‘We are being beaten into submission with lies’ - writer George Saunders on Trump, truth and power

“It's really a deep irony that this guy who has really never set foot in a normal American street was mistaken as a man of the people”, writer George Saunders says of the US President, Donald Trump. His work has long centred on the very people who live with the consequences of decisions made far above them, ordinary and fallible individuals navigating increasingly hostile conditions.In a world marked by political lies, climate denial and the erosion of shared reality, Saunders’ fiction interrogates moral ambiguity, human weakness and the forces that draw individuals toward destructive choices.In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Krishnan Guru-Murthy speaks to Saunders about the collapse of truth in public life, why satire no longer pierces political leaders who feel no shame, and whether storytelling can still help us understand one another in an age of polarisation.