“Universally Regulated”

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You're buying influence. Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise. This is the best-hang podcast featuring Max Kerman, Shane Cunningham, and I am Mike Kerman. Welcome to the best-hang podcast.

I'm Mike. We've got Shane. We're all here. Shane, I'm actually together here at the office in 299 Quincefree West.

Max, I can see that you are after traveling the world. You're zooming in from your home in Toronto, Ontario. Actually, we're all in Toronto right now. We're all in the city, but we're not together.

Why don't you come down to the office? We've got to done this together. Yeah, why didn't I? I don't know.

I should have. That would have been great. Wait, I'll be there in 10 minutes. Yeah, I'm getting over.

Guys, question for you. Shane, we're starting 15 minutes late. You had to take a production call. And you've been very, very busy.

Every time I call you, you're in the middle of a call or you're on set. My question is, is it possible to be a showrunner for a show and also be a father at the same time? Well, you need a village to help you out. So it's only possible if you have an unbelievable support system.

I think you're supposed to get a sketch show when you're unencumbered by family and children. Maybe encumbered sounds harsh on them, but you know what I mean? I'm definitely in a too many people to thank situation, but if it comes to just with the kids and everything, I have to thank my in-laws, John Lorna, who have been unbelievably helpful. My mother Patricia, well, you queue it up.

What do I do? Just like these people might be listening. My mom listens. My in-laws listen.

You know, I can't thank Alex because she was on set with me every day. So she wasn't really helping with the kids. She was the same boat as me. And yeah, you know, this is Brad, my dad.

I was thinking I was plugging in my I'm using the in-ear monitors that I use on stage for my headphones today. You did cut me up mid-speed just I was thinking for saying. I want to know Shane as you're saying the answer. Okay, so that's my inter monitors.

Adequate Shane Chatter is a finish now. All right. So in your monitors, what's the thought? Do you think that because we've moved to this like zoom era of broadcasting, where it's like back in the good old days, like if you want to be on TV and like give a report on something, you need to put on a suit and you need to do your hair and you need to go into a studio and look sharp and there's real professionalism now because of COVID in the modern world, all these media professionals, like there's also a lot of like sports talk shows that you see on Sportsnet like, you know, that are like half radio show, half television show and there's like talking heads.

Everyone has a different kind of headphone and it kind of annoys me because sometimes you see people with like really ratty looking like just headphones and sometimes there's like the big cans, the classic radio head cans. Do you think it should be regulated? This is bothering you? I just realized that kind of bothers me because it cheapens everything, the aesthetic of television.

Do you think there should be like a regulation like type of headphone if you're going to be reporting live from home or something? Yeah, I mean universally regulated or you mean within each station? Maybe within each station or just like kind of a standard access. Yeah, because it just feels kind of ramshackled, right?

Yeah, I think everyone, the station should provide the people with the headphones because especially if you want people to look nice, like your hair right now, Max, it's wild, it's out of control. But your rocks are that's kind of what you want. But if you're a reporter, you probably want little earbuds that's not going to fuck up your hair somewhat. That's right.

Little ones you can't even see. I don't even want to see the headphones. I want the in-ear pieces. You know what I mean?

Like the good old classic on the scene reporters? What are your thoughts, Mike? I think nothing matters, man. Nothing matters.

Not even in-ear headphones. Specifically in-ear headphones don't matter. I don't know. What do we even do?

What does TV anymore? What do we consider? You know what I mean? It's like there used to be a standard that was understandable, a construct and we don't have anymore for better or longer ties.

It's the democratized 299 Queen Street West, the hub of Canadian media. As I harp on about the death of traditional media, I think it's democratized talent. Anybody can do anything now, which is a good thing. But also we don't really know what we're looking at.

What do people want? They even want someone in a suit with a thing. Is that how they can send their news anymore? Do they get it on Twitter?

This has been a conversation for almost a decade now and we still don't have answers. We're just sort of in the wild west of what it's going to be. There is no standard anymore is the point, Max. Although it seems you would like to have a standard.

I wish I had some kind of standards. It's like the headphones look better. That's all. So Mike, do you like over the headphones?

I don't know. I mean, if everyone should have a version of the headset, like something that comes out of your door, but I'm antiquated. Like my idea of TV, you'd have a little wire that would come up the back and go into your earpiece. If you're someone that's doing a remote interview or reporting from somewhere, you wouldn't have an air pod.

You certainly wouldn't have the cans. Like Max is saying. I think everyone would have a little bit of the proper thing. You know, I put these in ears behind.

I'm wearing them in front of me like their full headphones. But normally on stage, I tuck them behind. They go behind your ear and then they go down your neck and through your shirt and your back. I think everyone should just do that.

I think we need to go back to something a little bit more formal. Hide a bit. So we're not so aware. It does feel like we're in the air.

We're still like coming out of COVID and remote interviews and maybe no one will ever do like a traditional car wash anymore. We're like, Paul McCartney comes 2299. Maybe it's like, why would I go to 299 and do like however many interviews I can do in Toronto when I can sit in my kitchen and literally do 150 interviews. Yeah, that's why Max isn't here right now.

Going 10 minutes down the street has become too much. Exactly. What do we think about it? I know we're in the office today.

I think I don't have to hang with him. It's off. Yeah, but you didn't even care to ask because you're like, this is much more convenient to just roll up. I'll ask.

I'll ask. I'll ask. I actually have to go shopping for the tour. We're going to walk by to 99 queen probably two hours.

Maybe we'll maybe you guys can pop out and say hi. Maybe not though. Yeah. Okay.

What if we go? Another question. Do you guys think what do you guys think of the NBA fashion trend where the players can wear whatever they want on the bench versus up until two years ago, they have to wear suits and also for the coaches, they had to wear suits on the bench and then now they're just wearing like sweats. You know, like, I don't know if I like that either.

And as a guy who hates suits. Like, I don't even really own a suit. I hate wearing a suit. I'm an artist.

I should be able to wear whatever the hell I want. But there's some things that I'm like, what put on the suit guys? What do you make of that? I think usually if you're on the bench and you're wearing a suit because you're injured, right?

You want the guy who's injured to be comfortable. Well, it haven't been the most comfortable. He could be in a snuggy, laying down hospital bed. Anything.

Oh, yeah. That sounds nice. They bring out a hospital bed. And put your feet up.

We'll go on a couch. I don't know. Well, they're just in theory. Well, I mean, there's a couple things like the coach thing.

They're kind of like, Jim teachers. Now I think that might be like a nurse quote. I don't know if that was too late. Yeah.

Yeah. So like the sweat suits are like their vibe. And what you're getting back to, though, is literally whether it's a suit, a formal suit for an NBA coach or a headset, you're sort of lamenting the sort of changing nature of like these concerts we have. As far as the players, that goes back to like that was David Stern thing.

Because Alan Iverson, that's right. He was trying to, this is a very controversial decision that David Stern, the former commissioner, they made, which essentially you'd have like Alan Iverson on the bench, you'd have all of these sort of like young NBA players who were sort of in the hip hop culture and sort of that style. David Stern thought that it was a turn off to sort of like season ticket buyers, like the affluent white people with money in the suburbs, maybe weren't as into coming to the games if they saw all of these sort of like urban styles on the bench. So Stern's like, let's class it up.

Let's go suits. If you look at the NHL, all these like far more millionaires, they come walking into the arena with their suits and their hairs, like, you know, it's like a survive. And people had different thoughts on it. What was the motivation behind it?

One, do you think the decision initially was bad? Yes. I think it was a racist decision, immediately. But now you've come around on it.

Now you want them in suits? No, I think I'm just missing a formality. There's everything to seem so loosey-goosey. Why though?

I don't know. I don't know. It's awesome. You're not an Iverson guy.

Now it's transitioned into fashion. Were you not an Iverson guy, though? I love, I have an Alan Iverson vintage t-shirt from the 90s. I bought Alan Iverson shoes, like three different occasions of the 90s.

I drew pictures of Alan Iverson. At one point, my like grade, he was always in suits though. He changed his outfit. He just removes all his tattoos.

His son is doing a couple of disturbing things. Number one, he keeps on drawing pictures of Alan Iverson. And to make a pitter, he's always in a suit. He's never in anything.

He has no tattoos in these drawings either. Yeah, that's probably the only reason I have tattoos is because Alan Iverson. Anyway, guys, I just had those two topics at the top. I have some other ones written down.

What's on your mind? What are you guys thinking about? Okay, I'll stay on this topic. What about doing news reports?

But the reporter is in front of a curtain the whole time. Because you never see the report. Yeah, radio then basically. Right?

Yeah, but what if they're because I find a lot of the curtain behind a curtain. Like, you know how the Malcolm Gladwell things about orchestras, they were often doing orchestras in-person auditions? They want to judge a space on their town. So women weren't getting cast into orchestras or things because there was a bias towards men.

But I find when I watch the news, a lot of these reporters are so attractive. So I think if we add the curtain, we could get better reported. You know, it's a good question because this kind of gets to sort of like the uncomfortable truth about like what is like the idea of news casting. Are we putting the best journalists in those anchor positions or are we 100% sort of putting people in those positions based on how they look aesthetic?

Or does it even matter? You know what? When it's like the most integrity in the world and it's whoever. I think in the past, they would have been like career journalists.

And I think that they can have some say if you have enough powers and anchor over editorial. I mean, like I want to cover the war in Ukraine, let's say, and it's like I want to cover it a certain way. They may have that powers and anchor. But I think to your point for like, you know, hundreds of stations across America and even in this country, you're basically reading a telephone.

You're talking about like reading someone else's words, yes, because I don't mean to diminish the art form. I was genuinely curious, like, how much are they doing? Yeah. And I guess the same could be said for actors because actors are just reading lines.

But Daniel Day-Lewis is definitely a cut above, right? Yeah, he's like, he's obviously one of the best in the world of what he does. But I think that's why people want to get into acting so much is because like the heavy lifting is almost like, are you charismatic? And are you believable when you read someone else's lines?

It's like the cinematographer, the director, the writers, the producer, so many people are doing so much work. You get to show up sort of like be cool or charismatic or emotional or whatever. And you get paid the most and then you get the most notoriety. Yeah, that's a great game.

That's why everyone wants to be a musician. If you can be a musician, if you're good enough to write the songs, it's like the best gig because you're just getting on stage and everyone thinks you're amazing and you've changed their life with their lyrics and all that stuff. I will say this about musicians. And this is the thing I've always respected the most.

It's like obviously everybody wants to be in our calves or whatever, Justin Bieber or whatever that is, like Shane said, the zero, one percent that make it or good living and thousands of fans show up every time you play in the city. But I've always kind of had like, I have this sort of like deep-seated sort of like, I don't know if it's like respect or awe for like the bar people, like the bar musicians that are like, I'm 45 and I show up and I play like my 25 covers or I'm still playing my originals. And it's like, that really is like such a love for performing and writing your songs that goes beyond like, I don't know, whatever, like we consider successful, like if that's a lot of money or like a million fans. It's like, if people are still doing it at that point, because like, I like writing songs a lot, like I wrote a ton from like 15 to 25 or something.

But I didn't love it so much that it's like, you know what, like when it comes to my free time and what I want to do, I'm going to go down into my office and I'm going to write some music and I'm going to play it next Saturday and I'm going to try and get all my friends out. It's like, that's like, I'm, I don't have that within me. And so I think it says to me that I don't, that like that fire is not as deep as it is for a lot of these guys and gals that are out doing it still in spite of the fact that they're not in RKELs. Max, I wonder where you fall on that spectrum.

If things hadn't broken for you sort of out of university, you guys get the record deal, you guys sort of start doing things. Would you still, you know, decade later be doing that or would you just be like a CEO of a company? It's a good question. I do have a real love of music.

Like yesterday I was working on some music. It wasn't even RKEL's related. It was like for a friend's podcast. I'll tell you a later.

But I just needed a theme song and I just got to go into the studio with my friend Derek Hoffman to produce RKEL stuff. And we just like kind of banged together an idea in an hour and I just had the best time and it kind of gave me and I've listened to this like 55 seconds snippet like a hundred times since we did it. Is it any good? It's awesome.

It's very good. Podcast, podcast, listen to the podcast. We're the same headphones when you do a podcast. And so I do, I do genuinely love music, but I do think, yeah, I don't know if I would have had that same kind of drive if it didn't work out.

I would have had a drive to do something that was really enjoyable. That's why I work so much is because it doesn't really feel like work and I just, but I know how precious it is as you have to work a lot to hold onto the thing because if you don't, then it could go away from you and then your life is, you know, a different life and I love my life right now. But I will say this conversation about like musicians that just like love it. I think about Tom Offit and Tom Offit's our trumpet player and Tom is the epitome of just like a working musician.

He probably plays four or five nights a week. He tours with our KELs. He'll tour with other bands too. So he'll leave the city.

But basically he has like a collection of gigs at different clubs and stuff. He'll do the odd wedding gig, but he tries to not do that anymore. And his life is just, he enjoys his life so much because he genuinely loves the trumpet. He loves the challenges of like learning new music all the time.

He genuinely loves hanging out in bars and drinking four to nine drinks in a night and just like having great conversations and having to smoke outside. And it's like never destructive. Tom is like genuinely probably one of the most happy, well adjusted people I know. He'll wake up, you know, at 11 or 12, he'll read his book, I'll have a very easy going afternoon, then I'll put his trumpet on his shoulder and ride his bike down to the gig.

And I was like, oh, like, oh, like just your satisfaction with your life as a musician is what I don't think a lot of people have. And he has it. So I think that to your point, like the admiration for the working musician who just like really loves it and loves practicing, you know, like when we're on one tour, like Dennis just practices saxophone, like scales and stuff. All the I was like, do doing scales.

He's he's in his forties. He's been playing saxophone for 25 years professionally at the highest level. And he just practices all day. I was like, not because he probably has to just because he wants to and he loves it.

I think that's pretty cool. Absolutely. It's maybe not good at anything else though. This is all I can do guys.

Well, there's that with people as well. What's a can we give a little update on the show stuff? So you guys basically done filming, right? And there's just getting into edits and stuff, right?

Yeah, we've got, you know, three or four little things to shoot. But yeah, pretty much we've got a lot of edits. Maybe we've seen 30 something rough edits. And it's exciting.

And you know, sometimes you send them to me. Can I watch them? I give you notes. I think we know all the notes.

Like, like, I'd love notes when we feel like we don't need notes. So that's when I think the best notes come. It's like, it's like, it's like you get an edit like this. And it's the percentage that it's at you have too many notes, because trust me, we see these edits and we're like, we have a bucket of notes.

You need to see it when like the bucket is addressed. And it's like, it's more looks molded into what it will be as opposed to what it is now. You would be incredibly annoying. You'd be like, maybe it could be a little faster.

We'd be like, we know, we know, we know, just stop. What if that was color corrected? Yeah. Yeah.

But yeah, there are some that are far long, which we could show you just to maybe potentially say you. Yeah. Yeah. I don't mean to offend you because I see that you're not taking this in the spirit, though, which is like, I'm just saying that you're being a difficult.

Okay. I'm not trying to be a good producer. And you need to look. You are good.

Being patient is a big part of being an executive producer. Also speaking of being an EP, we were supposed to be there for one of the last two days of shooting. I knew that was never going to happen. We talked on this podcast about how like, oh, what would Max be like an acting situation?

We were thinking about what role can we throw him into when he comes to set on one of these days? I would have loved to. I would have loved to be on set with you guys. Actually, you know what?

I would have loved to show up and then leave because it would have been boring. Yes, I know. I get that. But you could you brought it up.

It's not like we said, Hey, Max, why don't you swing by? You said, Hey, can I come by? I said, yes. And then you didn't.

I mean, it is interesting though, like, I guess that it's wrapped in the sense that the main unit is wrapped, you know, for like people that like the sort of bulk of the show that was shot was like a 17 days, not straight. We had weekends off, but we're like 12 hour days. And that was where it's like all of the cast and the crew and everybody was really together. It was like a summer camp, but for like 17 days.

And that was like a very unique experience that I mean, I don't know how much we've gotten into stories or if we'll wait to have maybe like Darryl Wong, the DP to come on or whatever. But there were a few funny things that happened that we share like when we were shooting the Turner Tonight one. Oh, well, we can't share that. I think we tell you what I was saying names, but it was a funny moment on set where it's this sketch called Turner Tonight and the bit is like a late night talk show like a Jimmy Fallon type show.

And Shane is we can talk with the concept. I think they want people to see it. Do we want to say specifics? Shane is a guest on the show.

I'm playing a Jimmy Fallon type talk show. I'm Eugene Levy. Yes. So anyway, but it's a little weird.

Anyway, so long story long is Shane's like in the guest seat. I'm at the desk. We're kind of going through a few takes, but it's like anything where it's like, I'm using a new gym, and he comes out of the curtain and the band plays and all that stuff. But so we reset back to like once to get the shot again.

So Shane's behind the curtain. So he's not like anywhere. And but I can see Shane from the desk, like from the talk show desk. I can see through a little sort of like glass window.

Like a cellophane. Yeah, window. Yeah. But only I can see Shane and then everybody else that cast in the crew where the audience would be for a talk show is like in front of you, but I'm like alone on stage.

Something happens on set where tensions boil over due to it's not like mix of technical and other things where people are like for on the set of the really had tensions boil over that much. So this is the first time. So it's a little bit like, Oh my goodness. Day 15 to so there's only two days left.

So in fact, it's pretty much a miracle that everybody's working together. 12 hour days to sketch is a really trying to grind that it took that long for like a moment like that to happen. So it's happening off in corner with some people and it's it gets it escalates. It gets loud like like there's now like the confrontation is like, can you tell my names we could be promoted something?

No, well, after what the point of the story is it's a very common thing for this, this sort of thing to happen on set, but it's it's happening, but I'm feeling very naked and alone on stage because everybody else is like 30 people in the room. They there's I'm just the only thing on stage with the lights hitting me, but I'm also like, I want to be I'm also, you know, an exec producer, show runner on this thing. So like along with Shane and John, it's like I'm also a person in somewhat of a position of authority, but I'm also acting and I'm the only people are kind of looking at because they don't want to look at the confrontation or at least that's the way I feel. And I'm in my little cocoon of safety in my like fake green room that they built for Eugene.

And only I can see Shane on side stage essentially. So this this confrontation is happening. It's very loud and I look over at Shane who I can see him, but I'm the one that can see Shane and he does this thing where he kind of is like making eye contact with me and me and him. Obviously we're like best friends.

We're making strong eye contact in this moment where this like this confrontation is happening like this and that and fucking blah blah blah. And Shane and I are looking at each other and then Shane just gives me a look like almost like gotta go and then he slowly walks out of the frame so that I can't see anymore like he wants to avoid it. And it took everything in me not to explode laughing. Like I have these huge Eugene eyebrows on my mustache is painted skin color.

It's so funny with his gray hair and his eyebrows. And he just kind of like it's almost like that giddy look like you get when someone's getting into like there's something happening in the class and just like go and then he just sort of like slid out of the frame so I couldn't see anymore behind the window. And I was just shaking because I wanted to laugh but I couldn't. The thing ends up resolving itself.

The set settled down. We end up getting the rest of the day but it was just that moment felt very much like a I don't know like it was surreal and it was exciting too for me because I felt so safe in my little fort. And like you know like you get to like I watch cringe videos on YouTube but I was like I was part of one like I kind of a set freak out and I'm like I'm there live but no one can see me and I'm dressed up and I felt like I'm real showbiz now you know. It felt like real show business and it was such it was such an innocuous sort of moment that like literally lasted like a minute but in the moment it was very funny that you and I kind of had this giddy like we're still in class or something and we're making the show and I can't laugh because I'm everyone can see me but no one can see you so you can pull that shit and try and make me laugh but it was very funny.

But yeah that was a good moment. Anything else stand out to you? There's lots of stuff I just I need to make like a list and actually think about it on the spot. Retrospective on the shooting of the show and it'll be fun.

Yeah. We'll do a couple of episodes on funny stories and you guys can all collect and we get John. Also if you get like John and Mark involved you guys can bounce each other off bounce each other. Oh yeah.

Well and then it rolls too because I remember things I don't remember but one thing I did want to say sort of about the rap of the show and we had talked about this a bit Shane was making a show like this. It was a unique experience. We made it TV show. So we made the Crave show which was like that was more like a talk show and it was set up here 29.

This was like this sprawling sort of like we didn't know we didn't know and then you sort of make it and you learn a lot but what happened is the last thing we shot was this cowboy sketch starring Shane as the sexy drifter and everyone who was the last day and was kind of designed to be the last day because everyone could get in the cowboy outfit like cast and crew people were extra. It was like a really sort of fun sort of last day and I thought a lot about sort of like the show what we're doing at the show and you know we always talk about like these creative endeavors like what can you get high off anymore. You know what I mean? It's like okay well we had a show like Max it's like I don't know if you still get high off of playing arena.

It's like I'm sure there's elements of it that you can find but it's like it'll never be the same as like the first time that you did something like that and so I was kind of like oh yeah like it's cool making a show but you're in it and there's so many things to solve every day that you're kind of like you're just kind of like doing what's in front of you. When they called the rap Andrew Ferguson who is one of our partners, producing partners on this, he sort of made like a speech like everybody came into the main room of like after that we'd sort of done a last shot and we didn't call rap yet we got everyone in the main room and Ferg basically sort of made you know he made a speech about what we had done and how sketch is the hardest thing to shoot or to do to make in television just because there's so many different setups and and sort of demands when it comes to all the different departments and it was very emotional and I didn't know if I was going to be emotional. I'm like Jillian and Bella had talked about younger than us and they've been like we're making the show and it's so exciting and we're going to be so sad when it wraps because you know they were living in Hamilton for the 17 days that we were shooting and all that are for longer than that and so it's like this really cool thing for them so they were saying they're going to get a motion. I was like talking to Shane and John like you guys think you're like you're going to get like a motion on rap or whatever and I don't know did you think you would going into the rap moment where it was kind of the culmination of everything coming through.

I didn't think anyone would. I wasn't sure. I never even thought about it because I was freezing my ass off that day. It was very cold.

Although it was the illusion of an interior we might as well have been outside that you could have seen my breath so I didn't think about until it happened. I was worried about my speech that never got thrown in. So I was like okay I prepared all that shit for nothing if I didn't prepare one I would have to give one. But anyway when I saw Jillian and Bella crying when I see people crying nothing will make me cry more than seeing someone else get emotional and then I was overcome with emotion and then I didn't actually cry but I definitely got buried teary-eyed and then hugged them both and they you know Bella's like you changed my life or something.

I was like oh jeez it's like they feel that good about it which made me feel great and it just it honestly put pressure too like we got to make this show good for these people so we don't let them down. Totally. And yeah I felt very proud to be a part of the team and all that. You had talked about in a car ride enjoying the process over the end product.

Yeah. And I found I actually was able to do that. For me I was having fun like every day and appreciating it in the moment which I find it's very hard for that to happen in life especially if you're young and Jillian and Bella are like 15 years younger than me and every day they would say like this is the time of our lives and they're like wow you have that much foresight. Yeah.

You can actually appreciate that in the moment like I can barely do it and I can only do it because I'm older that I know like I'm appreciating even like my diminishing youth that I have which I think is helping me appreciate the moment all the more but they were able to appreciate it so that gave me extra appreciation for them and the project also. Well yeah like when Ferg wrapped out Jillian and Bella and they got these big round of applause and it was just so emotional and it was great and I was thinking because I was like oh you know like I've been a part of things like I kind of knew it would be I didn't think it would be emotional and to Shanks but when I saw them like being you know emotional I got emotional but then I was like why am I so emotional right now and I was trying to think about this afterward I was talking about this the next day where I was like one it was freaking freezing on that set and I mean this little thinking cowboy. You cry when you're cold. But it's like your body is kind of always tense so then it's like over you kind of have like a moment.

I also knew there were some beers waiting so I was like they're taking too many beers. I'm the showrunner. So but I think what it was was what I realized in the moment is I was like um this what's happening around this wrap on like a season one of a tv show and this thing that's kind of we're doing is it's like so many things had to happen to get to this point we can't recreate this you can't buy this moment at all like it's like it's like it's like you can't you can't like so many things had to happen 20 years of like us working tv to get it then then the people that worked on it were all great vibes and it was amazing so it's like to get a moment like this like a rich person couldn't like build a construct where it's like I made my own show and everybody cares and they're all invested in people are crying as we call rap it's like so much shit has to happen so it felt like the most unique moment it was the most unique I'd never experienced anything like it before and I was like you can't recreate it like you need 10,000 things to happen and a couple years to get to that moment it felt like an earned like emotional moment for everybody in the room and I was like wow like I've never I've experienced this before and that was exciting and emotionally. Yeah it felt like it doesn't matter if the show comes out it almost wouldn't matter because the experience was worth it.

100% how was it? Like I would come shouldn't dictate how you viewed like the process but yeah it sounds like in talking about this you know how like everyone rolls their eyes at actors who just talk about the process and just like how it interrelated to the human spirit and connections with each other you guys just did that for the last 10 minutes. It was amazing though. I was trying to share my the human spirit.

No it's honest it's honest and truthful. You're probably right though it probably is like pretty much like I'll find this in that. I'm not going to listen to it because I've had moments in my life like that and they are truly like the highest high and like the deepest sort of like creative emotional space you can be in but I think we all are all kind of like cynical sort of funny people and whenever you hear you know you know actors I'm sure we all know actors who talk about their work as if they're like like reaching God and you're always like okay yeah yeah. I don't think we're taking it that far next.

I think you're the ultimate pontificator and I think when we're pontificating a little bit talking about things you're like oh getting a taste of my own medicine. That's true. That is true. Oh this does seem more weird than someone else.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah well it's almost like the need to share the experience. Not that it was religious.

Like I think what you're talking about is like if we were talking about what it would mean for people it's almost like how we perceive it. Less than like what we did will really heal some people. You know like I don't know how it'll be. I do remember it.

Yeah I'm kind of saying the opposite of that. In high school I was in a musical and it was like a class and then at the end of the term you put on the musical and put that experience of like working on the show every day after school and then like it's amazing. It is such a cool thing to be. I you know what I think more adults should have outlets like that.

I think you just sort of summed up maybe the way I was trying to say. It's almost like graduating high school that feeling that you can only have when you're a teenager but you somehow recreate it as adults. Yeah exactly. Which is that's probably the unique that's the trick that's hard to do.

That's more often than that. It's like join a few courses. Something that makes you feel because everybody's just so tired and cynical you know. I think it's good for the human spirit you know.

Yeah well now I'm scared to talk I don't know. No no no no Max I don't embarrass myself. No no no no. I love it.

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This is podcast advertising without barriers. Get started at acast.com slash advertising. Guys speaking of friction in the workplace. Oh oh have you ever gotten so mad at a colleague that you threw up lunch like Draymond Green did.

Oh right. Sorry quickly for anybody is the one say where I dream on green had a sort of confrontation with a younger player Jordan pooling is a third year player for your player anyway. He it seemed like a yappy yappy thing and then Draymond literally like clocked him like haymaker at him in the face and the practice footage came on. No one should have saw the footage got leaked.

That's what Max is talking about. Have I ever been in a conversation with a coworker ever gone. I've even gotten physical with like people that are trying to fight me like a bar like so I can't imagine that I would ever like no the answer is no. Of course it should be however seen something physical at work.

I'm like you've gotten physical No I people have wanted to get physical but I run away. Yeah once a guy chased me for the longest time around a pole and I just get running around the pole and it couldn't get me. This was at a bar. Oh yeah this guy was on cocaine I think.

What bar was it? This was at like whiskey Joe's in Hamilton. I worked at a place called Telese and I went there with a couple of the women I worked with and I think this guy thought one of the women liked me and then he liked the woman and he goes all right and he starts chasing me and he just runs at me. I didn't even he didn't even say like oh I'm gonna fight you but I can tell he wanted to hit me and we just chased me around the pole and I had to wait for a cab to come and then I saw cab hailed it and ran in the cab to say go and laugh.

He just went to buy you a drink. No he wanted to get me. He apologized years later I saw him at Hess. Oh this guy and he was just saying he was real messed up at the time.

Oh man. There's a max. I was gonna ask you you work in an industry where emotions can run high and you have volatile creatives everywhere. Alcohol is consumed in the workplace.

Have you ever seen a physical altercation? Has your band ever happened? No no our band is pretty sedate for the most part. Like everybody's pretty chill and I think we've also created a culture that like it's such a long road that like if somebody fucks up on stage or it doesn't matter like we are like the philosophy and the other Kels is like let's just sort of like laugh like take note of it and make sure that we correct the things that need to be corrected but let's just laugh off everything because nothing really matters.

It's all just like fun and games really. There has been the odd storm off if I'm being honest and I won't mention what what we were recording in LA and one band member took offense to what somebody said and and then just left for the afternoon we just didn't know where he went for for six hours but then he came back the next day. That's fine. That's good.

But I did hear about we had a really good time in Europe and so there's a guy in Lights and Band this guy for Rody who is awesome who is just like such a funny smart interesting guy and we joke that like he'd be in the downstairs lounge on the bus just kind of up drinking beers and just talking to whoever would come into the lounge till like three or four in the morning but he was really into smart conversation. Whenever there's guys who like drinking and get into dumb conversation I'm like get me the fuck away from you and I know some people like that who are just like you guys are just getting dumber every 10 minutes and you're getting angry and you're getting stupid and I fucking hate that but there's some drugs that I absolutely love to be around because it's like they get funnier and the conversation kind of gets more interesting and so Brody would would have these like late night I call it like a late night talk sports show where basically he was the host and anybody who walked in would be like the caller in and he'd debate them about the Toronto Maple Leafs he hates the Leafs he's a Tottenham fan so Dennis or Saxon one player who loves Chelsea would come in and they talk and it was just a very like fun environment to be around but one night Tony was sleeping upstairs on the bus and he got awakened by people screaming at each other so he said oh my god I got downstairs and like defend Brody and then he just heard the words Chelsea and it turns out that Dennis was just talking about Chelsea the football team and Brody's a Tottenham fan and they were just literally screaming at each other so loud that they woke up somebody up floor above them and then bro it's halfway down the stairs like oh never. Well it's fine there's also probably different cultures like you know you talk about being in England and seeing like a proper like soccer brawl or something like I think there's groups of friends that probably just come to blows and it's not a thing that's a whereas like I see the J- the J-Mong Green Jordan pool thing and I'm like if I'm Jordan pool I just feel like I feel so embarrassed. Oh really yeah like but if you're hammered I think you feel less embarrassed I think they were both out and drinking and it's 4 a.m.

or something in the video. The video sucks like that's the thing that like if you're Jordan pool is like nephew everybody's talking about how your uncle got his face fucking smacked in by dream on green like all that stuff plays into your pride too. It's like it's like it's toxic maxillinity. This is like obviously like when I don't understand it's like when people were like Chris Rock was really embarrassed by the slap or Jordan Peele was really embarrassed by the punch.

My brain doesn't go there at all because I'm just like no like they like both guys were sucker punched like it only is embarrassing for the person who lost their temper. It's like that guy's a fucking idiot like uncle Jordan who got punched out. It's like what are you talking about like just in the moment in the Oscars the like obviously the winds have changed but at that moment a lot of people kind of were almost siding with Will really and then he got a standing ovation and I bet you he was so embarrassed until weeks later it wasn't till people changed their tune. Chris Rock found out like energy sort of like what you're saying is yeah it's a Will side where it's like don't make a joke about a man's wife and now there's some of that right right after and then obviously that's shifted but I don't know you think culturally though that like if you get hit you shouldn't like defend yourself.

I'm saying like I don't I'm saying that I think that this is like a toxic thing that's built into people. I don't know if it's like if men or society or how we grew up but it's like if somebody like or maybe it's like goes back like if somebody offends you physically like you just like well they're wrong you don't think you need to do something like I'm such a pacifist I just think like it's such a pacifist that I think violence is like never the answer like it's so it doesn't even come to mind to try to fight back. I think it's so have you ever been like have you ever been smacked? Um no maybe I haven't maybe that's why I don't know the pain.

Has anyone like beat you up on a side? Have you ever been beat up on a soy yard? No part in your face? The night is young.

Let's go get I think I think that's a thing like maybe if you've never been like bullied or like hit on a schoolyard is you it's like the incident happens. It's almost like the Georgia stands at your store. Yeah. It's like it happens and then you spend a lot of time thinking about what you should have done.

You replay it in your mind. You're embarrassed for reasons that to your point it's not their fault. It's not Chris Ross falling out smacked her. Jordan Pools certainly didn't deserve to get hit.

But it's almost like should I have done something after like are people going to think I'm a you know what I'm saying? I always think about that. This is kind of related but unrelated but we were on a hike and just my family and this woman starts walking towards us pretty slow but she's got a dog unleashed and I'm a little bit scared because I hate unleashed dog and it seems like oh what if she bites my daughter and the woman comes up and then she goes your daughter is stepping on this grass here and I live and this was like an affluent woman who lived in it like when she's like I live right there and this grass is not supposed to be stepped on and then she walks away and I'm like just stunned. She walks away and I'm looking around there's all these you need to have your dog leashed signs.

There's all these things where dogs need leashes for years. This happened two years ago. All I've been thinking about is I should have been like hey put your dog on a fucking leash. Did you see that?

I come up with jokes sometimes I'm in the shower. I hope with like this witty little thing. I can't let it go. I bring it up to Alex all the time.

This woman was so pompous. She knew she reminds me of. Oh that actress. Yeah.

In that sketch we just watched today. Yes. And I cannot like that woman because she reminds me so much. So when we were shooting I couldn't even talk for a look at her.

I'm like I'm getting too mad just thinking about it. Oh my goodness. Does that tell you what happened to me in the Halifax pizza place? Do we talk about this last one?

No. Oh yeah wait the vaccine guy? No. Who's the vaccine guy?

Okay go on. Go on. I did some guy come in and say something to you. Hey shoot a million vaccines up your asshole.

This happened in Halifax the last week. So basically we played the show. We're all at a bar. I sneak away.

I go to the pizza place. Pizza Corner. And if you're familiar with Halifax Pizza Corner there's three pizza places. After midnight on a Friday or Saturday it's just packed full of like Dalhousie kids and people hitting the bar.

So I'm standing in line to get my pizza. You know each pizza shop probably has like you know 12 people in line. I make my way to the front. There's a couple people ahead of me like a group of people that are ahead of me.

And I'm next in line. This girl walks up. She's kind of on her phone and sort of nuzzles up to the group that's buying the pizza. So at first I give her the benefit of the debt and I think oh she must be just with this larger group.

Fair enough. You want to get your pizza order and you're with them great. But then I go. Wait a second.

They're not really interacting with each other. I don't think they're together. So I say, Hey are you with the group? Are you with this group ahead?

And she doesn't she pretends to be on her phone. And then I'm like okay she's not answering me. I tap the guy who's paying for his pizza. I go, Hey is this girl with you?

Do you know this girl? And he goes he looks like no I don't know the person. I'm like okay I see what's going on. Hey you clearly bud everybody.

You know there's there's what 10 people in line behind us. You got to go to the back. You got to go. Come on.

She just ignores me. Her friend then shows up and says hey is this your friend here? And she and she's like yeah what's up? She's like she just bud everybody in line.

You're not with these people. You got to go to the back in line. And they're like they look at me like bro. Come on man.

What are you doing? What am I doing? What are you doing? You just budded everybody.

So then I go to the people behind me like a group of five Dalekids. I'm like hey I just want to let you know and everybody behind that these people right here they just bud it everybody. They just walk right to the front. And they're kind of like looking at me.

Everyone's kind of drunk at this point. No really cares. And then I go to the people serving the pizza. I'm like hey just you know these people just bud everybody.

And I need to be served ahead of them. But no way these people are ordering pizza before me. The guys are kind of like okay yeah. And then I turn around to the people behind me.

I'm like who wants pizza? You want pizza? Pizza on me. Everybody's getting pizza as long as I get served ahead of these two worlds right here.

So I'm like all right what do you guys want? And so I end up getting seven slices of pizza for everybody behind me. I'm like you want pizza? You want pizza?

Everyone want drinks? I like this move. I love this. And the girl I'm just like I'm doing this.

I'm just yelling at this point. I was so fucking angry. Because I was like listen I'm okay with you trying to bud. But if you get caught I like the game.

Oh you pretend to do the like I like biting lines. Who doesn't like biting lines? But if you get caught you got to go to the back of the line. And I was like listen I like the attempt.

It's a good try. You got caught. Go to the back of the line. Go.

And so then basically I just bought pizza for the entire store to make sure that it took a very very long time for those people to get served. And then I left. How do they react in this moment? Do they just quietly take your feet?

Looked at me like I was being an asshole and that I was crazy. And they're just like what's your problem? Like what's your problem? What's your problem?

What's your problem? Get the fuck to the back of the line? Well yeah no you're right. But I guess they have to act like they're in so deep at that point.

They have to act like they're crazy. No one can turn a no and do a yes or just change their mind. They can't be like you're right. I got to go back.

I know but they're in too deep at that point. They've already done the phone pretend and all this shit. It's tough. This happened to me by the way recently.

And I'm so glad you had the good end of this where you did the best move buying everyone the pizza. Guess where it happened to me? I'm not sure if I told you this at the rally. So there's this long beer line.

And you know people are kind of button in front of everybody because there's like sometimes it's like is this a line is this just a bunch of people gathering and the rallies kind of a lot of people haven't seen each other long time. It's hard to tell what the line and what just the crowd was. But this man he was kind of tough looking. He looked like Jeremy Renner in the town a little bit.

He had that by shorter guy but he looked like kind of tough. But he's with his his girl and his girl butts right in front of me. And then he notices that I notice and he goes oh I'm getting out of here and he leaves and he says in a very like congenial like funny like well we're busted but I'm gonna just see what all plays out. So I'm almost obligated to say something and it's just killing me from the inside and Alex is bothered by it.

So then when we get to the front and it's her turn to order I just go whoop and butt right in front of and I do an order. But then she's like we were here before or something. She said something to me and I'm like were you? Well it didn't seem like you were and then the guy comes up.

He's like they're a problem here because I'm gonna punch you in the fucking face and he goes from like congenial like who I'm gonna get busted to. I set you up because I knew there'd be a confrontation and I'm just here to crack skulls today. And then this scene just happens and I'm like oh no I was just this was a misunderstanding. She was here before and I totally like sat about down and then all night I was just terrified that this man was going to find me in the crowd and just like give me the knuckle sandwich that he thought I deserved.

So I found a tough friend who was kind of like our Jeremy Renner from the town from high school. Oh yes John and he was my bodyguard that night just and I told him the story and he was just looking for me. He's like tell me if you see him I'm gonna bounce on him and I felt like scared and protected at the same time. Like I almost wanted it to happen but I'm scared if it does it's gonna go way too far.

But yeah anyway I love the way you handled it. It's like a fantasy of mine. I've used this trick before when people are being petty assholes and I love throwing money at the problem to prove that it's not about the money. It's about the principle because it's happening one time.

I was sitting in Waterloo at a coffee culture. I was waiting to be picked up. It was the middle of winter. This is like years ago.

I was waiting to be picked up by the band or something. But I need to kill like 10 minutes and it was like the middle of fucking February. So it's freezing outside. So I'm just sitting in the coffee culture and then the guy comes up and he goes hey you gotta you gotta buy something if you want to sit here.

And I'm like yeah yeah sorry I know it's just freezing outside. I'm gonna get picked up in like five minutes. Hopefully that's okay. I get policy but is it okay?

I'm just like and also it's not busy. There's like nobody in the store. I'm just like and causing a problem just sitting quietly by myself. Sorry man.

Customers only. You gotta you gotta buy something. I'm like yeah literally just fine. Sorry man.

Sorry man. Those are the rules. It's like okay. So then I think I go up.

I find the cheapest like little like thing you can buy. Like you know like those little chocolates or something that are like 35 cents. Yeah I give them a chocolate paper. Yeah and I give them a $10 bill and I said keep the change.

You can have it. And then I'll see you later. That's a good move. You've told that before on the hot.

I didn't want to stop you. But you know what I mean? You can see the discrepancies between the dollar amount. You know if it was $5.

I think you said keep the change you'll fill the animal on the last element. Guys what have you seen any movies? Let's wrap this up. You're in the mood to chat.

Yeah. You're like just like. Let's finish on this. Let's let's finish on this.

I got five more minutes. Let's do it. I've seen any movies. I've watched the beginning of the reen team.

I'm saying that perfectly. I was about to go. I was maybe gonna watch as soon as we got off. I was gonna return to is any good?

I like watching. I love shit like this. No it's it's it's um it's perfectly fine. It picks up when Kobe enters the picture.

It's perfectly fine but it's not like some stellar doll. It's a fucking seat for a movie though. It's like the ultimate group of superheroes lost one game and now the ultimate group of superhero basketball players are trying to win another game. It's like then they win.

It's like how could you care? I think win. It's like yeah we have Michael Jordan's Scottie Pimp and LeBron showed up Kobe and we beat this greasy. Did you get to the coach?

Oh my god. It was great. When you watch this coach K who's a Duke he's like he's been brought into sort of you know obviously get these but he's been Robinson in the movie. Oh and he's just like and he's given the speech to LeBron and Kobe and D-weight come on all these cool NBA players and he's like he's coach K the guy from Duke so he's given the speech but I think by design he's dropping all these F bonds.

He's like see you know in the future when you're hanging out with your fucking grandkids and you're fucking they want to know if you want a fucking gold medal and it's just like coach K. Hey you think they're gonna care about you or the fucking Easter Bunny and it's like but he's got all these lines and he's swearing so much but if you watch that part as like imagine Tim Robinson is this man at that moment it just had me laughing so Hart Mike set me up for like get ready for this part and it lived up to the way he described him. Yeah he just seems so uncomfortable swearing but so watch that. Did you watch the speaking of basketball Docs?

Shane was the one that insisted I watch the Donigee. Did you have a doc about the ref? Untold? I loved it.

I'm not sure if you loved him. I did and just like craft wise it's a really well done talking the way they shoot everything in the TV is like his interview set up was like kind of like a theater behind him. Like yeah so much it was just it's a beautifully made doc and the characters are like super compelling. Very cool.