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And welcome once again to History Tweeps. I am Tim. The topic of our podcast today is the Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders. Murders that occurred at Triple Homicide, which occurred back in 1977 at Camp Scott in May's County, Oklahoma.
It's an unsolved murder, although at least identified it, pretty solid suspect. But as of today, it remains unsolved. The victims were three Girl Scouts between the ages of eight and ten. They were raped and murdered on June 13, 1977.
So we'll get into this gruesome story. But before we do, let me introduce our panel. I'm happy to introduce the very lovely and talented, the legendary. Queen of Mean, Phil Poppin, Penis Love and Sing's very little secret.
Brandi, how are you today Brandi? I'm good. And I've got so much to say about this whole topic that we're covering today. Do you?
I do. I do have a lot to say. As you know, I have been fired up recently about the little penis wrinkle that got basically probation for attempted rape or whatever that was. The guy in Stanford.
So I am so pumped and ready to talk about this topic. I'm sure you're excited for me to talk about it as well. I am. And it's a seriously story.
It's like out of a horror movie or something. A teen slasher movie. But this one is real. It's really happened.
And it's pretty sick stuff. But we're going to get into it. I'm glad you're OK. And let me introduce the third member of our panel, a man of great esteem.
A man really who needs no introduction. But we give him one every week anyway. That is the very honorable Reverend Colonel Charles Bolger with our pop waters to third. Affectionately known as Southern General.
How are you, Colonel? Why does he get reverent today? Why do you go ahead? Why does he get reverent?
And I don't get reverent today. I'm a reverent today. Because you don't have your own church. You don't practice your religion.
You don't walk with Jesus like I do. Well, you don't walk in motherfucker over here. I know who you walk with. You're handing it to devil.
So in your church, Brandon, I don't have my own church. They're not Jim Baker. I'm a reverent, however. But I mean, in your religion, quote unquote.
Yeah, quote unquote. Do you have reverents? Are you doing it at Mormons? No, I was talking about your sameism.
What? I don't know. Do they have reverents in the church of Satan? They have five pretty sisters.
Are you a high priest? Well, I am an ordained reverent person. OK, from now on, I will introduce you as such. Shut up, recognize.
Charles, Colonel. Yes, sir. How are things with you? I thought we could have a brief.
I thought we could have a brief. Things are wonderful with me. To me, the Colonel lives a charm in life for the most. Yes, we know.
I got the only thing I have to worry about is the occasional stalker. But other than that, I can't really say things are going bad. That's good. I do want to come back to one topic from last time when we did the Anise Jones episode, which, by the way, got a lot of downloads, we appreciate that.
Brandy mentioned the story of finding a vagina, a picture of a vagina on my phone. Yes. I would just like to point out that was years ago. Am I correct?
That was a year. That was BC. That was before Clara. Yeah, it's been, well, at least two years.
OK. And would you say, when you met me, I had some different relationships that were not always the best. You had some scurvy ass one night stands all the time. Ratchet horse.
Remember, Enki? I do. I do. And Timmy went out and brought him that on.
Dirty Diana. Dirty Diana. Timmy used to have a prison. I had a drug problem.
It's slight. She was in recovery. There are. But we will agree that I've changed in the last couple of years.
But we agreed to that. Sure. I can see that. OK.
Thank you very much. I'll make you feel better. OK. So now that we've cleared that up, your girlfriends can understand it at what we're saying anyway.
It's American. I understand English. OK. So now that we've cleared that, Ms.
No more. That's the wrong word. But OK. I do want to give a shout out to our sponsors, who sponsored us on Patreon, Alicia and Chip, Cindy Loo, Bridget, and Johara.
We appreciate so much your support. If you would like to support us on Patreon, just go to patreon.com slash HistoryDweeps and you can give as much or as little as you like. Anything helps. So even through the wee bit, we would really appreciate it.
Just a wee bit. If you can just spare a wee bit for us. Nope. Don't do that.
I would also like to give a special shout out to a friend of mine who, my closest and dearest friend who I did not realize that even listened to our podcast. I'll show you her by then. But she actually is very instrumental in the podcast. She helped me out with a lot of the technical issues.
When we first started and she created our logo, she's very talented and very sweet. And that's Sherry from Long Island. So Sherry. Hi Sherry.
Thank you so much for your help. Thank you. She thinks you guys are funny. I don't know why.
Because we are. We are funny people. OK. You're ready to jump into the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders?
Let's jump. Let's jump. You know, we, and Brandy, I just want to touch on what we're going to say. I'm not going to get into it, but you're wrong.
I said a couple things about Mr. French. I did not say anything about Mr. French.
Sebastian Cabot. I was immediately said that was sheep. That was ale. I'm not saying he got drunk.
And molested said sheep. Trust me. I did not have him. Do not defame the dead.
I'm saying. I'm not saying that. Yes. Good.
I'm glad I'm saying sheep and round ale. A person could jump to the conclusion that he might have been. What, Glenn Beck? Let's not do that.
Yes. Let's not. The Smurch. We don't need to besmirch the deceased.
We can besmirch the living. I think we do have to start out with this show though. We don't normally do the show. We don't have to show what to shout out to Brandy and Chris.
Oh God. Let's do that. I'm going to show you both read the script and you're ready to go on this. Oh, I didn't.
But I am ready to go on. No, this is a really interesting story to me. It's a horrible story. I can't take credit for researching it.
I can't take credit for the murders. No, you can't. But I can take credit for the murders. But this was very, it seems so, I mean it's, you know, and one thing that- You're gonna have to make words that string them together.
It doesn't make sense. If you could interrupt them, you'd be not going to talk about it. Jesus Christ, I'm gonna talk about it. It just reminds you of a slasher for me.
Yes. Yes. That's what it reminded me of is I was doing my research now. You've been listening to me and saying just say the same thing.
I mean, I kept thinking Friday to 13th. I kept thinking Friday. Yeah, apparently the director of Friday the 13th or the producer of someone asking if they based some of the episodes on it. He denies it.
He says no. But when we go through the story, it does your, your saying you're right. It does seem like a 70s or 80s or maybe. Okay.
So we're going to talk about the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders. Again, the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders remains unsolved. I was a triple homicide that occurred on the morning or evening of June 12th, morning of June 18th, 1977 at Camp Scott in May's County, Oklahoma. Three, the victims were three girls scouts between the ages of eight and ten.
And if you see their pictures, I'll post them up on our page of this cute little girls. They were raped and murdered in, well, two of them were, they believe were killed inside the 10th, the third one they believed was raped and murdered outside the 10th. And their bodies were left in sleeping bags out near the trail about 150 yards from the 10th. A little bit about Camp Scott.
Camp Scott is located in Locust Grove, Oklahoma. Did you start it? Did I start Camp Scott? No, I did not.
Do I work girls? No, it's not named after you. It's not named after you. No.
Charity, but you had it? No. No. For single mothers.
No. You don't tell me love single mothers. I do a lot of work for single mothers. I do a lot of work for single mothers.
Yes. Camp Scott is located in Locust Grove, Oklahoma. It's 40 miles from Tulsa. It had been up to that point operating for 49 years.
And June 12th, 1977 was opening day for the camp of that summer. The camp was used by Girl Scouts and Brownies as well as the YMCA for camping during the summer. It was a 400 acre camp. And like I said, it's just three miles southeast of Locust Grove, which is near Tulsa, Oklahoma.
It was operated by the Magic Empire Council of Girl Scouts. That sounds like a weird time. I don't like that. It sounds like a cold.
Since 1928, so they had operated it for a long time. It was perfect for boating, hiking, fishing, and camping. Most of the Girl Scouts have come from the Tulsa metropolitan area to attend summer camp. Did you ever attend camp when you were younger at Colonel?
I did. And you know, quick aside, I was in the fifth grade. They partnered us up to go get some firewood. You were a Girl Scout?
No, it was just a summer camp. My partner was Rip Taylor. And why in hell? Now, looking back on this, they gave us hatchets to go out and do that to get it.
I wouldn't back it if they don't do that to that. No, and Rick, my partner, he swung at a tree. The hatchet bounced out and came right into the crease for his knee. His kneecap.
No, this guy had problems with it for the rest of his life. I played baseball with him later. And you know why they've been castrated? Why in hell are you giving a fifth grade of hatchets?
Yeah, it went very bright. I never went to camp. I was in Boy Scouts for a couple weeks. But then, you know, I was kicked out because I was protesting because I was a paramilitary organization.
And you know, I started a protest and then they kicked me out. Boy Scouts? Yeah. I have trouble with some of my not- Some of you what?
Not. Not hard. No, you don't want to get the knots down. No, learning how to get to how to eat is.
Learning how to get to how to get to how to get to how to get to how it comes to handy to me. Why not? I made a, what is it? Tenderfoot.
There was guys like in my group that had been there like a year and never made Tenderfoot. And some people didn't make Tenderfoot. You know, it was like years. But anyway, back to this one.
You weren't even real? We blow? You didn't make it until we blow. I don't know what we blow.
The first level was Tenderfoot. You had to make some knots. I did that, but then I dropped out. I lost interest.
So anyway, camp Scott. It was operated by the Magic Empire Council of Girl Scouts. So that sounded like Wizards or something. It was perfect for boating, fishing, camping.
As I said, most of the girls were from the Tulsa area. On June 12, 1977, it was a first day camp. Around 6 p.m. that evening, a thunderstorm hit and the girls huddled in their camp.
Now, the camp had different areas. They were all named after the different Indian tribes, Native American tribes. I want to say Indians in this sometimes. So just not really correct.
I'll just overlook it. But this was an area in Oklahoma that was inhabited by a lot of Native Americans. And that comes into play a little bit later on. But the camp itself was broken into different areas.
And among one of the areas was called the Kiowa area. And it had 7 tenths plus the counselor's tenth. So every area had so many tenths and then they had a counselor where the girls were at. And then they had a tenth for the counselor.
In this particular area, there was a tent number seven. And in tent number seven, there were three girls. Lori Lee Farmer, H.8 Doris, Denise Miller, H.10, and Michelle Guy's H.9. There were supposed to be a fourth person in the tent.
Every tent was supposed to have four people, but there were some clerical error. And only three girls were assigned to this tent. They were going to, the other girl was mistakenly assigned to a different tent. And they were going to make the switch the following day.
Which tragically, fortunately for her, these murders occurred before she switched over. Now tent number seven in the Kiowa area was set off from the other tent. It was the furthest away from the counselor's tent and from the other tent. So it was out kind of like by itself.
It was on the outer edge of the camp and isolated from the other folks, the other tents. Well, and it was, I don't know if you have this, the tents, where the camps themselves were set up. Each camp had a number of tents in it. That particular camp was the most isolated camp of the camps at that camp.
So they were literally in the most isolated spot in the camp. Yeah, and you're putting it in there in eight, nine, and ten-year-old. Yeah. And a dog's who had seen it said that later on, people when they were investigating this, you know, there were dogs who said, you know, there's no way I would have stayed, you know, in that particular tent because it was so far away.
Anyway, as night fell upon a camp, and we'll post up a kind of a blueprint of the area so you can see on our History Tree page so you can see how the camps were arranged. But anyway, as night fell on the camp, counselors started to make sure to go around and, you know, walk around the campsites, make sure that the girls were okay, and that they were each and they were assigned tents. Counselor in this night was walking around the area. So it then light in the woods that disappeared.
She wrote it off as some kind of prank, so she didn't really investigate it and just went back to bed. At 2 a.m., counselors heard Girl Scouts making noises and went to quiet them. Several of the Girl Scouts told the counselor at the time that a man had looked in their tent and then walked away. Others said they heard someone outside their tent.
Another Girl Scout was her screening mama mama at 2 a.m. She said a man grabbed them as they tried to grab them as she walked to the bathroom. And nobody says, hey, maybe we should. Well, one girl became so hysterical in the woods that she thought she saw a man.
She thought she saw a man. Now the counselors took the girls to go back to sleep. Counselors thought basically the girls were scaring themselves. She's, yeah, because that's what you want to do is just blow off these girls.
Well, and I mean, I never attended camp, but you know, it's stereotypically that these camps kids do tell those stories and try to scare yourself. But the thing is the counselor, we'll get into this a little bit later, actually the counselor was scared and admitted later that she didn't want to check into it because she was a bit frightened herself. The flashlight that was shining, that she saw shining was like a pin light. And they, yeah.
But later when they found the flashlight, it was a large flashlight. One of those plastic ones. With a big C battery. Yeah, big D-batteries.
Yeah, and handle plastic ones. But what had happened, the person who was using that flashlight, presumably the killer, had put paper in it to, oh, so it would shine some bright, only like a pin light would shine out. Because it was very dark. So many counselors tell the girls to go back to sleep.
They didn't look around for the strange man that the girls had told him about. And like I said later, the counselors would admit that they were just really too afraid to look around. So that's how the evening started. You know what surprised me about this, Timmy, listening to it?
And I know you can't be around a bunch of girls, but it's over the home. Everybody's got guns. I mean, it's kind of a gun culture that if you're out in the woods, you're going to have rifles or whatnot. And this was back before people were so sensitive about guns, you know, being around children.
It surprised me that nobody was armed. Yeah. So, Brandy, what happens next? So at 630 on Tuesday, June 13th, Carla Sue Willett, who was a counselor, went to take an early shower.
She wanted to make sure she got all the hot water because, you know, she's a bitch like that. Well, I don't know if you should get early bird gets the worm, I say. Yeah, I know you say. You know, if you want to wear them, right, Carlin?
Well, I have not really hunted worms in the woods. Yeah, I'm not been. You haven't hunted worms, Elmer Fudd? Willy.
There were you doing the night corals and selling them? I have never sold them. We did that when we were kids. When you have worms with, you just have to just hang it.
You just hang it with the rain, wait until it rains. You want to ground his way up, then you ground it. You got to get him fast because they jumped into the hole. I mean, and you get like a whole quart of them and you get like a dollar.
Oh, sure. Right. I get that. I would never say I went out hunting worms.
Maybe gathering. Maybe you just got some worms. You got to find them. But hunting implies that you're out there shooting them with a BB guy.
Yeah, you're not really like Elmer Fudd. I mean, you're like on a ground trying to get worse. Well, when I go down, I don't take a weapon. Do you get your hunger?
I just change the deal down, tackle him and break you. Just carry him back. I think you just charmed him. I do sometimes I do that too.
Yeah, of course. The thing you're ready. Why is her cranky today though? She doesn't like stories where people get murdered.
She likes those, but not when kids get murdered. She walked on the trail and she noticed some things under a large tree. As she got closer, she noticed that they were sleeping bags. Then she saw Doris Denise Milner's nude body.
At that time, Carla couldn't see the other two dead bodies. They were still zipped up in the sleeping bags and they were naked from the waist down. This is like on the trail about 150 yards from the, or about 150 feet from the tent. The thing is, we mentioned how far away the other ones, the counselors tent with 87 yards away from the tent number seven.
I mean, almost a football field away from where these little girls were. Bullshit. That's a long distance in the dark. Wow, they should have never been that far away from them.
Well, they've been doing this for years. And that's, you know, no, no, no, no. I mean, still, because one counselor was saying, you know, she was afraid it was a wild animal and I thought, well, should you come wild animals? I thought, well, should you come wild animals out there?
Why are you so? Yeah, but you remember these girls and counselors. They're probably all from Tulsa. So, who are you at the city?
So, by seven thirty, law enforcement was there and they had to start at their investigation. A law enforcement officer who lived nearby was the first to the scene. He checked the other two sleeping bags and discovered the bodies. At eight thirty in the morning, May's County District Attorney Sidney Wise said all three of the victims had died from blood trauma to the back of the head of strangulation.
It's just been a horrible scene. These are the little girls. The victims were Doris Milner, age eight, Lori Farmer, age eight, and Michelle Goose, age ten. This had been Doris Milner's first experience at camp.
She had actually begged her mom not to send her. She was a little African American girl, really cute. The girls were going to be at camp for two weeks. Finally, her parents convinced her to go and promise to come get her if she didn't like it.
Prior to the murder, she had already written a letter to her parents telling them to come get her. This thing had to guilt her parents and that's a fell, force on her to go and then on the very first night. Oh, the mother, I've seen an interview with the mother and she just said, it's on me. Yeah, and we'll get into this later.
No, it's not on her. But there was an option between this girl and two different camps. The girl wanted to go to another camp and the mother made it go to this one. Yeah, and these parents were treated awful during this experience.
We'll talk about that as we go along. Well, let's see. So, at 10 AM, Camp Scott was evacuated. They didn't tell the campers why the campsite was being closed after just the one night of camping.
Buses arrived, took the remaining girl scouts to Tulsa where they were reunited with their families. Camp Scott closed for good on that day after nearly 50 years. Yeah, it never reopened. Just what we're here talking about because I was watching documentary on this.
They interviewed the parents and one of the parents, they would only tell one of the parents. Wait, I'm going to stop you. Is this something that I'm going to get done? No, I'm not going to.
They told one of the parents that he withholds their father. They told one of the parents that they told one of the parents that it was just an accident. And they said, you know, what happened? Was she okay?
You just need to come. There's been an accident. So, she didn't find out until they got there that they had to get it and murdered. Another parent, he found out that he was actually the third person that was buying.
Yeah, that was bullshit there. That they had called their internals company first, they had called their attorney first, and then finally notified the parents. So, these parents were, you know, you send your child away to camp thinking that they're going to be safe. And one day into it, you get to call that.
Like I said, the one was an accident. There was an accident. She went and told anything until she got there and saw her daughter bludgeon to death. Well, and someone didn't even know if there was dead or alive until the bus came back from the kids.
Right, they were at some of the parents who started when word got out that some of the kids were murdered. When they put them on buses, the parents didn't know until the bus was arrived where their children were alive or not. It was poor, but handled poorly. So, the investigation at the scene quickly revealed that all of the girls had links of cord around their necks.
They had been gagged and bound with two-inch wide black electrical tape. All of the victims have been sexually molested. An officer found their clothes a few feet from their bodies. The killer or killers carried the bodies approximately 100 to 150 yards from their tent and then just piled these girls underneath a big tree.
At the scene, detectives found a large roll of black duct tape and a red and white nine-volt flashlight near the bodies. The lens of the flashlight, oh, well, there it is. The lens of the flashlight was partially covered, collout only a mere pencil of light through. So, we already went through that once.
Yes, because you are a drink killer. Inside the death tent, Jesus, on a wooden platform floor, detectives found the bloody footprint of a waffle type jungle boots. I don't know what that means, but a jungle boot is. The inside of the tent, I saw pictures of it.
There was a lot of blood splatter, and apparently, there was a lot of blood. You're going to get into the next thing on this one. But obviously, there was a lot of blood, because two of the children were murdered inside the tent. It appeared too large to be one of the victims' prints.
It also appeared the killer tried to clean up the scene using a towel, because they found a bloody towel inside one of the sleeping bags. So it was all smeared all over the place. The wood floor was removed and sent to the crime lab for analysis. Of course, they found a lot of blood near the beds of the two girls.
The other girl could have been strangled to death after being pulled from the tent. Shortly after discovery of the bodies of the Girl Scouts governor David Boren ordered a task force of Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents and highway troopers to assist the Mayes County authorities in the investigation. Governor Boren also arranged the use of three bloodhounds from Pennsylvania to help track down the killer killers of these three little Girl Scouts. The local press referred to them as Wonder Dogs.
The day after a slang, a man is arrested seven miles from Camp Scott. He was living in his car there, mine in his business, and he was questioned by police and then released. Police announced to the press that several fingerprints were obtained. The fingerprints were found on the flashlight left at the scene.
And the bodies of the victims and on the duct tape. The fingerprints would never be a match to a suspect. It was later determined the prints were too smeared to be used as evidence. Long and searched for a murder weapon and other possible evidence.
During the search, officers found a role of duct tape and a rope. A hair was found on the duct tape and police believed it belonged to the killer. The evidence matched the items found on the three little Girl Scouts. Several rocks, a tire tool, and a crowbar were discovered at the ranch, but the items were not connected with the slayings.
Other later, the police believed the crowbar was what was used for the murders. But the items were not connected with the slayings. Yeah, during investigation, they had a lot of false leads. Well, but then it says police believed the crowbar was used as a murder weapon.
Yeah, a crowbar, not that particular one. This is the crowbar. So it was a crowbar, but it was not that crowbar. Correct.
Detectives found a footprint that matched the print at the death tent at Camp Scott. Three days after the brutal slaying, the hunt for evidence moved less than a mile west to the 110 acre range of 58 year old Jack Schroff. Yeah, this guy gets a bad deep rap. The hunt moved because the bloodhounds led the lama to this home in his pond.
Mr. Schroff had reported that his home had been broken into a couple days before the murders. He submitted to a lie detector test and passed and was dismissed as a suspect. But where gets out in the press that Jack Schroff has been interviewed, an article appears in the local paper that Jack Schroff's photos and the word, with Jack Schroff's photo and the word, Slayer in bold type.
Schroff had to be hospitalized because he started receiving very threatening phone calls and letters. Yeah, he was getting death threats from the community. Are they? They thought he was the one.
Police began to interview counselors and anyone associated with Camp Scott. During the investigation, Camp Director Barbara Day said she knew the camp had received several threatening notes. Yeah. Less than two months before the murders, during an onsite training session, a camp counselor discovered that her belongings had been ransacked and somebody stole her donuts.
Why feel her fucking pain? Somebody stole her fucking donuts? I had some more pop tarts stolen. Are you kidding?
I'm not kidding. The pop tarts even struck again. Thank you for turning. Let me in empty goddamn box.
Hold on, you're telling me they took all the pop tarts again. Yeah. How many pop tarts was in there? Everyone, many, like one or two.
What type were they? Cherry. Was that when I was on vacation? So I'm not even listening.
Was that suspect in it? No, that was like, it was like that when I came in from a long weekend. Oh, so was this past weekend? No, shit.
That's fucked up. It was fucked up, people fuckers. The pop tarts there. You don't want it to pop tarts feeling.
Not worse than pop tarts feeling. It's still in a horse. It's the scum on the bottom of a gnat's foot. Well, inside the scene.
So at least this guy, probably. At least this guy. So inside the donut box. At least she got something from this guy because he left her a little nasty hand written note.
What did the letters say? The writer of the note vowed to murder three campers. Because summer camps are rife with ghost stories. The note was treated as a prank.
Nobody's fucking laughing now. Jesus. So this guy gave them every, I'm going to kill someone. I'm going to kill three of them.
Hey, hey. You know what? Somebody, first of all, you should be on DEF CON 5. Once the donuts get stolen.
You're on high alert. You're on high alert. Somebody should have been sitting around with a shotgun. Oh, hell yeah.
You don't. You don't. Some old man in the girls in a hat. Yeah.
Just been hanging out. The camp director never considered the notes or the burglaries to be serious and threw it away. So I'm thinking that this means that whoever's stealing the pop tarts is going to kill me. If you're being...
I'm against that. Well, if you show up dead, then we'll connect the box. Well, if you show up dead every morning. They're going to give it every morning.
They're going to leave you no telling you they're going to kill you. They just took your pop tarts. That's kind of fucked up. We could sell before the murders attend.
It had been slashed with a knife. Again, it was written off as a child prank. So, hey, this is a weird. This is not a damn movie.
You know what? And I bet the council is... I don't know if you get there. When they found the bodies, the council was all saying, let's split up and see who did it.
Well, now. And they overlooked a man in the ski lab. Looking around at the ski lab. Let's hide behind all these things.
And the hiding soles back here. Yeah. Let's see. When is eyeglasses and glasses cases were found throughout the camp?
Yeah. This will come into play later on. Apparently he was... You know what?
It's right here. I'm going to kill it. At least theorized that that was the thief was trying on different glasses to find a prescription with that fitting. But you know, if you have something...
Don't know that's the thing that's the one back on Motherfucker. Motherfucker's line is back. Why? Why?
Because it's fucked up. You're going out to commit a serial murder, right? But you don't got your glasses? Yeah.
What do you think you would get your prescription refill before you go out? Because you need to see who you're killing. Yeah. You're going out.
I mean, you can't just go around slashing in the dark like Stevie Wonder would again soon. I think you can. You can. I guess.
You're good, but it's not as efficient. Yeah. You waste a lot of time. The Task Force polygraph many suspects in all past.
Then Woodward, a ranger and custodian at Camp Scott was polygraphy past. On June 24th, local county and state lawman launched a massive air and ground search. What are we going to do for them? What are they going to look for?
How do you guys feel about polygraph tests? Well, they work for Morrie. I know they work for Morrie. I mean, we're about Steve Wokosha.
But how do you feel about it? I don't believe it in myself. I don't believe it there. 100%.
No, I don't think there are 100%. I think that they're a good indicator. And I think that, you know, if somebody doesn't pass it, certainly something that you need to look at. But we do a lot more now just because it passes.
I don't know. Well, but you have to remember that there are a lot more advanced now. You know, polygraphs now, they're measuring a lot of shit. They're better than they were in 1977.
Absolutely. You're a dad who's in law enforcement. Does he? Is he pretty confident in all polygraphs?
I don't know. I don't know that I've ever brought the topic up with you. I have to ask. I have beat them in the past.
I know you have. As long as you believe it. That's how you beat them. Yeah.
All you do is just convince yourself. That's the truth. United Press International. But we have problems with other people.
We have a big penis though. You have problems with others. If you haven't. I don't have problems convincing people.
It's just I have a little bit of problem when they want proof. Exceed. Continue, Brandy. The colonel will grow and not show it.
I understand. United Press International was so very helpful. They reported authorities found the murder weapon. They said it was a crowbar and police would be able to obtain several good fingerprints from the weapon.
The police would neither confirm nor deny this report. Later they were only able to find one good print and the others were smudged. Rumors began to circulate that a local Cherokee medicine man had placed a curse on the blood house. I do believe in those.
Okay. So this wasn't a rumor. He said it out loud in front of the police. There's this hole in addition to this horrible horrific murder that took place and this man on its own way.
Because it's a largely Native American population, were they on Indian land? They were on old Indian land. They were on old Indian and that part of it was the serial killer thing was old Indian burial grounds. Yeah, secretly.
Always Indian land. So this has this whole mystique of medicine man and you know migration of the soul and the guy turning into an animal, the killer turning. I mean it's all this paranormal stuff that's going on on the side of this but you know I just regarded most of that for the story because I think it's nonsense but continue grandi. Continue on.
So this medicine man put a curse on the blood house and on June 24th one of the lead dogs did die of dehydration. Fuck get the fucking dogs done to drain. You know this thing and these dogs are caught by 15 grand each. Oh at least yeah.
I mean they were important. Well they mean they're bringing them from Pennsylvania. What kind of motherfucker but this one I can't get though. Why did he put the curse on the dogs?
They felt that they were going to pin this on an Native American. Right. And you know it's sort of like the making of the murderer thing. They thought that the police was going to play an evidence.
I mean it becomes a whole battle between the locals. Probably something I'll get into. Yeah but I think Chuck will get into it. Yeah.
So yeah they didn't give the dogs anymore. Dog died of dehydration. Long and wouldn't say how they linked their investigation to a prime suspect but they started looking for a convicted rapist in the area named Jean Leroy Hart. Now Jean Leroy was a native American born as you could probably tell from his name.
He was a young man and raised less than three miles from the camp. He was a full blooded Cherokee. He was a star athlete in high school and well known in the community. He was also convicted on August 14th 1966 on two counts of first degree rape and kidnapping.
Colonel will get into the details of that. On March 16th 1969 Hart was paroled from Granite State Penitentiary. So I'm sorry. Two counts of first degree rape and kidnapping.
And it was very good for you three fucking years. Yeah. Three fucking years. And it wasn't well I shouldn't say it wasn't just rape.
I mean it was. But I heard I wanted to I saw one of the victims talking. It was not a victim. It was not a victim.
She said and this was this was she said he raped me. She was very you know kind of in a with adult effect you know he raped me. And then the second time he sodomized me I begged him not to I beg it was like she could deal with the rape but the dirty flop please don't you know whatever you do. And he did that too.
I mean he didn't get charged with that one just a straight rape. This is really not that important. And no it was just weird how she only seemed to be upset talking about it when she was talking about being sodomized. She liked the rape she kind of accepted but the sodomy was going to step too far.
And Chuck's going to get into this a little bit later movie tell of this other but it's really pretty gross what he did to these women were pregnant. He's going to get these women. But three years. Yes.
And so as a country I'm going to be Chuck for a minute. Okay. So as a country we have not evolved in this since 1977. Yeah you're right.
That's what you that's what this is. Yeah. It's not easy. You're right.
Yeah we have not evolved at all three years we got probation we got three months we got what the fuck. Right. You got to pretend what you think about rape. And let me tell you know.
The only thing that's different is that okay Logan my son was held up at gunpoint. Okay. Now it's as he said Logan's a peculiar kid and the judge said well you must have been horrified and terrified and he said well you know it's a little unnerving having a gunpoint at that. But now here's the thing it was not traumatic for Logan to go to court to testify against these men who got caught.
There was no real trauma involved in that. So what happens so many times in these rape cases is that they don't want to put the women through it again by going through court. So they're plea bargain on to different things. And the sentences get greatly lowered because they use that leverage because the women they know that the women don't want to relive this in the courtroom.
Whereas if you get shot even I mean robbed whatever it's not a great thing but it's not going to be life altering. It's not going to be a thing where oh my god it's just you know it's happening to me again. But this is why stuff doesn't get reported. Let me tell you something.
I was sexually assaulted in college by a friend of mine and it was awful and I didn't tell anybody and I didn't say anything and my life went off the fucking rails for a long time. I never told my parents. I never did anything. And one of the reasons I never told my parents was because all I could think of was my parents are going to find out that I was drinking in college and I was doing all this other stuff in college and I don't want to put my parents knowing that I was partying in college because who's going to believe me?
Who's going to believe that this happened to me? So I said nothing. I ruined my relationship with my boyfriend. I ruined my relationship with friends.
I shut the fuck down. And then you look at it. And I don't want people. And I don't want people.
And I think that's one of the things that we need to work on. I don't want women to have to do that. But we don't go to trial because I can't have my life looked at under a microscope like I deserve that to have that happen to me or that anybody deserves to have that happen to them. It's bullshit.