Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. Galatians 6-2 says, Bear one in others burdens and so fulfilled the law of Christ. It is true that our world is broken and that there is suffering and we will have burdens in this life, but take heart, Jesus, the one who gives us true peace has overcome the world.
As Christian leaders, how can I best bear another's burdens and care and pray for someone struggling with grief, strongholds, and addictions? When should I bring in a pastor or therapist to provide care? What is regeneration and how can I help my group members? Scott and I tackle these questions in today's episode with Paul Han, the care and recovery pastor at Mariners Irvine.
Our prayer is that God will continue to equip you to care for your group members. Let's check out today's episode. And one of our leader essentials for life group leaders is to provide care for our group members and we know that this is kind of a cliche, but we say that people don't really care how much you know unless they know how much you care. So, we've heard a lot of times, right?
But it is true. It is absolutely true and providing that environment where people are loved on and cared for by one another. I mean, there's so many one anothers in the Bible. And so to have you here as a care and recovery pastor to share with our group leaders, I think it's going to be so beneficial to know what the importance and the priority of care is and some of the resources that we have here at Mariners for care as well.
So I guess the first question that we have for you, Paul, is like, what does it look like to provide care, to provide support to someone hurting, to someone going through challenges and, you know, Sam and I, we both lead a life group. And honestly, we can say that every week people go through struggles and trials and challenges. So what does it look like as a life group leader to provide care and to come alongside people who are hurting? Yeah, absolutely.
First of all, thank you guys so much for, I love that value for our life groups that care is like an essential part of it. And I'm really, really grateful for this time. And to all the life group leaders, I'm really grateful for the ways that you guys, we can day in, day out are really the tip of the spear in terms of providing a loving, caring community, like a Christ-centered community for the people of our church. And so just off of that, thank you.
Thank you guys for being in it. Thank you for being obedient to your call, to be shepherds in our church. And we are so grateful for you. We pray for you all the time.
And we really, really are grateful for you. In terms of care, I think I want to acknowledge what we're a very smart church. We're a very accomplished church. So I will speak in generalities though.
I know that there are life group leaders who are trained, you know, therapists and doctors and whatnot. I just want to just in the generalities say, like, for the vast majority of us, we may feel like we are ill equipped, ill trained, or, you know, like what, what, what specialty am I bringing in terms of like a care-centered, you know, industry or sector of society or whatever. And I think you're right, to your point. We're not expected to be professionals of care in any way.
But I think I kind of narrow it down to maybe three types of care that I think all believers can offer. Anyone who, you know, the spirit of the living God is at work in them can offer these three areas and that is spiritual, emotional and relational care. So spiritual care, like as a life group leader, I hope that you're already offering prayer. I hope that, you know, as every week you guys gather and you're sharing your prayer requests and, you know, people have emergency throughout the week and they're texting you like, hey, can you, you know, lift up a prayer for this?
I hope you are offering a spiritual support, right? That's part of care. That's part of the real essential, like, something that the church can do that, you know, no other place is necessarily doing is offering that spiritual support. And whether that is, you know, being attentive to how the spirit of God is calling to mind, you know, scripture that may encourage your group member at that point or, you know, yeah, just being open to how the spirit is using you to speak words of life and truth and reminders of who God is and their identities in him.
Like that's all the spiritual support that you can continue to offer as a group leader. I think in terms of emotional support, like, I'm sure all of you guys have experienced, you know, discussions where a member or a few members are coming in and it's a heavy season, right? Maybe there's been a loss, you know, of a loved one, maybe it's a loss of a job or there's a marital strife or like, there's so many things in our broken world as we're living life that there's just emotional heaviness. And so what does it, what does that just mean?
And this is kind of tied with relational support, but like, what does it mean to just be a friend in Christ? Like you are a brother, you are a sister in Christ and you are just like in it to sit with someone as they are in the pits. You are just someone who's like, I'm with you, I'm sitting with you. And I think a really practical way that that shows up and how I even encourage our pastors and staff is a lot of emotional and relational support happens just with listening.
That listening is a powerful intervention for a lot of people because I think the lies that the enemy brings when people are going through hard times is he like dumps on shame, which leads to isolation. And he could also just like, there could be a condemning voice, right? So just even the fact that you're saying like, I'm willing to sit with you through this, you're not rejecting them, right, for whatever they're walking through, you're reminding them that they are not alone in this that like, unfortunately, this is a result of, you know, it's in the world and a lot of people have walked through similar, you're not alone, you don't need to be ashamed of this, like you're sitting with them in the midst of whatever they're bringing to the table, right? And so it's this kind of ministry and gift of presence, it's this ministry and gift of non-judgmental, active listening.
Oftentimes I think that first meeting, or like when they first bring it up, if you're doing like 90% listening and 10% talking, like that could already do so much for that person. And I think oftentimes people aren't even asking for like that solution or advice or whatever, like they just need to get the weight of whatever they're walking through off their chest and on their soul. And I think that's really what the word says of like bearing one another's burdens. It's just like that sitting in, sitting with, being with, and I think that's what builds community.
Well, that's huge. I just got mentioned, my wife and I co-lead a life group and everything you just said, I resonate with so much. There have been times where, you know, our life group members have dealt with miscarriages or strongholds that they can't shake and they feel weighted down by. And I felt like so illiquid to handle, to lead in that season to try and shepherd our people spiritually, just really weighty stuff.
And you're right that sometimes the greatest thing we can do is just be there for someone. And you talking about allowing them to speak so that way the weight can get lifted off their shoulders and off their chest, that's huge. Really helpful. So, you know, I just sharing what I've experienced personally in my life group.
Paul, I know you have been at this church for 10 years. 11. 11 years last week. That's amazing.
So I bet in those 11 years you have sat around some circles. You have facilitated rooted groups. You've been in life groups. But just what have you seen personally when it comes to giving or receiving care in the groups that you've been in?
What have you seen? Where have you seen God move? Such a good question. And yeah, over 11 years there's been a lot.
So, I think just even personally in receiving care, I'm so grateful that the way that God has designed us is to be in community. Like I can't imagine not having the community around me that I do through life groups, through our team members here, coworkers here, through my friends, because 11 years there's ups and downs, right? And even ministry has a way of kind of wearing down and bearing down on our shoulders. And so in terms of receiving care, yeah, there have been people who have sat with me through my dark night of the soul.
And I think the most beautiful and helpful thing in those seasons, one, was again just a listening ear. But I love that my friends and life group and coworkers here are the ones who, when I'm feeling discouraged or when I've been in seasons, they're just kind of doubting like, oh, God, why do you have me here? Do you still want me here? Everything's like that.
They are the first to remind me and affirm my giftings. And I think that's the beauty of community is like when we are so quick to forget God's faithfulness or like what he's done. Sometimes we need those brothers and sisters around us to help us remember what he's done, how he's moved, how he's used as the things that he has showed us about himself. Kind of phrase that has been going on in my mind in this last season is, I think it's a film like in song, but the alters in the wilderness tell the story of your faithfulness.
And I think that's exactly kind of where this type of care makes a mark is that people are walking through seasons of wilderness, right? That's kind of where they're asking for care is like, man, this feels hopeless. Like I don't know where the next well is. I don't know where the next rest up is like, if he was like a wasteland, it feels like a wilderness.
And yet we know because we have a faithful like gracious God that he's going to meet us in those places too, and he's going to show up faithfully. And so when he does like to almost construct a mental or a spiritual altar in that site, right, of like in that season when I felt at my lowest, God still met me and like set it up as this altar in that wilderness. And when we forget our altars in the wilderness, our friends can be the ones who are quick to remind us of that. I think in terms of providing care, I don't know, there's so many different contexts and examples and I know we're going to get into some of our care spaces here, but I've just seen so many beautiful stories of, yeah, like we had a man who his brother passed away suddenly just the night before.
And then he showed up to our grief share group and was just like, I don't even know, like I don't even know why I'm here. I don't even know what I'm asking for, but I'm here. And so we have people and we have groups that are sitting with like this raw, like I feel like I've just been cut open, Taipei, all the way to, you know, we have people who are coming in and are now addressing traumas from like 30 years ago that they had buried, that they thought like no one wanted to look at here about touch. And yet we have people in spaces in our church that are like, no, Jesus wants to meet you in that place too.
Jesus wants to set you free and you don't need to even hold on to that. Like I'm sure you've lived a content life even holding on to that. But no, we say Jesus wants more, he wants an abundant life for you, right? Not just for you to get by or get through, but he wants you to thrive in those spaces.
And so I don't know if I answered your question, but I have gone to see and experience lots of beautiful ministry of care. Yeah. You know what you mentioned earlier Paul about the three messes or emotional spiritual relationships. I think that's super helpful.
Kind of thinking through those challenges that people face in our groups. One of the other things is, you know, in our rooted, when all those who've gone through rooted, we had that strongholds week where we shared the struggles that we go through in our lives and that's a divulnerable time. And it's sometimes hard as life group leaders to navigate that tension of showing accountability and compassion at the same time. And you know, Paul, not you, Paul, but also Paul in Ephesians talks about speaking the truth and that Jesus talks about coming with grace and truth.
And I don't need to do both. But how would you just come alongside someone struggling with strongholds and the sins? Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I love that you already preempted the answer to the question with speaking truth and grace and I think yeah, both of those are so necessary, right? I feel like the question behind the answer to this is also what type of relationship have you been invited into. So when people are sharing their strongholds, I don't know if this is a larger conversation with all of our life group leaders, but is it assumed that the life group leader is the one who is holding that group member accountable? Have they been invited into that type of relationship?
And I ask because in a lot of our spaces, like at least our recovery spaces, we often have, you know, people who absolutely love these individuals, right? It's like parents, it's spouses, it's best friends who are like, this person needs help or this person, they are making a mess of their life. Like, what are you going to do about it? And we're like, well, have they asked you for help?
Like are they at the point where they're actually willing to receive that care? Because we find that when that person is not ready to receive that type of care or that type of intervention, like there's only so much you can do, right? Especially for these adults, like you are you going to drag them every weekend, force them to sit down. And so I think just that question of what accountability relationship have they actually asked you for and what have you been invited into and what agreements have you made?
Because I think that is really powerful to hold them to, right? And maybe that's the kind of course of the life group of you get to that point of relational trust and you encourage them to view you that way or view another group member in that way of like, man, I recognize that I'm still struggling with this and I recognize that I can't do it alone and I need someone to help keep me accountable. Like, will you do that? I think that conversation needs to happen.
And then in that conversation establishing like, what does that actually mean? Are you allowing me to call you out? Like when I see it, I suspect it. Are you giving me that permission to call you out?
Because I think I wrote a quote down of this is Henry Nowins quote from out of solitude. But it says, cure without care makes us into rulers, controllers, manipulators and prevents a real community from taking shape. Cure without care makes us preoccupied with quick changes impatient and unwilling to share each other's burdens. And so cure can often become offending instead of liberating.
And I think part of that like invitation into care versus just kind of jumping to the cure is establishing that trust and that relationship and what the bounds and agreements within that relationship are because it can quickly become offending instead of liberating that person if you give unsolicited accountability advice. And so I think, yeah, I don't know if that is like necessarily a nice need to bow answer, but I think that's kind of the goal of our life groups, right? Because as we're building relational trust and as like that's what all the 10 weeks of meetings before that conversation are for is to get that to that place where that person knows you are for them. Like you love them.
You know, you've been with them through the little things and so would they invite you into some of the larger pieces of their lives that we know God wants to bring healing to. But like to almost not jump the shark on that one a little bit. I don't know what do you think Scott? Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I think that's I agree with you on so many levels. You do need that relational capital to speak into someone's life. And at the same time, I think I'm so thankful for leaders and mentors as I was growing my faith, who weren't afraid, who really came to me and said, Scott, I see this struggle in you and you've shared it yourself with me.
Actually, I used to have anger issues. I mean, just rage issues as a Christ follower to you and it would show up actually on the basketball court. But sometimes I'm like, oh, yeah, it's so crazy for those of you guys who don't know Scott. Scott is so gentle.
I don't know if I've ever seen you. He's gentle and lowly. But it's so funny. Paul just recently saw me driving.
Oh, my. He texted. He was right behind me and he texted me. That's not how pastors should drive.
Is that what you said? I'm like cutting people off. I said, that's why I have a fish behind my, on the back of my car. But in case, Scott has done a lot of work in that area, but coming back to what my mentors was telling me, like, I'm so thankful that they weren't afraid to say, hey, Scott, it's because I love you and I care for you that I'm sharing this with you because we, I want you to go closer with God and want you to be a man of integrity.
And all those things. It was hard. It was hard to receive it. You know, initially I was actually quite defensive.
But after only spending time with the Lord and the Holy Spirit is convicting me, like I was so thankful and I'm glad they didn't avoid those conversations. But secondly, did it with such love, care and gentlemen. So, yeah. And again, full circle back to the truth and grace, right?
Like, there's a way that you can communicate truths where it doesn't feel offending because of the love that it's wrapped in. And I think something that you're saying is that like these were mentors, which implies that there was a type of relationship that you had invited, or maybe subconsciously or consciously invited them into of helping shape your spiritual life. Right. So again, there's like that both of there's permission.
There's like a type of relationship that had invited that type of feedback, whether you're not. Yeah. Yeah. Having that relationship is so key because otherwise someone's going to feel attacked.
They're going to feel like, gosh, this is, you know, why are they singling me out? But once you have that relationship, something that pastor Eric Urg told me is like, Jesus is the great shepherd, but he's also given us authority to shepherd the people in our groups. And we need to protect the sheep. We need to protect the sheep from each other from themselves, from the world.
So life, your leaders, you have authority when you have that relationship established to care for your people. And sometimes that's having conversations with truth and grace to care for them. Yeah. So I think there's things that like great members aren't even aware of, right?
And so that is hard because you're not necessarily an accountability partner at that point because they're not they're not even aware of what they need to ask you for help in. But I think that's true. Where as a shepherd, yes, there's there's stuff that's protective or times that you have to intervene. But like, I think there's like a nuance there when it's something that they're not even aware of that.
Yes, you should speak truth into that because they couldn't ask you about it. They don't know about it. That's really good. So much of what we talked about today is incorporated into a program, a ministry here at Mariners.
And just like how rooted is one of our main discipleship programs, ministries here at Mariners, we have a similar ministry for care and recovery. So would you mind talking a bit about our regeneration ministry for those that are unfamiliar? Just what it's about. Absolutely.
I'd love to. Yeah. So regeneration or regen for short. Hopefully you guys have started seeing it pop up on our grow together weekends and seeing it as one of our like key discipleship opportunities.
But yeah, regeneration, it's a discipleship based, Christ centered, scripture focused recovery ministry. And so we utilize the 12 steps because of I know the 12 steps I've heard so many testimonies and 12 steps have rescued and saved a lot of people's lives. But we utilize the 12 steps, acknowledging the power of the Holy Spirit that's at work. I know a lot of people do the 12 steps with an undefined higher power and some of those spiritual practices still help them.
But it's almost like doing it with one arm tied beyond your back. It's a regeneration just fully invites the spirit of a living God to help journey with people who are looking for freedom from all sorts of issues. So it's not an issue specific. It's not just drugs or just alcohol or what have you.
But I really think it's identity based. It's getting to the deeper root issues of why we are looking to certain things to give us a sense of peace or a sense of comfort or a sense of fulfillment or my worthiness is tied to XYZ, anything other than Jesus and recognizing those for like the idols or the little g-gods that we've made them to be, maybe even unknowingly. And so when we put Jesus in his rightful place as the Prince of Peace, as our counselor and comforter, as the one who gives us his righteousness and our identities can be found in him, that's where actually true freedom and true, that's why it's regeneration, you become a new creation rather than just white knuckling it through sobriety management or behavior modification. We want you to actually become a new creation in Christ.
I don't know if that was a brief way to say it, but that's kind of a little bit of what Regen is. Paul, we had a conversation recently about how sometimes you as the care and recovery pastor, when we as pastors meet with people who are going through struggles and challenges, like, okay, we got to call the care and recovery pastor Paul, but we are called to pastor and shepherd and come alongside people who are need and who are hurting. And so we gave that encouragement and challenged our pastors, but our life group leaders are called to pastor and shepherd as well. And I want to just know, when do we know though as group leaders that the mess, the stronghold, the struggles, the addiction that people are going through is beyond the scope of what the life group can provide.
Can you just speak into that a bit more? For sure. Why I love that care and recovery in this ministry falls all within discipleship is because it is discipleship. It's a group based, community based ministry that's walking with people as Jesus forms them into his likeness.
And so it's all discipleship. I would say to the leaders to kind of think through, I never want care to feel like this person is challenging or this person is difficult, lets them into care. It's not an off-ramp or a place to dispose of difficult situations because we all grow. We're all going to grow and become more Christ like we're going to be more complete in our maturity as we persevere through some of these things.
That very person or that very issue may be placed in your group to help you with your own compassion or your own empathy towards a certain thing. Maybe that is especially triggering because it reminds you of something from your own life or your own family as we write. And maybe Jesus is using this as a redemptive experience. And so I don't want to discourage leaders from having care and recovery be a supplement.
So as long as that person's issue is not becoming so disruptive or it's not overwhelming that entire group time because we want to acknowledge life group is still like the core principles of life group is to be in God's way together to practice spiritual rhythms and disciplines together but acknowledging that one of those is confession and the breaking of strongholds. One of the rhythms of life group is to continue that. And so to kind of with wisdom discern is this issue us helping walk someone through the breaking of strongholds and then do we need additional help in that area where they're getting almost like a specialized care on the side as a supplemental treatment in this particular area of their lives. I believe that a vast majority of life groups and life group leaders just surrounding that person with the love of Christ will do a lot of healing for that person.
Because again in region a lot of it is just kind of helping remove shame and removing the lies that the enemy has poured onto it and a lot of that is done in the context of community. And so your life group is absolutely critical for that person to know that there's nothing that they can do that can separate them from the love of Jesus and that you guys are there with them through that. And so I never want someone coming to care to feel like they've been expatriated from their life group about the same time for your life group leaders to know and feel a sense of support and relief from children that burden by themselves that care is also an option for them to receive maybe more focused or specialized care in that area. Yeah.
That's where we all. We talked about so many amazing things. Sorry for that. No, this is great.
This is amazing. Paul, we've talked about so many amazing things today. If people want to learn more about the region ministry or connect with you, how would they go about that? Okay.
So we have a care page on our website. If you go to marinerschurch.org slash care, you'll see all of our offerings. And we have at the very top a button that says, I want to speak to someone. And so if you don't even know where to start or, you know, if something comes up in your life group where you're like, I don't know if Mariners has something that can come alongside us in this situation, just press that button and someone from our team will get back to you and help walk you through like what would be the next best step.
You can just share a little bit of what's going on and someone from our team will get back to you. You can also scroll through all of our different offerings just right at the top is region, region, and our recovery offerings, including a struggles finder survey test. So yeah, region has like over a hundred struggles that they've identified that can be worked through in our ministry. And so I often look through the list and man, you are like, you're basically Jesus if you're not circling at least one thing.
And so yeah, we all have an area that the Lord's trying to sanctify us. And so if you're curious of learning more about region, you can find it at the care site. Is region offered at every campus? Currently no.
It is just at Irvine. And so as of September 2025, it is just at Irvine. But our hope and our goal is that in the next coming months by early 2026, we'll start seeing it at some of our other congregations and even online. And so yeah, we're trying to we believe in what God's doing through this ministry.
And so we want to offer it to as many of our Mariners congregations as possible. So good. I once heard that the church, God's community, the faith community is the perfect imperfect place for care. And it's so true, right?
We're all imperfect, all works in progress. And through life groups, through rooted, through region, God is causing us to like what you say at Galatians in 6, 2, we talk about bearing each other's burdens, considering others better than ourselves. Paul talks about in Philippians, Jesus talks about loving one another's he has love and he laid down his life, sacrificially showing us the extent of his love. And so we're just thankful.
We're thankful for you, Paul, and all that you're doing to support not just the care and recovery ministries, but you're discipling people and you're leading teams and leaders to truly shepherd and care for people going through struggles. All of us go through struggles. I mean, just in our life group this past weekend, at the end of our meeting, my wife and I were just like, wow, that was tough. Sometimes it feels like God's not answering prayers.
We've been praying for these people who've lost loved ones, who's going through financial struggles. We feel helpless and sometimes hopeless. And yet, God who trusts in you, you're never present God. And we're so thankful that we're in this community supporting each other, praying for each other.
And so with that, Paul, would you be able to just close our time and praying for our leaders that there will be people who will truly care as Jesus cared for us? Oh, it's an honor to pray for you guys. Father God, Lord, thank you. Thank you so much, Jesus.
Thank you for how you modeled for us, what servant leadership looks like, what it looks like for us to have an empathetic, as empathetic Savior who is quick to draw near to the weary and the brokenhearted. Jesus, thank you that it was your heart and your mission to seek and to save the lost. And in our groups and our life groups, there's many people who are feeling lost in the waves of life and what life has to throw at them. There's people who are crying out, God, where are you in this?
And so Jesus, thank you that we know that you are so close to them because you are near to the brokenhearted, that Jesus, I pray that you would give our leaders your eyes, that you would give them your heart, that you would help them to be quick to listen and slow to speak, that you would give them just the heavenly discernment and wisdom from above of how to be a good under shepherd by looking to the good shepherd. You who know how to use both the rod and the staff, you who know how to lead your flock beside still waters and green pastures and give us rest and comfort. And so Lord, I pray just a blessing and an anointing for our group leaders that you would give them the heart of God and that you would give them the heart of Christ when it comes to how they loved the flock that you have placed under them. And God, I pray that you would encourage their souls, that you would give them just even glimmers of joy and of hope, of the work that you are doing because Lord, we trust and we believe and we are expectant that Jesus, you are the healer, you are the redeemer, you are a reconciler and so we know that you can do so many miraculous things in the lives of the people in these groups and so Lord, I just pray that they would see even just the first fruits of some of that in their groups for those who are crying out in desperation, I pray that you would give their weary souls just a sprinkling of your living water and give them encouragement today.
We love you and we pray all of this in Jesus' mind and precious everything. Amen. Thanks Paul. I'll try to drive with more patience.
Let's not hurry.