Vamps with Caroline Framke

It's so annoying. You have to keep learning to use new crap that doesn't actually do anything better than the old crap, which is incompatible with the new crap. It's also that you can have blogs and watch fake teenagers and real housewives and it's all having too fast and I'm tired. I'm just sick and tired of it all.

It's okay. You don't have to do the podcast. That's one of my least favorite parts of the movie. Really?

Yeah. Anytime the movie is about blogs, you're complaining about blogs. I'm like, all right. Because you're Genocore.

You're honest. I like that. It's not that I like blogs, although I have no beef with blogs. No, it's just the only time where I'm like, oh, it's 2012 or the time when I'm most like, oh, it's 2012.

Sure. Well, because like, I'm like, oh, little did she know what modern horrors are waited. Like, I don't think she's complaining about it. I'm like, oh, no, those things are pretty good.

This movie is a weird period. Yes. Now. Yeah.

It is carbon data very much to the exact moment. Yeah. I was even a script that she wrote in 2005. But the most horrifying thing was in the situations book launch party.

That didn't get you. Oh, I forgot about that. I didn't clock that one. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you seem in an irritated mood. Did you struggle with this movie?

Ben turned off the AC. It completely shifted my vibe. It is insane. I'm not joking.

Because they're really I really fucking. You were in a good mood. And now you are hostile. Now you're ready to rant about jewelry.

It's so it's so vital to me to me. It's it really is. I can't do that. We just we cannot do this for two hours.

This is not an option. I just I love air conditioning so much. And when I say this, I'm gesturing to the it's one of those things where I'd anger lines. Well, well, you know what?

I'm trying to fit him into every episode. So president roll. I'm a little rocky was it is Simms had a mood right now. What is in the completely fine mood.

And then within three seconds, he was on the brink of broken. I mean, what if when Harrison for a thunderbolt Ross was getting mad, right? You know, in that movie where this you might notice a scene or two of him going, like, right? Then he takes a stand.

And he was like, turn the thermostat down. And the guest press president is going, OK, I can't record my podcast. And let's see. And then finally the leader is like, he turns the AC off or turns the heat up.

The leader just fucking writes my new prescription. That's all his plan. The worst thing about that movie is the leader. They're lying to see here.

I thought that the most relevant film for me to see this week for this episode would be sinners. But no, apparently I need to see thunderbolt. I thought yes, but I guess. OK, and then also to be part of the international discourse.

Yes, exactly. But I was like, oh, vampire film, I should see the vampire film before we talk about the vampire film. And then I saw it and it was kind of a mistake because it fucking ripped. And then it was like a thing about.

Yeah, sure. And then it then again, I already watched it again this morning to be clear. I like that a lot, but they are different. I want to say that wild mood swing.

My whole thing with vamps. And I'm sure we're. Right. The headline here.

It would be funny if my whole thing with vamps is I just think Red Hulk is. We didn't talk this much. Is the first what's the nine minute movie, the first half hour. I'm like, right, the vampires are in the modern world and they don't.

They have a blackberry or whatever. And then after after about half an hour. Yeah. The T-Mobile sidekick is a little bit more than a blackberry.

Let's get it straight. There was a moment in my life. I thought about getting a sidekick. I think before I was like, I'm just going to get an iPhone.

That moment was Gossip Girl. Gossip Girl had a black world or a sidekick. Gilmore Girls has a sidekick episode, which is one of the most naked like T-Mobile has paid for one episode of your show. Because they're not making me want to get a sidekick.

Did you have no key engaged? Did you ever engage? I never engaged as much as the idea of my telephone calls or my games in one's beautiful, perfect user friendly package. Those things don't clash at all.

You want me to come in long form, gaming? What a thing that's also going to keep dinging. No, after a little while, I was like, I think I'm kind of into these characters. I think I'm a little sold on this movie to my wild surprise.

I think the first 30 minutes, you're just like, yeah, okay, I get it. It's just like kind of clever, but whatever. And then I think the remaining hour of the movie is kind of impressively well plotted. I think you're like, fuck, this thing actually is a good narrative.

And the characters are all cast. Great cast. No money. That is what I thought you were going to say.

The real thing that is true is you watch it and you're like, it is impressive that she made it as good as she did, considering that it's one of those films where you can feel the lack of time. You can feel every single background, like disappearing two inches out of frame. That is like one of the clearest times of my career of budget filmmaking. I move the camera.

If you move it an inch, this entire environment is going to fall apart. Yeah, like that stuff farther me more than actually the special effects being janky. I think that worked. She is born then.

I'm like, she is so close to figuring out how to execute the special effects on like a early timber level, where it's like, oh, the jankiness is part of the charm, it's stylized in a comedic way. It feels like she's still 5% short of the budget to being able to execute that properly. Like everything's just a little under what should be in a way that makes this movie very bittersweet to watch. Because you're just like, God, if they could have just given her like 20% more to work with, time, money, what have you, you're like, this would have been, if not received properly as like a commercial comeback film, it would be a movie or series could end up with a lot more triumphant.

Bittersweet is definitely, I feel like the word especially, I'm, we'll get to it. The end is so bittersweet. I cried both times I watched this film this week. It's fine.

The end is very, very emotionally affecting and like beautifully built to and earned. And yet in that final second, you're like, God damn it, fuck this effect sucks. This emotional moment relies on, I mean, I grew up on Buffy and I've seen worse. Like, you know, so that didn't bother me as much as I should have been.

Also, I was thinking about it not to come in here and be like, here's the TV critic ready to relate to television. Here we go. If she had been three years later with us, this would have been Netflix show. I know.

And I don't want to say that, you know, not derogatory. I mean, like it could have been, it's a very, the world is defined, the characters are good. This movie kind of got made at the exact wrong moment. Yeah.

And like, what if this is the movie, she gets the, well, how much of this movie cost? I guess we don't know. It might be in the dossier, but like, what if she got the 20 to $30 million she got for her last movie for this movie? Yes.

Right. Just like more than the, my guess is less than $10 million she got for this movie. I don't know. The quote in the dossier is 10.

Yes. Yes. The quote in the dossier is 10. Yes.

It feels like this movie should cost 20. You're like, or just, yes, I'm right. Even 24. What made a difference?

Anything would make a difference. Anything would make a difference. It feels like if she had waited two years Amazon either would have given her $30 million to make it as a movie. When they were in their sort of TED hope led, we're bringing back the forgotten odors and giving them blank tracks phase or Netflix would have done it as a series.

And either way she would have had the support she needed. It would have been depressing that that's how it got made. But like this movie is in a crux point of like the high concept, larger budget studio comedy has kind of died and things have not shifted over to streaming. Yeah.

I mean, when I was watching again this morning, I watched it alone the first time the second time I remember it was around and were the effects especially towards the end. I was like, there's something so specific that reminds me of or something that it's trying to be. And she was like, oh, step becomes her. I was like, that's it.

Yeah. It's close. But those effects are practical. They're different.

They had more money, but there is such, you know, we'll get into all that was the vampire thing. I love it. That's how there is essentially a vampire. Here's the whole thing with the engage.

The thing they fucking. This is what I forgot about this. God. And then just to, you know, when you think this, you think high end video gaming, right?

When you see that, uh, it starts fluttering. Can I get this? Oh, you do you know, know the engaged? I figured you were just okay.

Oh, no, I was just like, we are going to make our own game boy. And they were like, we will make the world's coolest cell phone and the game boy killer. They thought they were going to like dominate two industries simultaneously. I feel like where the buttons are and that's just now.

Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of stressful things about it. Here's the most stressful to change cartridges for your games. You had to open the phone and take out the whole battery because they forgot like, oh, right.

Like the cartridges go behind the box. They were sort of using like card logic of like, well, you don't change that very often. It was like, which was one of the most classic examples of like, you know, what year was that? A 1000 and three.

Wow. That late. That late. It was a competitor to the game boy.

I was going to say, when was the game boy, like that's not replacing the game boy. The advance. I would have had a similar was going wide mode. Oh, I see.

I never had the advance. Right. Again, when you look at this screen, does that screen say wide to you? Doesn't say wide to me.

No, this game. This game was great. It has the screen of like an original game boy that looks like a postage stamp in a wider handle. Can you show Caroline a photo of the game boy advance for comparison?

Yeah, I'm sure you know the game. Because I always have this twice and then I've been unfamiliar both times. The screen are better. And also you will see there was a clean one of those things.

Oh, okay. Oh, gaming company made that like a Nintendo actually. It has three. Okay.

No, I have a place to put games. Yeah, the game went into the top problems in that it was not backlit. It was dark as hell because they wanted to say battery power and they realized that was just sort of not going to work anymore. Right.

You had to get the accessory. I remember I had a little light. You snap it on. Yeah.

There was like third party companies would make little like book lights that would go into the port you would use for like linked gameplay. I believe you're correct. Yeah. See, I just feel like my hands went going that way.

It's not natural. The game boy, did you ever have those games like when you were really little and your parents were trying to keep you occupied in a restaurant or like you press the. They looked like a D games. No, not electronic.

They look like fish tanks. Yes. Yeah. But you remember the Tiger LCD games that were just sort of like yeah, there's like little, you know, the whole screen was just bits that could light up essentially with pixels, like battle toads or whatever.

I guess that a Google I introduced the podcast. I'm not caroling to see this as well. Yes. This is important.

Battle toads was like something like that. What if I ripped off turtles, usually into turtles? Okay. David, open one tab that's Tiger Electronics LCD game, another tab that's battle toads so we can write this is going to check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin. It's a podcast about filmography. David's fast again. Thank God.

It's definitely been a massive success where they are on their careers and are given a series of blank checks, make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby, this has been a mini series of on the films of Amy Heckerling. It has.

We are sadly now discussing her final film two dates for now, 2012s. I suppose she could make another one. She's how old 70 years old it's not impossible to move. She speaks of wanting to make more movies.

But yes, and these final two films are very much anti bling. They are movies where you're feeling the tension of the checks being pulled back. Someone write or a check. Right?

And unlike I can ever be your woman or you're like this movie. It's stuck in a perpetual fit of gain. Yeah, I'm not one. You got I watched earlier this week, but it did make me feel like him.

You did watch it. Yeah, a little like, you feel a little nauseous. A little like motion sick. This has the bittersweet thing where you watch it and you're like, fuck, this should be one of her masterpieces.

You can kind of see it pretty clearly. Interesting. I guess today, who has done several power moves that we're going to get into since entering the studio. It's the great Caroline Frankie.

First time in far too long. It needs to be said. Six years. Caroline, here is an LCD game.

Oh, you remember these. I do. And you have these guys. Oh, yeah.

I really do not know the technical names of any of these. I think that's the image that basically you could move over. Little bits of it would light up depending on where you want it to be. It was kind of the electronic version of the water ring gaming.

It was that primitive. Do you remember the battle toads? Because I feel like the battle toads are pretty bend coded. I mean, that's a really good game.

Yes, it's very hard. Are they toads that battle? It's truly just them ripping off. The cool guys, they sunglasses, their names are rash, zit.

Right. I think we've talked about this before because I remember us going through their gross names. I'll look them up. Their names, of course, are, come on now.

They have to defeat the dark queen. We know that. I feel like they fight. Rash, zits with a Z, two Z's and pimple.

That was cool. It's like, boys like gross things and mutated animals that are absorbing the vibes of other cultures. I think they fought pigs. They're pigs in natural enmue frogs.

People could have pigs a lot. Like Minecraft and Angry Birds both go, we got to take down the pigs. I think they're quite nice and smart. I would say the Minecraft movie using the piglins is actually a swerve.

Those are not the traditional Minecraft villains. They were introduced a little later. Plus for one second because we're in a cult. What's up with Rita?

The fucking dinner rescheduled. He was doing with an urgency that is not her usual behavior unless there's a helper. No, twice in a row. The Griffin's grandmother is so old that any phone call, I think, understandably.

What's my grandma's one? My grandma's one. Right. Yes.

We can keep that in now. Sure. She's a background character on the show. Absolutely.

Yeah. Anyway, big announcement. I will be getting dinner with her sometime. Next week.

Well, it's now in flux. I've now kicked up the board. Where does she like to go? Of course you don't have to tell me where we can be put out.

But does she have a spot? Yes. She lives on the Upper East Side. Yes.

And she is of an advanced age. And her place is less than a block and half of which there are a couple. I wish I had a place. I mean, I do obviously have restaurants that go to or whatever.

The diner. You were just talking about your place. No, but imagine the level of like, you know, more like I walk in and like David's table. You want to get cheers kind of like, I mean, we were just talking.

The only place I have that is my local bagel place where they do know my name. I have that with an Italian restaurant in Proxima. I know you do. I love you.

I talk about it all the time because it truly took a lot of work and a lot of money together. I'm not going to name it because we're, but it's a restaurant we were just talking about where they do know my order now. That's pretty cool. That's nice.

And I'm not going to name it because it's a bit of a hot spot and it is one of a place where I get recognized by Blinky's most consistently. David Buster's correct. There we go. There we go.

There's what like atomic wings nuclear level. And I went to David Buster's Caroline and I went to David Buster's. I know you have Caroline been doing very griff coated ex- sleep training. Oh, there's sleep training.

I was not the case before, but he was out in the world. He was like, I'm stacking like five things. They're going to a little lazy now. They get the rest of the bed.

They're trained to sleep. So he had like an extra hour and a half. I had a weird gap. He just goes.

He was on the hard ice. Oh, yeah. There's like a hard ice event. It was hard ice.

It was hard ice. I'm passing future gas. Great. I'm really enjoyed.

Yeah. And so I just wish there were like an arcade or something. I was like, David, there's a David Buster's. Well, but that is the weird thing that I expressed that thought.

I thought I had not thought was in that brain. And I never been. You never been. And we wandered in there.

I would say that the midday David Buster wasn't really ready to help us. I walked in there and someone was like, and here's where you get your card and here's everything works. I like about David Buster's. You have to carry your own ass.

We did not know that. We walked in. I was like, there is no one here. There were maybe three groups of two children who were.

This is what makes Dean be different. I'm not with Grace. They're not going to hold your fucking hand. This place isn't for babies.

He's wandering around for her. I'm going to try to find anyone. We get the cards. We download the app.

we download the app whatever they look up and there's like a giant fucking yeah like here but it's also there are eight thousand giant flashing something there's a lot of flashing things there's a planet away that I enjoyed but it was the wrong thing no the thing we did that I regret no one was there no is that I was like we both were kind of like well we should play one of the gun game the only thing that regret was leaving was leaving there still be there still be there uh and we're like you know we're looking at your house at the dead sitting here oh god it's also intense and then so there was a tomb raider one and I was like okay tomb raider's kind of a little slightly more and we start playing it and then they're like I never attacked by wolves wolves wolves so it's just Carolyn's a dog odor shooting so many dogs essentially and I'm like oh I killed him it was like why no like truly almost crying I'm like I'm an insane dog right now she's not I am you worry about it was also overwhelming just because they were trying to get us they were jumping you know that's what you're right on a swivel those I can't like that was never I didn't go to many of your kids we talked about how we went to our kids as a teen I didn't really do that and definitely if I did my game was not shooting I feel like it was you know I smoked him on basketball say that much and Sims is solidly taller than me so it's all that this is cool this is cool I like this is cool and I like this is good lore uh it was it was a good time and then we have on bowling since we were like okay casting around for what are other things I did before I could drink yeah you know like teen activities yeah so that sort of stuff together and didn't invite me what is is there a third is there a third thing in the whole eternity well for me and I feel like Ben will get a real good idea well I did actually get me your peers like a month ago randomly after I got a great haircut and I was like I think I'm fucking gonna live forever so I'm like oh my god you were doing bamp up I was feeling bamped up I did not think it through I'll tell you that much and I got like the upper thing and then they were like you're gonna need a sleep pillow and I was like what I'm gonna need a pillow if I did not get the pillow it's like a donut if you look up like you're just not I get it to stop it there's some weird peers and pillows it looks like other stuff um but I'm a I sleep on my back so it's not that big an issue but it was like I have to think about things and I was not just painting but yeah I did get my ears peers I'll get the other one peers if you want to do that but I do feel like the thing I would my whole eternity in terms of teen activities it would either be a mall or a diner because I grew up in Jersey hell yeah a diner well and we've been to many a diner well not a late night diner I didn't go to breakfast I did breakfast at night I get no I get that very teen we got to end up at Denny's or whatever because we can't go to a bar right the one like 24 hour place in my town besides for I don't think the diner was 24 hours in my immediate town was a 24 hour combination Baskin Robbins so you can stay up eat my screen feel sick where would you go Ben if Caroline successfully convinces David to get an ear piercing and then go to a 24 hour chain restaurant afterwards that feels like he's then stepping in on your territory he should do with you well but I'm really I'm really taking a nervous encroaching the whole thing um you're not doing anything wrong the problem is if Ben or I suggested these activities what do you guys talk about you're insane I never do that a lot of people say a lot of things about me that's all sick but Fran and I were briefly gonna get crazy our nipples peers for the dragon tattoo episode we're gonna go full um lisabeth right but then we you know whatever we didn't get our ass again like that was gonna be called that was what have been pretty funny maybe you wouldn't want the ace to go to fucking else that's in your chest i think i'd want it more where we go is it well to answer your question what do you do your diner or yeah sure what was your yeah i mean pretty much anywhere where you can loiter in the middle of the park you loiter yeah yeah teenage Ben yeah loitering y'all prime loiter yeah reading a big leatherbound book you know park playgrounds paulay corner playgrounds but even just gas station parking lot you know maybe i could go to the exact you go to the convenience store those are open 24 hours we had a 24 hour diner near my tower i grew up called we would go tick tock oh classic yeah yeah perfect oh i see it here i feel like um you know in keeping with sort of keeping with this episode i feel like i have as i have aged i'm looking back at like what did i like to do before my default was going out to a restaurant or going to a bar like other activities i'm sure there are you know and i feel like i'm doing you have to find those other things right we do we do need these things you and i've done these things in like the snack middle of the day yeah because that's when kind of when i'm doing people there and that's when you're doing stuff but i do feel like you know doing that stuff later at night but i would not be that's where you could go i would often do it in the day as a team i feel like right it was kind of how do i feel this weekend day and yeah i'll move these but if you're moving these video games going to the park the park is not like a charm at the park i don't know when i was 14 my guess is i was sort of like i you're your grimey london park so it said i would go to roans which was a bowling alley and an arcade and that is a very very cherished spot in my childhood and it had a bar and i could order food at the bar and they had something called a combo platter for five pounds it was like chicken fingers fries and onion rings all one big plate and this is all the food groups we covered the vegetables uh starch protein the full pyramid yeah by the way i did briefly consider um punishing you for dangling clueless in front of me by um bringing back um oh i didn't know you grew up in england blog i didn't understand that i was too complicated no i know i know i know i know it's like i know it's been retired and i was like i'm gonna unretire it forcibly and then i watched um i can never be a woman i was like if there were any episode to do it on that be the ones that never mind fuck it's fucking shit it's a heavy Brit uh i don't think it's funny i think i had a meme more i was like i just want to see him squirm and i was like let's not do that that you even told me david's birthday that you wanted my help doing a bit to torture and then i thought about like how it would actually look like in the conversation i'd have with you to make that happen i was like you know what that thing should have been for i should never be your woman it should have been arguing that david grew up in california sure being like no no you're just like that was well said yes no sunny so sunny the sun remember you were surrounded by people with perfect california accents and the perfect is the right oh hello i'm from san Diego well i just got back from the beach david mitchell right is the one who's like i'm not doing it like it's not you don't want to hear what that is yeah okay i want to i want to do i want to step back into a little table saying here because he will look at this but all this conversation by the way was relevant because this is a movie about like do you want to stay young forever right what is it to be eternally a certain age right caroline you had two blockbuster appearances on this podcast i'm covering two huge movies show girls a big episode a big film i feel like i'm really glad i didn't think that one i didn't overthink that one because the second i left i was like i was a big movie this is what you said at david's birthday you said like i never would get an episode like that today and i didn't even realize how big it was until i left i'm like caroline every time we put a new miniseries on the schedule i say to david what about frankey we haven't had frankey on in too long and your response is often i don't want to do something if i don't feel strongly about it i'm not going to take a slot for someone who would care more about something else to voice those very respectable but you did that in kiki but i have to write movies i've grown a lot of options we have to run me off and usually kind of david lynch i don't know that i you know i'm engaged enough with that to be you know and then you're like you're like i don't want to take it away from someone who really wants to be right i mean you know i feel like yeah like there's something i feel like there would be something interesting about doing like if i were to do david lynch you'd be coming from the perspective of i've never fully engaged with his work in a way that maybe i wanted to and that would be different but i'm like but he's there's so much to say about it from a perspective of people who know and love him i have so many lynch upsets in my life i was like i can't i can't even do that to them people who weren't even in contention to be just people to people we put heckelling on this spreadsheet i go this feels like a frankey moment right david has some offline conversation with you that i'm not part of and then you get slotted in for vamps and it was like that sort of makes sense that feels like a good thing and you'd seen it well that was the thing is that you didn't know that you didn't okay so you didn't know that all right you keep going no you you didn't know what you were gonna say well it's just he asked me like oh do you have any strong feelings about vamps and i was like oh yeah i mean i saw it and i liked it and he was like so you saw it like i was already i was like oh and i was like yeah and i guess i did not at that time know the full lore of just how limited this um one theater release was we will get to we will get to how you know how i did see but i was like oh yeah and i saw and he was like okay so did you like and i said yes and he said okay great you're doing that and i said fine i think we knew when we committed to the series that it would be harder to book our final two films yes in particular that didn't get real releases and that you're like you know as much as heckling as yours there are a lot of heckelling on tourists out there who like are like well of course i've watched every one of our films most we don't know these two movies ever happened right yes i mean so when we get to positions like this there's often this thing of like look we can ask a friend of ours who's a good guest to watch it cold for the first time but it's always better if we know someone who actually has seen a previously and has any feeling about it right where you're not just rolling the dust of someone coming in and being like it was fine i mean right there's a lot of hate it's better if there's some feeling in history there's certain things like uh i could never be a woman where well honestly that movie turned out to be a lot weirder than i thought it was but initially i was like at least it's not a big ask of a guest of like hey watch this 90 minute movie with paul reden it like you'll have an issue if i would be interested in the two i would rather be asking people hey here's the heckling list but if you have any relationship to loser i could never be a woman on vamp's please let us know whereas there are certain movies i feel like where it's like you're making you know i'm more consequential ask if someone to watch some heavy movie that nobody i don't know like it has to come up in a while because we've been doing all these big shots but he's been that right like true kind of movies that don't exist so david does not relate to me that you had seen the film i thought you were doing us a mitzvah right that you were like i like vampires i like comedies this feels like a fun thing to watch for the first time then we have another past guest hopefully future guest reach out to us from out of town who doesn't listen if you're anymore and was like i might be in town in this exact window is there anything you guys could throw at me and we said have you seen i could never be your woman and her response was no but i love vamps and i was like fuck here's someone who's passionate about vamps do we bump frampy off of vamps because i thought you were just doing it for placing a passion right so then we bump you david offers clueless and i was like all right i truly was like mmm are you sure are you sure you're not gonna get them one for clueless constantly surprised trade up yeah yeah and i truly was like a little stress about it because i was like clueless clueless but i will do it like what am i gonna say no to clueless like not to know it was and then there's other persons and now it's here well then david also relates to me france is kind of bummed that she's not doing fam so i'm gonna offer her clueless i was like i didn't realize you actually liked it right then the other persons travel plans got changed was like i probably won't be here until the fall and i was like we got it we're kind of gonna move franky back to vamps because no one else will want to do vamps and i believe david's text to me was caroline i am on my knees begging you to do vamps a little bit no that's literally what you said a lot of it and i was like all right so who do you have we're very appreciative of it oh no it's fine and honestly frankly i think it did work out i have i think a lot more specific stuff to say about vamps and also it is only spiritually correct that blonde did clueless it's just right it's right it's not the first time a blonde is taking my thing and it's won't be the last day i dare i say it a raven haired snarkster doing vamps for sure right it is just gonna clean i don't have my summer tan yet i'm not i'm not christmas matter but i mean may is just a fauna so that the tanning opportunities are just beginning yeah yeah yeah before we dig into the movie proper i just want to give you a shout out beyond just you doing us a big solid in this crazy musical chairs of booking for this season i walk in you are finishing up a caricature of your own face and taping it to the front of your desk because you're jealous that you don't have a cartoon i mean i was it's fun you go you go that's much better now and then you immediately say now i need to do my desk to compete with me when you realize there were two more shittles in general yes i've not been to the studio yet last time i was on the show was six years ago for kiki celebrity service it was at the old audio boom studio and i walked in that was the only one here i'd be both of you which is again no i'm thrilled because i'm never the first anywhere i was crying though yeah this time you were not right i but you very quickly established a good desk spread i'm kind of chaos i'm glad i'm glad i'm glad i did today because i had a lot of stuff in it three note book novel yep and then vape uh no that's actually lipstick and this is not a novel this is um mave brin is the long winded lady which is anecdotes from new york city and actually feels very good brother in that way yes but she's just like it's lipstick oh yeah it's like um oh yeah it's like a it's like a god god okay and then i had an omarie playbill yep i think this might is either i think this is the tightest one i saw both um and then i can do the dark ten tattoos you can't really be able to just plushies and then poppy from trolls yep and then it has an assortment of sour patch lemonade flavor or sustenance we're doing great yeah i'm in it for the long haul here we go then why did this move you in a weird mood um it is yeah i don't know there's the quality the sort of general like i'm eating a generic brand uh versus uh you know this the RC cola it's a little CW sure yeah yeah yeah um it takes you back to that time of the aughts well a happy time for you chaotic time chaotic time yeah yeah i would say i was living my life in a certain way where i don't really remember much of that time quarter by one time you know blankies quick question and be honest when was the last time you actually thought about how much fiber you were eating not protein not calories fiber in the u.s fewer than one in ten adults hit their daily recommended intake and fiber isn't a bonus nutrient it's foundational that's where he will comes in on those days when i got a rush to the studio to tape an episode and i need a quick and healthy meal i reached for one bottle or one scoop that gives me everything a real meal is supposed to give you the black edition ready to drink has 35 grams of protein seven grams of fiber 27 to central vitamins and minerals no artificial sweeteners it's gluten-free and it's under five bucks or let's say on the days that i want something a little more customizable i use the black edition powder i can add it to whatever and get 40 grams of protein same complete nutrition just a different vibe the rtd and powder duo has become my insurance policy against chaotic days and makes staying consistent so easy limited time offer yet he'll today with our exclusive offer of 15% off online with our code check at fuel.com slash check new customers only thanks fuel for partnering and supporting our show david yes got an intentional error about you today well i'm more intentional about what i wear day-to-day oh i'm gonna lean into pieces that feel easy comfortable and put together i'm sure you could get those from anywhere oh quince look i'm really i'm really i'm really i'm really i'm really wearing quince here he's showing tag on me um it's uh been my go-to because very clean fits very nice fabrics yeah don't they don't feel like cheap fabrics i hate dirty fits i hate cheap fabrics i am it we're in you know if the weather's getting warmer i really rely on my quince polo shirts for the kind of like exactly like a formal enough piece of clothing that can go to the office but it's comfy yes because we do have a dress code here headline for it actually uh so they got those hundred percent p mccotenties with a softness they got a feel oh enjoy and for the little david is touching the fabric pants at that same balance relaxing comfortable i gotta tell you i recently had a birthday and my in-laws sent me a quince gift card because they know i like quince so much and i am itching to spend this that's that's a really strong endorsement right yes um everything at quince it's price 50 80 percent less than what you find in similar brands because they work with those ethical factories they cut out the middleman getting premium materials without the markup i've got this cashmere zip hey david is showing me oh nice cashmere zip i like that color it's very nice yeah i wear it all the time it's got pockets um so refresher every day with luxury you actually use head to quince.com slash check for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in canada too that's quince.com slash check for free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash check what do you call this era this is like post indy sleaze yes has anyone named this what's happening in the early 2010s core it's not not indy sleaze it's like the recession era like is the problem it's kind of just like everyone's a little bummed out just post recession and season i feel like this kind of has to be post indy sleaze like i think no one has no for sure i think some transition has happened that still owes something to indy sleaze yeah i don't think it's been defined really yeah post- ultimate avatar of early 2010s new york not just because she was the bee. the bee we can talk about the bee this is what i write about that show exists because it was just like she's embodying something that we got to put on television no one really wears a chunky necklace well even though she's got you know she's quite a skinny frame he'll let it get it yeah yeah the necklace is still don't wear her she likes a slightly puffed shoulder we all like slightly puffed she was so the bee we met the bee we met the bee in 2012 her arms came out the apartment 23 and the don't trust her yeah don't trust her and i told this story before but i lived in a building in apartment 22 at that time and i kept filling out conforms to the bee no i truly when i had to fill out my address i kept thinking like i live in apartment 23 right and i couldn't remember if it was me or the bee and male for where did you start and they begin where and they were like you fucking filled it out for 23 again oh wow um that's true story the bee is supposed to be she's kind of um she's kind of coming off her indy sleet you know she's like a party girl who's sort of like do i need to stop being no no no no no the bee loves her lifestyle that's the whole thing you're right she's no good because she's the bee she's the bee she's the bee she's fond of the people she's fond of her best friend James van der beek playing James van der beek and also was plausible that she'd be friends with you know kind of post post-post-dossons-creek james van der beek he's so good on that show it's such a funny bit and it was ericandria and dream-a-walker ericandria dream-a-walker was the nice girl right yes she was the nice girl who moved in as the roommate who um who won't she won't be beed she won't be beed and although the roommates have in beed so the bee does begrudgingly respect her but she was meek that's the name or the personality but she was like ericandria seems bad cast because he was like dream-a-walkers i'm sure i'm co-worker at starbucks basically okay and he liked her he was an awkward guy but it was weird casting knowing what ericandria is and can do um and i don't think they ever really got a chance to let him do that it also aired completely out of order so just like vampse got a very weird release situation and another um who's really or one yeah but the second season aired completely out of order okay the second season got that i think it's still out of order on who like you do have to like you have to like you have to like to like you have to like um but there was some plot like there was a ton of like overarching plot but enough where you're like wait what is this like i mean happy endings had the same experience and right like you see was just always a little bit like what you like these uh i like happy endings i feel like i said this you like the way a lot of people feel about happy endings and being they were you know a lot of people were very devastated by happy endings ending i was sad but i was so much sad about the bee christen ritter was on her kind of a zoey dey dey channel track where she kept playing like best friends and being like man she's really good with like the like off the shoulder like one line responses this sort of side snark and then they clearly were like can we make her a lead and don't trust the bee was like part of that project right and the fact that the bee didn't change is maybe what made people not totally you know get with it there like but she's supposed to grow and change and she's like i don't have any interest in that one she wasn't really the protagonist of the show it was written in character right yeah yeah but this thing i think about all the time with her um i think she had several children and kind of like disappeared for a bunch of years and now of course was in sonic 3 and seems to be working more but like for someone was so omnipresent really in like the first half the 2010s yeah because it was that it was Jessica Jones yes yeah she's so great in Jessica Jones she's great she's great yeah um just good Jones kind of season one of Jessica Jones such an unambiguous success in an era of superhero tv that is largely not so immediately different so right interesting i don't remember so scary so it's kind of only one of those Netflix seasons that has like exactly i don't remember much about the other two seasons no i kind of forgot there were there's seasons that i'm sure i watched and reviewed them all i don't know guys iron fists i mean that guy did have a fist upon iron and it's stuck with me i remember every part it was like it was just a johnson it was daredevil and those and now daredevil is back but worse just good jump in my head she wasn't on it ever she my guess is there waiting to do something cool with it that's interesting that everyone kind of agrees with unambiguously like worked it did work which when it was announced i was completely like not that's not how i imagine that character yeah um yeah i like the character a lot in comics here's here's what i was going to say i have a very vivid memory of this i think about this way too often she does don't trust the b and it was just sort of like okay this lasted two seasons and it made it to air but it didn't quite work and it felt like all the networks were like there's probably a hit show star in christen ritter and we want to solve what it is she feels like she should be the lead of a hit and these are the final years of like the traditional pilot system let's get you a show yeah yeah where like every january before they start auditioning the networks all start like competing with each other the pile of script is spec scripts that they have acquired being like if we can attach a big name to this this is a go pilot and someone like christen ritter who was seen as like hot you know and had like value um and was ready to be the star of a tv show they're all sending her they're like 20 best scripts and being like do you like any of these and for i want to say three years in a row christen ritter signed on straight off her first position big pilot show that didn't go and i would be i'm stuck in these fucking pilot system runners every year and being like well this script's really good and it's got christen ritter this show's definitely gonna happen you remember what any of them were about one of them i believe was written by her friend Leslie had lent that was an adaptation of her play assistance oh yes yes i remember that sort of loosely fictionalized her nightmare experiences working at the wincing company right yes um and alfred malina was gonna play the winest game along oh my god that was a real good darker believe yes now about we're moving let's clarify there was another one that was like i want to say a sixties nasa space race show and there's one other one i'm forgetting but in that era it's like someone like christen ritter has to make a big choice every january of which pilot she's attaching herself to and yet it just might not get picked up and if that's the case everyone basically goes cool we'll see you in a year well the interesting thing about her too is that i mean when you mention those two things and then mentioning the bee vamps that kind of stuff her taste is you know a little bit more off beat than i feel like she might get credit for the kind of thing too when i was watching this and when i watched him i could never be a woman for the first time and i was kind of thinking about all the heckling stuff just to get myself in the state of mind i was like oh heckling is a fucking weirdo too she is it's a good complementary she is a little goth weirdo herself right and like you know she like choices like you know all men is mother earth i kind of thing we're like what are we doing here it's a choice i might have tried her royal this year but it's a strong choice nonetheless and it's the kind of thing that it seems like christen ritter really responds to is this kind of stuff where it's slightly off and i'm not surprised that the pilots she chose then did not catch up they were all good i remember every year being like well this is the best grip this year and being astounded when it wouldn't get picked up for who knows what fucking reason i even think one of them got picked up and then like unpicked up at something yeah i feel like probably especially knowing leslie's you know what the plays are like and then what happened she she did that she managed to make that right pretty vicious but not as vicious that kind of thing i think it was trying to do this right she got network notes to death yes but like the the old rigid pilot system network tv model at a time where people were still kind of wary of going to cable or going to streaming and also the money was so fucking good if you could get on a hit show there was no off-cycle that was like the calendar which the thing happened and if you picked the wrong thing in the spring you were fucked until the next year right and in between it's like christen readers like okay so i do i like play exes snarky best friend again in a paramount movie or do i play like the lead in a like a lower budgeting heckerling movie and the next year hopefully i get another shot at tv and then it felt like she did the jesica jones move at the moment where it was like yeah streaming does seem to be the place to go and if you're playing a marvel character that feels like you're set for your life and the first season totally worked and then like the entire marvel netflix experience like dissipates and it's yeah this just like seven year run of interesting energy from christen ritter that then has kind of like about did you not hear the echoes that was a marvel spotlight wasn't it was not what if orphan black had an echo orphan black echo she was the star of it has that already come and gone yes you want to work in every week you were like you guys echo tonight you guys hear the echo hello black did not have tatyama tatyama's lani was basically well this is like hollywood's newest greatest pitch tronerries we all know that your least favorite thing about those tron movies is that they take place inside a computer can we get out of that damn boring world and place troner streets of lessons every time i said trailer looks cool right but it is one of those things where i was just like that was like truly a great way to wound me yeah like i love the insane logic of the video game world right now like none of the bikes should go on a street like a highway i don't like the trays but it feels so fundamentally perverse to me of being like don't worry no circuit just like if you do it for an eight yes like right you know which tronerries is a street tronerries i'm sorry and which jennifer plays a computer virus who comes to our world he's out that that sounds about right for where it's okay i forgot to mention the documentary yeah yeah my thing with christen ritter was that she was on for on a kamars yes yes and then she was on gomer girls for eight episodes and then she was on breaking bed and it was one of those things where it's like huh that's saucer eyed goth keeps popping up and so you did feel it in the air of like yeah they're trying to find the thing right that's another like sort of star track thing is like giving people good like later runs yes right and it's clear that there's just like we have negotiated for six episodes not that she's like being brought back because she's working like they're like we have planned an arc that we're pitching to you and it just felt like she was on the cost of something bigger for so long i always like her and i will say watching this movie it stirred things in me that i had not felt in a long time oh you were i thought you're very appealing in this you find a pale woman very appealing with that she has so much my type and yet it was never registering for me previously as hard as it did while watching this you're in a show with her were you not are you not playing animals no are you not in gravity i am but she doesn't work with her you are right i was on four episodes of the deeply remembered stars original series i think it was stars first original series this of course is a stars movie but yeah she was the lead of gravity and i played a gig in peter hacker fabulous um that was one of my lines yeah that's right i was trying to figure out remember christen ritter played on veronica mars i thought she was the recast of late mister but no she was playing um steve goon perks daughter yeah it's not a good time for the show she often would appear on these shows when the shows kind of yeah or past the peak of the fangest day yes yes yes yes yes it's flod yeah it's real goody very clear that i had the one season i quit anyway yes she's very sweet and bam's there's one line in it that's so the b that i was like oh this is where she was where um you know the introduction of homeland security is a big bad comes in which i have so much to say about and she just goes oh the terrorist room did for everyone it would be for everyone it was such a b-line movie has a lot of good lines i do think maybe that's part of it though is like her thing is usually the like acid sarcasm and this is more light i'd innocent here right just completely lovely bubbly which is goes really well and yet still has like the christen ritter darkness to her which i think so much of it is the like and we should crack up in the dossy but so much of these interviews we read with any heckerling like the ongoing theme of her work is like the fight between the pessimist and the optimist that she inherently feels like this dark torture agree that a critical person and yet she loves making movies about optimist it's also it's the new yorker and the los angelina right yes yeah it's very what was what was that you know not to go oh let's quote a tweet but the the tweet i do think the one tweet i think about the most is um someone called la shitty heaven and new york fun hell and you know what it's really good having lived in both now yeah i just think that there is both of these characters feel like stanadans for heckerling in different ways but there's something in casting christen ritter to play an optimist that feels like you are for the first time physicalizing the innate tension within her work in one character so Amy heckling releases a film called i could never be a woman in 2007 and made like two or three hundred million dollars and so unsurprisingly starts to explore the world of episodic television after that because it's such an anonymous film and so she does direct the um sixth episode of the first season of the office introduction to me adam hot girl yes arguably the best episode of the first season i'm just gonna say it yeah no no no office i just won't be discussing that show it's the new juliard we're never gonna let you live down in juliard anger that's fine our second episode um you know the thing with the office is obviously we were not discussing the oh david um i just won't i won't be engaging with that try to show me some nostalgic clip of you know some hygiene something i'm like no i don't wish for that to be in my life anymore but i thought it was ever a big part of my life because i never loved the show i certainly watched the show pretty much through the end i guess i sort of fell off after korelle making a weird face looking the camera's kind of zooming in on here i'm doing like a crash zoom maybe we'll check in with you later in the in the talking head sec yeah maybe you have something to say later behind closed doors straight to camera so like when you say the amy adam's episode of the office i'm like i saw it one time okay but her direct in that episode is actually kind of perfect is it well because she's a pro because she comes into cell bags and everyone thinks she's awesome and it's like she is presented very much as what if ham war hot is kind of the thing which is rude to ham right it activates the thing like she's her hair is even redder she's like you know her sweater is actually fit like she and jim get along and there's no obstacle and that's but it's like that's very it really looks good at that activates the thing in her if she's still engaged to the fucking guy in the warehouse uh and is just sort of like having fun like sort of having this side flirtation with jim and then she sees for the first time like yeah give him being with someone else which activates jealousy and she didn't write that i mean i can't mention she wrote that but there's also that extended um the extended bit was because like there's a fire alarm or something is that or no she's that's when that's later and yaddams comes back and there's a whole desert island she did it that's a whole little work okay was she already i guess it's sort of like right when she's starting to get bigger like jim bug era correct it's like she once she gets the oscary for jim bug she unsurprisingly never comes back to the office interesting but she is on it a handful of times leading right up to that yes but in heck are doing oh um i'm insecure around this hot one right that tracks and like the office had kind of overqualified directors especially as it went on if you don't have people who have been involved in her old rain mess and she's a right man and it was just sort of like this is a cool show the movie directors can work on and not have it seem like their careers look down around and there's maybe a larger sea change in the history happening around that time where like her doing tv doesn't look as bad as it would have five years earlier even yes um well she does that and then she gets signed on to 1985 which was basically like do you want to do a wonder years like an Amy heckling wonder years it makes sense a show that would center on a girl growing up in the 80s narrated by women in the present day i mean it sounds fine it plans to use music at the periods of age truly they might as well just be like wonder years we're gonna do a wonder years um but none of that came to fruition and instead in 2012 we get vamps now in 2005 we get twilight in 2008 we get the movie twilight 2008 we get true blood 2009 we get CW's the vampire diaries relax Ben he has a knife um but heckerling says she more is drafting off a Buffy as a sort of an earlier vampire work and even more specifically that her brother was obsessed with the Buffy movie and she was like I want to do something like this and then she went to the original producers the movie and pitched it to them and it was like you did this and they're not gonna say yes to this if they've already done nothing like this but there was a bit of a micro trend i feel in the post twilight vampire diaries true blood landscape well and Buffy was pretty yeah twilight and that's where that was my semi-mill vampire for sure sure but i think those three things getting big and being cool and sexy right you would feel this thing of like uh maybe somewhat forgotten directors coming out and being like well i have a vampire script where it felt like our vampires just innately bankable is it easier to get money if you have a vampire hook only letters left alive comes out two years after one year after yeah but was a similar thing i feel like when he was doing interviews where he was like this is not a post- twilight movie for me i was inspired by this this is the thing i could get made until twilight which is exactly what happened to her it makes sense uh that suddenly it's just a little bit more like oh well vampires are in right now so sure vampires are such an elastic metaphor it is actually kind of wild how many different pointed ways you can use vampirism to say something be a personal or cultural uh that it makes sense that a lot of different directors would be like yeah i can make a personal vampire movie that's not me just catching it on trend that's me trojan horse and something else i want to say what was nastra do so deal what do you mean what is my deal do we all enjoy segorni we were doing this for a two yes is so tall she does a lot of it she does like control kind of like an ad to the oddity of the original it's a few racist jokes yes who some of these cultural stereotypes seem antiquated i understand that's the point of the character i also get full from chinese food i don't know what she's talking about that is one of those things from like jay's food is very heavy i thought that's often this is a couple of things on tulip no it's aggressive and wrong it's on those racist old jokes here i guess i put some like a gilbert godfreed voice to do it maybe segorni's always had a bit of the godfreed dinner i mean i could she does she's looking like she's having fun she's basically playing like you know what if zool had fun right right now i mean she's her vibe even like the ending scene where she's like floating towards people there's the one scene where they rest her in a way that feels very evocative where they give her the full perm and she's in kind of gold dress i know what they didn't think about so this is also monomay right the same costume designer as oh really i think yeah this is the costume designer is clueless um yes that may guess um which like you know you can also tell everything so rooted in time period there's so many very specific time period things that's something too that i feel like heckling is so like it doesn't surprise me all that someone tried to get her to do a 1985 movie because each one of her films and not even just because of the references they make like not even just the references which are obviously specific um even though the situation hasn't dored he is a sober father now he's doing very well um but everything is so rooted in the time period that it's in to a degree that can be uncomfortable if you live through it i get it i take ten and it's also like there's a point of context i think there is a certain discomfort i feel watching it in seeing them trying to evoke that specifically on such limited resources where it starts to feel like a weird kind of cosplay hollow evocation just because they don't have the space to get it right like something like clueless which is obviously exaggerated and a cartoonified version and they talk about sort of like we were amplifying and exaggerating the fashion trends and then they sort of became the wrong fashion trends and they're also working with you know more expensive clothes in the first total because these kids are rich not made did like a very good job with what she was allotted but you feel it stuck slightly in a weird space of being like a little more height in the realistic but not heighten enough to be funny if that makes sense yeah yeah and it's also because i feel like sometimes it's a little hard to tell when it is supposed to be like a lot of the close christen ritterwares in this movie are they are of the 2012s but through the like they are also trying to be through the lens of sheet was turned in the 80s so like everything is a little exaggerated yep here's what i think is so um no silence i had something to say what do you have to say no no i just imagine you doing the the hands that they do in this movie when they're trying to get people to know that is let you know what you remember what you want to do say i'm this pleased that sinners has done better than my movie i'm so sad i have no choice but to go fuck i'm horny slow the kind of horny i am is very slow i am single and ready to mingle he's like he hollers at you but he's like he hollers at you by being like in three days i will very slowly fuck you like so it's like it's a long way it would be great right but then when he fucks you he's gonna like crawl like you love the bed yes he's a big edger god is he edging it was your father a baker because it looks like you are smuggling two buns this is kind of crass to me but let's go i think that's brought to probably goons i'm always gooning in my cast i have so many tabs open i only fans thousands of dockets whatever they put every money i send more dockets than they're asking for right now there's only ten you can have fifteen i'm big like that how much for a decorating oh i'm so pleased to see that of course we have every vampire house their thing you know the thing is the age of sex free a lot of vampires are sex free because the thing is that they're not she says is often in vampire stuff it's sex true blood and twilight obviously that's the sort of big thing with the metaphor here but no she's much more interested in the age lessness the idea of being eternally young but from different time period here's the super potent thing in this movie that once i walked into this is what she's doing i was on board which is she is commenting on her weird state as a person whose currency professionally comes from any hickering is good at understanding the youth the younger generations what is hip what is cool what is new she has done this across decades right not just that she do it when she was young but she was able to still lock into it ten fifteen years later and like what is this weird balance of being someone whose life is about trying to stay professionally engaged with what is young and new and hip when part of her is also just like i like old gangster movies right like i don't want to deal with this shit and it's this fight of just being like it is exhausting as much as like people like the idea of saying young forever how badly do i now just want to let myself be an old woman and just not have to keep up with this shit yeah um goodie in the how long can we just go to clubs every night right and have to worry about the right outfits and knowing the right bands and all this she's a night person she says she's always figured such a lifestyle might be fun for a while eternal youth in new york um she liked playing around with the slang from different eras it's kind of fun um she which she's always kind of like to play around with slang uh she doesn't like the twilight vampires she doesn't like that they can be outside the daytime that is the thing like what i didn't i wasn't a twilight you know early adopter early i run agar otherwise but when i found out that they can go into the sunlight and not only can they but it makes them beautiful twinkling creatures yeah like these are fucking unicorns like these are not excuse me okay tarylanta make them a beautiful twinkling creature that is the skin of a monster i'm a monster oh horny monster um she's usually good fucking Edward Cullen impression yeah well i'm Edward Cullen ah you smell disgusting let me get up in those guts that's the Edward Cullen in the world where wall is shawn is mr van Helsen yeah well god what's the monster you got there David yes you look like a man who doesn't know that fast we're on trees is america's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over two million happy customers i had no idea yeah well david they have all the plants your yard or home needs including fruit trees privacy trees flowering trees shrubs and house plants my home is littered with all of these and 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that she kind of liked was she's obviously seen nusra to or pelicosi is Dracula or whatever she really kind of a movie that shows no interesting German expressionism but she really kind of enjoyed your art butler's Dracula 2000 oh sure she says i like to take on it it was so Dracula was doomed or cursed because he was judas and that's why he doesn't like seeing crosses uh it's very different take on Dracula she talks that she likes monster movies in general she likes the wolf man with land long chaney the universal classics she thinks vampires are good metaphor for jews outsiders i feel disenfranchised whatever else is doing i'm trying to pass so that's i mean that's the do you are you are you speeding speeding through these or should i care i'm looking for that five i feel like he's taking a lot of time and consideration for everything to say he's got his bullet point i'm just like what kind of the past yeah he's fucking long caroline what do you what did that spark in here well yeah i mean i do i do i feel like with when i first started re-watching guess i don't think i ever said how i'd watch it's the first place yes um i was trying to remember how the hell i have not seen it until yesterday really okay so none of you had seen it until this week okay so that's why when david's brush shot that i never seen it i was trying to remember how the hell i saw it i was in la in 2012 i moved out there in 2011 and i was like did i go to the one theater it was it was released in there was not very thorough box office reporting on this but box office mojo claims i played in one theater for two weeks now i remember it playing in at least one theater in new york city i remember intending to go see it i want to say the village east and it was gone before i got around to it it was really like a movie that stars anchor primarily a dvd distributor and not a distributor of like fancy dvd's kind of a cheapo dvd distribution what mostly like cold horror movies doing like 40 editions of evil dead and whatever got the distribution rights for this movie sort of a bit after filming it wrapped and they announced it as like vams getting a theatrical release will be available to rent digitally ten days later which in 2012 that did not happen often that the turnaround was that quick and was sort of like screened contractual obligation to put this in one theater maybe it was one week in one theater in la and one week in one theater in new york quite possible maybe i mean but i do think i was trying to trace it and you know i don't have a totally satisfying interest because i never fully got it but ask my friend koreen so i hung out with a lot when i first was in la where we might have seen this because i was sure it was with her because i feel like when i first moved to la i you know the idea was i'm working in tv and i'm gonna like say yes to everything and i'm probably real talented hollywood ramping hollywood ramp and i feel like it must have screened somewhere her best guess and she's interesting it might have been like a special screening at there's a theater called cine family yeah yeah i'm fair facts which has since shut down for six past reasons but they screened a lot of things and it would not have been out of the question for this something like this two screen there and i feel like i definitely remember seeing it and if we could have rented it but i think we saw in a theater and i was just going to screenings going to screenings and when she was like do you want to go to this thing it's from the director of clueless it's about vampires i'm like what's not you know what's there not to like about that and then i just never researched any further and did not realize it was such a tortured weird obscure situation basically David asked me to be on the podcast basically a like a straight to vod streaming disc before that i just didn't even know i just was like but again that was all the pitch i needed so it was an audience yes cine family was the kind of place to be like we're gonna take any heckling seriously right um but i i imagine yes i probably disproportionately the amount of people who ever saw this in a theater saw its screenings like that versus commercial release i mean what is the reporter final box i was just gonna be $10,000 $3,000 it's not amazing you know what you're right it's not amazing wasn't i said before that oh yes um but you enjoyed it i enjoyed it and i feel like what was interesting about revisiting it is that you know whenever you talk about any vampire story any vampire story whether it's a teenage thing you know a buffet of vampire diaries a true blood a sinners any vampire story inevitably there's gonna be not just metaphors about sex or drugs i feel like in this movie it's much more drugs and sex until just incurring lu henner have their moment the sex and just incurk feels like her pointed parody of the over sexualized for sure but she's less interested in i mean it's basically drugs but it's kind of she's that's not what she's interested in but i was like this vampires are always a metaphor for marginalized people yes because they you know whether it's queer people jewish people are in the shadows they're in the shadows you know sinners and the you know black americans in jim croissout there's always that and when i first started this film i was like how weird to watch a vampire story where that's not the case and then um wallish on king of homeland security and suddenly the movie's about the patreon act and having to delete people from databases so they don't disappear and how interesting what interesting moment to watch that as dr van hellsing ahead of homeland security like that that full reveal like first it's like oh here's wallish on he's like a new york beat cop or detective this is interesting casting and then he realized oh no he is he's homo dr van hellsing working for homeland security and there's a very like that first scene where he's going to find the body of the pizza guy the eivens for right yeah but the um no no the pizza guy well i'm surgis's partner sorry but uh Taylor Negron you're surprising implied the same pizza delivery guy from fast times yes he's also a delivery man in johnny dangerously yep so this is it but segrenny killed him for real all right they headed and there's such a funny moment between the cop and wallish on where the cop like disdains him for being homeland security like go find a subway map and explosive and then we'll call you fuck off well this movie is very you know again like locked into specifically saturizing things like the patreon act i mean but that's so interesting it is it's just but it also like locks it in like you know i completely forgotten about that part of it and it does give it something yeah that you know i don't know that she 100 percent needed but i find it really interesting that she wanted to and that she locked in on homeland security and the patreon act and you know what would i mean what would vampires fear in modern america maybe that's well also because you know we're following two vampires who from the beginning were like i have no interest in being a vampire who kills people who enjoys killing who likes human blood i don't want any part of it you're seeing a support group of like here is the modern progressive vampire that wants to get away from the negative yes including blood um the impaler tabas we should mention malcomy del play's that glad the impaler does and he's very funny he's very good he's very good in this podcast is that's but it's like these are vampires or whatever well he's a chef of caramel apples he's not a chef he's a the the amount of things she's like what else could he impale it's caramel apples oh sure it's impaling caramel out for sure that that indetermining but it's like these are vampires who want to assimilate who are trying to assimilate and just be as normal and as unattrusive as they can be and they still cannot do that and that is really that's the metaphor right you can never fully assimilate it's just not possible yeah yeah and also the the sort of like the never-ending pursuit of hipness of trying to stay relevant it is like a fucking treadmill that is impossible to keep up with all right so it's interesting because she seems you know it's this weird tension in the film where it's both about relevance and it's about home and security is going to get you right like they're trying to stay forever young but it's not enough to just biologically be forever young they need to figure out how to be relevant young women which is this whole fucking game that's like rat race they have to do and then also yes and like the whole insecurity thing feels like i mean i was kind of pleasantly surprised by it i was like this is actually very interesting route to go down a lot of things in this movie are interesting i think basically i think the script is like borderline great like i think if i read this i'd be like holy shit this thing is going to be a fucking knockout and unlike i can ever be your woman where you like step back and squint your eyes and you're like i see the side good ideas right but none of them are really executed well i think in scripting every idea in this movie is actually why an executed well obviously there's enough money for certain things but there is a bit of a tv janky vibe to some of the trends like oh this could have been a series like this yeah like in the you know the over explaining in the 21st 20 minutes of like here are the rules of this vampire world because every vampire world has its own rules why is clueless such an incredible piece of filmmaking which i would also argue is true for a lot of earlier movies and nothing after clueless has the craft side so nailed down is it truly just money and time at the time we're recording this we have not yet done our loser app which was her last studio film i think as much as that movie is not as loved as clueless i think it has a little more of that i've seen a lot of loser on tv and it certainly looks more like a real movie i do think if you want me to unpack this for a moment he's kind of like he's like a snip of an L on his forehead right finger in his thumb um a lot of it boils down to like time and support i really do think so beyond the fact that you're just like she's got cheaper locations she probably has like harder outs on cast especially with a cast a pretty large ensemble with a lot of big names right a lot of these people are probably agreeing if it's like if you can shoot some warning out in two days you can get her so now you have like a kind of slap dash location that you're putting her in and you're having to run through these grants too grants to i mean good bet i have not been there when i i love watching whenever fucking DVDs have any sort of bts footage not of like you know the interviews but comedy movies being directed uh and the clueless dvd has a fair amount of this and i remember that something about mary dvd being like as a comedy movie obsessed kid like its own mini film school of just watching uncut footage of the director shaping the scene and as much as you can like write it well and visualize it well and cast the right people so much of comedy is like such a weird precise tone thing that it's why these movies need like studio funding really if they're going to be more ambitious than like three people talking in a house if they're going to be more ambitious than like mumblecore shit where you're giving yourself that space and time because the budget is nothing and you just need to stay in an apartment especially for you know not just a movie that requires special effects but i feel like i was also reading a couple interviews with her about this movie and how she would have loved to have done more flashbacks or like more yeah right a lot of the stuff left out of the heels to her is that i'm like curious stuff it's really expensive like i love when they turn into a bat too oh so you're just sort of like why no bat why no bat that's you know that's a fair that's a fair day you think it's a good bit yeah and then they're kind of like talking as a bat mode you didn't like straw on the wrap i love that straw and wrap okay very fun i was like that feels that feels bad and coded if i might close this lu for a moment right you watch her directing like clueless and this footage of her directing like the wedding scene at the end and like the actors throwing out ideas and her finessing it over and over again and things being able to play out in a group shot where you're seeing the real timing of five people like finding a new moment and riffing on and finessing it and whatever that is like the thing that like money gets you is the time and space to do that right and i have been on so many shoots like this where they're like we know we don't have that time so this is going to have to be constructed in the edit we can't spend five hours rehearsing this until it's perfect and then get 20 takes of the whole scene playing out the master they're like we just have to start shooting so then you get into this zone where your shots become tighter and less composed because you just need as many editing pieces as you can possibly get and you need to start getting them fast just getting fucking footage and i think that leads to this feeling of it being like tv which traditionally was always more constructed like that you hire pros and you get funny line readings from them and you create the chemistry in the edit later versus the best comedy movies you're feeling like it's like fucking old Hollywood musical shit where you're like i cannot believe the relationship of these two people moving and speaking in the same frame at the same time and like that is even more than the effects because i actually think it is impressive what she got visually considering how low this budget was yeah i mean the moment when vin Helsing's first kill is pretty horrifying actually right the burn alive vampire it's pretty good i just i'm very she made certain balances of like these effects are important i want to shoot enough days in new york even a lot of it was all right yeah a lot of those are true but also because it's a entire movie you got to do it at night it's a big cast she clearly spent money on the wardrobe all this sort of shit it's like the big concession she's making is time and that leads to this feeling kind of clumsy and in ways now the film as we say it was made for about ten million dollars or so because that's kind of what you could get from loren vercell the producer who made had made that movie city island another kind of ologity new yorky comedy that was a mini breakthrough exactly yeah um it was right now we're producing that steward cornfield her old friend from afy and solar company at a moment where they were very powerful sure i'm almost surprised that they weren't able to get her even like a couple million more to help out but it also feels like her old friend is doing her solid good phone let's get back on the phone so uh he'll be in a good with the next one um one of the funniest things is what was he was he the emmys or something or i forget he knows the Oscars it was when he was on the Oscars then he was like tweeting like you know like as he always does like minute by minute and they were like are you with the Oscars he was like oh next like i'm gonna say all right um Alicia Silverstone's in this film now she's in clueless there's another film that came back going made heckling a lot about her performance in that episode and we talked about the sort of ramp up of her as the aero smith girl we did not talk larger career because the fall off of Alicia Silverstone is culturally one of the more interesting things we've lived through it's a bit of a boomer yes a boomer yes obviously she's in clueless and then her next real big role she is in true crime in a small role or whatever something but that i think was shot before her next is the 97 double barrel of that girl as Batman and Robin and excess baggage which uh with uh beneath the del Toro being very normal she like immediately after clueless signs i think it was a three picture six million dollar deal with paramount where they were like we are in the Alicia Silverstone business or was with i think it was with Sony actually excess baggage i can tell you is certainly a film from the great people of Columbia pictures so i think that was the first of what was supposed to be her three picture deal but there was actually a company called first kiss this is the thing like clueless is so huge and people were even like she couldn't look at Oscar nomination is she a very specifically did not do the tv show because she's like a bit of other things right she signs this deal she's got three movies and they're like we're giving you autonomy here like you are producer on these films pick your material cast them then back girl comes up which at that moment probably seems like well no shit they want me to be in a Batman movie i should fucking do that so that leaps frogs to her next project and her first thing in the Columbia deal is excess baggage where she's like i want binecio del Toro i'm picking the director they talk about the whole movies like her selecting the things on the soundtrack this is supposed to be the real moment of like a leisha solver stone builds a movie for herself and her taste and it is just kind of like completely ignored it's an interesting movie it's not bad in my opinion it's weird and del Toro is really really weird like there are not usual suspects you're a del Toro as like the sexy love and she's actually weirder than exactly but for like then Batman and Robin makes her look kind of silly more than anything people are like this is embarrassing i mean back girls not a very rich role but she's i mean she's she's abominable in that movie and people are like laughing at her like people are mean and sexist to her like 100 she is also so fucking bad in that movie it's kind of crazy because you're like you're clearly a town's performer and i get this as a circus and no one's good in that movie now now everyone says uma and Arnold are good and i can kind of go with them in that but certainly george and dalisha and rob uh chryssordano but especially george cline and leisha solverstone just the line deliveries where they just kind of feel like they're like did i get that right and she makar's like i don't know let's keep going like you know like onto the next crazy set you know it's just like chryssordano at least like where's the suit well like he understands how to be the action figure here as a sense of robin more than the other two i think it is like the the reason alicia solverstone is dinged harder by that man and robin than anyone else is it's a little close to what we were talking about of like wentrovald to fucks up where you're like you look silly how do you not have enough self-awareness to sort of like protect yourself from this but it's also a horrible role i like and but then just immediately followed up by like okay but here is her movie sure people go eh and never castes in the other two movies in her deal no but i will i will always go to the mat for blast from the past a fun movie i really like that's kind of also like salty sweet and interesting with brian and freizure i think i'm movies fun an incredible premise for a movie and a premise that only could have worked in the exact year they made the movie pretty much um i haven't seen it in you know 20 plus years ago i've been watching recently it is okay uh she's in the kind of brand of loveslybers lost which is basically just ignored uh doesn't really make any money at all and it's that's it she's a graduate on Broadway sure but the boring role totally yeah the girl yeah yeah and then nbc is like we've got alicia solverstone we're putting around tv and it's still like oh she that's someone who was a movie star that's kind of a big deal i was pumped from his magic wasn't just that it was her it was darin stone created right no dude i was way pumped because i was like it was one of the most things shows that right and it's like it's silverstone is that kind of star we're in the early 2000s you were like well they and was she playing a matrimical course so she said so it's emma again yeah exactly the whole sounds all right and that showed just kind of stage just didn't work yeah right and she now like she's now like she then it's over pops up and things in little parts but i mean it's like the idea of her leading a movie is gone um but she pops up in beauty shop the great beauty shop yeah a strange performance funny strange things she's like dian keaton's daughter in the book club movies she's one of the long ways and i remember she's in the killing of a sacred deer right the lentimos movie and in like a small role she's um berry mom in it and when i interviewed yorkos for that movie i was like alicia silverstone he was like yeah i love her clueless like i love alicia why doesn't anyone use her like it was great to work with her but more often it's like it was almost like this greek pervert had to like appear and be like y'all like clueless is alicia silverstone does anyone have a number for her she got zero bump from now because it's not a big word right and like i think more of shit where it's like she was the replacement mom in diary for wimpy kid three you know what after the original casteless uh yorkos she's in his new movie the boner kungya great and she is also i don't know that you um taped episode before the clueless tv show was announced that she's going to know what no but it was announced two days after we recorded our episode dude did you know that the cast of bagonia is jesus any amazon and jessi clavans alicia silverstone and stavie stavie i didn't know that that's crazy yeah because people are just like just get me another year's pervert yeah there is a corner of the internet that is really hyped on the idea of stavie being a supporting actor but in a yorkos movie i could see magic there absolutely you might just like nail it um also he's one of our best he kind of is he's great i think he's basically kind of like he's one of his dog boys and being like let's talk like nefarious back i shit guys i mean like let's do it you know like what kind of bad behaviors can we get into you guys hear him on wtf as well i know i should listen i know i should listen he locked the gates and just basically talked about politics for like forty straight minutes at the end of the episode and was so fucking small he is very small he is very smart yes um she's done a lot of theater oh yeah she's really good in this she isn't she's really good she's really good in my opinion she's really doing a lot of the clueless stuff the little you know the little mouth tug that she does so cute you know like and the kind of like sweet with a little salty like really hair cool what do you think of the makeup what do i think of the vampires in the right across the eye shadow now that of course is an e-mehleling staple e-mehleling always has the recognize well i will yeah that's true right that's one of her things but it does feel very like okay so these are the vampires we're gonna like put very intense eyeliner on them and sometimes but i would say like of that air like i was putting a lot of eyeliner on them so i feel like it was also but i'm guessing you look better than tawberry no offense to hold on well thank you so much don't forget to think that we're in an exact midpoint of like your 10 over it being realistic but 20 percent under it being funny exaggeration sure we're just sort of maybe looks a little sloppy i mean yeah definitely like it's it's near it's not quite there it's but that's kind of a kind of you guys have you done over your many many years how many other vampire movies have you done really good question actually not that many that many i mean every episode that is brought well we did quite like franchise on patreon we've covered john carpenters vampires john carpenters vampires that counts but for house dirty a franchise this is especially franchise this is dirty no shit yeah i mean it's just there's so well what are the big vampire things we might have done let's see we bought a zoo was that vampire we haven't done you'll jordan we haven't done copala we haven't done drama no we haven't done her zog her dog like i'm thinking of but i'm like are you but did you guys like was you know if you as much as you liked monsters or any if i don't know if you were monster boys were you vampire boys big time monster boy but you're not as big a vampire boy i was gonna say i was gonna say i'm a monster monster monster not like a monster like a monster or like a thing or like you know almost a lot of pain con could you know i say as a child i kind of my mind sparked the most of dr jekyll mr hide okay was very big for me but i also think like scooby-doo as a gateway into the monster like the ghost yeah but also like frankenstein's mummies zombies and then i watch you in the monster mesh what's going on here your target your great vampire movie another revisionist yeah yes um but i was really into the classical monster types both the funny versions and the older quote unquote scary ones but the ones that were not modern horror films vampires always interested me less and it is funny that every time i hear a director i like and i had this exact feeling when sinners got announced isn't dark shadows of vampire yeah another good call in bird every time a director i like i announce they're doing a vampire movie i'm like what is it with vampires most of the time i enjoy it and yet i never answered and like i saw sinners and i was like fuck there's still juice in this vampire thing there's stuff you can do with it and yet i'm sure the next time someone i like an absolute vampire movie i will go why again why another one why do you not like my movie all the movies we listed i basically like you know and i'm like as long as there was some personal point of view like only lovers left alive is one of my favorite movies of that so i mean only lovers left alive is kind of the artier vamps because it's also like we've lived for so many years of society here we are just kind of chilling what do we do with ourselves america's getting weird i think his metaphor in that movie is more kind of like hipsters not being able to reckon with the fact that they're still alive right it's sort of like that movies about junkies kind of being like jeez we made it and now we like live into troydon like world's going to shit and there's like elements of that like interview as vampire like that kind of thing like i definitely remember when i first you know i gotta watch that show everyone's telling me that show is so good it's good i mean the thing that and i hear it's a little horny it's very dave and rice is a little bit of a i know i know a little bump your brakes like a little horned up yes fucking yes sex wall wall wall well dicks on dicks i need them on top of a little sand no don't just stacking no big mac you know moist maker but that one jenga towers yeah does that happen jenga towers are like a sex act for people to go to this party and just go like how many dicks can we stack on top of each other but then you're gonna be like ladders and step goals yeah okay just are you talking horizontally or vertically who knows i'm talking for a round oh i was talking to see i my brain went to horizontally so i've got a lot of different that i feel like is more like building a rope bridge though isn't it like sort of slap by slap oh boy if you're going horizontally i think jenga tower has to be vertically it's the same game of like how many guys can stack on top of each other i will say mechanics have rapidly is there fully in control i will say that you never made one i'm just looking at all our vampires the other one thirst oh that's another good one i love vampires i love vampires who's your favorite well i mean i guess no no i wasn't a dracula girl um i did not like angel like i like spike better than angel angel self-crime instantly maybe he does so he does solve crime and all he he took over a law firm sorry actually you know vampires thinking of a lot during vamps is harmony the blonde vampire from both being angel she's a she's got a vampire she's very very bouncers like really i actually rewatched an angel up a summer she like her city's mcknab for satan's mcknab and she's working as angels like receptionist and she has like a little montage in the morning she's getting ready and brushing her fangs and like warming up the rap blood and it's very fast oh i have to swing in here for a moment hotel translational energy oh yeah vampires in the trilogy i'm sorry yeah of course then that is a trilogy and that is canon and you can mark that down you can put it right in the book yeah that's great and vampires always like very much interest me definitely you know they were sexy in a way where it's like we're not having so much there happens but wait so it's an introive it's interesting what was your vampire is it Buffy i think it's definitely Buffy was that your activation like do you feel like you were naturally inclined towards vampires as a child and Buffy was the best version of that or was that when you first locked in i that's when i first looked into like well actually i was gonna say that was when i first looked into like narrative tv being a thing that i really fell for but actually that was um hay Arnold which got shot out in this film in a slightly rude way but i love a hay Arnold shot just like Jake Vogue in this get the fucking drive-by in this movie look so many funny friends that feels really good but all of these references feel like right oh right the first draft of the script is 2005 yeah it's like we're making fun of talking head shows but it's also you know something that's always friends aggressive about vampires so one of my very best college friends is a drag performer in um Brooklyn i think i probably should have done a show girls because that was my favorite um the wonderful miss malice in every January if you're in Brooklyn you should go to their vamp theme show every other vamp's theme show not a vamp's vampire theme show every year they do it every year they find new shit to do there's you know this year there's definitely more no sriratu stuff she likes doing vampire lovers like very classic 60s like ingrip hit like vampires because there's that whole genre um there's a there's a really good loss boys this year and it's just a kind of thing we're being like yeah being in this room full of like you know very like only like queer trans people who are just like vampires are a thing they live in the dark they are the thing that people are afraid of like so for that room it was like this is queer coded in a way that we all caught into as kids i i guess i you know i guess i was closeted as a kid i just don't even think of it that way but i don't i for me that's not what it was really about it was more like this story is so interesting and intricate and i liked learning the rules of the Buffy vampire world so i always i'm interested in how the rules of vampires shift between um depictions and if someone finds a new sort of new thing to do like no the idea that a vampire like all the vampires like you know one vampire sired will die if the sire dies is a you know an older thing but this the vamp one the vamp version is very interesting of like you will age back to the age you were right and you are too old you will die and i think i was like that is a really interesting twist on something i have seen many times and the other thing about not to do my own david bullet points where i'm like and you're all like do it um one thing if i'm very interesting about vamps and something i was really trying to think about and i don't think i can think of another example and i'm sure someone listening to this is we'll find it um i cannot think of another vampire thing where the primary love story is between is a platonic soulmates thing because usually vampires are very tortured lovers over time and it's like very we are this you know like only lovers left alive is like we are this couple we have stated that the hunger is very that it's another great movie um and if you're the vampire like all these very lovers over decades yes yes yes yes or there's a mortal in and not more like twilight buffet but the platonic like we are roommates and we've been hanging out for 20 years having a good time is very different yeah and cute here's my vamp's right cute who makes a stem how do the stems get me well that's where i am just like if they we had a tv show we could get into that because they have this very flashback yeah correct me if i'm wrong attempt to explain what distinguishes us the setting of the story because we're talking around different aspects well i mean i was going to do more that i'll say but that's fine well we'll circle back to that yeah so uh these two women been living in a like st mark's place a pretty for 20 years good evening and native new yorker yes and stay see played by christen rer who uh goody often is dressed in heckerling outfits yes we talked about the 1840 heckerling sort of like modified charlie chaplin kator that you see her doing behind the scenes a lot uh soberstone does like a lot of variations on that uh they have been vampire roommate friends for 20 years they live a very simpadico sort of uh tandem life uh where they go out every night and try to enjoy themselves and our but as we're saying are kind of starting to feel the wear of having to keep up with these people why is the technology changing why are the trends changing it's too hard to like keep this all going i don't know if you folks caught this but the first scene where they go to a bar i think the introduction of ren field the band that's playing is molly israel's band no i thought of a me hecker that's fun yes and i also love that ren field is their gay best friend yes uh the great exact the great decor that was great exact was great i said he was great i know but i'm building on that i'm cosigning it or doubling down he's the great he's the great times where did you get that then look yeah he's very on point yeah he's a very odd point yeah oh it's the swoopy hair like big and party thing oh yes yes for sure which i feel like was very like l.a. was swamped by and hearty at that time uh so gorny we were the one who turned them they have an uni's with her yes her assistant guy is tiberian yeah uh very funny you wish there was more fun exactly tiberius of empire is a good bit and there's not enough money in the bank he's with things that you're like holy shit give me this all day um but they have an uneasy relationship with her they have found their sort of vampire chosen family in the support group people like labby and paler don't want to feed off animals who are like we will stick straws and rats and be exterminators and we found a more humane way to play like no it's sanguine anonymous oh yeah right and they work as late night janitor so that they can have access to matters and dead rats right pretty pretty solid it's far like all of this is like these checks out this is vampire shit you like where it's like any vampire movie getting into the what are the structures of their life what are the systems they put in place to be able to like exist and sort of uh slip by i mean you know and i feel like for especially comedic vampire thing it's like very what we do in the shadows where it's like and they are just living life in statin island and occasionally they'll go to the dmv and that's what they're doing the brass tacks of how you stay a vampire um they uh christen ritter meets dance defense uh a handsome young man yep uh we love him and if his office air like this is like peak downton yeah so downton starts in 2010 like yeah and he's just left it by 2012 i just think every movie after this there was the sort of guest thing of like fuck that's dancy even he changed his look so the guest is 2014 one of the hottest green performances of my lifetime and i like dancy evens and i think he's been good in other stuff but the guest was kind of one of those things you're like oh a colossal movie star has arrived right i feel like if more people have seen this film they would have been like oh and he's also a freak like why is he's not like he's not really allowed to be as much of a freak in this one that's not his role but the fact that he's in it at all is kind of this is my history taste is i do do and i think he's really good in this but the fact that he chose to do it this feels really interesting doing a funny mocking of how he was from down right yeah whereas after the romantic leave with the blue eye yes and then after this it's like no i'm zagging so fucking hard i'm gonna like reintroduce myself and i'm gonna look different and i'm gonna have a jawline so you're talking about beating the beast and i'm gonna play maniacs yeah of course mania he is the beast he cannot deny he's the beast i think he basically always hits now but it feels like he would not even let himself do something like this today i don't know i feel like conjuring too much how he was originally perceived but i mean at least it's like he's surrounded by bat shittery like his father is wallish on the head of homeland security a hundred percent why he wanted to do it yeah yeah yeah like this movie is insane i get to be funny yes right right um and he's very charming in this yes he's an interest-in-vitters character's phone love right he is a part of dark cross classic the son of homeland security van housing and another thing i love throughout these um heckling movies is they will set up some sort of dynamic and you're like oh fuck so the whole movie is gonna be keeping the two of them apart until the very end i like that basically 45 minutes in he confronts her yes she reveals herself and then they just start to deal with it right and it's like always more interesting when the conflict isn't like external forced things keeping them apart it's like what are the struggles of how to be together it's funny when she's like so what do you want like you want a girlfriend you can go hiking with you want to like try new restaurants like i'm not gonna be that and he's like i don't i don't need to do that like i kind of like i think actually we are compatible in this way it's not just that i like you i don't need to go hiking it's a very funny thing to say the core tension of this movie that kicks in is a weavers get increasingly out of control she's a monster she's a monster she keeps fucking she's sloppy she's sloppy she's keeping people she's given vampires a bad name page six is all over it but also christen ritter gets pregnant which is so like again you know i something that's kind of not allowed in vampire logic and they don't address it for a while but then they do address it i actually think i didn't remember how the mechanics of it worked because i was like is this like a twilight thing where it's just like well she's special so that's what happened i kind of like that um malcomic devil vladies poking the apples it's just like yeah she's pregnant and it won't survive because it can't so give her a week yeah it'll right within a month it's gone that just like vampires can get pregnant but it's not we can't sustain life so it's just not gonna happen so it's like oh that's actually just a very elegant way of dealing with it now alicia solverstone has been lying to uh christen ritter she's the one who turned her stacy stacy perfect 90s and her goody same year old stacy that she was basically the same age as her but like clearly it's not has been 1800s 18 she's turned in the 1840s but she i don't think she turned she did not turn state no oh so sisorous turned both of them yes um but it's like basically just to there's like a very funny line where she's trying to get them to dispose of her bodies and stay safe just like but we're only good for like trying stuff on and like clerical work like that we are your assistants like that's kind of the vibe but basically and you know there's even a line like towards the very end where you know we'll get to all cry where goody is like i was gonna walk into the sun before you got turned like i was i was pretty much done but now we've had a great 20 years but it's like it's what happened with that it's part of like what i like about only lovers left alive and a lot of the vampire stuff i like the most is like the curse of immortality and getting to this point where you're just like i kind of wish i could die this is unnatural i have like had to live through too much and lose too many people and also have like whatever hedonistic pleasures and joys i could like indulge in from a life without consequences yeah i run through them what's left and the interesting thing i feel like one reason why i actually also don't love the scene that opened this podcast um where she gets mad at the box you know we're famously not in the room but where she gets frustrated with what's not that i disagree with the sentiment at all and actually the more i thought about the more i was like yeah no maybe i also will shuffle off this mortal coil if i don't have to like check my phone ever again um but i don't think i think i'm glad that that's not the only motivation for her being like it's okay if i die because that's not enough no no right that's a bit of a huge bummer because also like at that point she's also we haven't even god i'm glad that you are you know down to talk for way too long about so many things because we haven't even talked about Richard Lewis as her the love of her life we'll get to Richard Lewis we'll get to like my my uh grandmother of some age culturing this episode right a lot of my life is now centered around me helping her with devices and it will often be this wild oscillation between like this is incredible thank god this is amazing i can't imagine having lived this long without the resource of being able to watch like any movie at any time in my bed on a thing the size of like a piece of paper right and the other half the time she will say things to me like i was never supposed to live this long i can't learn all these things like what am i supposed to do why is this no longer a thing i can solve in a phone call or a letter why do i need to sign up for more stuff right and i think it's more like fair feeling there was that feeling of like leisha sloperson's character is secretly 100 plus years older right and she's much older than the other one and then what i what i like one thing i like too is that it's not like she's very nostalgic for the time when she was turned which we find out you know she was brewing cholera and right it was a horrible time to be a poor person in new york like she's probably and that her go-to dressing style is not that it's actually the 20s when it seems like she was happiest when like things changed electricity happened people were out having fun and she was like that's what she's nostalgic for and also the you know movies because and i also she's a set of file in this it's the very very right so it's not that she was always resistant to change that she enjoyed the change she got and then it just kept happening well so christen ritter inside her coffin has photos of like late 80s early 90s pin-up boyfriends right she's got michael j focks and shit inside her coffin her taste has remained you know static right it's the moment she was turned right and it's basically like that feeling of this kind of point in a person's life in between your 20s and your 30s where you're like i'm out of the control of childhood and there's a level of responsibilities i've not really kicked in and is my life mostly centered around like getting drunk and going out with friends and having dinner and having fun and all this sort of shit which is what both of them kind of yearn for right more than a specific era of history it's the point in time where they felt that way for the first time which for leecha soberstom because her lifespan is so much longer and she was born into a culture that never allowed people to have never liked that that makes sense that the 20s would have been the first time that was basically like the equivalent of her being 26 and also culture kind of exploding for the first time and she's nostalgic for feeling that way for the first time in the same way that christen ritter is about like 1992 and at least it's always been lying about them being on the same timeline and pretending they're in the same place because as you said basically finding someone else you can relate to this hard in a platonic way gave her the motivation of being like i guess it's still fun to be alive i want to do this but we have to be on the exact same page about all of this shit and when christen ritter gets pregnant and she realizes the baby is going to sort of like destroy itself she realizes there's like a two birds with one stone solution which is i need to kill segorni to sever the stem which will solve her like help her it'll free her it will free her personal ritter you know that's the age they would have been it's a captain it will be the end of me so christen ritter is going to go from 20 to 40 and she turns morning in the future is also like very specific that she is turning 40 and that when she finds out she's pregnant and that's also such a cute little scene i feel like christen plays it so well too and so does alicia because she said it being like oh i talked to flab and you're just pregnant it'll be fine and just so excited and she's like oh shit you want the baby and i just didn't even consider that might be something you'd want she's like well i'm 40 when i'm gonna get another chance like that's the reason yeah it's a good line and alicia solver stone like does the math and it's like i can solve this but the price of it is i will revert to my real age which will be dead it is basically a suicide mission she has to sacrifice herself to this unknowing to everyone else around her she's not letting christen ritter know because christen ritter thinks that she's gonna turn 40 as well i always kind of like this dynamic of two characters thinking around the same page about something and one person just sort of quietly soically suffering in advance of like i'm ready to do this and i don't want them to know that i'm doing this for them because they will try to talk me out of it and i feel like you know stacey kind of does suspect it that you know they're not quite the same age because references are not you know with it she loves a drop ways too much even though you know you can only say you're an i-lady warren for so long she always claims that she learns something from the history channel there's a really great gag every time i watch this for each other it was just about itler which is what this channel is it is true but that's i was so glad you wrote because i was like that bit is not accurate until that line and the early step of the bit which also feels very heckelling is like the way her old timiness kicks in and she just wants to stop in random corners in your city and you like remember when it was right so you said this is here yeah right which is like i think how like a lifelong like a new yorker like any heckelling feels it's certainly how you and i feel absolutely talk my favorite fucking time right how it used to be like a dentist office there and it's fucking cares he's doing the 1920s version of that and christen ritter is like how do you know this and she goes like history channel as history shows her every one to six it just doesn't seem like she was very savvy when it comes to real estate because if you've been around that long where's that apartment be off the freaking park or something come on really be in the thick of it in st marx place or whatever or even i just love the eternal life thing of like you deposit a penny and then suddenly and then like a hundred years later you're like super rich it's like a very like interview with the vampires kind of like that where they're like we have figured it out now we own shit but it's true she has always been kind of like middle income it seems like she's never a math great work as like exterminators if anything she should have been making good money she should have made it like some investments i do their point that is a purposeful statement though bam because it's like the whole point is they are relishing being stuck in a stage before you need to start to make future decisions that's interesting right it's that span of years where you're just like at one point and i told i need to start figuring shit out and they are stuck in like decades of that's for later well so that's one thing that i was thinking about when you know she does her little blog grant and then she very surely thereafter realizes that she's gonna have to die if Stacy's gonna like be happy and whatever is that you know for me i was looking at being like but you did just have like a very fulfilling moment where you got your ex-boyfriend who's now um you know i will say a hunky acl you lawyer who is you know down and ready to help and you got all these people um you're saying richard lewis now is hunky i think in panda's i mean he's hung here in the present time when he is in that way in the 60s well the wig is i just i also i love it's not a major studio i just love that that guy play by richard lewis is the object of lee jesilber stones like utter another three very very if you look at the man of heckerling's life and we have not acknowledged he also had a very long relationship with ronson pincho in the 90s sure richard lewis you admit sense that you're like any heckerling when she was 12 probably saw him do stand up on late night and was like that is my greatest crush of all time richard the thing right that i like about richard lewis i like pretty much everything the final season of kerb where he is like so close to death almost was not on the final season and dies like before even premieres and you're like man he for 70 years kept the hairstyle you know he got black outfits and the attitude like in this sort of empiric way he's like a nightclub comic forever right you know he's do you like richard lewis men you're making the whole thing yeah i think the thing for me when i remember that that's this is the way the movie was going is that i had a moment where i was like but goody you just found another gear like this is something you can help people like you change people's money you like sure you connect people and so i had a minute where i was like oh do you really have to like this isn't it's not all just it comes a little bit out of nowhere when she starts talking about her kids and stuff well that i don't know where i don't know because there's the scene where she like looks at old pictures and stuff and layered it but like just like that back story is so good i think but exactly it's just resonant anyway it's kind of weird that she's telling vanna doctor vanna health saying why not he's a nice man she's one of her well she's interested in her in a way that most aren't right she actually cares about vampires sure and he is like here's a new bit of lore i didn't know here's a great runner in this movie and he's learning to be sympathetic to them is she changed it's a lot of them with segorni weaver this movie constantly represents the idea that like any complicated dynamic can be worked out through a very good conversation right yeah sure and like in a way that doesn't feel like sloppy like whatever wave it off screenwriting it's like can she appeal to doctor vanna health as a person and get her to like consider her as a person rather than as like an abstract enemy in the same way that like dancy evens christen ritter can figure it out and the richard louis thing when he's introduced they're like exterminating at a hospital where his wife mary lou hanner is like in the latest stages of cancer and elisha slorson cloxin this was like her greatest boyfriend ever her like political radical college student boyfriend from the 70s who she had to dump because she was starting to get to the point i think she says it's seven years it's like after seven years i have to acknowledge i'm not aging and that he wanted he wanted a family and she couldn't do that which also like it's a lot of stuff about motherhood in here too yep yes it kind of doesn't make sense that she wouldn't know the deal of pregnancy you think it would have come up with whatever doesn't matter richard louis um sees her is like how is this possible and she says like oh what are you talking about and then very quickly creates the cover story of like there must be a basic cover story for them it's like i must be the daughter right um and i'm like okay so the movie is going to be 90 minutes of her lying and pretending that she's the daughter and then once again the conversation comes much earlier than you would expect they just been so they're pretty quickly where she's like i'm just gonna fucking own up to you he's smart enough to figure it out the other way that was she stops at robbery and yep there's no way to and she says i could like hypnotize you i think you deserve better they have this really interesting emotional conversation about like why he she had to leave him and said you deserve to meet someone else and did you meet so did you meet someone amazing and he said yeah it did and you're in the zone where you're like so they're spending so much time together is the idea that they're setting up that now that he's lived a full life with his wife and she is sadly going to pass away that the door will be open for maybe her and him to be together elisha silver star and britishard louis and it's just not really i mean i also appreciate that there's never actually a moment because i had a member i was like oh my god i was gonna hit on her because even though she said he thinks she's the daughter and that never happens no he's just like your mom was great yeah and he's holding a candle for his wife who is still alive yeah and elisha silver star in a similar way like i think it's not that she has a death wish but she realizes like i could do two great things for the two people i have cared the most about my entire life and also as she says i have lived so fucking much like i've had my felt like not that i resent still being alive but i like i've been not greedy but like i've been very lucky with how much i've gotten to experience well yeah that her explaining that the reason why she begged to be turned into a vampire because the you know people who are begging to be turned to a vampire is such also like a very you know common trope in vampire people are seeking it out like you know like rent field in this like he's like oh wait give me like that's not how it works or like you know people um buffet there's always like groupies or whatever you know people always want this or they think they want this but her reason is also completely different from anyone else it's not like oh i just want to like not die she's like i have two kids who will be orphans if i die and i would rather not leave them alone right and she talks about her kids lived until like 80 and 99 i think she says her daughter set the record for the old slippers and i was just like yeah i was unprecedented at the time and now she has gone on to live like another hundred years past that but she was like but the only thing i wanted to do with this was raise them and i did it and i did that so like what is it now right and i just i've never i really like um i don't love you know all the some of the vampire stuff is cheesy in this in a way where i'm like okay you know i don't i don't need like a blood suckers in an honest situation but i get it but i do feel like some of the like she apparently clearly did a ton of research i mean the vampire bat thing alone she's like we have an enzyme in our spit and i just spit into him i was like you have done some wikipedia whole research and i respect it but some of her twists on the vampire thing i think are really interesting and smart in a way that ties back to the themes she's the most interested like aging motherhood relevance yeah those are the big three in this movie right and they all track really well onto vampire history and our cultural understanding of them and uh yeah i just like it was one of those things where i said like first 30 minutes i'm like okay there's some funny jokes in this yeah get the concept right this is gonna be sustainable next 30 minutes i'm like fuck i'm like care about these characters and the last 30 minutes i'm like she has set up all the pieces on the game board really well and really effortlessly for now this all being like perfectly set up for a very effective finale yeah and it's definitely a kind of movie where i feel like she's so like it's so close to getting all the tonal mismatches right like i feel like you know i she she definitely she clearly loves like a voiceover an exposition dump etc this movie starts with quite a clumsy one like it really like and it starts off on a note where you're like oh okay here like i'm sure i can tell that ventron this morning was like okay right because it starts and you're just like fuck is this like a student film it's just a little bit it's a little like and then you know then the sixties happen it's like i'm like we're just we're just doing the decade of photoshopped like pictures and like dumb motion graphics right but it's because she's like i she clearly has so many ideas and only have so much time yeah this is the most efficient way to do it of course then i went to see cinders yesterday and i was like well that's how you do it that opening thing like that was it's crazy does the exact same thing in black panther he is kind of the king of doing that like two-minute animated in an interesting way intro that's like got it got it let's go yeah right he's figured out how to make that about as elegant as he possibly can uh and and successfully stick a bunch of info in your head that allows the rest of the movie emotionally yeah yeah yeah um but yeah i just i was gonna say i was actually i was reading um david sims' interview with ryan coogler great guy really incredible i got to talk to you i mean i just think david's a great guy yeah you know what i really just i would kind of like all of david don't wait but i was i was interested i feel like something um i don't remember why i thought it was good no i do i was wondering i thought um one reason why i think he really encapsulated something that i always i feel like is the thing i liked about vampires and does come up in every single adaptation and he really i'm summed up quite well in your interview vampires still have so much of their humanity left their knowledge and also they can present to something that's not what they truly are but i mean cinders is partly about vampires being great lovers of art right like and being drawn to like artistic sort of like like primers in the fucking force they're like yeah oh my god someone is speaking to human experience they can steal it and repeat it and oh sure and like and like there's it just rocks that that's sort of like he's thinking about vampires and like he hits on that right rather than just like it's scary that they suck your blood which is scary very scary and a little sexy and a little sexy let me my favorite thing about interviewing ryan was on their same basis yeah he's my best friend uh was when i was like you know can i bring up um you know from dust told on obvious the most obvious sort of like analog or two was like can i bring up plus and boots the last way exactly yeah right he was like dude i obviously love that we i love robert roudriguez and when i talked to robert about from dust told on he was like well my biggest influence was by glee like i was just trying to copy spiky i didn't know about this matter the other thing i was a 25 year old or whatever he was when i'm making these movies and i love fucking spiky i love do the right thing is like a 24 hour movie and then coogler's like and i love from dust told on but what i love is the faculty because the faculty is two genres getting mushed together in a way that shouldn't work and does like that's my bigger inspiration he's not just such a historian and is so smart about the lineage of these things and what he's in conversation with but also that he's like a fucking omnivore that his tastes are so varied and you're like this guy does just fine but the thing aspects and everything and then so he's talking about the faculty and he's like and then obviously inside luen davis lovers rock this is queen thing and then he's like and then the biggest thing for me is this twilight don't have a so called the last rites of jeff mertlebank and i'm like what's that you know like it's like how it's about a small town you know that you said and like and then he's like and salem's like the book not the movie i've never seen the movie except for the one shot i'm like the shot of the kid floating in the window he's like yeah the one shot everyone seemed for brazilian's lot you know i don't remember what interview it was not to give credit to an interview that you didn't do but someone else speaking around coogler he talked about how he was i think talking to gorensen as they were like plotting out the movie about just like what's sort of happened to the blues like i'm making this movie about the spoilers for centers the biggest movie in america probably still has a big influence by the time this episode comes out but this like lineage he's creating the history of music and you know right the the slipstream of all this stuff right yes and he was just everything like something to the point there's a big jump right yes yes you say this in the interview very wisely and and he was just like i'm like trying to fill this gap between like the blues and hip hop and funk and like what is this missing piece here and gorensen was like grunge nice grunge was like the 90s big wave capturing the spirit of the blues and he was just like i've heard the three nirvana sounds that are on the radio all the time and how he's like all fucking in the garage now good slog is in there right and it's like drug addicts like struggling with their sadness and being owned by corporations and like i mean that that mid movie sequence you know that one or just like you know just all the different music eras it's so impressive on 10 000 different levels but it's also like very of a vampire movie like it's also all these different eras when that happens and i was completely i saw the film very early not to brag because i was interviewing ryan coogler and david sims uh and when that's why i was completely unprepared for that sequence i really hadn't watched the trailer for sinners i just knew there was a big band i didn't i didn't even know that the sequence was in there so i guess um that's awesome that it caught you off guard or whatever it's a secret to like damn he he rocked that but then you're also like damn b-boys spinning around while blues music play you know it don't still even could suck you like could not work it's like humongous swing and part of what i think is the thrilling about the movie and has really captured people is it's the kind of sequence where you watch it and when it starts you're holding your breath and you're like he is so close to fucking this up or this is not the movie does not recover from this it's like it's crazy that that that's to be like that things escalate from there like how is that not like i mean it is a peak but then the there but it is a kind of sequence that underlines why he picked vampires you cannot do that you can't do this zombie movie like it's not a saloon okay zombie movies are so much we should get a saloon yeah okay that is what i was saying um no because i was just talking about zombie movies with my friends uh who are asking like zombies are not my monsters and uh i was like you know with zombies it's like it takes six to forty years for danny boeldin be like what if they ran and people are like hold on here cowboys zombies may have been one way you know it's like there's not a lot of variation with zombie stuff you know and this is interesting and reflects usually just one kind of thing which is an apocalypse yeah i am so much more innately drawn to zombies like if you can't tell me that someone's making a zombie movie i'm excited because the world has to be different i don't know because the whole world has to be zombies and the whole thing about vampires is that they're trying to be you know they're trying to pass unnoticed and have their space and have their space and have a good sexy time i think i do my cooning tool if like zombies could just like live in the world and like just eat leftover dead people or toss them out right toss them i'm so sorry then cover your ears cw show um i zombie does try to do that yes but um bodies does sort of version of that as well but it's like there's only so much you can do with that like with vampires it's very much like they have one face it's a human face they have another it's a vampire face and they have enough of their memories and they have all their previous knowledge like they don't suddenly factory reset in the same way that other monsters do like i mean and werewolves are kind of that where it's like once a month but you it's involuntary but vampires give you so much room to work with in terms of a person's memory what their relationship to the world is how that changes it's yes it's much richer storytelling there's more baked in that has interesting potential i think i do like societal collapse in apocalypse stories and yeah yeah things that get to test human behavior and like yeah zombies are that i think i also like the iconography of rotting people like i think you told me it's wrong if it's zombie i'm more engaged the basic of a cartoon than like a guy with fame some bloods and bloods and bloods and bloods and bloods and bloods and bloods and bloods and bloods but yes you love rut i love rut but yeah like and i think our buddy david re said this on the 20 years later episode he was like i can't think of a type of movie i love more with a lower percentage of movies i actually like you know and i think like i will be pleasantly like entertained by some junky shiddy zombie movie but like unquestionably there are more vampire movies that i think are capital g great then zombie movies and yet i hear someone's making a vampire movie i'm like again i hear someone's making a zombie movie and i'm like yeah let's go even if it's a two out of 10 um that's interesting i mean i feel like you know because zombie movies are about the humans they're not about the zombies right because the zombies don't have thoughts that's what i like that it it sort of creates a template for an ensemble cast that is the reason for the reason is being good obviously vampire stories are still very human but usually the humans themselves are of secondary importance for sure you know they're maybe doing an interview with them they call it to be interview them yes that's also what to interview you kind of like with coollor perhaps i interview what do they call humans in this movie day players day players is a joke on me that is a that is a film production joke day players are what you call an actor or do the one that was only doing the one day yes it's it's it's clever um to your point she realizes that she can get this rush from helping other people and it sort of gives her reason to live but i think it's a really good unsolvable dilemma which is like she's found this new pappener step and yet she realizes the single best version of that involves her dying and she also yeah she doesn't seem to bother her she just has to adjust and she's also like my friend is about to have the opportunity i already had i got to raise a child she wants right and so she then also very generously is like i can bring in horny jusden kirk and save Richard Lewis's life he's pretty honest marry me i just think like the energy on the side of the room we're like give us a second i have a moment with eyeliner jusden kirk kirk you premium he emphasizes over that's funny that's a funny joke i just think it's funny that character is basically her being like here's all the shit i'm not interested in with vampire yeah yeah and let me hear you come one character and have someone very charismaticly play the most annoying guy in the most very typically annoying vampirey guy it's like it says jusy on her bot and i am going to take her out her ward and he's got the like nasa raw to teeth that don't look cool my roommate was like why does he have gopher teeth and i was like fuck they are gopher teeth they're really hard to see yeah yeah a little bit of gopher teeth but that um i am sure you have talked um i did listen to your fast times episode with um cinderstar lulakirk while i'm there um but you i'm sure you've talked about many a comedic sexine at this point because hegirling likes those and there are a couple in this one like there's this sort of you know um stacey and uh ritter and dans stevens rolling off the bed and they're levitating kind of deal but then like the absolutely it's not great but it's just pull it off well enough in a way that makes you wish it looked a little better it does actually run me a one of the bits i like in this where she's just like levitating along the street and good he's like oh my god you can't do that she's like it's new york no one gives a shit i will every time that joke is you know could not be more bread and butter classic oh it's new york no one cares it's true every time always funny you were right you were right but that um but the just in kirk scene where he's basically good he's like before i die i'm going to give um Richard Lewis the option of what his wife like what he what he rather his wife become a vampire and live then die as she is going to and he thinks about it for approximately two seconds since yes please and she sends just in kirk in there for to ravish her isn't too it's that's insane i got so drawn out yes it's very and then you know you have a comedic sort of like knocking out of being like it's like all right you are building it once it's like you know does the slicker cross his stomach and is like but i'm like then really who kind of comes out looking unbelievably hot i'm gonna just kind of check my notes that i have from the johnny dangerously episode i'm seeing i still have written here hamanahum no one may we just um reiterate and also did you cluck that um the dress she's in is a redone hospital gown i did yes very well done from ona may on that one fits her like a fucking glove and she brings um you know brings him in and that's the last we see of him but i'm like that's that man part i was like she was like you have to promise to like have her only eat animals and stuff and then she comes out looking like that and like you just made a new segurney like she is not gonna play nice again in the tv version of this there's the stuff deployment like that's not happening i uh as much as i hope and pray this is not the final film she ever makes there is something in how much she brings back so much of her history of heckerlin company players down to like um brine backer uh who's uh rat in fast times being being dead just eating briefly it was nice to see him taylor negron back wallishon back mary lou henner back at least just overstone obviously i don't think here's some johnson's in she feels like she should have been weird in the other way well it definitely feels like a part where she was like i like you should be in it but now she's kind of doing a not good british accent i'm kind of like you didn't because it's clear there's a waste but i'm glad to see you things of she obviously wants wallishon to be Van Helsing and she wants someone maybe comically taller right and then if there's not time to do it and now you need to figure out like who is the woman that wallishon could have made dan steven so it's not here's in johnson i was happy to see her but it was a waste but it was like join a lonely or something but it is a kind of thing where i'm like if heckerlin had kept making movies after that like she would have been in there 100 percent well she maybe she was in like a suburgatory because i know heckerlin went on to do a bunch of suburgatory yes feels like something to carry diaries to do the suburgatory a lot of red oaks yeah yeah yes red oaks um and i feel like there's one of the big girls she did a bunch of episodes on yeah so but yeah but it's definitely she directed the hot girls episode of the office but we're not talking we're not talking about it even uh she did did a quiddy show of course you remember you commissioned that david called royalties that i've heard is good and is still watchable somewhere oh cool i mean that's awesome everything i can mission six red oaks one suburgatory you know rake rake with a stake on a space take out a space uh yeah i i i hope it's not a curtain call but it is notable also because again she didn't have a budget and that they were all like yeah we'll come do it like we'll go to disroyter river absolutely and we'll do it yes for clearly no money um yes 37 days and detroit but you know some new york or some new york question no question and it is often a real atilly's hill of the amaklyn filmography that we keep running up against so she makes movies set in specific cities and is told she cannot film in those places and you have this weird kind of non-specific doubling that is often then married to what is clearly two days of establishing shots that often don't really have the primary actors in them or only have them in one or two this there is like she got her she got her people she did she got enough days of actual actors in front of real new york places to make account to mesh well just to tell you some other things before we move move on to the end of the dance uh first choice versus was michael fiefer make like the script but she said i could never be your vampire cut was uh busy doing dark shadows well well well uh she saw dand stevens in a play with judy dinch called hayfever and uh then she just saw a lot of stuff in england because she was making like an every year woman and like that's where she first noticed him and then down to now be you know helped him be and yes indeed they did shoot in detroit they did shoot on a type i'm just making sure i caught everything here and it was unserious unceremoniously dumped essentially straight to dvd i mean oh d uh vod but it did according to jj it was released just at the amc burbank eight every now oh god you may have gone to a press screen or something to be clear just to tell me story checks out though it does sound right and we wouldn't listen to family a lot at that time but that's not out of the question for sure um i worked up there at the time i worked in a poly with them uh and of course as we noted she'd has done a bunch of uh tv but she's not said that she's not particularly thrilled to making up a sonic tv uh still like writing all the time she's gonna make a she's claimed she's supposed to be opening in the west end this song okay she was doing it off rob way with dove camarind in 2020 and with the whole bit with transfer and then everything shut down right it is now finally opening the west end and as we alluded to earlier it was recently announced that she is executive producing a clueless continuation show for pcock with elit's oversto x but it's actually gonna be written by the gossner all people right it seems like it's a little bit more of a uh john carpenter and she'll be the um i think so right the marker calling a butcher like look three years ago they announced that pcock was developing a clueless reboot that was like fucking clueless where's dale where share is missing and dion has to solve her murder and it was gonna be dark and gritty and like this sounds like a much better user of that but it is like a little bit um it's a it's a slightly damning statement that like any heckling is here regularly doing interviews and talk about how much she wishes you could get to make her stuff and the two things she can do are just circling back to clueless yeah can i do this as the most juice right can i yeah can i get a paycheck for doing something well i think at some point she's just like if you're gonna want to redo this i'd rather be a part of the residuals like i'd rather get the first of course let her have her money i i don't pick grudge elit's still just doing the legacy glig or what was it well no i've seen you know i haven't seen every hacker link but what other ones are new york based uh well the coolest talking but they are all uh it's not really shot in right new york loser is and why you but jon taranto okay i can you're johnny dangerously is new york uh you know good but it's all it's so sound stinky that it doesn't have the same problem so basically clueless and fast times her most famous works are the the la ones i can never be a woman is also of course set in just just a few years and then the european vacation film this might stun you it's actually set all over europe and what is crazy is is that include yeah there's a whole british action and in germany and free business yeah yeah it was a good three years pre-heaven't ever but that film actually like did uh that's filming in five different countries i wasn't nightmare like i'm not mad but it is you watch it you're like holy shit they flew everyone everywhere but it's really interesting that this one you know if it's her last which i hope it's not but it's so much like she's like i want to tell the entire story like not the entire story of new york obviously it wasn't the beginning of new york but she's like i'm going to tell you about how this city has evolved and goody is it's because i feel like so many other vampires will like travel and they'll go into places like i've got everything i need it's very native new yorker we're just like i'm not going to go i got it i saw the shroud's recently which i loved and i think it's already being kind of slept on i misunderstood and i wasn't even sure i'm sorry i like the themes a lot i think i just not not find it to be the most involving movie i like the i like the i like the term i sound very funny sure but it's kind of funny um it is to me a perfect example i wanted to defend it because i love him and i i look at the very interesting he is so important to me uh i don't think it's anywhere near his top tier of films and yeah i walked out of it and said that's kind of a perfect film if we're unlucky enough that he never gets to make another one and it feels in a way somewhat advanced and some other filmmakers where they're just sort of like it has been getting harder and harder for me to get stuff made and i have to make every movie with the awareness that this might be my final statement and vamps does feel like she's just putting so much in it not pessimistically but just being like who knows right it's kind of like her final statement on new york on youth culture on like relationships on motherhood like all these things i like crimes of future a lot more as a movie but i think the shrouds is a very interesting kuda i agree with you i agree with you i just which i feel um i i'm putting in the same category where it's like it's not her best movie but if it sadly has to be kurkota in future films it is a pretty good one i think when konoburk movies are mega chatty it can be a problem i guess it's my take i would say that my read is in that film it is a form of knowing self-parity i think he is mocking his own critics analysis of his movies being cold and analytical about very emotional things sure that was my read i will say i also saw the night talk in a row with five people who were committed to watching it as if they were doing a riftracks commentary oh how fun i thought they were mocking it and i almost went full joker mode i would go a little joker mode i did turn to this one moment at one point and go with like the intensity of a thousand burnings on sure she was freaked out you may be right because you right you started high yes right but vincetel took his shirt off in a scene of mourning and she went yas yas and i was like i can tell i mean that is objectively hilarious that someone said yas during the show coming off of 45 minutes of a fucking meditation on death when it kept being like um what like just doing this sort of performative laughing at like what who talks like this just saw mens and cassell and she flashed back this really to him in oceans 12 with his sopans very low i was all four which is the only proper sponsor i was all for her thirsting after fencing itself i felt like it wasn't done mocking in there it felt like she was mocking the idea of thirsting after him and i was like that's not except he is hot and this movie knows it's funny and stop acting like you're smarter than that anyway the film vamps left by amy you got it done can we talk about the end it sure the ending is lovely i mean it's exactly what you want it to be i guess it's the best way for me to put it um very good guy going to time so once again it's great it's not actually the third of the world is the best she said the center of things i don't know did you read um look if you want to see 2010 Broadway musical billboards watch the last you know vamps it's kind of awesome like why not drop the dark she captured it i forgot about the women on the verge of a nerve is breakdown musical right the cenatra jukebox musical there's so much interesting stardom's family yeah you know but it's just like she they kill scorny weaver they kill scorny weaver in this very like it's almost like the mummy return of the dragon emperor level graphics but you know very you know she comes out of the tomb with the saber and she's a skeleton and she's singing my eyes have seen the coming of the glory of the lord i fully like that was the funniest it was so funny here's one i'll say about that as well it was still would let me add her it's gorgi with the fucking skeleton it was really really body i take my chances yeah but they don't they don't they kill her and you have this very good gag that once again you're just like fuck if she had a little more resources this would be impeccable where christin ridder immediately in a series of three shots her book gets a little flatter a little flatter the lighting changes on her and there's oh and her arms start sagging right i mean it's like two wrinkles but it's like pretty well done because it's like she doesn't it's just enough it's just enough where you're like i was i stayed out of the sun and i didn't drink where smoke so good for me right and that worked for me yeah it's a good joke uh looks over to lisa selterstone who is in not the world's best old age makeup i wouldn't say so no immediately clocks you've been lying to me about your age they bring up the history channel thing and like are you gonna stop aging now and no lisa selterstone gives the knowing look of just like this is just gonna advance like you know clock is ticking until i decay i don't want to die here i want to go to the center where everything happens and they go to times square and she like looks around at the world's grace but boards and flashes back to like the history of new york city she gets a pretzel which i'm sad for her for i wanted to get a hot dog but she pretzel's not that good but she doesn't know that she doesn't know that's that you get mustard what doesn't look in her dry um it's genuinely for a cool dc to wash it down but it's but it is a really you know for as bad as the wig is or as fine as the dust effect is the music i don't remember the song is but the song and her flashing back to like you know all her stuff and her kids and everything and fucking got me and also cut her like not just her own personal memories but like everything she's lived just yeah i don't know i felt very i felt very touched and then you know obviously and one of the reasons they say so sad because she's like now you'll never meet my baby and we'll never you won't raise this baby with me and they hold hands and it's just a very lovely friendship moment and i will say an impressively straight vampire movie that i don't hold it against it yeah which is saying something yeah no there's never that no but i wouldn't expect heckling to do that honestly but it's a very it is you know not only do they never have a little moment but she gets pregnant it's like very straight but it is lovely oh fucking dancing is like anyone pregnant you promised um it's it's kind of a knockout in there and it's one of those things i'm like it was it was it was you know timesquare is timesquare but i think there's a new times profile of cackling i'm sure you've referenced where it's like you know she's making the coolest musical but she timesquare is like one of her first memories like coming out of the subway and a stroller she's like and there was timesquare and it looked like that and so for her to have this relationship with timesquare where she's like this was where every like she described it as like the center of things like this is like she's she was like everything is here and so for that there's like such you know there's always an animal like obviously many of these films are personal but this is such a personal moment and it's bittersweet because goodie seems to have accepted it and she's happy about it i am not convinced cackling is being like and now i'm irrelevant and i'm going to die i have always had a real similar affection and obsession with timesquare as a lifelong new yorker uh from how like overstimulating and exciting was to me as a child to even now when every other new yorker i know is just like why would you ever go there by choice i have always found it weirdly relaxing and serene to just submit myself to the chaos of timesquare and stay in the middle and they were just wander around where i went the night after prom like with my friends from jersey we went to timesquare and i was like this is this is the cool like this is the busiest most not new jersey thing we could do right now is go to timesquare and get to seaside heights oh i mean that's good too i mean that's the most jersey thing that is the most jersey thing you could do yes i went the other way but it is so insufferable and annoying and impossible to navigate and yet when i am there i do feel like the way this character feels right this is the center of the world no interesting i am almost always like kidding me i'm presenting myself as the weirdo in the freak and i in watching these movies and reading all the heckling interviews and living with her for the last couple months of we have in our head uh i'm just like i'm really just kind of on her wavelength and i found myself defending a lot lot of movies that people don't like as much that just kind of work for me and i just feel like i have a very similar outlook on a lot of things to her um and uh yeah it's it's like in watching this movie it does feel like the ending is her sort of being like has my time passed which globally then just her and her career also feels like this is kind of acknowledging the end of a type of movie that doesn't get made anymore and the last two films she made were basically made past like on borrowed time right like the studios are no longer making these so now you have to like scrape and scavenge and pull together the one-kiest version of this thing i think two is that she did have to scrape and scavenge with us but she did get to do timesquare yeah for one night she got timesquare she like had her three main actors in the middle of timesquare there's like triumphs in this movie that really got to me i still think it is like on-hole a good movie that i enjoy quite a bit it is frustrating as we said bitter sweet that it is not like a triumph which it should be but i feel like i dealt with a lot of the i'm really glad that i watched i can never be a woman before this because i feel like that one was so close to her experience that i feel like it was i mean you've talked about it i won't do it but i do feel like this movie i felt like dealt with a lot of the same themes better because she could take a slight step back it's actually like watching i was like i'm actually surprised to keep this long to get to vampires like they're so up the street of everything you want to talk about that i feel like this one she did get to something there uh can i read uh an extended quote that i found David David we're saying goodbye to Amy Hackerland enough we're saying goodbye to Amy Hackerland yes i need like 20 of them come on what's the quote come on our friend Hilary wesson friend of the podcast criteria and interview with Amy Hackerland i think around the time that the fast times release was coming out uh and she was talking about where clueless came from these quotes that we've sort of talked about before the projection of the optimist right and she's talking about how much she admires the idea of the optimist and running the world and like putting the shine on them and then she just says also a real full of optimist wouldn't be a good idea because what if we all went hog global warming it will be fine we need pessimists you can't just say oh here's this thing i made it's great although a lot of people that are creative have that they go i'm doing this and i'm doing that and they think everything they do is great and then there are people who say you know this has been done before and here's all the ways it could stink and then you can't write one word without thinking about how bad it could be based on how people could react how other ways have fallen flat and then she basically immediately dunks on life is beautiful in the David Cline Cride um but i just think that sort of encapsulates the like essential tension between the two sides of Amy Hackerland in her work that is often represented but also i think what must feel frustrating to her in trying to get stuff made because there was a point in time where the industry went like you got it we want whatever you're selling and that self-doubt she had was conquered by people begging her to come in and i i think in that near times where she talks about writing all the time and it's similar thing with her having vamps on her shelf for years before she finally got it made i think she is very self-defeating if people are not banging down her door asking what she has what's the bummer she made clueless though yeah she made me fucking cool many great films that we don't discuss that enough that in fact you have never directed clueless in that sense you're destroying a fucking failure uh no i didn't try didn't even try didn't even get off the couch and try cowardly yeah i think so yeah uh we have not watched her donor loser episode at the time of this recording so we're now going to place in the audio of the rankings that we will record after the fact of her entire career okay this is Griffin David zoom in from the future heckerling rankings here we go david you want to go first number one clueless weird surprising number two fast times originally on high okay normal so far number three lokus talking i have it over johnny dangerously and vampson fifth okay and i could never be your woman in six wow and lehooza her in seven okay you're a vacation in eighth lokus talking to bring it up the rear that's maybe the rudest thing you've ever done in a ranking what mr toilet man alone you're so better than the lowest you're like how could you say that but look who's talking to and i'm like what and you're like mr toilet man but then you don't have anything else that movie is like the holy mountain it's like deranged like fever dream images okay here's my ranking okay you might be surprised to hear we have this thing top five just in a slightly different order i figured that's basically the argument right so i fast times at number one i love yeah that's like yeah clueless number two giant dangerously number three lokus talking at number four vampson five the number six exactly where it belongs lokus talking to jesus number seven national opinions european vacation whoa number eight lokus or her okay number nine i can never be your woman how piper yeah dude you remember that watching that movie feels like staring into the sun it's like i think it has things in it i like exactly there is no movie she's made that i dislike holistically i would say there's one for me which is a little you're like calling by referring to it as a film with mr toilet man you're proving your entire thesis wrong he eats poo poo and pee pee and he's voiced by felt rocks okay anyway that's our ranking is blue ben's ranking is lokus talking now ten times even though she didn't direct that it's fun okay and there's animals and they talk it it has talking dogs okay back to the episode we've done this box office game before we have we've done it twice it's amazing that there is a box office game well that's the thing it's sort of a nominal box office game but number one is animated film that ben loves it's an animated film that we covered it is called wreck it route correct new this week so ben was wrecking it i know you actually first was that we're gonna play or something but you were let's think of you right i didn't end up seeing it you said you don't remember much but you wrecked it number two is a box office at the box office is a uh serious sort of big scalish drama i got a couple of nominations also knew this week and we've also covered it on the show we've also covered it on the show we've also covered it on the show in the year 2012 it is not a finture doo doo doo it's not only um it is not a demi it's not a minor it's not it's not Spielberg hmm it's not a crow no remember second 2012 on a camera it's not a lot so it's not a crumble on david spinning in his file can be really fast um give me a series aspar film got a couple nominations tell me some of the nominations got best actor take out best actor yes i could have one if this guy had an already one Oscar to invest original screenplay a best actor and best original screenplay and this person already won two Oscars you sure had it's not it's not It is a dense old flight. That's right.

There we go. Now number three the box office wins my picture for 2012 Mm-hmm, and what is that it is the artist? Oh? It's what are you saying?

I'm right? No, we're not sure. It's 2012. That's the year before artists is twenty love Okay, so 2012 the best picture winner was our go fuck yourself.

There you go. Now number four We just had to get to four I believe has really befuddled you both times Hmm. I think both box times we played this box office game you took several I'm not swings at this challenge is it is an action film it is directed by a first-time director who's better known as a musician Oh fuck the problem is I know exactly what this movie is and I always get the wording of the title Do is it called the man with the golden fist you always say that and always fuck what material iron there? You go there's one episode.

I think we're like bronze press So like it takes you way too long to get hired. Yes, there is a fight. Yes. There is a large Large film.

I believe so. Yeah despite men's love of Netflix's iron fist of course number five of the box office is an action sequel It's an action sequel. It's number two. It's a number two.

Is it a TOO to accurately style? No, it's not It's actually sequel to do to keep going after this. We're seeing the road. It kept going There's a sexy voice well.

I'm doing the guy always do it's not drama chapter two is oh But the guys got a seat for this guy's there, okay, okay, and it's not a lot there and it's not safe I'm no older older who's old who's old still own now younger? Well, I'm gonna be younger It's not Ford and it's not Eastwood. No, but he's mostly an action guy later in my phone me. Oh I didn't want to do the accent of course.

This is taken to that's right. Yeah, I'm moving I often say it's one of the best set up severing love this set up for them. It's very very bad Really bad I don't really lose her and one. I think taking one is massively overrated It has the niece and juice and like it's kind of something you know what I'm gonna say the thing It's a perfect cultural object is not good movie But it's a perfect cultural object and to his No, because like what they then figured out is like oh, you can just do this kind of right It doesn't have to be in the taken right and I think it has no hook.

Yeah, it's just sort of like right back No, I think no, it's okay. It's okay. I think you I feel like they should have played around with the titling a little bit more I can take in oh sure sure that's about it. Well, hold on given back.

That's what we should be called given back Yeah, we're doing Bits and then goes hold on Number six is cloud Atlas we've covered number seven is I'm saying rag out Ralph and flight are both new got it on our six is called Atlas number seven is hotel, Pennsylvania There we go number eight is paranormal activity for the one with the Xbox number three Four is not the best for us not to be the worst one. Yeah for a number nine is here comes the boom of course What if we remade warrior one year later with Kevin James and number ten is the Absolutely, defensible silent hill revelation sure now David three What do you do me a kindness? What do you just I just for my own joy remind me what the numbers were on Ralph and flight opening weekend? Ralph was forty nine million dollars in flight was 24.9.

Yeah, I remember feeling the Ralph opening was lower than I expected I had a long tail. So this is November 2nd November 2nd. Can't even give Vamp's like a real Halloween It's close you know what you know Caroline you're right But maybe a really good one would have been brighter at least put it out before we instead of two days after Halloween we have done week before box office which because it is cloud out was this first week, okay? Yeah, well, it just it could have been vamps.

It could have been vamps I hope you watch this movie. I hope if you thought this is one you could skip and just listen to the episode I will say the time of recording this it is on all of America's most free stream services. It is on to be it is on Pluto It is on fly. It's on all this thing is to be you can watch it on plex with ads.

It's every way and do please I think it's quite a good song next up on our Podcasts the conbrothers surprise no big surprise I keep asking people like being asked by people what spoilers like what's the rest of the year? And I remind them calling brothers one and they made 20 movies a lot of their movies. Yeah Congratulations, that's the rest of the year along with new release films. Oh and David's wearing his congratulations sure Carolyn Thank you so much for coming back to show far too long.

We'll have you on again sooner. Hey, you want to do both simple just come back Next week just keep this going keep this going keep this going Anything you want to plug? Not really I hope I have more stuff to plug by tennis comes out I just want to issue a quick apology for anyone who is at a 2016 Show at little field okay that um had 12 of us including mother of like in Lelandeoshita Taking a track for each Carly Rae Jepsen song on the hit album emotion Which featured me I had taken the song warm blood and I decided to give a little PowerPoint presentation unless we vampires I did get very nervous and too drunk and I can't imagine that was good also I did take that song away from the very wonderful award-winning National treasure writer honey vidric you wanted warm blood and whatever he tells the story about that night He talks about how he didn't get warm blood and he wanted it What do you got I don't remember the song? I really like you and he put up and the reason why he talks about this is because he put up a Screen that just that tells them when you love them tonight And he just talked as he can and just get a wonderful moving meaningful speech about telling people you love them And people talk about it all the time and I'm complaining then he got one But he always talked about how he didn't get warm blood and that's because it was me talking about it's gonna be a great Opportunity a great forum to apologize for that because I feel like there are some people listening to that Emily did the LA hallucination Song I'm gonna give another example of asking someone if anything they want to plug instead they offer an apology for a thing that happened nine years ago Yeah, you remember I assume no offense to that I don't have any of those powerpoint I'm sure I do I think it's probably on lens where I have a shirt I got my money, but anyway, I just felt like you know in honor of amps you're the best wheel you big time Yep, David is done just fucking and dropping a celebratory do say the episode and disrespectful to Amy I agree we gave him air conditioning and sour patch kids We let him go hog while this episode and this is how he repays us God those sour patch kids hit I'm saying this is I had them for a reason I managed to do it.

Yeah, I have to go get a bag for myself lemonade sour pet kids They have apple flavors in the fall look about her try the only time I've ever ordered it snacks off Amazon special to you sour patch kids get into them Okay, okay, not sponsored. That's a good plug. Yeah. Thank you for being here.

You're so welcome It's such a pleasure. Thank you over listening. Please remember to rate review subscribe and tune in next week for blood simple The start of the cone brothers filmographies and as always canonically and he's not allowed to say anything against this because he waived that right David is currently taking the world sloppy a ship That's how he ended the episode and if he disagrees then here's his chance to offer a rebuttal Blank check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims Our executive producer is me Ben Hossley our creative producer is Marie Bartis Salinas and our associate producers AJ McKian This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKian and Alan Smithy research by JJ Burch Our theme song is by lame Montgomery in the great American novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell artwork by Joe Bowen Olimos and Pat Reynolds our production assistant is Minick special thanks to David Cho Jordan fish and Nate Patterson for their production help Head over to blank check pod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit join our patreon blank check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes follow us on social at blank check pod subscribe to our weekly newsletter checkbook on sub stack this podcast is created and produced by blank check productions