Turning Criminals Into Heroes: Rabbi Jeremy Wieder on Rubashkin, Pollard, and Moral Clarity (275)

Check out Orthodox Conundrum Commentary on Substack and get your free subscription by going to https://scottkahn.substack.com/ - and paid subscribers get this and other episodes of the Orthodox Conundrum Podcast ad-free and with additional bonus content! There's a recurring pattern in parts of the Orthodox world - one that has always troubled me, but in recent years has become impossible to ignore. We take individuals who have committed serious wrongdoing, sometimes admitted it in court, sometimes even served jail time, and we nevertheless elevate them to the status of heroes - not necessarily despite their criminal behavior, but in some ways almost because of it. Just a couple of weeks ago, Mishpacha magazine ran a glowing feature calling Sholom Rubashkin "the emunah and bitachon rebbe of the entire Jewish world," as though the only relevant fact of his story is his early release from prison. But as the record makes clear, including extensive evidence presented at trial, Rubashkin was involved in significant fraud, money laundering, and the exploitation of undocumented workers. Was his sentence excessive and unfair? Absolutely. Was there government overreach? No question. But that's not the same thing as innocence, and certainly not a basis for turning someone into a moral authority. Let me be clear: many of us have done things that we're not proud of, and that we wish we had done differently. The fact that Rubashkin went to jail is not the issue, so much as the fact that despite the real evidence, much of the Orthodox world treats him as if he were an innocent man who did nothing wrong, rather than an example of someone who was both perpetrator and victim. If he presented himself as an example of a baal teshuva, I would have no complaint. I would be pleased and fully supportive if we looked at him as someone who committed crimes, but has repented and is now living an honest life. And if he acknowledged his conviction as just and also complained about government overreach, he would be in the right. But that's not what's happening - and the consequences for the Orthodox self-image and behavior are serious. And this is not just a Haredi phenomenon. In the Modern Orthodox world, Jonathan Pollard has long been held up as a heroic defender of Israel. But as Rabbi Jeremy Wieder points out in our conversation, Pollard betrayed the country of which he was a citizen, took large sums of money for his actions, and passed along intelligence, the scope of which none of us fully know. The fact that the U.S. government mishandled his sentencing - which is terrible - does not magically transform espionage into idealism. So why do we do this? Why does our community repeatedly turn criminals into role models—sometimes even into teachers of faith and morality? What psychological, sociological, and ideological needs are we trying to satisfy? And more importantly: what message are we sending to our children when we confuse suffering with righteousness, and denial with integrity? In today's episode, Rabbi Jeremy Wieder helps us unpack all of this. We discuss Rubashkin, Pollard, Aryeh Deri, the role of media and influencers, the dangers of denial and victimhood narratives, and the guardrails communities should adopt so that real role models—not the loudest, or the most dramatic, or the most persecuted—become the people we admire. It's an honest and necessary conversation about integrity, responsibility, and choosing heroes who actually reflect Torah values. We're excited to announce that we at Jewish Coffee House are continuing to expand the conversation by bringing you—our listeners—into the mix. Introducing JCH Q&A, an exciting new podcast where listener-submitted questions are answered in a thoughtful, honest, and engaging way. We plan to dive deep into your pressing hashkafic, political, and philosophical questions. We will address the ideas that matter, the issues that challange us, and the topics that spark real curiosity. To submit a question for our first episode, you must be a member of the JCH Podcast WhatsApp Community. (Join here.) No question is off limits, and all submissions will remain anonymous. We're looking forward to answering your questions on our first episode! Please listen to and share this podcast, and let us know what you think on the Orthodox Conundrum Discussion Group on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/432020081498108). Thanks to all of our Patreon subscribers, who have access to bonus JCH podcasts, merch, and more - we appreciate your help, and hope you really enjoy the extras! Visit the JCH Patreon site at https://www.patreon.com/jewishcoffeehouse. Check out https://jewishcoffeehouse.com/ for the Orthodox Conundrum and other great podcasts, and remember to subscribe to them on your favorite podcast provider. Also visit https://www.jchpodcasts.com/ to learn all about creating your own podcast. Music: "Happy Rock" by bensound.com