The Roswell Incident

Each week, he sits down with old friends, new friends, good friends, and bad friends to tell a story of an infamous serial killer, something true crime, dark, creepy, or otherwise mysterious. I fucked that up. I stuck it the first time through. You got nervous. I got inside my head. I got inside my head. Welcome, everybody, to episode 111 of One Million of the Serial Chillers Podcast. We just don't even care anymore. I'm not Jesse. I'm Greg. And I've got Jesse with me. How's it going over there, Jesse?

Still not good at it. I'm trying, man. I'm trying. God damn it. It's been a night. It's been a night. It's been a night. It's been a night. It's been a fucking night. But it's going to be fun. It's a night of firsts. It's a night of firsts and seconds. My first time actually hosting an episode. Bobby, you're here. Great to have you back. Alex, you're here for the first time, for the second time.

And we will talk to you again shortly. Most of you know how the show works, but let me explain it for anybody that doesn't. Each week he sits down with old friends, new friends, good friends, and bad friends to tell the story of an infamous serial killer, something true crime, dark, creepy, unsolved, or otherwise mysterious. If something isn't clear, be sure to chime in because if you have questions about the questions, be sure to ask questions because I cannot answer questions about questions if you never ask questions. Are there any questions?

No. All right. Did I do it? Yes, you nailed it. I got it that time. I nailed it in the dry run. I fumbled it out of the gate, but I made up for it and I think I stuck the landing. Then welcome to and let's play the Serial Chillers podcast.

Let's get it. All right, we made some jokes about it being the second time that we've had to do this. We've done this before where we don't hit record. I didn't hit record. We didn't hit record. So we have two answers. We didn't get very far this time. But Bobby, again, clutched it, saved the day. We're having a good time. Honestly, if it wasn't for Jesse, we're having a good time. I'm recording. Today's story, tell me, have you heard of the Roswell incident? Yes. Yeah, you've heard of it. It's all familiar. No way. No way. I need to know more.

Okay, question number one. In what year did the Roswell incident occur? Did I get that? Oh, damn! Oh, my! So we already did this question. Bobby whiffed it and said 1963. Alex was a lot closer with 1950. She got the 250 points. So congratulations. Also, because we're doing this Jeopardy style, we'll knock out a little bit of business. If you want to look for us, find us on Instagram and TikTok at Serial Chillers Podcast. Find us on YouTube at Serial Chillers Podcast. You can look up the Threadless store. There's stickers. There's...

Patreon donation page. There's Discord. There's P.O. Box. There's website. Go to serialchillerspod.com. Everything is there. Everything is there. Everything is there. Yeah. The Discord's dope. Everybody's fun. Everybody has a good time. If you want to send us stuff, P.O. Box 1229 Clovis, California 93613. If you're going to send us bombs and drugs and poisons, address them to me. If you're going to send us nice and kind things, address them to Jesse. I want some of the drugs too, just to be clear. No, no, no. I mean like the bad stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're going to send us fun stuff, you can address it to both or him or whatever. Alex, welcome to the show for the second first time.

It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, tell everybody where they can find you. Alex Kelsenik7. I'm a personal trainer. And this is my boyfriend, Bobby. That's why I'm here. And these are his friends. And I feel cool. And yeah. Oh, you should. We are not cool. Yeah, definitely not cool. But they're cool to me. We're like dorky mid-30s dudes doing a serial killer podcast. But thank you and welcome. Well, I like the podcast. I've listened to a lot of your guys' podcasts because of Bobby and I. And I enjoy it. So I know others enjoy it. I throw it on in the car and she has to watch. She's got to drive really fast. She can't jump out, too. It's exciting. No, I really enjoy it. Well, we appreciate that very much. And welcome. Thank you.

You know me, I'm Hardcore B3R. You can check me out on every social media possible. But to get to the easiest, fastest way, you can check out my Twitch, which is xb3rx, or my Instagram, which is underscore, underscore, b3r underscore. So it's probably gonna have a b3r somewhere in it if it's related to me. So thank you. All right. Thank you. Welcome. I'm glad you guys are both here. This is gonna be fun again. So we've talked a little bit about the Roswell crash, but we're gonna run back through some of this stuff. It occurred July 2nd, 1947. It was a major incident, really gathered the attention and spawned an entire legend. A lot of people's entire professional careers and sometimes their personal lives have kind of hinged on this event.

pretty much everybody involved is in it to make some money for themselves. They're out there to just to make a buck, which hard to be mad at that. That's called America, buddy. My beef with everybody trying to make a buck out of this is that it kind of sullies the waters. Because it's people who are putting themselves in it who weren't in it.

Who are like, yeah, I saw it. I was there picking up debris with Mac Brazel. And you're like, what? Yeah, no, that'll make sense. Trust me, you'll get it. And it just makes researching the topic more difficult because it's hard to put together something cohesive because you have one chain of events here, one chain of events here, and one chain of events here. None of them line up. Yeah. So best as we can tell, the timeline of the Roswell incident, I kind of got all that in here. But we're going to start with Operation Mogul or Project Mogul. Operation Mogul was a U.S. Army operation in conjunction with NYU or New York University, where they used high-altitude balloons for the purpose of intelligence gathering. It ran from early 1947 to 1949. Question number two.

What was attached to the high-altitude balloons? Was it A, still photo cameras, B, video cameras, C, microphones, or D, battery-powered radar dishes? Well, I originally said A. Still photo cameras, which is a great guess. Yes, that's what I would have guessed. And it makes sense because that's the technology of the time. Well, I saw some pictures, you know, in my head that are from that Roswell stuff, and I remember seeing, like, aerial pictures. And I just thought, maybe, you know, maybe. Yeah. You want to know why I chose microphones? I do.

Because if you're going to be sneaky, you're going to do it the right way. Yeah, you want to listen in. You want to spy the right way. I'm with that. I'm with that. So Operation Mogul actually did use microphones to detect atmospheric sound waves to listen for nuclear explosions from Russia. Which is, again, we talked briefly about it. We were terrified of Russia. We were so scared of Russia after World War II. I mean, like the event 2008. The Red Scare. The Red Scare. The Cold War. And there was a whole Reds Under the Bed thing where Senator Joseph McCarthy would...

encourage people to turn in their neighbors that they suspected of being communists. It was like a huge thing. Like it was if you if you thought your neighbor was a commie, you like called the government. There was a show on FX called the Americans and it's about Russians being in America. It's a Salem witch trial shit. It really was. And it's it's it shows you how easy it is to stoke people up and get them into a frenzy because.

Why not? Yeah. So yeah, it could detect the Operation Mogul or Project Mogul could detect sound waves from Russian nuclear tests. Nuclear tests are actually, believe it or not, really fucking bad for the Earth. It does shit that can't be undone, at least not for a long time. I'm not here to preach, but I will say literally every spot on the Earth has some trace amounts of radiation from atmospheric or nuclear tests. But seriously, it is insane how much of the story is done directly because of Russia or the fear of Russia or the pissing contest we were in that was just called the Cold War.

Basically, they relied on the lack of atmospheric pressure to capture the sound waves, and the balloons had to maintain a specific altitude for them to work, which meant that they needed pressure regulators and other equipment to maintain that altitude. So it's not like it's just a balloon floating up there. It has all kinds of gizmos and gears and shit. Oh, shit. Yeah. They do it right. Yeah. Imagine the R&D for that.

Balloon? Pop. Shit, okay. Balloon with this. Pop with this. Okay, how do we power? And then from 1945 to 1946, that's what the tax dollars went to, my guy. Because this is a government program from 1947 to 1949. That's legit what they did. That's science, man. That's military science, baby. That's crazy. I won't get us too far off track, but Bobby, at one point, the government funded time and space traveling via telepathy. So later designs of the balloons were made of a polyethylene plastic, and they had something like mylar on them to be reflective. Yeah.

On July 4th, 1947, a mogul balloon from NYU Ford launched and crashed in the New Mexico desert. According to the RAAF or Roswell Army Air Force, this was part of the Roswell crash conspiracy. However, on July 2nd, a pilot over Oregon reported seeing something strange. He said he saw nine disks flying across the sky. He made his report and it was pretty fairly wholly dismissed. He was flying. He said he saw nine objects that he determined to be little disks flying across the sky and reported it to the FAA and all this stuff. And they were just like, nah, you're crazy. Not a thing. Think about it. It's 1947. People aren't.

don't have UFO on the brain yet. You know what I mean? Like the most recent scary thing that they had was War of the Worlds, which was like nine years before this. Or Chupacabra. I mean, Chupacabra's been around forever. Forever, dude. And he is terrifying. So according to an Army official, according to an Army official report, Roswell Factor Fiction, there were 16 UFO sightings from May 17th through July 12th, 1947. Though the number could be as high as 800 from the same report.

So, you know, great consistency there. In July 1947, UFOs were spotted over New Mexico, and they were called in and reported to local authorities. The reports match the reports coming from the Pacific Northwest around the same four-day period. So the pilot over Oregon who noticed the nine disks and reported them, if you kind of follow the trajectory from Roswell to Oregon, like coastal Oregon, it goes up through Alaska and like out into the East Siberian Sea by Russia. So like you just have like this you can kind of follow it all the way out that way and it's just it's kind of a weird trajectory in class It's not direct. It's not a direct line at all or you can just kind of see that it goes it keeps like This they were spotted here and here and like it makes the line kind of going out anyway. I'm sure that it's just important later And I'll tell you all you'll put it on the screen There's not really a map for it, but no, I'm not going to

So July 2nd, 1947, terrible storm over central New Mexico. The storm came with thunder, lightning, and high winds. At least one civilian and one, I think, army officer reported a white disc with a red trail crashing over the desert. So throughout this, like, thunderstorm, they saw... this round white object come through and have a red trail behind it. And two people reported it. There were also numerous other reports of UFOs that night. Can I ask a potentially dumb question? Please. Is there significance to a red trail? Like, is it on fire? So, in my opinion, UFOs have no need for colored lights. That's what I'm thinking. What atmospherically would cause it to have a... Heat. Okay.

if it's heating up, like if it's coming in through the atmosphere, like you seem like we see it, though, like would we see what you've seen? You've seen the videos of like the space shuttle reentering and they're kind of read across the front from the heat and the friction, like when the tiles superheat. Correct. And I totally see what you're saying. But for me, it's like the that's when we start getting like contrails and stuff. Right. It's not breaking sound barrier and it's getting really hot. It's that superheating contrails are. Yeah. Hot air moving. Right, right, right. So that's why I'm like, why was it red?

I thought the same thing. Is it like blood? No, I agree. You've seen nope. I agree that it being red is weird. And I think when you see red, I think planes, helicopters, things like that. Because they have those wing lights that flash red. You know what I mean? The helicopters have those lights so they can be seen. And so that's what I think when I think red. Because UFOs have no use for a red light. You said it was trailing behind. Right, like a streak. Like it was a white disc with a red tail. So what if it's like...

the material that's used to fuel or to run said ship, maybe it's because it's from off-world, it looks something like that because of that. We'll get there. I think that's the easiest explanation for anything alien, right? How would we fucking know if it's alien? Well, we will get there. I'm pink if it wants to be. Again, numerous UFO sightings reported July 2nd. The next day, July 3rd, 1947. That's my birthday. Really? Not the last part. 1947. I was going to say, are you a vampire? Damn, Bobby, you look good. I got bit when I was young. July 3rd, 1947, Mac Brazel and his neighbor, the young D. Proctor, were out.

moving sheep over to feed. Mac was a farmhand in the New Mexico desert. Dude, I forgot how good all the names in the Roswellers are. Dude, Mac Brazel and D. Proctor are such good names. I mean, there's a lot of good names. They're amazing fake names. Catchy. If you were going to check into a hotel on all cash basis. Yeah, what's your name? Mac Brazel.

There used to be an NFL player named Frank Zombo. And I'm like, that sounds like he made it up on the spot. He showed up to the combine and they were like, what's your name? He was like, Frank. And they were like, Frank what? And he was like, Frank Zombo. And they were like, that sounds real. Go ahead, hop in line. Here's your number. So Matt was a farmhand in the New Mexico desert. He lived in a one-room shack. He didn't have electricity or running water. And he had really no communication with the outside world, save for a monthly newspaper that he received. But he would go into town. He would go to the bar. He would go get feed and all that. So he wasn't a shut-in or a recluse. He just...

He didn't have TV. He didn't have a phone. He didn't have... It's fucking 1947 in the New Mexico desert. He's a sheep herder. Like, shit, man. So while moving his sheep, he ran across from some debris on the ground that his sheep refused to cross, and they had to be led around. He had to take them around this debris. According to him, there was a gouge in the ground that looked to be like something wrecked. The wreckage spanned over three quarters of a mile and nearly 500 feet wide. So this big gouge in the earth, his sheep just wouldn't walk through it. They had to be taken around this massive gouge in the earth. Notoriously, though... How did I always pick up on that?

Sheep are fucking stupid. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody thinks animals have a sixth sense when it comes to stuff like this. Because way back in the day, we just made a vampire joke, but way back in the day, when they would check for vampires in graves, they would lead a horse through a cemetery. And if the horse refused to step over a grave, they were like, bam, vampire, dig him up, stake his heart. This is Wampierre. Yeah, and have you seen the videos? How disrespectful. They open the grave? Yeah, dig him up, stake through the heart. Otherwise, they're going to come back and bite you and turn you into a vampire. Sure, you got a vampire problem, it's hard. They'll get you while you're brushing your hair because they don't have a reflection. They can sneak up on you.

So there's a lot of conflicting reports kind of from here on out. part of it came from some part of this information I got came from podcast part of it came from from some documentaries and articles and all that shit but Like literally the story's been done very concise very concise This story's been done to death so many times, but it's just such a strange story There's so many different like takes on it. Oh, yeah So Mac brazzle didn't really think much other than it was just a bunch of shit his way slowing him down 30 miles southeast of Mac there was a town called Corona New Mexico and it was the closest to the town where he was He was at the bar there one night complaining about having to move this trash on the third He was he was at the bar. He was just bitching about it And he was trying to get people to like help him and there was metal, there was debris everywhere. While he was complaining about the mess, people said that they had seen a UFO crash. They saw something out there. UFOs were kind of the rage at the time since pilots in World War II were referencing Foo Fighters while they were on missions. That's where that term came from. They would see these, they'd be out like... Dave Grohl. So yeah, people had seen, you know, Foo...

fighter pilots had talked about seeing foos and calling them foo fighters and all that. Foo fighters. And it's also around the time that science fiction is kind of really starting to pop off in movie theaters and where you get a lot of that really cool retrofuturism with the girl in the skin tight suit with the bubble helmet. And the planets with the rocket ships and that whole thing. All that stuff's really starting to pick up steam. And kind of beyond that, again, nine years prior to that was Orson Welles and the War of the World. And in the late 50s, you got Twilight Zone, too. Yeah. But you're still in the late 50s. That's 10 years ahead of us here. Yeah, we're still late 40s.

So yeah, people are really kind of opening up to the idea of life off-planet Yeah, and every time it's shown like in movies and stuff. It's never been good. It's always been catastrophic There's also a theory of the fact that because we're becoming a nuclear society We've started developing nuclear weapons and all that stuff And that we're not being cool with it We were used it for nuclear bombs and nuclear testing stuff instead of using it for energy That kind of brings in UFOs too because later on we'll talk about it, but they They show up at nuclear test facilities and stuff UFOs do and like when Valiant Thor who was a who was a very popular off-planet dude who showed up he's Venusian from Venus and he was living in the White House and He was telling everybody that they need to denuclearize and the White House was like not dog like We're not gonna denuclearize and I also saw that I saw your faces when I said that there's an alien living in the White House So for the purpose of and songs for the purpose of this episode Just assume that what I'm saying is true and that that everything you know is just fucked up and listen as Greg lifetime lifelong friend It's worked for me. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I mean, at the end of this, you can just forget all this and go back to whatever you believe. Honestly, I'm gonna be mad real about it. Aliens, if you hear this shit, I'm cool with it. Yeah, I'm cool. I got no problem with it. I mean, if they're gonna wipe us out, they're gonna wipe us out. If they're not gonna wipe us out, they're not gonna wipe us out. Hold on, I didn't say that. Either way, it's not my problem. I mean, don't wipe us out. Don't wipe us out. I've seen a UFO. Worth? We're gonna talk after this. Can we talk now? Is it long? No. Okay. I was just a child and I remember looking up and I'm like, that's not normal. And then everybody was like, not listening to me. I'm like, listen, listen, come outside, like, look at this. And then they're

I don't want to go outside. What the heck? I'm like, no, there's something outside in the sky that does not look like a plane. It doesn't look like anything normal. And I was like, this is weird. And I remember looking up, and I'm just like, okay, am I going to be abducted right now, or should I go inside? Were you missing any time? No. I feel like in that moment, I just... You account for everything going back inside and all that? You're not missing a chunk of time there? I mean, maybe. That could be an abduction. I was so young. My mom's friend, when she was a teenager, the whole family was in a car, and they were driving down the road, and they got paced by a UFO. The whole family saw it. It was very cool. Isn't that a common theme in pretty much everything involving aliens or UFOs? It's just like...

they gotta make it too crazy so no one will believe you. That's the thing, it's so abnormal. You're just like, what is that? So, yeah, they show up because we've become nuclear. And this question, well, I've got question number three here, and this doesn't really have to do with a whole lot, but I think this is just a fun fact, so I put it in here as a question. There was a company recruited to help with nuclear propulsion system on a rocket, and it's pretty unlikely. Who was that company? Was it A, Coca-Cola?

B. PepsiCo. C. Nestle. Or D. Mars Inc., the candy company who makes M&M's. It's a fun one. Because all of them seem super unlikely. Yeah. They're all food and beverage companies. Yeah. I know what I want it to be. There's two that I want it to be. What would you like them to be? I'll let them answer. You guys got transfers? I got them answer, yeah. Either of the soda ones. Like, check out this rocket. Well.

What do you got? I got Pepsi. Pepsi? What do you got? I bought A because I assume they had the most money. Well, they were here for a long time. I might have fucked up. All right. Well, so Coca-Cola was recruited by the CIA and the Air Force at one point to come up with a device that fit the back of a rocket that would essentially drop tiny nuclear bombs like a vending machine to propel a rocket through space. It makes sense. So you're absolutely crushing this right now, and I'm loving it. What the fuck? I fucking try hard at this shit.

Try harder, bro. Yeah, dude. I'm loving this right now. We're not curling tonight. So tell me, why'd you pick Coke? What'd you say? Just because I assume that Coca-Cola has the most money. That's like old money. My mom would drink like a pack of Pepsi a day. And I'd be like, Mom, why are you drinking Pepsi? That Coca-Cola is way better. She'd be like, I don't know. I got addicted to it. Like, I just assume Coca-Cola has a lot of money. They do. They absolutely do. And they were, like I said, they were recruited by the CIA. And basically what they wanted to do was make this, they wanted to use their vending machine design to dispense nuclear bombs that would roll out of the back of this rocket and explode to propel the rocket forward. Makes sense. Totally makes sense.

That's cool as shit. It's a very cool fucking idea. You make me look at vending machines a lot differently now. Right, just think about that thing dropping a nuclear bomb out of there. A vending machine for villains. I'd like to make a vending machine a sales vending machine. It had to be real fucking big. So there have been many reports of UAP, or Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, from nuclear bases near Roswell in the same state and in the neighboring state. Is that new nomenclature? UAP is what everybody wants to refer to it now.

Unidentified aerial phenomena, but I use it in this in this sense because they don't know they don't know what it is But it's something that was behaving unlike a flying object So like in one instance there was a they were launching a test rocket and it had a nuclear payload and as it started to launch a UFO showed up and like flew around it and hit it with Beams of light from different angles and then flew away and the rocket just fell out of the sky Good shit, aliens. Right. That's so high-tech technology. But think about this. You've got a rocket launching. You've got all that propulsion. This thing's fucking moving. It's not like it's just chilling on the launch pad. This thing's in the air and on its way out. And this UFO was like zip, zip, zip, zip, and then took off. And this thing went. He's like, you dump motherfuckers. Yeah, that's your target. So it behaves unlike anything that we do. So they call it an unidentified aerial phenomena.

So near Roswell, in the same state and in the neighboring states, there was White Sands Proving Ground, which sounds bad as fuck, but it was like a rocket test facility. Sounds like a Tony Hawk extension. Los Alamos Rocket Labs, which was also pretty fucking cool. They make a lot of rockets there. And the Roswell Army Air Force Base, the only nuclear-ready battalion in the country at the time, and the home of the Enola Gay, who dropped the first nuclear bomb used in combat.

So all these things, the rocket facilities, the test facilities, all that stuff's drawing in UFO energy because it's doing shit and they're allegedly interested. So that's the theory behind that. People in the bar informed Mac that there was a $3,000 reward for any debris from the wreckage, which seems odd to me that they knew that there was wreckage and it was on his property in the middle of nowhere. How did people know that there was wreckage and that they wanted debris and how did the word get out like that? So I think some of this is a little shady, but again, everybody's trying to make money and putting their own spin on it.

Mac thought it over, gathered up some of the wreckage, and made a trip into the sheriff in Roswell, the closest town with the sheriff. Again, 30 miles away. He met Sheriff George Wilcox, and Wilcox was less than thrilled about this guy just bringing a bunch of trash into his office. Like, he's like, what the fuck? Yeah, this guy just comes in with a box full of garbage. He's like, hey man, something crashed on my property and my sheep won't go around it. Here.

Yeah, so George Wilcox was less than thrilled about the trash brought into his office by Mac, but reluctantly made the call to Roswell Army Airfield and talked to Major Jesse Marcel. So now the feds are involved. And that's the guy that you see on the screen right there in the bottom left corner. That's him holding some of the Debris. He's my uncle. Same name, uncle. Same first name, uncle. That's who I'm named after.

So yeah, now that the feds are involved, Major Marcel reported to his commanding officer, Colonel William Butch Blanchard, and Butch advised Marcel to gather someone from the counterintelligence corps, proceed to the ranch with Brazel, and bring back as much of the wreckage that could be loaded into their two vehicles. So he said, get out there, grab all that shit, and bring it all back. Something interesting about this shit. Well, what fucks me up is they have no idea what this is. It could be a nuclear bomb from another country that didn't go off. Like, they know nothing. No risk, no reward, baby. You ever had that feeling where you were saying, something just makes you want to...

dig more deeper. You know what I mean? If something's off, like, you know, whenever you go in a room and you don't know anybody in the room, but something just feels like. The intuition. Yeah. So if I'm. Yeah. I think it should be. This seems like more than intuition, though. This seems like common sense. If you if you are at the Roswell Army Air Force Base, the only nuclear ready battalion in the country and something crash lands 30 miles outside of your fence. Yeah. You think somebody would be like, hey.

Let's go lock that down and take a look. Yeah. Not pick up two car loads of shit and bring it back. And 30 miles from thousands of miles away is like, oh, damn, just missed. Yeah. Like, shucks. We were off a fraction of a degree. Next time. Next time. We'll get them. So.

Yeah, these guys couldn't give an explanation for the debris they found. It was tiny I-beams, like around three-eighths of an inch thick, and they were light, like balsa wood, but really strong. Like, you know balsa wood where they make those little toy airplanes out of, and it's like that really thin, like popsicle stick kind of wood? That's balsa wood. And so it was light like that, but it was strong. They were trying to bend it, they were trying to break it, they tried to smash it, and it wouldn't break. There were thin metal sheets, and they would crumple them up, like mylar, and they would crumple it up, and then put it on a flat surface, and it would just return back to its original shape.

It even looked like liquid mercury when retaking its shape, so it would kind of... Like nanotech. Right. That's insane. At one point, some feds showed up to retrieve some debris from a family, and all the men had it in a pot on a stove and were trying to boil it down.

That's stupid. Sounds like they're trying to make meth. A lot of people. Well, it is New Mexico. I know shots fired at New Mexico, but that's coming from Fresno. New Mexico is like Fresno's little brother when it comes to meth. You ain't going to do anything we haven't done already. They did a whole TV show about it. So yeah, a lot of people had debris from the wreckage because it wasn't closed off. Before, they didn't know what it was, so it wasn't secured. So people were going out there and just taking stuff. Like taking souvenirs. And they're just wandering over and be like, oh, look at this.

And take that like you don't know what the fuck it is. Yeah, like why? It crashed man like leave it. And if it forms back into some shit you've never seen before, nah. It doesn't behave like anything you've ever seen before because you've never seen Terminator. Yeah, or is the blob out by this time? Right? 1947? I believe so. Yeah, the blob dude. You take it home and all of a sudden you start hearing this song and it's like, I am a Transformer. Robot in disguise. Every time it transforms.

So basically, it's not so much that these guys couldn't give an explanation or that they wouldn't give an explanation for what they're seeing, but they couldn't give an explanation. They didn't know what this stuff was. Major Marcel delivered the debris he found to his superiors and was asked to set it down and then redirect it to another room to show the exact coordinates on a map. So he walks in. He was like, hey, I've got the stuff you want to see. The guy was like, great, put it there. Go in there and show me on the map where it was. And he was like, all right, do it. So he set it down. He went in there. He was like, right here on the map. This is where it was. They go back in. And he was like, that's not the same box of shit that I brought in. And they're like, yeah, that's your box of shit that you brought in. He's like.

No, that's like wood and tin foil and shit. And they were like, no, that's what you brought in. All right, leave. The original alien gaslight. So when he returned to the office, he found that the box he brought with him had been switched out with another box containing string, mylar, scotch tape, balsa wood, aluminum foil, and some rope.

He said it could have worked that basically this could have worked if his children hadn't seen the debris either because like he took it home before he took it back to the base He was away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids He woke his kids up and woke his wife up and he was like yo I've got some shit and you guys need to see this So he brought it in for his kids to like handle and look at them kids are fucked for the rest of your life right put it in your mouth guys it doesn't have a weird taste enjoy super cancer Don't talk to strangers but pick up random stuff right and You don't want that his kid described it it's basically an adult by the time this documentary came out But he described it as like a thin eyedeme with weird writing on the back like alien writing on the back and like it was It was a silver beam, and it had a white stripe on the back, and it had, like, purple alien glyphs on it. That might just be from Uganda. Well, so, don't jump ahead in the story, man. So what was in the box was basically now just a weather balloon. So you're saying there's a chance. The Roswell Army Airfield, through Walter Haught, issued a statement to the press that they captured a flying saucer on a ranch in the Roswell region. And that's legit, like, that paper got printed and went out. And the Associated Press picked it up, and it went out again a bunch of times. So a bunch of people saw this headline. Say it again, what was the headline?

I lost my spot. They captured a flying saucer on a ranch in the Roswell region. And then the sub headline read, no detail on flying disc given. So yeah, the information went out on the teletype broadcast by Frank Joyce of KGFL, who interviewed others involved in the story years later. So like years down the road, he was like, hey, you were involved in there. Like, yeah, so he interviewed him for spots on the radio and stuff.

Basically what this means is that they either one had something the likes of which they'd never seen before because they were like, yeah, this is a fucking UFO. It's a flying saucer. Two, somebody ran their dumb stupid idiot mouth off and probably got a solid court martial out of it. Because you got to remember, this is coming from the military. Or three, they had a UFO and they were just kind of testing the waters to see how the public would react. Yeah, they would panic. Because if you say, hey, we got a UFO and everybody shits and they're just like, what the fuck? It's chaos in the streets. You're like, ah, we don't have a UFO. We were wrong. We have a weather balloon. Yeah. See? Weather balloon. Yeah. So as predicted, the public didn't take to it very well and there was a lot of...

But there was a lot of excitement about a captured disc. Then the Army, again, Walter Hott, quickly, like two days later, recounted his story and said what they had captured was nothing more than a weather balloon. Years later, he said he was just telling people what he was told to say. Like, as an old man, they interviewed him, and he was like, yeah, they told me to say it was a disc, so I told him it was a disc. They told me to say it was a weather balloon, so I told him it was a weather balloon. He's like, I'm in the Army, I take orders. Like, they told me to say it, I said it. I don't know what the problem is. So it was the sudden about-face in their statement because the public couldn't handle the idea of UFOs? The reports coming out of the scene of the wreckages were even more far-fetched. There were multiple crash sites.

The debris that Mack Brazel found was apparently from where a disc skipped off the ground and continued. There was also a large crater where the sand underneath had been burned and melted into glass. Damn, so that happens when the sands exposed to heat over 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit or 1,700 degrees Celsius Or basically the same the same temperature as the space shuttle entering the Earth's atmosphere or the same temperature if you burn a Volkswagen engine block on the beach They're the old Volkswagen bugs engine blocks were made of magnesium They're all blocks were made of magnesium You can set them on fire on the beach and it would burn real hot and it would make the sand around it Turn it into glass. Why do you know that? Because I've got friends who've burned engine blocks in the desert. Also Bobby don't ask questions you don't want the answer to

So the flying saucer allegedly skipped before it crashed. How far did it skip? Question number four. How far did it skip? Closest to it gets 250. 500 if you nail it. How far did it skip?

You can give it to me in inches, feet, miles. I was going to say, you're leaving it wide open. I like that. Wait, can I hear that question one more time? The flying saucer allegedly skipped before it crashed completely. Like what Mac Brazel found was the skip, like a rock off water. And it skipped before it finally stopped. How far? How much further did it go before it stopped? I wish I know if it was the first skip or the middle skip. Just one skip. I'm guessing 100 feet. 100 feet? I'm guessing. I was going to originally guess 420, but I'm going to go 415. Something tells me to say 415 feet. 415 feet? Yeah. Okay.

Bobby, you are going to get the points. You are closer. I want to say 1.5 miles. Yeah. I was going to say, you are closer, but you are not even close. It skipped like two miles. I was going to say far, but I just... Yeah, basically what happened was it came down and it skipped and it picked back up and then came back down. And when it came back down, it landed at the base of a mountain. So it went... See, my thought was like, yeah, it's entering from the Earth's atmosphere, right? So that's a lot of force. A skip can be, you know... Yeah. A lot more than 415 feet. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Like two miles. Two miles.

Bobby's on the board. Bobby is on the board though. Congratulations. So you're not pitching a shutout. And there goes your perfect game because you missed that one. That's okay. Hey, you know what though? It was good while it lasted. It was good. It was good to see his face of me winning. So the second crash site at the base of the mountain was discovered a few days later while Roswell Army Air Force officials flew Mac Brazel over the farmland so he could describe where the crash took place and the debris he found was located. They basically took him up in like a little Cessna and he was like, yeah, that's where it skipped. And they were like, what's that over there? And he goes, I don't know. And they flew closer and they were like, holy shit, there's a second crash site.

And there's reports of bodies being recovered here. Between three to five bodies were found. Again, differing reports. Some of them have these bodies as alive. Some of them are dead. The bodies were between three and four feet high, each weighing around 40 pounds. They had large heads with sunken, oversized, almond-shaped eyes, four fingers, and long, thin arms. They appeared to be nude, but were actually wearing a thin, tight-fitting suit, according to a former encounter intelligence officer. And some were reported to be found alive, conscious, and while others were decidedly dead. Allegedly, according to the mortician Glenn Dennis or Glenn Dennings, I saw both.

Both names, I'm not sure which one it is. In Corona, New Mexico, the Roswell Army Air Force called and inquired about child-sized caskets. So he's a mortician. They called him and they were like, hey, do you have any child-sized caskets? And he's like, I've got one. Doesn't happen a lot. I think he had two. And he was like, I've got two. And they were like, cool, how long will it take you to get four more? And he was like, I could get them, I guess. And they were like, good, go ahead and order those because we're going to need them. And they've got to be airtight. We want them hermetically sealed. And he was like...

So he got more basically again the story splits from here some say that the bodies were buried others say they were preserved in a gel-like solution I tend to believe that they were preserved because holy shit if you had an alien corpse and buried you're the dumbest motherfucker on Sesame Street I had proof of life on another planet and you were like ah you know what I'm gonna bury it in a hole in the desert dude I hope somebody put me in some gel if I went to a different planet and I was their alien What do you want, like, L.A. looks? Maybe, like, just imagine being, like, Michael B. Jordan in a gel tube. And they let me out sooner later one year. Like, hey, man, we actually just kind of want to know about you. What's up? Oh, shit, how long I was in there? 100 years? Damn! This got weird fast. Yeah, that was a thing right there. I'm sorry about that. Question number five. Yeah, what's up, man? It's believed some of the wreckage was shipped to Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, which became known as Area 51 in 1951. Oh, shit. Where did the rest of the wreckage go?

Was it A, Lemoore Naval Air Station? B, Travis Air Force Base? C, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base? Or D, the Pentagon? I say D. Say D? Think it went to the Pentagon? I'm just assuming. Honestly? I'm gonna go D too, man. That's a really... No, no, actually, no, wait. No, no, no. I'm going with C. I'm going with C. Using a little strategery. Wright-Patterson Air Force Base? Yep. All right, well, some of the wreckage did allegedly go to Nellis Air Force Base. The rest of the wreckage did, in fact, go to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.

As a result, Dayton's become a UFO hotspot, and there's actually a really cool video. I don't know how much this I'm going to keep in the show, but there's this thing called the Black Knight Satellite that orbits Earth, and people think it's a spaceship. And it's this kind of a tombstone-looking thing, and it has a little step-down, but it's big like that, and it has a little step-down. It's just a satellite that orbits Earth. Nobody knows what it is. Huge, fucking huge. But there was a video on the Dayton News of a UFO over Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and it looks like the Black Knight Satellite.

Which I just thought Well, I was gonna say there's UFO parts allegedly being worked on there at Wright-Patterson So we've been using the technology for ourselves to make some stuff. Yep. That's tight. I mean, hey, if it breaks down anything It's been a flesh wound. Well, so depending on who you believe, we got a lot of technology from this. Oh, yeah, these phones are definitely aliens. So the bodies were shipped to the 8th Air Force headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas, and that's where we believe the cover-up for the UFOs really began. And it didn't stop there. As is typical with a government cover-up, they disseminate false information to the public. And what this does is create a cloudy and convoluted timeline for the events, and it makes any individual involved hard to trust because of the conflicting stories. So what they'll do is they'll tell you. Like, they compartmentalize. So if we were all working on one UFO project, and I'm in charge, you only know what you need to know to get your job done. You only know what you need to know to get your job done, and he only knows what he needs to know to get his job done.

If I hear anything from the outside, I know where it came from because you don't know what he knows. And so on and so forth. So that's how they track that stuff back. And then they make you seem crazy to the public, fire you. Or they'll do letters. When stuff gets leaked, they'll do letters. And after one period, they'll put two spaces and they'll send it to you. And then after the second period, they'll put two spaces and send it to you. And after the third period, they'll put two spaces and send it to him and so on and so forth. So that way, if it's ever leaked to the public, all they have to do is find out where that double space is and they know exactly who they sent it to.

So they do little tiny stuff like that to keep tabs. Damn. So as is typical with government covered up, again, blah, blah, blah, false information. Couldn't hide anything. Nothing, no. If we actually recovered a downed UFO in the initial press release is true, that's huge. It seems to make sense that the person in charge gave the information that he had at the time, and he was actually doing his duty to report as best and accurate as he could. And then somebody farther up was like, ah! And he was like, shit, yeah, you're right, my bad. Whatever you say. It doesn't seem too far out of line for intelligent life to be out there. It lends credibility to guys like Bob Lazar, who banked everything they've got on believing that Area 51 is the home to reverse-engineered UFOs.

Bob claims to have worked at a secret facility inside Area 51, and he had a whole documentary done about him. He's been on the news since the 80s and all this stuff. He said it was a hangar behind a large rock door on the side of a mountain miles into the Nevada desert. Question number six. What was the name of the location that Bob Lazar worked at? I feel like I've seen that in Austin Powers or something. Was it Area 52, Area 51A, S-4, or S-D-A-E-F-M, which means Special Designated Area Experimental Flying Machines? It's the fucking military, dude. You know there's acronyms for everything. That's true, that's true, that's true.

So I'm getting some gut feelings here. I'm going to say C. Damn it, I said C too. Hey! You both scored points. Yeah, it is called S4. Bob Lazar worked at S4 and alleges that his job was to reverse engineer technology found in and recovered from UFO crashes. He was recruited from his job at Los Alamos because he gained attention by putting a rocket engine on his car. He had like a shitty Civic hatchback or something and legit strapped a jet engine to the top of it. And it got it put in the newspaper and all this shit. Did it actually work for him? Yeah, he drove it to work and shit. He didn't have to use the jet engine.

He was showing people I could. Yeah. I'll black out of here, bro. 88 real quick. Yeah. Basically, after he did that, he got some intent. People were like, holy shit, this guy's pretty smart. He had a degree and all this stuff when they looked into him. So basically, he said his head was back and he was flown to a location unknown.

An unknown location unloaded and driven some more They only showed him where he was when it was clear what it couldn't be determined from the surroundings And he was let out onto a catwalk and walked onto the entrance of a ship like a craft And he said he didn't realize it But when he looked down he thought he was on like a metal catwalk And he was actually walking on the edge of the UFO like walking on that disc itself If you find his document it's very cool because he talks about how small it actually is inside the cockpit It's like it's pretty cramped for as much space as they should have that's insane. Yeah Through his work, he determined that UFOs were powered by an element that didn't appear on the periodic table of elements and technically didn't exist to us. Makes sense. Yeah. Question number seven. What was the number of the element on the periodic table that Bob hypothesized? Was it element 99? Element 69? Nice. I thought it would be 69. Element 115? Or element 0? Element 0 makes it sound like it's a secret agent or something. Right? Element 0. Well, I mean, what about Agent 99 from Get Smart? Yeah, I mean, that's just the one that stood out to me.

You guys got your answers? I got mine. I'm going to say C. I'm going to say D. D, element zero. Bob Lazar hypothesized an element called element 115 in the 1980s. Good shit. Yeah, he received a lot of flack, too, because the periodic table of elements ended before that. And in December of 2015, Moscovium was discovered and assigned the element to number 115. It's unstable, and it has a half-life of microseconds. So we don't have a way to harness any of its potential because we can't create any that survives long enough. You know what I mean? He's saying that we need this as a fuel source, and they're like, we can't get any that lasts long enough to be able to use it. Yeah.

But it's still widely regarded as not being worth the effort. However, Bob Lazar's design is accurate. We can achieve faster than light travel. Basically what he said is the UFO doesn't fly like this. It flies like this. Like when it's going super, super fast. When it's in our atmosphere and you see UFOs zipping around and stuff. Yeah, they're like this. But when they do that whole like interstellar travel, they stand up and they have three beams that come together and it creates like a little black hole and they essentially fall at the speed of light.

Into the black hole that's in front of them. They're controlling Right, and they shut off and they're where they need to be. It's like putting a carrot out in front of your horse Yeah, so that's crazy Honestly, that's some big Star Wars lore right there, you understand? Yeah, it's pretty crazy. It's pretty crazy to have like you just even your knowledge of UFOs shifted like that, right? Yeah

Well, just the fact that it's like you can go from here to here. Technology has to be so advanced. You have to be so intelligent to be able to create a ship that you can rotate and still be okay and not be like falling out. Yeah. Well, I mean, they've got that like with the space shuttle and stuff. You know, they can rotate, but they're in zero gravity, so they're not going to fall. Fighter pilots, you know, when they throw it to the side like that, and as they bank in their turn, it pushes them down into the seat because of G-Force. So, you know, but you've got to think they're moving. They go from static to the speed of light like that. So that to just not like be liquefied against the inside of whatever the craft is is insane in itself. That's what those seats are for.

So yeah, it's... possible what crashed out there was an experimental aircraft and was covered up as part of like national security in Roswell. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of stuff going on fresh out of World War II ramping up in the Cold War. Everybody's trying to spy on each other. The way war was fought was completely different after World War II. It wasn't about mass casualties anymore. The U.S. proved they could win that fight when they nuked Japan twice. Now it was about information. That's how you got the upper hand was information. Espionage was the new guerrilla combat and the world in the skies were the battlefield. It would make sense that they wouldn't want anybody to know what we were technologically capable of.

Which is also why when we had to go back to guerrilla combat, we got our asses kicked. Right. So at the time, they were working on things like the... Well, this is well before the U-2 spy plane. But they had the U-2 spy plane, which flew at 90,000 feet. And it flew so high and it flew so fast that you could look down at the ground and it would be going by faster than a mile a second. And...

They had there was another one that they wanted that they wanted to put a gun on that flew faster And then what they were like, we need to put it on the fight. Of course the US Air Force should put a gun on it. Yeah, and it flew so fast that you couldn't shoot that you couldn't shoot the bullets because it would go back Because it flew faster than the bullets did so it would shoot and it wouldn't leave the chamber Because it's traveling alongside inside of you. The United States put a gun so big on a plane that if they shoot it continuously for too long, the plane stalls because it slows the plane down. What if they rubbed the plane's engine with cheetah blood? It makes it run faster. It absolutely makes it run faster. This is the science we should have been doing. That's what I suggested that they do on the... Yeah, when Bender gets shot out. He's like, well, what if we rubbed the ship's engines with cheetah blood? You know that's not how it works. I love Bender.

So, yeah, it also could have just been a weather balloon. You know, they've got the pressure regulators up there given and taken and all that. Shun the skeptic. Shun the non-believer. This statement is that the fact that it's a weather balloon supported by the army outright saying it's a weather balloon. It's also supported by the documentary.

in the beginning that I mentioned Roswell Factor Fiction. In that report, the U.S. Army details the use of weather balloons during this time and the volume in which they were deployed between 2 and 20 weather balloons were deployed daily from Roswell Army Air Force Base. There was also the detailing of Project Mogul. Project Mogul, again, we talked about the spy. You know, just up to 6,000 balloons this year. Yeah. I have a deathbed confession from somebody who claimed to be involved in all this. Basically, he worked at Area 51. He saw this stuff with his own eyes and was involved to a fairly deep extent. He carried his guilt with him until he died and basically he made a bunch of claims. So there's this book called Area 51 by a lady named Annie Jacobson. Very good book.

And at the end of the book, spoiler, is this guy's confession. All right, I was going to read it. I don't tell you verbatim, but I give you the gist. So basically, he carried this guilt with him until the very end, made claims never before, heard about the Roswell crash and what it actually was. Question number eight. Who did this man work for? Was it the Army? B, the Air Force? C, the CIA? Or the Central Intelligence Agency? Or D, the AEC, the Atomic Energy Commission? C. CIA? We got Bobby. I'm going to say A. You think he worked for the Army? Yeah.

So he, in fact, worked for D, the Atomic Energy Commission. Because we were terrified of Russia and the Russians, another theory that we have is that this was all just a plot to drive the U.S. into a frenzy. Before Area 51 was... CIA test facility or Air Force test facility or army test facility It was owned and operated by the Atomic Energy Commission and that's where they tested nuclear bombs and stuff They use this area as a place to test nuclear bombs They tested those nuclear bombs on things and people so you know how you've seen like the videos of like nuclear blasts and you see the Dust be blown off the roof of the shack and then the shack get blown away Yeah, or like nuke town on on Call of Duty So they built towns like that and they would do that they would they would drop nukes and see if See how much damage it would do to the average American household or the average American Then they had mannequins in them and stuff like that they would test all that well They also had guys who would like sit certain distances, they'd be like, okay, everybody gets, we have these different, we have these five different shades of welding shades, you know what I mean? Like shade, we have all these different darknesses. Everybody gets one, you guys sit in groups of five, everybody gets one of each shade. You guys have to sit, you know, a mile away. You guys have to sit a mile and a half away. You guys have to sit two miles away. You guys have to sit.

three miles away and so on and so forth. Some people definitely died. But see, they didn't die immediately. You know what I mean? A mile was obviously very, very, very close. But they didn't die immediately. What these guys did was end up getting cancer and dying from that down the road because of the mass amounts of radiation these guys were exposed to. During one of the nuclear tests on Bikini Atoll, one of the scientists didn't have his shades on, and he was like, oh shit, I can't watch this, but I need to. And one of the other guys who was just like a radio guy was like, here, take mine. And he turned his back to it, and he watched everybody's face while they watched the blast. He said there was so much...

x-ray radiation in the air that he could see through everybody's skin like a flash he could see the bones in their face and their teeth and everything I remember another one too I think it was an Australian crew where they weren't told that a nuke was going to be going off they were on a boat in the water it was a Japanese fishing boat okay and so they said that they put their hands up and that they could still see because yeah it was bright enough that they could see through their hands yeah that Japanese fishing crew pretty much all of them died from radiation poisoning yeah makes sense I wouldn't pick that job yeah it's so it's super fucked up the amount of testing that we did like we blasted pulverized coral reef like a mile wide column of water and pulverized coral dust shot up thousands of feet into the air. Like a mile wide, seven miles high. Yeah, fucking of just pure destruction. No wonder the aliens are pissed. And then they were like, oh, let's take it to space. Right, I mean, that doesn't even include the ones that have been done in the atmosphere and stuff. You guys are destroying your planet for a while. We were chilling, but when you start throwing that shit in space, dude, like... Right. Then they were examined after all these tests to see what kind of effects the nuclear blast had on their body. You know, they'd be asked to, you know...

Get their temperature taken and get their eyes and their ears checked and all this stuff. According to an unnamed source who worked for the Atomic Energy Commission in 1947, it wasn't a UFO that crashed at all. We thought it was initially. We treated it like it was initially. We attempted to study what we found initially. However, the man in his deathbed confession said question number nine. What was it that did crash in New Mexico, according to this guy? Was it A, a weather balloon? Was it B, an experimental aircraft? Was it C, a UFO baby? Or D, Russian drone packed with surgically altered special needs children?

I mean, I told you I'm softballing some in there. You know what? I also have one here for I know what I want it to be. I know what I don't want it to be. No, no, I know what I want it to be. Oh my gosh. These looking real, real ripe though. I'm sorry. I'm going to go B. Really?

I mean, do what you want to do, but really. I'm going to go A. I'm going to go B. D does seem pretty logical. I want to say D because it's just so random. I mean, it would be serious because it's not something fucked up on you, right? But I mean, I don't doubt that. Jesse, would you want it to be?

Yeah, no, I know. So neither of you got points for that. It was in fact, he allegedly Stalin saved dr. Joseph Mengele's life got him out of Germany in exchange for sanctuary where he was recruited to help Stalin with this plan if I don't stall was part of it Maybe I would you know no man. No problem. You gotta you gotta you gotta do your history I said it right there Russian drone. That's solid baby. That's so weird because I really did take

I really did study a lot of Joseph Stalin in school. So yeah, they don't teach you this in school. Are you fucking kidding me? I found all this out after school. If I had known this in school, my history teachers would have never heard the end of it. Because he hasn't heard the end of it. And he's not somebody trying to tell me how to think about it. I can just hang up the phone. He does and he's right too. So Megalow was an accomplished surgeon with zero ethics. Let me finish. He did crazy surgical shit.

Zero ethics. He was a fucking monster. I don't want to mince words here. He was a fucking monster And he was supplied children for this project allegedly they wanted to use quote-unquote mongoloids I don't that's their word not mine and other special needs children. They were surgically deformed They had their eyes enlarged fingers removed and toes removed Their skulls were split and extra plates put in their head to make them look all bulbous their genitals were removed They were starved and emaciated and they were placed into an experimental aircraft Essentially this thing was a drone It couldn't be piloted and it had no way of making it back to where it was launched from. Essentially, they said it was a misshapen German V2 rocket loaded with surgically altered special needs children fired from a plane over Alaska. Remember when I said that those UFO sightings over Oregon that traced out to Alaska and out to the East Siberian Sea? And those young bodies were just... They were kids that were stuffed into a drone and fired towards our nuclear test facilities to try and scare us. Wait, this is allegedly what he said. This is according to this guy. And they ended up getting the coffins for them, right? That's why they were looking for the coffins for children.

That's a good cover-up, too, though. Right, so basically these kids were sent one way to crash land in the United States once they were discovered. It would be speculated they were extraterrestrials and the U.S. would be so distracted by this new phenomenon that they would be left open to an attack by Russia. Russia was banking on a War of the Worlds-type situation where a bunch of people freaked out about it, forgetting that the reaction to that whole situation was grossly overstated. Like when you hear about the War of the Worlds and everybody freaking out and melting down, it sounds like it was a national thing and everybody just shit. In reality, it was like small isolated pockets of people who didn't hear at the beginning of the episode where they said, this is an audio drama. Yeah.

Yeah, question number 10. There was some evidence found amongst the crash that led us to believe it was the Russians. What was that evidence? Was it A, a Russian flag inside the wreckage? B, bottles of vodka? C, bits of those little furry hats? Or D, Russian writing on the inside of the wreckage? I know what I thought. I knew what I thought before you even said anything. B. You think it's B, bottles of vodka they just found? C, crushed vodka bottles inside? Detective Alex wants to say that it's C, but just knowing Russians, I think it's B.

I'm gonna go with D. D? Yeah. That's what I originally thought. He just added it. So yeah, some of the evidence to support it was that the man said they found Cyrillic writing on the inside of the craft. So let me ask you this, Bobby. Could Cyrillic writing be interpreted as alien symbols by a child? Hell yeah. The kid who saw the debris with the Cyrillic on the inside and just was like, oh no, it's alien. No disrespect, but that's what I thought Jeopardy's in Chinese kanji was at first. I mean, when you're a child and you have no frame of reference for any of that, it's absolutely... It's foreign. Especially when you're like, oh, your dad's like, oh, just check out this weird crash stuff I found. Especially if it's even just like a...

You know city type of man who's grown there in that one little pocket himself coming into an adulthood He could still be not knowing any Russian or anything. Well, he never had to question in his head because that's what it was when he saw it There was never like a could it have been this but doesn't explain the rematerializing stuff No, absolutely doesn't explain any it doesn't explain all of it. Nothing in this story explains all of it Yeah, but all of it explains some of it unsolved which is which is what what's so fucking frustrating about this That's what I saw with the Roswell to what am I like inside brain sources? Even though it's not very correct. It's not very correct. Um, it's unsolved mysteries. Yeah

Very likely, I think they did. So I'm sure you've got questions like if it was a weather balloon, how did they find bodies? That's a great question. The army thought of that too. Project Mogul also involved the use of dummies dropped from obscene heights. It's also rumored that they used people for these tests, but they were provided parachutes. So they would just send people up or dummies up with these weather balloons and when they would pop and come down, these dummies would come down with the balloon. Dummies. Or people. You're probably also wondering what's the point of covering it up? Everyone thinks we found aliens. Why still lie about it? If you really believe that...

try talking seriously to literally anybody about aliens. Because most people don't want to give it the time of day. If you ask them, do you believe in aliens, most people will just kind of dance around the answer. They won't commit to a yes or no. They'll be like, anything's possible. You're like, yeah, anything is possible. What do you think? What have you seen? What have you experienced? You're saying it's a cop-out when I say statistically there has to be, right? No, I mean, what do you believe, though? Yeah, statistically there has to be, right? Sidestep an answer, that's fine.

So, yeah, and it's honestly, it's because for years through disinformation, counterintelligence and all that stuff, people who spoke openly, incredibly about UFOs were silenced or made to seem like they were crazy. Nobody wants to be thought of crazy. So they keep their damn mouth shut. Some of the people we talked about tonight were threatened with death. Some of those people that were threatened were children. There was one kid who was talking about some of the debris that she found. And basically this guy threatened her like a movie villain. He had a baseball bat. He's a military guy. He's got a baseball bat. And he was like, you know, there's a lot of holes in the desert. Oh, shit. It's like a little girl. She's like, holes? Yeah, sir. I don't even get that.

I'm just telling you what I saw. Shia LaBeouf, too. So, the deathbed confession from the member of the Atomic Energy Commission could have been a last-ditch effort to make people think it was the Russians instead of aliens, you know? He could have been a lifer with them and been like, nah. They'll buy this because it's a deathbed confession, but we'll use this as a nail in the coffin for the fake story. And then maybe his family gets paid off really well and they're really supportive. Literally, in this situation, anything is possible. And I feel like the people who come out and speak about their experiences and the things they saw are sometimes more credible than the big faceless entities like the alphabet soup that is our intelligence agency and stuff. Because, like...

You get somebody who's attaching their name to this, especially guys like Bob Lazar in the 80s, who literally just got drugged through the mud. You know what I mean? He put his name out there and was like, yeah, dude, I saw this. I did this work. These are things that happened. And people were like, dude, you're fucking full of shit. And his whole past was erased. All of his schooling has been removed. None of the schools have any record of him attending it, except one person who has a phone book of people who are in his class, and Bob Lazar's name is in there. That's the only thing. It's like a directory, and that's it. That's the only evidence that he was at this location at this time. Oh, damn. Transcripts gone. All that.

His time at Los Alamos with the rocket on the car? Gone. Doesn't exist. Like, all this stuff. Gone. Interesting. Yeah. It's because he went out and he was speaking publicly about S4 and Area 51. So he got killed? No. Because he made himself too publicly known to be killed. Yeah. So what do you do next is you make him seem discredible. Right. So exactly. They cut your legs out from underneath you so that you have... They're like, I went to MIT and graduated. I'm with a doctorate in physics. No, you didn't. And they're like, really? Let's see your degree. And you're like, well...

I had a storage facility it was broken into. And they're like, okay, cool, get your transcripts from the school. And that's literally, I mean, yes. He also, I mean, he described some security measures that they had there where like it was a handprint, fingerprint scanner and all this stuff. He described the box and what it looks like and how it works and how long it took. And then years later, some stuff came out about this working and about this being a thing. So he was able to accurately describe some inner workings of this facility. Which is what we use on our iPhones. Thumbprint scanners and all that. But these guys, these people are really putting their neck on the line in hopes that just somebody somewhere believes them. Yeah.

Does this kind of change what you guys feel about aliens? That's fair. You know I mean honestly like I think a lot of the movies shows stuff like that is also kind of like a light soft entry to let us be able to public be okay a little more about it and it's actually done well for so that's called predictive programming where they like plant ideas and movies and stuff like that and ease you into yeah, which is cool because I actually would rather get that and be honest I'd rather get that then being abruptly told that these monkeys did this and they were here at the Mayan times and this list have a blah blah blah like I had a knock you shit Yeah, you know, so I'd rather just like oh, you know what? Yeah, because ultimately if I do leave planet and I go to someone else's planet I am an alien. And so that's what they are. That's all they are. They don't have to be vicious. They don't have to be aggressive. Do you like audiobooks? I do actually like audiobooks. Get Chariot of the Gods. It was written in the 60s. Very cool. Because it talks about ancient aliens and stuff and past civilizations and biblical miracles. And so how the miracle had four faces and wings and all this stuff. And he was like, could it not have just been a plane with windows instead of faces? And it's got the wings.

You know what I mean? Like if you saw, if you were trying to explain a helicopter to an uncontacted tribe, or like you were to come down in a helicopter to meet an uncontacted tribe, give them an M16 and then get in your helicopter and fly away. How would they explain that? How would they rationalize that? So I feel what you're saying. There's a movie, I think it's called... Davey or Stood Still? No, like The Gods Must Be Crazy, I think it's called. And it's about like an uncontacted tribe. And the beginning shows a guy like flying an airplane over Africa. And he's drinking a glass Coke bottle and he throws it out the window. And it lands. And then this guy, like a tribal leader, like finds it. And he's like...

like takes it back and the whole base around the movie is like, they're being like, what the fuck is that? Trying to rationalize this thing. So just to finish this up real quick, the crash site's open to the public for viewing. Ranch tour started in June of 2018. The current owners of the two sisters are the granddaughters of the man who purchased the ranch from the Brazzles. So the guy bought Mac Brazzles Ranch and his granddaughters. He liked the name and that's why he bought it. And his granddaughters are...

doing tours of the Roswell crash site. Capitalism. And the ticket prices range from $65 to $250 a tour. That's how you make that family money, though. But that's what I'm saying. Everybody in this is making money on it. Everybody has their own slice of the pie. That's pretty much all I have for Roswell. Jesse's got some stuff for you after the break. Can I say one thing? Yeah. Since we're doing crazy new things, you're the host, and he's over here, and Alex's first thing, can I do something? What do you want to do? Can I say the outro before the commercial break? Yes. Look at your camera. Okay, it's a moment to shine. All right, guys. We're going to be right back. We're going to take a break. So come back, or we'll kill you.

You know the reason you're here is because you don't want to die and that's good because I want to kill you I got a second half story for you. It's a short one. We're rearranging things. As most of you know, if you're listening now, we took off the month of December to bring you this episode, which you should be. Oh, God, if you're not fucking listening to this on January 6th or after. If it's not there, I'm going to be really mad. Check your levels, Greg. I'm sorry. You talk a little differently than I do. I went through and... Thank you. Thank you for getting ahead of that. But this one we pulled from one of those episodes. But I'm really excited about this one because the introduction for Kelly G was a full episode. That doesn't exist yet. That will come. So this is going to be your guys' introduction to Kelly G. I think you got it. Were you here for a Kelly G episode?

Doesn't matter. We don't need to. Anyway. This brain don't remember shit like that, dude. Kelly G is one of the research assistants on the show. She is an all-star. She brought, she sent me, actually just today I received the second full episode write-up. So I'm super, for another subject. So I'm excited about that. This one I didn't do a title for, so it's just gonna be Roswell. Yeah, yeah. But this is Kelly G. Thank you so much, Kelly. Kelly G is our all-star research assistant and we appreciate everything she does. So this is the story of the disappearance of Ann Noblet.

Question number 11. Oh, shit. Are we still in this? In what year did Ann Knoblet go missing? In what year? Now, just stab at it. Bobby, if you get this, you tie it up. Yeah. All you got to do is be the closest. If you nail it, you take the lead. And question 14 is another year question. So someone is getting points on 14 regardless. Okay. So in what year did Ann Knoblet go missing? Alex, I think you had your answer right now. What'd you say? 1930. 1930. Bobby said?

I'm going to go with the same answer I gave from the first date. I must see if it gives you a little more love. 1963. 63. We'll get you the points. 250 to tie it up. And Noblit went missing in 1957. And this surely mispronounced name in the UK. You do this to yourself. Yes, we tied up now. Kelly, you call yourself a research assistant. Why doesn't this have a phonetical write-out? What's that? Like Carl on The Simpsons? All the tough words are spelled phonetically.

Kelly, I'm just kidding. You do an amazing job. It's nobody's fault but my own that I can't pronounce any names outside of California. Sacramento. I'm moving to the South next summer. In 1957, in Harpenden, UK, Ann Novelett was a non-problematic 17-year-old who, by all accounts, was well-liked by her peers. She had only been back in the UK for less than a year, and she had spent four years at a Swiss prep school. She was a student at Watford Technical College and wanted to be a nurse for children. Ann had finished dancing at the Lord's Hall on December 30th, and it has been said she was attending a rock and roll dance class. She left her friends and got on a green line bus after 6 p.m. after stopping by a grocery store.

Question number 12. She had stopped by the store to get an ingredient to take home for dinner. What was it? Was it A, carrots? B, mushrooms? C, onions? Or D, potatoes? Potatoes. She felt it from the depths of her soul. We always tell people to go with your gut. She loves potatoes. Who doesn't? You can literally do anything with a potato. I'm not going to lie to say that I know that other options are healthier.

But like, yeah, but it's about delicious. Like dinner. Like if you're going to dinner, potato. I'm going to go with, you know, I love mushrooms. Okay. So I'm going to go mushrooms. Well, that's gross. But 250 points for Bobby because yes, she was bringing home some mushrooms to have dinner with her family. They are healthier. So I knew it. I'm just going to tell you that she doesn't need to eat the mushrooms, Bobby. She was taking the mushrooms home for a family dinner and she was seen by an employee of her father's who was driving a motorized scooter near her bus stop. But Anne had about a quarter mile walk home with no sources of light down Marshall's Heath Lane. So she got off the bus.

She got to her destination on the bus, got off at its quarter mile walk down a road with no lights. And her dad's co-worker was like, oh, it's Anne. So there's a witness saying, OK, I saw her get off. Yeah. She didn't come home that night and her fairly affluent family alerted authority.

Authorities? Authorities. Her fairly affluent family alerted the authorities. There were extensive searches nearby, and they played clips at local theaters with her news story. Thousands of people searched, including an organized effort, including soldiers on New Year's Eve. Police did door-to-door fact-finding, and thousands of people gave statements to no avail. On January 31st, 1958, she was found in a Rose Grove wood by a man walking with his teenage brother and dog. She was lying on her back, fully clothed with her glasses, and her hands folded on her chest. What the? Question number 13. How far from her last known location was she found? Is it A, four to seven miles?

B, 2 to 500 feet. C, 1 to 3 miles. Or D, 4 to 600 yards. 4 to 7 miles. 2 to 500 feet. 1 to 3 miles. Or 4 to 600 yards. Hold on. Just so we're clear, this took place in the UK? In the UK. Why are we doing everything in Imperial? Damn. Freedom units, baby! I just wanted to make sure.

I say A. Because I don't know them. I do know them. Siri tells me all the time. I know of them. Okay, what do you guys got your answers? I say A. I went with C. C and A. So Alex says four to seven miles. Bobby says one to three miles so far away, right? Yeah, pretty far away.

Give Alex 250 points because she was found four to seven miles, depending on source. That's why I made every answer a range. Four to seven miles away from where she was taken. It is assumed that she was taken near her bus stop almost immediately after she got off the bus. There were signs of sexual assault and she was dressed, but her glasses were slightly askew and some items of clothing were backwards, indicating she didn't dress herself. It was said that the place she was found was two miles outside of the extent of the search. So the search of thousands of people only went out to...

two miles from where she was. The pathologist, Francis Camps, found that Anne's stomach were the same, the contents of her stomach were the same as the day she had last been seen. So like her family said, oh yeah, you know, she had this for breakfast this day, she was wearing this. She was killed that same day. Yeah, so when they find her and they do an autopsy, they see that the contents of her stomach. So you know that happened that day, she stopped digesting and everything. I have to like...

When you said they stopped after two miles and she was just outside that range. Well, they stopped after like five miles and she was seven miles. Oh, okay. I was thinking like, you know, the guy involved. They're like, okay, we're going to go check it. We're going to go to two and a half miles. He's like, well, better just make it an even two. Don't go out that far. Maybe another lost person. What makes me believe is like he knows how many miles he'll search. Yeah, but that wasn't the case. I was wrong. Yeah.

So the pathologist, what was I saying? I just misheard. Take the ale. But nobody got the mushrooms. No one got the mushrooms. Damn. The pathologist, Francis Camps, found that Ann's stomach contents again were the same as the day she had died. She had found out that she had been suffocated, and interesting to note later, to look back on, that it was most likely asphyxiation by natural causes, as there were no markings on her neck. So asphyxiation by natural causes, like a panic attack, or something like asthma attack, or carbon monoxide poisoning, anything like that, where there wasn't strain on your throat taking your...

airway, but there was some event in your body that caused that. It was planned. Yeah, I think there was something planned and I think it got out of hand. Like she had an asthma attack or a panic attack while being attacked. And it was like, you know, it was like the guy's like, I was just going to rape her and she died too. What the hell? You know, like it was that sort of seems like it could, but I don't know.

Speculation, objection, speculation. That's exactly what it is. And I mean, again, this is just what the pathologist has found after. Remember, we said she was found five months after. Damn. According to this article, those natural causes could have been an acute emotional excitement or severe mental strain. She was 300 yards from the road with no evidence of being dragged. As she was not petite, it was said someone would have needed to be strong to carry her that far. Her purse was near her body, but not strewn about. 30 shillings were found scattered nearby. So her purse was out. Nothing was taken out of it, but there was money like...

A little bit of money scattered nearby. It should be said at the time that the death penalty didn't exist in England, except in special circumstances, one being the furtherance of robbery. So I think we talked about this last time. The only way you could get the death penalty at the time was if you did it during the act of committing a robbery. So this was like, people thought that they were like, hey, look, we didn't take any money. We just did the kill. So it was like someone's way of covering their ass of not getting the death penalty was to leave some money behind. I didn't even rob her, but she didn't have any to begin with. There's no way they're going to believe it. I thought it was actually mine. I just wanted to make sure you guys knew. Now I'm in the hole?

Just tipped her. Yeah. So again, here it says it has been speculated this person may have been afraid of getting caught, but knew the loose change would save him or them from death penalty under the murder act. So here's the crazy part. Anne's body had evidence of being frozen solid. A nearby gamekeeper keeper said she couldn't have been there more than 24 hours or he would have seen her based on like how he.

Made his passes as the gameskeeper. He's like, I would have walked by that trail and I would have seen her there. Based on the growth of snowdrops and things under her body, experts thought she had been there for two weeks. They even made a replica of her body and put it in the woods for a length of time to see how long she could have been there. With every indication she died the day that she was taken, she would have had to have been kept cold to reduce decomposition. With this evidence, they go on to form the theory that she was kept somewhere, possibly refrigerated, for an extended period of time. What?

There's always the possibility of a cover-up or a police malfeasance, but no one can say the police didn't appear to try. They called in Scotland Yard, and they checked with the meteorological office and found that with the exception of one week, the temperatures were unreasonably warm, and this further backs up the refrigeration theory. So there was likely no way that she sat out and got frozen solid because of the weather, because beside one week during this period that she was missing, it wasn't cold enough for that to happen. It was unseasonably warm. So the theory is that she was tucked away somewhere, refrigerated or cold, and then dropped there. Damn.

Because this seemed to be the best lead, they interviewed the head of a company that ran freezer trucks in the area. He said that his drivers loaded and unloaded for themselves and they could easily go a month or two without anyone else seeing the inside of their truck. He also said the freezing could happen if someone put her in a bed with dry ice and tucked in the blankets. He didn't say this, but it also seems like a way of suffocating without neck markings as well. your carbon monoxide dioxide or however many carbon however many however many not oxygens that go in to make you die one of those things yeah so they interviewed and searched everything they could uh they could think of that would be refrigerated in huge radius to this day they so they were like all right um meat packing plants uh restaurants have big freezers uh you know this place this kind of place all the trucks that have freezers like we're gonna so they're going around and that's what we're saying is like yeah the police in a lot of cases we talk about like why didn't they just do this this is not one of those cases this seems like a lot of work was put in yeah answers to this question and um None were ever really brought up. To this day, they still haven't found anything that would lead to a murder conviction. In 1974, a local pig farm had a number of paranormal experiences. Door slamming or bursting open, feelings of being brushed past, a cat arching its back and hissing at seemingly nothing, and the actual ghost of a woman. One man who saw it remembered searching for her back in the 50s and claimed it was the ghost of Ann Noblin.

You like that? Well, there you go. I believe it. The last question. What's the score right now? It's tied. Oh, so this is it. Somebody is going to win right now because the closest to the answer gets 250 points. Remember, it's only Price is Right rules if you guys split the answer on opposite ends. So closest to the answer gets 250 points. We now let you get 1,000. Somebody's going to win right here. Question number 14. Years after the death, a group would go out and perform a seance to try to contact Anne. What year did this group perform the seance? When did they go out and do it?

This is for I love this dude. Yeah, I was kind of hoping for an artistic challenge But oh, yeah, cuz we had to get rid of the one we had yeah But I do I do love a good like punch out this has been a this has been back and forth Bobby got the got the lead there, and she took it back And so this has been it's been a good back-and-forth, which I love to see a good battle Don't look at me. You aren't getting anything from me, buddy. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. I'll give you answers 1983

Give Bobby 250 points. There it is. Because around the year 2002, a group went out to Marshall's Heath Lane and performed a seance. They claimed to make contact with Ann, and they alleged that she gave them the name of a murderer, a man that lived in Wipsnade. You know what's funny? Wipsnade. Look at my paper, and it actually says 1993, because I feel like they probably filmed it for a TV show. You know what I mean?

As far as I know, it's just a group of people that wanted to try to like, you know It had gone so long without any information coming out about it. They were like, you know, we gotta get something going here That was a close a crazy game. So that's a little bit more about the story and I'll We'll get you guys out of here and we'll get you your victory lap So in all the years since, some of the only rumors surrounding possible witness statements are as follows. Someone may have seen brake lights on Marshall C. Lane. Someone might have seen a black car near where she was found. A strong-looking man in a car near where she was found is also reported as being seen. A middle-aged man with horn-rimmed glasses may have been seen near where she was found. I feel like every crime committed in the 50s was a middle-aged man with horn-rimmed glasses. Yeah, well, that's because that was every man in the 50s. The only person ever arrested surrounding this murder was a guy named Walter Nunn, who prank called the Knoblet family and the family of the man who found her. Like, what a fucking asshole this guy is. So Walter Nunn had made some menacing calls and generally just wasted the police's time.

He was checked out and cleared of the murder. On January 5th, 1958, a young woman named Mary Creek was also murdered getting off of a bus. She was found in a ditch the next day, unfrozen, and her murder was never solved. She was beaten, so that's another difference between the cases, but they could be connected because they were so nearby in time and location. In February of 2017, there was a case review for this case, but so far, nothing has turned up. Sometimes police keep things a secret, so they can fact-check the criminals. You know, the whole, like, oh, they knew information that we hadn't given to the public yet. So there is still stuff, even though it's a...

you know, 60 year old case by now that they've, that they still have kept to themselves about it. So it's like, to me, I'm like, just fucking give it now. Let people help. You know, you haven't been able to over 60 years. I know that. I've crowdsourced this shit. I mean, web sleuths have solved a lot of crimes, man. How many podcasts have gone out and solved murders? A lot. You're not going to get that from us. It's more than one. I'm using the show for research. Don't. Don't. Yeah, don't.

So one of the pieces of information that some people believe that the police know is that they know where she was murdered. They say that they believe that they're aware of only two people that it could have been and two people who had put her body where it was found less than a day before she was found. Also, apparently a man known to Anne was questioned multiple times by police, but nothing has led to charges. With more than 65 years since her death, we are unfortunately no closer to finding out what happened to Anne. Real quick, bibliography for this one is...

The Watford Observer, strange.co.blogspot.com, reasonedcrimechronicle.com, thejournalnews.com, bbc.com slash news, flickr.com for some of the... Because Kelly G. rocks. She references things with photographs to make sure that they're correct. Truecrimelibrary.com and unsolvedmurders.co.uk. So thank you, Kelly G., for that. Yeah, thank you, G. Bobby? Kelly G.

You took the W today. How's it feel, man? You know, honestly, I was on the edge of my seat. Honestly, I thought she was going to beat me, dude. I thought she was going to destroy me here. It was a battle. Honestly, and that would have been okay. You know, I would have to take my L. But I'm definitely, I just love the excitement of the game. You're definitely seasoned. I'm definitely seasoned. You'll be back.

Redemption. Okay, redemption. Maybe take someone else out. I'm going to keep my W'd on. No, but thank you. Thank you so much, man. It was awesome. Absolutely. Alex, anything you want to throw out there at the end here? I had a good time. Anyway, really interesting to know all the extra details and to answer your question about the aliens. It did change a little bit just to do more research on it because I'm still curious. It's surprising sometimes how much information there is on stuff that you don't think too much about. Yeah. It has like computers worth of documents he can send you. Yeah, I was going to say I have all kinds of stuff, but this is like we today just...

Barely scratched the surface. Yeah, he's like... This is monumental, by the way. Yeah, exactly. She's being so nice to us. She's finally friends with Mo. Make sure to check us on the Instamediagrams. We're mostly on Instagram and TikTok. YouTube, if you're not seeing us on the show right now, you totally can. Go to YouTube.com, type in Cereal Chillers. Boom, there we fucking are. Threadless.com slash Cereal Chillers podcast for any of those soft goods you want. We got hoodies, guys. It's hoodie season. Get your hoodie. If you like to roam around in the t-shirt, get one of those too. It's all out there. Threadless.com slash Cereal Chillers podcast. Also, if you want hard goods, stickers right now is the only thing we got. Just go to CerealChillersPod.com. That's where you can find links to our Patreon where you can donate and be badass. Thank you.

Join our Discord. Also, a link to that on CerealChillersPod.com. If you want to mail us cool shit, P.O. Box 1229, Clovis, California, 93613. Remember, if it's dangerous, address it to Greg. If it's cool drugs, address it to both of us. Again, last time, CerealChillersPod.com for everything. It's all there. Greg, is there anything you'd like to add on the way out? My guy. No, man. I had a lot of fun getting to play host. Yeah. I think you did wonderfully. And really quickly.

We talked about, I think, before the season, like doing a Hella Greg episode in kind of a short format and putting those in the Serial Chillers feed. And then we were more like, why doesn't Greg just host an episode? And we're doing non-serial killers now. So that's the format you're going to see every now and again. Greg's going to get a wild hair and be like, yo, I'm hosting this one. I'm going to be like, fuck that. The subject matter from this episode has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I just started watching X-Files again. Except for the fact that it does. So keep sending Greg excellent sci-fi television so that he can get ideas to continue to bring us new episodes. Because, look, I'll bring the killers and all the crazy shit Greg will bring me.

dark creepy unsolved and otherwise mysterious cryptids yeah I mean listen I'll fuck with some cryptids we can co-host those because my boy we'll bring out some god damn attention maybe we'll bring you back for that whoa let's go I don't know I feel creeped out already you know alright any final thoughts guys that discord is super super cool guys the community is awesome seriously check out the discord they're very active Bobby has fun in there I love it I love it it really is awesome we're some real goddamn accessible people you know what I'm saying we're easy to get along with for the most part I said for the most part All right, then. Well, for Bobby, Namosany, Alex, and Hella Greg, I am Jesse. And remember, don't talk to strangers. Bye. There you go. I wouldn't talk to strangers anymore. And let's say a candy. No. Okay, what about, like, with a dog or a panda? I was going to say, hey, you want to come see the puppy that I have in my car? Fuck yeah. Yes, I do. Yes, I do.