Hello, my dear friends. It's time to wham once again. Wham like you're on a bus to Yoka, just spending your entire time just wondering about the world, the mattery, and the magic of a town called Yoka. Welcome. Welcome, welcome, welcome. If you're doing detours for this thing, we need bus whammers. Bus whammers. Just wham another bus to Yoka. Good. No, as a...
Look behind the hood here. We haven't recorded in a wee while just because there's summer holidays and being a parent and stuff hasn't been a huge amount of free days. But I have sat on a Yoka joke now for the best part of six weeks. So I am real happy to get that out there now. It's always good. Again, nothing ever goes to waste. Just put it away. There's always a moment you can bring it out and just unleash it on there. Absolutely.
Of course, of course. It's just, summer's busy. But now that we're out of summer, I am spending my time planning all sorts of ridiculous things, because you'd think I'd just rest some laurels for a bit, wouldn't you? You'd think you would, but no, absolutely not. It's difficult to get the brain to shut down sometimes, there's always another idea that's in the background. Yeah, absolutely. And I've got about three of them that are currently pre-planning stages, so keep your eyes open, there's weird shit coming. But on this Busty Yoga today, I, as always, am Adam, and with me is Andy T.
Hello. And we are going to be looking at issue 32 of Warhammer Monthly, where we have a return of Stern. You did the rhyme in there. I did. A little bit tortured.
Fair play for trying. So, published date of July 2000. Cover is by Kev Walker as if there was absolutely any doubt. It's a very Kev Walker. It's super Kev Walker. It's highly Kev Walker. And do you know what I really like about it, Andy? No. Background. It's a nice flat blue. It's almost like he knows how to compose an image with decent colour choices. Yep. Yep. The title stands out. I mean, I wouldn't have gone for that shade of red at the very top, but yeah, it stands out.
The red on the masthead is, yeah. Yep. That's what Kev Walker did. No, that is the longstanding take to take a shot if we talk about the design and production of the comic and then end up having some kind of alcoholic comb up at the end of it because there's always something. But again, it's a nice image. The colour is what catches you rather than the actual image itself. It's not dynamic. It's just it feels down looking badass holding up a bolt rifle. Bolt gun of some description. I think it's got a bolt launcher for the size of it. It's freaking huge. But Kev Walker does draw his...
his guns to be massive. Well, again, that's what happens when you spend several years on ABC Warriors for 2000 AD. There's a lot of big guns in that. There's something about the weathering of it as well that really just tickles my brain. This is a weapon that's been used. Again, it's the used universe thing of Alien and Star Wars. And to be fair, silent running as well a little bit. These are the game changers in science fiction. Before everything was always, oh, we'll just make it plain shiny or white or what have you. And it's like, well, no, things get used. They should look lived in. They've had a life beyond what you're seeing on the screen. No, absolutely. There's always...
There's a lot to be said about putting that detail in for your brain to make the connections. Then it's something that you don't see much with CGI, unfortunately, when it's a physical set, which I'm going to go to town here. Topic is over here. This is where I'm going now. Just so you know, I recently watched the Mortal Kombat 2 movie. Not Annihilation, that one's shit, but the actual Mortal Kombat 2. I won't. I'm not going to say. I've always had a great time with Mortal Kombat Annihilation.
It is B movie bullshit, but it is so much fun. I don't care, I had such a crush on the women that played Sindel. I hope I can remember her name. She was in quite a lot of stuff around about that time as well. It was always the last American Gothic for me. But anyhow, right, point I'm going to make. Mortal Kombat 2 does something I haven't seen done in ages, and it was like fingers went into my brain and massaged it into a nice calm state, and that is they are moving around physical sets. There is physical space for them to move around in, and none of it's green-screened until you get to hell. But you can tell when they go to hell. But the fact that there are sets, there are actual goddamn sets, and they look amazing. And it got me thinking that...
There's something to be said about having these sets and the designers making something that fills in little bits for your brain to work on in the background without you ever realising it, that CGI artists don't do. It's the same here. Stern's gun, Stern's armour, it tells a story without you having to tell anything about who she is. End of yet. Something's missing from modern day takes.
It's not as much that CG artists don't do it, it's they're limited to what they can do, so I will stick up for them a little bit, because for anyone that really doesn't know, it's basically a 3D model that stuff has rendered and painted over the brush, stretched over digitally like a skin. If you want to do a pockmark, you've got to physically do dents to the model, you have to change the model and change it throughout, and it's just basically very expensive. That's where it boils down to. But the reason they use CG rather than practical effects is none of the CG effects artists are in unions, so they can get fucked over. And do, constantly, which is how you get things like Disney just absolutely drafting their...
marvel cg guys constantly yeah it's like oh we'll kick you out and then we'll hire you back to the next project but guess what no benefits or it's back to square one whereas if you've been in-house proper production teams yeah it's fucking horrendous 100% the only thing the only thing i'm vaguely hopeful for is because of the ai backlash i think it could filter back to proper full cg afterwards and there'd be a bit more of a demand for because the thing is cg is not bad it is a tool and that's the problem it's always use the tools that are available to you it's like modern comics someone decided doing thought balloons wasn't cool that's a good idea we'll not do it anymore no no no it's not cool for certain projects it works for everything but you choosing not to use that tool when it's available to you yeah and it baffles me that something like that's it's completely missing from modern day comics yeah so much of the story and so much of like the character's progression and push comes from the thoughts and their thought balloons. It's because they think if we do it through narrated captions it sounds more important, it's more fucking literary. It's like, fuck off! The whole point about comics is it was its own thing. It's a thing that you can't replicate. Books can't do it. Cinema can't do it. TV can't do it. No other form of storytelling can do what comics does. And you know what? That's a fucking strength, not a fucking weakness. You want to make a film, make a fucking film. You want to make a TV series, make a fucking TV series. I want you to make a fucking comic. Fuck off with your failed movie pitches, Mark fucking Miller. Funnily enough, what I was going to say was I put a lot of that down to the authority.
yeah the because the authority went for that i'm not saying that the authority is bad i'm just quickly prefixing this but because the authority went for that big widescreen cinematic feel it removed a lot of the comic book tropes and as a result because of its success those tropes kind of vanished down the line that worked again the thing is it's there's certain things like for example because comics have always done for example was like dark night returns it's all narrated captions rather than that because it's an inner monologue it works in people vindetta there's no sound effects but these work in the specifics of that fucking story it's like if you were to take that wisdom just extrapolate go and read something like Walt Simonson's Thor with no sound effects. No, no, no, no. Made my brain hurt there. No, don't like that. All of these tools, you use them in the right way. It's not that you want every book to have thought balloons all the time. It shouldn't just be none of them. I think there's a lot of experimentation that no longer happens in comics. And I know the one I always go to is Sam and Twitch and how Sam and Twitch, the original Sam and Twitch run, how that really did try to...
play with the idea of overlaying the superhero stuff happening over here. This is the gritty crime drama. But the superhero stuff is still happening all the way over there. And I've always enjoyed the feel, the look, and the brain touch of that series. Because there's so much in there that is experimental. And then you just go to every single one of the McFarlane line from that time doing exactly the same goddamn thing. And you're, no! You're missing the point of what succeeded about Simon Twitch! Yes, that's the thoughts, though. But to go back to another point, while you said the authority wasn't bad, we should be abundantly clear. Warren Ellis is fucking bad, and the country's beginning.
any work and it's annoying that he's getting republished in Biomage cowardly bastards yes no yeah it's a fair point it's one of those things where I very much try not to think about Warren Ellis at all because more than like Neil Gaiman Warren Ellis felt like fucking betrayal yes I mean but when it came out I'd kind of moved past a lot of his work because he had a shtick and I'd enjoyed it but it had gotten boring there's only so many times you can have the cynical smoking self-insert version of him as a lead before you get no they didn't do good work with him but yeah fuck him yeah no absolutely The things that we're not going to be negative about is, I just realized I said that completely wrong, to continue being negative, let's open the cover. Are you drunk? Are you dead? So we'll skip over this very quickly. So what you get is the two idiots do the thing. That's it. You're sidebar with little bits of what it is. Your next issue within reach has, I think, a crop panel of what I think is Leonidas reaching out, probably for the blade incarnate. The reason you know it's Leonidas is because he has the Wesley Snipes blade haircut. Yeah. And also because he doesn't have an eyepatch on and he doesn't have horns. We are down to three blood angels at this point. Possibly less at the end of this one.
yeah so we get a little bit telling us what we've got telling us demonifuge sacrifice to my ultramarines hey that's remith over more time julian markland are back and obviously blood quest yeah and we also have the letters page and there's something that you really wanted to point out about the letters page isn't there oh i actually read the letters page bizarrely normally i skim over it yep same the first letter uh for douglas scott douglas scott we will i'm sure you meant you meant no harm but Carl Jericho, Wayne Reynolds art is great. Sorry, Carl Kopinski, but Wayne's art is much better, so it's Carl Jericho. No, it doesn't. It's good. It's different. But Kopinski was better, objectively. Yeah. There's no argument to be had there. Absolutely no argument at all. And I keep reading it as Doug Ray scoffed, and I keep thinking about it. That's what you were doing at Mission Impossible 3. What they also have is... So we're going to skip the second letter, because I'm going to let Adam read that out in a minute. So...
what we then have is another one for now this is not going to be a dig at the person who wrote this because i'm assuming they're trying to be in character but this is clearly an editorial thing that you are ourselves and there's no two ways about it so you're gonna read the letter out so dear pray things i was leafing through your periodical and i noticed two things firstly crude creatures like monkey and orcs dominate the pages why not stories of the dark elder the connoisseurs of death and pain I agree with my Dark Elder tale. Also, the lack of variety amongst the scripts. Although Abnett and Rennie do fine work for Monkey, there must be more than two writers able to do justice to your pages. Good point. Yeah, very good point. I'm absolutely loving it up to this point. Archer commissioned more scripts from the other writers, such as the undoubtable Lord Pat Mills. Though I'm not sure about Debbie Gallagher, when she should know their place. No. No. I get the gag he's trying to do. That's clearly something about fucking cloth-eared motherfuckers. That needed to be just...
You could have edited that letter or just gotten rid of it entirely, but that has no place. I don't think that comes from a bad place as such. I mean, the underlying thought process is bad. Don't get me wrong here. But I think when writing this letter, this person was trying to be in character, being amusing, trying to make a smile and chuckle. But especially in 2026, that lands with such a clunk. There's no place for it. Absolutely no place.
Yeah. It should have been edited. It really should have just been, it should have ended at Lord Pat Mills, May your slaves be fruitful and multiply, Balthazar's Cheshire. And that's it. It's just like, again, that's totally, editorial should be going, no, because it's like, is this one of these stupid, oh, we're going to try and courage debate in the letters page? No, no, it's not. Well, the thing is, it's something that US comics used to be guilty of quite a bit, but UK not so much, and what we've seen in this is, no. If it was trying to, if being a great result of this page, if it was trying to do something like that, there would be something in the response to draw attention to it or to get people
but the only thing that is there is like if you're if he's basically talking about monkeys if he's Eldar there's like you are aware that's not really a patriarchy in any real way shape or form especially the Dark Eldar yes yeah it's like What I think is disappointing is that the fact that the response is, hey, that'll get the script slaves rattling their chains back in your pens, you dogs. Whilst you could have had a response along the lines of, there's no need to be sexist, all are welcome to chaos. You don't have to break the format that you've got, although I wish they would, but you can do something with the response in order to point out that no, that's not okay. And granted, we are looking at this with 2026 looking back 30 odd years, but even in 1999, that should not have flown. Yeah.
yeah that's true yeah we're in the 2000 that shouldn't fly it just shouldn't it's like congratulations we are it is the one is the one thing that any kind of subculture which is what 40k was at the time and to be honest still is but the bullies are worse because most of them have been the victim of bullying in some way shape or form even if it's just a mild oh we please we fucking we metal dollies it's like off with that You should want as many people doing the thing that you do, because it means that it's viable, it's vibrant, it's growing, rather than being, well, as we are old enough, any Warhammer club or that you went to was an absolute sausage fest. Now, weirdly, the Workington one was, yes, absolutely men outnumbered women completely. We had a group of four classics who had come to it of various ages, from a range of 16 to maybe about 28, 29, something like that. And they all came to it completely over their own thing. They weren't friends. They weren't people that knew each other. They all came to it completely. So in a club of...
30 people you know you had three or four coming to it and that it's one of those things where as i've gone to other clubs and things over the years i found that that is an outlier that's not how it was for the majority of people now saying that it's still male dominated but the ratio is much much higher for clubs nowadays the local one we've got here it's nearly half half and that's it's such a good thing to see yeah and that's ideally what it should be again it's not that you're forcing people to like it but it should just be if you want to get into this thing then it's easy congratulations if you're if you're vaguely interested you're in and that's it That's the entry qualification. Do you like the thing? Yeah, you're in. And you can be in as much as you want. There's lots of things. I do not touch the fandom with a barge pole. But I like the thing. Aside from a couple of conventions I went to with friends who I know, I get all of my fandom information secondhand. It's a horrible fandom, if I'm being brutally honest. It's quite toxic. So I just never... It didn't make... Me, as a guy, when I got back into Doctor Who, I'd have been a guy at the time. For those that don't know, I've recently let the world know I'm trans. It's been a bit of a journey. So don't worry if you miss anything at this point.
Adam was the one that got the chat on Sunday night. So at the time, I'm a 30-something guy that's got... No, not 30, I'm 20-something. I wasn't quite 30. I got back into the doctor in a bit. Go. Yeah, I know. My bones are evaporating. So I kind of... So I went... So at that point, I was like, okay, fine, let's go and see what the other fandom... What the fandom's like. Yeah, after about 20 minutes, it's like, I really don't want to be here. And then I'm thinking, can you imagine what that would be for... In any sort of fandom, if that's your experience in...
At that point, I'm kind of the bulletproof that I should be applied in without any bother, with all the privilege my station accords me. And I was like, no, no, you don't need to. I will read a couple of news pages and any fandom nonsense can get filtered via friends who do engage with it on some degree and keep me informed. Other than that stuff, no, it's still not a Who fan. That's it. You like the thing, you like the thing. Absolutely. And it took me far too long to kind of get my head around the idea that you can enjoy the thing without having to engage with the wider audience, without being part of the bigger community.
It's not entirely necessary because it doesn't often detract from the thing that you enjoy because you get so many bad experiences. I don't want to say that's all the way through. Not at all. There are many fandoms I enjoy being a part of and they're all for very small things. But the larger something gets, the more chances are that you're going to have bad experiences and you don't want that to affect how you enjoy the thing that you're enjoying. And it's also that I need to comment on, oh, I hate this thing. It's like, really? I appreciate it. There's so much negativity out in the world right now. Why add to it? Do the Kurt Vonneg, you know, go for a walk to buy a stamp.
Which, if you don't know that, go look that up, because it's an absolutely beautiful mindscape. I'm going to move on to the... This is the second of the four letters. The fourth one's not really worth commenting on. It's just basically saying thanks for more time. It's like, well done, mate. But the reason we're... I'm going to let Adam read the letter out in his entirety. No preamble. No, no, I'll go straight. I'll explain why I'm asking Adam to do this, because we talked about this just before we start recording. So he knows why. Oh, dark and mystic scribes of fantastic law, I humbly submit to your righteous gaze my writings, which, though not heretical, may I hope, with the Emperor's blessing, find a way in your glorious pages.
So, the reason I asked Adam to read that is because... For anyone who has read or listened to Adam before, Adam wrote that. He claims not, but it's fucking him. Now, to be fair, the only reason I know I didn't write into, well, mostly to my memory, is that I did not get a box of Orknobs, which is what they're giving away for every letter. Unless it got lost in the post. Unless it got lost in the post, yeah. I mean, granted, by this point, I wasn't buying Warhammer monthly anymore. I would have come out of it. My brother would have been, but I probably would have stopped buying it myself when I was reading his copy, so. It's Adam.
So if by some quirk of the imagination, of fate, that Colonel Munro of the 23rd Cat of January is a listener, I need you to email us in. Because I think we need to get you on the pod to have a chat. Absolutely. I see how Adam like you are now. Is this like William and Thomas Riker?
Was there a transport accident? Well, to really go back into a fairly deep thing, do you remember the Spice of Life experiences from many years ago where I was everywhere and people would send me pictures of me from not only around places they were going. I mean, Ralph sent us a picture of somebody that he saw in a cafe, took a photo of them and sent me it going, is this you? You've sadly been eclipsed over the years. But yeah, I do remember the Adam Nickle doppelganger. Phenomenon.
also still the best though at the lego show really just friend friend of ours ralph burns lad we were at a go to lego show in swindon frequently pre-covid and we were both we were both there and we wandered around there was a guy doing demonstration around a model a lego model train setup and the spitting image of ralph but not just in his looks it's the way he moved he walked like ralph it was probably it was properly unsettling you're like you don't have a brother do you you fucking do it was freaky but yeah the adam nickel doppelganger was a thing for a while it was for about two years i've got like a folder just full of pictures of people have sent me and the best one is the 1976 forming of microsoft because there's a guy in there i myself i'm not sure it's not me it's freaky so basically what you're saying is that some indeterminate time you may have traveled in time and helped make microsoft apparently this does mean you are a legitimate target for termination oh yeah i'm aware but Then I got my hair cut short and started getting a more professional looking beard when I cared about my job.
Not long after that, somebody found a picture of Bram Stoker on the back of Dracula, and that was a moment. It was so uncanny that I had it as my Facebook picture for a little while for a laugh, and an ex-girlfriend of mine realised it wasn't me three years after the fact. So, yeah, here's the thing. There's a framed picture of Bram Stoker in my office now that the people I work for gave me for my birthday. So, yeah. I think we've done enough preamble, so we're going to go into the first of our strips. So, wisely, they are leading off with the cover feature, which is no bad thing, so we have Demonofuge, book two, part one.
The Lord of Damnation. Or should I say, chapter one. Adam. Overblown introduction coming now. We are DemonaFuge, book three, part one. We opened in media res with Stern reflecting on her impending death while taking heavy fire. She flashes back to her isolation on the frozen world of Pardis, where she spent eight months surviving after the destruction of her ship. Reduced to primitive survival instincts, she hunted local beasts for food and warmth while battling the brutal cold. During her exile, Ethereal realizes, experiences a dark-sighted dream contact with Silius, a former ally.
Reduced to a tortured state. Silas frantically warns her that they know she is still alive. Realizing her mind holds knowledge too dangerous to be lost if she perishes. Ethereal compiles her vast forbidden insights regarding the forces of Slaanesh into a heavily encrypted journal. Bound in steel and consecrated in her own blood. The Stern Codex. As the harsh winter in Parnas deepens, he...
This is alright, innit? Right, so what we're going to do is we're going to get the elephant out there and right off the way, it's like, I had a Kev Walker cover. I was promised Kev Walker. I did not get Kev Walker. No, Cal Richardson.
He's somebody I don't know anything about. I've never come across his word before, to my knowledge. Give me two seconds, because I had the tab up earlier, and then forgot, and closed it. But I had seen him on other stuff before. But he is very much doing it in the style of. Yeah, he's very much trying to mimic Kev Walker's style. Now, it doesn't quite work, but it's not bad. I think it's always the thing of that whenever you're getting an artist to do...
to ape someone's style now there are certain people who are very good at it i'm not bad at it to be honest there are certain styles i can do in my sleep there are certain artists who are very good at aping lots of different styles and funnily enough kevin walker himself would then would later go on to slightly ape the uh mike mignola it's still noticeably his style but he takes the the inking approach yeah yeah if you're an artist and you're doing something that's not natural to you you're fighting against your own instincts yeah So it can mean that it's not always easy second nature. Let's say this isn't a bad job. Let's be clear. We're not digging out Carl Richardson for this. It's solid, but it lacks, I think, some of the confidence. And there is a slightly bolder line on Kev Walker's work that isn't present here. But that might also be that that's Carl Richardson's normal design. He has done stuff for 2008. He does cover some stuff. So he is a very good artist. But this just feels very much like he's trying to do his line work, but with the...
keeping it in feel of the monofuge which i can see why they would have done it i can see why they wouldn't there's not a right or wrong answer for this and like i say it's not it is just purely that you have kev walker so it's one of these things as always if you've got an artist you like which i do i've always loved kev walker stuff is when you don't get kev walker you know you could add kev walker you're like this is very much bullseye moment here this is especially with the cover but no it's good art the storytelling is good unlike kev he is not using 3d elements to it there are some photoshop stuff in there because the background is a tile that's been put in which is fine work smart or not harder kids no problem you want to do something there's a background detail but not the story itself is it's fine i do like obviously silas coming up from the I'm assuming it's the drinking water and not the toilet, because it's an awful big bowl. Yes, I assumed it was a well. The entire thing of Silas coming out of the water in this dripping, horrible gunk that he is, I really like that. It's a rainy mess. It's Frank out of Hellraiser. Yeah.
Yeah, you can kind of feel it running through your fingers. It's really gunky and horrible, and there's a slightly sticky-tacky feel to him that I really like. It's yum-yum-yum-yum. I say yum-yum-yum-yum, that's probably the wrong way of describing it. I don't want to lick him, but it's such a lovely piece of texturing, and you really get across the idea that he is tortured in the afterlife. He's not found peace in any way, shape, or form. I like that. Yeah, we're not kinkshaming here. This is not a place. Look, if I want to lick flayed people, I'm going to lick flayed people. Like I said, I'm not yet kinkshaming, so...
The interesting bit is I'm writing my own book of Slaanesh in my own blood, and it warps it. So you're basically just making a very specific evil necronomicon from Evil Dead. I mean, I can't remember how the story goes. However, I can't imagine it's going to go well if you've got, oh, by the way, I've got this warped demon book. Who made it? I did. You're in the Pain of Chaos, are you?
Yes. Yes, I am. Yes, because I put it all in the book, you see? I've been journaling. Yes. It's one of these ones that's like, yeah, that's not ending well. Because you can't tell anyone you've got this book, because you're just getting a bolt right through the face. Well, the thing is that Black Templars have turned up as well. So the moment they see her, they should be just going, well, you smell heresy. Bang.
It's like, Black Templars, yeah. It's like, we just want to make slightly more puritanical Dark Angels. Yeah, fuck off. And you've got an inquisit on them, so it's basically, hello, we are the Shitebad Marines. We are just going to be horrible. Yeah, and the Black Templars are dead. I've got a theory that's served me well over the years, which is don't trust anyone who runs a Black Templar army. Yeah, it's a weird one, and obviously the reason they haven't shot her is for the narrative, for the story, and that's fine. And to be fair, they don't know it's a demon book yet. She has quite wisely not opened up with the, I've got a demon book that I wrote.
Instead of what kept you, it's hello. You might remember Silas Hand, who was taken away by huge amounts of chaos power and demons. Here's a book I wrote about it. How are you doing today? I will say that on the last page...
And I know it isn't, but it doesn't have to look like the guy in the background is somebody's gun that's accidentally been thrown forward in the second panel where they all pull their bolts out. There's a guy in the far distance and the first time I looked at it, it looked like somebody had accidentally thrown their gun when they pulled it up. I'm just going to say right now, Carl Richardson, that's not Squad Cahedons. He's going to have to roll at the end of the turn. Yep. Everyone else looks like they're fine. He's clearly not within two inches of his next teammate. No, he's about to break and run. That's it. Yeah, I can see what they're doing because it's just like we're going to have some mists and stuff here. Yeah.
arms and what have you to be honest i would have just left them out it's one of these things about when you're doing art it's like you kind of want consistency so i can see why carl's done it it's like there's that many marines already on show need to show them all but you want to get the idea of the overwhelming force that's that she's dealing with the only thing is i love the sound effects but i just kept reading it in the voice of the aliens from mars attacks on that part of the second panel i did quite like as a sound effect because the way it's done it does look like it's just been written on a wall rather than it's a sound effect and yeah what it needs for me what i would have done is punctuation exclamation mark and i would have just done a few motion lines around it just to really sell it's the clang of because she clearly just rattled that staff onto mel yeah don't know your staff on cybertron i really enjoyed this it's not the heights of demonifuge but also it's not bad you've had a break from it so you're kind of having to reset give us a new status quo reset it and you're kind of putting some familiar elements back into play which is yep we've clearly got our antagonist for the book other than selection chaos is going to be the inquisitor because well they're all
yes yes they are the inquisition just question one are you an asshole yes no yeah putting the tempers in actually does make sense of given they are quite puritanical in terms of i know they kind of bend more towards that crusading questing thing but there's enough of it hoves close enough to yes you are the foot soldiers of the spanish inquisition which a lot of the marine chapels actually map onto because there is a lot of yeah you are being being obviously a hyper-violent religious order. They all are. It fits nicely into, again, Knights Templar, Spanish Inquisition. Pick any other religious army slash police force of your choice from history. There's lots of them to pick from. They are a good fit. Because you can kind of get the feeling of, once it gets revealed that he's not actually one of their battle brothers, they just won't care. Whereas, you know the other chapters, most of the other chapters, also the big chapters, if you will, would have something to say about it. Even the Ultramarines. I will say,
One of the things I really like about it is how the Space Marines are ever so slightly off model. There's the grill on the front of the face is slightly too big and it's got a real Rogue Trader feel to it. And it's on the final page, the top panel, there's a guy who's really close to the camera and the grill is massive. I love it. I love how ridiculously huge it is. Yeah. Shades, again, hewing to kind of the top, not just the old medieval knights, but the Kev O'Neill Terminators from AB, which were quite a foundational influence on a lot of 40K stuff. Just a little bit.
Not so much miniature designs, but in terms of a lot of the artists, because they were all in and around that scene at the time. Yeah. The artists and the foundational texts that built 40K, a lot of that comes from a lot of people who are obviously big fans of Nemesis the Warlock, as all right-minded people should be. Yep. Books one to nine. Chef's guess. Everything else. Readable, but yeah, one to nine. Yeah. 100%.
there's not really any kind of big standout points to really kind of get into as such this is your again as a reset scene making sure that oh you remember all this yep let's get this back to the forefront of your mind let's set up again as a new jeopardy for her not just the jeopardy of her own making when she's made her own demon book don't do that my head was far less valuable than the information it carried and then try and forget because not good yeah it's like I've got this massive authority on Slaanesh I was like yeah that's nice tell you what's going to happen at the end of that is that book's going to get set on fire and so are you You might be holding the book when you're both on fire. Who knows? Let's find out. It's an adventure. To set up the lay of the land, it's a nice opening start. It's a nice opening salvo. I enjoyed that. What I like about it is it's not...
It's not that it's low-key, but it's not throwing everything at once. It's just, get going. Because realistically, this is, she's trapped, how do you get her off-planet? Now you know how she's going to get off-planet. But it's not just a, here's the wrinkles about you getting off-planet, which is there's an Inquisitor here, the Black Templars are horrible twats, and you've got a demon book that you made, and other people are after you as well, which we kind of knew would be happening anyway. Although, I would say this, Septimus Grinch, maybe it's just he doesn't want to break cover or something, but the moment he sees her, shouldn't it be a, well, where's Sir Silas and you, demon-worshipping bitch, I'm going to shoot you now? Because that's how the Inquisitors would work. But then again, saying that,
We'll have to wait until the next part to see how he actually responds to it. Yeah. But once they reveal themselves, however, he can do more when she doesn't know he's an Ingressor. Oh, true. Very true. He's at that point, he can find out as much as he needs and then...
I do like the fact that he's questioning what they're up to. I'm still unclear to our objective here. We follow our captain and obey orders, as always. Had you been with us for long, battle brother, you'd know better than to ask. I quite like the fact that the moment he speaks, they all just turn around like, shut up! Brother Gideon, your tour of duty on terror has dulled the luster of Templar discipline.
I'm going to have multiple questions of how an Inquisitor is walking around in a Space Marine Power Arm, I like, but we'll get there. We'll see. Well, to be fair, they did get that load out in the game. Third Ed, though. Yeah, Third Ed. He was gone. Yeah, but they didn't have rules at that point, because that took a while for them to get back out, so you'd have been doing proxying on Second Ed and Power Arm. That's true. That's very true. Yeah, I'll put my hands up on that one. In terms of fidelity to the game, the only thing that's wrong is the squad key events on that line. Shall we move on to sacrifice? When you're ready. So...
I've got a couple of questions to ask about this one Andy. okay the first one i'm gonna ask is the big space station at the beginning cgi or actual model that's been photoshopped into place i think cg i think it's a 3d render yeah i'm not sure i mean the ships are all 3d renders but the ships all look like 3d renders there's something about the space station that looks physical i can't quite He's painted over the top of it. Ah, is that what it is? Yeah. It's similar to what Kev Walker did with some of the Manifuse stuff when he was doing that. But it looks like it's 3D. There's a 3D render that's just been painted over. That's fair. That's absolutely fair. Two. Second question. Does this script feel like it's been sitting there for a while waiting for an artist? If Warhammer Monthly was kind of an ongoing US comment, this has the week of an inventory story. Yes. It really does, doesn't it? That's not to say it's bad, but it feels very first year.
yeah it's very much just kind of it's harking back to the classic obviously for most people first learned of space marines through space crusade slash space hulk in terms of civilians those were in the game but you're just harkening back to marines on a space hulk On a mission. It's worth saying, by the way, script by Gordon Rennie, art by Jim Brady, and letters by Fiona Stevenson, because they're always Fiona Stevenson these days. She got a lot of good work out of Wahama Monthly and Inferno. Gordon Rennie, of course, it's a solid enough story. It goes through a fair brisk. It's fairly fluffy, fairly breezy. There's not a huge amount that takes place in it. Dialogue is suitably overblown and wonderful. The art is interesting, because it's not, I'm trying to describe it, it doesn't feel very 40k-y.
what i think you have is two distinct styles in one is because you look at all external stuff and where it's clearly using a lot of 3d elements and modeling and then you go to the interiors and it's all more classic properly painted wash and paints so it's kind of it gives it an off kilter feel which i don't think helps the story No. But I don't think it hurts it too much. My biggest thing about it is, is that I find all of the art just a little bit murky. It is very murky. And this is a really weird one to kind of put my hat on, but what it reminds me of is when magazine covers did game covers, but they didn't have a huge amount to work with. Like, New Machine Sega was big for this. There's a sense of it almost being right, but not quite. If you get what I'm meaning. What I quite like is, like, he does have, he gives the Marines heft. Yes. They feel like they applaud, so it's very much a...
I think he might have played Space Hulk. Well, probably, yeah. Because there's a few of those shoulder pauldrons that are just eerily close. Like, where's the fucking antenna on the back of that? Which I would have popped massively for if he did, by the way. I love those early designs. Yeah, 100% witty on that one.
As you say, there's also one other thing that hurts this story. If you've got an entire book that's black and white, try and space out the story so that the styles between them don't bleed into each other. They need to be distinct enough. They've been reasonably not too bad a lot of the times. I brought this up a couple of times when they have a more open black and white. Yeah. Two very heavy inkwashy...
dark strips one after the other yes and it's if you think about it from the point of view if i and again i always go back to this is potentially someone's first issue so what you want to be doing is this all looks the same which if you're doing one continuous story yes that makes sense if you're doing an anthology no because what you want is to try and ensure that you've got the most possibility of picking someone up and that's why all any good anthology is generally gonna have something that you can't stand or or have little love for i mean it's nice when you get everything singing and dancing it's all you're enjoying it but that won't always be the case but you want something to draw as many people in and I think let's say the placement of this right after it hurts it immensely especially because of the nature of the story. It's a one-off inventory. It feels very... As you say, it feels like it's basically giving you kind of, here's a bit of Space Marine 101. Yeah, yeah. Here's one of the biggest... Yeah, just going in, clearing the place out and having some obvious tactics in order to deal with things. Now, saying all that, I don't think anything here is subpar. Yeah, I think it is a really fun little breezy story. I love the Marine Captain's chin. Like his giant giant antithesis of Space Marine chin. That's how a Space Marine should look in my brain. They shouldn't be handsome. They should be...
close to grotesque and this art style really gets that nicely everything's big everything's heavy to Chaos Commander with his weird goopy slouch that he's got. Yeah, it really works. Really, really works well. But I also completely agree that there should have been something in between them. Having Blood Quest as the second strip, although that would have, I was going to say, that would have really weighted it towards 40k. This entire issue is weighted towards 40k, to be honest with you. It would have given that little bit of a refresher between the two stories, because this is very much the same, not the same style, but the same ambience. It's the same approach, but it's basically a heavily grayscaled, washed, painterly style. And this is entirely editorial, so there's no shade on Gordon.
Jim Brady or John Stevenson that says the editorial should have placed this better this is entirely on them and it's like you want some because what you want is to give each strip the strongest chance for it to stand on its own merits and this is already a hindrance because you know it's a one-off so you're like is this so you've got something that's already lacking a little bit of weight in the eyes of a reader because as we've seen through most of the run of Warhammer with very few exceptions not many of the one-offs have actually been really good not a little bit awful but they've just been there yeah they've just been page fillers yeah so you're kind of like You want to give it a platform to look its best or to stand out. And I'm sure the people have thought that's the best thing on the issue. But again, everyone's tastes are different. But it's just, you want to set everything up to succeed. That isn't being set up to succeed. And that's what gets me looking at it, again, through the 25 years plus hindsight vision. But you look at it and go, no, that should always be a consideration when you're assembling it. Pagination is important. Yeah, completely. I wouldn't say no to some more Jim Brady stuff. I was thinking before we came on, the thing is doing like a space marine stuff with space hulks.
pretty much long overdue on this we're not really touched on it i don't think during the run other than obviously getting deathbringer and the zero issue but i mean it's the thing about also like the space hulk thing taking taking that is in my head so before we were doing that when i was reading this this morning it was like any space mean chapter if they have like a specialist just doing the space hulk like that's all they do is he probably something akin to the colonial marines and aliens like in terms of the act it's like so in my head i was like why don't we have one that's just a chapter just pulp busters oh no you do the other way around you go for dam busters uh with space hulks so make some space busters and that's the original plan for ghostbusters yeah but I mean, there is actually mileage in a good long Space Hulk story, one-off, if you think about the thought about it. Just because you can get that, again, because the Space Hulk, Space Crusade, all that, it's always about. It's the isolation horror, it's the jeopardy, it's slow burn tension. It's actually perfect for a monthly. Oh, yeah. And as far as I remember, anyhow, at no point is there a Space Hulk comic, which is insane. But this ties into a larger question about Warhammer Monthly that we've asked multiple times. What is the point of Warhammer Monthly? Because outside of Mordheim, what have they done that is...
synchronized with their releases what are they doing to try and draw people in from here is the law into here are the games and it until if we ever get the chance to speak to anybody from the editorial team i don't think we'll ever find out an answer to that because it does feel like it's over here doing its own thing the thing is i would generally say they probably wouldn't even remember anyway no it was just a job and and while i imagine there will be emails and the like those will be with games workshop who obviously love sharing backstage stuff about yeah about the mistake or my steps or... That's a weird thing. Warhammer Monday was a success. So, yeah, sometimes it feels like it was a success despite itself. But, yeah, it was successful for a very long period of time. It's just weird that there's no connection in. Like, why is this not a one-off shot story about Space Hulk and Gene Steelers? Because, I mean, Space Hulk wouldn't be on the shelves now for another 70 years. Yeah, because they read it in, what, 96? Yeah, 96. Yeah. So, yeah. It's also a thing of just... It's a classic kind of...
Again, because they weren't really doing the game. Even then, would they have even done it? the only one that exists just because it's a nice backdrop for telling stories. Yeah. And outside of Cal Jericho, I don't think there's another Necromunda story that ever takes place. To my memory anyway. I might be wrong on that one. Because honestly, it's like almost all of these run-offs. It gets in, does its job, but there's not really much, there's nothing in here that makes me want to revisit this again. Which is quite handy because everyone gets killed off. But with the same token, there's nothing in this that makes me go, oh, it's a shame that they're dead. I do have one thing.
that would make me come back to it and that's it's got the proper Thunderhawks in it little space boxes not the big sleek things that you get now proper little space boxes they're proper Thunderhawks they are yep as it should be just basically yeah because all they were was gunships and dropships from Marines they're just tanks that fly that's all the Thunderhawks ever should be yeah but there's nothing in this story that makes you I'd like to see Jim Brady's art again yeah please But I'm not interested. There's nothing in this that makes me go, oh, that's a shame that they died. They just very much are. Yeah. Yeah. There's no real character to anybody. There isn't. The fact that the bomb gets the most character in the entire thing with this little font, which makes me very happy. Yeah, it's fine. There's nothing bad about it. But yeah, there's not much shit really saying. So moving on. More time. Part five. Script by Gordon Rennie. Art by Paul.
That's what I'm calling Paul Peacock. Jaycock. I know. Cheers for that brain. And let us buy Fiona Stevenson. We return to the ever-peaceful lives of Volker and Ulrich in a rough tavern, where a merchant attempts to hire them for protection. Recognising Marguan as a notorious killer, the merchant explains he has stolen a small fortune from Tillian Plageman, who sent fancy cloak and dagger duelists after him, offering a 200-crown retainer to stay alive. Right on cue, the flashy assassins ambush the alleyway, prompting the two to negotiate for an immediate advance before brutalising the killers with straightforward imperial violence.
To keep their paymaster safe during the brawl, Marquand shoves the terrified merchant into a nearby privy hut, a spot so foul that even troll slayers avoid it. Once the assassins unexpectedly scatter, the pair realise the ambush was set up to drive the target into that exact hiding spot where another killer was already waiting inside the pit. The assassin stabs the merchant, leaves out covered in filth and gets promptly kicked straight back down the latrine pit by Marquand. Naturally, he pocketed the 200 crown retainer beforehand, meaning the day wasn't a total waste, even if the client literally went down the toilet. I like this. I like this a lot.
this made me chuckle and it made me chuckle for the most childish thing there's an assassin code and shit which if anybody knows their medieval history this was an actual thing yep Dunning in the privy. Yep. 100%. The fact that people would climb up the... There's a term for it, but I can't think what it is, no. They would climb up the shit pit and stab kings and things. It was a real actual thing, and it made me very happy to see it. The art is gorgeous. The assassins look great. There's a lot of movement to everything. There's a lot of action. And it's got that right sense of humour that I really enjoyed from Gordon Rennie's work. I really like this. Yep. No, I enjoyed it as well. It's also... You could have put this in between the other two, because although it's the ink wash, it's a lot lighter. The grey values are a lot lighter. Again, it also feels... Because it's a much more open story, just in terms of the environment.
Because they're doing a chase, what have you. You've got a bit of space. Things have room to breathe. What I like is also, it's doing the thing with Eileen Markman that's like, yeah, kind of similar to the Cal Jericho thing is you know they're not going to be in jeopardy. but it's also they're not infallible because they basically they lose they just happen to make out like dogs at the end of it and get their money so you know they're laughing but i like the expression the first page i really like it's just the two panel transition on panels three to four of the uh the trader that's looking for their help from the the smug and evil grinning to the oh i'm screwed yeah yeah the the wording is so much fun like you're margaret volker aren't you the same margaret volker who cut to the heart of the duke of swindling while the duchess slept on in bed beside her husband the same margaret volker who And if I was that dread assassin you're talking about, that's not admission by the way, do you think I'd want anyone talking about it? It's just fun. It is pitch perfect. Yeah, it is really fun. There's nothing wrong with pulp. Pulp has its place. And these stories are just perfect bits of pulp. I mean, you have the assassin attack sequence.
And you've got the highway stylus coming out from behind the roofs. You've got one smashing through a window, two of them coming through a wall. And then one of them's been hiding in a barrel. It's great. It's just perfect. It's not drawn attention to. They don't go, what's he doing hiding in a barrel? It's just one of these little details in there, like in the frame before it. You've got all these rats just eating what appears to be a cat. And it's just these little details that are hanging around, this very sketchy style. It's just so...
in my wheelhouse. It's so up my alley, it shot Bruce Wayne's parents. That's the best way to describe it. That's a take. We should have recorded this a couple of weeks ago just ahead of Batman Day. Oh, because that was a thing. Yeah, it was. I know, I know. It's not even the anniversary of Detective Comics 27. So it's like, it should, it should, so we basically decided this day in September is when Bruce Wayne's parents get killed because that is technically my birthday. Which means Bruce Wayne was shot on his birthday. That makes it so much worse. Oh, no wonder they went to see Space Jam. Actual thing, because of DC's sliding time scale, Batman.
could have gone to see Space Jam on the day his parents were shot. Maybe that was a piece of thinking about. Yeah, I mean, once again, there's not a huge amount to kind of get into here, other than it's just tons of fun. They've taken the Cal Jericho style, for want to better terms, the format, and just added it to Mordheim with these two characters. They are their own thing, 100% their own thing. I mean, having Marquard throwing the knife up into the air to kill the assassin that's about to jump on him from above, it's fewer Cal Jericho. But all in all, I just hope that these two continue for a while yet, because I'm really enjoying every issue.
yeah it's the fact that it's it's all just little snippets of it because you basically know more time like we touched obviously they saw the arc of the game as it were and they're quite wisely just they're not playing into that because we know for well is nobody survives long and more time so you know they're on borrowed time and they acknowledge themselves in the first part so the first one stops is like yep we're screwed because we're here because we've got nowhere else to go So it's very much everyone is against the clock. So again, life is cheap, but continue to live. Life is cheap, but these two are expensive. Yeah. Again, it's just, I always look at this, it would be nice if we'd had Mr. Kopinski back for it. It would, it would. I kind of wish that these two had kind of gone on beyond Warhammer. Like they'd gone on to be something because it would have been interesting to see, could these two have held down a longer form story? Now, meaning either a novel or, you know, like a four part actual comic.
Would have just been interesting to see. Are these two able to have that? I don't know. She already could have done something in novel form with them. But again, it's more of a case I wasn't an appetite from GW for it. Look at how few Felix and Gotrek novels actually are, considering that was their go-to.
and it's always I think we've mentioned this before giving you a double act is always good because it means that you can it's why the Doctor always has companions because you can explain things and you can get exposition out of the way in a more organic matter than having someone narrate it or talking to themselves which well people do because we all do it it's in the context of a comic story feels very forced I'm going to keep an eye on that yeah they never got a novel and they never got anything else unfortunately it was just one a month late until issue 63 which makes me happy that's a lot that's a lot of issues and they took oh they turned up in town crier which was the more time magazine that they had okay that's interesting so they turned up in places but not where i expected yeah it's just it's odd to say that i imagine also just looking at from publishing point of view is like you've got limits lots in terms of what you want to do you don't want to you're competing against yourself sometimes if you're saturating the market with products yeah and black library at this point weren't putting out a massive amount of books each year yeah
Yeah, because Gaunt's Ghosts were still, what, two years away from the Heresy? Three, I think, for the first? Yeah, three or four years from Heresy. Gaunt's Ghosts. Gaunt's Ghosts, no. Gaunt's Ghosts. That's...
The first two books would be out by now. There would be... The Troll Slayer. Troll Slayer would be... Already been and gone by this point. Yeah. I'm trying to think. Troll Slayer would have been Skaven Slayer as well. I think they'd have been on Dragon Slayer by June 2000. Rather than get bogged out in this. It's just one of those things where Cal Xerico exploded from Warhammer Monthly and went off to have actual novels and things. Stern.
I'm sure a stone had a retelling of a story as a novel, but I'm not 100% on that. And of course, Darkblade got three novels. There is no justice in this world. We live in a hellscape where the guilty are never punished. As we say, we're probably getting to a point that I would say in the next couple of issues that they may want to rest them and give them a little meatier tale. You kind of have to test it out. This will only get you so far. Not that I'm saying that I'm bored of it, but you will get bored of it. Yeah.
you'll go right and we need just a little bit more meat on the bones but it's good that we're enjoying it just now but it's a case of you you will want to we'll be back on a slightly more ambitious thing because you need to test whether they got legs and clearly did because they were in the in the comic for ages and as i say i'm hoping that we start getting one two three parties out of them rather than just the single shots because as much as i'm enjoying the single shots they they kind of need to see how you know how far you can push them how far you can you can make them into something because i mean the characterization for them is still very two-dimensional it's not they're not well-rounded at all yeah they are archetypes that's all they are very good archetypes but still archetypes i mean i think the thing is unlike say like necromunda where you can kind of a futuristic sci-fi setting is easier to actually just go full boring quickly you're kind of having to set up what more time actually is necromunda you didn't really need to do it it's just like it's it's a horrible sci-fi shitty situation we've seen enough dystopias but you're trying to do this kind of fantasy medieval thing that needs its own identity. And it's kind of one of the things that we touched on and said all of the time with the previous Warhammer stuff is none of it had an identity that felt Warhammer-y. No. So they're wisely taking the time of, as much as Uli and Marquand are things, it's not Uli and Marquand, it's Mortang. Yeah, yeah. So Mortang really is the character. It's like classic Spirit and Dread where, although they're nominally the league, they're sometimes peripherally in it, barely in it, it's everything else around it. Now, they have kind of been more the focus of attention, but they aren't the ones that are instigating the story. People are coming into contact with them, which is instigating the drama and what events that unfold. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And a lot of what you're getting here is, this is what it takes to survive in more time, rather than these two are attempting to survive in more time, if that makes sense. The environment is providing the stories, rather than these two having any real agency in what's been told. And there's nothing wrong with that for one-shots, but as I say, I'm hoping that we start getting some... I think we're in need of it. Keep interest, because...
It's always pulling the trigger at the right moment to make sure it's like, yep, you're now familiar enough with the scenario and the background. Let's go a bit deeper with certain bits. So you can actually start to round out Julian Markovans. Because right now they've got as much depth as Hellbrand Grimm. The only difference is that these two are enjoyable to watch, while Hellbrand is insufferably boring. Correct. Yeah, I've read Punisher. Punisher was never the most interesting part of the Punisher. Right then, shall we move into the final story? Yes, so we are on to some Blood Angels pitch.
Yes, of course, the standout of Warhammer monthly is Blood Quest. I was going to say, how have you taken leave of your senses? Have you taken up on the opium? Is that what's happening? Blood Quest. Chapter 11. Cloden battles a twisted, monstrous reflection of his future self, fighting to overcome the savagery of the Red Thirst. Elsewhere in the labyrinth, Lysander confronts his former brother, Proteus, now a mutated servant of Slaanesh, rejecting his seductions and mourning him as truly lost.
At the Labyrinth's heart, Captain Leonidas discovers an illusion mimicking the Great Chapter Hall on Baal, where Xici's champion, Eidolon, reveals the entire quest for the Bloodblade was a trap to recruit Leonidas to replace him. Eidolon demands he yield or fight alone, but Lysander and a transformed Cloten arrive to stand by their captain, both having conquered their personal trials. Reunited and resolute, the three Blood Angels prepare for their final battle against Chaos. This is really cool. Genuinely, when the twist happened, I was like, what?
Because I had no inkling that this is where it starts. This is great. I mean, not being funny, but you're in the 41st millennium, I'm sure, given how hellish the universe is at that point. LinkedIn's still around. Oh my god. Yeah. Where to even begin? We'll go in order with Clotin's witch. Yeah. So we can kind of see he gets to face off against the personification of his self. We've got no idea how big his bobe is because there's a discreetly placed knee pad blocking Clotin's demon bobe. Yeah, but it's not blocking the dropping hair that's coming down, which means that...
Future Clotin does not shave. I know that one. That's some severe demon dangleberry. Could be demon dangleberry. I'm sure I saw demon dangleberry open for Cradle of Hills in 1994. How dare you take the name of my fursona in vain. I kid, I kid. I don't have a fursona. I have no shade on thurs. You're all good. Yeah, absolutely. The shit you've done to the American government will go down in history as being amazing. I do love how Clotin's demon self is just basically. He's just literally and figuratively jumped out of the fire. As in right off the cover of Metallica's Trump. Oh yeah.
it's funny because I was looking at it going oh my god I'm sure that's like one of the early pieces of artwork from Blizzard's Diablo it's it is a quintessential big 80s style demon it's giant maiden as hell I love it oh yeah I mean just because it's a cliche doesn't mean you should always shy away from it because sometimes they're fun to play with and again so what you've got here is your Clawton's got his Superman 3 moment whoops so he is while Adam recovers as from the synopsis goes up against the personification of how far he could potentially fall because as a blood angel he's fighting the red thirst he has also consumed demon blood as you can see as the battle grows he gets hornier no pun intended because the horns do start to grow they do they do and you get a nice silhouetted thing off camera so it's unclear it's purposely left unclear as to what happens at this point yeah we know later on he wins but there's no need for a big over uh soul searching kind of nonsense it doesn't fit for clothing he's quite direct and quite basic so it's like no no okay i'm seeing what i could become i'm not fucking having this let's go
Yeah. The scratch art that's your sound effect. Yeah. You know, basically, the temptation for a writer to do more navel gazing, but it would just be wrong. It just wouldn't fit the character. Basically not. It's like, how can I not become myself? Or become this? I'm going to fight it. How am I going to fight it? I'm going to tear a fucking thing apart. Again, you don't have to lampshade it, or explain, or have him do that. You just know he's going to do it. The narration's just enough. It's just like, nope, his own future self. I love the fact that...
The column deals with this amazing thing of mirroring Clotin now as he's mutating to the thing that he will become. It's a really smart piece of work, and it's really simple. It's just like the way the horns are placed, the way his teeth are. It's just enough to be able to really see that that is what Clotin's future holds, and it's chef's kiss. And so then we move on to Proteus and Lysander having a little chat. Lysander gets the best dialogue through all this. I was lost, Lysander. Lost all my life and blind all around me. A slave, blinded by lies about honour and duty.
Then my mistress found me and opened my eyes to the endless glories of chaos. I have been set free, Lysander. I have been transformed. If only you could see the things I've seen. If only you could experience the pleasures I have experienced. Join me, brother. Come with me and such freedom can be yours, too. You! You died like ten minutes ago, so what? But obviously, it's not a physical representation of him.
As he is now, it's a future. This is him down the line, not just him who's just literally fallen to chaos ten minutes ago. But that dialogue is amazing. It's also just the staging's good, and it's also the fact that rather than fight, he just walks away. Again, he puts the chainsaw up to his chest, and then just goes, no, done. You're the slave, not me. I'm going. You've lost everything that you are. I pity you, Chaos thing. And I will mourn for my battle brother Proteus, for I know now he's truly lost to us forever.
And it's, I mean, it's not the Space Marine way, because that's chaos. But for the internal story that's being told here and these characters, it works really well. It's a great moment of, I just, I turn my back on you. I warn you, you are dead to me. Yeah, it's like the Ghost of Christmas Future has turned up for each of them. Yeah. You boy, it's chaos day, sir. You see that spawn in the shop? Go bring me it. So obviously, two out of three, we're fine. So we get to Leonatus, who just happens to be confronted by the blade, fallen Dark Angel, and what looks like Lord Mephiston. And no, it's just Eidolon wearing his face. Yeah.
But what I really love is the face of him on the second panel. It's that kind of smug... Swamy, swamy bastard. It reminds me of... It reminds me of P. Craig Russell's work. He has a great... Because he did, obviously, a lot of Elric stuff for Dark Horse. It evokes shades of that. Proper chaos. Moorcock chaos. Yeah, yeah. One that Games Workshop striped mine for. But yeah, it's a nice thing. You've got, obviously, the tale of the fallen Dark Angel. So it's like, yep, he was one of Luthers. So, which...
which we suspected. Yeah, and once again, it's just great. I am disappointed you do not appreciate my master's jest, Lord Leonatus. Do you not find it amusing that your quest should end where it began, here in the hall of your chapter fortress? It's like you pack of bastards. And it just turns out the Dark Angel wants free of servitude. Yeah, I would be released from his service after 10 millennia if I found another to take my place, another warrior to lead my master's armies. The sword was always a lure to bring you here. Welcome, Leonatus. Your blood quest is over. You have proven yourself worthy to take my place at my master's side.
All you need to do now is swear yourself to my master's service. Will you yield willingly, or shall I drag you crawling and broken to beg at his feet? It really really gets across just what Chaos Marines are. And it's just overblown. But because they are so long-lived, because they've seen so much excess, there's a sense of disconnect from reality. There's also the bit about them is that they are also such absolute armed bitches. Oh yeah.
Obviously, chaos undivided, not so much. But once you've sworn fealty to one of the powers, that's it. You are just a fucking lackey. It's always an odd disconnect that not really a lot of... Not much 40k goes into their servitude. They just seem to accept it. For basically warrior gods who were told they were the best of the best, then it suddenly bend the knee. There's not enough of them being unhappy about it or struggling on the yokes. Even if you look at the heresy when Mortarion falls, that's purely for desperation and arrogance that he doesn't want to die. That he drives them that way.
very much seems to be like, oh, we've just, we've gone to you. Like, I can see, like, Fallout of Corn's a bit different, because that's just like, you go that mad that you're just, you're tipped over the edge. But like, swearing allegiance to Zinch, to LaNesh, even Nurgle is like, Yeah, why would you be happy doing that? You get things like, you know, Fulgrim's very happy with his current life because of all the stuff he gets to do. Then you get someone like Fabius Bile, who is so against chaos that he refuses to accept demons as being real things. He's just like, you're just a war manifestation. Why would I even bother dealing with you? And that's great stuff. But he's very much an outlier. I would say...
him and abaddon really are pretty much about the only two that you really see in terms of like reasonably prominent chaos in the lore that just like no we're not having this it's like you're a tool i'm not worshipping any you assholes this was a sorcerer thousandth and sorcerer aroman aroman's kind of there as well but that's more to do with the fact that he's pissed off that he got tricked all of his mates are dusty yeah But so few other ones are like, no, no, we'll just take that on. That's all good. And it's like, yep, you're just now slaves. Yeah. Because it's like, you swore your oath to the Emperor. And then you, like, I could see the point if they went, if they hadn't been, but it's like, you broke one oath. So you were unhappy with the yoke of that. Enough of you were with the Warmaster out of circumstance rather than actual, yeah, I'll actually like his goals. But you're just, you weren't rid of the Emperor. But then after that, you're like, and obviously you saw the Warmaster fall to chaos and you saw what they did. They also, all of them saw what he did.
Or most of them, but obviously there are space maids that fall to chaos later on. Like him, because clearly he fell at Caliban. He's one of the ones that were punted at the warp. So you're just swapping, you're bending the knee to someone else. It's a seam of the lore that doesn't get touched on enough. There's some interesting tales to be told there. So I'm trying to think of any stories of even just a squad rather than a chapter of Chaos Marines who are trying desperately to claw their way back to find their way out from underneath the Chaos hold. And I've got nothing.
Just to say there isn't any out there, but as far as I can remember. Oh, I'm sure there's loads of fanfic and what have you. Oh, true. I'd hope there'd be fanfic, otherwise I'd be going to the Warhammer 40k fanbase and going, you fucking let me down. How many decades? Not one story? Sort yourself out. But even just for GW, it's kind of those... Because the closest they get to it is with little hints of what some of the Fallen and the Dark Angels can do, which is kind of they have Fallen, but they're not entirely evil, they're not there. They don't really do much with it. No. Again, there's enough you could do without advancing the main plot or the main lore, because you can just pick randoms from wherever they were.
Yeah, you pick out 30 Marines who are surviving on a planet somewhere, and you can tell a story with them. It doesn't have to be more than that. It never has to be more than that. Yeah, it's enough, and it's just like, yeah. It just strikes me how easily they acquiesce, and it's like, yep.
because there's no sense of why did you need to bend the knee because were you scattered and alone left left here what have you yeah yeah there's a lot to mine there i think yeah like i say it's not criticism as such it's more just it's an observation that's like it's one of the weird things about how easy easy some of them seem to fall chaos and how quickly they bend the knee yeah and i think there's a the question to be asked there of at what point does it stop being willing like a willing choice because the that's the snare isn't it that's how they kind of describe the snare of chaos that as you progress along the path you stop being your own person become a puppet of the dark gods and but i don't think that's really ever been measured out and maybe it shouldn't be because that's gonna be different for every person but when it comes to an entire chapter falling there is a kind of like a muddiness you know how quick it happens and at what point they stop being this is an actual choice we made i mean the entire luna wolves thing you know that all happens because horace looked taken into a cave and stabbed with a knife and there isn't a a huge amount of people running from the chapter you know there's no like scout squad that goes to hell with this we're getting out of here now yeah i mean because it's so small it's so slow and insidious yeah i mean there's obviously get little bits of it with obviously some of the emperor's children like salt harvest and all that going down none of this but yeah but there's not enough of it
in the heresy books and even just there it's like no no no it's just i mean i know obviously some of them end up being the black shields and end up being subsumed in other chapters by the end of it and what have you but it's just after that when you've got other chaos it's like well just okay so you're you've signed with a war master not all of you were a chaos at that point but all of a sudden you do Because like the Night Lords, clearly you're not really much of your art in the chaos, you're just fucking evil bastards. I suppose a lot of that comes from the fact that the space marines are made from the genetic stuff of the Primarchs, and if the Primarchs already have that weakness in them to make them fall to chaos, then that's going to be replicated in the marines that they command. But even so, it does feel like there's something missing from the story there. Yeah, well, even if you look at the ones that go to the powers, it's like, Angron's fucked. Angron was all that way, there was nothing he could do, so it wasn't really a genetic weakness, it was the butcher's nails. Yeah, yeah.
And the fact that the Emperor, if the Emperor had actually treated his Primarchs like his sons, a lot of these problems wouldn't have happened because the Emperor's a dick. Yeah. Mortarion did it just to save all of them. So they're the kind of ones that, you really don't have a choice. You're fucked. But you look at it. Magnus. Desperation. Rather than any temptation. It's like they've been studying. Would they have all fallen into Zeech? Probably not. No. Obviously it's a good point now that most of them are dust apart from the sorcerers. Thanks, Saruman. Yeah, the... Yeah, I think...
Out of all of them, Magnus is the one that's got the most interesting storyline, because his choices are his all the way through. His back's against the wall, and he doesn't feel like there's any other choices to make, but they are his choices, whilst someone like Fulgrim, that choice is removed quite early on. and Angron as well that ability to choose is taken from them very early on and as a result the people that follow them blindly fanatically they fall down the same path but the thing to go with Fulgrim I would imagine his legion is the one that half of them would have went fuck right off Bile being the outlier is the weird one because like it's all about perfection and we are the best but you're not the minute he accepted a gift from the Chaos Power oh you're not good enough yeah that should have actually had Fulgrim should have ended up being a Primark with no force Like, you'd have the ones that would be corrupt and we'd be loyal to them, but enough of them would just go, none of this shit. I mean... Yeah, the blind loyalty to the Imperium over the Primarch. Yeah, whereas not even the blind loyalty, but just what he instilled in them is they were obviously, we are better than everyone else. The minute he says, he takes the gift, it's like, you're not better than them. So the ones that are properly relevant, it's like, you've betrayed us. So while they've turned on the Empire, they would have turned on him as well. So you should buy it in. His legion should have splintered the minute he accepted any demon gift. But then the way that Fulgrim's entire backstory got rewritten, it's a mess. Fulgrim's entire...
Ball to Chaos is a bit of a mess, because for half of it, Fulgrim isn't Fulgrim. There's somebody else pretending to be Fulgrim. Yeah. Yeah, that's... Well, yeah. What I'm saying is, not so much Fulgrim's fault, but it's the reaction to his... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even if his men knew, okay, you were corrupted, they took over, so you couldn't beat that demon right then. Oh, go on, mate. It's just an odd bit that just... When you stop to look at it, it goes, that doesn't fit right. No. Well, I guess that's the broad strokes that 40k is built on, and trying to get new ones is a very recent addition to 40k. Yeah. Let's say addition, that wasn't meant to be a pun.
They're trying to explore nuance a bit more now, but that's after 20 years of Horace Heresy books, where there's no subtlety to those things at all. And that's built on the back of 20 years before that of 40k, which was just the biggest broad strokes that you could get, because that's what it is meant to be. Here is the framework for you to play your games, to connect your army, to narratively create your own thing. But now, because we are getting that sense of nuance, that sense of subtlety in the way that the stories have been presented, looking back on some of these things, even the really good ones, it's missing so much because they are such big broad strokes. yeah it's just it's one thing that when you stop to look at it it's just again just workspace means just doesn't fit it doesn't make it a neat fit if only there was an anthology fiction publication that was released monthly by games workshop that could have explored ideas like that oh if only anthology would also just give us just it'd also just make for more interesting chaos army lists it would yeah yeah it's like why why do i still not the year of our lord 225 cannot put together a proper fallen warband or well i can hack and homebrew but it's like that should be baked in yeah because the
the lion's fallen guard, what, they got the redeemed, is it? Yeah. Yeah, they're still not a full army, are they? They're, like, single units, yeah. They're in our circle companions, but it's like, why can't you just do, like, you can, but it's just like, nope, I'd like something that's got a bit more fluff to it. I think when the 11th edition Dark Angel book comes, that's probably going to have something in it, because that seems to be what 11th edition's building itself on is, as much mutability as you can physically get. Yeah, so, after our diversion, we get back to, back to where we are, which is, looks like Leonidas is going to have to take on the fallen Dark Angel, all alone, but it's like, nope.
the lads are back yep and Clotus is missing an arm he's got an arm off but he does however have the head of his future team himself so you know So he's not leaving. Do you think that Clotin's going to take Leonidas' place? I don't mean like he's going to fall to chaos. I mean like he's going to sacrifice himself and say, go, I'll do it. No, okay. I can tell you what will happen because I remember it. I don't remember the details, but I know what happens. And it's also been shaded in the introduction of part one. So you know who's actually survived and who makes out the Eye of Terror. Well, sorry. You know who makes out the Eye of Terror. I also know who survives. These are two different things entirely. Right, okay. My memory of that is there. It's embedded. Yes, but no. Because, spoilers, there is going to be a third book.
Which is good. Genuinely happy about this fact. Very happy. I really want to talk about the final page. Because the final page is the most comic book-y thing, and this is not a slight in any way, shape, or form. It's the most comic book-y thing I think Warhammer Monthly has ever done. And it's three characters, and they're all saying a single sentence. Yeah. It's great. Understand this, curse scum. We have fought our way across the entire demon world to stand here now. So be warned, demon filth. Do you really think we came all this way if we weren't prepared to fight when we got here? Da-da-da-da-da.
It's very much a Soaring Cockrock theme begins. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is a proper pump your fist end to this issue. It's great. Oh, I love it. Yeah. So realistically, it's like you should win against the Dark Angel guy because there's one of him and there's three of you. Yeah. You've got five arms. You've got five eyes.
you should be able to win two chain swords and a power axe by the looks of things and he only has chain axe yeah but it's going to be a demonic chain axe yeah but it's also dual handed so you know he's not striking first that's true that's a double handed weapon but all in all I am like I'm in love with Blood Quest. It really is just spectacular. And it pisses me off that instead of making the Blood Quest movie that they were going to make, they just got Dan Abner into right at Ultramarines. Unfair. But the problem is, would it have been as good? That's the thing is, as we're fucking nerds of a certain vintage, pre-adaption changes the work. There is a little bit of you. You will get everyone, I promise, even if you get annoyed about things now, you'll get to a point where you can just go, it's a thing in its own right. It doesn't invalidate what already exists. It's also remembering, yes, it will not compete with the thing that's in your head, because the thing in your head is in your fucking head. Yeah.
Judge it on its own merits. Easier said than done, because there's still certain things that you watch and just reflexively just go, why did you cast him as him? Or why did you do that? But just learn to enjoy it. But yeah, it's also the fact of...
if you're if you're doing something why adapt something that already exists do something new particularly when you don't have that would be the thing for me is if okay we're gonna do a blood quest movie you should never have done a blood quest movie you should have just said we're going to do a space marines movie telling you sorry which is what they did it wasn't very good no no it wasn't but it still brings joy to my heart to think about every now and again because i've got a lot of mileage out of that over the years yeah but there's always the thing exists and it's all right and it's also about does it even does anything need adapting it's like no no But it would have been nice to have this Blood Quest love when I was younger. Absolutely. With Shea of Eminence, I am really making the prick. And again, taste change. I mean, you remembered not hating Darkblade. Yeah. There's no accounting for taste when you're a kid. I remember not hating it, but I do remember it not being particularly, you know... Interesting. It didn't anger me as much as it has done now. Yeah.
Like I say, I remember Blood Quest always being a favourite. Monofuge. Anything that's got John Hicklington and Simon Harrison art on it, I enjoyed. On the merits of the artwork alone anyway. So I was always going to enjoy that. Titan, I could take a relief. I can, even now, I'm slightly more favourable to it because I can see what they're trying to do. But again, you just, you see the bits where I have a story I want to tell and I'm making things fit when it doesn't.
Yes. And again, what we have is you've got a monthly book games workshop. We're nearing the end of the third year and you don't have the scheduling right because you're missing chapters of Titan. Momentum gets lost. Yeah. You've got to wait two months between installments of an anthology book. That's a long time, especially for a 13, 14, 15-year-old to try and...
have to wait. There's so much competing for your time. I make a point of every issue is a jumping on point, but it's also a jumping off point. That's the thing to remember. I was talking to my brother about this over the summer, and he remembers me reading an issue, and we couldn't work out which one it was, where I just put it down, and my entire reaction was, I'm done. I'm done with that.
I don't remember doing this, so memory is a fallible thing at the best of times. But he says he remembers me just handing him the comic going, there you go, that's yours. It would have been before now. It would have been in the 20s somewhere, but I couldn't tell you which one it was. Yeah, I'm trying to think how far I kept going. Probably...
Actually, I think probably this, the next issue, because I think it's the end of the podcast, probably the last one I remember buying. It's not that you didn't buy any more after it, but that's the last one I remember. Yeah. It would be interesting to kind of go back and try and find, it'd be interesting, actually, as we go through this, if you remember your last issue really vividly, you can kind of try and go from there. I wish I knew which one mine was, but I generally don't, don't have a clue. But anyhow, let's start dragging this all to a close. So overall thoughts on this one, it's fine. It's got a really good blood quest to end everything off with. There's nothing really wrong with the stories before it, more times really good fun, but there's not a huge amount in this issue.
grabbed me. You know, everything's good. There's a baseline of good, but there's nothing spectacular here that has really, really jumped out of its way and got me outside of Bloodquest, which is just glorious. Which is a shame, because the last couple of issues we've done, we have ended on quite high notes for some reason. Not as much as this one.
like i think it is just partly it's like for me it's like you it's the arrangement of the issues half of it very similar in terms of approach to the art not the technique not the actual rendering but just the the gray heavy wash makes for it it's like and you've got a story of very little consequence which is entertaining enough yeah and i think probably if we're being honest we are probably at the point now that we need the next more time to be a two-parter yes i think so i think as you said we enjoyed it but it's we're now at the point that i want a little bit more like you've given you've given me what i need blood quest solid it had some good moments but didn't have kind of the because you know that's coming next issue that's the thing yeah this is just getting the ducks in a row so the next issue has the big moments because the thing is also it's that the problem about doing anthology is every not every story can be like balls to the wall because otherwise you've got nowhere to go so you need the quiet moments to ramp up to the big ones and i think that's the thing is your book ended with two two stories which are both perfectly good but they're both just setting things up for the next part yeah and part of the monofuge and blood quest and that's kind of you look at it as that let's say it's it's the mix and it's something you want once you start to pick apart and you start going that's when you start picking the edges when you're doing an anthology when you're doing any kind of periodical where there's multiple features or content is how it's assembled is important it's a jigsaw puzzle and there is a right way to do it there's a wrong way to do it and it's
I think there's a big problem in this issue and we've had it crop up a couple of times as well where it feels like the people who are assembling this really don't know how to assemble it. that there's there's base knowledge here that isn't been hasn't been passed on that hasn't been learned however you want to kind of look at it but these are really small rookie mistakes that keep getting made and as you said earlier we're in the third year of this there shouldn't be these mistakes being made there's there's always a chance for a one-off bad issue where something's been assembled in a hurry where things have to be done to go to printer and there hasn't been enough time to really do whatever for whatever reason yeah the stuff happens but it's a it's a repeated pattern that we see again and again and again and it's it's baffling but also I think it all comes from inexperience and not having the editors coming in from somewhere else to kind of teach them the experience. Yeah. And there's also a thing of, as we've said, we don't know what the pressures were and what's in and out. So this is very much, we are only speculating. This is not what we're saying is 100% opinion. It's just what we think based on what we can interpret based on the information. So we could be wildly wrong about a lot of things. Yes.
But we're not wrong on that intro bridge being dog shit. But that needs to go. It needs to be gone. It's ridiculous. How it's still there, I do not understand. Like I say, we're operating all of this from a 25-year-plus removed, let's say, hindsight vision. So it was a success story.
Yeah, no, 100% it was. It's baffling how well it succeeded and how long it lasted on the market. It's not so much that it's baffling because in the case of people were hungry for content, that's all you can really get, particularly in the comic space of the UK because not everyone's aware of specialist comic shops and not everyone has access to them as well. And again, this is still early internet. I mean, I think I bought my first thing online in 99, I want to say. It was the Sony Wonder VHS. I think I was buying like trade paperbacks and stuff, but I couldn't tell you if that was 99, 2000 or 2001. 2000 is when I...
So my 99s when I first bought it, and even then I just bought that one thing and that was it. Yeah. 2000. Summer 2000, because I had to put my bank card details in and I remember papping it because it just felt so wrong to do, and I bought the hardback edition of Arkham Asylum. Someone's a pretentious gob shake. Absolutely I am, or was. Was, is, and always will be. I remember it because I had to make the...
five and a half mile walk to go to the sorting office to pick it up. But yeah, so it's interesting. People assume a lot. It's something that I was like, if you're not plugged into a scene properly, then you won't not. And that's it. And we all kind of, people are always going to say, oh, because I know about it, everyone should know about it.
No. Or still, this is early days of the internet being accessible at home. And also the point where people still dial up. So it's a case of, do you want to make a phone call or do you want to be online? I do both. Yeah. God, remember those days. Kind of wish we could go back to them in a lot of ways. Yes and no. That's the thing. You couldn't go back. Or it's difficult when most people go back. He says having watched Transformers the movie on VHS more than... Start bringing things to a close. Where can people find you? Say if people wanted to hunt you down and listen to you talk more about comics. Oh, generally you can find me on Blue Sky.
addcomics.beesky.social I am slowly going back on Instagram until All Our Fun 2026 I missed a few weeks but I have been uploading my near year-long mad trip where I adapted the greatest horror film of all time Shackma into a three-panel daily adventure trip partly as a test partly to wind up Lindsay I was successful on Volcrunk I believe so that's pretty much it Facebook no and even if you seek me out I probably wouldn't friend you anyway no offence I'm on it because I have to not because I want to be yes same I might sort my website out at some point this year or next year or the year after you will see probably early 2027 the great comic tree learning anthology volume three will have a jugger morph tale in it for myself and gavin yes we are doing doing that there will be a proper jugger morph comic thing probably next year now just both of us have kind of had stuff that was a i was sans job dad had quite serious health issues and obviously in between that obviously i decided to you know uproot my life entirely by discovering something about myself that in hindsight i should have known years ago but there you are so it's kind of
it's been a bit of a 2026 it's not bad it's weird as I said to Adam earlier it's kind of nervous exciting strange odd and comfortable all at the same time it's a don't know quite how to put it in words so but I have to say everyone since I announced it's been dead supportive which I greatly appreciate because you always worry oh is he doing some daft thing for attention or is he having a moment is he having his slightly later than planned midlife crisis but no no she is not see even I can't get the pronouns right yet so don't worry I will not take offense if anyone gets anything wrong Take offense about the more important things, such as, why don't you like Manimal? Why haven't you started liking Manimal? Hey, I love Manimal. We've had multiple discussions about Manimal over the years. However, I am fairly certain there's at least three, maybe four of you listeners who don't like Manimal. Hopefully not more than that, because otherwise corrective action will need to be undertaken. The operation for right think. Yeah. Other than that, that's pretty much it. I will follow you on Blue Sky and Instagram and all that, but like I say, Facebook, don't bother. It's a horrible place. It is. It is. As for myself, you know all of this stuff already. It's AD Nickel.
A-D-N-I-C-O-L.weebly.com for all my personal stuff. The fluff and hammer's on everything. Just come and find us. Now, as you mentioned before, I barely use Facebook. I've taken it off my phone. I don't use it. So the Facebook group is kind of self-regulated at the moment. And thankfully no one's come up and had any real issues. So that's fine. That's all good. But Facebook is just not a place that's good for my mental health. So I don't really use it anymore. But I am on Blue Sky. I am on Instagram.
And I will respond to messages eventually if you send me any on there. Not anytime soon, but eventually. And as for that, we are going to get out of here. So thank you very much, Andy. Thank you. And thank you very much to you guys for listening, if indeed you still are. Bye-bye. Bye.