Hello and welcome to the Life Group Leader podcast. Once again, I am your host Kirby Wood, the group's pastor here at Mirrors Irvine. And today I have with me our awesome co-host and community pastor, John Thomas. Hello everybody and also a fan of Kirby.
I'm just hanging out with Kirby basically, so she asked me to come and do this thing. I'm like, yeah, all day long. So happy to join you guys. I love it.
I feel like I've learned so much about, you know, sermon based questions and flow questions from you, obviously inherently from Kenton himself, preaching last weekend. And it's been really fun to do this together. So I'm really grateful for you, John. Yeah, absolutely glad to be with you guys.
Yeah, and also John, tell us a little bit about what's going on in your world. We're working on courses and some things. We're looking forward to Deep Dive Correct. Yeah, lots of great stuff coming up in the fall, for sure.
Many of you out there have probably already done some of the deep dive courses that we have on offer, whether that story of God or image of God. And we've got a brand new one that's going to be launching out in October called The Theology and Emission of God. So we're really, really excited about that one. Yeah.
Our senior pastor Eric Giger is going to be teaching a good number of those sessions happening on Wednesday nights starting on October 5th. So you'll be hearing a lot more about that and some of the other courses that we have rolling out this fall. And we'll talk more about the implications of groups. We, the sermon based content.
We often say is the bread and butter. But also to make use of some of these other courses that we have occasionally throughout the year. So you'll hear more about this one. This would be one for sure.
We want to invite you and encourage you to join. It's going to be great. Oh, I love that, John. I think, like you said, we always love that people are stepping through the sermon based content.
That's kind of the default for so many of our groups. But I love if you guys start to think, OK, October is an opportunity for us that we can maybe jump into deep dive. That would be really fun. And we would love to encourage you guys to think that through as you're planning out in your fall as you're launching out of summer.
So we hope that you guys are having a great summer. And you're enjoying the Sully spirit series. And I know my group was able to talk through the sermon line questions last week. But once again, we're like, OK, maybe we won't meet this week.
But darn, that means we're missing such a great another aspect in teaching of who the Holy Spirit is to us. So I'm excited about this week. We have Doug Fields teaching. This is exciting.
But also, it's challenging in a new way, right? As we think about this topic as the Holy Spirit, he grieves. Talk to me a little bit about what you see here with the sermon as to expect, John. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a word we don't use a whole lot.
And it's kind of a word that needs unpacking and explanation. What does that mean that the Holy Spirit grieves? I mean, there's so much just even in that theologically that the Holy Spirit has emotions. Like we don't think about that.
I think we think of detached deities somewhere off of the clouds. And obviously, we see Jesus. Jesus mourns and grieves. And he weeps.
And what we understand is the spirit is the spirit of Jesus. And so we see Jesus has the full display of emotions. That's sometimes a tricky thing for us to think about the Holy Spirit has emotions that he can be grieved, just like you would grieve over a loss in your relationship, or you would grieve over a friend making a poor decision. Like the Holy Spirit in the same way, greeves when we wander, greeves when we make decisions that are contrary to the truth of his word in our lives.
So it's really interesting to think about it theologically. What do you mean? The Holy Spirit grieves and has emotions. But then to think about it personally and practically.
How have I experienced that? So I'm looking forward to you guys to unpack in this great passage in this discussion this week. I feel like this series is becoming like a puzzle. It's like this beautiful picture that we're putting together.
The Trinity is such a mystery at times to us. And the spirit even more so, we're getting to learn so much about who the Holy Spirit is. And I love this really. I feel like it's truly personifying a lot of who the Holy Spirit is, even in my own heart, in my own mind.
But as for our group, it's like, OK, he's guiding. He's teaching. He's counseling. He's comforting encourages.
And now I was like, oh, talk about another emotion. I did not see coming, right? Grieving. Wow.
I love the way you said that, John. That's awesome. So as we look to this discussion, you guys, and how we can in this conversation start to equip you, as always, I would encourage you guys to pray as first and foremost to set the tone. And that way you can kind of this fun, leaning question, as I talked about last week.
It doesn't feel so random. But it really feels like, OK, this is setting us up for a part of the conversation. So the first question for you, Leanin, says, what are some silly and annoying habits you know you should probably quit? And I love the way you said that, John, that's awesome.
And I'm looking at my own hands right now, biting my nails. It's so embarrassing. I've seen it. It's bad.
It's so gross. I have tried to break it all my entire life. I get my nails done all the time. It's an intervention.
But right now, even if I'm a little stressed about a couple of work things, I mean, truly, my nails will fall off. I mean, those of you that know Kirby, she is nothing but a ball of enthusiasm and excitement and vision and energy and everything else. And sometimes it's like, what do I do with it all, right? Exactly.
It's a question. If you don't want to answer this question, pro tip, right? Ask somebody who knows you really well in your group. Sometimes that might be a spouse.
Hey, why do you think those annoying silly habits are? Yeah, so that's the direction that we're getting people down with this conversation. So it's meant to be playful, fun, and you know the pro tip here, too, is the more you get people talking at question number one, the more they're going to talk all the way down through. So try not to let anybody off the hook.
Have fun with it. Be playful. Don't go too deep in dark, serious place during the weekend. But have some fun with this question today.
And maybe you go first. That keeps it really light. How even I just said, OK, thinking about nail biting or something like that that comes really easy sets this level sets everybody to know, OK, we're not going to get kind of crazy with this. That's right.
That's cool. Great. So then of course, then we're going to readjust and kind of structure the group to look down at God's word. Everybody's got their Bibles, pull them out, reading Ephesians.
And we're going to call out something specific. It says here, what do you learn about the antidote to the grieving spirit? Talk to me a little bit about where you feel like that question was coming from, John. Yeah, so what do you learn about the antidote to grieving the spirit?
So what are things that we need to be mindful of that will help us to prevent us from grieving the Holy Spirit, knowing that we will, that we do, that I know I do on a daily basis. But there's some really good handles here in this passage that you want to draw out. Remember, look down is we call it look down because it's literally look down at the scripture, observe what's being written in the scripture. And so there are some things that you'll see.
I mean, the first thing we're not off the bat is says, don't grieve. God told the spirit. So there's one thing. Don't do it.
Don't do it. But I'm so glad it's not that. It's not that. It's not down to your moralistic.
Sure. You know, biting your nails and making it so that you can't do it in your own strength. But he goes on to say, right, you were sealed by him. So OK, I'm his.
Like I'm known by him that he accepts me, that he chooses me, that his grace is with me. And it goes on down to say in verse 32, forgive one another, just as God has forgiven you, just as God forgave you. So part of the antidote is knowing that I'm his, that I'm secure in who he is, that I'm already forgiven, that I'm sealed, meaning like I'm secure. The Holy Spirit is this down payment on my secure eternal salvation with him, that I'm not earning.
I'm not striving that even when I grieve, it doesn't mean I've lost the spirit's presence in my life. And so that's really helpful because that sets us up to know that we're not again, we're not earning. We're not striving. But at the same time, to be aware, don't read the whole like the aware, be sensitive, be in tune with the spirit to know when you've wandered.
And so draw those things out and a little bit more within that passage. But the encouragement is again, look down at scripture. What's God's word say? What is highlighting in your own heart and your spirit as you read the scripture?
Yeah, I think too. I think the scripture as people are trying to call out the things that are sticking out to them and the back and forth of the don't and also the forgive. I love the kind of juxtaposition, but the coupling there, it's both of those things. Even in the overview, I kind of using that as a guide for this discussion.
It's written here, we are to cooperate with him and allow him to impact our lives. And that also I think personifies the Holy Spirit again. We're, it's a person and I am my person and we're trying to cooperate together to live out the fullness of who God is calling us to be. That's it, absolutely.
And so we grieve the Holy Spirit when we don't live in such a way that shows that we are his. You know what? It's, you could talk about the marriage analogy, the phone calls that I get and that sometimes you sit down with couples and there's a grieving that happens when somebody abandons the relationship. There's a grieving that happens when somebody acts contrary to their identification as a husband or as a wife.
But it's the same in that, in that the Holy Spirit grieves, not because he's angry at, but because he loves us because he's like, you are mine, yours and the grieving is a, it's a natural effect of a loving relationship of the course of the Holy Spirit grieves because he's within us and he loves us as a father grieves and the child wanders, you know. And so you want to keep that in the forefront because you can easily steer towards moralistic behavior, burning, striving, proving, all of that stuff. The context here again is, man, we are his and we are loved by him. And so of course, we wander, he grieves.
Yeah, of course. And I think also a lot of different people grieve in a lot of different ways. And so when we think about the grieving of those in our lives and maybe that we've experienced, it could be maybe tempting to project our own fleshlier human emotions on him. It's like, this is a pure, holy righteous grief.
You know, that is, that is like you said, it's not angry or shaming or what have you. It's just, it's just burdened with the love that the Holy Spirit has for us to be more into and it like him. And so we are, but as we move on, you know, we're looking at the scripture, we're hopefully having this rich conversation. You're really helping everyone start to engage and think, okay, wow, like I don't want to be doing that, right?
I want to be inspired by this text. And then where in the world, that's a kind of a lookout. We're looking out of the world. Where do we see this working well?
Where do we see it not working well? So the question here is how would you describe a person who lives secure and who they are? Oh, I love that. Thinking about the positive, right?
Thinking about where is this going right? You know, and how about a person who lives on secure of who they are? Where have you seen that? Right.
And again, that's just to get you creatively thinking about what does that look like when somebody is secure and you might have stories, examples of what that person looks like and what it looks like when somebody's not secure, you know, somebody's not secure. They're competing, they're striving, they're trying to play somebody else's narrative. They feel like they always have to earn, improve, improve themselves. And so, you know, those are the kind of things that you're going to want to talk about because again, it's just getting you to like creatively interpret and see the scripture at play in our world around us.
And then of course we turn into the look in from the right. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I love. And then I like how natural this can really flow to look in because, you know, so often as we talk about who might be insecure or secure in our lives, we're going to naturally think, am I insecure or am I secure?
So that's where, but I would try to hold attention there as much as you can, like group leaders to let people make as many observations about the out so that way when you get to the look in, it can really be intrinsic, as the word I'm moving forward. Yeah, without it being too sharp, right? So where in your life do you experience a pull towards your old nature? I love how kind and gentle that question is, but also it can also be really opening for people.
Right. So it's a vulnerable question. Yeah. Right.
I mean, it's kind of worded lightly, but if you really impact it, I mean, it's a, it's a vulnerable question. Even in your groups, I mean, I know that we hope that many of you've already, you've had these conversations as discussion. But every time I'm poised with that question around a table with others, there's a sense of like, ooh, what, to what level do I share? Do I share the surfacey thing or do I really get to the root of what's behind the action that I'm struggling with?
You know what I mean? And so the longer in community with people, the more that they'll see and they'll know that and they'll see your blind spots, the ones that you can't see. But this is a question of vulnerability, but healing comes in vulnerability. And so you want to be honest and as Cordy already said, with all these things, you set the tone and you model it as a leader.
So where do you experience that culture, old nature? Where was that struggle, that wrestle? I mean, you could ask it, where do you sense that you might be grieving the Holy Spirit? What does that feel like?
What are those things that are leading to leading towards that? And have people wrestle with those things? Yeah, that's good. And I love the encouragement that you're giving.
Don't be afraid to even call it out. I know that we can, I know that sometimes we can give the surface level answer. Let's try to push in a little bit more today. As we really think about the grief aspect of the Holy Spirit, that it's out of love, right?
That this is a loving space in this circle, in this group, in our relationship with God. It's not one of condemnation or guilt or shame. We want to lovingly pull each other back to our true identity. And then what do you need to be reminded of today?
I love a good today question. I think that kind of gets to the practical and almost that live it out, right? That's right. And then this is a good drawback to the look down question, right?
Pay attention as a leader to how people answer that look down question, for what things that they draw out of the passage. Because as a leader, this is a good point to remind the person, hey, the things that you saw, like I wonder, like, what would that look like for you to be reminded of that? Like, you highlighted those things that will look down. Like, why do you think that is?
And what would that look like for you to really receive that and to live that out, would then even take it a step further of, man, if you really receive that, like, what kind of an impact would that make? Like, how could things be different in your walk with the Lord, in your relationship with others? Because people often observe what they want for themselves, right? So things will be highlighted in scriptures that they have a desire towards.
The Holy Spirit does that. He eliminates things for us. So pay attention to how they answer to because it'll usually be connected to how they answer the look in question, too. And then there's more opportunity to explore that with them in your conversation.
That's so good. I love that. I love the idea of paying attention to how that goes throughout the conversation. I think that's a really, that's a key to a successful root facilitator.
If you call back to your great root facilitator, if they were paying attention to things that were happening in the beginning of the conversation or even weeks before and how that's building, right, to this point. So, you know, I hope that you guys are able to spend some time also the end praying for one other and speaking God's truth over you. You know, when we have those vulnerable moments and we also are going to be burdened with our old nature and how we may have grouped the Holy Spirit, we want to remind ourselves of the truth of who we are that he has forgiven us and we get to stand in full confidence that he has covered it all. So don't forget to encourage and steal your time, you know, with prayer, with truth, with scripture, pull out of the true identity bookmark.
I know Jared pulled that on stage a couple of weeks back, but that's all that stuff is still applicable in this time. Absolutely. It's going to be a great week though, man. I had a chance to see a little bit of Doug's outline.
It's going to be awesome. You're not going to want to miss this. And then of course after this week, we've got our senior pastor Eric Geiger is back, which we're really excited for. We're going to start part two of this series.
The Holy Spirit is such an expansive topic that we have to do. Part one and part two series, the Spirit of God, and then we're going to turn towards the Spirit of God in you and he's going to be teaching four weeks on a row in a row on that. So don't miss that. It's going to be amazing.
Awesome. You guys will we're praying for you and we hope you have a great week. God bless.