Villisca Axe Murders

and the dead of night as people sleep. That's when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three, dark things take power. We like to call it the supernatural hour.

It's insane. Busy is an understatement. Drinking from the fire hose. That sounds like fun.

I wouldn't recommend it. Well, we are glad to have you back. Thanks. It was good to be back.

So do you want to tell people what you've been working on? I've been I went to a coding boot camp for a while. That's on pause right now because of COVID. But I'm kind of a web developer.

But in the meantime, I do a lot of freelance artwork. I work for a couple of different companies. Tops is one of them. They do a lot of baseball training cards.

They own the properties to garbage pill kids. They work with Lucasfilm to do Star Wars cards. I do sketch cards, which are randomly inserted into packs for both Star Wars and garbage pill kids. I just wrapped up 60 cards for Star Wars for Holochrome.

That's coming out later this year. And I'm currently working on the garbage pill kid 35th anniversary set, doing about 100 cards of different sizes and shapes. And those will be doing about three or four weeks. And that's going to be coming out mid September, I believe.

So a lot of work that I've been doing, a lot of artwork, other than those companies I have commissioned me for private artwork as well. I have other companies I'm doing workforce. So I am definitely staying very, very busy. It's like a full time job, pretty much just drawing a day.

So if you enjoy it, then it's good. If you don't follow my Facebook or if you haven't seen any of those articles, it's absolutely amazing. If you're on Instagram, go to not the droids 1976 or on Facebook, Stimu Kill, STIMU KILL, Stimu Kill Designs, and that has all my artwork. So check out.

I have one or maybe even two originals that I'm pretty proud of. Dude, it's weird because I look back at stuff that I did even just a couple months ago. And I feel like I've leveled up since then. I look at stuff that I did two years ago when I first started getting back into drawing again.

And I've just I've grown exponentially as an artist and I've gotten so much better, especially with like photorealism. It's just something that like anything else, you got to practice and be persistent and patient and eventually you get better. Like learning an instrument or doing anything in life, it just takes patience and perseverance. And it's really cool to be able to see these noticeable improvements over the last few months and years.

Oh, very cool. Well, we're glad you're back. Thank you. Welcome.

So do we have any business? Other than going to advancedparanormal.com, check the merchandise tab and check out the awesome merchandise that we have for sale. Buy our t-shirts, buy our tote bags, buy our tapestries, buy stuff and give somebody money. Yes.

And if you are like me and you prefer v-neck t-shirts, they are not v-neck t-shirts available there now, but I want one. So I'm working on getting it up there. So hopefully that will be up there soon. I know they do have like women's tiktops and razorbacks and stuff like that.

You know what the difference between those are? I do. Power to you. But yeah, I guess there are no v-necks.

We do have a lot of other cool stuff. There's travel mugs. There's tumblers. We have the coffee thermostat.

Not thermostat. Probably thermostat for your home. Yeah. Insulated beverage holders.

Insulated beverage holders. Thank you. No, there's a lot of cool stuff on there. I'll get those v-necks up there soon because that's what I want.

Is a v-neck. Alrighty. So no, but we have had, and we don't really have anything as far as public events yet. We will do something where we're trying to space those out a little bit because we were trying to be COVID sensitive and friendly and respectful.

So we will have something coming up soon. But we did have a residential last week. Do you tell? So this was actually one of our listeners.

It's come on a few investigations with this. It's super nice and like cutest little dogs you've ever seen. Like, fluff balls. And then there's this little one that's just like, I was trying to eat you.

But it was like the size of a Q-tip. It was adorable. Like, yeah, you can get an even Q-tip. Like, Yorkie puppies.

They were adorable. So anyway, so they didn't really have anything bad going on in the home. They thought they might have some family members. Most of the people in the home are sensitive.

And so, you know, they just sense things. If I remember right, they did see a few shadow people, you know, things I could have the strong. If I did, and you're listening, I'm super sorry I'm getting this to be wrong. But they pretty much just kind of wanted to see who was there and why they were there.

And one of the individuals in the home is she does what did they call it? Kind of a white witchcraft sort of a, they had a specific word. No, I feel bad that I don't remember what this is called. But very specific.

She does witchcraft, but she's more into the stones and the herbs and the very natural. A lot of physical? That's what all that is. The word that they used I've never heard before, but it was really cool.

But it was just very, very nature-based, very stones. And so she's been kind of getting into that and she's really enjoying it. And it's doing well. Well, one of the spirits in the home was her grandmother, her great-grandmother.

And great-grandmother. And great-grandmother was more religious and she wasn't too excited about this. But after talking with her a little bit, we decided that even though great-grandma didn't really prove she was okay with it because everything was as long as she does things for, you know, to be light and happy. The other thing we found in there was an air elemental.

And the air elemental was drawn to this practice that this family member was doing. You know, interested in it, this elemental wasn't really causing any problems, you know, just kind of existing there. It was, it's a positive elemental and the thing with the elementals that you need to be careful is most of the time they can be playful, but when they turn they can get really ugly. So we did tell the family, you know, as long as everything is happy and positive in the house, you should be okay.

But there is that possibility that the salimental could turn and be nasty. So they are kind of watching for that. I think there's a little portal that we closed and other than that. It was just kind of fun to get out and very positive experience.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. We're just kind of set and just talked with the family for a long time afterwards because they were just interested. So there's that. So now after the last episode, I mentioned I was on my way to actually go do a follow-up investigation with somebody.

I just wanted to touch on that just a little bit. A lot of the stuff that we did that particular night was very personal. So I can't go into a lot of details of what happened specifically, but we did go back. We did some more energy work with the dad and his daughter was there this time.

She was there last time. We got to know her a little bit. We kind of gave her some guidance. She's actually very gifted, very gifted individual.

And we gave her some resources to kind of learn how to develop those gifts and how to use them in a positive way. And she was very receptive to what we had to tell her. I actually taught her how to charge and put intentions into crystals and showed a little bit about crystal energy healing. We were doing some energy work with her dad.

We actually let her participate in the energy work and kind of just taught her some basics real quick. Just to kind of give her a little bit of experience about what it is that we actually do. But we did some more energy work with like I said with both of them, we were able to go through. We saved the house once more.

We just managed to work in the house. I had our investigators mark and Mike with us. They went through and blessed each room with the house and did a blessing on the home. There was still some residual energy in the home from what was going on before.

And it's one of those things where and we've had several cases like this where there's just there's so much stuff that goes on in the personal life that needs to be worked on. And we kind of gave them the tools and the guidance to kind of move forward because a lot of times people they get so used to having the stuff in their life. It's you know, having spirits in their home for so many years. It's kind of hard for them to imagine what life is like without it.

And we've talked about this with when John Zafus was on the show. That it's there for so long. It almost becomes a part of them. And when you get rid of that, they feel like they've lost part of themselves.

And it's like they don't know who they are. So we just kind of gave them the tools to help rebuild from this experience and come out happier than what they were when they were living with it and how to kind of redefine who they are without this negative influence in their lives. So like a lot of stuff that we did was kind of, it was a lot of personal information that went on between us and the homeowners daughter. But we did, we were able to help them out for the most part.

There's still a lot of work that needs to be done there. But as long as they use the tools that we gave them and always ask for help whenever you need it, just know that you've got teams like us out there for you. And this is just everybody in general, not just this particular family, but you also have the amazing team of Bay River Paranormal up in the Logan Southern Idaho area. They also have done investigations here in the valley as well.

I know they were the ones that originally helped this guy about three years ago. But I mentioned some of the teams last podcast as well, but just know that there are people that can actually help you and care about you and your well-being. So we do our best, but we like to remind people that a lot of what we do is just kind of we open the door for you, so to speak on how to kind of cope with and move on from these negative experiences. And not everything we do is clear negative.

A lot of people have like you mentioned family members that are there and they just want to communicate with the family members that are there and kind of know what's going on. So not every haunting is a negative experience, but for the one that deals with negative stuff, there's just so much personal work that you have to do on your own to continue keeping that positive flow. And it's not always easy just because you're basically changing habits. You're changing the way things have been in your life for you know, how many years have you been dealing with this?

Right. And if you think about it, it's like changing your diet or maybe a new job or there's a lot of different things on life that's hard. And this is just another one thing that can be hard and it takes work. But like we said earlier, the more you do it, the easier it gets and the better it gets.

So do we have any other reason or else it just those two? I believe that was it. And I did forget one little bit as I'm thinking about it more is coming back to me. They actually had an Native American spirit that was in the backyard.

And as being from this area, we actually run into quite a few Native American spirits. And for the most part, they tend to be a little serious. I'm very concerned about the integrity of the land and what was on the land. And this was no exception.

He was a little more stoic. And he was a little concerned about some of the tension in the house between great grandma's spirit and the elemental and the person in the home that's involved in her craft. But when we kind of resolved that, he was like, okay, you know, I'm pretty chill. Also, there was a woman and a child's, who's the type one spirit in the home.

And they wanted to cross over. So we got those, the woman and the first son, we got them crossed over. They were a little intimidated by the Native American spirit, but we got them all sorted out. So I was worried about that a bit.

So that's cool. We had Dave with us and he'd never been to that part of you to get into before. So I just wanted to give a quick update about a previous episode we've done. It's one I did with Castle and Mike.

We talked about Bobby Mackeys. And we actually have some friends with Bear River Paranormal that recently visited Bobby Mackeys. And then all the research that we did, every website that we looked at and documentaries and all that, all stated that at one point in the land where the building itself was used in the slaughterhouse. And there were some stories that went along with that.

Now, from what I was told, they had actually asked one of the employees at Bobby Mackeys that runs the ghost stores about that. And according to them, the people of Bobby Mackeys, that that part of the slaughterhouse part was actually made up. And it was never actually a slaughterhouse. But at one point, it was a distillery according to them.

What's true, I don't know, but I'm going to kind of lean towards the people that actually work there and live in the area. So if we did give misinformation, it was an intentional, it's just what everything online and everything in our research showed. So Bobby Mackeys, that's in Kentucky or Tennessee, I believe it's in Kentucky, it's about an hour north of Waver Leals. That would make sense for it to be a distillery.

I mean, moonshine, everyone in the dog probably distills out there. How does it do? You know, the home of bourbon. Yeah, so it's it's more likely that it was like you said a distillery than an actual slaughterhouse.

But you know, it could be wrong. But it's a slaughterhouse too. I mean, the stories were fascinating that went along with the slaughterhouse. I think it just kind of adds to the mystery of what happened to Bobby Mackeys in that that area.

I mean, in and of itself, just what happens now on the paranormal at Bobby Mackeys is cool. I mean, regardless what it was before, there's some pretty accurate. So yeah, I just wanted to give a shout out to Dave from Bare River Paranormal for providing me that with that information. So I think with that, let's jump right into our topic this week.

And we're going to be talking about the Voliska Axmutter House. This is a house that is located in Voliska, Iowa. This is the south eastern, the southwest part of the state. Yeah.

And you've never seen this house before? It just is a cute little white picket to a story, turn of the century. I mean, what's like a dollhouse? It's a cute little house.

So before we get too much into this, I did want to mention real quick at the beginning of this, I was actually watching an episode of Gosh Adventures where they were at the Voliska Axmutter House about a month ago. And I was over at Peach's house. And she had gone to get ready for bed and came back in and I was watching it. And she's like, oh, it's this.

And I told her like, oh, it's this house. Or no, I think I told her about it before I came and I told her about it. I showed her a picture of it. And she's like, what is this?

And she started telling me all the emotions that she was feeling from this picture from the house. She was telling me that there was a lot of sadness and anger and like she knew nothing about this house. She never even heard of it. And she's like, there was murders that happened there.

And she's like, something to do with an axe. And I just started laughing. And she's like, what? I'm like, this is called the Voliska Axmutter House.

There was several people that are murdered with an axe. And she got all this just by looking at the picture. Like, she never even heard of it. I think that's what got me to show her the episode of the Ghost of Andrews.

I would love to watch some paranormal TV shows with her because we know that she can see things both in photographs and video that we can't see. She's a medium. She can see spirits and see entities in real life as if I'm talking to you right now. But that's got to be really kind of, I don't know if it'd be unnerving or exciting to be able to see those things.

I'm sure she probably gets so tired of it. She is very tired of it. She's actually seriously considering finding a way to kind of just temporarily show off her guests and just be an older person for a while. She does have the magic chair.

She wants to figure out how to do that on a more permanent basis without the chair. But like something that she could eventually turn back on if she wanted. So she's trying to figure out how to find that light switch. Just because when you have gifts like that, it can be very overwhelming and very draining on an individual.

And you're constantly seeing people's auras in their energy. And you're always seeing spirits and spirits can tell that you can see them so they want to talk to you. And it's just she sometimes feels like she doesn't have a normal private life because this is always going on for her 24-7. Yeah, I can imagine.

Constant innovation of privacy and not being able to do anything without other things watching you and wanting to bug you. And yeah, that would get very tiring very quickly. It's a lot like kids. Simple tasks like going to the grocery store can be very tiresome for her just because there might be a random spirit that's just like, hey, I need help.

Just like I'm shopping, let me go. So yeah, I just thought I was going to mention that she was able to give me information about this house and how the people actually died in the house without actually knowing anything about it just by seeing a pitcher of the house. That's crazy. So I know that this town, Vieliska at the time only had about 2,500 people in it.

It wasn't a very big town, but it was very prosperous as well. It was in the early 20s wasn't it? 1912 actually. So this actually happened 108 years ago.

And one of the things about this and why we're talking about this is there is paranormal involved in this. We'll get that a little bit later. But this happened 108 years ago and they still have no idea who did it, why they did it, or how, I mean, you know, how what that weapon was used, but how they got away with it and you know, no one caught them. It was a very violent crime.

It was a family of six, a mother and a father and their four children. And they also had two children that were sleeping over that night. And it was just a heinous crime. They had, I think about half dozen suspects, but one of them was Tried twice without being found guilty.

One of them was quitted and they believed that the real murderer was never caught. There was a book that was written about it just a few years ago. And during the research, the father and daughter team that were writing the book, they came up with a theory that was a certain person. I want to say his name was Mueller or Miller, a German descendant.

And he was known for possibly doing other murders. So it was a serial crime and they never found him. No, I think it's the most sad. You know, you said it was another father and their four children, six children.

And then they had actually been at a church at a church function. And these two, the two friends told, told the family friend, they said, can we come home with you because we were too scared to walk home? And I thought, I mean, the whole thing is sad, but it's like if you had just not been scared, and I get it, kids get scared. So I'm not blaming them anyway.

But it's like if they had just gone home, they would they wouldn't have been there. It would have been slaughtered. Wrong place, wrong time. Yeah.

And it's like, no, you went to the scariest place you could have gone that night. I mean, they had no way of not blaming them. But it's just to me, it's extra sad. One of the one of the comments I didn't even rush to, one of the girls that was sleeping over the night, I forget her name, she was 12 years old.

And everyone was killed in basically the same way that this 12 year old suspected that she woke up because she had defensive wounds on her arm. But then she was also found spread crosswise across the bed. And her underwear had been removed and her dress had been hiked up. So not only did this, this perpetrator kill an entire family with an axe, but then he also sexually molested a 12 year old girl.

And she the one that they said, because everyone was just kind of how they were, but she was one that was kind of posed. She was the one that was kind of posed. Yeah, the father, he was killed with the sharpened edge of the axe. And everyone else was used with the blunt end of the backside of the axe, blood trauma to the head and expected all of them were sleeping.

He killed the mother and father first, and then he went and killed all the kids. But this 12 year old girl, they suspect that she was the last one to kill. And she was molested first before the life of state. So the family members, the people that we have, the father, his name was Josiah Moore, his wife, was Sarah.

There were four children. You had the oldest was Herman. He was 11 years old at the time of his death. Then you had Catherine, who was 10 years old.

And then you had Boyden Paul, who were seven of five. And then the sisters that stayed over the friends, they were friends of Catherine. Their names were Lena Stilinger and Ina May Stilinger. Now Lena was the 12 year old.

Lena was the one that was positioned differently, the one that you said that they thought that she might have actually woken up during the attacks. Now the corners that had actually done examination and they determined that she wasn't sexually molested. But I would say the fact that her dress was kind of pulled up in her underwear or across her own, chances are she probably was. But so she was 12 and the younger sister was seven.

And like Dan said, they were all coming home from a church function. They were afraid to walk home. So their friend Catherine was just like, why don't you just spend the night with us. And one of the weird things that you notice about what this happened is, yeah, they're all bludgeoned to death, except the father.

And from what I've read and understand is after he ended up killing everybody, he went back and took the axe and just hacked away at the faces of the mother and the father. Yes. I heard they read and researched and listened to the father was the most attack, the most informed, you know, he was the one that was the most unrecognizable. And if I remember right, they said that the guy that did it swung the axe so hard that there were actually axe marks in the ceiling with axe.

Blood splatters. Blood splatters. Well, there was dust and stuff from where the axe had hit the ceiling on the beds. That's what helped them determine that that those those the damage to the roof or the ceiling was done during the murders because there was actually like sawdust or whatever from the ceiling on the beds.

And I mean, it makes sense because he's using the blunt end of the sharp end to the ceiling. So he's literally cutting and he was just widely swinging. I wasn't like a calculated attack. He just went in and just started randomly swinging and hitting people in the heads.

And there's some theories as to why none of the family woke up except for me, the girl that there's one of the theories is that he actually put some sort of sedative or drug their food when they came home and that kind of put them all to sleep. But some of the other theories is because he hit them so hard the first time with that blunt end of the axe and it just instantly killed them. And obviously, like if you're instantly dead, you're not gonna wake up when you're being attacked. One of the other strange things that I read was they found an extra one of the bodies or next to the axe because he just left the axe sitting propped up on the wall.

They found a four pound slab of bacon. There's two theories as to why one is that he was gonna steal the bacon and take it for food. The other theory that I heard was that he was using it as a makeshift female private parts and was doing inappropriate stuff with it, although no evidence of bodily fluids or hair was found on the bacon. So they're not exactly sure why that bacon was there, but those are some of the theories.

Right, and one of the things that I heard was he they found food on the table, but just one plate of food. So they don't know if he had made a meal for himself or whose way of him to get home, or when they found the axe, he said it was partially cleaned off. So then they found a pot of water, a bloody water. So I could start to clean it off and then think, and ask for it, then it's set out and made a meal.

They're not sure when that meal happened or why he only partially cleaned the axe off and why there was a bloody bowl of water, I think they'd call it a pan of water. But there's a lot of really weird things going on that we just never had. All of those things just point at a deep psychosis, a deep mental trouble because I mean it's one thing to kill someone in a passion, you know, heat of the moment, you know, rage to take someone's life, but this was this was almost plotted. It was something where he snuck into their house perhaps in the middle of the night, killed an entire family, not just the adults, but also children and the youngest, I think was five.

That's something that's very cool blooded to not just kill adults, but to kill children as well. There's, you know, suspicions of mental of molestation as well for pre-pubescent girl and then what you said to him with like the bacon where he was maybe using that for inappropriate things as well. I mean, all these things just point at this deep psychosis of mental, you know, mental health. Yeah.

And there's so many terrible things. I mean, the way they were found, I mean, it's in the early 1900s, you know, back then, you know, it's farmland, in that far the area is probably still farmland and people would get up early and they'd come up and they're chores with a neighbor woman. Notice that they weren't up and out. At 7 a.m.

She got suspicious because at 7 a.m. Right. They were not. It was just they started 7 a.m.

for them. They know that no one was up and so she went and let the chickens out and then it was 7 a.m. Like I said, she's like, well, they're not outside doing the normal daily chores. It's just a sign of the times how things have changed.

You get up at sunrise, you go to bed at desk at sunset and you sleep. Because I'm like, oh, I can sleep for the camera hour. But I guess 7 a.m. back then was sleeping in and being lazy.

Especially if you live on a farm, you got cows and livestock to tend to you, you got chickens to let out and gather vegetables and fruits and whatnot. So I think she tried the doors and it was locked and she was able to get ahold of one of the parents brothers. The dad's brother. I think his name was Roger Moore, but that's a dude that was in James Bond.

Yeah, they got ahold of his brothers and he came over and checked the doors. All the doors were locked from the inside and Ross Moore. Thank you. Just say it's more.

Just say it's more. Yeah, he I guess he had a spare key and he so use it to themselves. I mean, he pounded and banged on the doors and windows. I thought that was the as a brother the most horrific thing to walk into.

I mean, I don't know that you can recover from that. See your brother and his brother and his family, your entire family, your niece's and nephews slaughtered violently, blood everywhere. No. I mean, we're talking violent, violent crime.

No, tell me if I'm getting a couple things mixed up because this might be something else. But did they find two smokes, cigarettes, upstairs in the attic? Yes, they did. Okay.

No, they did. So that they determined because of that, the person was actually in the house waiting for them to come home. So I mean, this is someone that, like like Lurch said, is very mentally disturbed. The fact that he was able to stay patient for his house, how long?

It's plotted and planned. Yes, he might might feel with everything as I think it was definitely planned. You know, why? I don't know.

But it's me, everything points to, it wasn't just a random thing. So after discovering the bodies, the brother, I believe went to the local hardware store and had them phone the sheriff to let him know what went on. And I know that the sheriff came over and somehow word got out. And news of the murders spread like wildfire, like the 911 operators, even like they opened the circuits or whatever it was called back then.

They just opened it up and they put like a basically put out like an all points bulletin switch board. Yes. They let everybody know in the town like, hey, this family was murdered. And it had kind of a negative effect on well, because people went there and walked through the house and destroyed evidence and just just by being there just contaminating the crime scene.

And I mean, in 1912, they didn't have you know, the wherewithal to, you know, really look for evidence and DNA and they didn't have DNA testing 108 years ago. I know we're so weird. But even if they had, there would have been lots of extra DNA of all the people that got there before the sheriff. And I just think I don't know, it's a sign of the times, but I just don't know that I would go trade to your house to have a good look.

See, well, you know, if that happened, now you wouldn't have to because it would be on Facebook within 10 minutes. And you know, even now, within the last 23 years, I watched some unsolved crime shows recently on Netflix. Now it's just one of those cold case TV shows. And you know, there was a crime that was committed in 1984.

And they couldn't solve it because there was DNA testing that they didn't have the means to do what we can do now. So, you know, eventually the crime was solved. But you know, 100 years ago, all these things were just fantasy. You know, you had no concept of anything, you know, possible remotely possible like this that we can do now with taking a blood sample and leaking it out with another person.

Well, and you would never let's keep this hair just in case we can basically, crazy stuff. Yeah, so with everyone chaping through, they had a hard time, like you all said, collecting evidence. They would get people out of the house, I mean, there's the front door in the back door and they'd finally get people out of the house through one door and more people show up the other door and it was just it was a literal shit show just because like the entire town came and showed up and then. But then rubber neckers just wanted to see the scene.

Well, then the panic set in. So everyone was buying locks from their doors and buying up all the firearms and ammunition because well, this could happen out in their peaceful town. One of the things I did read of the list, they thought meant peaceful view or peaceful place or something like that. But it's also possible that it was named after the Native American word, well, this guy, which means evil spirit.

That's a little different from peaceful view. Yeah, it's kind of opposite ends. But if that in case was why it was named after, I mean, if they knew that you kind of have to wonder if that town would have existed or been thriving the way it was. It was a cursed 40th started.

Yeah. So I mean, it could have been something that you had some individual that might have been manipulated by an outside entity. And that's just pure speculation that's why because like nobody knows who did it or why they did it. There were some of the murders that happened within the same time frame of a few years, a few months, and all of them, all these same murders that had kind of the same, same kind of trademark of killing with an axe.

They were all within walking distance of train. So it would have been very easy for a vagrant to hop off the train, just kind of scout things out for a little bit, find a house that was close by and do what it needed to kind of satisfy that that need, that that itch for for killing someone and then just easily just go back and hop back on the train again and just go without a trace. It wasn't that the Continental Railroad or whatever it was at the time. They were all near that.

And a lot of them had a lot of similarities. Like one of the things they found in this particular house is they had gone through and ransacked all the dressers and stuff and took all the clothing and covered up all the windows, the mirrors, like, and when they left. And one thing is that this isn't too far removed from the Victorian area and it was customary to cover mirrors at the time if someone died because people would think, you know, if and how did this go? If evil spirits could see them doing bad things, it would amplify it.

And so the guy kind of, and I could have them wrong, but so it almost tells me that whoever did it knew that it wasn't a good thing, but he needed it. So the covering of the mirrors and the windows was very telling. There were a lot of suspects that they had. The one that kind of strikes me as most interesting was Andrew Sawyer.

He was a vagrant. He was a stranger that was new to Wiska. He went to a rich foreman for the Burlington Railroad Company and he approached the crew at around 6am on the morning of the murders that the murders were discovered. Sawyer, who was clean shaven, who was wearing a brown suit, his shoes were covered in mud, his pants were wet nearly to the knees, he asked for employment, and was given a job on the spot.

So later it was testified by the foreman that Sawyer, one day, purchased a newspaper. He went off by himself to read it. The newspaper carried a front page count of the Wiska murders, and he was really interested in according to the account from the foreman. The crew was complaining that Sawyer slept with his clothes on.

He was anxious to be by himself. He was uneasy and he slept with his axe next to him. He often talks and talked to the Wiska murders and whether or not his killer had been apprehended. One day he was testified that the foreman dire was his last name, Wanda, behind Sawyer, who was rubbing his head with both hands and suddenly jumped up and said himself, I'll cut off your goddamn heads.

Cut your goddamn heads off. Sorry, my language, my language. At the same time he made striking motions with the axe and he began to pile up in front of them. So this guy showed signs of mental illness, but he was just one of several alleged perpetrators.

Like I said, there was a book that was written and he wasn't even one of the suspects when they did the research. They found evidence for someone that was completely forgotten, never found at the time. But I thought reading about the actual incident itself, Sawyer was one of those guys that kind of stood out as being really unusual and acting strange. One of the other victims or not victims suspects was, I believe it was a state senator at the time, his name was Frank Jones.

And I guess, Josiah and Frank had actually worked together several years before Josiah had opened up his own implement company in 1908. And according to Wiska residents, Jones was extremely upset that Moore had left the company and started his own. And was basically doing better financially than he was. Yeah, it's a business.

Pretty much, yeah. And so one of the thoughts is that because this guy was, I mean, they got to the point where they wouldn't even talk to each other when they saw each other in public. I mean, they used to be good friends and employees or any worked for him, Josiah worked for him. And they just kind of complete 180 and they didn't even talk to each other.

And so one of the theories is that Frank actually committed the murders out of jealousy, which if that was the case, it would explain why Josiah was the first one killed and he was the most mutilated. Now, there is another suspect, his name is William Blackie Mansfield. I was just about to get to that too. And I'll just mention real quick that it's rumored that Frank Jones actually paid Blackie to commit the murders.

But do you want to jump more into that? Oh, it's just going to say that. Just that, you know, that Jones was a suspect, but also that there's a theory that he hired Mansfield, the more family. Mansfield, it's believe the Mansfield was a serial killer because he murdered his wife.

He murdered infant child and his parents in law with an axe two years before the ballistic crimes. He's believed to have committed to axe murders in other states, a pay-all of Kansas for a day before the ballistic crimes. So it would have been easy for this man to hop on a train, go from one site to another. And yeah.

But he was released. They found him quoted by the crime when his alibi checked out. Right. So another one was a fellow by the name of George Kelly and he was a reverend.

And I believe that he was actually at the church with the family, at least for part of the time. It turns out he was a sexual deviant. I was really going to a full-on of detail there. And he actually confessed of the crime and they took him in, but later he recanted and said, no, I didn't do it.

So I think it might have been a cry for attention. He might have had some illness as well. But I think they checked out his alibi and it didn't quite work out as well. But I don't know.

I guess it's just people that do that, that I claim to have done something and then they changed their story and then they say, you know, it wasn't me. I think, you know, there's a lot of disturbed people that want that attention and they aren't the actual murders. And I just understand what the motive is behind it. Stuff like that.

That might be a good thing. Yeah. I'll take that as a good thing. I mentioned also that there was a book I was written.

It was called The Man from the Train written by Bill James and his daughter Rachel McCarthy James, which leads us to the list of murders part of much lighter series of murders that were all committed by a single serial killer. They concluded that murder was a man by the name of Paul Mueller or Miller who was a German immigrant possibly. He was a subject of a unsuccessful manhunt as the sole suspect in the 1897 murder of family in West Brookfield, Massachusetts. They hired him as a farm hand and he slaughtered the family as well.

James stated his research in an attempt to solve the list of murders and with his daughter. They found archival news paper stories detailing dozens of families murdered under similar circumstances all across the US. The James's thus believed that Mueller was guilty of the list of murders as part of a killing spree that lasted over a decade, killing at least 59 people in 14 separate incidents including Colorado Springs Colorado and Piola Kansas crimes. So yeah, this killer was was never found and I'm sure he's dead now.

Probably. Yeah. So we have eight people that were very violently killed, you know, a mystery killer. So we're a paranormal show.

So probably the question of everybody's mind is what about paranormal activity there? So pretty much they said that any phenomenon you could possibly have ever in any way, shape or form has been recorded there in one footsteps. Yes, shadows, yes, things moving, yes, uneasy feelings, yes, everything. Usually in circumstances like this where it's a violent crime and people are killed in tragic horrific ways.

There's usually a residual energy that's left, you know, the spirits might not be able to comprehend what happened to them. They're allowed to take it suddenly. They feel like they have unfilled things that still need to be accomplished. So they might never have never crossed over.

There's there's a lot of possible explanations. I know that Tim, you just said you just watched the episode of Ghost Adventures where they were out there at the house. The only thing I remember from that episode was that during the investigation they took out a Ouija board, which you know, I can't stress enough. Ouija boards are bad because you're playing with a toy with a tool that's basically opening up a portal.

You don't know who you're contacting. It could be the spirits that are living there. It could be something completely different, something malevolent that's pretending to be someone else. And you know, I just can't stress enough.

Don't play with them. So it's always kind of unnerving to see these, you know, air quotations professionals using stuff like this to gain refutable evidence. And I don't know. What's your take on Tim?

The house? On what happened during Ghost Adventures since it's more fresh in your mind? The one thing I do remember is there was a pair of sisters that had their family owned the house and they grew up in it after the fact they brought them to the house. And they talked about their experiences and the stuff that they thought they saw or they felt.

And the one sister, I don't remember their names, but I could tell she did not want to be in the house whatsoever. And the fear that I could feel coming from her, I mean, you don't have to be gifted or anything like that. You can tell just the body language is the way that she was. You can tell that that fear that she had of being at home was genuine.

And just from that fact alone, tell me that there is something there, like whether it's the spirit of the man that came into the murders, or if it's something inhuman or demonic in nature, there's definitely something negative going on in that house. There's whether or not they experienced something to the extent that they said, I don't know. But that was real enough that she was afraid of being in this house. She actually had to remove herself from the home and go to the neighbor's house just to calm down.

And that's usually one of the symptoms of people that are sensitive to that is that they'll want to walk into something that's negative, the charge that they have feelings of business and nausea, we have them, they have some feelings. So, you know, I totally subscribed to that that she was legitimate in her behavior and reacting to what was going on, that it was so upsetting that she kind of put her out of tune with the she only feels and then, you know, and you got to remove yourself in situations when you start to feel that way. We've been on investigations that have been people that have felt uneasiness and nausea. And that's the best advice is just, you know, leave the site, you know, gather yourself, get yourself together.

So I think she responded the best way possible. I know that they have the current sheriff of the town with them when they did their investigation. They actually locked themselves in. And the sheriff didn't seem to know that they were actually locked in the house so they couldn't just let go out running.

But they did almost like two hour long EVP session and they weren't really getting anything. If I remember correctly, there was something that happened towards the end. I can't remember what they heard, what the exact phrase was that they heard over the, I believe the spirit box or the EVP session or whatever they were using at the time. Keeping my, the sheriff is very skeptical, you know, doesn't believe in the paranormal.

But he definitely felt like he'd heard something during their investigation. So, and I think I've seen like news reports of like people going in with you know, their news cameras and all that and seeing like shadows and stuff going up the stairs. And it's just in my opinion, like it's just going off of what Peach has said when she saw Peach at the home. Just all the negative energy, the hatred, the fact that I mean, she was able to tell that there was people merging the house.

I believe she asked us and there was something, I don't know if she said there was something there or not, but there is other than supercharged negative emotions. Even if there isn't a spirit in there, all that negativity can definitely affect somebody. Yeah. So for $400, you can go and sit over there.

That would actually be a lot of fun. I know that a lot of people are like, oh, why would you do that? But, you know, that's what we do. And I think it's good to enter it with a healthy amount of skepticism.

But I think that you would find out pretty quickly that it is a legitimate haunting that there is definitely stuff going on. Like you said, a laundry list. Yeah, I mean, yeah. They actually, they have a, there's a bulletin board if you go there that people have left evidence pictures of evidence and you can find this picture online.

And some of it's orbs and I, I don't believe in orbs unless I see an orb in a video that's moving differently than the other dust in the air flow. But some of the other evidence there is like, look, there you gotta be careful though. If you go there, the locals for the most part don't buy into it. And I'm sure that there are some, but in general, kind of the general field area is, yeah, whatever it's fun.

And they said that sometimes if the kids know that there's someone spending the night, the kids will go and tap on the windows. So, you know, you have to kind of take some of those taps with a grain of salt, but that doesn't mean that other evidence can't be there. You can get the other things that you see with your own eyes. So if you do go, just know that the local kids will play a couple of things that you said will get too excited about every knocking thing that you hear.

That's pretty good advice for all paranormal investigations. Yes. Exactly. Help you skepticism.

Don't take everything with a grain of salt that it's all paranormal. Try to find a watch collection when I used to first try to debunk it and try to find a rational reason behind what's going on. But you can't then. Yeah, because if it's paranormal, that's awesome.

But you don't want to be one of those people that every time every else, everybody, not try to do that. Well, in older homes, there's water hammering and the impikes. Yeah. All of a sudden you just, and I've had that happen to me in an overhome that I lived in one point.

I mean, first time it happened, it was scary as hell. Houses settle at night when it's during the day, you know, wood beams and nails they heat up and expand and a night when it cools off and it contracts again. And there's natural, I mean, that's a natural thing, what houses to have, knocks and bumps in even modern houses. Well, and I think it was even our last podcast, what we mentioned was residential and there wasn't anything that we were able to be like everything because, I mean, it was a skeet little lady and, you know, and I get her concerns.

But sometimes it's sometimes, you know, the things that go bump in the night is not paranormal. Especially in this situation, where she lives alone, your mind can play tricks on you. I mean, even if you're not looking well, but I think you're more susceptible to just, you know, no one else is in the house. You don't have anyone else to verify that this is going on or anyone's to talk to about it.

So you're just going to like, oh, the house, the creek, there's no one here. I'm anywhere in here. So it must be normal. Are you saying that someone currently resides in the home, like as a residence?

No, in the residential that we did. Okay, I was going to say, I missed that. No, I believe the owners, they do the tours, like you can buy tickets to spend the night in the house. Yeah, but I couldn't imagine someone actually wanting to live there.

I think the current owners, unless it's been changed, because the website I was looking at was, you know, created before 2012, because it was the same 97 years ago. So the website was created. But I believe at the time of that website's creation, the family that owned it and bought it like 1994, I don't know if those people actually live a house. I doubt it.

I know that everything around the house, like a lot of buildings have been torn down and the city's been rebuilt. That particular house has been put on the national historical registry, so it cannot be torn down. And I think the house was actually moved from the original site to I think it's moved in a new location. But I could imagine someone purchasing it for the, you know, the value, knowing that they could be like a destination for people to deal with, which is what they're doing.

Right. And the pictures that I saw online, it almost looks like, you know, you can rent it at night for those investigations, paranormal things. But to me, I got the impression that it's a museum and you can just walk through. I could be wrong, but it was kind of just the way it was set up and it just looked a museum issue.

Now, the actual acts itself was left on premises. I don't know if it's at that location or at another location, but I do remember that somewhere in the area, there is the actual acts to view, like it's in a glass case. Right. I've seen a picture of it.

And they've left it partially cleaned off. And I don't know if that's if they've just done that to add to it or if it's left the way it was. I could only imagine that there's something attached to it or the energy associated with that weapon that they use to kill all those people. I think if I remember going from the Gulls' Metrichel that there was a dude that had like a little museum type thing there in Welskuh, he had the axe in a glass case.

Yeah. They weren't able to determine whether or not it was legit the actual axe. Yes. He did have an axe.

If I remember correctly, if I'm wrong, please feel free to let me know. But if I remember correctly from this Gulls' Metrichel, there was a guy that had like a little shop or something and his claim was that he actually had the actual axe that was used. That sounds right, but it wasn't actually on site. It was off site at a smaller little museum.

Dude, your dog loves me. He's like lying next to me and his eyes are rolling back. Yeah. He's been pet...

Yeah. So, my little dog is quieter if we just let him come podcast with us. So, yeah, he's just loving life right now. So, I need to change the subject.

I'd like an hour long massage. He was just like... I might have to stick a pump with me. I found that.

Anyways. But if any of y'all have been to the axe in my house or have any other information, I mean, there's a whole lot. If you go to... I believe it's voliska.iowa.com.

That's where I did a lot of my research that was people that actually live in Voliska and put this website together. It talks about the town, the crime itself. It actually has pictures of the family, pictures of the suspects. It goes over a lot of the suspects.

And just kind of everything that went on. And then there's plenty of documentaries on YouTube as well. You feel we didn't cover enough, but I mean we covered pretty much everything. I hope so.

And if you have any questions, you know, you always reach out to us. If you have anything you'd like to add, we'd love to hear any kind of personal experiences, any anecdotes. If you've actually visited the site, love to hear about your thoughts and impressions. So, let us know.

Give a shout out to Tim. Alrighty. So, weird wacky paranormal news. Wacky.

Wacky. I don't know. Wacky. So, this one...

I do actually. Is it wacky and wild? No, I'm trying to read that. So, I take notes while I'm watching some YouTube videos.

Weird wild stuff. Weird wild stuff. So, this weird wild stuff is really more weird wild people. You guys need hobbies, as all I can say.

So, as I was looking around for something weird and wacky, apparently there's a hobby that people have of trying to convince other people that there are ghost cars. And that these ghost cars drive around and get in accidents with other cars. And I watched probably 20 of these little videos. And there's a couple videos.

Yeah. This is the thing. Go to YouTube and type in ghost car and you can see this yourself. And it's like, okay, you photoshopped it out.

I'm not even, I am not even convinced. I'm not even hearing. Look at this. What do you think?

No, it's photoshopped out. Seriously, with digital photography and the things that you can do with Photoshop, it's not surprising that people try to pull these hopes and stuff. It is kind of interesting because you look at it like this car's driving around and all of a sudden it just like munches and turns. And I will have to, it's kind of cool.

It's kind of cool seeing a one car accident. But don't try to tell me it's a ghost car. Get a hobby. Knit for heaven's sake.

I think you found a hobby. They're really good at visiting. Right? I've seen some of those videos.

I'm just like, yeah, I can make that. I could do that. Now, the legend of the grandmas. I'm not sure if you guys remember that.

The grandmas. I think it's an Ogden. It's been said that there's a car that drives around with three old ladies in it. And all they do is just drive and wear masks, I think like a facial.

And this is not not COVID masks. Yeah, not COVID masks. But I don't know. It might have been COVID masks.

But this is a couple years ago that I first heard about from Kenny Dee from Radio Rodin about the grandmas. Are you guys familiar with that? All year ago, this is actually the first time hearing. You've never heard the grandmas.

No, this is wackier. This is wackier. This is wackier than ghost cars. I don't know if this would be considered a ghost car where it's just, I don't know if it's, I think it might just be urban myth or urban legend.

But a lot of people have sworn that they've seen this car driving around late at night and it's got like three or four old women in it and they just have these blank vacant expressions and they're driving at night in the middle of the night. And I, man, I wish I had more details to the story, but I wasn't sure if you guys had heard about it. So I was expecting you to kind of help fill in the details of the blank. I'll definitely look into that.

We'll talk about this next time. So just be prepared with the grandmas. The urban myth of the grandmas and I think it's Ogden, Utah. And if you guys have any more information about this, feel free to let us know before we record in two weeks.

Please. If you've seen the grandmas driving around, let us know. Tell us your story. We need to know about Grandma.

I'm not usually not anywhere around with Dan's driving. So this is like three or four years ago that I first heard about it. But like I said, it was Kennedy D for him. Radio Run that first mentioned it.

And I think he lives up in that area in the Ogden area. I believe so. And so I think he's actually seen the grandma. So can you hear listening?

Tell us more about your personal experiences with the grandmas. Is that wild? Is that weird enough? Yeah, that's tough.

Thank you. Johnny Carson. Hey, oh. All right.

This week, I am going to be talking about Sapphire. I love Sapphire. So I'm a favorite. Don't know anything about it.

So let's let's just jump right into it and see what the crystal is. September's first stone. I was not born in September, but my best calculations. I was conceived in September.

So I counted as kind of a student over. There you go. Parents did the old heavy bibby in September. Yes, they did.

Nice. That's too much information. I am a honeymoon, baby. Well, that's cool.

I think your my parents didn't have me for about three days. Anyway, Sapphire, let's hear about it. Okay. That was that much weird wild stuff.

All right. Yes. Yes. Fire.

Oh, I'm pretty much not afraid to say anything in case you wondered. Okay. I'll give you a list next week and see how much we say. Okay.

So Sapphire, couple of colors that can be blue, yellow, green, black, or purple. It's rarely is some Sapphire colors are rare, but most are easily obtained as uncut stones. Something attributes of Sapphire is it's known as the wisdom stone, each color having its own particular wisdom. It focuses and calms the mind and releases unwanted thoughts and mental tension, bringing in peace of mind and serenity.

Sapphire aligns the physical mental and spiritual planes and restores balance within the body. This stone releases depression and spiritual confusion and stimulates concentration. It brings prosperity and attracts gifts of all kinds. Now, when placed on throat, Sapphire releases frustration and facilitates self-expression.