Good evening. We begin tonight with breaking news. President Trump has just fired the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, his top military advisor. He made the announcement on social media, quoting from his post.
I want to thank General Charles C. Q. Brown for his over 40 years of service to our country, including as our current chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He's a fine gentleman and an outstanding leader, and I wish a great future for him and his family.
The president went on to say today I'm honored to announce that I'm nominating Air Force Lieutenant General Dan Raisin Kane to be the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Now, a defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, had previously called for General Brown's firing because of his quote, woke focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion programs in the military. Hegseth, on our radio show, Last Fall, said, or podcast, Last Fall, said, First of all, you got to fire the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and he went on to talk about how any general involved with DEI efforts should be fired. Either you're in for war fighting, and that's it, he said.
As you know, Kayla Collin has more reporting on this, and she joins us right now. It's not entirely unexpected, especially since the new defense secretary has been talking about this before he was even being considered for that job. How much of this is about DEI? Well, I think it depends on your definition, what that looks like.
And I will say that when Hegseth got confirmed as the defense secretary that he stood next to General C.C.B. Brown, and who was the president's top military advisor, effectively, and said that he looked forward to working with him. So we actually saw him strike quite a different tone after Hegseth had gone through the confirmation process. It was actually at the Pentagon.
But one thing that was clear was this is something that has been long rumored for weeks now, that this was in the works, that this was going to happen, that they had not changed their minds on that feeling initially of General C. B. Ever since you heard those comments from the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, and just to drive home how unusual this is, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Anderson typically stays regardless of who the president is. Even if they change parties and it's a different administration, they stay for that four-year term.
And he started his in October of 2023. He succeeded General Mark Millie in this role. And so his term does not expire until the fall of 2027. But when this ouster tonight, Trump has removed him from his post and is now picking someone else to take this position, which really does drive home what you heard from Pete Hegseth in that interview back in November, blaming him for DEI policies.
But that is obviously part of this. And I've been talking to people in recent weeks. None of them would say on background or privately that C.C.B. Brown's job was assured in this role.
I will note today he was posting pictures. He was at the Southern border and was talking about the work that the military has been doing and what that partnership looks like. And so he clearly was still doing his job as of just a few hours ago before Trump announced on Truth Social Tonight that he was outstake him. And traditionally, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, usually as administrations change, that position often remains the same.
It's not that each time a new president comes in, that person is removed. Yeah, for example, General Mark Millie. That was Trump's actual hand-picked Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman. It might be hard for some to believe given how much that relationship deteriorated and how Trump talks about Mark Millie now and his reposted things suggesting military tribunals for him.
But that was actually someone that he hand-picked in his first term to be the Joint Chiefs Chairman and take on that role. It is a four-year term. When President Biden won and took office, he kept Mark Millie in that role and did not fire him or oust him. And then when his term expired, that is when he picked C.C.B.
Brown. It is now a four-year role. It used to be every two years, I believe, and then they would go up for Senate confirmation once again. But typically, yeah, those are positions that stay on and that stays regardless of the political party.
And so the thing to watch here tonight, though, Anderson, as this is the first major firing that we are seeing happening at the Pentagon since Trump took office just a little over a month ago, is whether anyone else is to follow. Because there have been rumors that have been rampant in Washington for weeks now that there is going to be mass firings, I would say multiple firings at the leadership of the Pentagon. It's been hard to run down whether or not that's actually going to happen, but tonight we are getting a slate on announcement. The top military advisor to the President has been ousted.
Alright, David Collins, thanks very much. I will see you at the top of the hour for the source. I want to play that sound by Opead Higgs at the November talking about General Brown. Well, first of all, you got to fire the Chairman and Joint Chiefs.
You got to fire this. I mean, obviously you're going to bring in a new Secretary of Defense. But any general that was involved, General Admiral Abner, whatever that was involved in any of the DEI woke shit, it's got to go. Either you're in for war fighting that and that's it.
That's the only litmus test we care about. Joining us now is Ron Manuel, former Obama White House Chief of Staff, former Chicago Mayor, and currently seen as senior political and global affairs commentator. Ambassador, I appreciate you being with us. I understand you know General Brown.
What do you make of this fire? Yes. Well, not only know him, I knew him as ambassador in Japan. And he has not extensive experience in the fire Indo-Pacific area as a former Air Force of head in Indo-Pakom.
I think this, in a week of unsteadiness of America, the idea that also then on our national security profile to have this type of unsteadiness is projecting a level of weakness. Now see how this plays out. Right now, China is doing a military exercise they've never done before off the coast of Australia. Live fire.
It's impacted civil aviation there. Because of the weakness, China is doing something we have never ever seen. What is in the United States communicating? Chaos at home, a firing over some political difference.
If that's the true reason, it is unsteady, both in Europe and now it's unsteady in the military. As a week of weakness, it is also projecting, I think, a level of chaos here. I think it's very, very reckless. And he has experienced, I dealt with him many times as ambassador, his knowledge and the trust that Australia, New Zealand, his counterparts in India, in Japan and South Korea.
This is not the type of thing you want to have at a moment where people are trying to figure out where the United States is going, what the type of leadership is. I think it actually projects very bad not just on the United States. It is something our adversaries are going to take advantage of. First of all, he's going to have defense secretary Pete Hixoth solicit nominations for five more high-level military posts.
Does that sound like, I mean, a purge of some sort of the highest level of the American military? Is this common? Well, you know this, first of all, the answers in the question. No, it's not common.
I was there for President Clinton and President Obama. You kept people in because there's something to the steadiness, the trust and the relationships they build worldwide that people know they can count on America. His knowledge, CQ's general Brown's knowledge of the region I worked at extensively was a checkmate on China. There was many allies and friends that knew him and trusted him.
I think you're going to have a level of impact where a lot of folks across the branches and the armed forces are going to start to look over their shoulder and pull back for risk of getting on the wrong side. This is not the moment in time. I think the United States wants our men and women, not just in the armed forces, but more importantly in their leadership, unsure and unsteady in questions. You have moments that I just use this example because it's prevalent out there.
China's doing something we've never seen off the cost of Australia in front of Sydney and live fire. They've never done this. The United States is nowhere to be seen found as a deterrent with one of our closest allies in the region. And now, rather than respond to China, we're firing the head of the joint chiefs.
Imagine what that communicates not just to China, but across the globe as people look at the United States, is this a country you're going to hang your hat on and you're going to actually draft behind because you understand and trust their leadership. And I say that because we had many dinners with all the Indo-Pake House, with President Obama, there's a connectivity between the President and the military leadership, and that's essential for our national security. This also comes as a time as the war in Ukraine continues, and obviously there's now a realignment with this administration and our European allies, who traditionally have been our allies and Russia. Well, in this situation, and I've talked about the written about this, I think what we're doing here is we're basically empowering our adversaries and endangering our allies.
And the problem when you look at this is the United States, under Donald Trump, thinks of Ukraine as a real estate deal. They got 20% and they get that. That's how much Russia has now of Ukraine. Russia is looking at these negotiations.
This is about Ukraine's sovereignty, and we're going to claim it. It's a totally different discussion between the United States. We're just looking at it, President's background. It's a real estate.
Russia sees the Grand Power Play here in Europe with the projection. This is not just Ukraine's sovereignty. Moldova, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, every place where we put troops. They've now said we've now we've gotten everything we've wanted on the United States leaving Ukraine vulnerable.
We've gotten what we want to engage, negotiations between NATO. We now want your troops out of Eastern Europe. They've added and they put, we see your 20, add 40 at the table. This is a dangerous precedent because we're projecting weakness and weakness in vice aggression.
And you're seeing it play out in the Indo-Pacific right now. The President, President Trump, went out of his way tonight to say that General Dan Cain, who means nominating for a place general around, is someone who was passed over for promotion by President Biden. How much of this do you think is about the current or the man who was just removed as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs staff? He had spoken out about, for instance, the racism that he had witnessed and gone through in the past.
How much of this is about DEI and sending a message? Well, I think it's a good portion of it, but I want to say one other thing, having worked with not only heads of our Joint Chiefs throughout my career, but heads of different military operations, rather offices in Indo-Paykom and other areas across the globe. One thing that's been impressive to date is the men and women in leadership in the armed forces. When you think about where the armed forces of the United States was after Vietnam, you look at the quality of people and the choices and optionality we have a President has for head of Air Force Navy, Marines, Army, Coast Guard.
It is incredible depth of talent. It's a true success story of the United States rebuilding the armed forces from the low point to where it is today. I don't know the case that somebody got passed over. That doesn't mean you take somebody at this critical juncture where America is being tested and you remove them.
And I think it's going to have not just a consequence and stop with General Brown. I think it's going to have a consequence with everybody else in the leadership. That's what I'm worried about when in fact, on the heels of a week in which heads are spinning, as your question indicated about Ukraine, heads are spinning around the globe. Now we double down on the message and theme of unsteadiness at a very point where people want the United States to project strength and steadiness because, again, that old axiom is true.
Weakness invites aggression. That's what's fair. That's what's worrisome right now. Ambassador, if you will, just stick around.
I want to get your take on another big story tonight, namely that after a month of made for TD Action, including on horseback, the Trump administration is still struggling to live up to promises it's made about mass deportations. And it's just removed the man that they put in charge of the effort. This is another person who's just been removed, by the way. Also tonight, what are the facts behind the limestone mine Elon Musk has been talking about where federal retirement documents are processed and when inside would be right there.
I'm CNN Tech reporter Claire Duffy. This week on the podcast, Terms of Service, the idea of riding in a car with no driver can feel daunting. And this technology raises questions about safety and the future of transportation. That's why I'm here with Nicole Gabel, head of business development and strategic partnerships at WeMo.
We mo we've always been about safety. No distracted driving. No drunk driving. We mo follows the rules of the road.
Listen to CNN's Terms of Service, wherever you get your podcasts. So I've got news for your ears, the podcast. I am your host Michael Ian Black. His latest thing you see this yesterday was he finds the peace talks boring.
Not my favorite guy, but I gotta be honest with you. I know exactly what he's talking about. He's not negotiating. He's not in the room.
But how do you think he receives the information? Because I got a... sir, because they all sum up sir. Sir, would you like to hear the latest update?
They should make like a comic strip out of it. Have I got news for your ears, check us out on Apple, Amazon Music, wherever you get your podcasts. Even though you can watch the podcast on Spotify. Give it a moment tonight, starting with the removal of this man, Caleb Vitello, acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE.
This is him on our rage just last month in New York. Now, given that he has just been removed from his role, he might think he was a holdover from the Biden administration. But no, he was actually chosen by then-President Electrom to be the next director of the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE. He hadn't been confirmed yet, so that's why he was the acting director, but now he's not that either.
A spokeswoman for the Homeland Security Department saying in a statement that he's not being fired just reassigned and that he'll remain in charge of, quote, finding arresting and deporting illegal aliens, which is a major priority of the president and secretary. Not clear how he will be in charge of that if he's not actually the director of the place that does that, but details. Despite that statement, and despite public denials by the president that he's unhappy with ICE's performance, multiple insidesources tell us that frustration over lagging arrest numbers is real. At about 8,000 since inauguration day, they're exceeding on a daily basis, last year's daily average during the Biden administration.
But according to Washington Post, they're falling short of the administration's own targets at 12 to 1,500 a day. When Trump officials told CNN, quote, they're treading water their way behind, adding that pressure on ICE is coming from White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller, borders are Tom Homan and Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, seen here getting on a horse with federal law enforcement at the southern border. It's not pretty. It's how this official describes the pressure on ICE, which sounds accurate because we've just seen the acting director professionally deported.
Mass deportations is what Donald Trump ran on. It's what Trump promised over and over again. It seemed like no campaign promise on the subject was too big for him to make. On day one, I will launch the largest deportation program in American history.
For the deputy criminals out, it will be Liberation Day in America. On day one, I will launch the largest deportation program of criminals in American history. Bad people. They're all now in the United States and they're now taking over cities.
It's like an invasion from within. We're going to have the largest deportation in the history of our country. And yes, that was on the campaign trail. And maybe plenty of his supporters knew that wasn't actually going to happen on day one, as he said it would.
Though on day one, he did very publicly sign executive orders about the border. Sir, this is an executive order entitled Protecting the American People Against Invasion, which again deals with the southern border and the unprecedented admission of illegal aliens across the south border. Sir, this is a proclamation declaring a national emergency at the southern border of the United States. That's a big one.
Not a big one, huh? You know what that means, right? In all, since that moment on inauguration day, the president has signed at least ten executive orders or other executive actions on lawful immigration and has also targeted the lawful kind, shutting down on day one, the government app for migrants wanting to follow the rules by applying outside the country. And just yesterday, the administration stripped temporary protected status from some half a million Haitian migrants, making these formerly legal immigrants in a stroke of the pen, illegal immigrants, and eligible for deportation.
These are people he once said were eating the pets. It is worth noting that with all these efforts to get rid of Central and South Americans and now Haitians, there's one group of foreigners the president has, out of the blue, decided to invite to move here, white South Africans, in particular, Afrikaners. He actually signed an executive order promoting, quote, the resettlement of Afrikaner refugees, escaping government sponsored race-based discrimination, including racially discriminatory property confiscation. He wants white Afrikaners here.
It's too long to try to get into the history of South Africa as a part-side regime, but it's at the very least an interesting group to make special welcome to. Anyway, whatever you may think of the president's policy choices on immigration, his priorities, or the morality of it, there's simply no denying that he is making a production of it, literally. That is DHS Secretary Noam, late last month, taking part in migrant arrests in New York, one of several high-profile enforcement actions she and other top officials have appeared at and documented heavily. The administration has also made a big show of using military aircraft for deportation flights, and it costs more than the traditional civilian flights, and loudly began sending deportees to Guantanamo Bay, before quietly removing some this week.
The White House this week even turned the deportation process into a kind of viral video posting on social media something entitled, quote, "#ASMRELEGALIANDEPORTATIONFLIGHT". By the way, ASMR videos use sounds to trigger emotional states and are generally supposed to be soothing. Partly soothing about shackles, but so be it. Taste and again morality aside, it all seems part of how the administration signals it is all in on the problem.
They have even gone so far as to spark a justice department rebellion by trying to drop corruption charges against New York's mayor in the name of furthering the president's immigration policy, and then after that, prodding him about it on national television. If he doesn't come through, I'll be back in New York City and we'll be sitting on a couch up in his office. Up his butt saying where the hell is it we came to? The bottom line, so to speak, is that almost every way possible, the administration has made an enormous public show of its toughness on immigration, both lawful and unlawful, some of which may actually be useful if those images are seen in South and Central America and elsewhere and deter migrants from coming here legally without following the rules, but that remains to be seen.
What is clear is that for all the show and all the orders when it comes to doing what it promises the administration by its own lights is coming up short. With that, joining us again is the senior political and global fairs coming to the Rahm Emanuel. It is only a month ambassador to the new presidency. What do you think it says that the White House is, by their own account, falling short on what they had promised and what they had wanted to see?
As I think you should, if I could, to the viewers, pull back the screen and take a wider lens. He promised that on day one, inflation would be down, immigration deportations would be up, and America would be respected around the world and there'd be peace in Ukraine and day one. Take a look at what's happened. Inflation is actually not down, but immigration deportations are not up, they're actually down, and America is actually inviting weakness by its chaos in negotiating with Russia and Europe and Ukraine.
That's why his poll numbers are down. This week will be seen as a pivotal week in his presidency. I am not one that ever bought 49% and you have a mandate, but for four weeks they've been repeating that. The trend line in all the public opinion polling on his presidency indicates displeasure with the presidency, mainly because he's been distracted talking about buying Greenland when people are worried about buying groceries, not Greenland.
They can't afford those groceries. He hasn't sold inflation. You can see the data is pretty consistent. He said he was going to have on day one the largest show of deportations consistent.
He's below President Biden. He's below President Obama. And rather than get peace in Ukraine, you have seen the result there. And that is why his poll numbers continually decline.
And I really do think this will be the week that people noted that it's actually flipped. And that's what's happening in the whole week, kind of in a nutshell from, I think, all the pledges being made. And this guy's going to be the fall guy for taking the hit here. But there's a bigger problem because the President's not focused on the priorities in which he ran on.
And the American people smell a rat. I talked to Maggie Herman last night and she said there's a quite frustration among some of the President's advisers because some of his policies have been drowned out by the administration's flood the zone strategy and all the attention that Elon Musk gets. I'm wondering what you make of the strategy generally speaking. Because there certainly has been a whirlwind of activity which is a stark contrast to what we saw in the previous administration.
You didn't seem as much actually happening in front of the cameras as you see here. I know that look, I think it's a general thread. The energy was to show a contrast to the Biden administration. There's no doubt about that.
And one level from a kind of energy to the lack thereof. You actually got from a thematic and purposeful narrative. That energy added up to a lot of action and people were confident about that. The problem is it's gotten so cluttered and the fundamentals have gotten closer.
Meaning you're going to go to the grocery store. You're going to see less eggs and they're going to be very expensive. You're going to see that not only in grocery stores. You're going to see that whole host of costing of items.
And you're also going to see the fact on the immigration it's a level of activity. It's not the criminal immigration. It's now going into areas in fact that people don't want to see. They don't want to see raids in schools.
They don't want to see raids in places of worship. And so it's having that impact. And I think people are basically penalizing the administration because they're not focused on what they were supposed to run on. And there is a bit of the show is done and it's now the circus left and you can see a lot of things that are left after the circus leaves.
Because you pointed out the criminal immigration. That was always the you know it's all these criminals that were going to get out. It's more complicated. I mean it's difficult.
The countries don't want to receive them. There's a lot of complexity to it. Even if many people want that to happen. Yeah.
And just in the way I look at it is look in 1986 was the last time the United States dealt with immigration on the Ronald Reagan Center, Simpson and Congress members only. It's been a close to 40 years. Every president's either tried to do some comprehensive immigration form or through tape, bubble gum, some rope and some chewing gum. Try to piece something together whether it was like I'm President Obama on DACA but also deportation.
We have to fundamentally fix this. We're a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants. And the American people are quite receptive to people that respect the laws and come to this country accordingly. Think about this and I say this.
I am the son of an immigrant. I'm also the grandson of an immigrant. You have a president and I say this respectfully. Married an immigrant.
You have a vice president who has also married the child of immigrants. No two people better understand the importance of immigrants to the country from a legal standpoint. But also illegal. The thing that they're doing is trying to score points rather than solve problems.
This is a very tough issue but it can be resolved with leadership. It hasn't in 40 years. So to me I understand I understand like in Chicago they sent Dr. Phil.
That's a show. Solve the problem with Congress. Yeah. Ronald Manuel appreciate your time.
Thank you. Coming up next the job cutters now upside set on the Pentagon Civilian workforce. We have new details on just how many jobs could be eliminated. Also the suspect in the killing of the healthcare CEO Brian Thompson appeared in court again today.
Luigi Manjione with groups of supporters inside and outside the courtroom. More breaking news tonight. The Defense Department says it plans to fire five to eight percent of its civilian workforce and because that workforce totals nearly a million men and women that would put it anywhere from 47,000 to 76,000 people out of work. Defense officials said the first 5400 could get pink slips early next week.
Last night Elon Musk who seems to be running doge though the administration says he's not running doge was given a chainsaw at the conservative political action conference outside Washington must say quote. This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy. Also today a federal judge ruled that his dismantling of USAID may continue. Musk you'll recall compared that to feeding it to a wood shipper.
At the same time some cuts are getting pushed back at a town hall outside Atlanta. Republican Congressman Richard McCormick was confronted over the firing of 1300 people to send her for disease control and prevention. Why is a supposedly conservative party taking such a radical and extremist and sloppy approach to this? So I've been down to CDC several times.
Actually Dr. Howrie's one of my former attendings works there and I'm in close contact with the CDC. They have about what 13,000 employees? 13,000 employees at the CDC.
It's about 1300 people to refer into. A lot of the work they do is to do places with AI. Once again one of the problems we have happened to be a doctor. I know a few things.
I don't think you meant to say duplicitous. Our next guest is an effect she teaches at Princeton and is an opinion columnist from New York Times. She writes about Musk and Doge today saying that Doge's young computer wizards now wields so much control over the IT systems where they're working that they become in effect the network systems administrators or sysadmins for the entire government. I appreciate you being with us.
I read your piece today and it was the first time I've heard someone explain a little bit what's going on. You write in this latest column you said that Elon Musk is approaching this challenge like a budget minded official. He's approaching it like an engineer exploiting vulnerabilities that are built into the nation's technological systems operating as what cyber security experts call an insider threat. What was so explained?
What's going on? From the reporting what has happened is these Doge associates who are operating in a lot of secrecy and lack of transparency for such a powerful position have started going to these key agencies like the Office of Personnel Management which is the HR for the entire government and demanded access to the entire network. Even though they're just new there and the people who resisted that kind of unfettered access got put on administratively or fired and then once they got there that was the first place they went they went to the treasury and something similar happened. The treasury has a database of every payment that the US government does and this is such sensitive information.
If you're a company you can see what your rivals are doing. If you're a company competing with Musk your contracts are there. So they could actually look into what they wanted access and this is so sensitive that very few people have access to this and they're like career civil servants trusted by both parties and they've been there. They were immediately put on leave and they were put aside and they were told you're going to give these youngsters access and then this happened again.
Now we're hearing they're asking for access at IRS social security and all of a sudden you're looking at like this is the keys to the kingdom to the entire population sensitive personal data. You wrote now we're stuck with a system that offers equal efficiency to those who wish to exercise the legitimate functions of government and those who wish to dismantle it or to weaponize it for their own ends. There doesn't even seem to be a mechanism to learn who has gained access to what database with what privileges. So essentially these systems this was all done over decades to make these systems incredibly efficient and there were people warning about linking all these systems together and they were kind of ignored.
People were raising this as a potential for abuse but in our desire to have things be efficient that wasn't listened to. That's exactly right. So what happened is people have been warning about this before the 1970s government holding this kind of personal data is very powerful. We already have a problem with all these companies having all of our data but the governments also have other powers they can do and it's a bipartisan failure.
Every government just wanted to have Silicon Valley on their side and their fickle they are now on Trump's side and they were before an Obama side and nobody put in the kind of protections that if this got in the hands of the wrong people we would at least have some transparency. I don't even know what they're doing so which I think that is the key problem. You're not even in a position to know what's been asked. Nor does it seem like there's a record of it.
You used in your article the example of Edward Snowden and people were like how can this guy have access to all this secret intelligence? He was the sysadmin guy. He was the sysadmin guy. This is the oldest problem in governance who watches the watchers who guards the guardians in modern world.
It is who watches the sysadmin because they're the ones that have access to the entire sysadmin. So that position the systems administration position you're saying Edward Snowden was the sysadmin guy. That is what these people are doing and they are getting that position and that gives them a window into everything. So the Atlantic the reported that one person at the part of GSA where they run the general service.
Right. They were they run technology for the entire government. He asked for 19 different systems. He asked for access to 19 different IT systems at very high privileges which is unprecedented and according to their reporting he hadn't even gotten through a background.
He's a Tesla engineer. So like these are not elected people. These are not being done with oversight. And I do want to add one thing that really alarmed me was when a judge ruled against the administration on something.
It doesn't even matter what. Musk tweeted to his 200 million followers. He posted. Not tweeted.
I guess. Ex posted. The judge's daughter face name photo and allegedly employment at the government of education. And to me I'm just looking at this and thinking this is the judge's family and she works for the government.
And I'm a judge and I'm seeing this in front of me. And I'm thinking who in my family is next. What kind of information? This is not a claim that they are doing anything improper.
This is a claim that if they did how would we even know what is going on? We don't even know who these people are. We know they're very young. We don't know if they have security clearances.
We don't know anything else. So to me even a lot of other things get reversed. If somebody walks off with all that data like snowed on a single thumbnail. Would we know?
I just think this is kind of a urgent emergency to the attention. Thank you. Thank you. We're now on the subject another unseen function of the government body by a limestone mine in Pennsylvania.
We're apparently all federal retirement paperwork is processed during an Oval Office event last week. Elon Musk talked about the mine that some of the workers tell CNN are not true. They say that does not mean the system is perfect. You know what's allowed inside the mine.
The border was outside. Give Cohen has the story. Beneath the rolling hills of Western Pennsylvania really is just off some rural road. An old limestone mine houses one of the most remote and secure government offices.
You can see the entrance. It looks like that's about as far as you can get before you have to go through security. Nearly 700 civil servants here process almost every retirement from the federal workforce. We're here in Butler County because of recent comments that Elon Musk made about this facility and about the people who work here.
Comments that have really rocked this rural area. There's a limestone mine. We store all the retirement paperwork. From the Oval Office last week Musk criticized the operation as one that epitomizes government inefficiency.
It's like a time warp and the elevator breaks down sometimes and then you can't know what you're going to do practically anything else. And you would add to the goods and services of the United States in a more useful way. Is this the freaking Flintstones? Those comments got a lot of pickup.
Musk wants to rescue these government gremlins from working underground. Does President Trump promise we're going to shut this cave down? Yes, he does. The federal workers here are on edge.
They got a memo warning them not to talk to reporters. Are you ready? Yep. Okay.
How you feeling? Good? Better? And yet five of them and a former supervisor sat down with us because they say many of Musk's claims were false.
We're masking their face and changing their voice because they're scared of retaliation. Everybody's kind of been silenced at this point. We all need these jobs. Tell me about that elevator.
And the elevator breaks down sometimes and then you can't know what you're tired of. There's no elevator. No elevator at all. You walk down into the mine.
It looks like any other office building. The most number of people that could retire possibly in a month is 10,000. I'm not sure where that number came from. There's no limit.
There's no limit. All their time and paperwork is manual. That is not true. It's not.
Built in the 1950s, transformed from a mine, it was renovated over the years into a temperature and climate controlled facility. It's owned by a company called Iron Mountain and private companies also store vulnerable items like film reels and photographs. But it's not just Musk who criticizes the processing of retirement claims. For years, this office has been criticized for processing too slowly, over-reliance on paper and insufficient staffing.
Some of the workers we spoke to agree the system needs updating. But completely shutting this facility down would devastate Butler County, where the federal government is the biggest employer. It's also Trump country. He got nearly two thirds of the vote here, and the mine is just 20 miles from the fairgrounds where he was nearly assassinated.
Did you support President Trump? I did support President Trump. Yes. I think he's the president of the people.
That's the message this area has. I need too large for the underground. Jason McBride is a supervisor in this tiny town. Thanks for choosing McBride to help you.
And runs the only restaurant, this pizza shop. Okay, but what's your number? Darren? I'll give you a call on a minute of mine.
They deliver into the mine almost daily. I just would hate to think that a stroke of a pen in Washington, D.C., could change the future of our area. Whether you're the gas station or you're the pizza guy, it'd be detrimental to all of us. If you shut down that facility, will you still support him?
No. We'll have to wait and see on that. Good people dedicated their lives to this facility for the federal government and they deserve to be heard. Who did you vote for in November?
Trump. First time I ever voted. First time you ever voted. I was never even registered to vote before that.
When you talk about government employees, we didn't think that was going to be us. I wish I could take it back because I feel like now my whole livelihood could be changed because of him being president. Now we understand at this point we don't know what the White House has taken any more steps to start shutting this facility down, even though it has been a week now since Trump's press secretary said that they are promising they are going to close it. Now since then the agency that actually runs that office has told me they are, quote, evaluating methods to enhance the efficiency of the retirement process.
We don't know exactly what that means. Maybe that means bringing an engineer to try to start digitizing more of that work. But to do that they are going to need cooperation from a lot of government agencies because it is all of their paperwork coming into this facility. It's coming fascinating.
Thank you for coming up. The man accused of killing a healthier CEO and Manhattan's freed appeared in court as did his supporters. What else? Keep exploring at Espresso.com.
He's in shackles. Eric Adams is trailing behind. That was an outrageous spectacle. She's right to raise it.
But it's not going to be serious enough to undermine this case to cause the case to be dismissed. I'd actually be more concerned the other way. The prosecutor said, I mean we just saw some of those images of the, it's not even, it's beyond a fan call. It's almost a quasi-colle following that he has.
I would be very worried about one of those people who has donated to him, who wore the same color as him today in solidarity. I'd be very worried about one of those people getting onto the jury. The, uh, uh, Sheriff, McNifield has said that she wanted more time to look at the prosecution's evidence. Totally fair.
Things move very slowly, especially when you're looking at a potential life sentence in that state case or across the street in the federal case, a death sentence. So yeah, it's her job to do that. And I think her requests were totally fair for more time. What happened with the menendez?
Really bad. So a bad turn from the menendez brothers. The prior district attorney who just lost his election, he had been on board with a resettencing for the menendez brothers that would have put them basically half step away from being released from prison. However, that DA, that's gone, lost his election.
And now there's a new DA who's taken a much more adversarial position today. The new DA announced I'm not on board with a new trial. And in fact, he put out a brief and a statement where he is quite skeptical of some of these claims that the menendez brothers are making. So their chances of getting out have gone down substantially.
So is that the end of it? No, the judge ultimately has the say, but it matters a lot if the prosecution is on your side. And the prosecution's objection here is basically the so-called new evidence. There's two new letters that go to the claim of sexual abuse.
First of all, the DA says they're not really new. They've been around for years and the defense has known them for years. And second of all, he says they wouldn't really have changed the calculus because in the first trial, there was extensive horrifying testimony about that sexual abuse. So this is really more of the same.
So it's a tough call. You know, as a prosecutor, I get why technically what they've offered up is not enough for a new trial. But when you look at all the circumstances and the horrible abuse, they went through, I do understand the notion of enough is enough. Yeah, Alejona, it's much appreciated.
Bill Gates talks about his early years that form the basis of his new memoir. We'll have some of that ahead. An update now to a story we brought you last night. There was shock and confusion in horror when Israeli officials reported that one of four bodies transferred to them by Hamas yesterday was not, as Hamas claimed, Jerry Beebus.
She was the mother kidnapped by Hamas on October 7th along with her two children, Arielle Caffir. They were the two youngest captives taken during the October 7th massacre. Their remains were also transported. Their dad, who was also kidnapped, his photos there on the left, Yarden, he was released earlier this month.
Forensic testing confirmed the boys remains yesterday, but Israel said the body believed to be that of their mom was not hers and didn't match any other Israeli hostage. Tonight Israel says it has received a second set of remains, a second body. Hamas says that it is, Sheri Beebus. The body is now at the Tel Aviv Forensic Institute where it has yet to be confirmed, seen and will update the story.
The moment Israel does provide confirmation that it is indeed. Before we go, a preview of this weekend's edition of the whole story, my 1-1 interview with Microsoft Co-Founder and philanthropist Bill Gates who's opened up in a way he rarely has before about his form of years and a new memoir, Sourcecoated My Beginnings. At annual summer vacations with family friends, Gates learned early on that he loved a competition. But he liked math more than sports and books more than socializing.
Above all else, he loved thinking and learning. And he'd started to understand the power of his own intellect. And that led to conflict with his parents, especially his mom. By now, he was openly challenging her and refusing to follow her rules.
By then, there's things I actually understand a little bit better than my mom does. Like she's on a bankboard and I'm saying to her, how do you do the long-risk calculations and you know, maybe you shouldn't be on that board. I'm just really playing... Oh, and maybe you shouldn't be on that board?
Yeah, because you can't do the math. His father would later tell him that he seemed to become an adult overnight around the age of 9, an argumentative, intellectually forceful, and sometimes not very nice, adult. His parents did something very rare for anyone in 1964, but especially for a child. They sent him to a therapist.
All the other people he was seeing were like couples who were arguing. I was kind of unusual. Do you remember what you said to him? I'm at war with my parents.
They're imposing arbitrary rules on me. And you were 9 years old. And he said, you're going to win. And I was like, what?
The parents told you you're going to win? Yeah. At the end of the second session, he's like, what are you after here? Isn't it kind of more being recognized or succeeding?
And aren't they really on your side? And he refocused my energy utterly, that giving my parents a hard time was not the path to anything. He appealed to your logic. Exactly.
Well, the whole story airs this Sunday night at 8 p.m. Eastern. The news continues. The source of Kale Collins starts now.
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Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. On my podcast, all there is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities. As Ken Burns said on an earlier podcast, the half-life of grief is endless. Mrska Hargate knows that very well.
Jane Mansfield was killed in a car crash in 1967. Mrska was in the car with her. After decades spent coming to terms with her past and wanting to learn more about the mother she doesn't remember, Mrska has made a remarkable documentary called My Mom Jane. Our vulnerability is our greatest strength and our greatest connector.
And so in telling the story, I don't feel vulnerable. I feel free. We all have a story and you never know what somebody else carries. Talking grief, building community.
That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.