Hi everyone and welcome to the Nelly Up North podcast. It's a Nelly podcast and it's hosted by Northern nerds. I am way more sun. Beep beep, Sammy.
Sammy. I'm one of the other hosts, Paul. Yes, if you're joining us tonight, after the last week's episode and you expect and scruched. And we've had a bit of a change of a plan.
Beep. Because Sammy, Sammy, got a little bit excited this week, didn't you, I'm really? Yeah, so obviously we're here for welcome to Derry. And me and Paul, as you, was having a conversation after the episode.
And then the other dude was dropping into there. And said, we really should do this as an episode. And he was like, well, I was like, oh, I'm tickin'. You know, you can actually just say it to me.
I don't want to do Scrooge. I want to do, well, no, I was all, Bill Murray up. I was going to talk about the three ghosts, which were Lee, Chris and Jay coming to give us Christmas tidings, but no, we're talking about a murderous intergalactic clown. Unhinged, Nate Mayfield, batshit crazy, clown.
Yes, I'm very excited for this. But before we get started, kind of go, can it go on, miss that this week has been absolutely tragic. We are huge massive fans of the movie, Stand By Me and the Body. And it just can't go unnoticed or unmentioned.
The passing of Robert and Michelle Ryan of this week so, so sad. And literally as we are coming on, I'm still in shock about it, that we've also lost another, Derry from the member. Yeah, James Ranccon is sadly passed away. It's been a time we can all try to, and try to get certain stances as well.
It really has, and it just would be a mistake that we are hugely grateful for everything Rob has done for the film community, the film industry, the direction he's acting, he was just such a top notch guy. Stand By Me is one of the truly, the most accurate movies of one of Stephen King's work, that even he was left shaken by the experience of watching it. It's one of the greatest common of the edge stories I've ever made. Yes, it is.
It truly truly is. Rob was an absolute giant in Hollywood, and he is going to be absolutely, and his wife as well, Michelle, so, sorely missed. And James Ranccon, as we, as you know, us, it fans will know he played Eddie Spaghetti in, Andy Michelle, he was it in 2019. Oh, let's talk it a bit out, yeah.
I don't know. But yes, really, really sad, and sorry to start it on a bum note, but I didn't think it could go on without mentioning it. So do you want to do the disclaimer? I think we should.
And then pick this up, back up again, because that really took a sad turn. So, everything's good since it is our opinions, and it's our opinions alone, and if you'd like to discuss anything from today's episode, I'd probably use common joiners on the, know you're not socials, you can come and join the know you're not discord, or comment section where we can have no discussion. But what we want to have is anyone coming for us and tell us our opinions are wrong, because we can all agree to disagree and fund them. So let's keep it fun, keep it kind, and keep the toxic behaviour out of the nerdism.
Yes, please do. Be nice. For once. Thanks.
Thank you. Oh, yes. So, do you want to do the taglines? Oh my goodness, yeah, this even comes with taglines.
It's not a film, but it's, which shock it is because I wasn't looking for them. Like a TV show wouldn't have taglines, would it, but this one does? Oh, the TV show was a mini series rather than, like, see a TV special, shall we see? It was something.
It was definitely something. Sure, the first one is visit the town, everyone's dying to see. Right. Mayans best kept secret.
Sounds like a special sauce. This isn't it. It's the place to be. I don't like that one.
That one. I like that one. And the final one is go back to where it all began. That's not true, is it, though?
That's not true, North. But you don't think that's me, Shelley, just trying to like, because he didn't add the chapter one until the very end. Yes, and just before we put it out there as well. Spoiler warning.
Oh, yes, if you have not seen, welcome to Dari. You should not be here because I'm going to talk the shit out of it and tell you everything that happened. So, but if you have watched it and you are still sticking with us, thank you. And thank you for ensuring what you are about to go through.
I'm happy that this is kind of like almost our last episode of the year, because this year has been the year of the King. Like, let me, our big episodes are the most fun we've had. It's been doing Stephen King projects and even we've not realised and we've been touching on King we have done as well. So Christ, we've done misery.
We've done the run of man. Yeah, Dr. Sleigh. Dr.
Sleigh. We did them last year. It all blends into one year now with just all the mushrooms. It kind of does.
Because I did, I really thought China was this year, because China is one of my favourite episodes I've did. But yeah, we've done the last walk, the last walk, the last walk. When it was the last walk. We did the long walk.
It's been a top-notch year of King. The run of man under 25 won, which now because I'm reading the book, I realise why it came out this year for. It's because in the book, the future is 2025. The future is now, people.
The future is now. So yes, I can understand why that came out this year. But yeah, it's been a top-notch year for King. But I remember way way back when this being brought up almost, it felt as, almost as soon as the films were over with.
But realistically, when I've been reading, it was only 2022. I think why it feels like that, the discussion originally was, and again, this is not slight, the director was not happy that his true vision of it was not realised in them two movies. He came out and said, I'm not happy we've had a cut out. I was an hour's of this, these movies.
I've had so much I wanted to sell. And he was investing in that. Again, I think I've told the story before, he had an interview with the King Smith, he was like, if you can't tell a story in 90 minutes, you will lose people's attention. So I think that's probably stuck with him.
So rather than doing a prequel movie, he's done a TV show, which you can get a lot more in, you can get a lot more out of, you can go a lot deeper. And one thing I will say about this show, the love and care, not just of Pennywise, not of just the story, it, but Dury, the King universe, the love and care and the nods and the winks in there. It's breathtaking, the time that was taken in this as well. And again, I know Sammy's gonna be the one that springs, everything's shining light butterflies and rainbows out with this.
I'm gonna start a little bit controversial. Cause I don't think it's bad, I don't think it's bad. It's just my opinion actually, my interpretation. Cause I'm not, I'm a, I'm just a regular, you're from something that I'm not a good producer.
I don't make, even though I think I can make million bucks on my Nick West Cage idea. Well, yeah. I think it ever so to this was too long. I think I had a push to get the story and get everything that you wanted in.
I think six would have worked. I think it would have been tighter with a four episode because there was certain things, again, we'll disagree and like think, cause I know you love this world. You love every aspect of this world. I think there was certain aspects that could have been left on the cutting floor that wouldn't been missed.
Or you wouldn't have kind of thought, Oh, that's, that's things. Again, I was on the discussion with Nick about this as well. Cause like when you get to the final two episodes, the final two episodes are as perfect storytelling and TV show wise or even entertain wise that has been created in a long time. But in the middle section, and again, to go back, the first episode was one of the most perfect starting points.
And I'll pry it. It did not mess up. It did not mess up. It did not mess up.
And again, I'm trying not to get shot in content one of the sevens of the sevens of the three. It's not having a liered at like a badge of honor right now. But yeah, the starting point and the ending was great. But there was a lot in the middle that was like, I'll be honest, the graveyard scene with the kids, I think that didn't need to be in.
I know it's building stuff. There was certain aspects that they were trying to build a story and it's like, it kind of dragged on. You could have got to A to B a lot quicker rather than going from year one, year two, year two, and to tell that story. Again, I love the world.
I love the people involved. I love that the, like I said, all the different aspects and different characters that brought in. If we don't get a dick-hollering spin-off after this, I will be very surprised because that was money. That was pure money.
If H.B. Or cannot see the value in what they have with him, they are so, they are, it's fucking wrong. Give that man. Give that up.
Give us the Stephen King fans a shining that we could go. And with him, we could talk, oh my God, that man was just fucking mesmerizing. I don't even want to shine him. Because he talks about the thing, Dick Hollowan getting to the show.
Yeah, didn't he see he was going to London first? Yeah, he was going to work in London first. Because that's for me, because Anne wins. So he doesn't go straight to the overload.
No. And I was like, oh no, he's got to build it up first. And I mean, we'll get to Dick Hollowan and Chris Chalk and his amazing, amazing performance. Because I don't want to take away from why you go at the minute, so you go.
That's fine. And as I said, it's such a rich task. And again, I'll put my neck on the line here and see it. One of the things that didn't spoil the show, but almost kind of like, it's the same, like, the Spiderman effect that we had a few years ago.
The fans were on uproar and they coming on social media. It's a tragedy. Why can't we have Bill Skarscard from the start? No, you don't do that.
You don't go in bang for the thing. Because when we got him, it was worth it, like, be off. But again, I do think it was probably his delayed or one or two episodes longer than it needed to be. And even though we had it or the being in there in every single episode, that was kind of like the payoff.
That's kind of like the scariest. And one of the things I do want to see or even clap to the show is they made Pennywise even more scarier than Tim Curry's, which they didn't in the first two. It's the new remit. I'll be honest, I wasn't, like, I love Bill Skarscard's performance, but Compendent of Tim Curry, it wasn't there.
This one blew everything out of the way. And subtle little things, it's like head movements being more imposing. And I don't know about you. They use the eyes a lot more, the little eyes shining in the door.
That was brilliantly done. And that made everything a lot more scarier. It made a pop pop pop pop pop. I was talking to Kim last night, he would horror, give a shout out.
But I was talking to her last night. And I said, this might come across controversial, but he is my Pennywise. Now he is after this. I was sitting on the fence to start with.
I love the movies. I love the first one. I love the second one. I watched them.
I've watched them all this year. Because we mentioned the same King episodes we've done. We did fucking Pennywise. We did it as well.
That was probably the big one. But I've watched these films more times this year than I can actually have done in any other year. I just, and there's something that keeps drawn back. I didn't have to go and watch them to lead up to do this episode.
But I ended up falling back because I just love this world. I'm going to be shedding his building. And Barbara mentioned it. So I kind of forget that it's a brother sister combo on this.
He's not just the only one. I agree to a certain extent with the length of it and how long it took to get to things. It were a few times that I found myself picking me for one up and going just to get to the point. However, I have had to, when it comes to the likes of King, I appreciate that things need to be drawn out for a reason.
And especially when you're doing world building. Yeah. You know, pictures of Derry were not created in depth as they have been in this when you look at the movies. And Michelle, you're trying to lay a groundwork out, ready for going back to this.
Oh, why we think he's going to go? That's the best. Yeah. There's been so much talk about what's good.
Because I remember on the misery episode talking about this and saying we're going to get three series, it's guaranteed, and we're going to have this and we're going back to the macroverse. And I don't know that for sure. But what I've heard on that is that we are going back. Yeah.
Going back to the end. And it's kind of like foreshadow is that it's kind of like. It does. It does.
Yeah. But I also remember on the misery episode that I mentioned that Dick, it was a fact that had nothing to do with misery at all. That I just said that Dick Holler and you, Mike's granddad. Oh, maybe he'll be in Welcome to Derry.
And got the shock of he fucking life when he did end up being it. Yeah. So again, I'm just trying to get all the negative that just the personal opinions have the way. I think that every show's got a budget.
Everyone's got a certain amount they can spend. Certain scenes or certain shots were saved until the last two episodes. Because the special effects in the last two episodes would, I don't care if anyone tells me differently. They were done by different people from the first couple.
Because the first book, I hear you use these kind of comments. It was very much goosebumps. And are you afraid the dark type scares with a certain effect? It's very scary.
So even given Scooby-Doo reference, I would say Scooby-Doo's done a better. But the last two, like some of the most beautifully crafted effects, like from Pennywise's like Fiat towards the end when he turns into the Batlight creature, that could have looked so bad or has been so hammy, but it was done just wow. Then after that, like when you see he's sitting there and he realizes he's stuck and his face is morphing into all the different characters he's been, again, it didn't feel overly done. That's fierce.
It felt ferocious. I was like, where was this? And again, I know everyone's laughing, but the pickle jar man, come on. That was horrendous.
Her mother, that bedroom, see that fucking lamp, the skin lamp. Yeah. Focknaw. Yeah, there was some good work in there, but the I get see, I didn't mind.
I didn't mind. I know you can't understand. I'm saying funny. I actually found it hilarious because it was so out there.
And I don't know because there were children. It felt appropriate. Right. No, I get that.
But when you watch these movies, because again, you talk to any horror fan or any movie fan or pop culture fan, about steaming things. It you go back to the 1990 Tim Curry one, people are terrified. I know people's got opinions on the second half, but people are terrified. That's where a lot of people's clown forbias, a lot of people's fears started from that movie going back to the remake or the re managing the first part.
Again, it has genuine scares. It's got like standby me feel. It's got the goonies feel. I'll get the records out now.
Um, the second part, again, we've got huge different views on that. But again, there's real big scares. There's like huge elements. That's what we were kind of expecting from this.
But I was slightly worried. I'm not going to lie when it comes to, I think it was episode three and four. I was like, oh, this could be going off the reels. And when they brought it back, like when they start going back into like Pennywise's like history, how he got to the clown outfit from from Bob.
Um, that was just a nears and how the broad characters back into it. And again, the end and where you thought it was just, oh, that's a nice little thing, nice little thing that we've kind of like being thinking about. But then your brain starts taking over. What does this mean for the next one and the next one?
It's because in this as well, I know I'm sorry, I'm talking because I know you want to be taught a lot. I'm just trying to get you. Go for it. Go for it.
I know in this one, we met a lot of family members from the number seven. We fucking did. But that leads me to the question that we'll go talk about, like, say, which we'll get out the way now. So I think it'll be easier.
Um, there were certain characters not seen or not relatives were not brought up in this movie. Like we didn't have Bill's family. We didn't have Eddie's spaghetti's family. I've got a feeling because they give us a few.
We got a little hint of Beverly show. We say again, we'll talk about that. Um, that when we go back with again, because what Pennywise has said and make his actions will he be targeting their family then? That's my interest.
That's why I think I'm all in the goals. Yeah, and that's kind of the impression to give it the end. So any alluded to the fact that time is different for him. His death is more his birth.
That's his starting point. So for him, time, he needs to go back and he and what he's, but what is, what is he trying because he doesn't have a kill, Marge. It's almost like he wants it to happen. He has to make sure that it's almost like he's making sure that these are all OK.
So with Marge, for instance, he did not kill her. If he really wanted to change his future, like why wouldn't he get rid of her to stop his then killer? So it's making me think and I hear the fact that Michelle is doing this to my brain and that he is keeping them safe that his death at the end means something completely different to him being gone. Yeah.
And he had that has to happen. So he has to keep the future that the people who bring him the lucky seven, they have to be OK. Yeah. Well, he does attack them.
He does like go for the killer. No, but if it wasn't for tricky dick, he would have. What about the eye situation? That was because of a thing he saved.
What was she called? Lucy is a lily. Sorry, lily. I think he could have.
I think if he really wanted to, he could have. But again, I think Lily is more to this story or more to the other stories as well. Oh my God. I think just because there's nothing mentioned about her in the later ones and the fact that she survives and all she goes through hell.
But for her to survive because I know it sounds really bad. I was like, oh, she's got no remnants to what's coming. I had a peg to die. That was I thought she was going to be the one to snuff it as well.
Yes, because this show was not afraid to kill off its people. It really, really wasn't. There's a lot of theories with in the Stephen King community and just to preference, they don't like this. And actually, that's a big lie.
No, that is such a lie. It is so half and half. I have never seen them saw divided. You either love it or they hate it.
There's no in between. Right. But when it comes to her, the, especially the March reveal, they did not like that. And they really did not like that because we have already seen March in this universe.
And they were with Lily people with the horizon that she was Beverly's mum. Right. Beverly's mum is called Alfreda. Yeah.
So we say we say her in it. We also say no, we don't want to be. We do say Alfreda and it's just one of the girls of the loggers. I've got a photograph.
I've got a photograph. Yeah. She's one of the paddy cakes. She's not one of the paddy cakes.
Um, uh, keep talking. Sorry. I'm just trying to think. No, it's OK.
And it's all the way for me because it's a name that it's my grandmother's name is Alfreda. And I've never, I've never heard anyone call it outside of my own grandmother. Alfreda Marsh. OK, I did not know that.
Yeah, sorry. I've just shot a picture of anyone there live. But yeah, because I was looking because I was a timeline of people who would appear in, like say, then we're the link up to because again, we've got the Clint Bowers who is. Oh, good.
Grandfather of Henry Bowers. Yeah, which again, as I was like, say, interesting. We've got the Uris family in there. Oh, the Urich.
Oh, my God. I was I'm sorry. I need to blow this out now. I was devastated when Teddy got killed.
I really want I really, really wanted to spend the entire series with him. Yeah. And his friend, I because that was Stanley's uncle, I was like, his friend has to have something to do with and no. And Eddie, Richie Richie has something so rich about him.
He's theories on alien invasion. We're absolutely hilarious. Yeah, in the way that he talked as well. And did you know that the little girl who played his sister was actually his real sister?
No, I didn't know that. That's why I got it. For the sister convo. Uh huh.
But I think this is where this series kind of gripped us at that. Like by the throat, by the only chance because the Martin from this was so clever. If we go back to like say the early Comic Con release, we got like a 20 second teaser. This was like many years ago, then let's say the start show on the posters and artwork.
And it was all based on what we thought was going to be the new loser. So, when you look at the picture that you've got up there, that's one of the promo pictures and you can see that's not the guys you end up with at the end. So what was so clever is when you got, like I say, the scene, like the scene was brutal. It was horrific.
It was everything that you wanted in the horror movie. Because I say the starting point will be the start point at the end a few seconds. I don't want to leave off this point. Um, it was basically it was just so shocking and sure because you didn't think you thought they were going to go out that time and when they didn't, when he literally got out and like she was the only one that saw what was happening.
And then the credits rolled and I was like, what's going on? Then they stood there, Bob Smack. But the next, I think in the next hour, he had to be all and released the poster exactly the same, like not the same one as that, but with the stuff in there. So with the kids replaced.
Yeah, it was so clever. How they did it. So clever. Andy Machete is really when you say thought and care is being put into this, him and Barbara have really done their homework.
And what I think, I don't know if a lot of Stephen King fans want to overlook this, but nothing got done without King's approval. Nothing got done. Everything got ran past him. He was fully aware of any changes that was going to take place.
But it's not so much change. It's just elaborate. This is how I've done anyway. It's blossoming.
It's elaborate and on things and taking back. Like I've been watching a lot of them breakdowns and a guy who I think it's called Major spoilers and he's done some fantastic. He's a huge fan of the book and he has absolutely adored the show, but he's managed to give, well, this is what's from the show, but this is also what's referenced in the book as well. So we've kind of like cross referenced it all.
He's being very clever how he's done it. And so yeah, I think people forget that King had a lot to do with this, but one person, now bear in mind, actually, what I found really interesting, I am do you, does not have a lot of information on the production of this. But one thing I did find out is that Bill Starsgott didn't even want to come back. Right.
He didn't know. So the when it's not so 2022 is when we first heard England's of this, 2023 is when it started to go into production slash 2024. And he wasn't even contracted yet. He hadn't even agreed.
He had to have some very, this is why Starsgott is a producer on this movie, is a TV show is because he ended up having to go in a goshy, not negotiations to do it. He would do petty wise, but he didn't know the direction that we're going to go in. He felt the story had already been told. So Starsgott had some very interesting conversations and was allowed in on the creative process, which is why we get the story, that there's things from the movie that people have wanted to have elaborated on, the story of Bob Grey.
And Mrs. Kirsch, we just get to see her in that house and then she's got some form of connection to, but to, anyway, but what's that connection? It's never fully recognized in the movie. So this is why when they were having the discussions, they wanted to go down these routes in this shore.
The ceremony of Chud, I think you really wanted to clean that up because it's not really explained in the greatest way of possible. So that's why you get a lot of backstory when it comes down to the natives of that land and the protection that they have had over. And then obviously explaining the pillars and trying to, the world building that Chud is doing is, it's my level of fantasy that I love. Yeah, no, and again, I've got no issues with that aspect.
But again, what you've got to remember is you tell them the story and you've got to keep people engrossed. And like, even now when they say we go out and talk to the community, a lot of people say, oh, I'm still on here on episode two, oh, I'm still at that. So it hasn't even finished it. Yeah.
So I can understand what put where we were kind of knowing our hope and where we'd go to. And luckily, as I said, we got the backstory, like, like, like the curse backstory was so well done. Yeah, I love to. So interesting as well.
Again, I think, again, if I'm having mine and like niggles and complaints, they spent a little bit too long with the army bases and like with the army. Oh my god, that was so backward. Well, there was a lot of things when it comes down to the army base that I couldn't quite understand. I mean, the whole I was like the one of women I was like, yeah, like what?
But also how did you remember? Like, this is what this is what I didn't understand about that whole thing. I want to have a conversation about this because again, we've both read the book. Well, it's under two.
Watch all the versions. Apparently the lawyers and as Mike Hanman tells us, you leave Derry, you forget. You stay in Derry, you remember. So why I don't know what to say that adults become numb to the violence or numb to what's going on, just like the part of Derry's.
I know they explained advice in like it's fake, no matter or so, excretion goes in the water and it kind of the use that as an ex-use, which again, it's trying to add layers. But then there's certain people like Mike Hanlon's grandfather is there left at the end to Leroy is to left there to try and guard over or to kind of thing. But when we meet him in East, it is quite different. He's very better.
He's very trusted. He's very much against the world. Like you've got to kill before. It's kind of like that's like it's interesting to see how he's went from Leroy at the end of this to the Leroy.
I know there's a lot of license and things that happen. Life can happen. But all the kids that survive this traumatic event, in theory, if they're steered in Derry, if they're going by the same as Mike Hanlon's approach, they would still know. Like, like, Marge should still know what happens.
But he should still know that unless the left didn't come back, but I don't know what Marge should have made. I think that Derry has this one you get into adulthood, that it has such a way that it's described Derry as a haunted place. And it's not so much that it's, I think we talked about this one. We did it, the episode, that it is its own thing.
It's its own character. And it has its own characteristics. And the monster is just one part of that. It's not the encompassing thing.
So I think I personally feel that Derry, when you get older, starts to corrupt you, starts to make you forget why Mike didn't. The only thing I can put that down to is his connection to the other seven. Right, okay. That's the only thing I can put it down to.
I really think the symbolization of the cut on the hand has a strong, the connection that they all have. Yeah. I think that's the only thing I can place it on. Because you are right, we've already seen Marge.
We saw her when Richie was did the clap in the thingy when Stan does his speech and he kind of pulls him down. We've already seen her with two very clear eyes. But she didn't know that I in this, that's the key point now is that the only reason she's wearing the patch for her is because Richie give it to her and she hasn't technically lost an eye. But I was like, still be all that stuff.
There would be a scar. Like unless they had plastic surgery and that's an old, that is American. But again, the characters, but again, rather than like jumping for it, let's spend a few moments with the beginning. Right.
That's such a good place to start. So half an hour ago jumping into that. And that was such an alpha track. Yeah.
So the, I remember, I remember me sister-in-law watching it and I was at work and she went, stop what you're doing. You're going watch this now. I was like, I can't. And so I was, as soon as I finished work, I was like six o'clock, I had to go watch it because I thought it was crazy.
It never happened and that's going to ruin it for us. I have never been so shocked by it. I had to watch it twice because I answered my reaction while I was watching it. I went, what would have watched it up with you?
So I had to watch it again. And so the second time around, I was a bit more prepared, but I was not fully prepared for not the open and sane. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. And the open and sane.
Yeah, the open and sane was, I think it's there to make your own comfortable. It's there to kind of like, when you get like, you see Maddy and he's like, the escape song. But these dummy. Yeah, again, it's an interesting one.
It's just, as I said, it's not a bad thing. Oh, you little dummy. Yeah. Lesson.
Less, less little thing. But what he's in that car is the most uncomfortable car journey, Adam. It's an obvious thing. I didn't think anything of it until the liver came out.
No, no, no. And that was, that I feel that open and sane was machetely going, I've got here for your money, bitch. And I've got here for your money. I've got here for your screen time.
I can really go because this is not, this is a level of violence and gore that we are not getting from the films. You could tell this was HBO. I disagree because the starting point for it's chapter two is more shocking in my eyes. Right.
I've watched that film. What's the beginning of the kid? When the kid gets to one of the bridge, they'll be about. Oh, Adrian Mellon.
Right. Yeah. No, I think that one was more shocking. Sorry, there was a demon baby that has had that it's actual baby and it was head was on the side.
That got me more than Adrian Mellon's death. And that's another thing that is quite prevalent in this and I think we should really want it to really, I was watching an interview with him the other day where he said he didn't, the themes and the language that I used in the books that makes you uncomfortable is something he didn't want to ignore. Derry is not a nice place. No.
And he did not want the sugar court any of it by changing the mentality of how the book was. No, no, I completely agree. But there was a different tone in this where you feel he kind of leveled it a bit. Because it was less hit.
There was like fan of Derry was of its time, but it didn't. It was fucking backwards. It was. And again, I think back with America is just backward, merry good full stop.
The minute you the minute you warm in on Derry itself, you can see the white nationalist site on the side of the building. That is telling you everything you need to know about this. But I think with certain things, there's I think to show how shopping and how like progressive that things do to try and throw in certain words or certain language to try and make people uncomfortable. It was done in the show.
It was done subtly. Or when you're having the conversations with like Charlotte, who's basically like she is amazing, but this could be again, 10 in the dark way. There's no way. Like at that time, that she would have got away with a lot of the stuff that she did.
See, I don't know, I don't know enough to say that's the case or not. But I just, I was, I love that woman so much. I really really loved that one. She was such a warrior.
And we get, let's not trail off. Let's stick to the first episode that we were just talking about. And the cinema, because we starred in the cinema and we ended in the cinema. And the music man, which honestly tickled my funny one because if anyone's a Simpsons fan, you will know that's where more real comes from.
So here, I was at the back of the time, the song that they sing in is, what was it, your, in trouble? I can't remember. It's one of those ones where if you hear it, you hear it. But like now I'm on the spot, I'm not being able to repeat.
I had to write down the actual musical of what it was, because I couldn't ever remember, because all I kept thinking of was Mario, what's that name, Mario? And it's the music man. I'm sure it's, you're in trouble, because it's him trying to warn the town so that something bad's happening. So it references that in the opening, it references that the end, but the end part is, the beginning part is traumatic as in Jesus Christ on a bike.
That's what that's where it was starting with. But it's the end bit when Mattie is in the screen. That is some beautiful cinematography. Yeah.
And again, like I said, the brutality and the scariness is there, and I know it would have been interesting to have, as say Pennywise, but have that demon be a creature thing. And the CGI on that again, again, not this late. There was choices made, and I can understand it if Pennywise wasn't fully formed as a beacon of Derry back at that point, but he had been. So to me, to have that form or that thing that was horrific, that kind of was like, all right.
And so again, it's applied to say in episode one, we're not going to give you Pennywise just yet. I really wish I took more. I wish I took more place. I'll pay more attention to it, but there is something with the wings and especially the transformation that he does at the end.
That is a, that's a form of him. It's a reference point, because there's reference in, I don't know if it's in the bogus and something where, is like coming through the mites as a winged monster. Yeah. And that's where it's never been to a time.
That's what, that's what I know that they kind of do in the end part. And I thought that's what the word kind of reference in there, but I could be completely off. I think it was one of the most shock value, shock value, most like, I've seen crazy type of thing. What can you think of what can be the worst thing?
That's brilliant these kids all over. But then it was when, it was when Teddy, I keep wanting to call him Eddie, because he's just sort of bloody adorable. And when Teddy gets pulled up and ripped apart and I'm like, Oh, what? We're not meeting now.
What's it's about? And then with a little girl. Oh, Susie. Oh my God.
And then Lily's standing at the end and she's got a fucking hand. And the other little girl as well, what's her name? So you had Lily, Marge, and oh my gosh, where is she? She was fantastic.
Oh, she's not even in the main cast list. She was the main cast. I can't think of one of the other little girl with the one who was in the projection room. Yeah, the one that basically was running around trying to see everyone.
She was a little powerhouse her, I liked her. She was quite angry at times as well. She never liked to be. What was her name?
Well, Lily, Ronnie. Ronnie, that's the one. Ah, that would have been annoying. Yes, Ronnie, she was a little powerhouse her.
She had every right to be angry. Her dad was being done for murder. But what got me was so her dad gets accused of these killings because Christ, it's easy for them to do that. And it's the fact that he won't, he could clear his name so easy.
But he would have been, he would have been hung up. But he would have been found out for having a relationship with a white woman. And for a black man at that time, that is actually more damning than what he was actually accused of. And I watched an interview with a black podcast horse and he was talking to Andy Machete and he went, that really hit with me because that's exactly how I would, you know, in that mindset, in that time, that's how we had to think that the fact that he had a relationship with a white woman was worse than actually been.
The child child got. Yeah, oh yeah. That whole storyline was brilliantly done and very tastefully done as well. Yeah.
The fact that we do get introduced to Dick in the first episode, you don't quite know, but you do know. Like you think. It's something about him again. Like why are you looking all shifty, you geezer?
Yes, the way the look that he gives. It was nice to have Leroy there to know that Leroy was gonna be okay. I would have everything that's okay. Leroy's gonna be fine.
We know that Leroy gets out of this because we've seen him before. We know that Mike's dad gets out of it that he doesn't get out of it later on, but we know that it might get that is safe. So then two characters, Leroy, right? At least we have that.
Everyone else. Oh. Cause the thing that changes you, like what happens in the like endurian stuff. And when you see the deadlights, because Leroy is affected by the deadlights.
Only for a short space of time. So you don't know what kind of like effect. Maybe that's why he is in the future as well. The way he is.
Cause he's a man without brain injury. So he doesn't fear that's the whole point. We see what happens to Ingrid Kirsch when she has a deadlight. And I know it's gonna sound weird, but one of the most beautifully shot scary scenes is when she sees the deadlights.
Yes, she's looking stunning. And there's a look afterwards as well. And she looks at the camera. And she goes look in one way and then she was.
Yeah. Oh my God, she looks fucking stunning. I have never been more attracted to a female clown ever. She looked absolutely beautiful.
But she did throw the whole thing, the woman who played her with the fact that we got the Mrs. Kirsch at the end. And oh my God bless her. She actually died in the long after that.
No, but. That's all. And this is how clever it is. And that's why I love it.
The fact that we don't know why Beverly would be scared of Mrs. Kirsch when she was in that house. She acts a bit hesitant. She's like, it's almost too familiar to her.
Yeah. And then when she realizes, because how terrifying or how traumat inducing would it be to see the old woman who said some weird things when your mum had just killed herself. Also, titty swinging, running out here as an adult. Like that's just weird.
And yes, that end scene was so good. But if we can now take ourselves and talk about de-coloring for a bit, because as you want to talk about de-coloring, and as we said at the beginning, if he does, if he or cannot recognize what they have, or somebody recognized what that man has. It's always like this became the dick-coloring show, because it was not a dick. Like I'm not going to say that a little dick.
No, yeah. And I don't know if it's because I've read the show, and I've read Dr. Slick now, and I have such an understanding. I know what to call her in.
Yes, and I know what to call her in. And it was when the scene where the box is starting to get unlocked, and it's his grandfather. And I am having palpitations, because I know from reading the show, and obviously how fucking hard it was for him to get them boxes locked on that man, that man, tortured him, like physically, mentally tortured him. And for to get his ghost in that box, it took some fucking work.
So when it was getting unlocked, I was like, no, that, no, I was literally screaming that the telly this can't be happening. This cannot be happening. And I was like, what's going on? And I had to explain to him, and I was like, it was too difficult for him.
So when he's done the bones, when he's had the tea from, from Raw's, that doesn't lock things away in a box. It kind of, it's kind of setting the radio frequency differently. That's my, that's my, that was my interpretation. It was mine as well.
The, the, the, the Herp she gave is exactly the same as what might give to, um, Bill in the other one, if you notice the same kind of, the same camera movements were used when he took that herb. And I think it was, I think it was to drown them out, was to clear his brain. But that possibly could help him be able to start locking people back up again. Cause he teaches Danny, um, I think it's the beginning of Dr.
Sleep, he teaches Danny how to do it. So he's got a damn panda by the time we get to his encounters with Danny tolerance. And so at this stage, it might be too fairly new for him, but it's a technique. He created himself.
Yeah. And there's so many beautiful shots of beautiful moments with Dick, um, like the shot when he takes the tea, um, and he's kind of like, you see him coming up with his own mouth. That is just one of the most like, this is what, uh, Dr. Strange and the multi-verse of madness wanted to do stuff like this.
This was how clever that was and Sean different, different worlds and different plans. Um, the fire scene. Oh, that was horrific. One of the, like again, this is when this, this was firmly, because again, this could have been classed as team.
Let's be honest, there was seems like a little bit shopping, but it was more down to like the CGI than the thing when we got to the black spots, and the fire was raging and everything's going on. And people's getting headshots, people's getting blown away, people's getting a certain fire. And in the middle of that, this is where we get the most terrifying version of Pennywise. Yes.
It takes a little advantage of the situation and the whole thing with the black spots. So if you've watched the films and it's to reference to quite a lot. It's God, why can't I remember any of the bloody losers club? Ben, Ben's the one because Ben is much as my.
It's like the story. Yeah, but it's Mike later on, but it's Ben initially, and he's the one who talks about the black spot. He also talks about the natives as well, who came to Darian all went missing. That's where people think we're heading to.
Is that part next? Um, but yeah, he mentions the black spot and when it, when they are standing outside, which did you notice the mask that they had on? They were all the monster masks from the book that Pennywise changes into. Um, so yeah, they were terrifying.
The minute they stand and outside, the minute they stand and outside, I said, and this is going to get dark very, very quickly. And I don't like where this is going. And when they went in and he just, he said he's been in the water. I went, that's not the end of it.
I don't know. You know, it's going to be fire. There's going to be fire. And I was like, Oh God, this is going to get awful.
This is going to get so bad. And then to chuck the situation is already shit to start with. And then Chuck fucking Pennywise in the middle, just chomping away and having a meal. Like that was even worse.
And to come with one of the most horrific, like, supposedly read the most quote of the lines coming from this. Have I got fierce on my face? He did have some brilliant lines in there, man. Tough crowd.
Yeah. Yeah, that was the black spot scene was truly horrific. Kind of didn't show a dick in a great light either. And but understandable where he was he was seen a strip between a rock and a hard place.
Does he grow up? Does his mind completely get fucked up in order to like see if these people, it just got very, very muddy for him in that point. And I think he did the best he could get in running and have somebody else have all running in a dad out. Yeah.
But Richard and Meghan. No, that was one of the again, an interesting point point was it's the adorable character. He's like the optimist. He's the person that can see light through everything.
That was why he kind of I love them in the loser club because he's got everyone's just like doing gloom and we've got the worst time in the world. And he's just like, all right, I've got some new friends. He says, this is the best time in your life. Tell him tell him, tell him, Marge about his best year of school and how he completely fell in love with our and it was just so sweet.
And I'm what tonight to say. Oh, don't want to go there. I'll stop crying. You can't tell us what the nights do.
It looks like the Fermiadans. Oh, that's right. I was saying that whole scene was a blur. I cried all the way through it.
I cried all the way through that scene. I cried all the way through the same time I watched it. You spoke me bit that I was hoping you would say I was hoping you would say it. I was hoping you would say it.
I was like, I was like, no, no, to pissing jars. That's what I was going to say. You just want to tell me that's all the way. I ruined it.
I ruined it. It's the phrase that we usually use on the cat's way. You ruined it. You ruined it.
Yeah. The that whole scene that that whole that that I really was devastated when I was in Teddy and Phil weren't coming out of that first episode. And I was like, oh, Christ, this is like, what the fuck does that mean? But then when you get rich, come in and what's my status?
I called him. We're not doing more with him. I'm really, really not. And will will when we got will coming in and it kind of like a lovely, dynamic just really works.
And the fact that it's predominantly female as well, I was like, yeah, it's got guys. And but yeah, rich was such a character. I just realized something as well. So can I just try to work this out?
So we'll get Teddy. Phil, Ronnie, Lily. So that's for Marge six, not five. Sorry.
Then the other two. So we had to look even over seven in total. Yeah. In total, there was seven kids.