Typhoid Mary

In the dead of night as people sleep, that is when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three, dark things take power. We like to call it the supernatural hour. Hey, welcome to the Supernatural Hour Podcast.

I am your host, Raven. I'm Chad. This is Init. And this is Doc.

And for the business, we're going to have a paranormal investigation, a petit-kneat school. I'm glad it's a paranormal investigation and not like a loo hour or something. So it will be April 8th at petit-kneat school. That's hard to say, petit-kneat.

Try spelling that when you're seven. I didn't even know it existed when I was seven. It did. It did exist because it's been there since what?

1902. 1902. And I went to school there at the age of seven, so I got to spell petit-kneat. That's seven.

So it will be Saturday, April 8th at 830. Tickets are still available on eventsparanormal.com. You can just go to the events tab and get your tickets there or out on if that's right. So we've got some venue.

There is so much activity there and there's so much to see. Like every room is haunted. Every room. Oh, yeah, and every room has about 8,000 trigger objects in it.

Yeah, it's an old school and now it's a museum also in a community center. So there's lots of things going on there all the time. Absolutely. And I would love to tell you that it's going to be kind of warm and maybe we'll go outside.

But today is March 27th and it snowed like six inches up at the University of Utah that I got to trudge in. Trudge, I trudged. You trudged through the snow? I love winter.

I really do. I love winter. But I'm so overwinter right now. I'm done.

So how many inches at Snowbird? Oh, no, we don't talk about inches. We talk, it's Alta. I'm going to be about 62 feet and after today I'm going to have 63 or 64 feet feet of snow.

There are buildings that are not that tall. A lot of buildings aren't that tall. I think it's on the Delta Center. They've got like a sticker on the side of the, like a big, I don't know what they call that was a big thing on the side of the Delta Center that shows how deep the snow is.

Some kind of a graph or yeah. It's crazy. I'm done with winter folks. But we're glad to have the snow.

We need it for the reservoirs. Yes. Oh, let me tell you that, okay, this has nothing to do with the paranormal, but I think it'll all find it interesting. I ran into a classmate on the train and blessed this classmate's heart.

We're talking about the weather because we only knew each other in class. One of those awkward, you make eye contact so you feel like you need to say something, right? So we talked about the weather and I said, yeah, yeah, I love snow, but it would be nice if the temperature bumped up like 40 degrees and it rained. And this individual said to me, oh, but rain, rain causes flooding.

And I'm thinking, so does 62 feet of snow and it melts, buster. Yeah, especially if it gets hot, especially if it gets hot all at once, which we tend to do. So I thought, okay, yeah. All right.

So that's what's going on. So go out and get your tickets at advancedpiernormal.com for the petite investigation. We're looking real forward to it. The business has been brought to you by Castle Koto Art and Castle Nature Studio.

We have one more little tidbit of business. We do. We don't have anything set in stone yet, but we do have kind of an app's road trip. Later in the summer, we just have to confirm some dates before we want to give out too many details.

But I mean, everything will be you have to get there by yourself. You have to pay for your hotel room. You got to pay for your own food and your own gas, but you can buy a ticket to come and investigate with us. We will have details for that as soon as we can, but we're looking at end of mid August, roughly 10 to 10, right now.

So stay tuned because it will be fun. It's going to be a lot of fun. Very, very neat venue. We've talked about it on previous podcasts and Raven and I have been there before and we wish that we would have known more about it when we went through the first time.

Yes, but anyway, so let us get some things confirmed, some dates confirmed, and we will hopefully by the next podcast we'll be able to. So save up a little money for the hotel room and food and gas. If you live in Utah or Nevada, it's not going to be too big of a stretch for you. Okay, so Castle Koto Art and Castle Nature Studio, they're the people that brought us the business today.

So residential. We had a residential. Was it just yesterday? Saturday.

So we're recording on Monday. So this was just two days ago. I can't wait to hear about this because it was closed, but I was just too much pain to make it. It was so close to you.

I actually have some stuff that that Velma gave to me in Virginia City to bring to you and your wife for your birthdays, and I was going to bring it and I forgot. I'll see you soon. Sorry. So this residential, the lady reached out to me through email and it was interesting because she said I'm being just attacked so heavily that I can't even email you from my house.

She says anytime I try to email you, I get sick, I get a headache, the computers won't work. She literally had to leave the house to be able to get an email through to me. And we schedule it the day of the residential, I get an email from her and she says I actually ended up in the hospital. She said so my mother will be there.

My mother will let you in. She said my mom knows all about the what's and the where's and she can walk you through it. So I said okay, I hope you get the only better. She said we too.

When we get to the house, her mom's there, a very, very nice lady. And she said that there were places in the house where they felt and saw a very dark presence. The mom had actually gotten choked in her sleep. Yeah, the mom wouldn't even stay there.

He went she's in town up from St. George, they booked a bed and breakfast. She stays at the bed and breakfast because she wouldn't even stay at the house. There's plenty of room for her to stay there.

Well, it sounds like she's she must be sensitive. Yeah, I think. Yeah, the mother sense. And so are the kids.

And so it was, when I say kids, I mean adult children. It's actually her daughter and the daughter's wife. And then there's a, is it their child? Did they have it?

There's a child that is there. I don't know if it's their child or if it's like their little sister. Dark presence. There's a couple of rooms that they do not like going into.

There was a second entity that liked or that didn't seem to bother the daughter, but really didn't like the daughter's wife. What else was going on? Oh, fish had died. The dead birds.

They found them under when they moved in about two years ago, and they did a renovation of the place, and a lot of things. They found dead birds in under the cabinets in the kitchen. They redid all of the wiring. The gal is like an IT specialist, and when she moved in, she needed to have a good electrical thing.

The house was probably built, I would say, probably in the 60s or 70s. And the mom said that they spent $15,000 rewiring the house. Yeah, and you could see they redid all of the lights and the ceilings. Everything's updated.

It was a very nice home the way it was decorated. Oh, yeah, no, they... Very modern. You know, when you say you think of a 1960s home, you can kind of think sometimes that's kind of a dated older home that needs a power update, you know, because they might not have the service, but that wasn't the case.

Alright, so we started downstairs in the office. And I turned the light on, and the light came on really dim, and then it started to flash. And I actually have a video of this. I videoed it.

I started to flash, and I looked at the mother, and I said, is this normal? And she said, no. And that was about the point where she said, they just spent $15,000 rewiring this whole house. Everything should work perfectly.

So I turned it off, waited for a second, turned it back on, and I just came on like it was supposed to. So I flipped it back off and on a couple times, and we couldn't get it to flash again. We did an investigation down there. There was a type 3, and we had Ethan with us, and Ethan can actually see things.

And he said, yeah, I see the type 3. She's manifesting this female with no legs. So we chatted with her for a while. You gave her the name Paula?

We named her Paula. Tell them a little bit about why we name and what we do. So we named her Paula because that name actually came up on Skyler's app. Okay.

And she doesn't like the name. We say, well, then don't make it pop up on the app. And again, sometimes when we use that word app, sometimes it's like, that word has not relevant to anything. You know, cute, big deal.

But sometimes you just get things that just are super relevant, and not just one or two things because that could be coincidence, but it was just thing after thing after thing. I mean, almost, I bet you 90% of the words were relevant right when we said it. We give these demonic entities just regular names. We don't give them scary names because that gives them power.

But Ethan said, yeah, it's manifesting as a woman. It doesn't have any legs. She kept touching me and Skyler. We kept trying to stop.

And she kept doing it. We also found a child spirit there, a boy, blonde boy, about 10, and his older brother. Older brother was grumpy, but not like mean grumpy. He was like overprotective.

Like teenage angst, overprotective grumpy. Yeah, like a teenager trying to take care of his little brother. Trying to be a little tough. It was the little boy.

The little boy liked the daughter. He did not like her wife for some reason. And when you say the daughter, you mean? So the homeowner.

Yeah, the homeowner itself, right? Yeah, so the homeowner was fine with the homeowner, did not like the homeowner's wife. So it's like, okay, well, that answers one question because she actually changed offices because she felt so uncomfortable in the office that she was in. So then we went upstairs and we went into this other office.

This other office had been a bedroom. It's where the mom, the homeowner had gotten choked. And it's where she saw this dark shadow. And there was a type three in there.

And that type three manifested as a bear. That's kind of weird, isn't it? Manifust as a bear. So we were upstairs investigating for probably another half hour, 45 minutes.

And we ran back downstairs. After about 45 minutes, because I thought I wonder if that light downstairs flickers if it's been off for a long time. And it didn't. It just came right on.

And there was no. So we only had the flickering when you first went in there. So going back up to where the bear was, Ethan could also see like two or three little type threes that we just called gnomes. He says, they're only like a foot or two up off the floor.

And so we just called them gnomes. Was anybody feeling a Native American vibe at all? Oh, we will get to that. You must be.

You are. The homeowner was half Native American. And the mom just happened to kind of mention that. She mentioned that to me when I was interviewing her during the investigation.

I mean, talking with her about things that happened. Well, I think she mentioned it before we investigated too, because I remember hearing her say as well. Just with the nature of a couple of things, we felt like we needed to call Newman and have him check out a couple things. So one of the questions we asked him was interesting because we always tried to find out if we can why a type three is going to target a family.

Because if there's a reason there, you know, sometimes we can talk to the reason through. For example, you know, if you're drinking a little heavy and you're going to bed drunk every night, that's going to be a weak point because you have lost, you know, you're not on top of your game. And these kind of entities are going to find that little chink in your armor to attack. And so through a bunch of yes, no questions.

The answers that came out were that this, the Monty Kentatee identified as a female. I don't know how they work. Most of the ones who run into kind of manifest as male. Lucy, I mean, we've got other things.

There's Lucy and then there's this Paula. But I think those are the only two that I've really run into that have been female. Well, she just did not like the fact that this was a lesbian couple. It rankled her hide.

And she kind of banked on the fact that the LGBT thing can be a little controversial. And she just kind of ran with that. Worked on that. She worked on that.

So we called Newman. One thing real quick. We talked briefly about the other type three's that were there. You said they're gnome-like.

Yes. Okay. And one of the things that you had determined is they were almost like in training. Is that correct?

Yes. And that was a, we were kind of asking why they were there and what they were doing. And the word training popped up on Skyler's word app. And, you know, through some yes, no questions.

Yes. They were there being trained to follow this training. And it's interesting because we identify them and we have kind of these lower level type three's that aren't really powerful. But sometimes one of them project bigger than they are.

You know, we kind of routinely reference them as kind of a gnome kind of a little thing. And we actually worked, but we told the mother of the homeowner this about it. And she turns and points right down and she's got a whole gnome village right there in the living room, which was kind of interesting that they had. Well, and what she said, the mom said, she pointed to it and it was like little miniatures.

I mean, mushrooms were probably, you know, half an inch tall. It was, it was gorgeous. It was a very beautiful little diorama. There's beetle juice right in the middle of it.

And the mother said, you know, my daughter started doing this gnome, you know, she didn't say diorama, but diorama. And she says, we have no idea why she started doing that. You know, because I said, you know, as soon as I said, oh, they're just little gnome-like. I mean, her eyes just widened.

You know, so that was kind of interesting. So if you haven't heard of Newman before, if you've just started listening to us, he's a medium that we work with on occasion. If there's something that we don't feel like we can handle or to check and make sure we got everything out. We've been giving him a workout lately.

We have. We can get ahold of him. I mean, he can come in remotely and do some stuff. And the interesting thing is when I call him, I always say roughly the same thing.

I give him zero information. I usually call us a hanaman. We're at a home. We're dealing with a spirit that's a little tricky.

We need you to help us. I mean, that's about the end of my stuff. I've seen him do it. He'll just sit there and just nail it thing after thing after thing that you didn't do until him.

Right. And this is in front of, in this case, the homeowner's mother and other investigators were sitting there in the front room while you're making this call. Yeah. And I always put it on speakerphone so that everybody can hear.

And it's interesting because when he talks about demonic entities, he always refers to them as he always. I mean, I do too, because 99% of the time they come through his masculine, right? But it was interesting. I didn't tell him it was a female demonic.

And when I mentioned it to the homeowner, we said, yeah, she's manifesting with that leg. Her eyes got big again. And she's like, I only see it from the waist up when I see it. But Newman kept, he'd say he, and then he'd kind of stop and go it, and he's never done that before.

So I could tell that he was kind of zoning in that it was the female. And so, you know, he cleared a few things. And the child spirit and his kind of semi-grumpy big brother, Newman didn't mention them. And I just got the feeling that when he was crossing some of these other things, they just kind of hopped on board and crossed along with.

And when Newman hung up, we actually, you know, through the dowsing rods asked if they were still there. And the answer was no, and Charles, my spirit guys had no, they crossed everything else crossed. You can tell after crossing and clearing, you know, just the whole atmosphere in these houses is just lighter. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. He cleared a few things. And then he mentioned to the mother, he says, yeah, and you know, blah, blah. I mentioned about the illnesses.

And I didn't say people were getting sick. He could just tell that. And then he did a kind of a clearing slash blessing on the property. And you could hear him.

Sometimes you can hear him mutter, and it doesn't really make sense. But you could hear him kind of muttering this time. It was clear. I didn't understand it, but it was Native American.

I've never heard of a Native American before. That's interesting because she's not Native American. He's like, and he even said, he's like, I don't know why my Native American spirit guy came through. That was really weird.

And we're like, actually. The mother's eyes kind of brightened up when he started speaking in that prayer in the Native American dialect that he was speaking. And she is Native American, but Native American from South America. She's white Anglo and like Mayan or something.

I mean, you know, ways out. But she does have indigenous heritage. Yeah, but it's, and there's a lot of European in there. She, you know, she, you could look at her and say, she's got, you know, an exotic look.

But, you know, it wasn't like, wow, she's really ethnic. I didn't, that didn't come across to me. But she married a Native American. And so the child was well more than half truly Native American in her daughter.

So I just sounded interesting that Newman's Native American spirit guy came through, that's like, that's going to resonate with the family. And he did not know that, which I think is fascinating. Yeah, in fact, when you were talking, I felt something indigenous might have been a play there. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, that's neat. When Newman got done and was pretty much, I did mention to him, and I said, just Newman, just so that, you know, the owner, the homeowner is, you know, more than half Native American. And he, you know, he was a little surprised. He was like, oh, yeah, what else?

Oh, he asked if it's a home was near a body of water. And it was, there's a big pond. And then right behind the homeowner, there's this huge fish tank. And she said, you know, our fish keep dying.

Yeah, and it was probably like a 200 gallon tank. It's a big tank. It was a big, big tank. So, and then we had already determined that there was a negative portal out by the shed.

And then they did mention that they felt really creepy when they went out by the shed, and it was the energy from the negative portal that was killing the birds. So Newman closed that. Anyway, all in all, it was a very, it's probably one of the most interesting investigations I've been on in a while. Very active, very, you know, very interesting, especially with the illnesses and the daughter actually at the hospital.

In fact, she'd been, her mother had said that they thought they were going to bring her home that day, and she'd got ill again that morning. Well, the interesting thing is they said every time they tried to call us or, or something they would, they would get sick. And we hear that all the time. It's like, yeah, you know, when people call us, if they've got something asking their house, the energy always kind of kicks up and gets worse.

Yeah, they don't want you coming over. Yeah, and the mother did say she could feel a real difference in the home as we were leaving. Yeah, and she sent me a text later and she said, I'm not scared to be in the house. Excellent.

So it was a good investigation. We did not mention Vivian was there. Have you want to give her credit for being there? Yeah, and when she walked in, she got there a little bit late.

And when she walked in, she introduced herself to the mother and she just zoned in immediately on that back room. That office area that same area where the mother said that, you know, she had got choked out. Vivian, that was the first thing. Oh, yeah.

She just was just wrong right there. I think we all just, it was so heavy in there. I think we were all just pulled back there. So by next podcast, we should have two residential, a residential in a half to talk about.

Okay. The half where? The residential in a half. Yeah.

So we actually have one schedule to go to a home and do an investigation. The other one is a lady that wants to talk to us. And just the nature of some of the stuff I thought I'd rather meet at a neutral location to chat with her first. So we're just going to, we're going to meet at a library and just chat before we determine what we're going to do.

I thought you were going to have another legless spirit. That's why it would be half. Well, and just if you're new to the paranormal or new listening to us, if it's a demonic entity, demonic entities can form a human, but there's always going to be something missing. Always.

They're going to be missing a foot or eyes. I mean, Lucy doesn't have eyes or an ear. I mean, they cannot form a perfect human body. There's always going to be a flaw.

So in the case of Paula, she couldn't form legs. Interesting. Okay. Okay.

So we ready to move on to our main topic? Yes. All right. So was somebody going to talk about who the main topics brought to us by?

Oteos. Oteos. Fine Mexican dining. Very, I've been there a couple times recently.

It's excellent. Where are they? In London. Oh, okay.

Right on State Street. When you're filling up to it and feel like traveling down to Utah County, you need to come down. They'll take you to go eat there. That was good.

Dot, have you eaten there? I have not been to a radio. Okay, you got it. I know where that I just spent.

You got to take Lindsey. Maybe we'll have a little team meeting. Ooh. Yes.

There you go. Okay. I'd be okay with that. It's amazing.

It really is. Okay. So our main topic today is Mary Mallon. A lot of people go, who is Mary Mallon?

Well, the funny thing is I knew who she was. And I thought, well, that's interesting. So I wrote it down in our list of podcast topics. And then didn't do her, like for a couple years.

And then I put the name down. It's like, oh, this is on the list. We need to talk about a person this time. So when I went to go Google, I thought, I don't remember who this person is.

And as soon as I googled her, I was like, oh, oh, yeah. She was an excellent cook. She was a very good cook. That's right.

That's what she's known for. Was her peach vanilla ice cream. Yes. So.

And a podcast. Have a great day. I think most people will know her as typhoid Mary. Yeah.

That's when I looked her up. That's what it was. It's like that. Okay.

Cause I had no idea of Mary Mallon. There's a paranormal bend to this. So, so, Mary, with us. Well, we'll get there.

That will be the grand finale. But Mary. Her desserts were to die for. You know, so she was born in Ireland in what they say 1883?

Yeah, 1880s, 1890s. I did not take notes, folks. This is all coming from my amazing memory. So maybe you should be afraid.

But anyway, she was born in the late 1800s in Ireland. And if I remember right, she came over to the States by herself. When she was 14. She was 14 years old.

She did stay with some relatives when she got here. So it was just it was, you know, after the potato famine, so things are difficult in Ireland at the time. So over she came. And, you know, she became a good cook.

And she, and I'm sure she knew she could cook in Ireland. But she worked in all the rich houses back east. So when you think of the prejudice that was being waged against the Irish at the time, I mean, there were, you know, anti-Irish societies. There were whole things about not wanting the Irish here.

You know, there was a lot of discrimination in prejudice against the Irish. The Irish need to apply. Yeah, lots of that kind of stuff. And the fact that she was being hired by the elite of New York society.

She had to be a good cook. She had to be someone that was quite phenomenal at cooking and, you know, her domestic skills that way. Because as the story goes and will lay it out, she was recommended over and over and over to different, very wealthy families. And I don't know why one, well, no, I do know why actually.

We'll get there. But yeah, she didn't work just for one family. She worked for many. Yeah, like nine or ten different families.

The story kind of comes to a head when she's working for a family in Oyster Bay. Oyster Bay at the time would have been like Martha's Vineyard now. It's where all the rich and famous people live. I think it was on a long island.

And she was working for a banker there. Was this in war? And he did all the banking for like the Vanderbilt's. Yeah, the very rich.

He was like a big time banker. Well, a whole bunch of people in his family came down with Typhwood. I think one of them died. And so he called in basically.

The health inspector. They called him something else. So I think one of the things they called him a civil engineer. I don't think that means what you think it is.

But basically it helped inspector slash detective. Rat catcher. Mm-hmm. They kind of figure out what's going on.

And so he came in and he's testing the clams. And he's testing the water. Yeah, he's checking all the plumbing to make sure that everything's good. If there aren't any contaminated water sources.

And we didn't need to back up. At the time Typhoid was a poor people slum disease. Rich people did not have. It was not a rich people thing.

And we can. Typhoid is. I was just saying Typhoid is spread through people who are all contaminating. And so in sewage or from people from the flesh and their fans or people just having it, you know, contaminated by touching the war on all of them.

We look at today like, you know, everyone knows what salmonella poisoning is. You always hear reports of salmonella outbreaks. Typhoid is salmonella type bias. It's just a very interesting bacteria.

I was going to ask you that question if it wasn't just a type of salmonella. And interestingly, Mary was on record as stating that she seldom washed her hands. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Anyway, it got down to, they figured out that it was her. And one of the reasons that she went to so many different families is the family would have an outbreak and she would leave. And I think somewhere deep down inside, she didn't know why, but she knew that something about her was making people sick. And so as soon as people got sick, she'd leave and door for someone else.

And as they were doing, as this, I can't remember, was this name sober? Yeah, sober. The detective, the type of detective. He.

I even thought that it's a doctor and some of them. I think it may have been a doctor. And I don't know if that's a medical doctor or a doctorate, but now it was a doctor sober. Yeah, so he was able to kind of put together that she had been the cook for all these families with all these outbreaks.

So, Dr. Soaper gets to go and knock on her door and basically say, and I'm sure he said it a little more gently than this, but you know, in the early 1900s, he has to say, Mary, I need a sample of your poop in your pee. So, it didn't go over too well. And she chased him out of the house.

But he was able to, you know, prove his case to the police. The Health Department. And so they had some people from the Health Department and the Police Department go over to her house and force her to give them the samples that they needed. Tested them.

She tested positive. So they quarantined her on this little island. Was it called Brown's Island? I don't think it was Brown's Island, but yeah, there's something like that.

There was one other little interesting thing about that because there was a time that she did test negative for it. Yes. Tested negative and then she tested positive. So they quarantined her on this little island.

You know, they had other type of patients there and some other patients with some other quarantinable maladies. It's called North Brother Island. North Brother Island. I was close.

Brown brother. It's close. I think it gave her her own little house. It's kind of cute.

I mean, it's nice to be quarantined, but it was cute. And that's actually the place that they speculated she's still hot. It's correct. Yes.

Yes. So I knew we'd turn this paranormal sooner. There I am wanting to talk about medical stuff. I'm like, no, she was an asymptomatic carrier.

No, that's where we get to go. Exactly. So Doc, this is where you can kind of talk about what an asymptomatic carrier is. Well, she just has seven all the type five.

Basically her digestive tract, even though she's not experiencing the symptoms, right? She doesn't have the copious amounts of diarrhea and illness and dehydration. She didn't look dehydrated, pastiated, whatever. And so she just continued on doing her thing.

But because she carried bacteria, she's spreading it to everybody else. You became very ill from it. Right. And you have to think at the times too.

Really quick before I do that. She was basically one of the first known as symptomatic carrier. A symptomatic carrier, but she was super special. That's the word we would use now.

Well, and like the germ theory hadn't even been accepted that long in modern medicine. Right. So you think about this Irish woman, you know, in the late from the late 1800s, early 1900s, she's not quite understanding what an asymptomatic carrier is. She just knows that, you know, she's just cooking food.

She's not trying to make people sick. I'm not sick. You know, she's saying, I'm not sick. I feel fine.

Right. And you're she's probably feeling a lot of persecution for being Irish. Yes. You know, you throw that in there too.

Is this just because I'm Irish and people are making up crap. I'm being a scapegoat. Exactly. But they did say that she was just not very hygienic.

And it's the early 1900s, but the whole idea of washing your hands really was relatively new at that time. I mean, it's not like you've been hundreds of years of washing your hands. They didn't have perell on every sink. Right.

And you know, they asked her, you know, did you ever have typhoid in recovery from it? She said, no, to my knowledge, I've never been sick. So whether she was sick and just didn't have the symptoms, a mild case, or maybe just she just thought she had a little cold and then got better. Or whether it was just naturally in her system is kind of unknown.

They did say that after she died, they took out her gallbladder and it was full of the bacteria. But some people say that that's even questionable, so we don't know. So she is quarantined on this island. They kept her there for three years and they tested every bodily fluid that she had.

They tested the tears. They tested everything. Her sweat, her urine. We won't even get into all the stuff that they tested.

But they tested any place that fluid could come out of. They tested it and they said it just, they said every once in a while they would get a negative test, but they said, you know, the majority of them always tested positive. So they talked to her after three years and they said, okay, we'll let you go, but you cannot cook anymore. You're done cooking.

You can't cook for people. You're making people sick. You can't do it. She's like, okay.

Yeah, because most other things where people wouldn't be ingesting that virus she was fine in most social situations with people. So she started working as a laundress and they lost contact with her pretty quickly. She kind of went underground. And the problem with being a laundress at the time is they just didn't pay as much as these high society cooks.

And so it wasn't too long that she went back to cooking for these high, you know, for these rich families and she actually got into a, she would use a pseudonym. Mary Brown. Mary Brown. There was another one too.

But she would use a real first name, but she changed her last name. Well, she did this for a while and they had it. She was working at a hospital as a cook at this hospital and the hospital had a break of typhoid. And so they called in Dr.

Soper and they're like, we don't understand why we have typhoid. We're a hospital. We understand that you have to wash your hands. And we don't understand how we clean up stuff and we're hygienic.

We don't understand how we have this typhoid. So he's researching and digging around and asking who works there and sure enough he goes into the kitchen and guess who's there? Mary Brown. Mary Brown.

But she looks an awful lot like Mary Malin. One of the things I said was most of the time the food was cooked and that would kill the typhoid. That would kill the bacteria. But her specialty was peach ice cream, which you don't cook.

Right? So all people were getting it from the ice cream. I mean, other things to I'm sure, but that was one of the big spreaders. They took her back in.

Back to the island. Back to the island. The first time she went under, you know, just to rest and I said that just to get the samples and get her there, I mean she was kicking and screaming. And you kind of get it.

She's feeling picked on. But this time she went back willingly and they kept her there until she died. They did say that after a while they would let her go on excursions. But she could go into the city and do things where she wouldn't be cooking and being a threat.

Because just her being asymptomatic didn't mean that she was a threat to people in general. But yeah, it's when you know you are contaminating things with the typhoid food and that kind of thing. Well, how infuriating would it be when she's already spent three years in quarantine? She's aware that she's a super spreader.

She's been told not to work. And then of all places, you went to a hospital cast in Syria. So I would be super angry. Oh, absolutely.

But one of the things I said is when they released her after the first three years, they said one of the things is that they really didn't prepare her to go out. They said the explanation they gave to her just wasn't thorough enough of why she was dangerous. And they also said that they did not teach her any skills or give her any, you know, hey, you can't cook, let's teach you some skills so you can provide for yourself. They're just like, don't cook anymore.

Bye. She had three years to have the talk. Three years to learn some skills. Yeah, definitely a fail on that part.

Yeah, so they said that just the people that had quarantined her failed her a little bit too. Because they didn't prepare her in any way really. Yeah, and there were several deaths. You know, when you think about this, it wasn't like hundreds or thousands.

But they said that they're anywhere between nine and fifty, as what they were saying. But these would have been deaths of more highly society kinds of people, you know, not that the poor are any less important. But you know, because there was typhoid and different things in the poor sections of New York and, you know, people died of typhoid, but not in the society ranks and not with the people that had the money and those kinds of things. And so it was an issue because of that.

You know, New York was working on updating the sanitation and, you know, doing all the things that they could do to cut down typhoid for the masses. Well, an issue too, because it was the more high-profile people and someone said something about it and then they put the pieces together and realized it was one person that was, you know, a super spreader. You know, it wasn't like, oh, I have typhoid and I breathed on somebody. It was, I don't have typhoid and I'm just leaving this, you know, chaos in my wake.

Kind of an issue too. Yeah, and I mean, typhoid is still a thing now. It's quite a million people who have lied to typhoid a year. It kills about 200,000 people.

It's treatable. I mean, it's pretty easily treatable with antibiotics these days. Yeah, this was before penicillin. Right.

And I could see how, you know, if this was in the slums, I don't think anybody would have connected the dots. But like you said, because it was such an unusual thing for these wealthy families to be coming down with an illness that you find where there's poor sanitation probably made this much more high-profile. Right. The other thing they said was at the time typhoid had about a 10% mortality rate.

You know, that's pretty high. And that's even, you know, once you got it, you know, one in 10, we think of COVID and the death rates that were associated with that. And, you know, I don't even know what the number was. It was like half of a percent or less, I'm sure, if you got COVID.

But with this typhoid at 10%. And we saw some things and there was a gravestone that we saw of a young man that was 27. And I said to Raven, this family had money because here's an elaborate gravestone where there was a big burial in his name and said that he died of typhoid. And you could tell this isn't the kind of a gravestone that the poor would have.

This had to have come from a family that a lot of wealth with. Right. And so even there, you know, I mean, when she got it, it didn't matter whether you're rich or poor because you just, you know, you had that 10% chance of passing from it. Well, and then, you know, going back into Mary's defense, and not even under defense, let's say that she was just as hygienic as she could be, but she was so, I mean, you know, her sweat would testify.

You know, let's say she just was, you know, in a sweaty kitchen and, you know, brushes her hair out of her eyes, you know, her forehead sweaty. Boom, she's got, you know, typhoid on her fingers. So, you know, it's hard to say, but she she spread some, some havoc. So they put her, you know, they kept her until she died and she died of a stroke.

I think so. Basically, of old age in her 70s, 69. She was in her life. But yeah, she had a stroke and then deteriorated after that.

Yeah. She died in the late 60s and I think someone went into her room and just found on the floor. I think they said it was a stroke. But yeah, kind of a kind of a sad life for Ms.

Nowan. So the paranormal part of this, I gotta pull it up. Because we don't just talk about super spreaders. This is not a medical.

We have a medical expert. Doc's medical show. It's not a medical. You're giving me ideas.

Somewhere here I have. Okay. Mary Mallon. It says that there are dozens of spots where her disease-ridden spirit, I thought that was kind of harsh.

Her disease-ridden spirit can be seen. There's hundreds of places that she's actually said to haunt. So I'm going to assume maybe everywhere that she spread her illness. But the Raymond cemeteries where her ashes were buried, it's got countless tales of a wandering spectrum matching her description that jump out in your tourists.

Yeah, but her description from all the photographs and everything she does, she was a very good looking woman. She was pretty. They show pictures. One of the pictures that you see the most of her laying in the bed in the quarantine, she just looks pissed.

But she's a pretty woman. She is. The other one, the picture that you'll see a lot is of her cooking and there's skulls coming down into the food that she's making. That was kind of interesting.

On YouTube we'll throw a picture of that up so you can look at it. And then the picture of her in the bed looking just pissed as hell. Oh my gosh. So we'll get some pictures of her on the YouTube channel.

YouTube slash events. I could see her being a restless spirit of just you lock me up. So there's a hospital called the Sloan Hospital for Women, probably where she worked before she got taken in again. It says it's not only inundated with Mary's ghosts, but also the restless dead of those whose deaths she caused.

It says Mary's ghost along with countless other spirits, demons, and creatures of nightmarish proportions. I have to say that part of it word for word because that's cool. Nightmarish proportions called North Border Island, their home. If you figure you've been quarantined there for a good chunk of your life, you're probably going to haunt there.

Well, and then all of the other people that were quarantined there and died there. So North Border Island is located in New York's East River, kind of between Bronx and Rikers Island. It actually has a lot of atrocities kind of baked into its history. For a little while it was where the Riverside Hospital was.

It was a clinical unit that handled infectious diseases and isolated victims of these diseases. It was also the site of a shipwreck of a steamship that's called the General Slocum. It had an issue there on June 15th, like, you know, before, and more than a thousand people died on it. Oh, was that the one with the prisoners of war or something?

Not sure. German prisoners, and they had to jump from a burning ship. Possibly. It doesn't get that many details.

I've heard that. Yeah, and that was right there. Yeah, but it said more than a thousand people died and their bodies all washed ashore. So that either is haunted by not only Mary Mallon, but like gobs and gobs of other people.

Yeah. It says there's a telltale sign that you're in the presence of Mary's phantom. It's powered, they say, just biological havoc on your system. Folks say that they feel the presence of typhoid Mary's ghost.

They feel this onset of fever-related symptoms, hallucinations, abdominal pain, weakness, headache, salamut, and diarrhea, and red spots flowering like mad over their chest. Wow. Indeed has a disease-ridden soul. Yes.

Wow. And they're sure they didn't just eat some badness before they're eating it. You know, there's that too. There's that.

So I found that very interesting. I've always heard of typhoid Mary. And it's even, I mean, it's so ingrained into history that even- On our lore or culture. You know, if anybody has illness following around, then what do you do?

You call them a typhoid Mary. Nope. And it was the papers back in the early 1900s that actually gave for that term, a typhoid Mary. You know, if someone's sick all the time, you're such a typhoid Mary.

I wonder, is this Riverside Hospital on North Brother Island still standing? I don't know, but that would be a fascinating place to go and investigate, I think. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that island, whether the hospital is standing or not, would probably be very active.

Absolutely. We'll have to check into that. We could do just a podcast on this now. That might be one to look at.

All right, Emmet, do you have a thing to talk to us about? Well, yeah, it's, I was watching Kindred Spirits the other night, and I noticed Adam had this tiny little SLS camera. It was basically a phone and a teeny little projector. It looked like a scale model of the Xbox projector.