What is Penal Substitution (PSA) and atonement? And can we have more Christ-like conversations about Christ's death? Brad East has something to say

In this Theology Lab episode Greg and Scott talk to Brad East, theology professor at Abilene Christian University. Brad recently published (September/October 2025) an article in Christianity Today called 'The Way We Debate Atonement Is a Mess.' It tracks why some people love penal substitutionary atonement (PSA), why some are harshly critical of this idea of salvation, and then steps back and asks how we can have a better conversation. Greg, Scott and Brad get into a host of other conversations about the Bible and interpreting Scripture and theology, like whether penal substitution could ever become the definitive expression of salvation or whether there is something so mysterious about the cross and resurrection of Jesus that defies a singular explanation.Check out Brad's article at CT here: https://www.christianitytoday.com/2025/09/penal-substitutionary-atonement-debate-theology/Also, Brad recently published the book, Letters to a Future Saint, available here: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802883872/letters-to-a-future-saint/Podcast includes original music ("Imagination") written by Dean Payla, produced by PALA.