Three Big Lies About Immigrants and Fraud, with Sonya Schwartz

From the first moments of his first campaign for president, Donald Trump has accused immigrants of fraudulently obtaining public benefits, immigration protections, and even votes. Does any of this hold up under scrutiny? We asked Sonya Schwartz, who knows more than just about anyone about the complex intersection of immigration, public benefits, and voting laws. She has the data to debunk all three of MAGA’s big lies about immigrants and fraud, and how this scapegoating leads to policies that harm all of us – from millions of families losing food assistance to voter ID laws that would block U.S. citizens from the polls. Meanwhile, some of the country’s worst actual fraudsters are getting pardoned instead of prosecuted. ==Learn More== Amanda, Claire, and Doug express their own personal opinions on The Melting Pod. This episode was produced by Michael Palmer (⁠palmer.media⁠). Read more about the topics in this episode: * What to know about Nick Shirley, the YouTuber alleging day care fraud in Minnesota - NPR (Dec. 2025) * Right-Wing YouTuber Behind Viral Minnesota Fraud Video Has Long Anti-Immigrant History - The Intercept (Dec. 2025) * Trump repeats claim of $19 billion in Minnesota fraud. Here's what the numbers show. - Star Tribune (Feb. 2026) * When a president calls human beings ‘garbage’ - Maine Morning Star (Feb. 2025) * Questions and Answers About the 75-Country Visa Ban Lawsuit - Center for Constitutional Rights (Feb. 2026) * At least 3.5 million people have lost food stamp access as Trump’s ‘big beautiful bill’ cuts take effect, analysis finds - CNBC (May 2026) * Brett Favre and the Mississippi welfare case explained - ESPN (May 2023) * Judge blocks feds from using immigration database to check voter eligibility - Texas Tribune (June 2026) * Depardieu in English, In Weir's 'Green Card' - New York Times (Dec. 1990) * Trump DOJ Dropped 23,000 Criminal Investigations in Shift to Immigration - ProPublica (2026) * The Main Beneficiaries of Trump's Pardons? White-Collar Criminals Like Him - Washington Monthly (Dec. 2025) ==Give More== Want to help build a more sane and humane immigration system? Support hardworking organizations like these: National: * ⁠#AfghanEvac⁠ – working to ensure the U.S. keeps its promise to our Afghan allies * ⁠Asylum Seeker Advocacy Project⁠ – the country’s largest membership organization of asylum seekers, working together for change * ⁠Black Alliance for Just Immigration (BAJI)⁠ – organizing and advocating for racial, social and economic justice * ⁠Haitian Bridge Alliance⁠ – providing humanitarian, legal, and social services * ⁠International Refugee Assistance Project (IRAP)⁠ - strategic litigation and advocacy to uphold the rights of people seeking safety * ⁠Justice Action Center⁠ - immigrant justice through litigation and storytelling Local: * ⁠Al Otro Lado⁠ - legal and humanitarian support to refugees, deportees, and other migrants in the U.S. and Tijuana * ⁠Catholic Charities Rio Grande Valley⁠ - providing assistance to the poor and most vulnerable populations in the Rio Grande Valley community * ⁠Las Americas Immigrant Advocacy Center⁠ - free and low-cost legal services to immigrants and refugees in West Texas, New Mexico, and Ciudad Juarez, Mexico * ⁠Support an immigration service provider near you⁠ ==Chapters== (0:00:00) Introduction to Sonya Schwartz (0:03:59) The slanderous narrative about immigrants committing fraud  (0:07:14) Allegations of welfare fraud (0:08:30) Trump calls a whole community “garbage” (0:10:37) The State Dept. bans immigration from 75 countries (0:18:09) Which immigrants are actually eligible for which public benefits?  (0:22:54) Lightning round Q&A on undocumented immigrants and welfare (0:25:30) U.S. citizens are going hungry after Trump’s “One Big Beautiful Bill” (0:26:49) Cutting off temporary support for refugees (0:28:37) Who are the real perpetrators of public benefits fraud? (0:33:28) Allegations of voter fraud (0:38:15) What would happen if the SAVE Act passed? (0:42:09) Allegations of immigration fraud (0:45:19) Gérard Depardieu and sham marriages (0:48:45) Trump’s lenience with actual fraudsters (0:52:51) What is to be done? (0:55:30) Conclusion