To Catch a Fascist: The Ethics of Unmasking the Radical Right

An anti-fascist spy handed American officials evidence of murderous intent from a Nazi planning server — and they declined to act.About the GuestChristopher Mathias is a journalist covering the far right, formerly a senior reporter at HuffPost, with work appearing in The Guardian, The Nation, MSNBC, Zeteo, and WNYC. His reporting has helped unmask white supremacist cops, soldiers, teachers, and politicians, and he was a Deadline Awards finalist for feature writing. He is originally from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania and lives in New York. His new book, To Catch a Fascist: The Fight to Expose the Radical Right (Atria Books), is out now.About the EpisodeDays after Jonathan Rauch’s influential Atlantic essay announced he’d moved from fascism skeptic to fascism believer, Christopher Mathias joins the show to discuss his new book — a deeply reported investigation into the decentralized network of anti-fascist activists who infiltrate, monitor, and expose neo-Nazis and white supremacists operating in positions of power across America.The conversation quickly moves beyond whether Trump is a fascist to the harder questions his book raises: Who gets to decide who is exposed? What rights to privacy do members of extremist groups retain? Is unmasking community self-defense or vigilantism? And does the same logic that justifies exposing a neo-Nazi EMT extend to the tens of thousands of ICE agents now conducting raids on American streets?Timeline00:00 Introduction Jonathan Rauch’s Atlantic essay and the renewed fascism debate01:10 Meet Christopher Mathias Introducing the book and the journalist behind it01:45 The Greenville Moment When Mathias first used “fascist” in a headline after watching Trump whip a crowd into chanting “Send her back”02:40 Defining the F-Word Fascism as a right-wing politics of domination; Langston Hughes recognizing it in the 1930s before the word arrived04:15 The Hard Question If MAGA is a fascist movement, are the 70-plus million who voted for Trump fascists too?05:55 The Worst of the Worst Why the book targets explicit neo-Nazis in positions of power, not ordinary Trump supporters08:15 Who Decides? Privacy, accountability, and whether everyone at Charlottesville deserves exposure10:45 Antifascist Amnesty Leave the movement and we leave you alone; return and we publish12:30 The Equivalence Trap Why Mathias rejects the idea that this is just radicals exposing radicals14:05 From Neo-Nazis to ICE How anti-fascist tactics are now used to identify masked federal agents17:15 Where Does It End? Drawing lines between violent enforcement and bureaucratic participation19:40 “Just Following Orders” Why some orders shouldn’t be followed, and the occupation of Minneapolis21:30 The Battle Over Shame Competing databases, surveillance, and what America should be ashamed of23:15 The Spy Who Warned Charlottesville An infiltrator uncovers plans for violence that officials ignore26:00 Minneapolis as Model “We protect us” and a blueprint for grassroots resistance28:45 The Underground War Intelligence, counterintelligence, and the personal cost of exposure30:30 Closing Fascism as a snake eating its own tail and the urgent task of limiting the damageLinks & ReferencesMentioned in this episode:Jonathan Rauch, “Yes, It’s Fascism” — The Atlantic (January 2026)To Catch a Fascist: The Fight to Expose the Radical Right by Christopher Mathias (Atria Books, February 2026)Christopher Mathias reporting archiveFollow Christopher Mathias: BlueSky | XAbout Keen On America Nobody asks more impertinent questions than the Anglo-American writer, filmmaker and Silicon Valley entrepreneur Andrew Keen. In Keen On America , Andrew brings his sharp Transatlantic wit to the forces reshaping the United States — hosting daily interviews with leading thinkersand writers about American history, politics, technology, culture, and business. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.Website | Substack | YouTubeWebsite | Substack | YouTube