Three Days. 11 Votes. No speaker.

And good evening, along with Jake Tapper in Washington, DC, we are watching the House of Representatives longest running drama since the Civil War era. Republicans failing time and time again, 11 times, so far until that Kevin McCarthy speaker. 11 times. The latest vote, though, not only on that, on merely on whether to adjourn.

And end, Kevin McCarthy's rolling humiliation for this evening. And as Monrojo has been reporting on the state of play tonight, he joins us now from the Capitol. So, Monro, first of all, if they adjourn for the evening, what happens then? Well, then negotiations will continue.

And actually, the motion to adjourn is a good sign for Kevin McCarthy who has had one bad result after another. 11 straight times being rejected, not being able to get a majority of the House to elect a speaker, paralyzing this institution at the start of the 118th Congress. That is the first order of business. If they can't elect a speaker, then they can adjourn.

That's really the only two options. But then in the majority of the House to adjourn, they have wanted to adjourn. The Kevin McCarthy all day long has wanted to adjourn this House in order to allow for negotiations to happen. But Democrats didn't want to get, allow him to do that.

They wanted to see him fail time and time again. And some Republicans, those holdouts, would not give him the votes either. So as a result, McCarthy has had to go through this experience and seeing him lose time and time again. But behind the scenes, there have been furious negotiations happening to try to come to some sort of resolution between a handful of McCarthy detractors and McCarthy allies, try to give things that a members of the far right House Freedom Caucus in particular have demanded to give them more leverage over the speakership, to give them more sway over the legislative process.

Those negotiations have happened from last night, but beyond. And through the course of the day, and behind closed doors, Kevin McCarthy was with a number of key negotiators, key holdouts on both sides. And I spoke to several of them. They all are sounding very positive that they are coming to some sort of resolution.

They say they, one of them, Patrick McHenry, very close to Kevin McCarthy said that they have moved closer than they have been over the last couple of days. He says that they're talking a lot about how to implement what they're saying, a conservative agenda, their process for doing that. That has been the nature of a lot of the discussions today, but they believe they can get there, which is why they are having this vote to adjourn right now, because those conservative holdouts appear likely to give them the votes to finally adjourn the House for the day, to get to tomorrow in order to negotiate through the night, tonight, into tomorrow to see if McCarthy can finally get the votes. But Anderson, McCarthy almost certainly will not get the votes tomorrow because several of his members, at least four, are leaving town for certain issues.

So he's going to fall short under 218, which means that it's very likely this gets pushed in the next week. So, Mona, Justin, what we're looking at right now on the screen in just a couple of minutes, remaining. These are Republican Democrats, independents voting on whether or not to adjourn. It's a simple majority that's needed to adjourn, correct?

That is correct. It's a simple majority of those who are present in voting. There are five who are not voting. Right now, Republicans have 216 votes, 212.

They're five Republicans who have not showed up, presuming that two of them do show up and give them the votes. That should be enough to call it. But if the clerk here comes down with the gavel now, that's probably enough given the no votes here to get to adjourn. They will not be having this vote to Republican leadership if they didn't think they're going to have the votes to adjourn.

So you can assure that this is almost certainly going to pass here. But still, it does not mean even if they get this deal, that does not mean that Kevin McCarthy has 218 votes. In fact, you have more work to do. There are other holdouts.

We have been now been party to this negotiation. We have other issues. I'm a car. People have to resolve.

So that is why we're looking at several more days potentially of this to see if McCarthy can finally get their answer. All right, on a rise, you'll appreciate us. Go back to Jake while we watch the vote. Thanks Anderson.

Joining us now, Indiana Republican Congresswoman Victoria Sparks, who has been voting presence for the last two days. She did so again tonight. Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us. You voted for Kevin McCarthy in the first three votes.

But then for the last eight, you voted present. That you were voting present yesterday because you wanted to see negotiations happen. And you were trying to take a step back and give the the rebels and the McCarthy forces time to negotiate. It sounds like the McCarthy people have been making offer after offer and McCarthy has been acquiescing on issue after issue.

Why are you still voting present? I think it's important for us to have this conversation because I think we do have a responsibility to elect a speaker. But we have to talk to each other. So I think, believe we're making progress, it's very good to have a progress.

Honestly, we need to come together because we have to govern the Republicans and we have to make a difference with each other. So if Kevin is able to get us, you know, if he's mobile, Fox is great. If no one can come back as a conference and have his discussions, you know, I think it's important. And I truly believe we have some positive movement and having this talks then we will come up with the speaker.

Are you open at all to voting for someone else? Perhaps the number two House Republican Steve Scalise for speaker? If McCarthy were to withdraw his name from consideration. So I'll be personally to tell you something that I am not worried as much about personality, about worry about this institution and processes.

I think there are a lot of good things happening as part of the stocks because we do not want to be a dictatorship. Each of us represent equal amount of people and we need to be able to have an equal input on issues. So I think it actually will be an official to Democrats. People are informed as institutions.

So I'm not worried about it. Honestly, I don't live in life. I can just put all names and let God decide if we had to just pick a person because it's not about the person. It's about this institution and us that govern it.

And I think that would matter a lot. Let me interrupt for one second. I apologize, Congresswoman, but they just the clerk just gavel down and the vote is over. And the gays have it.

There will be the motion to adjourn will pass by 219 to 213. So the House will adjourn until tomorrow. Let's listen in. The nays are 213.

The motion is adopted. Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until noon tomorrow. All right, I apologize, Congresswoman. I just wanted to bring that news as it was happening.

So you are going to adjourn until noon tomorrow. So it won't keep you too much later. But what concessions are there left for Kevin McCarthy to give already? I have heard from several members of Congress about the fact that it is going to be so difficult to legislate whoever the speaker is because McCarthy has given on so many items for must pass bills such as funding the government or raising the debt ceiling.

Congress is likely going to be going to be in a position where Democrats, the 212 Democrats go to sign a discharge petition and then six or seven, whatever responsible Republicans will do so as well to force must pass bills onto the floor of the house because the concessions can be put in the house. Because the concessions Kevin McCarthy has made is going to make it so must pass bills are going to be blocked in committee because so much power is being given to these these rebels. It already doesn't seem like he has much to give me on that. I want to comment on details because I haven't seen what the skies and I think it would be good for us to hear what is discussed and before anyone will make final decisions.

Well, here it is in Congress, but legislative process should never be easy. Well, it should never be easy. We shouldn't be producing legislation without deliberation and debate and looking into things. So it should be just a top down shop to everyone and force everyone to vote.

This is not how legislative process work. Open process is tough, but that's what we came here to do and we have to be able to do it. I think it's important for us to get back to business. So we have a proper oversight and executive branches are a lot of unimportant issues, but people shouldn't be afraid to take votes and then make people know where they spend on issues.

So it's not a bad thing, but I don't want to comment on any specific rules because I haven't seen them and it wouldn't be informed commentaries that I could make. No, I hear you, but I guess what I'm saying is what I'm hearing from House Republicans and allies of Kevin McCarthy is that they feel like all these rule changes are making it so that it's gone beyond democratizing and liberalizing. The voting process and the legislative process and the amendment process and it has gone into a place where there will be the tyranny of the minority where these rebels will be able to force votes quickly on whether or not to get rid of a speaker or to prevent legislation that can pass the House of Representatives from even coming up for a vote. That's how much that's the fears that I'm hearing from your House Republican colleagues that that is the territory we're entering.

Well, I think we should make judgment before we see that. And I honestly, before we deliberate and the statute of conference, any of those rule changes, no one is going to come to a decision. So all sides will be able to deliberate and address issues and concerns before any change or some aid. So I don't worry about that.

And if there are some legitimate concerns like that, we'll have to hear how it's going to be addressed. But I don't worry about that right now. I'm just going to make sure that we talk into each other and we haven't the discussion because it's important as part of resolution. It's important for us to talk to each other.

And then I, you know, a lot of people have different opinions, but only people in the room really know what's happening and until they come to consensus and everyone else see what's happening. It's going to be a transparent process. No going to force rules on anyone. So we'll have to be addressed to the group of people.

One last question before you go, Congresswoman, because you have a unique perspective as the only Ukrainian born member of Congress. I've heard some of your Republican colleagues to me and to others talking about how this chaotic process is helping authoritarians make the argument that democracy is so messy and complicated. It's dysfunctional, that this is all proving autocracy is a better way to go. I know you disagree with that.

I disagree with it. Do you think that that is true? That this, that this messiness is, is making it easier for dictators to make the argument that democracy is not worth the effort? Well, I can tell you one thing.

Democracy is never easy. This process is hard. They meant to be hard but I would never to change this for ASennels. If you live in dictatorship, if you live in the tyranny, you know what it means to have freedoms and that's why Ukrainian people are now dying for radiance.

And don't want to go back to that. Sometimes we have to reread from some lessons and really remember how many people die for our freedoms. So we're going to be fighting for our republic and I think part of the liberation it is to have this discussion So I think the healthy I better have them now than later and I think we will come up with the speaker and most that governing I promise you all right Congress on its part. It's always good to see you.

Thank you so much with me here Mine is only grandpa Daisy McDowell is CNN's already Cornish and Dan a bash and Casey Hone and Jamie Gell and David Chalion So thank you so much one and all for being here. Um, Jamie Yeah, I I don't know what you were hearing, but I am starting to hear from Kevin McCarthy allies a note of resignation and defeat Not that McCarthy is there but an acknowledgement in what they are saying along the lines of well This is gonna be really tough for whoever the next speaker is we have heard this in bits and pieces along the way They'll say we're for Kevin McCarthy and then the magic word, but Everybody has been prepared that was simply may not work out I'm hearing something else from Kevin McCarthy allies and maybe some people who are not strong allies But people who've been voting for them and I call it concession regret, which is something the Congresswoman just told you Jake She doesn't know what's being promised away in that room and there is real concern We have seen historic dysfunction at least in the moderate era And there is real concern that the promises that Kevin is making to try to get in enough votes to get it down to four Are going to lead to a disaster down the road Frank question because you you were former health Corresponding as am I as are you what do you think the odds are that I know more about the historic petition situation about what this next time It's gonna look like then more than a lot of these Republican the house member I mean, I don't think a lot of these house Republicans these new no, no I mean, yes, you know more than a lot of them do I mean this we all do what they're 212 Democrats are gonna go into a room sign a discharge petition six other Republicans are gonna have to join them to get what's called Must-pass legislation on to the floor of the house Yes, I mean look Jake the bottom line is that they are trying to make changes to the house Republican process or to the excuse me The house the functioning of the house process that ultimately could make the entire chamber and perhaps the country ungovernable depending on the situation I mean that is what's going on here and if you listen I think the way Matt Gates put it in a Fox interview was to say well I'm never voting for him But in the meantime we're constructing a street jacket for Kevin McCarthy Which is essentially what's going on whoever ends up being the speaker here is not gonna have any room to move any room to do anything And the reality is we don't function without this chamber functioning as a country now. Maybe that's the point for some of these people But I think it's pretty dangerous. I mean, I'm seeing some tweets from People like Jason Crow talking about national security implications of this Nicole Malia Takis Republican from New York talking about the fact that she has constituents who have problems with with fraud Identity theft and the IRS is telling them we can't help you because of Congress I mean the ripple effects into people's actual lives never mind the disbelief that they've elected adults to this place called the House of Representatives Who can't get their act together even to elect a speaker is growing and it will continue to grow Audie, why do you think that we haven't heard from any of the potential 2024 Republican candidates other than Donald Trump on this issue Matt Gates is from Florida.

Why is his governor not talking about this why are the Asa Hutchinson's and the Nikki Haley's and all the other possible 2024 candidates not saying anything I I mean first of all there's it's lose lose to touch this with a 10-foot pole Rhonda Santas who actually originated out of the house freedom caucus way back when he actually gave his second term sort of Back to Florida speech which sounded a lot like a campaign speech which very much nodded at the dysfunction in Washington It's extremely important for politicians outside of Washington to underscore that at any given moment all the time Because that's how you get to write in and be the savior kind of election time, right? David like to say like look at me. I'm the outsider So you don't want to go near this there's no incentive to do that even Trump in a way I think is staying as far away from this as he can Yeah, I mean the Republican Party is a mess right now on everyone's screens If I was advising a 24 Republican presidential candidate, I would say exactly what I just said don't touch this with a 10-foot pole This is this is there's nothing to gain here for you Just be apart from this because otherwise you become part of this picture of the mess as we've seen with the one declared Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, you know, it's interesting too because what they're setting up here is heading into like let's not forget We're about to start the presidential election season in earnest And so this is going to be a problem for the party that is going to extend way beyond just the floor of this house because I mean imagine that the debt ceiling Is supposed to expire in August. Let's say they can get someone, you know with that speaker's gavel That's a huge pressure point absolutely critical the stock market Well, I mean the last time, you know something major financial was threatened I remember seeing you at the Capitol actually when tarp failed initially the financial bailout failed the stock market tank And you're gonna see potential impacts like that just as Republicans potentially trying to pick a nominee I mean the setup for the party will have to talk about the candidates will have to show an opportunity there for leadership what you're describing Jake But for this mess my point is this just extends out for the party Does it stand out?

But if you think about the people who have the real ambition Take Donald Trump out of what i'm about to say to be president they're governors They they can legitimately keep what is happening here in washington at arms length and say I'm the ceo of my state. I know how to do this so in some ways if you talk about the republican electorate this might provide And as contrast it's such a fascinating place to be and if you think about a year ago It was this idea that like the red wave is coming the red tsunami is coming the economy's bad We're gonna ride in and fix it even the dobs decision obviously for conservatives That was a win and now here we are all the way towards the end of the year Marjorie Taylor green of all people is touting kevin macarthur this is someone who was threatening him going into january right and all of a sudden She's like you're a rational um guys trashy warren. Yeah trashy blurbour get it together They've got the majority and yet it feels like they don't that's not the picture You want to show the electorate when you're claiming that you just want a mandate of some sort by winning back the house We should know one thing jake So since Tuesday we've seen kevin macarthur make zero progress on the house floor and votes the other correct for this adjournment vote I know this sounds crazy, but last night there were four republicans who joined with democrats refusing to vote for adjournment Uh not trying to give kevin macarthur the ability to make a deal and get a strip together. What have you tonight?

It was apparently just one republican. I don't know which one. I don't know we've seen that yet Um who voted with all the democrats to avoid adjournment that is an absurd uh marker for kevin macarthur to sort of claim that as a victory But literally other than reports of closed door progress This is the only physical progress we've seen in a vote tally in something he wanted on the house floor since Tuesday Can I just say republican member of congress said to me about this never underestimate when they get hungry For sleep. Yeah It's right So there is a pool going on in the makeup room about how long this is gonna last and we don't i don't have to Ask you what you voted for but um, you know Just looking at the the history of this which i have had time to do on the microfiche that janice referred to There are only a several there are only a few ways in which this kind of thing gets resolved Um one of them is changing the rules.

That's how they got that's how they ended the 133 vote One that lasted two months in 64 votes, which is requiring a plurality instead of a majority One of them is binding consensus candidate and one of them is just grinding it out Uh, i'm kind of of the belief that this is going to be a grind out that it's just going to go and go and go until somebody blanks Um, what do you how many ballots did go ahead? Give it up. What did you say in the pool? Jake go ahead In this the pool They started it just recently but how many ballots did you i said i said 29 But um but that's because i kept back and forth between 39 and 19 and then finally i just made a compromise But just because i think ultimately um I mean 29 until they get a speaker not 29 I mean like that's not to say kevin macarthur's gonna lie since 29 Or that he won't maybe he will but i just think they seem very very dug in and there seem to be at least five or six house republicans That will never vote for kevin macarthur and i can't understand How those five or six are gonna change and and he or even if it's only five like he needs he can only lose four Right, so i mean i don't know if you've so i guess 20 i was a little more optimistic But everybody i speak to all the republican members that i'm talking to they are all saying they don't see the math To get him there they don't know necessarily who number five or six or seven is of the never kevin's But they believe that there are more than four and they think it's personal and they don't think anything will change their mind Yeah, and it is it is possible that if there were a candidate like steves cleason we'll talk about that next time we come back here But if there were a candidate likes steves cleason maybe that would be enough maybe the the rebels would think like we got our pelt It's on the wall let's move forward, but who knows i don't know i mean people like laren bobert have said anderson Uh they don't want anybody in house leadership that includes steves cleason is the difference within the new york make up room the dc make room the Cool Maybe jake appreciate it Windows Let's continue the conversation david ermine i mean to the question that jake raised which is is there something how do those five or the holdouts get Since noon this afternoon i've been saying the same thing right it's a whole new audience Those five or six never gonna come along i think the best you're gonna hope for is you get some folks to vote present And you know you close the doors and in the caucus and the pressure of your fellow republicans They say listen you don't have before it's just don't be against this um you claim you're you claim you didn't vote for kevin and you know he gets elected with uh You know with a reduced margin, but we're still with still enough and uh and he gets to be speaker I don't think you're gonna get mad gates and i don't think you're gonna get low and brober and i'm not sure who uh there's one or two others that are definitely hard No, but i think i agree with you're gonna grind it out.

You're not gonna get the rule change and i don't think steves keleese i don't why would steves keleese want to wait Into this mess right now why why why he'd say like okay great congratulations you're the captain of the tiktanic Good luck well at some point in the not too distant future he may just have to take the wheel here because the way these rules if they are and we don't really Know nobody's actually seen them. We know it's been reported But the way it's structured this is gonna be a highly unstable situation and uh, you know kevin McCarthy if he wins this marathon fight to become speaker also might be one of the shortest live speakers That we've seen because of the authority that he's handed to his opponents to uh to try and vacate the chair If they don't like what he's doing, you know august will be that'll be the next big battle would be the best thing in the spring I mean they have to they have to do a budget right which then allows them to do the appropriations bills Which they've all said they want to do individually not in a big package And so there there are a lot of internal policy debates to come technically and technically tonight of these 20 holdouts What it's never been clear is are there five never ever ever's or are there six or seven right because I would submit There's a big difference between five and eight we've heard a range if there's five He can afford to lose four well if there's five then every single one of them can lay claim to the title of I am the one thing standing between you know kevin macarthian the speakership And so it's just the math of it has never been quite clear when I saw him in the room tonight meeting with all these people I took that as a good sign the motion to adjourn passing was a good sign But I don't know I guess I'll just take the other side of that argument David you put him in a room and ask him to vote present Let's still giving in and they've been so strident. How do you come down all that there's terror? Yeah, well, but this is the thing today.

We have said macarthian argument is we can't let them win Yeah, but now you can see them saying now that they've adjourned we can't win with you right and so maybe it's a good sign But the fundamentals for macarthian have not shifted the numbers have not really shifted for him So it's also possible that what's going on if we're gonna just continue to hypothesize is that some of those folks in the middle are starting to Come around to the idea. We can't win with Kevin McCarthy We've got to find another way forward if we're gonna end this thing and not continue to do even more damage to the republican party and to the brand That's not gonna be swift and painless either right? That's gonna require whole another conclave of You know if you say well, it can't be anybody in leadership, right? Because that's been the pronouncement of the 20.

Yeah, we're not gonna elect anybody in leadership But then you go to the okay, well, who's next to that? You know and row can't put forth some names, right? Well, you know, I'm sure they'll be looking to him for a If you start looking at kind of moderates who knows we're gonna go right after that because it's gonna be a jump ball Also want to bring in seen and newest senior political commentator former lonnie republican congressman and generous Excuse me member adam kinsinger Kinsinger it's good to have you with us. Um, what do you make of this mission Gus?

Look at the mess. Um, I think my biggest worry just for the country is not really the ballot after ballot and that's just democracy That's a process. It's everybody's learning kind of house rules now It is what is kevin willing to give up because I think what we're seeing in some of these We don't even know what a lot of these rules changes are but for instance one person to vacate the chair It's gonna create chaos as we've been talking about here's the thing that I think we have to take when you talk about the five or six that are kind of never Kevin's what's their motivation? So of the 21 that are voting against kevin a significant number those like they really believe I would disagree with that but they believe this is a way to get to whatever their end goal is There are a number of people particularly these five or six that enjoy being in this position They relish being the one standing up being the ones kind of throwing a wrench in this and that's what I think the concern is is If they end up being only five that's probably for them even a better situation because they get more attention Look at like matt gates, you know nominating donald trump Uh, and I think I know some of those folks and I can tell you they enjoy being the five of the six people that are gonna deny kevin A speaker should it doesn't have to be because it's kevin.

It's because they can be the ones to do it And the idea of that you might get some of them to at least vote present Uh, so this can finally resolve itself Yeah, I think it's possible if you get to like ballot 50 or 70, but I think by then Uh, I think enough and this is kind of what we have to now start watching what you guys been discussing Is how many folks in i'll just say it's the middle generically ever but your average kind of republican member of congress Is going to be worried about what's being given out They're gonna realize that at this point you're really picking a person over the health of the party and by extension the health of the country And you start floating alternative names once alternative names start getting Floted by we'll call them the regular members of congress for lack of a better term I think kevin's done at that point then he says it's the problem with some of these folks that have pledged only kevin I understand the purpose. It's like hey, where is committed as you guys are but you have to have an out because this could grind on forever And I don't think kevin can win in the long run So I was gonna say you know congressman well that assumes that so these these the 20 right let's say they've been offered something The toothpaste is on the tube and that's right. So how do you put it back in? Yeah, right?

So how do you put it back in now and say you know, you know congressman your point is like we're gonna get somebody else But the 20 if you're chip rowing these folks you're gonna say well wait We want to just wait we just we just negotiated this the new person's gonna come in say that was the old guy now with me So you know because I know look I think you're I think you're completely right. I don't know how let's say let's just use Salise's an example let's say he comes for and says now I want the motion to vacate the chair not to be one person They're not gonna go for that and that's why I think it's still not likely So I don't want to get people kind of moving around on this But there is still a possibility especially as a strags on that you end up coming to this idea of a consensus candidate an acceptable Republican the democrats The big question can you get somebody like a oc to vote for Republican? That's not for me to answer I think it'd be tough for him and then enough Republicans that say like we've seen in some of these state houses Let's have a kind of a coalition government. I actually think in the long run that would be good for healing the institution of the house But how I'm David after how likely is something like that because the Republicans who would vote with Democrats would pay a big political price for it Yeah, Adam I mean you would you would be someone to answer this question I mean my feeling is that in this political environment that is a tough decision for Republicans to make in the Republican who takes the the job to make I mean I I'm with you.

I think that would be good for the country. It would be good for the institution It would be a way of breaking the fever that you've fought to break But the question is does the politics allow for it or do you open up the door to you know civil war in the primaries again? Well, look I think if you look historically the politics doesn't allow for it But we're in a completely unprecedented moment at least in our memories where now I mean as you have five people keeping kevin the car if you ultimately from the speaker ship You could have five that create a coalition government put yourself in the mindset of some of these members of congress Let's say they come from a Biden district Let's say they've made a mental decision that this is their last term and now they have an opportunity to kind of stand up Look, it's not gonna be a democratic speaker and I think that has to be clear But an acceptable Republican that creates a level playing field and that kind of a speaker could actually create an institution that actually works So if you put yourself in the mind you only need five or six people to say it's a historic opportunity to do something to heal this institution I may not be running again. And even if I am I think maybe in two years this this is a judge Well, I'm coming from kinsinger.

How having how many of those people are them? I mean they sound like unicorns. How many are they actually do they exist? Yeah, they exist.

I mean you've heard Don Bacon for instance kind of float this idea, right? Don Bacon is a great guy Don Bacon You know represents his district. Well, he obviously is a military guy There are people with his kind of resume sort of there in the in the house of representatives that I don't think we're there yet I don't think it's gonna happen tomorrow But as this thing drags on particularly as they get concerned with these institutional things and again Americans have to be thinking What are we giving up for our country so that one single man can become speaker of the house And I think as I get some of those people's minds it might trigger some my sense when congressman bacon floated that was it was in part to put pressure on this recalcitrant group to understand that there was a time limit And if they if they push down this road that they might end up with a situation like that But executing it just seems difficult. You're saying five republicans would join the democrats to elect a speaker is that your I think there's any number of ways this could go down.

I think let's say you take Fred up his name has been floating He's a great guy. Well, it's just you somebody. I don't know if he's actually shouldn't do it But Fred Upton let's say his name is put up you can get every democratic vote for him His agreement with the democrats is I'm just gonna create a level playing field and then you get five republicans It's possible that that's how it could get done again I think we have to go through a number of these iterations still people realize it's doing real damage But I wouldn't roll it out and I think it's a small percentage chance But I do think you know when we were talking about this possibility a month ago It's certainly more possible now than it was a month ago. Yeah, and it's got you in it.

I have a question about your your views on the tolerance of these members of congress You know, they've gone through a couple of days now They've adjourned until tomorrow, you know who's to say anything productive is gonna happen tomorrow Then you go through the weekend and then we're into next week at what point do you think fatigue begins to alter the judgment of some of these folks? I mean, it's easy to be you know in transigent today or it's easy to say I'm all in on some outcome today But by Tuesday or Wednesday of next week, I was curious about your views of their of their stamina for this Well, I think for the average member of congress, they're already there. They're ready for this to be done You know you had family here. It's the weekend.

There's a lot of pressure there You know none of them will tell you on the air. They're not gonna come on say we're just tired We need to go home because obviously you have to put up this we're here to fight front The question is then who's gonna give first and if you look at the five or six From what I know of them. I've worked with them They enjoy being in this moment. They enjoy being in this position and so fatigue is certainly hitting now and it's gonna get stronger Uh, congressman king's a guy everybody stand by saying in this amount of roger just caught up with congressman mccarthy What he said in morally developments on this historic night when our source covers continue with the house adjourned for the evening and Formal embarrassing rejections in his attempt to be speaker now under his belt kevin mccarthy the republican leader has just weighed in He spoke with our own mccarthy who joins us again tonight Yeah, we just spoke to kevin mccarthy talking to him about this historic and unprecedented in modern times speakerbo going to Failing on 11 straight times.

He still is maintaining the position that he will be elected speaker He says he has no time frame for that he also defended the concessions that he has made to the far right of his conference He can't be a weaker speaker because of them and he and I asked him why did you get this resolved by the end by january third when this began? He said they tried to but they weren't able to and then when we asked him whether or not this will be resolved by tomorrow. He didn't say No, no, I'm not putting any timeline. I just think we've got some progress going on.

We got members talking I think we've got a little movement so we'll see have you had to walk back the threats to committee assignments? I didn't make this was that a mistake to make that the right I didn't make that my gronders did Yeah, well, you're saying I made the threats. Let's be very clear. I did not make the threat And no members are not going to lose their careless I love no we're working through it and make the progress today.

So we'll continue And we're three days under this is the longest since the 1850 well now the longest speech on the floor You can certainly you could give me you're giving one member to power to oust you with your speaker Argua nice way it's always been except for the last year I think I'm very fine your fire cut your potential power Undercut the power of all those But they was used over John Boehner. So why would I put my name? We have not done that since 18th, 18th. I mean, doesn't that inherently mean that you would be a weaker speaker?

No. No, I'll be a weaker speaker if I was a speaker. I'm not a weaker speaker. Are you concerned that there might be more than four who will just never vote for you?

No, I think we can. Do you kind of go to conference? Are you worried about losing votes from moderate if you give two more away? Everybody's involved there.

You've got to get there completely. Listen, can I finish your answer first? Here's a question. Thank you.

Look, this is a new thought we're going to have to have. We have a five seat majority. So it's not one side's going to get more and other. It's the entire conference.

We're going to have to learn how to work together. So it's better that we go through this process right now so we can achieve the things we want to achieve for the American public, what our commitment was. So if this takes a little longer and it doesn't meet your deadline, that's okay. Because it's not how you start.

It's how you finish. If we finish well, we'll be very successful. Do you plan on going through this one party? You've been doing this for two months though.

Why did one of these sort it out before January 3rd? Do you plan on the conference? Do you plan on the conference? Do you plan on the conference?

So that last part is saying we tried to sort it out before January 3rd. So they've been trying this for the past two months and we are in this position now. Even as they've been engaged in furious negotiations, Jake all day long, all afternoon, all night, they still do not have a deal. Even though they believe they are getting closer, they're getting some more Republican support for Kevin McCarthy.

Still won't be enough to get him to 218, but Jake, all signs are pointing to this will not be resolved by tomorrow. It will almost certainly be pushed into next week in with Kevin McCarthy's path to the speakership will remain as narrow as ever. But as you heard from him there, he still thinks he'll get there. Now one of the things that's interesting, Mondo, is that this is unprecedented entirely.

It has gone to multiple ballots before. But the last time it happened was literally 100 years ago. And the last, there have only been I think five times in history that it's gone beyond 11 ballots. And all five of those times were before the Civil War.

A number of them right leading up when this country was more divided than it has ever been until possibly now. Although you can make me argue with me, certainly it was much worse back then. But I wonder if this is indicative of these tremendous divisions. I mean back then there were, you know, this is before the major two party system.

There were Democrats, there were Democratic Republicans, there were Wigs, et cetera, et cetera. The divisions within the Republican party are so vicious right now. Yeah, and they have been building and building for years really ever since 2010, the start of the Tea Party movement. And that really saw the more typical middle of the road, establishment minded, Republicans business friendly, Republicans beat pit up against more movement conservatives, more of the far right conservatives who were ushered into power in that 2010 election.

Ultimately leading to the ouster of John Boehner as Speaker of the House in 2015. That Tea Party faction, that hard right group that encompasses the House Freedom Caucus, they're the ones who are threatening to use the power to push for John Boehner to be ousted from the speakership led John Boehner to step aside, ultimately leading to Paul Ryan to become Speaker Kevin McCarthy, didn't have the votes to become Speaker then. And now it's really built up during the Trump years to where we're seeing this serious divide between the far right and the more established and minded members of his conference. But Jake, that is the real concern for McCarthy going forward after this.

Because of that concession that he has made, give me one member, the power to call for a vote to oust a sitting speaker. He is going to go back to the rules that John Boehner had that led to Boehner's ouster. And you heard him there when I asked him about the concern. He said, I am not afraid of that.

And then he said, I'm not going to be a weaker speaker. So he is clients, he is fine with this, but it could very well meet. He could have a short lived speaker ship if he even gets there, Jake. Yeah, no, that's exactly right.

And in fact, one of those pre Civil War multiple ballot speaker ship, Deadlocks, the guy that won John Taylor, he lost the next year. It was a very weak speaker ship, Anderson. Jake, thank you so much. I will repel him, Mark, and Mary Netbiller, who has voted for McCarthy all 11 times.

I'm going to appreciate you joining us. Thanks for sticking around. Are you happy with this, German? Do you think progress can be made overnight into tomorrow?

I think the fact that we got 219 votes to adjourn. I know that seems like a, you know, a farcical thing, but that's a small victory. And yes, I think that we're going to continue this process. But people are seeing the process that typically occurs behind closed doors and what people use to laughingly referred to and derisively referred to as smoke field back rooms.

This is happening out transparently in the public's eye and they're seeing what goes on. This is part of that process is part of the process of the house and they're seeing it happen in live now and we're going to continue to work through this process and we have a speaker. And yet there are deals being made with members with holdouts. Are you do you feel like you know all the deals that are being made?

What has been given away and are you concerned about what more may need to be given away by speaker by. So certainly each and every time that there has been agreed upon so things that, you know, one party once that this faction of individuals want those have been conveyed to the rest of the house members and we've discussed those as you know, we had two very long conferences back in November. Then we've also had conference by phone and so this has been relayed to us this give and take. I think what most of us would prefer was that all of this have been done in writing and presented.

So we could have discussed it all debated at all and then gone through that orderly process that we did during the two conferences that we had at which time we discussed numerous amendments went through each and every one of them. Every member had a chance to get up and speak to debate them to to relay their concerns relay what constitutionally had been done before in the past and whether something was in alignment with the Constitution. So that deliberative process is taking place. It is ongoing and members are being informed on what's transpiring through that.

So it has been a transparent process as we go forward. Are you concerned at all about what has been negotiated thus far? Even as somebody who supports the current speaker, are you worried about the power of others to challenge him down the road? I'm not concerned about the power to challenge others.

I mean we did take a vote on that in the entire conference membership that we thought that the motion to vacate should not be at one. So we had to make sure that we had a large number and actually that we should have consistency across because we have different rules that it's so many members for a certain type of rule or to do a certain type of motion. And so there should be consistency among the rules and how many members it takes to change something. However, Kevin McCarthy met with members.

The number was dropped to five. That was conveyed to us. We as members agreed that that would be okay. We don't see that we can speak to the speakership or Kevin McCarthy.

As you know, last evening was dropped to one that was also conveyed to us. So we're all parts of different caucuses that have met with the leadership of our caucus or members of the caucus itself that have met with Leader McCarthy and have discussed this. And to this point, I mean, there are budgetary things that have been put in place or will be put in place into the House Conference rules that the majority of us agree with. And we are not concerned with those.

I think most importantly is to remember that Kevin McCarthy has considered the threats to our nation to be the debt, the border, China and our educational system. Every single person in our conference agrees with that, even the people who are not supporting Kevin McCarthy. And most importantly, we were elected because the country felt that we were on the wrong track. We feel we're on the wrong track.

Those who are not voting for Kevin McCarthy feel the country is on the wrong track. We're put in place to put the country on the right track. So we need to address the border. We need to address the untold numbers of vint-nail coming across the border.

I'm a physician, a former director of public health. As you know, last year, the CDC said there was 107,000 drug overdoses that led to the death of young people. 18 to 45. Those young people weren't killed by COVID.

They were killed by drug overdoses. So we know we need to address the border. We know we need to address the implications. But none of that will get done until there is a speaker.

And there is no end in sight at this point. What gives you confidence that at least five or possibly more hard no votes can be moved so that the math goes in favor of Mr. McCarthy? Well, certainly the numbers of no's from McCarthy haven't increased.

If you'll notice, the trend line has stayed the same. We have all stayed very stalwart in our positions both for McCarthy and those not. But then this evening, last evening, we had a challenge in getting to the numbers to adjourn. Tonight, we got to 219 to adjourn.

We know that there's progress being made. So I think what's most important is that we're patient. No good thing comes without failure. I can tell you in my life being the fourth of eight kids, no one in my family ever having gone to college.

If I would have given up at the first no, I would never have become a doctor. First one in my family to go to college. First one to get a degree. First one to go to medical school, the only doctor in my family.

I'm a member of Congress, one of 11,000 people in our history. So we know throughout our history we've had challenges. We've had obstacles. We rise to that occasion.

We will get through this. We will use patients. We'll have understanding and we'll try to meet the needs of all of those in the Republican conference so that we can get to the job of helping the Americans with inflation, helping them with the border, helping with the opioid crisis. You've also had an incredible career in the US military, and I thank you for your service, and I appreciate you continuing that service.

Thanks so much for speaking with us. Thank you. Thank you. Come on, J Anderson.

So let's chat about where we are guys. Let's chat about where we are. Where are we? Where are we?

Where are we? We're two days. We're still as lost. We're in the studio D.

Beyond that, David. I just can't get past the fact that there are all these people working really hard right now. And let's assume that most of them are operating in good faith, and they're trying to come to a deal. Chip Roy, one of the rebels, trying to get a rules package that will, in his view, democratize the process.

Still, he does not know, I don't think, how many of his fellow rebels will go along with it? And it seems very likely to me that they will, at the end of the day, be at least five who want. Well, this is the question we saw Kevin McCarthy just was asked as he was walking across the Capitol and the reporters were talking to him. And did you see Paul's room on it?

I don't know which reporter was that said, do you do you know that there are fewer than five or five or more that are going to remain opposed to you? And he stopped and he thought for a second, he said, we're going to get there. That's all that was his answer in that moment. But it's not just that Chip Roy doesn't know how many he can bring over if he signs on the rules package.

More importantly, Kevin McCarthy doesn't know how many that they're going to bring over. I mean, the work today, and I agree with you, a lot of these folks are working in earnest to try to get to resolution here. But all of that work that happened today from the McCarthy emissaries to the chip Roy's and others of the larger block of opponents, it seemed like it was just to get enough support to get adjournment tonight so that the work can actually continue. Not, not, let's get all this work done so that Kevin McCarthy can get to 180 votes and become speaker.

This was, let's get all this work done today to get to a point so we continue the work without the circus of vote after vote after vote after vote. And that's my point because for what, as Congressman Kinzinger said earlier, is this is really that important for this one guy to be speaker of the house? Like, is there really no one else who could do it? I think this is a real question.

I asked earlier who would tell Kevin McCarthy when it's time to step aside. And nobody could answer that question. Denver Riggelman suggested it was Donald Trump, but Donald Trump only got one vote today. I don't think that's going to do it, but famous acceptor of election results Donald Trump.

This group is really in a quandary because Kevin McCarthy doesn't want to step aside. And he does believe that every day that goes by maybe his chances are better. Even if he can't answer the question, can he get fine? The one thing that I think McCarthy said there that's actually very true but is a lesson that I don't know if any of these hardliners are going to learn is that they do, if they want to govern the house of representatives, if they want to assume the power that they've won, they're going to have to figure out how to work together.

And he said, you know, we've got to do this now, otherwise we're not going to be able to do anything in the future better to figure it out now. But he also looked to me, and we were talking about this in the break. This is, I think the most we've seen at Kevin McCarthy on camera, this all started. And he looked to me like a man pretty isolated, more isolated than normal.

And even stuck in that scrum without the staffers or protection from allies or people elbowing reporters out of the way, he's just kind of in there alone, definitely far from the smiling self we saw show up on Tuesday. Yeah, because the situation with the speaker nominations is you just sit there and you let other people talk about it. You don't talk for yourself, which is the way it goes. To answer your question about one man, is it really what it's about?

I want to go back to what you said. It's a proxy battle. A few hours ago. I don't know, nine hours ago.

It's a proxy battle. It's not about one man. It's about where the Republican Party is. And yes, there are people who are in the pro Kevin McCarthy camp who are sort of waffling on it, but there are a lot of them who are saying, we're going to stick with them, not necessarily because they love him, but because they don't like the other guys.

Anderson, Jake, thanks very much. Our breaking coverage continues on this remarkable night. We'll see what the White House is saying with Kevin McCarthy now. The 12th vote will make the difference.

We also have other important stories for you all ahead. We'll be right. Another night for the history books with only one thing for sure. The 11th vote was not the charm tonight for Kevin McCarthy's bid to become Speaker of the House.

No nominee, haven't received the majority of the votes, Cass. The speaker has not been elected. And with that, the 11th rejection done with about three hours shy of 11th hour and the third day of his failure to become Speaker of the Call went up to end the proceedings until noon tomorrow. The question is on the motion that the House stands adjourned until noon tomorrow.

Those in favor say aye. Those opposed? No. And the opinion of the chair, the noes have it.

The yeas and nays are requested. Those favor by the yeas and nays will rise. A sufficient number having risen, the yeas and nays are ordered. Members will record their votes by electronic device.

While the counting was down, the motion to adjourn prevailed. The day ended without Congressman McCarthy having won over a single holdout despite more arm twisting well as the evening. As Monrojo spoke with him, a short time ago he joins us again. Yeah, he, Governor McCarthy still believes that there is a path to the speakership despite losing 11 times, despite seeing the first multiple ballot speaker election occur in a century and seeing this many ballots since the middle 1800s.

He still believes he will get there because behind the scenes there have been intense negotiations over the last day. The House is a vote to call for a city speaker's ouster. Something he considered a red line, something he conceded on, something that some of his own fellow Republicans are concerned could weaken the speakership assuming he gets there. Immediately after the 11th failed vote, he came out.

I had a chance to speak with him along with some other reporters and we asked him about all these issues. He defended the concessions he's made. He said he will not become a weaker speaker. And when we asked him about whether this would be done by tomorrow, he indicated it probably wouldn't.

No, no, no, I'm not going to any timeline. I just think we've got some progress going on. We've got a member stock. I think we've got a little movement.

So we'll see. Have you had to walk back to the rest of your strip committee assignments? No, we're not. I didn't make this right.

Was that a mistake to make that the right? I didn't make that. My garage is dead. Yeah, well, you're saying I made this right.

So let's be very clear. I did not make this threat. And no members are not going to lose their community. You know, we're going to have to start a drag out for at this point.

I'd love to know that we're working through and making progress today. So we'll continue to talk. You're going to never go for you. I'm going to take this one.

And we're three days under this. This is the longest since the 1850. Well, I have the longest speech on the floor. So apparently I like to make it.

Oh, you can start. I mean, you're giving one member the power to oust you with your speaker. That's the way it's always been a step for the last year. I think I'm very fine.

You're fine. You're a thousand thousand thousand thousand. That's a kind of undercut the power of all those. But it was used over John Boehner.

So why would I cut by him? We have been this since 1859. I mean, doesn't that inherently mean that you would be a weaker speaker? No.

No, it won't be a weaker speaker if I was a speaker. I'm not weak. Are you concerned that there might be more than four who will just never vote for you? One of the Republicans.

No, I think we're going to. Do you play the conference? Are you worried about losing votes from moderate to give two-luck away? Everybody's involved in it.

He's got to get there completely. Listen, can I finish his answer first? Here's a question. Thank you.

Look, this is a new thought we're going to have to have. We have a five-seat majority. So it's not one side is going to get more than another. It's the entire conference.

We're going to have to learn how to work together. So it's better that we go through this process right now. So we can achieve the things we want to achieve for the American public. What our commitment was.

So if this takes a little longer and it doesn't meet your deadline, that's okay. Because it's not how you start. It's how you finish. If we finish well, we'll be very successful.

Do you play the conference? You've been doing this for two months though. Why do one of these sort it out before January? Do you play the conference?

Do you play the conference? One of the reasons why this is going to take a little bit longer as he said is that even if there is a deal that's reaching it appears, there's one that has to be reached with a handful of those holdouts. That does not get him the magic number of 218 votes. Perhaps it can bring along maybe ten Republican members, but certainly not all of the votes.

Which is why behind the scenes there is going to be a furious effort to get those other remaining holdouts to resolve their concerns. And that could take some time as well. And the other complicating factors, several members of the House Republican conference have left town or planned to leave town tomorrow because of various family issues and the like. And they won't have the number of votes.

They need to elect Kevin McCarthy speaker on Friday. So it appears very likely this rags into the weekend, into next week. And we'll see. Maybe even longer.

Maraju, appreciate it. Thanks now back with our panel. First of all, just if they don't have enough people tomorrow, will they just try to adjourn it first thing when they get together tomorrow? Well, I think it depends how many people they have.

I don't think they're going to jeopardize anything. He's been getting 200 votes. I don't think if he gets 196. So long as the number doesn't drift in a way that Hakeem Jeffries could win.

I think they want the time to continue to negotiate. Although I think what you'll find, it's a very awkward day to be going through this battle two years to the day after the insurrection at the Capitol. And I would imagine that the nominating speeches for Hakeem Jeffries are going to very much focus on that anniversary. Karen would Democrats have a motivation to intervene to get McCarthy over the finish line at some point?

Absolutely not. Certainly not tomorrow. Let's just be honest. Certainly not tomorrow.

Because again, think it just to David's point. Think about what that contrast is going to look like. You're going to have on one side of the screen, President Biden, the Vice President of a very somber day and remembrances. And then you'll have these speeches.

The nominating speeches for Hakeem. I agree with David. But then you've got these holdout. Is it five?

Is it six? Is it seven? Is it eight? We saw it earlier today.

Bigs doing fundraising emails, right? Who some of whom, if chaos is their brand, they see tomorrow actually as an opportunity to continue to say, we are the ones who are stopping Kevin McCarthy. We are the ones who are standing up for whatever it is they're standing up for. And again, I just think we need to take a step back here.

I mean, the other thing, the reason why I don't think Democrats are in a position yet to help Kevin McCarthy is, I think we have to ignore this is a complete failure of Kevin McCarthy's leadership abilities. The fact that we are, I mean, you heard him say to Monique, we did negotiate. We have been negotiating. And here we are three days later.

And the numbers really haven't shifted very much. But that assumes you have people on the other side that wanted to go straight, right? So we started this a long time ago, right? Assuming you have a rational actor sitting across the table from you saying, here's what I offer.

What would you like to offer in return? When you say here's what I like to offer. And somebody says, screw you across the table. You can't really negotiate, right?

So I think that's where we are at some point. And we don't know to your point, you know, Karen, until we actually know the definitive number of people, right? If it's four, five, six, seven, eight, it's a lot of speculation. When would Kevin McCarthy walk away?

Like, we don't know what that number is. If we know that number is eight of people, nine people that are never going away, we end up going away a lot sooner. If they're four or five people, Kevin McCarthy is never going to go away. I think he's going to grind him down.

You know, it was striking when he said, well, you know, we have only a five-vote majority, and that makes it difficult and so on. Well, Nancy Pelosi had a five-vote majority as well. And there were people who ran pledging not to support her for speaker, and as she has over the last two decades, she managed to put the puzzle together. And nobody remembers the speaker's vote from January 3rd of 2021.

How did she put that puzzle together? Person by person, the person asking, you know, what people needed, what assurances they needed. She also, you know, she suggested a couple of people they have a president, it reduced the threshold she needed. She won with 216 votes.

The point is, you know, she was a very deft leader. And this is a leadership test for McCarthy. And frankly, he's not doing very well. Last thing on this, though, you know, we've been beating him up all day because it has been a failure on his part.

And he didn't look particularly confident there. But, you know, when Jamie Gengel said, well, why do people stick with this one man? And when Adam said that, the answer is he's done a lot for a lot of these members. He's raised a lot of money for them.

He's recruited a lot of them. His PAC spent $350 million is super PAC in these campaigns. That's the kind of currency binds you. And so they may not respect him in some ways, but they feel some loyalty to him.

I think they like him. Many of them like him. So, you know, that's why they're not just, they're not rushing to the doors here. Just texting with a member who's been communicating with McCarthy since he came out of that meeting with the 20.

I guess they're producing a document tonight. They're quite confident that a large chunk of that 20 is going to come home. But there's not really a plan for these intransigence for these people who say they're never, ever. The hope would be that if a Scott Perry and a chip Roy comes out swinging and says, we've got everything we've ever possibly wanted, but it really puts that holdout group on an island.

Now, the trouble is they're already on the island of Misfit Toys. I'm not sure what putting them on a different island is going to mean to them. But that's where we are, is there's a plan for some of the holdouts, but there is no plan for the five day. But again, you need to know the specific number.

You've got to count noses and know how many there are, and then you develop a plan based on that. The plan for five is different than the plan for eight. Yeah. He must be seeing his life flash before his eyes because this is exactly what happened in 2015, a group of people in the Freedom Caucus denied him the speakership that everybody thought that he would get.

And he spent all these years catering to them and appealing to them, and now he's in the same position. Everyone stand by a next alive report from the White House, when the President makes it all this, and later the frankly stunning details from authorities on the evidence that led to the arrest of the alleged killer for University of Idaho students. Some late reporting just in a source familiar with the matter telling CNN that house Republicans are scheduled to hold a conference call tomorrow, the source telling us that Kevin McCarthy and his allies have wanted to avoid another in-person conference wide meeting after yesterday's meeting led to private tensions spilling out into public view. The thought now being a call could potentially minimize that.

So with that and the House adjourned until noon tomorrow, when I check in quickly on the other independence of any avenues, he's filming at the White House for tonight. So what is the view from the White House from President Biden? Yeah, the White House officials Anderson made very clear they don't want to engage on this issue. The President said several times this is a Republican issue, this is not my problem at this point in time.

And to some degree, the public actions that we've seen from the President have very much tracked with that, holding his normal schedule, trying to really demonstrate almost unintentional contrast on some level that the White House is working on the implementation of the major laws they passed in their first two years, talking about policy issues, laying out in detail kind of a road map what the President is going to be doing in the months ahead, as House Republicans can't seem to get their act together on the first issue that they need to deal with. But behind the scenes officials make clear they are watching this very closely. It's on every single television inside the White House throughout the course of the day. In some degree, you've seen the President go through an evolution of emotions as he's watched this play out.

I think there's certainly been a level of confusion, definitely a level of frustration, very much so, a level of concern, particularly in how foreign countries or others may be viewing the United States and the ability of the U.S. to actually govern itself, given what we've seen on the House floor. But today there was also a sense of just general buffuntlement, I think, when he was asked by our colleague Jeremy Diamond how he was watching things play out. Take a listen.

Are you still watching? Are you following the great... I'm going to say it. The smile on the laughs saying a lot there, particularly because officials Anderson had made clear, the President is not amused by this.

He does not find it funny or see any level in Sean Farra and what's been happening right now. But there's no doubt when you talk to officials, given how this continues to drag on, with no clear endgame insight, at least at this moment, to actually get this over the finish line. On some level, you can really do is laugh. Is the administration saying anything about potential national security impacts or economic impacts along with this goes on?

Yeah, it's been an interesting dynamic over the course of the last several days as we look at the repercussions of what not having a speaker in place actually means. National security is one of those issues that's been affected. Now, White House officials have said that they've tried to kind of unofficially continue to brief members of Congress to ensure that the critical members on the critical committees are aware of what's going on. But there's a reality here.

Until members are sworn in, they do not have access to the secure facilities they need to read classified documents to receive classified briefings at the highest level. Some meetings with top military officials and intelligence officials with House Republicans have been canceled up to this point and some House Republicans have made very clear their frustrations about that very issue. It's one issue when you talk about it as officials to say, look, it's not a huge problem right now, but if it compounds over the time, it certainly could be more than anything else. They just want this to end, to some degree.

Yeah, Phil Madone, thanks back now with the panel. I mean, it's interesting to hear from President Biden, David. He's obviously an institutionalist. He's served in Congress for many years.

Does he benefit from this? Does the White House benefit from this? Does that political sound? Well, I think that Biden was elected in certain ways as an antidote to the chaos of the Bush years because he is an institutionalist and he's seen as a calming influence.

I think Democrats did better than expected in the midterm elections for the same reason. There was a contrast between Trump and some of the extreme election denier candidates and Biden as a calmer influence. And so the contrast here, Phil said they may not have intended to set up a contrast. If they didn't, they should claim they did because it was pretty deft to be out there yesterday in Kentucky with Mitch McConnell and Governor DeWine dedicating a bridge.

It's pretty deft and appropriate as well to be out tomorrow commemorating January 6th. And because it obviously was a hugely important date. But the contrast is going to be clear. And particularly because some of the players in the drama in the House were the very people who were involved in, in some way, in the activity surrounding the insurrection.

So, you know, I think that he does benefit from it, but I think he's wise not to chortle about it, not to claim credit, not to celebrate it. I would say this of all Democrats because at the end of the day, I don't think the American people are viewing this as amusing. I think they're viewing it as pathetic. And they don't want people looking like they're seizing political advantage from it.

I think setting up a contrast is the right way to go. So tomorrow, if there's a conference call in the morning, you said there might be a paper being circulated tonight? Yeah. What's the...

Well, I mean, the hope would be that overnight you reel in as many of this 20 that you can get. And then when they gavel in tomorrow at noon, there's a vote pretty soon after that that really shows you how much progress is made. So, some of the 20 people out. And then today's point, then you start to get a real sense of, okay, who are the truly entrangent?

Is that four or five or eight? You know, how many truly are never going to be persuaded? And then you can start to make a plan from there. So now, how many votes will that take tomorrow?

Will this document and this conference call on these overnight conversations be persuasive? How many more hours or how many more ballots will they have to go through to get to that point? But at some point, you have to get clear on the algebra. How many do I have?

How many are Fermi and how many are Gimmi? And that's what we don't truly know inside that 20 with this deal that's apparently been cut. And you're not going to get there because you have four or five folks not there tomorrow, right? That's right.

They will be able to see if there are no coverage. Absolutely. But you don't expect to see speaker tomorrow. No.

At any point. Guys, think of it this way though. For Kevin McCarthy, he's going to go through all of this. What's to say that Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday of next week?

Let's say he becomes the speaker tomorrow. Pretend that could happen. That we're not back here all over again because the one person who decides to say he's out, we don't let you know. He broke the deal that we agreed to and we're not right back here.

I mean, it feels like things are so fragile. And David, you keep talking about grinding it out. But the thing about negotiating with people, right, is the more you're grinding it out, sure, you could be building trust, but you're also eroding trust. You're also deepening the grooves of those hardened feelings of the resentment that people already seem to have about McCarthy.

And so I mean, I just think it's important that we remember while we're in the details and the devil in this detail's matter, in the big picture where we end up. It's going to matter greatly for this country in terms of our building. I don't think McCarthy's building trust. I don't think McCarthy's building trust.

I think it's a matter of grinding it out, grinding it down, right? So who's going to wait the battle of wills at this point, right? Who's going to blink? Who's going to bend?

We know some people aren't going to bend, right? I think he's building, if it's true, he's convinced Chip Roy and his faction to come over. He obviously did build some trust with him. Now, I think he's trying to get more transactional, right?

I want this. You have trust that you're a man of your work. I mean, you have to trust that the person you're doing to deal with will actually do it. Well, they reduce it to writing.

I'm not so sure how much trust there's a handshake. It's not a handshake. It's the Magna Carta. I know you all want to stay here much longer.

Please. I heard that New Year's Eve game. Thanks so much. Coming up, we've got some pickle shoes for you.

I want to talk to some of the other major news of the day, including the first appearance. In an Idaho courtroom, by the suspect charged in murders of four university Idaho students, also newly released evidence, authorities say connects him to the killings. I'm waiting for my time. We have more breaking news tonight.

A law enforcement source tell CNN that the loan suspect in the murders of four Idaho college students was seeing cleaning his car, quote, inside and outside, not missing an inch, end quote. This was outside Brian Coburgers parents' house in Pennsylvania after the murders. He was seen wearing surgical gloves at the time and also seen the garbage bags in place in the neighbors bins, more, and a lot more on that in a moment. Today, Coburger appeared in an Idaho courtroom for the first time.

He did not enter a plea. However, authorities released an affidavit that details the evidence that led to his arrest on four counts of first-week murder. He's seen his carotuckment has been following this now for a long time. He has more.

Brian Coburger, in a Moscow Idaho courtroom, only a five minute drive away from the crime scene. The maximum penalty for this event, if you were to be guilty or be found guilty, is death or imprisonment for life. Do you understand? Yes.

Charged with four counts of murder. He accused killer with zero visible emotion on his face. Just before his initial court appearance began, the unsealing of the probable cause affidavit, with disturbing evidence, and the case of the crime, the case of the crime, the case of the case of the crime scene. We've known two other roommates were in the house on the morning of the murders, but it was a mystery if either of them heard or saw anything.

Now we know. A roommate with the initials DM told investigators she was in her room and heard crying. The affidavit, prepared by a Moscow Idaho police corporal, has this disturbing detail. She opened the door for the third time after she heard the crime, and a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her.

DM described the figure as five-tenner taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past DM and she stood in a frozen shock phase. The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. DM lacked herself in a room after seeing the male.

DM did not state that she recognized the male. The affidavit said that earlier when DM heard crying from one of the victim's rooms, she heard a male voice say something to the effect of, it's okay. I'm going to help you. It's not clear if the intruder ever saw a DM.

DM's description helped provide valuable information when police found a Hyundai Elantra and an apartment building 15 minutes across the state line in Pullman, Washington. The man here and learn the owner matched that description, and the affidavit has this chilling set of details. The police officer saying is he entered one of the bedrooms, I could see two females in the single bed in the room, both Kaylee Gonzavas and Madison Muffin. The police officer said that the police were not going to be able to take on Saves and Madison Muffin were deceased with visible stab wounds.

I also later noticed what appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath laying on the bed next to Madison Muffin's right side. The sheath was later processed and had K-Bar, which is a company that makes military and tactical knives, USMC, and the United States Marine Corps Eagle Globe and Anchor and Signeus snapped on the outside of it. The Idaho State Lab later located a single source of male DNA left on the button snap of the knife sheath. And according to the affidavit, last week, Pennsylvania agents recovered the trash from the Coburger family residents located in Albrightville, Pennsylvania.

Other DNA proved that what they found in the murder house is the sun's DNA. Police have determined the murders were carried out between 4 and 4.25 AM. A review of footage from multiple videos obtained from the King Road neighborhood showed multiple sightings of suspect vehicle 1 starting at 3.29 AM and ending at 4.20 AM. Upon review of the video, there are only a few cars that enter and exit this area during time frame.

While details on the affidavit are specific, it's still not clear if police know of a motivation for the killings or if the accused murderer knew any of the victims. But based on the affidavit, it appears the accused murderer targeted this house. Between June and the date of the murder in November, the police officer says Coburger's cell phone signal was received 12 times near the house of the victims over a period of 5 months before the stabbings. All of these occasions, except for one, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of the respective days.

We are there. These details only add to the pain of the victim's family members, some of whom were in court for this hearing. It's obviously an emotional time for the family seeing the defendant for the first time. This is the beginning of the criminal justice system and the family will be here for the long haul.

Gary Tuckman joins us in the live from Idaho. I'm sorry, the details in that affidavit are really stunning. It seems like he, I don't know, stalking is the right word, but certainly casing that property for a long time late at night in the early morning hours of the course of several months. Anything else stand out to you in the affidavit?

Yeah, there is a detail, Anderson, that stands out to me. And that's this. According to the affidavit, police say Coburger's cell phone signal was again detected 5 hours after the stabbings in the same neighborhood with the houses. Basically, the inferences that the alleged killer went back to the house after the sun came up.

That's something that I've been appreciating. I'm joined out by Mary Ellen O'Toole, retired FBI Special Agent and Legendary Profiler. Also John Miller, she's a law enforcement and intelligence analyst. John, some of you are reporting, we want to start with that.

We mentioned in the Intrudergaries report about what the suspect was allegedly doing. His family's home in Pennsylvania involves garbage bags. What have you learned on that? So just to give that some context, Anderson, you've got the Pennsylvania State Police and FBI surveillance team in a rural area where it's very hard to do surveillance because, you know, strange cars would stand out.

So they're watching the house from a distance. And what I'm told by the law enforcement sources that Coburger comes out a number of times. He cleans the car extensively, almost as if you were going to clean it to sell it as a new car inside, outside every inch of it. And during much of these trips in and outside of the house, the source says he's wearing surgical gloves.

This is what they're observing in the surveillance. The other thing is, there's a period where he comes out at four o'clock in the morning with two bags of garbage, walks by their own garbage and puts it in the neighbor's bins. So when they did the trash cover to recover his garbage, they took that as well. And of course, that is the search that led to the recovery of DNA, which then matched to the sheath and the knife according to the affidavit.