The White House

the dead of night as people sleep. That's when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three, dark things take power. We like to call it the supernatural hour.

A whole supernatural hour. We took a week off because COVID has struck the team. Not really. Sort of.

It was, uh, Lurch had to pick up some extra hours at work because COVID struck his work. Yeah, so the trickle down. So we're not trying to be a regular. We just are because COVID is fault.

COVID makes everything sucky. But yes, because of the extra hours that work, Lurch, work is lurching. We, we, uh, he won't be here with us this week, unfortunately, because of the extra shifts he has to pick up to cover for people that have COVID at his job. So we didn't want to keep you guys waiting too long for an episode.

So we are bringing you on now. Um, it should be a good one. We're talking about ghosts. Really?

I never thought I could talk about that for so long. No, I know. It's been a month. Um, because of COVID, dun, dun, dun.

I don't know. But yes, this is our show. Listen to it. Listen to Dia and talk about residential investigations.

Let's take care of business first. Let's go down the way. Listen to Don talk about the business. Um, our, our dinner that we had planned for what would be Friday the 13th got canceled because of COVID.

So we did present a, uh, a zoom web meeting, um, where we talked about the things that we did during the year, um, both from an app sent a WISP standpoint. Um, we'll probably see if we can make that available somehow on one of our web pages, if you guys are interested in seeing that. Um, it went well and lots of people attended on the zoom. Yes.

You know, zoom kind of sucks in a way, but I'm glad that we have it in this day and age because, um, any get together is better than I'll get together. I think, yeah. So in person's always best, but I figure zoom is better than, you know, staring at your ceiling for nine months on end. And we do have some things in the works for January, what is it, 8th and 9th?

And December actually. Don't forget December. Well, December. That's coming first, right?

Yeah. I think you should talk about December before January. Okay. She's like that.

Okay. Words of Haley Mills, let's get together. What do you say? Uh, in December, we are, um, as, as a apps WISP team, encouraging people to donate to the Utah food bank.

Um, we'll see if we can get some links up onto our web pages, um, for donations there, to help support the community. It's kind of a tough month with COVID to do in person activities, but there are things we can do to help people out that are in need help. And so we thought, as a supernatural hour WISPs and apps group, we encourage our listeners to donate to the Utah food bank. So we'll get some links up for you.

Yeah. And then in January, hopefully the Utah COVID restrictions will lighten up so that we can do our, our investigation there, but we're gonna stay positive and we'll have more information for that. We're tentatively scheduled, assuming that we can do it with COVID, where COVID is over January 8th and 9th should be a Friday Saturday. Okay.

It'll be, it's going to be a place, well, it's a place we've investigated before a number of years ago and it'll be really exciting. It's in downtown. So warehouse in downtown Salt Lake. Yes.

Um, if you've been to it, it's awesome. We've not been able to go to it for quite some time because they had some structural issue, not structural, but, um, plumbing issues, and it took them a while to get fixed. How many times I have scheduled this location for just our team, because there's a lot of members on our team that have never been to this location before. And it was literally like every time the day before I was supposed to go, they got canceled because one of the times they were removing, they found asbestos in the building and they had to remove it.

And the next time it was literally the day before the pipes burst and they had to fix the plumbing and they got it fixed. So I scheduled it again and guess what? The pipes burst again and I just got to the point where I've decided the entities and spirits in this building did not want me to go back. Yeah.

I know that you have, I mean, you booked it several times years ago when we first started and I know you've been trying to, and actually it was kind of a fluke one day we were driving up to Salt Lake for something. I thought, I wonder. And so I called the guy that's in charge and I just said, well, I didn't call him, I texted him. I just said, Hey, um, you're building, can we get into it?

And he's like, yep, it's good. We were actually just there a couple nights ago and he sent me some pictures and some EDPs and I was like, sweet. So it was kind of a kind of an on the fly thing, but I was super excited that it's available and I hope it stays available. So maybe with you being the one that scheduled the investigation, it will work because every time I do it, it's like no.

So you just have to pretend like you don't know about it. So you don't jinx it. I don't know about what exactly. I don't know what you're talking about.

Well, that's the one if you're like out there for a minute. Yeah, if anybody has been following us or investigating with us, you know, from the beginning, this is a place that actually wallips to him pretty good in the early years. So you've got some history with that place. Yeah, we go way back.

You're going back. Not necessarily like five, six years ago, we go back that far. Not necessarily. You guys aren't the best of advice.

We have good times, but it's a really active place to go. It was the best of times for them and the worst of times for me. Yeah, it sucked for for, you know what, I thought it was funny is when that investigation was over after everything that happened, I heard the story of the dead bird without a head in the basement. And even with everything that I went through in this building, I was upset that we got a picture of the bird.

We did get that awesome picture. I think it's on our website, the wisps.org. There was some picture of the curtain in the basement. And that thing was like warped.

And I believe we picked out like eight different faces in that photo alone. Yeah. And I think if you go to wisps.org and go to media and then slide down to where it says photos or pictures, it's there. You just have to scroll down.

And we've circled on there where the faces are. So there's a picture without the circles and then there's the pictures with the circles. And that's one of my favorite pictures actually. When we do anytime we do presentations, I'll usually use that one because it's a it's a cool picture.

So I think that's the business. We've got some other things in the works that we're thinking about doing or wanting to get done. But we need to figure out the COVID thing. Yeah.

So all right on to investigation. So since we've last podcasted, we've had two, one was actually some close friends of mine. They just gave me a call one day. And they had just a lot of activity.

They had pictures that would fall off their wall motion in the home security cameras and not motion that they could see, but just you know, the home security would just alert them there's movement in your house. And so the guy would run home from work and everything would be fine. They would feel a presence in your kitchen area. It's a married couple.

And one of the clients was Dutch. And he suspected that one of these entities was his father. And so, you know, we asked and sure enough it was. And so we actually had the man ask his father questions in Dutch because he was getting a little better answers.

The father did understand English, but he seemed to respond better in Dutch. So we let him do it in Dutch. Anyway, long story short because... Sorry, you're going to tell them about the questions and how you're answering the questions.

Give them a little information. Okay. So we were doing the Dowsy Nrons. And again, like we talked a little while ago about the lady we did in Spanish.

I don't know Dutch either. I've been to Holland and I learned a few words, but not enough to understand what this guy was saying. In fact, I don't know that I think I understood when he said papa because papa sounds kind of like... Like papa.

So I'm like, hey, he's addressing his dad. So again, I'm sitting there holding the Dowsy Nrons and nothing. I mean, nothing for me. The Dowsy Nrons, yes, no, yes, no.

And at a certain point, you're getting relevant answers that make sense. And he's like, yeah, I'm like, all right. So again, that was kind of cool. So I've dealt with two different languages.

I don't know. These are some pretty good friends of mine. So, and with anybody, it doesn't matter if you're a complete stranger, we don't like to divulge too much information. And this one was pretty personal between a father and son.

And they'd had in his early years a little bit of a falling out. And basically by the end of the investigation, after all was said and done, they were able to reconcile a little bit, get past a few issues, you know, that both the father and the son had. It was kind of heartwarming to see some old hurts addressed and people get some past the sinist understandings. But also in this home, the husband of the client said, you know, there's a spirit in here that's really playful.

It would grab their feet at night. And they said, the impression I got from them is it wasn't so much scary as it's kind of startling. And why are you doing this? No way after some investigation, we determined that it was a female Native American.

She kind of likes to keep watch over not only the property, but this couple has two children and she likes children. She never had the opportunity to have children herself. And so she's kind of in a protective, semi-parental mom kind of a role. And I think all the spirits ended up staying.

I think think everybody was happy. We determined that the dad was just trying to get the attention of the son so that he knew that he was there and trying to, you know, get his attention so that they could reconcile. But that was kind of fun. And the clients were good with the same.

It hadn't been a problem, it hadn't been a dark or entity. They just had some things missing and a pitcher was falling off the wall. And they weren't afraid. I didn't get the impression that they were afraid.

They just wanted to know what and why and try to get it to stop to a certain degree because it might break the pictures. So the other one we did was just a couple nights ago. And this was an interesting one. The client sent me a couple little clips from her video surveillance of orbs.

And she actually sent me quite a few. She sent me probably seven or eight. And of the seven or eight, two or three of them, I thought, I think that's a bug. But some were definitely orbs.

And when it comes to orbs, as Tim can attest, if you see them in pictures, we usually throw them out. Tim, what are your thoughts on photo orbs? They're ghosts. No, orbs, when I first started investigating, I was all about the orbs and the pictures and my videos.

And the more I did this, the more I learned, I kind of stopped leaning towards ghost orbs as evidence. I was actually telling someone about this last night in a video game that I've been playing recently. It's called Fasmophobia. Fasmophobia is literally the fear of ghosts.

But it's a game on Steam, on the computer, where you have a group of up to four people and you've got all of your equipment and stuff. And then you go into the house with your K2 meter and your spirit box or parabolic mic or whatever. Oh, it's got you bad. We need to get John more actual investigations.

And I've been playing this nonstop for like a week. You go in and you try to figure out what the ghost is. And one of the pieces of evidence that you can get is a ghost orb. And I was actually telling my friends last night, I'm like, that's not legit evidence.

Like, I know it is for the game, but most of the time an orb is going to be dust and people will be like, well, my house is clean. And that doesn't matter. Everybody's going to pick up any little trace of dust that might be flowing through your house. And usually when we see that, it's going in the way that the air is flowing when you have like your AC on or your heater on.

If it's got a very, um, discernible pattern that the orbs are going in, chances are it's dust or, and sometimes you might see something erratic. And a lot of times it's a bug like moss are really good at looking like orbs and sore flies and it's just there their wings and other things on their body reflect them. I just, I mean, there's so many variables when it comes to orbs that prove that it's not a spirit to get an actual one that's a legit orb on video or photo is my opinion very rare. I have seen orbs just with my eyes without without the use of equipment.

That I think is more likely, but again, you can't prove that you saw it. You just have to kind of go off of it. Right. So where I met with orbs is pretty much where you are.

If you send me a picture and there's an orb in the picture, I'm going to say that's really cool. And for your sake, I hope it's paranormal, but I'm not going to say it's paranormal because like Tim said, it could be reflection. It could be a bug. It could be.

There's a word that I can't think of right now, but just some little, you know, photography anomaly, but if once flare to it could be a once flare. There's so many variables. Right. But in a video, what I'll do if I'm at a home and I'm doing an investigation, I'll turn the video on and every how no matter how clean you keep your house, there's usually dust.

And so you can kind of see the dust flow, you know, you turn, you know, you keep going until you can see dust flow, you watch where the dust flow is. And then if an orb comes and goes in a direction that is not a bug and by not a bug, you know, straight over and down or, you know, that I would give some some credibility to. Or if it manifests like in the middle of the room, as usually a bug, you'll see them start on one side camera and like maybe go half way and go back or they'll follow some sort of zigzag and a lot of times bugs will make kind of a cigar shape and not, you know, not a circle. And so as I'm looking at these videos that she sent, I don't know about a third of them, I thought, no, that's a bug, that's a bug, that's a bug.

But she had just enough that moved in such ways that I thought, hmm, and then she had one was probably one of the later ones that she sent. And all of them came from the same area. So it's like, it was from the same security camp. She had a wise security camp.

And she was recording. And they all, but every, not so much the bugs, but the majority of the orbs all came from the same direction and went the same direction. And then in one of them, kind of off to the right hand side, there's probably eight to 10 that just come right at you all at the same time. It's like, that's not bugs.

I'm sorry. And completely different flow than everything else. And I'll get to see if I can get permission from her to put this up on the website and Tim, I'll show you this in a little bit. But it's like, I don't think that's bugs.

And so we would have gone out anyway, but it was really interesting. So she was a skeptic and she said, I don't think this is really the thing. My sister told me to call you. So I'm calling you.

So we went over and she didn't really have a whole lot of activity. The daughter had some things in her room that were thrown, some things that were tipped over. They did have a missing laundry pamper. Yeah, they missed missing laundry hamper for the point that she actually had called the condo management area to talk about this, you know, security and things that people come in and taken it kind of thing.

And it's like, you know, and she's trying to think out, why would somebody steal my my laundry hamper and leave the TV and stereo. There's people out there. There's those fetish people. So after doing an investigation, we found out that the daughter had played with the Ouija board in the friend's house, but the spirit that they brought through had opened up a golf ball sized portal in her bedroom.

So we had a we had to talk about it. And she was cute. We teased her all night long and hopefully she had fun and doesn't think I'm a jerk. She was smiling the whole time.

So I think we're good. But hopefully she won't play with Ouija boards anymore. Don't play with Ouija boards, good bad stuff. We cleansed two mirrors.

One was a portal and one just had some just a lot of energy on it. And then the most interesting thing that I to me was upstairs in the kitchen and the way this apartment was laid out, the kitchen was on the middle floor on the middle floor, but it was like two floors above ground floor. But there was a there was a big portal in there and it was like a major thoroughfare. But where this portal was was right above the living room.

And it was exactly where these orbs were coming down and going out. And we determined that it was, you know, through the investigation that it was like this, a major hub and it had a conductor per se, you know, that kind of kept guard. It was a good portal, but it was kind of a major portal. So we left that one open because they said we shouldn't close that one.

And then the grandmother of the homeowner was there and they wanted to be in spirit. And she just didn't want to pass. She was a little bit afraid of death and just wanted to stay and hang out. There was also two male spirits and a female spirit that were just there.

They weren't one was kind of cantankerous, but not bad, not, you know, the level of tungsten, you know, these people don't want you here. And they all three of them just said, you know, piece out butterflies and they left. It wasn't even one of those, you know, where you have to help escort them out. It was like, hey, they don't want you here.

But the interesting thing, there was there was the homeowner that was, you know, she didn't believe in ghosts. And she had her sister there, which is the sister that made her call us. And then the daughter who's actually quite sensitive and she was a believer and then the son who was skeptical. And by the time we left, the son was like, you know, I think there's something here.

Now granted, the son was like 13 years old. So it was a lot of grunting, but he was smiling by the end. And then the homeowner was like, you know what, like, I think I'm a believer. So that wasn't, that wasn't interesting.

They saw his face. So they were a believer. Mm hmm. Hey, who are the monkeys?

Whoa, I don't think we even got the reference. Was it the monkeys? Yes. I listened to the Smash Mouth version.

That's a much, much fewer version. Okay, so just in case you missed that, we are a lot older than Tim. Only by 40 years combined. They're not that much older.

Yes. So I have some sad news that I have to tell you. Well, being that this is coming out today, Wednesday the 18th of November, we're in November, November, yes. Unfortunately, last Friday, Friday, the 13th was the last day that Family Tree Restaurant was open.

They are closed down for good. They are officially closed. Leslie is trying to sell the restaurant off. So she can retire and she's just she's ready to move on with a physical realm, not the spiritual realm.

Yeah, physical realm. Yeah. She just she wants to enjoy her retirement doesn't want to have to worry about the business anymore. So they've officially closed and there will no longer be investigations there.

Unfortunately, for everybody that's listening, fortunately, for me, I got in the weekend before and was one of the last few people that got to investigate before they closed down. It was very interesting. They had actually cleared out the basement. There was nothing in it.

I've seen pictures. No, I've heard that Lucy is pissed. She was hoping in a different corner. She normally was in the corner that was on when you go down the stairs on the left hand side.

She was on the right hand side. So but I even like when I got there, I FaceTimed with Randy and she told me I could feel the energy was different, but she told me Lucy standing in the other corner. And the spirits, they were upset more about the fact that was cleaned, but they don't really seem to care too much that the building is going to be sold to somebody else. So do they have a buyer?

I think they have a line up. I don't know if they've officially closed on it yet, but they are working on trying to sell the building. And the new owners, I don't know. I mean, I did put up on Facebook if you didn't see it.

I'm willing to take donations of $400,000 so I can buy a haunted building. It may or may not be family tree. It's probably going to be family tree. If I had that kind of money, I would love to buy that building.

But unfortunately, yes, it's they've closed down and there will no longer be investigations there. Well, unless we can sweet talk the new order, then let's say maybe we'll see. We'll find out. Maybe we'll have to do some serious sweet talking.

So don't hold out hope. Yes, there's there's still don't whatever you do. Don't hold out that. Don't hold out.

Don't lose hope. Hold on to your hope. Hold on for dear life. I clean my bathroom just a few minutes ago before we started podcasting and I breathe into much bleach and now I'm like super tired.

Like really tired. I wasn't tired before the bleach and now I'm tired. And this is why we say no alcohol or drugs on an investigation. It's your judgment and your ability to do things.

So we're gonna have to say no drugs and alcohol in the investigation and don't clean your bathroom before you come. Yeah, don't clean your bathroom. Don't sniff bleach before you come on an investigation. Someone like super tired.

So that probably won't be the first stupid thing I say. We'll see if it makes you super tired. That's definitely something you don't want because you don't want to investigate when you're tired because again, you're not fully there cognitively and you could open yourself up for something that you don't want. So that's that's how the sniffing bleach ties into the paranormal.

See how good I am. Very good. Sometimes only on the weekends. Well, I'm sad.

I don't do that. I'm but I'm holding onto my hope that we can sweet talk to you. Me too. It's not easy.

How could you not let people I don't know. Maybe you get one of those. I mean, there's a lot of places that have been on TV here in Utah. They don't let people in just because they don't.

They claim one thing. I've heard about some places where they say, you know, we don't want a lot of people coming in here. We don't want to investigate because we don't want to start the ghost and then you find out they're running the road investigations, which is fine. They don't the business.

They can do whatever. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of places here and we've run across it before with those places. You're like, wow, this is haunted. Can we investigate?

And they're like, no, it goes down real going. So if you get like a really skeptical person that doesn't leave the paranormal then you know, we could go out and sit in the parking lot and talk to Lucy from our car. I can talk to Lucy from here if I wanted to. I don't want to.

I just mean the general public. In case of me wondering, because this question did come up on the investigation, just because the building is being closed down or whatever doesn't mean the spirits are going to just like, okay, we're moving on. Like, we'll stay. They'll still be there.

That's just going to help works. Even if the building was torn down for whatever reason, it doesn't necessarily mean that the spirits are relieved because usually spirits are attached to the land itself and not the building. Like they might be attached to an object in there. And if like that object is removed, they might go with it.

But as far as like, if it gets torn down or whatever the spirits are still going to be there, they're not just going to be like, oh, no, it's coming here anymore. Peace out. Because Lucy is in charge of that portal. She keeps that portal open.

She lets things in and out that she wants to let in and out and keeps things out that she doesn't want in. And the portal is still going to be there. We'll still be there. Yes.

And so the skinwalker and all of the other spirits that are in that building, they're not going anywhere. So speaking of ghosts and haunted buildings, I think we have another haunted building that has ghosts in it that we can talk about. So it is a member. It's very big.

It's very big. It's white. And it's November. It's the year of the election.

And when an election is, we won't even get into politics. We have a president. We are going to talk about other presidents because the White House is famously haunted. It is.

It's located on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, DC. Yes, it is. In case you didn't know. Have you ever been there?

No. I mean, either. But as you said, it's a puzzle. Wow.

So not very far. I've been to Boston. I think that's closest to the White House. That's pretty.

That's a lot closer than I got. It's a lot closer than El Paso. Yeah, it's very much closer. So not only, and I don't remember what was that said this because it's the one thing I didn't write down, but it was a journalist of some note.

He said the White House has the best stories and I'd call them the most verified. So, you know, because incredible people saw these. The scientists journalists. So I want to talk about Abraham Lincoln first because he's the most popular.

He's the one that's the most cited. He's been seen by the most people doing the most different things. So I think my favorite story about Abraham Lincoln is it was one night, sometime in the 1940s, it doesn't have a specific day or month. But Prime Minister Winston Churchill was visiting in the White House and he went and took his bath and walked Al Fresco nude into his room and was smoking a cigar.

So, there you go, mental image. Nickid Winston Churchill smoking a cigar naked and he looks up and lo and behold, he's got a visitor in his room leaning against the fireplace and he looks at this visitor, you know, because there he is, but Nickid and it's Abraham Lincoln. And so needless to say, he was a little bit surprised. And Churchill, kind of just took it in the stride, he wasn't scared.

He just says he taps some ash off his cigar, said, good evening, Mr. President, you seem to have me at a disadvantage. Churchill says Lincoln smiled and disappeared. And Churchill, who isn't easily rattled because he didn't run screaming from the room.

He actually addressed this apparition that he saw, but he did refuse to sleep in that bedroom ever again. And he did visit the White House several times over the course of those World War II years. And the other thing, while we're talking about World War II, they do say that Lincoln tends to appear more often when the country is under a lot of duress. So he, a lot of the sightings.

I want to go there now then. Okay, a lot of the sightings that we're, I know right now stop podcasting. We're going to Washington to tell my work. I'll be back.

Yeah, so they said he was around a lot and a lot of the stories you hear are from kind of that World War II 1940s era. I mean, he does pop up even as recently as the bushes. But yeah, so if you want to go Abraham Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln hunting, go when there's turmoil in the US. It's funny, it's actually recently closed on Facebook that I was announcing my candidacy for president of 2024 with my running mate being Jimmy Lindarling.

And our first act of business as president and vice president once elected would be to investigate the Lincoln bedroom. Awesome. Yeah, of course. I'll make a camera.

So about four Tim 2024. So we can investigate the bedroom and then maybe help America or I might set up. We don't know. But you know, the first person that actually claimed they saw Lincoln's ghost was Grace Coolidge, the wife of then president Calvin Coolidge.

She said that the lanky former president was standing looking out at window of the Oval Office across the photo back to the former Civil War battlefields beyond. And a lady bird Johnson, wife of president Lyndon Johnson, also said that she felt his president one night while watching television program about his death. And I think the interesting thing about Grace Coolidge is the room that they were in was the yellow oval room. And at Lincoln, in Lincoln's time, that was actually his personal library.

And so, you know, the fact that she would see him there, I mean, I could see him standing in this library, staring out, you know, the window thinking, oh my gosh, what am I going to do with this whole Civil War issue? And this general and that thing, I've never been a president during the Civil War, so I don't know exactly what they think about. That makes stone sense to me, which is why some of these to me seem very credible. I guess a lot of the reportings or most of the reportings of seeing President Lincoln was during FDR's time in the Oval Office or in the White House.

And I guess his wife, Ellemore, said she used to use the Lincoln bedroom as her study. And while she was in there, she would fill his presence there late at night. Also, there was Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands, actually visited the White House. And when she was there, she heard a knock on her bed and wore it in the night.

And when she answered it, she said she saw Lincoln's ghost wearing his top hat, and then he just kind of fainted away. Right. Right in front of her. No.

Like, hello, here I am, goodbye. Yeah, and Mrs. Roosevelt also had a staff member by the name of Mary Eben. And she was a secretary to Mrs.

Roosevelt. And she said one day she was passing the Lincoln bedroom, and just kind of noticed some movement. So she glanced in to see who was there. And she said she noticed a tall thin man sitting on the edge of the bed.

And he was pulling on a pair of boots. And she realized that's not just some dude pulling on boots. That's, I don't know who that is, that's Abraham Lincoln. And at that time he would have been dead for about 75 years.

So it had to have been his ghost and not the actual man. I guess there's been reports of staff members hearing pacing going on in the room above them and other staff members are like, Oh, don't worry, it's just President Lincoln. He's fine. Right.

So President Truman, he wrote a letter to his wife because Truman's wife did not like Washington DC. And so she didn't come to live with him at the White House. And so she, he wrote her letter. And it said, I sit in this old house all the while listening to Ghost Walk up and down the hallway.

At 4am, I was awakened by three distinct knocks on my bedroom door. No one was there. Damned place is haunted. Sure, shoot.

It's from Truman. Damned place is haunted. Sure, shoot. I was getting hell hairy.

That place is haunted, I think. Oh, yeah. According to psychics, they say it's haunted. So did you hear about President Reagan's dog Rex?

No, I did not. President Reagan, he said he never saw any ghosts. But his dog Rex, that's a little terrier, some type of remember, was a like a spring or something like that. Anyway, he would go to the Lincoln bedroom and would not go inside, but would sit outside the door and bark.

Interesting. And he'd go everywhere else in the house, but he would not go into the Lincoln bedroom. I've heard all about the Lincoln bedroom. Ever since there was a little kid, people always telling stories about how the Lincoln bedroom haunted and how people don't sleep in there and whatnot.

I mean, that's probably to jump ahead a little bit. Maybe I'll save this for the bucket list. But yeah, I just, I'll go up. I've heard stories about the Lincoln bedroom.

So I want to come back to the Lincoln family, but while we're talking about dogs, there is one other animal spirit that they see at the White House. And it's a demonic cat and they see it in the basement. And they say that this cat will show up right before some big tragedy. So like they would see this demonic cat like right before the the stock market crash in the 1920s.

They saw it right before the Civil War. They saw it right before World War II and for the R J F K was shot. Yeah, so this cat and I remember right it appears at first, you know, if you kind of see it in the corner of your eye, you think, Oh, cute little bat kitten, but then it turns all scary and weird when you look at it directly. Yeah, I wonder if Stephen King knew about this when he wrote his sequel to the shining Dr.

Sleep. I don't know. Because in the movie, I don't know if you've seen the movie, but he's working. It's, um, come play with us.

Danny, uh, Danny, we can remember his name. He's older, Danny Torrance is older. He's working in like an old flux home. And there's this cat that he sees going into the basement bedrooms.

And when he goes into the bedroom, it's basically he, at that point, ushers the person into the next life, it basically helps him pass away. But it's every time that this cat goes into a bedroom, that person dies at night. So yeah, when I've only seen the movie, I haven't read the book, but when you were saying that with the cat at the White House, that's just kind of what it reminded me of. That sounds familiar.

Is that they did that in Dr. Sleep whenever the cat went into a patient's room, that patient was his time to go. We have a movie we need to watch now. Dr.

Sleep. Dr. Sleep, but is the sequel to the shining? Oh, I did not know there's a sequel.

Okay. So back to the Lincoln family. The Lincoln family was very interesting. Um, in fact, I think we need to add to our podcast topic list, Mary Todd Lincoln.

That was the wife of Abraham Lincoln. And she was all sorts of crazy into the paranormal and seances and spiritualism. Spiritualism. Well, we all know Abraham Lincoln was a bad parameter.

Yes. Well, we've seen the documentary. Yeah, I've seen it. I own it.

Yeah, he uses accidents and he hunted the vampires. Exactly. So, Willie Lincoln was one of their sons, and he died in the White House. He was 11 and they're pretty sure it was typhoid fever.

Somewhere online, there was a movie or somewhere online, there was a documentary that said it was a train accident and he did not train accident. He died in the White House. The theory of a typhoid fever. The side I was on said most likely typhoid fever, but some disease, not a train.

Um, and he was 11. He was 11 years old. He was seen not only by his parents, but also by the staff of the Grant administration in the 1870s. Um, and then there's a lady.

Um, also not not a Lincoln family member, but kind of related to Lincoln as far as occurrences. In 1865, there's a lady named Mary Surret and she was convicted of conspiring to assassinate President Lincoln and sentenced to death. Well, her daughter, Annie, um, you know, pleaded for her mother's life. It was Annie.

It was Annie. At least the website I have said Annie. I think I've seen it as Jane Surat, but I could be wrong. Um, and even after Mary was hanged and after Annie was long gone, you know, way past when they would normally be alive.

Um, apparently Annie's ghost reportedly continues to knock on doors in the White House, leading for her mother's life. So that's another, um, Lincoln, Ty, and Lincoln related ghost, not, not related family wise, but, but as far as goings on. Okay. So, um, anyway, if you, if you, this interest you look online, there are so many stories of different people that have seen Abraham Lincoln's ghost in different, you know, he's, he's probably the most side of ghost, but he's not the only presidential ghost at the White House.

Yeah. You can YouTube search, um, White House ghosts and some very interesting videos and some very interesting commentary. Um, so another one of the ghosts, and he's got a grumpy ghost is Andrew Jackson. I would call him probably a type two.

He's grumpy. Um, he's been heard at the White House since the 1860s, and they claim to hear him stomping around, swearing and letting loose his signature guttural laugh. Yeah. Old Hicre was kind of a cantankerson life is what I understand.

Yeah. So if there's a, there's a swearing ghost at the White House and it's Andrew Jackson. Now Thomas Jefferson, um, is a, is a kinder, more gentile ghost. Um, in the 1860s, he was heard by Mary Todd.

Um, she says that she heard him playing his violin in the yellow oval room. And, um, it was so clear that she said to a friend, my, my, how that Mr. Jefferson does play that violin. Um, Abigail Adams, who was the wife of John Adams, the second president, um, she was actually the first first lady to live in the White House.

And she used to use the East Room to dry sheets. Um, it wasn't always the, the fanciest house ever. Well, it was first being constructed and they hadn't got the furniture and stuff in there yet. And they were still working on the other wings and, um, it was a dry and warm area.

So yeah, she'd go in there and dry her sheets. And then, um, she died in 1818. But ever since then, a lot of residents, a lot of staff has claimed to see her walking around with her arms outstretched as though she's carrying sheets. Um, and I just think that if you die and you're doomed to do your laundry forever, that would suck.

Huge time. What did she do wrong in life? Is that where you're at? Yeah, I hate doing laundry in real life.

This is how I do laundry. I'll wash and I'll dry it. I'll bring it upstairs. That's how it sits there long enough.

Chad gets away from me. I don't remember. Yeah, yeah, I know. That's, that's not the intent, but that's how it works out.

Um, so the man who, um, who sold the government the land that the White House is on, his name is David Burns. And he sold it in 1791. Um, it's actually, he owned the land, but not only the White House, but like the entire city of Washington DC sits on. And people say that they, like a guard and a valet in the Oval Office have both said they've heard of voices as I'm Mr.

Burns and it kind of, kind of drags out. And I would assume that they're hearing this with their, an audible because I can't imagine, you know, valet or, you know, White House staff in the Oval Office, you know, with the recorders going to say, so they must have heard this, you know, audibly, which I think is super cool. So Tim, when you are president in 2024, after the Lincoln bedroom, can we go to the Oval Office? Yes, we can.

Um, I also want to go to the Roseroom. I heard about the Roseroom. The Roseroom was Andrew Jackson's bedroom at the time when he lived there. And that is actually said to be one of the most haunted houses in the White House.

One of, it's probably room. Yeah, it's a room. It's not, I heard it's the second most haunted after the Lincoln bedroom. That's what it was.

Well, that would be making it one of the most haunted. Yeah, no, I'm with you. But yeah, it's, it's up there on the list. So the Roseroom, um, Oval Office, the whole building, really.

I don't even have to invest in it. I just have Randy Watkins tell me everything that. Okay, so we've talked about some of the one I didn't write down. I wrote notes, but one of the last, presidential ghosts before we get into some non-presidential ghosts was Dolly Madison and Dolly Madison put together the Rose Garden and considering, so she would have been in the late 1700s?

Early, yeah. Early, yeah, it'd be like, no late 1700s. She was 17 hundreds, but she put together this Rose Garden and considering the time it would not have been easy, but the Rose. It would have been 1812, 1814, because she was the one that saved Washington's picture from the fire from the fire in 1812, which is another ghost we can talk about.

Yes. So she, um, she put this Rose Garden together. And now the Rose Garden is one of the most famous gardens in the world. It's beautiful.

It's where they do a lot of photo op kind of stuff at the White House. Um, and who was it that wanted to pick it up because she liked it? Edith Wilson. Yes.

So what were Wilson's wife said? I don't like these. I'm gonna take them up. So she got started to, to redo the Rose Garden.

Well, Dolly Madison did not like that at all. And she came down and her ghost appeared and basically said, huh, to the workers, to the workers. We're out of here. And so yeah, the Rose Garden is still there.

So, yeah. So don't mess with Dolly Madison. She's used to his doll. All right.

So there, the Washington critic newspaper in 1883 talked about some ghosts that are there that aren't necessarily presidential. They have an old man that haunts the second floor bedrooms. And this came from a White House attache who related that the spirit is aged and bent with a long phosphorescent white beard. In here, he's ghastly, wavy, bright, blaring eyes and long scrawny fingers.

His walk is noiseless but stately. And his presence is always indicated by a particular electric sensation, which and how he he says, which pervades the surrounding air. And it was alleged that the same ghost also disturbed President Ulysses S. Grant at night.

But the apparition never became kind of a famous ghost simply because there were so many other presidential or, you know, first lady ghosts. This one never really became popular. And then another non-White House ghost as far as I mean, it's in the White House, but it's not presidential, was in 1897. And there was a White House placed by making his rounds and he saw a light in the greenhouse complex that used to stand on the west side of the building.

It was not down in 1902, so it's not there anymore. But the officer said, oh my god, see what's going on? Make sure that this is all good. And at the time, there's a lot of really prized exotic flowers and so, you know, protecting those as well.

And so he relates the story that as he entered the Conservatory, he was met by a tall, beautiful lady dressed in the fashion of the early 19th century. And he spoke to her and then she vanished. But he heard a musical laugh and saw a phosphorus at low that stayed in the greenhouse for quite a while after she left. So he checked the doors, searched the Conservatory, but there was no sign or trace of his woman.

So about a month later, the same light appeared in the Guard with the Conservatory. He felt kind of a rush of air. He felt a light touch on his shoulder and he turned and saw the same ladies before. And this time scared him because it actually touched him and he passed out.

So later, he told the story to his superiors and they fired him. So he told the story to friends and then a little while later a journalist interviewed him and that's how we have the story today. But yeah, we got fired for his for his ghost for his ghostly sightings. And I think this last one to me is kind of strange.

They call it the thing, but it's a boy. So I don't like how they call him the thing. This thing that haunts the White House was first seen in 1911. And it was President Taff's military aide whose name was Major Archibald, but and I'm sorry, I would change my name like my last name was, but if you're listening to this and your last name is about my apologies, but that just seems like you're gonna get teased.

Anyway, he wrote to a sister, Clara, and it said, he said, it seems like the White House is haunted. The ghost it seems as a young boy from its description, I should think about 14 or 15 years old. They say that the first knowledge one has the presence of the thing is a slight pressure on the shoulder as if someone were leaning over your shoulder to see what you might be doing. So that's what he told his sister.

But when he, when, when, Major Butt repeated the stask gossip about the thing to the president, Taff flew into a rage, Taff was not, not keen on ghost stories. And he said, it's a very serious thing to have the ghost story to get out among the people of the country. He didn't want people thinking that the White House was haunted. He wanted to think everything was cool.

So Taff ordered Butt to tell the White House housekeeper that the first member of the staff to repeat stories about the thing would be fired. So I'm almost getting the impression that Taff didn't mean to have the thing, like lusty call it a ghost. Yeah, I'm, I'm wondering if it was Willie Lincoln. Possibly.

You know, I mean, 1114ish boy. Could be. So the thing might be Willie Lincoln. Maybe, maybe it is a thing.

Could be a thing. Could be a demonic thing. Did they ever mention how that made them feel like what emotions they got from it or just that they thought? That's what they thought.

That's all we have. Oh, okay. So now, so we've talked a lot about things that we've seen in the, in the late 1800s and the early 1900s and the 40s. So people could say, oh, um, are there, are people still seeing ghosts?

Yes, actually. This is one of my favorites. Jenna Bush. So the son or the son, the daughter of George Bush, Jr.

I can never remember their middle initials. So George Bush, the son, his daughter, Jenna, her phone rang in the middle of the night, you know, they're living in the White House because it's their house, right? And they had a fireplace in the room. And all of a sudden they started hearing 1920s style piano music just as clear as day coming out of the fireplace.

So Jenna's sister was named Barbara, named after grandma, and she jumps into her sister's bed and they're both laying there, you know, wide awake, listening to 1920s music, blaring from their fireplace. And the next week, they heard the same thing, but this time it was opera music. And they talked themselves out of it, but they said, um, you would not believe what we heard last night. And he says, oh, Jenna, he wouldn't believe what I have heard.

And she said that to one of the White House staff. And he's like, oh, that's nothing. And it doesn't go into what he said, at least in this article, maybe it's somewhere else. She said they, they were really, really close to running into their parents' house or their parents' room, you know, save those from the ghosts.

And what Jenna said later, she says it's haunted, it's scary, but they came with all good intentions. They were friendly ghosts. And everything that I've read on these White House ghosts, I've never gotten the impression that anything was malevolent. I mean, people got scared and people were startled, but there's some grumpy, but yeah, there's some grumpy things, but I never got the impression that anybody will accept the demonic cap.

And the fact that Abraham Lincoln shows up before that stuff happens. So going back to the Jenna Bush one, there is a YouTube video with Kelly Clarkson on that, where Jenna Bush is actually relating that story. So if you go out to YouTube and you can search that, it's only about five minutes long, but it was quite interesting to have her talking with with Kelly Clarkson about that experience. That's cool.

What you gonna say to him? Oh, exactly that. I watched that on the way here. I didn't watch it.

I listened to it, but don't go. But yeah, I listened to that exact story. So did I leave out any detail? No, that's exactly the, but it's almost like they just took the transcript of the interview and put it there on the paper that you're reading.

So yeah, that's pretty much work for word exactly what she said on that interview. So it was kind of cool to actually hear it firsthand, her telling her story. So as I was doing other research, I tend to kind of, I get more into the Lincoln ghost. I'm with Tim.

If I was ever to get into the White House, I just had full rain and could go wherever I want. I go to Lincoln bedroom. You know, he's one of my favorite presidents and just the time period, I think is really cool. So I spent most of my time researching kind of that era.

But as I was looking and doing the research, the Obama's claim to see stuff, the Clintons had some stories and again, I didn't read them, but it seems like almost every president had some sort of a ghostly encounter with the exception of maybe Taft. And he was just grumpy about it. Yeah, they did say that some of the activity did subside a little bit after President Truman, they did the renovation of the White House, that some of the activity subsided, but they're still activity there. Yeah, so some of the activity subsided, but right after those renovations, because when they renovated it, they pretty much got it.

And you know, pretty much rebuilt it from scratch. But I guess when he did that, Abraham Lincoln surfaced a little bit more. And the story goes, Abraham Lincoln got kind of annoyed at Mary Todd Lincoln because she spent some money to refurbish it. And he said something like, I don't know why you're spending so much money on this down to place.

And so when Mrs. Truman went and did a massive overhaul, it was easier for her to do it because she wasn't living there anyway, because she's backing Kansas. Yeah, she was like, I don't like it here. It's dark and solid spirit.

So she did this big overhaul. But I guess Abe Lincoln was there, you know, right? But there's so much money in those down to those. Did you know Harry Truman actually wrote to his wife?

And he said, I sit here in this old house and work on foreign affairs, read reports, and work on speeches. All the while listening to the ghost walk up and down the hallways and even right in right here in the study. The floors pop and the drapes move back and forth. And I can just imagine old Andy Jackson and Teddy Roosevelt having an argument over Franklin Roosevelt.

It was actually a letter he wrote to his wife. Yeah, he seems like a character. There's just so much that, I mean, that building has seen so much history. And I'm trying to show time it's been around.

I also think it was Truman. At least I thought I wrote this down. Truman said one other funny thing about the White House. It was related by his daughter.

And his daughter basically said, you know, he had so many paranormal experiences at the White House. He was totally a believer. And she said, but he will not be coming to haunt the White House because he said, I don't understand why Abe Lincoln spends so much time here. Nobody in their right mind would want to come here on purpose, meaning the White House.

So if you're going to be looking for Truman's ghost, it won't be there. He will not be there. Oh, darn. Although he'd be a really interesting one to to be there, you know?

Yeah, I think any of them would be interesting. Oh, yeah. I do. I think it would be fun to talk to Abraham Lincoln.

I would like to talk to Abraham Lincoln. I find him fascinating. Okay, so I was really excited to talk about this topic because when people ask me, how did you get into paranormal? There's not really one defining moment.

That being said, when we decided on this topic, it reminded me of when I was in probably second or third grade. And you remember when you were little and you'd go to grade school and you'd get this scholastic book orders? Did you ever get the Tim? Oh, I love that.

You go on the room. They'd have the books up sometimes or you'd order them on the I'd get so many books. Oh, yeah. I didn't read, but I'd get books.