Today's emergency edition of the BS podcast, special Nick's freak out edition brought to you by ZipKruder. You know what's smart? Keeping for Zingas. What are you doing next?
You know what else is smart? Going to zipkruder.com slash BS to hire the right people for your business. They identify people the right skills for you. I have to actively invite them to apply right now.
My listeners can try to zipkruder for free at zipkruder.com slash BS zipkruder is the smartest way to hire. Let's talk about the ringer.com. We were breaking down all things basketball. Anthony Davis wants to get traded.
For Zingas did get traded. You can read all about it on our website. You can listen to the ringer on BS show. You can listen to all of our podcasts.
Actually, you can listen to me in a couple of pods this week that aren't this one. The rewatchables would be a proof of life. I went on cousin's house podcast to do part one of our Super Bowl props that we will finish and put up tomorrow. So that happened.
And then I actually went on House of Carps to talk about this new LA State House that I went to called Cheesebock it, which was delicious. So check all that out and then come back tomorrow because we're going to do a fourth podcast this week. This is what happens when we have emergency NBA news. We add podcasts, coming up a whole bunch of people to talk about one of the most perplexing NBA deals in a few years.
But first, our friends from Pro Jam. All right, it is 120 Pacific time Thursday. This is an emergency podcast. I was supposed to talk to Sal about Super Bowl.
We're going to push that to tomorrow. Four podcasts this week. Have Chris Ryan here and Chester Berry here. They just taped a Ringer NBA show that is now.
It feels like it was taped in 1950. There's still good content on their bill. Okay, good. All right, you can still listen to that.
What was the content? It was Anthony Davis. It was BP before Porzingis. And then Sean Fenniss is here as well.
He's just crestfallen devastated. The Knicks have traded Porzingis to the Mavericks for, and they got rid of their two worst contracts. Sure. Tim Hardew and Courtney Lee.
I'm here. The expiring contract of DeAndre Jordan and Wesley Matthews. And I think Trey Burke went to the Mavericks as well. And there's some future pick that we don't know what it is.
It's basically a salary dump with their franchise player. Really? He just gave me a little bit of context. I really feel like I'm losing my mind.
Because he was so high on this, like, 10, 15 minutes ago. He was like, this is great. No, that's not what I said. That's not what I said.
I'll explain why it could be great. But can you give me some context for if this has ever happened? Has a team ever dumped its most valuable piece for Cap Room? I don't think it's ever happened.
So cool. Let's start here. By doing this, the Knicks are basically saying we're getting Kevin during a career of summer. Right.
We're getting both of them. So that's the first thing. It's funny hearing all the Knicks fans flip out on Twitter. But that was my first reaction.
Like, holy shit, they're actually getting those guys. And then there's something fan. I'm like, oh, fuck. We're going to lose Kyrie Irving.
What was your basketball take there, Justin? I would say just fear if you're a Knicks fan. Like, do you, if you have this cap space, are you really all that comfortable with Jim Dylan putting it to you, considering like how they've done that in the past? Yeah, if there was any team, if that was their plan, if there was any team you would trust less with that plan, I don't know them.
It's pouring right here. And I think it's God is a Knicks fan. It's Jason Gallagher crying with hatches. So the last time we did this was 2010, the Knicks basically did a two year cap dump to part the C's so they could get LeBron and Wade and whoever else.
Whoops. They got none of those guys. They got a Mars star in Miami. It was good for about five months.
50 games. And then they're back in this whole thing. So this is now two full decades of the Knicks doing this, Sean. I just said to our colleagues today that this is the first time this morning that I have felt good in 19 years about what the Knicks are doing.
They finally leaned into the tank after years after the Patrick going to the Sonic straight that they should have been leaning into the tank. And they were doing it perfectly. So the Bulls won yesterday, giving them a two game advantage, putting them in the second spot, the bottom of the lottery. The top three teams share the same odds of getting the top.
The bottom three teams share the same odds of getting the top picks. But just staying in the bottom three, that was my only feeling. With staying in the bottom three, you'll have a ton of flexibility in the offseason. You'll probably have enough.
If you make one deal to deadline, you'll have enough for one max contract spot. And if you want to trade your assets, you can do it. You can trade KP along with Courtney Lee in the offseason. And we just talked about earlier today on Group Chat.
If they're going to trade KP for anybody, it was going to be Anthony Davis, perhaps the best player in the NBA, not Dennis Smith Jr, perhaps the sixth best player on the Dallas Mavericks. That sucks. I mean, I'm not a junior. Can we talk about a couple of different, there's so many different, like can we start here?
Yeah, this trade is still available in June. Sure. Next. This is why, hey man, if June comes around, we're not going to be.
So he's one of the craziest things about these last few days, especially the Anthony stuff. And this thing is like, what do these guys know about the summer that we don't know? Well, I guess the wrinkle here is the reporting, since the initial reporting is that KP will only sign the qualifying offer in Dallas. So I wonder how much that means to the audience.
Essentially, he's a restricted free agent this summer. The team that has his rights can match any offer he gets. But if he's not the qualifying offer, it's just for a set amount of money, but for only one season. So essentially, they only have Porsingas Dallas if he commits to this for one season after this one.
But he can't sign that qualifying offer until July. Until this summer. I guess the complicated factor is if you waited until the summer, it would have to be a sign and trade at that point. So I guess that's why they move now.
Why they move now for this deal is a completely whole. That was the rationale for why people felt like the next I know Chance and Anthony Davis, because there was an expectation that he had no desire to play New Orleans and that we don't know what the future of that franchise is. So KP not wanting to be there, obviated the opportunity for them to get Anthony Davis, which is fine. The Knicks should not have been trying to acquire Anthony Davis because they didn't actually have the assets to get him.
What they should have been doing is holding a spot for Kevin Durant, trying to draft Zion Williamson and having Chris Osbourns-ingus, probably one of the 25 most talented players in the NBA on their roster. At least one of the best assets. Well, maybe they were worried that they didn't think KD could come unless they had the second max slot. KD's like, I'll come, but you have to get the second max slot.
So then they panicked and they did this. I hate when teams make a trade that they don't have to make. And it just feels like there could have been a better offer. I asked you before we start taping.
Where was Sacramento in this? Right. Could Sacramento they had all the same experiment contracts? Could you have least gotten Marvin Bagley either?
I like, I have a lot of them. I'm a dentist with Junior. None of us. That was a really good slide.
Maybe I'll take a look at what happened. You should have to be in and I'll get into it. So as far as it goes, Kristoff's waist is unhappy with the losing culture and the nicks to Kristoff's tooth is a maverick. What do we think happened?
Do you think he wanted to come back and they were like, no, don't come back? Well that's when he understand the dank. Yeah, in New York it's that he has wanted to play and he feels like he has going to be healed after the All Star break and they don't want him to play because they're tanking. Now, it's unknown now what they're going to do with these new assets.
Do you just let Dennis Smith Junior play 35 minutes a game and maybe win you five games. You shouldn't win. Do they immediately wave West Matthews and downwind Jordan? But Matthew, both those guys are expiring.
So you could flip, Matthew is probably for, I don't know. Second round pick. Yeah, something. DeAndre, if almost if you watch Dallas, it almost seemed like he was tanking the whole year.
Yeah, it's kind of perfect. He doesn't move, he's a statue on defense now. The big picture thing for me is just, the Knicks have been so bad for really on and off for 73 years. You know, the subtext.
How do we all fall for these two? The original franchises who have the same names that they had in 1946 when the League Forum were the Celtics and the Knicks. The Knicks, they made three finals, I think the first 10 years. Then they created, they were terrible for almost the entire wrestler.
They had this brief comeback with Willis, they went some titles. Then they crater again. It's terrible, it's terrible, it's terrible, it's terrible. Bernard King, oh, this is fun.
Oh, we made the Easter finals, he blows out his knee. They get you in from 89 to 99, they're relevant. And then the last two decades, except for the basically one and a half carmeler years, not relevant, this is a team that has been awful like for 70% of its existence. Sweet.
Literally 70%. I've looked for reasons to quit so many times and they keep giving fans reasons to quit. Like Knicks fans, even if this works out, even if this is Katie, Kyrie, and Zion or Argebier, or whoever, it still feels like the wrong move. It's amazing because they just don't have enough guys.
Yeah, I mean, that's just Katie and Kyrie is gonna get you pretty high up in the Easter conference, but that's like, you're in a tough spot. You know, I guess to be fair, this trade is not available in June because those were expiring contracts. Right. So they're looking at it as, this is our last chance to get rid of 30 million dollars of contracts for next year that we could turn into Kyrie.
So here the next year going, all right. Just hold on, stay with me. We get to July, this trade is really Dennis Smith, Katie, and Kyrie for poor Zingas. You do that every time.
The problem is we don't know if any of those guys decided there. Who is that Bill from all of the islanding? What's his name? Scott Perry.
Scott Perry or Steve Mills? Steve Perry, Steve Perry. I wish Steve Perry made a trade today. I feel better about it.
Can I throw a conspiracy theory out there? Yeah. Do we know how healthy Christops is? Well, that's the rub with it, right?
I think that's why the Celtics were afraid of really diving in on him. So that I think the case goes both ways on the steel then. If it's possible that the Knicks have just traded Christops for Zingas at his lowest possible value over the last four years or at his highest possible value. Because they think that there's something wrong with his legs or something or his back or whatever.
That had always been the buzz with him. Lower legs. Lower legs. Hard for guys guys got big to play for that long.
It is a checkered history for the seven foot three and up guys. They really have not except for Karim who's an alien. They you know, you go on down the line, it is not gone that great. And that was the big fear with him.
But when he got hurt, he was playing awesome. Remember that? He was like, come on. He was like, remember when Christops is on the Knicks?
And he was incredible. I mean, he's literally the only great player they've had since Patrick Ewing. I know you guys have been trying to save Carmelo's reputation in the last few weeks. I know Justin is with me on this one.
Carmelo was not a great Nick. I also don't think Carmelo was a pantheon player. He's like the fire festival with the NBA. No, I'm just so psyched out because that trade is the kind of mortal wound that ruined that franchise for five or six or seven years.
And this feels similar. OK, this feels similar. Well, how many teams are saying to themselves, come July, we're going to be a player. Seems like we haven't in order to about.
And no free agents. Like who is actually going to change teams? Because Glee Thompson isn't. I thought Jason Concepcion nailed it when he said that, ultimately, this feels a lot like to buy a Taris in Boogie Cousins in New York and not Katie and Kairi.
Like if it turns out to be something like that, that is dark. I actually think they're in a dangerous place with their fans. Because it's not going to work out. And Brooklyn is right.
So they'll only make one billion next year and say two billion. Wow. Right now, at some point, your fans just have to. It's like a bad marriage, where at some point you just have to get out.
Sure. Well, I think that the bigger issue with any NBA team right now is that as we're seeing more and more, I think that younger fans are more player-legent than team-legent. So as you get older, guys like Sean, guys like Brian Copelman are going to be fewer and farther between. They're not going to grow up with like die-hard allegiance to the Knicks.
They're going to be into KD. Having said that, though, didn't James Harden just last week or two weeks ago say how much he loved playing at MSG? Yeah, still a spectacular lot. Oh, sure.
I mean, LeBron said the other way it came to town, he was like it was always going to end here in the garden. There, it's still out there. They said apparently that Dow's game to the net were Dennis Smith got a triple double. But I had a couple friends that were at the game.
This and the energy was off the charts because of Luca, was Luca's first MSG game. And it was just like that's when MSG is really special. And that's been the irony of the last 20 years of just the fucking shitshow. But what's funny is, you mentioned like Copelman and Goldman who just died, who's rolling over his grave right now that they traded for Xingas.
But like everyone's out, man, the glory days are the Knicks. And the glory days were like 1968 to 1973. That was 50 years ago. And then it's like the Riley Knicks, man.
That was like five years. And there's Al-Man Miller and JR. That was like nine months. There are no glory days.
They're terrible. We were all fantasized in the 90s teams because they represented something that felt very New York, but was ultimately a very ugly perform of basketball. And they were a failure. That team was a truly heartbreaking generation for basketball fans in New York.
So they came the closest anyone ever came to beating Jordan. Didn't they? They had a 3-2 lead in the 94 finals and had a lead with like a minute left and blew that title. And then they lost on the, what was 95?
Was the Ewing the finger roll from four feet away. That was probably the best out of all those teams. Thanks for asking me to be on this talk. Yeah, it was great, right?
99 was like the last fun, really fun next day. You've been talking a lot about like historical aspects of this stuff. Can I ask you a question? Has it ever been this out of control?
With the league? Yeah, just a feeling of like player movement and like this sort of volcanic change out of nowhere like this. Yeah, I think that internet doesn't help. Sure.
Yeah. And stuff like like Rick Beakers thing the other day. Kyrie Irving's open to coming back with LeBron. Like can you imagine if somebody was covering the ringer day after day like like NBA players are covered or was like just a very open to going back to ESPN and then we'd come into work to stay with us.
We all be saying, Kyrie, are you going back? Like what's going on here? I don't know where the fuck it came from. That's what it's like to be an NBA player every day.
No comment. I was like blank twice and I was like, no. This is not what happened with DSJ. Wasn't he essentially sitting last week because there were some concerns.
Yeah, Carlisle was like, this guy, he was gone. Carlisle was like, I don't want to do this anymore. DSJ was like, I don't want to do this anymore. Carlisle had to walk it back.
Isn't it amazing that the Knicks now have Frank Nillikina and DSJ but not Donovan Mitchell? How fucking brutal is that? That's insane. And Moody, I don't forget about it.
Moody, Moody, Moody, Moody. What are you, what are you trying to trade a trade for? But three play cards? Two, they should trade for Malik Monk now too.
And to like involve those guys from A to B. I still believe in really punk. So I theorized, I think last year that I felt like the Knicks fans had replaced Red Sox fans. Like what we had with Red Sox fans pre-2004, which is like the default, the default thinking is always, we're fucked.
This isn't going to work out. This is going to go badly. We're going to screw this up. Isn't that what Knicks fans are like?
I think that it's actually Jets fans and Vikings fans that have a better case there. No, no, but I'm talking about the scale of the Knicks fan base because we also have a difference. Half of them are blocked. You're right.
You had Goldman and I, we talked about it on the podcast after he died. Like all the guy wanted was for the Knicks to be good again and to get back to where they were in 73. And it was 45 years and then he died. That's what the Knicks fans were doing.
But this is also the big thing. Like everybody looks at the ring and they're like, oh, you guys are much of Celtics and Sixers fans. I got Knicks fans coming out of my ears over here. Yeah, every night, it's just like narration of it on Slack.
It's just Matt James and Noah were keeping the faith and divine were keeping the point of mind when the dentist today. We're keeping the faith on this up until like 12 p.m. What's going on? I think you can put me under and just not bring me back at the dentist today.
So Noah, Noah's like 26. Think about his life as an ex-ologist. Like you barely remember Spreewell's last season. He's an nostalgic for Jason Kidd.
Yeah, remember that one year man, we hit those three with Chauncey. Oh no, was Chauncey on the 13 team? No, they got rid of him. Chauncey was 11.
They stretched him. Oh my God. I, it's a fiasco. I mean, if you want to talk about the more positive side, this is an amazing Maverick Street.
Well, so let's talk about that really quick and then we can go back to making fun of the Knicks. Great. Heralabob. A friend.
Yeah. Executive of the year. A former PS podcast, Paul Faber. Like he went into this with the same mindset that when Daryl took over Houston and Daryl's like, I just need to get two stars.
Yep. And then eventually that moves to you. I just need to get three stars. But yeah, I just got to have two stars.
I don't care who else is on my team. Just got to make sure I have two guys who make a difference. And now Dallas has these two guys that are kind of perfect together if KP can actually stay healthy. But not just can't.
And even if KP can't stay healthy, it's not the end of the world for Dallas. No, and what do they really give up? They give up the first round pick and they give up PSJ who they didn't want to have on the team anyway. And they've learned over and over again, they're not necessarily a free agent destination, right?
Well, you are if you have Dodge it. I agree with you. But the other thing, are they a stealth kind of eight seed now? Depends if he comes back.
It comes back in like two weeks. Do they literally have enough guys on the roster? So they have Hardaway Junior and Courtney. They have Dodge it and KP theoretically.
Yeah, clear. They got Harrison Barnes. Barnes is like a competent NBA player. Definitely.
If he's your third or fourth option, that's good. Dallas is four back from the eight spot. It's feasible. If KP came back in a week, it's.
It also probably depends on what year the player took next year. And Atlanta has their pick next year, right? Yes. So they have every reason to go for it.
Yeah, it's just yeah. It's top five protected. So they were heading toward this range. So they're just going to bring it back and just go for it.
Why not? I got rid of DeAndre, which makes it better. He's been a director of the team too. There's shown signs of life.
Sure. It's not 1973 really amazing. But ultimately, this is now one of the most fun teams in the league if he comes back. I'm trying to throw two guys together.
Is there a more electric, like good one, two combination than the league? Like John Collins and Kevin Huerta. You mean it's like ball handler, big man. Or just two young players.
Is there any better combination than what they have? So you take Huerta and Collins over in beat seven. Is that worth? Well, we all have weird and Collins completely together.
But I offer some team to offer some on the table for you. I re-entain him, count? No. I mean, it's like 20 seconds.
He's a little veteran though for the formulation. We're talking about it. Hey, speaking of him, so now every for the next, like at least three weeks, like every single Celtics game, it's going to be like, it's going to be basically all eyes on him. Well, that's the other thing about this trade is it is now like disrupted two of the best teams in the league.
It'll break my heart. Go on state who is playing the best they've played in really two years and looks like they're ready to go on like a 27 game winning streak and they play tonight. And now it's like why the Knicks do this? Is Katie going to the Knicks?
Now they have to do that. And then the Celtics, the Kyrie stuff, which I think I talked about on a podcast a couple weeks ago that for the first time it heard from the Celtics said that they were like, yeah, we actually have no idea. And Ames went on a, like one of the radio shows in Boston. It was essentially like, we're always selling our team to our own players and to prospective free agents.
I mean, it's always a tryout. It's like, it's a lot different than Kyrie going in front of the season ticket holders and being like, I'm going to be here for a while. It's funny how this works. You know, like, well, but the Rockets did the Wink Wink with CP last year, right?
Probably would have pressed a reset button on it if they had to, but they kind of stuck by it. Yeah. The Celtics, I think had a Wink Wink with Kyrie. But now if Kyrie goes, actually, I've changed my mind.
I'm going to go to the Knicks. Like, what do you do if you're the Celtics? And I don't know anything. It was illegal to talk about a next country.
We also know Kyrie is probably significantly more mercurial than CP. I mean, he's just an unusual guy. Yeah. I mean, he's fucking announced a horror movie this week based on the Skirvin Hotel.
Yeah. Yeah. That he's going to star in. You might as chance to like make the finals.
You guys can confirm though that when whether it was tinfoil had or not, three months ago, five months ago, I was like Katie and Kyrie to the Knicks. I feel like it's Katie and Kyrie to the Knicks. So you trust Scott Perry and these guys that they think that they can pull that off. I trust Donald Trump's cabinet more than I trust those guys.
But I, but I don't, the Knicks have never had $76 million in cast space. They've had 35, but they've never had 76. That's a lot. Do you think Rich Crownt climate as the new team president?
Fine. Sounds like back from his last. I was going to get the first time. I feel like it would be appropriate.
If it means Katie, sign me up. He's team president. Here's the other thing. All right.
Let's say this all works out. They get Katie and Kyrie and they get cam reddish or something. Fine. Why do we think Katie and Kyrie would be good on the same team together?
They're pretty odd. I do think they're complimentary players though. Yeah. I wonder if your best friends, if you're Kyrie, let's say the options are Katie or AD on the Lakers, like where are you going?
Or would you stay on the Celtics? I would rather play with AD. He's way better and way younger than Katie. I don't think Katie going to the Lakers in that formulation solve a Katie problem.
Yeah. You're saying Katie and AD to the Lakers. No, no, no. You're saying Katie goes to the Knicks.
Yeah. Yeah. Katie goes to the Knicks. AD goes to the Lakers.
Who would you rather play with or let's say the Celtics land AD? would you rather just stay there and play with AD? I personally would rather stay with the Celtics. He's getting Anthony Davis thing is predicated on whether or not Kyrie Irving is staying for zoom.
Hold on guys. I'm going to bring in conspiracy bill for a second. You actually do look like the Unibonk right now. What if LeBron and Kyrie have played this all on?
So what? So they accepted Scott Perry. So you don't think that what if what if it was like we both got to get out of Cleveland, screwed down Gilbert. You work at trade to wherever you go to Boston, make sure they get a draft pick back.
I'll go to the Lakers. And then when your contracts up, we'll reunite like Andy and Red at the end of Shawshank. But Anthony Davis will be there too. And that leaves.
You can't tell me that 100% didn't happen. Staples Center is Zuwataneo. Yeah. Staple want today.
I mean, that doesn't make a Knicks fan feel any better but anything in the universe. That's a nightmare. You know what else will make you feel bad? I know for a fact that LeBron and Wade want to go to the Knicks and don't want to downy well screwed it up.
Great. That happened. Cool. Perfect.
That's awesome. It might rally came in last minute because the Knicks screwed up the meeting so badly. Those guys kind of looked at each other like, yeah, let's get a play and be. I'm just thinking about a conspiracy bill.
Okay. So you don't like that theory? I think that that that's the problem. We're dealing with the right way closer than anyone.
It's like the stuff. It seems like it would be fringe thinking is actually probably more believable than not. It's more believable that there is like basically like a handshake agreement between a bunch of these guys to go to the Knicks right now than there is. They just decided to trade as you described in the most talented player they've had since Ewing for Dennis Smith Jr.
And a couple of expiring contracts. Let's take a quick break. We're taking a break to talk about Tequila Mockingbird. You might have heard Aaron Sorkin was on this podcast Academy award winning screenwriter and playwright.
He discussed his long career. All the great things he did include in the West Wing, the Newsroom, the social network. Well, he has a new play on Broadway. It's an adaptation of Harper Lee's Pulitzer Prize winning to kill Mockingbird, which was recently voted America's best loved novel of all time.
It has also become one of the most popular and toughest tickets to get on Broadway. It set the record as the highest grossing American play in Broadway history. It doesn't feature the Knicks, which is bonus. It's been selected as a critics pick by The New York Times.
And it's been called one of the greatest plays in history by NPR, two-time Emmy Award winner Jeff Daniels live on stage as Atticus Finch. Variety said one of the greatest stage successes of this or any Broadway season is now played to a single empty seat. And why would sold out for the next several months tickets would make a fantastic Valentine's Day gift when purchased for available performance this summer or fall tickets are available directly through telecharged.com or the show's website to killamockingbird.Broadway.com. Check that out.
All right, we're back. So I just looked at Twitter and Yaya Dubin, is that Jared Dubin? Yeah. He tweeted, Charles, Charlie Word was the last Knicks draft pick to sign a second deal with the team for longer than one year.
He was drafted would have seven. I'm 30. That's amazing. We got to just give all of Sean's reactions here today.
I'm just sick. I can't I can't believe they did this. And it happened in the span of an hour. And there's just no way that there's logic behind what they were thinking.
Well, I'm scared of what he said, imagine being in organization so inept, you trade an athletic peer shooting, seven foot three defensive monster on his rookie deal in exchange for cap space. Let that sink in. Oh, no, he actually agrees. I can't get over this.
This was for cap space and D.S. Jay, who is by no means an elite player, by no means has. Yeah, but you don't know how D.S. Jay and Frankie are going to work together.
You know what I mean? Maybe like they're also is offset, you know, since this is on the record. Let me come forward as an ex fan who does not believe in Frankie smokes and has not understood the cult of Frankie smokes whatsoever. If you've watched him play this year and he up and down rotations of Fizdale, you know that he still has absolutely no offensive game is no command of the game.
And his defensive skill is I think pretty overrated. Like he just doesn't impact games at all. So why do we treat the valuable guy but not the not valuable guys? What would you have gotten for Frankie?
Yeah. Something anything around pick it around. Pick it around. You know, with Frankie and D.S.
Jay when we have Kyrie. I think nephew Kyle is more trade value than Frankie. Thanks. Now you're good.
Kyle is vital. You're a good team chemistry. Yes, you're the key. They would keep it having play combo guard off of Kyrie, right?
Taking shots away from Kevin Durant. Look, I like you. Like we saw that show already. The finals, Dennis Smith is the big winner of the straight.
He's like, let's go. Oh, he's going to go there's my team now big apple and D.S. Jay here we go. That guy getting triple doubles and leading the next like 25.
What do you think? What do you think? Dale thinks right now. I think he probably thinks he's getting Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving.
Yeah. Yeah. How about I think that South X should just trade Kyrie right now to to New Orleans? No, it really feels like he's going to leave.
So maybe maybe they should actually like shop him and think about what would you want to get to be the future? Yeah, what's a fair return for? No, Jimmy Boller. Here's this.
Straight up. Maybe. We keep talking about how AD and Kyrie want to play together. Why not just trade Kyrie for AD?
That's what I'm saying. Drew too. Just take both of those guys. And throw like every J.
Lyn Brown and a million picks in there. And yeah, just assume the the pelicans team and do it better. That would be the funniest possible ending of this like 10 year Danny Ainge as a accumulation is to become the pelicans. Well, there is there's a move where like it could do a three way where Kyrie goes to the Lakers.
They send stuff to New Orleans. Boston ends up getting AD like, I don't know if it's realistic, but is that ultimately your end game? Is that what you wanted out of this? I got to say my head spinning.
I don't know what I want anymore because the next doing this makes me think that they feel like they're getting those guys. And it's like, I believe then Kyrie and Boston until two weeks ago. And then I started getting nervous about it. The problem is that I wouldn't necessarily count on whatever those guys are maybe sort of signaling right now being the case in July.
Like I just think that if anything, we're seeing like how fast off moves, how things can fall apart and come back together. I mean, I was going to ask you three, five weeks ago, we were like, all the warriors. They look shaky. Look at the magnets, man.
They don't look like they're really enjoying their basketball anymore. And now they look like they're going to like maybe you just say, like, can we run this team back? What's crazier? This or true detective season three?
This is like just for weird. I can understand true detective season three. This is, I don't understand how this goes from that such a weirdly worded word street tweet, the first Christoph's tweet that he said out that was like, there was, they've had meetings and there's concern on Christoph's as part about the culture. Yeah, it wasn't even that he asked for a trade.
It was that they came away assuming that he wanted out. He didn't outright say that he wanted out, but that was their interpretation of the meeting. Also, the immediate reaction to that from pretty much every Nick's fan and NBA watcher and universe was Christoph's being concerned about the losing culture of the Knicks now as opposed to four years ago. And he was drafted or six weeks ago and losing a lot of games.
I mean, he's never from what I've heard. He's never really been happy about anything the last two years. Except for the fact that he's like basically like, he's the better part of most of his career, yet is still like a recognizable NBA name because he plays for the Knicks. He was on the Pacers and he had missed this much time and we'd be like, it's two back Christoph's never worked out.
But if you go back in time and through the last four years of his career, what were the things they could have gotten for him if they had traded high on him after that second season when it really looked like he was going to be. I know for a fact that Jason Tatum pick was that was the number one pick, I think was in play. Well, we know Tatum sucks now, so that's good. I'm really not that.
You're either at false. No, Lonzo, no, but I think that's not. I mean, that draft now looks kind of weird. I think Phil wanted to trade him for that number one pick, but I think he wanted more stuff than just the pick, but I think that was in play.
I mean, that's painful. So you said something about that, right? You were like, there was like a three hour window where that like maybe going to happen? Yeah, I think.
And then I think Phil, there was some bitterness with the Celtics about that because I think there were some serious talks and then they realized Phil Jackson was just a lunatic. Yes. We're going to be leaving Nixon. Can we go through all the other things that have changed just since the summer of 2000?
Since this morning, 18? Yeah. I'm just going through the standings doing this up my head. Toronto has Kawai.
Philly has Jimmy Butler, who are also was traded to the Bulls in that time in the last 18 months, Indiana traded Paul George for old Depot and subbonus. Um, Celtics got Kyrie, Celtics got Kyrie to trick up late Griffin. Atlanta traded that Donch H. Whatever trade.
Yeah. Um, the next trade of poor zingas, the Warriors got boogie cousins. Oklahoma City got West, but got Paul George. Houston got Chris Paul forgot about that one.
That will grant Chris Paul trade and then Sacramento did something weird. And if you Davis wants to leave the Davis wants to leave the world. It's the entire year. Half left on his deal.
Fifteen of the best players in the league revolved in something over the last eight. That's why I was asking like, do you, do you basically like, do you think this is sustainable? Like do you think that there might need to be like, I, I personally, like obviously, it's good for business. It's also very entertaining.
But is this how they want the league to work? The interesting thing that has emerged for me, especially around AD, and I'm curious what you guys think I know about this. Cause I don't know nearly as much as you guys is just the complete and effective, in effectiveness of the supermax, the idea that that is just not a trump card at all for, for, for super star players. And it's actually a hindrance.
If the guy is 70% as good as you thought he was, like in the John Walks, where you do the supermax. And then right. So let's go. Like, ideal Blake Griffin, nobody's the one that deal.
It hasn't really worked. I think the only times it has worked are sure things like Steph Curry, because he has the best team in history around him. I think maybe one other instance, it's worked, but the more recent examples just, it has no doubt. I mean, it only works with married guys way more stable.
What do you do if you're a small market team and the supermax doesn't work? Like what are the alternatives for the union at the next negotiation? So the NBA is heard this argument because it's a league and crisis. Nobody wants to admit it.
The league is like in full crisis between the tampering, the player movement, the tanking, like this is all bad. And they point to Oklahoma City. And like, well, Oklahoma City is a small team. Westbrook, we sign there and then they traded for Paul George and kept him.
So it's all fine. And it's like, it's not fine. Yeah, three years from now, because if you own, if you own, no one says now last their two franchise guys or they're about to go. Right.
And then two good players and less that get there. Elizabeth San Antonio is probably going to feel aggrieved by that. That is, I don't know if that was a small market thing, but I think it's a team that's like, look, we are at a free agent destination. If you're Indiana, if you're San Antonio, if you're New Orleans and you're not going to get, you can't get into the mix with these guys.
Yeah, there's a little confirmation bias probably happening. Like New Orleans just didn't do a good job over the past decade. This is a very weird situation with Kawhi and his injury and how they dealt with that. And like what his uncle wants, like how many crazy uncles are out there that are going to throw off like a top five player in the league.
Well, you know, because you covered the pelicans, they went all in really quickly with that true holiday trade. And, you know, in retrospect, that turned out to be a good trade. But I think the one model that we've seen really work, if you have a gym, who's like 20 or under the model that works is the KD model in Seattle, where they were like, we're going to be really bad for three straight years. We're going to put blue check guys around the sky.
We're going to grow this. Now, maybe it didn't work because they didn't have to trade hard. I mean, you got screwed up, but that is that's how you build around a young star. And what you're exactly what you're outlining is what I was screaming for three years ago with Porzingis.
I was like, the next thing to strip this team down, they need to win 12 games a year and they need to acquire picks to build out more assets, not unlike what the Sixers did, because there was no upside the likelihood of them making the playoffs with the Courtney Lee's and Tim Hardaway Jr. of the world was very minimal. And I'll never get over that hardaway deal. That's like one of the worst contracts.
And I'm going to remind that too. He was, but that was like $50 million, like $75 million for Tim Hardaway as your number one option is insane. While David Griffin, I believe was on a playing to New York interview. And after that, it got canceled.
It's so funny that, you know, we see this over and over again in sports where you have somebody like a Phil Jackson who's passing through and he's clearly not going to not there for the long haul, but now he wants something good to happen in the short term, because otherwise, what do I care? I'm getting fired anyway. And then that leads to $30 million a year for Hardaway and Courtney Lee, where anybody knows anything about a basketball would have been like, just keep your cap space rolled over. Use the cap space, get more picks.
Like you're not going to be good anyway. Like keep going. Maybe two years from now, something will happen. And these guys never think that way.
You know the other wild thing about all this is because we spent most of group chat talking about how it's malfeasance to not let the market develop for Davis. Yeah. If you're dense, you can't get barked into doing this because you're just like, you can't break and send him to Lillakers because that's what he wants. Like you have to get the Boston offer first.
Yeah. Where was the rest? What were the other Christoph's offers? Because there was like five minutes where Zach Lowe was like, watch out for the Spurs here for Christoph's.
Why not? Like, see what Miami wants? Like, see what there's a number of teams who I think would have taken a pretty big swing to get Christoph. I would have loved like buddy and bagley and a pick.
Like that would have been amazing. Exactly. I would have been so much happier with that. I don't know if I would have.
If you're the Kings. I don't think I do that at all. Because I know no way. Because I don't think I can keep poor Zingas some Sacramento.
Yeah, maybe. But maybe you say Derek Fox is there. He's a legitimate top. No, the trade was bad.
The trade was bad. If they had done if you just done that exact same trade, but you put bagley in the DSJ spot and you bring poor Zingas in and you hope that he loves playing with Fox and Hill, then now you really have something. Maybe he'll stay. Yeah.
I don't. I don't know if he's one of those guys that cares about what cities he's in. But we just learned he wanted to leave New York. So you're talking about a good fire franchise.
I mean, really, you just outlined the last 75 years. I mean, despite the fact they're New York, they are so badly run and historically been so badly run. Like you just can't compare it. It's not like being in Boston or in Los Angeles because they've literally ruined the value of being in New York.
There was a, I mean, you go back like when they hired Donnie Walsh post Isaiah. It's really made. I mean, now I'm going backwards. Like Scott Layden was off also really horrible.
Dave Checkitz was bad. Isaiah was, I still think the worst GM of all time when considering all the things he did. We did this on Slack. Like six weeks ago.
No, there's no way. Drafted. Well, it's like no, Isaiah was the worst. But then Donnie Walsh came in and it was like finally.
I got dulted. Yeah. And what they had was like, I think his health was, I mean, it's not his fault. It's not a little bit when they had LeBron Wade meaning he's in a wheelchair because he was recovering.
So they're like, we'll Donnie Walsh and I think those guys were like, this is going to be the mastermind. And this guy's like, he's sick. Like what's going on? You have James, the only dressed in all black asking if these guys want to come to a show that night.
What's the last time you've looked up stories from that era? Because I've done it pretty recently. And I forgot the fact that they put together a clip of the Sopranos in which they were like Tony was like, we need to go get LeBron at the airport. It's insane.
Some of the things they were doing. And that was the first time that the guys had their own camera crews and stuff. That was the birth of the whole. I'm going to use my.
My turn. I'm making a documentary about the Paul George. Chris Bosch had one doing, Wade had one. LeBron was the decision.
And that was the first time. But I thought this is bad content. I mean, we don't have to adjudicate like 2012 nicks or anything, but I actually thought that even though they were not able to land the big fish and LeBron Wade, a lot of what Donnie Walsh did during that time up to the Carmella trade. I really liked the assets that they acquired drafting Galinari Wilson Chandler.
Those were entertaining teams. They were a good fit from Mike D. And even though they were never going to win the title, they were accumulating young assets and they spent those young assets on Melo, which was a huge mistake because he was going to be a free agent. And it's not unlike, you know, some of the situations that have been out in the last 10 years with guys who were on the press, for agency, getting dealt and then you realize that you've just wasted your assets to sign somebody to stay with the team.
Well, hold on. If we're really going to legislate the mistakes, think of a hundred million to a Murray, which is fine, because the idiot, they had the, what was it called the amnesty clause was coming? Distretched. So they knew that was probably calling in the after next lockout.