What To Do Instead of Zone 2

If you’re a serious recreational athlete but you have a job and a life, and only five hours a week to train — what should you be doing? Our cardio episodes have to date discussed Zone 2 and explained VO₂max. Armed with that context, now our audience wants to know: If not Zone 2, then what? This week, Stu and Marty provide the answer with the help of one of the world’s foremost experts on aerobic conditioning and the limits of human performance, Dr. Michael Joyner of the Mayo Clinic. Dr. Joyner is a legend of the exercise science field and an elite runner himself, who back in 1991 conducted the first analysis establishing the physiologic possibility of a sub-two-hour marathon. Since our conversation with Joyner happened to fall just days after Sabastian Sawe and Yomif Kejelcha achieved the first official sub-2:00 marathon times earlier this spring, the conversation begins with a discussion of Joyner’s 1991 analysis. Then Marty and Stu challenge Joyner to get specific about what amateur athletes should be doing, if they want to achieve the best possible aerobic fitness for health with about five hours a week of training. In other words, what does one of the world’s most renowned scientists at the intersection of human physiology and athletic performance suggest for the optimal training regimen? How much vigorous training should we all be doing, relative to moderate- and low-intensity training? How much HIIT should we be doing? What does Joyner think about Zone 2? What does Joyner do for his own fitness as a 68-year-old man? Plus a listener question asking how to know when you’re training too much. Have a listener question or an idea for a future episode? Email us at [email protected] Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. Exercise Science listeners get a free two-month trial to EverMe at this link. You can also download EverMe for free at your favourite app store. SHOW LINKSFollow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience. Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too!Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency. EPISODE LINKSTwo runners break fabled two hour marathon barrier. Friend of Exercise Science Alex Hutchinson wrote about it for The Atlantic. Joyner’s famous 2011 article: The Two Hour Marathon: Who and When?Mike Joyner’s 1991 paper that is a staple in Marty’s Integrative Physiology class: Modeling: optimal marathon performance on the basis of physiological factors. PubMed. Full PDF. Dr. Michael Joyner’s website — been awhile since he updated it but fascinating nonethelessAndy Jones’ paper referenced by Joyner: The fourth dimension: physiological resilience as an independent determinant of endurance exercise performance - The Journal of PhysiologyAdaptations to swimming training: influence of training volume - Medicine and Science in Sports and ExercisePhysiological demands of running at 2-hour marathon race pace - Journal of Applied PhysiologyA Perspective on High-Intensity Interval Training for Performance and Health - Sports MedPhysical Activity and Exercise Intensity Terminology - ACSM Position StandThe “How They Train” series by Fred WiltCANADIAN 24-HOUR MOVEMENT GUIDELINES FOR ADULTS (AGED 18-64 YEARS)Physical Activity Tips for Adults (18-64 years) - Government of CanadaValidity of Submaximal Step Tests - Sports MedicineCriterion-Related Validity of Field-Based Fitness Tests - Journal of Clinical MedicineDISCUSSION POINTS00:00 Intro02:44 Welcoming Dr. Michael Joyner03:45 Joyner reacts to 2:0004:47 Who is Joyner?06:18 Marathon predictions11:13 Joyner prediction reception13:03 Performance determinants15:51 Other performance determinants18:59 Elite characteristics20:50 How elite is elite22:03 Joyner on Zone 226:55 Joyner’s training haiku29:30 Optimal intensities30:40 Long intervals key32:22 Is 80/20 wasting time?33:43 Resistance training35:00 Do SOMETHING36:51 Zone 2 too low38:51 Vigorous benefits40:37 What Joyner does42:35 More haikus43:59 Listener question46:52 Wrap upDISCLAIMERThe Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.The science of strength and fitness is continually evolving. While we strive to provide accurate, evidence-based information, we make no representations or warranties regarding the completeness, accuracy, or timeliness of the information discussed.Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.realexercisescience.com