What is going on everybody welcome into the Daily Wolves courtside today? I'm here today. I'm joined here by my friend, Tim Garrison. Tim, how you doing today?
I'm doing well, Matt. I appreciate you having me on on this snowy Sunday morning. We are looking at trade season. How we feeling?
Dude, it is my one of my favorite times. I shouldn't say favorite time, but one of my favorite times just as an NBA fan. And you know, we have one of the more aggressive GMs and basketballs. So how can you not be excited for a time like this to come?
Absolutely. It kind of feels like we're just in this waiting game for the past couple of weeks. Yeah, the the honest news come out. We're kind of waiting for the tradesies in the pickup.
We had Trey young get dealt nearly January and it's been crickets until last night when the Kings Bulls and the Cavaliers make their the first big splash of the trade. Well, second big splash of the trade season sending the Andre Hunter out to the Kings and you know, the Cavaliers cut a lot of salary. They get Dennis Schroeder and and Keyon Ellis, which removes a piece off the board. And I think you and I were talking yesterday.
We just wanted to get on because Keyon was one of the targets. We wanted to talk about what's out there heading into deadline week, what's realistic and all the directions we could potentially take here. So just wanted to kind of start off as a couple of things I wanted to go over. First off, like where do we sit?
Our temple's cap situation. The table is are just below the second apron. We have 3.56 million in space under the second apron deadline. Excuse me, second apron threshold.
So why that second apron matters is because of a rule where you cannot be in the second apron for three years out of five. And if you do, you start getting your picks rose in seven years out. The team rules are going to want to avoid that as much as possible and try to reset that clock so they don't cross into that threshold and they start getting picks rose in. So when you hear people talking about the second apron, that is going to be essentially our salary cap limit probably for the next couple of years.
Now, there's a couple things we can do. It's not much space, but I want before we dive into trade targets, I just wanted to go over a couple or two items, two exceptions available to the table. So the wolves let Nikhil Alexander Walker go. And in that move created trade exception.
Now, I've seen a lot of people say, oh, we can use the trade exception to take back more salary, but because we're a first apron team, we can use that to absorb a salary. So say Kian Ellis was still on the board, we could absorb his 2.2 MBA minimum contract, but you cannot use a trade exception in the first apron as a way to extend salary as a salary match. So for example, in a Malik monk trade, Rob Dillingham and Mike Conley make 17.3 million. You cannot use that trade exception to get to the 18.8 million in salary match for Malik monk.
It doesn't, it's not a legal trade. You can't do that. The other exception the Timbules have is their taxpayer exception. This is essentially a mid level we did not use it this summer.
So the Timbules have full access to their mid level exception, which is about 5.8 65 million. So why is that relevant? It probably isn't, but that exception will allow us to go over the minimum to be able to send a free agent. So where that could come into play would be, you know, a big time buyout guy from the available, we can offer more than the minimum to go with that player.
So those are the two exceptions. Just wanted to talk about that. I've got a lot of feedback on Twitter just saying, oh, we can use the trade exception. Well, we can, well, we can, but we can't to use it to match.
So with that out of the way, just wanted to lay the groundwork as we head into this discussion, make sure we're on point, make sure that we cover those two bases. I just wanted to kick it off to you and I wanted to hear your trade talk. It says we head into the week. Yeah.
So the wolves, we kind of like found ourselves in a different spot, almost and I feel it to a certain degree than we were like a week prior to the five game losing streak. Cause prior to that, you had your trade talks of, oh, well, we need, we might need a big guy, we might need, we need a bench score. But with the emergence of Johann, it really kind of takes the focus from maybe we need another big to, okay, what it looks like we need is a guard, whether it's a point guard, whether it's a score off the bench that can come off and take some of the load, some of the pressure off naz, whoever it may be bones. So for me, right now, I think that my favorite trade target is one of the bulls' guards and a lot of people are, but I am more in the AODUSUMU realm of things.
He's on a little bit of a cheaper deal. His contract is up this year. So that's what $7.5 million that we can just essentially have a trial run with, if you must versus Kobe White, you're kind of locked down through the 27 and 28 season unless you do move him. Something doesn't work out.
So I guess first things first, I guess, let's just kind of talk about AO. Like what would it take to bring an AODUSUMU type of player to Minnesota, somebody who doesn't need the ball to be effective, somebody who can guard the positions two through four while being an oversized, stocky kind of guard. So I guess where are you sitting on AO? First off, before we get to the money things, do you think that he would fit with our team?
Or what's kind of your two cents on it? Yeah. So AO is absolutely one of my favorite targets. He's having a mini breakout and quite frankly, it's one of those guys that I think the bulls would be fools to let go of.
You know, I think he's been buried behind a lot of guard play. You know, he had Zach Levine before he got traded at the Kings. You have Giddy now that they invested a ton of assets and money and future money into. And then Kobe White is above him as well.
I think AO DeSuneo, he has fallen as a fender. But he's also playing for a middling team in the bulls. I think that that defense is still in there and it could come out in the right culture, especially when his role isn't necessarily go score as many points as possible and put up some film. Because that's what he's doing right now in the bulls, put a good film in the next contract.
I think that that defender and team player is still in there. And I think it's a phenomenal target with upside too. I mean, he just scored 29 points, nine assists, eight rebounds last night. I mean, he's been pretty incredible.
I think in terms of targets that are realistic with the contracts we have and maybe the assets. I think he's about the top end that we could get. He's ideal for that seventh man. He's kind of like a non-replacement.
He's a walker replacement. Barely similar. He's a combo guard. He's not really a point guard.
But he can break the paint. He can use his gravity to create for his teammates. And he's been an elite shooter this year. So very long roundabout way of saying, I think that is a perfect target.
So we could probably get in. Should we start with AO? Go over what that looks like? Let's go with it.
Let's get to it. Yeah. So let's see here. Right now what we're looking at is the Timbels payroll for the next couple of years.
We currently have 14 master spots. This is 15, but this is accounting for this empty spot. Now, I understand, you mentioned it. He's on a cheaper deal.
He makes $7.5 million. That is a value. We're going to add him in here. Here's a 7.5 million.
That is a value that we can comfortably salary match. I'm not sure how much the bulls are going to value Rob Gyllenhaem. So I think the linchmen of this deal is probably going to be Tarrant and Junior. You're probably going to have to give him up.
That hurts. I think TJ, he's still a really good player. I think he's had some injury issues in those footages. You're those foot injuries can be really difficult and tricky.
But at the same time, we need a seventh man now. And if you get A.O. to soon, he's probably going to be playing the role you had in mind for Tarrant and Junior. So you're probably looking at adding Tarrant and Junior is 2.6 million with Rob 6.5.
That gets you to just around 9.2 million in salary match for AO 7.5 million. So we can go ahead and take Rob Gyllenhaem and TJ off the board. Now, there's probably going to be some draft compensation involved here. The same rules have two second round picks that are honestly probably a throw away.
There's not a chance that the wolves are selecting three rookies. We also have a first round pick. I view those second round picks as just cannon fodder this year. We're not going to use them.
They're probably going to become cash considerations if we can't get off of them. So the other option is if the bulls are trying to keep AO, and this is where I have some pods, you're probably going to have to offer up a pick swap. Maybe 2028 picks to get the bulls to be like, all right, you could probably lottery protect it. But the bulls are probably going to need some incentive to get off AO.
And it's likely going to cost that damage engineer Rob Gyllenhaem, the second round picks, and you might have to offer up a top four protected pick swap. That would essentially take us out of a future Yannes trade if you give up that pick swap flexibility. But I'm trying to be realistic on the value. It's you're going to get his an expiring contract, but he's a good player that's indicated.
He wants to stay in Chicago. So phenomenal fit. If you can get him for TJ, Rob in a couple of seconds, I think the deal is signed, sealed, delivered, and Tim Connolly is sprinting to Adam Silver to get that finalized. Absolutely.
More than likely. And this is probably what, you know, he'll deal as you're probably going to have to do a picks swap. So what are your thoughts on that? What's your take?
Yeah, I actually really like it. And there's going to be a lot of fans out there that are going to be super hesitant to even include Rob or TJ in a trade. And I think if you guys have just been active on social media throughout the wolves Twitter and even throughout the NBA community, it's, I don't want to say it's pretty safe to say, but it's looking like Rob's time with the wolves is going to be up here within the next week. It's unfortunate that he didn't work.
He was a great prospect. He just didn't fit the timeline. We don't have time to break in a 19 year old guard who turns the ball over. And there's a lot of people on the other end of the spectrum who are like, you know, we can't trade Terence Shannon.
And while Terence Shannon had played super well in his playoff stint last year, when he got minutes towards the end of the regular season and was damn near the Summer League MVP this year, there are some kind of some glaring issues with TJ's game too. You already mentioned the foot injury. I don't want to just focus on the negatives. Obviously he's a powerhouse.
He's he's lightning quake. He can get downhill. But if you're in the NBA and you are going to get downhill, you got to be able to use the right hand. I watched a lot of Big Ten basketball when TJ was in college in New Zealand, Illinois.
I don't know if I've ever seen Terence Shannon try to finish with the right hand. And I think a little bit of his playoffs success last year was kind of just due to teams not having film on TJ. And that catches up to you in the league. You need to be versatile.
You need to be able to finish through contact, finish with both hands. So kind of where I'm at with it is if you're the Wolves and you're in a win now role, and like you said, you're missing the seventh option. You're missing the Nikhil role. Ayo do soon was the perfect fit in my opinion.
Yeah. So yeah, if you're in my opinion, Ayo's the guy that we have to go for. There's obviously other trade targets out there that would benefit this team just in different ways than Ayo. Like I think Kobe White would benefit us too.
So I know that we brought him up earlier, but I think he's going to give us more of a scoring punch. More of an offensive upside. Absolutely. Yeah, it's just kind of if you're Tim Conley and you're the Wolves, it's what are you prioritizing?
Are you prioritizing bench scoring or are you going to prioritize a hardworking player? I guess we'll say that a hardworking player who has a high motor who's willing to do the things that aren't going to show up necessarily in the box score. So I think that's just kind of what the trade deadline is going to come down to for the Wolves. I guess is there any other guys that kind of catch your eye that you think the Wolves might make a before make a call for?
Yeah. So you know, Kobe White, that's a good bring. I'm happy about him up. Before we move on from the Bulls cards, I just want to add really quick.
One of the main reasons why I like Ayo is the flexibility to resign him. If you make that move to J&ROB, you have almost 35 million in cap space under that second apron next year. That is plenty to fill out the roster with a couple of minimums. You can use your full almost 6 million by receiving taxpayer exception.
So that's another contributor you can pick up in free agency. And you have plenty left over to sign Ayo to, you know, a 15 to 20 million already. And that goes for Kobe White too. So the one hesitation I have for Kobe White before we move on from him is can you get him for 20 million or 21 million?
If he's going to go for more than 20 million, you're looking at a rental and it's probably going to also cost you the pick swap I talked about in Ayo. So not only are you going to forego your flexibility to go make a run at Yannes this summer, but this is it's for a rental. And that's I really struggled to see Kobe just because of those variables. You're giving up flexibility to go after Yannes.
And if you're only going to have about 18 to 21 and 22 million is pushing it to sign him. I mean, you're talking about an expensive rental that impacts your flexibility this summer. So that's my concern. I love Kobe White.
Don't take that as like, you know, Tim is against Kobe White. I would love nothing more than replace my economy in line up with Kobe, a 20 point score. There's just some logistics that we have to think about long term. We have to get these margin moves right.
We have so much limited cap space and picks that we have to get these moves right. We can't ship them all out when it's 24 for a guy that's a rental. Okay, so without off my chest, there are a couple more options. We started the podcast talking about trade season.
The king's been moved last night, three way deal to Chicago, Cleveland and the kings. So a name that I actually tweeted out yesterday saying is impossible or it's not going to happen is Malik Monk. Well, because of the move where the king's opened up roster spots, Malik Monk is now a feasible option. So if you want to go ahead and if you want to put up that, I'm going to go over some of the league monk here.
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Big shout out to Seakeek for sponsoring today's episode and back to what you were saying about Malik Monk. Yeah. So Malik Monk is somebody that is on kind of a bloated contract. He has some defensive issues.
He's got some juice offensively. He's having a down year. And those red flags, the defense and the bloated contract, that's going to be why he's a choir for the package that we have. What I'm talking about is a Mike Conley, Rob Dillinghamm, who's a depressed asset, and then a flyer on a Leonard Miller.
Because the Kings made that move, they now have open roster spots to be able to accept two additional contracts and a three for one type move. Three for ones are usually very rare, but now the conditions are there where they could theoretically accept that offer from the wolves. So let's do that. Let's get rid of Mike and his 10.7 and let's get rid of Leonard Miller.
And you could probably sweeten the deal with those two second round picks. As I mentioned, they're pretty inconsequential for Minnesota. So that move would leave Minnesota with 12 roster spots. After getting a League Monkey in.
Now, one little nugget is, okay, we have 4.3 million in space. We can sign a veteran minimum and a veteran minimum is going to be pro rated based on the league date. So what that means is the league starts on October 21st. And each day that passes, that pro ration cuts into it.
It's about 13,000 a day. So as of today on February 1st, a league minimum is going to be around 900,000. So we can afford to maybe guarantee a Johnny Joo-Zang and get up to that immediate 13 roster spots that's required by NBA compliance. So if you do that, you guarantee him you put 900,000 here.
We still have plenty of space to fill out the roster and get to, you know, a 14 legal roster. So Malik Monk, because he has all that scoring juice, is somebody that if you're going to play him over Mike Conley, he's going to really impact and give you more bankability off the bench for offense. Now, I'm not 100% sold on Malik, but there's a couple variables here I wanted to talk about and why his acquiring his contract could be beneficial. So next year, he's old, 20 million and the year after 21 million.
Let's say we get him and he's, you know, pedestrian, he's volatile, and maybe he's not the best move. All of a sudden, we have a $20 million contract you could use as a filler with Julius Randall, who makes 33 million next year. And you're up to about that 54 million in max contract space. At end, you know, we have two pick swaps available this summer and we have two tradable firsts.
So now you can really go hunting and try to bring in an impact player. You have the salary match with Malik Monk. Secondly with Malik Monk, if he's, you know, pretty good, I think we can realistically afford him next year. So it's 20 million here.
We put that in for next year. We would have about 14 and a half million left. It'd be tight, but we can afford to bring in our draft deck. We're going to be a first run pick, which is probably going to be around 2.6, 2.8 million to sign based on where we fall.
And then from there, we could fill out the roster with minimums. Fortunately, we have no key players that are up for a contract. So you're talking about resounding a bones. I can't imagine Jalen Clark goes for anything more than like, you know, two years, six million, two year, eight million.
And so you can go ahead and start filling out the roster. It's tight. You can only probably have 14 players on the roster and still be legal. But you can make work.
And then the final option with Malik Monk is let's say you finally decide to pivot towards Aunt J. McDaniel's and Nas Reed. Who's going to bring the juice off the bench? So Malik Monk gives you kind of that six-man where he's been thriving in that role in Sacramento except for this year, where he gives you that juice that you lose by maybe pivoting Randall for someone else.
And now you have that juice of a six-man player. You can promote Nas with a starting lineup and kind of pivot and reshape that roster around that trio. So because Malik Monk gives you some options, even if he doesn't really work out, and because he'd really only be replacing Mike Conley in the lineup, and because he's a bloated contract and an offense-only player, I think he's actually realistic from Mike Conley plus Rob Dillingham package. I see that package go out all the time, but the first question I have is why would the other team accept that?
The Kings, they would actually look at Rob Dillingham maybe as a plus. Also, they're just starting a rebuild. They don't have that many picks. They might look at Leonard Miller and be like, dude, this guy's 6'11", he can handle in transition, he's a stretch floor with some upsides, only 21.
There's not many teams that he'd have value for, but if the Kings are one of them, they are one of those teams that would be intrigued by Leonard Miller. So because Malik Monk is both realistic for the packages and contracts we have to offer, and there's some optionality you get off of it, even if he's bad. It's kind of an intriguing deal where I think you could realistically see that happening. Yeah, and so I just want to, we got to give the fans what they want here.
So you made the point of Malik Monk and Julius's contract coming out to be what was it, like 54 million or was it 45 million? One of the two? Yeah, it's just a hair under, next year it's a hair under 54 million. So right in that next contract space.
So with, you said, having the matching salaries that does open up the possibility for the Wolves to go big game hunting while keeping the core of Ant, Nas, and Jaden all intact. So the reason that the trade deadline has been halted this year is because of one man, and that man is Janus and the Wolves name has been flirted with, has been thrown into the mix with the Janus Nantatikumpo along with the heat, along with the nicks. You're starting to see the blazers emerge a little bit. So if for some reason that Janus does not get traded this offseason, which if you are the box, I think realistically it would make sense to hold on to Janus.
You're going to get a bigger package in the off season. The only downfall for that is he's your franchise guy. He's the best player that has ever played for your franchise. And yes, for all you old heads, he is better than Kareem was when he was a buck.
I need to get that off my chest. But it just kind of comes down to what does Janus want? Is it more important for him to get the Supermax and get traded this offseason so he can sign it with whoever he gets moved to, or maybe wait it out. And if you're Janus, you can have, how do I say this?
You have a more, a more set roster, I guess you could say with pieces around that whatever team you get traded to isn't going to have to move, or isn't going to have to move those significant pieces to acquire you in a trade. So if Janus does not get moved, there's off season. What do you think the likelihood of the wolves possibly making a splash in landing Janus would be? Yeah, you know what?
This is a souped up version of Kevin Durant from last year. I have very little faith that he's going to get dealt by the deadline. If you're Milwaukee, I mean, the guys hurt, you can easily shut them down. You can still tank even with them on the roster.
I don't think it makes any sense for them to move him, especially when the main suitors that are on Janus's list, that's Minnesota, which I cannot believe we're on his list, but we're all going to live in. But Minnesota, Miami, New York, I'm not sure if going to stay on his list, but those three teams, they can offer substantially more in the summer. Minnesota, we have two tradable firsts. We can trade our 2026 pick at the draft.
And then once the new league year starts, so we can essentially select for the bucks. And then finalize the trade on Janus July 1st, we would have our 2033 first round pick. That could be a really attractive pick to the box. Yeah, it's far out.
But theoretically, it could be after Ant, an unprotected tambouros stick pick after Ant. So I think a Janus to Minnesota, it's going to resemble a lot of the scheme from Kevin Durant. I think all these teams are laying groundwork. I don't think they're actually going to put something with the finish line.
I think all the groundwork and the logistics of what we have to do, who do we have to liquidate, what's the gauge on this guy, all that's happening right now, but no deal is going to go through. It's all just going to build momentum for the summer where people are going to return those conversations up at the playoffs. What if, you know, Jayden goes off and he's scores 21 points per game in the playoffs and we'll be like, sorry, we're going to keep Jayden. So there's just a lot of logistics that need to go down.
I think we're just seeing the steam from that being worked through. But it's a fun thing to talk about. Whenever you're going to assemble two top five players in the sport, it's a fun thing to talk about. Absolutely.
And I think just kind of some, you said it was kind of like Kevin Durant ask, like, there's just so much, because like if you're an NBA team and you're competing, you don't, like you said in the beginning of the episode, you don't want to be in the second apron for longer than you need to be. And that's kind of where we found ourselves before extend Julius when we had cat, we were in the second apron for was it was it two years and then we made the trade. Yep. So you don't want to have to dip into that if you're a contender, unless you are firmly weird.
This is the year. This is our window. And that is what makes it interesting for the wolves. I guess realistically, kind of before we had out today, I guess my last thing that I wanted to say about Janice is kind of like what you said, it would be like just from like our point of view from like covering the wolves to be awesome.
It would be so cool to have to top league, one of the greatest players of all time in Janice. If he could come to Minnesota, imagine he wins one or two more rings and we get to see a player in a Minnesota Timberwolves uniform get talked about his a top 10 player of all time well and slowly creeping his way into that too. Like that, that would be so awesome. But like you said, it kind of just comes down to the variables and the postseason because the wolves are just a different team in the postseason.
Like, I really hate when fans and even some media members talk about it just looks like the wolves don't care in the regular season. But there's some truth to that. You come out three nights ago and you play OKC and it looks like it was game seven intensity. And then the first half of that grizzly's game you were like, dude, this is not the same team.
So it is really going to be interesting going into the offseason, assuming Janice does not get dealt at the deadline. Is there anything else that you want to kind of want to talk to on kind of one to cover before we wrap up today's episode? Yeah, just one more thing on Janice. If it happens, it's going to be complicated guys.
I mean, the reason why I think it happens in the offseason, if it happens for Minnesota is they have to liquidate guys on their roster. They have to go liquidate Julius Ranil, they have to go liquidate. Ruby go bare and try to get more first round picks. All that stuff is way easier to do in the summer when you don't have to live by the roster compliance standards of having at least 13 minimum.
And you can only have 13 NBA contracts for two weeks total. So I say that to me and I don't see that all that liquidation happening mid-season. That's a massive thing to do to a locker room. But if they can start finding the right deals when there aren't those compliance rules and effects and they can start, you know, shipping guys out here, maybe Rudy there for a couple of picks and some intriguing guys, Julius there for a couple intriguing guys.
Whatever happens, it's probably going to be a multi-trade or just like a massive 5-16 trade if Janice comes to Minnesota. It's going to be Looney Tunes if that happens. Literally crazier than any trade machine that you've seen on Twitter or wherever you get your trade ideas from. So just keep that in mind, so many logistics and so many things need to go right for Janice to come to Minnesota.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but what I am saying is that if it's going to happen, it's just far more feasible in the offseason. Absolutely. I really appreciate having you on the day, Tim. I hope that all their listeners have been enlightened, learned a little bit just about how some of the behind-the-scenes stuff works in the NBA with salary cap, just contracts and maybe just opened up a completely new door of thinking for you guys.
So yeah, if you guys want to see more of this stuff, make sure to go follow Tim on Twitter. He's always hosting the mock trades. That's at Tim Garrison, MN on X. So go shoot him a follow.
But as always guys, great having you on today, Tim. And yeah, go wolves. Thanks for having me. Happy trade deadline week.