The Unholy Trinity, and Why Jesus Has Left the Building: A Discussion with Dr. Dave Miles (Part 3)

Matt and Jeremy continue their conversation with Dr. Dave Miles Founder of Vital Church Ministry and explore what Dave calls "the unholy trinity" plaguing many churches: idolatry, conflict, and power. With the warmth of pastors rather than clinical consultants, they unpack how these issues repeatedly surface in struggling congregations.Dave shares a story that perfectly captures church idolatry—an elder deeply troubled by a moved pulpit on Easter Sunday—illustrating how physical objects and traditions often become more sacred than the mission itself. Beyond this unholy trinity, Dave explains two additional challenges: "hypostatic disunion" (when institutional structures overshadow vision) and theological drift into mere moralism. This shift toward practical, self-help Christianity has created what he calls "shallow spirituality" in many American churches.The conversation takes a fascinating turn toward family systems theory, exploring how transitional pastors must maintain a non-anxious presence while facilitating difficult changes. When leaders question long-established patterns, anxiety naturally rises within congregations, requiring both compassion and courage to address effectively. Dave emphasizes that their approach isn't about organizational reengineering but shepherding people "for whom Christ died."Looking to the future, they candidly discuss the sobering reality of 15,000 churches closing annually and 50% of pastors retiring within five years. This "winnowing" process, while painful, reflects Jesus' warnings in Revelation about removing lampstands from unfaithful churches. Yet amid these challenges, the conversation concludes with profound hope—reminding listeners that the Father's invitation always remains: "Turn back to me because I love you and I have all of my riches waiting for you."Listen to the first Part of our discussionListen to the second part of our conversationLearn more about Vital Church Ministry and get help for your congregation. Ready to explore church renewal in your context? Connect with us at flourishcoaching.org or email [email protected] to discover how our team can help your ministry flourish wherever God has called you.Support the showPlease connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube. If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.