in my group who was absolutely just blitzed and wow Talk about opening yourself up to to trouble and basically being a jerk for everybody in the group For them. Mm-hmm. Well, I had a friend ask me once when I told him because he knows brandy as well He asked me well does she ever drop acid to open her abilities and my response was like are you effing crazy? I'm like that's not gonna open her abilities.
That's gonna kill me. Yeah, that's gonna invite stuff in that she doesn't want It's not only bad. I mean, it's just how can you possibly how was that construction bubble that I'm talking about? How was that centered when you're doing that right?
Well, if you're an altered state well and we talked about an episode to go about investigating an altered city Yeah, there was a poll on one of the paranormal pages that someone asked if If you drink or smoke weed or anything before an investigation There's there's a lot of people that we kind of I respected as investigators until I saw the responses They're like oh, yeah, no smoking We definitely opened you up so you're more willing to accept the spirits there and sorry But if you're that week as a person that that is required for you to be able to do this I suggest you find a sports channel and spend the rest of your life watching that because you shouldn't be doing that See my mess ice to drink all the damn time, but why am I these guys actually pretty much put a stop to my drinking Oh, yeah for sure well And it's one of those things to that your credibility shot because if chunk it gets all kinds of loaded on something and comes To an investigation and then comes running the room say I just saw five full-body operations And they told me the end of the world's tomorrow. You're wasted You know did he really see that or he just had a little too much that you know And so to me so there was a time and place for that and I like that place too Just not a ghost on and but it destroyed your credibility to ghost on it Blitterate your credibility In fact, I was I've been looking at a venue and one of the things when they're telling me what the venue cost was that includes liquid refreshments? I just want to slap my friends and yet my I wanted to go to that distillery, but I'm just like that's that's got bad news and all of it because part of the price was yeah You could drink and if you wanted after they closed down and during the investigation You could still buy whiskey and so you know at one point and this you know Maybe this will give people some background is to just how much we worry about the about the credibility and the legitimacy what we're doing Ben Hanson and I put together an event that we called ghost ship where was a cruise and we were gonna put everybody on a cruise ship Out of Galveston, Texas So you're gonna go to San Antonio first you were gonna do a ghost on outside the Alamo and then you were going to be busted to Galveston, Texas And then you were going to get on a cruise ship go to Jamaica investigate the Rose the Rose house the plantation there And we had it all set up and then we stopped and realized everybody's gonna be drunk That's what cruises are there's alcohol everywhere the alcohol is I mean you can't you can't turn your head without seeing somebody with a drink in their hand There is absolutely no way this can be credible We scrap the whole thing Because there's there was just no way for us to be able to say that the data was was a hundred percent credible and real Because of all of the distraction that would be around so we stopped it Yeah, that just the again lowering your defenses that I don't know I and I know you worry about this and I worry about this but Liability to an extent of if we get somebody into some trouble That's a huge fear That's something that always is in the back of my mind because I mean is my my my personal life with my with my big boy job That's one thing to the problem for castle But there's a reason why we had a Utah superior court judge draft our waivers But so that's why I mean my job all day every day I think about liability every single thing I ever do I think about liability because I just I've done for 20 years is how is this gonna come back about me if I do this wrong? And so I always worry about that when someone's coming into an investigation in an altered state or being stupid and my personal thought on Is it someone's being stupid?
I have no problem in checking in if you want to refund screw you You're not getting anything your cost of admission is the price of me having to deal with you Yeah, that's exactly right. Absolutely. So I think we're gonna wrap it up. We think you have to come on the show I'm gonna say Merry Christmas.
You guys Merry Christmas to you Don't be a fool to me wrap your tool. It's awesome to have it's awesome to have Deanna silent Don here It's awesome to have to have all you guys here It's been a long time and that we've been working with you guys. I've never been to I think this is the fashion I've seen you since like the overniner at the off-Broadway back in Janie. I smell like spell on time.
Yes. Yeah I'm sorry. Were you gonna say something to you? I just haven't said anything almost on that because Gary won't shut up.
I still need to have my own mic next time Next time you will we'll sort that out for sure. Yeah, everybody for those who can't see what was going on Yeah, I'm sorry here hugging the mic for your life and you would And I just pull it right back just like this. She was hanging out for your life Well, no, but I'm just so proud you didn't need to filter today. I didn't have to step in once we'd have Changa more often Yeah, check a kick collar ass Excuse me.
I'm wearing an oversized hoodie and I have the strength of a 15-year-old girl. I could take Changa Hey me to the hand of the table. You can totally tell me. I could take you want to get sushi.
I can take me any way you want me Oh, yeah Let's see this one upside ways at the end anyway. Thanks everybody. Merry Christmas. We'll be back in January We're gonna take a little hiatus for the holidays and go since they're coming up.
Hey, can I talk about? Upcoming future redesign of the site. Yes. Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. Just so everybody's aware shortly after the new year There's gonna be a new pod bash site launched. It's gonna be prettier. It's gonna be more fun.
It's going to reflect the fact that we have 12 million listeners Yeah, it's gonna be you want those bios you've been asking for like six months. Yes. Yes, I've been asking for like six months Yes, but it's gonna be fun So be looking for that we're still hammer not some details, but we're gonna make it So it's not only fun place come to shows but fun place to hang out chat Basically interact with us on a not quite live but interact with us on an almost daily basis there There's something new every day happen a pod. It's gonna be a destination So we'll look forward to that and thank you everybody and we'll see you next year have fun storm in the castle You're listening to the Wisps was that should vestigative studies for paranormal sites They're grown as adults that like to sit in the dark and talk to each other, but they all love their moms So that should account for something