Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. So, Tim, what's a fictional book or movie you wish that you could live in? And who would you be?
Easiest question for Lean In for me. There's a film series called Star Wars. I've never heard of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not a lot of people have heard of this, but it is a pretty big deal in the movie world. The movies came out in the late 70s. Okay. This is our assumption, Peter.
I think 10 movies. Yeah. Do those in chronological order? Could you do that right now?
Please don't. Okay, great. All right. So, just tell me.
Episode 1 through 3 came out in the 1999 through the early 2000s. What is where the preacles? Yeah, I get it. Doing three.
The originals were 4, 5, and 6, and then some newer ones came out when Disney bought the franchise. I'm out of the U.S. But I would be in the Star Wars universe, of course. And you would be?
I would be a Jedi, not one that is a part of the saga now. I would be my own Jedi. You're a Jedi. I would probably integrate myself into Skywalker saga at some point.
I would be involved in that. So. Can I be your video? Does that work?
No. No, that feels very strange. And Luke tried to train Baby Yoda. He did.
He did. It didn't work out. Great. Hey, before people tune off, and they're like, what is going on here?
Welcome to the Life Your Leader podcast. Yes. Yes. We're here.
You got John and this is Tim Luke guy. I was here with the star wars expert on our staff team. And I have a conversation this week about week 2 of what would Jesus say and the question of what would he say to an unbelieving skeptic. You just got the lean in was a fictional book or movie that you would live in and who would you be.
And we had a question like this similar. Another question you could ask in line with this passage this week of skepticism and doubt. We had a team at a devotional and asked the question where you could use this question too. What's something you had to see to believe?
So lean ins are meant to open you up, have a conversation, often tied into the passage not always. And it's a chance for Tim to hard flex about all the stories too, which I love. So you Skywalker Jedi situation. Yeah.
I'd be heavily involved in the series. Probably a friend of Luke's and ally. Yeah. Probably he would have learned a lot from me.
I'd imagine. Yeah. So I can see it. We'd probably have a spin off just about me realistically.
Yeah. And beyond Disney Plus. It'd be a big deal. 2025.
Look for it. It'd be in lunch boxes. It'll replace incredible. Now I had a hard time responding to this question, which is why is like, okay, there's another question you could ask if people like struggle.
You know what? I don't really read fictional. Whatever. So the question again is what's something you have to see to believe.
So there's another question that you can use for your lean in. And the thing for me would be the first time seeing the New York skyline. Like I mentioned our team devotional. The first time you see the New York skyline.
It's unbelievable. You can't fathom how big that city is. All tall buildings are. There you go.
All right. We're going to get into the passage. What would Jesus say to an unbelieving skeptic? We've got a couple of look down questions for you.
We're going to interact with these. There's three questions that are in your leader guide. And I would actually ask them in a different order than they're written. So the first question I would ask is the second question your leader guide, which is who are the skeptics and how do you see Jesus respond to them.
So that's just getting you to interact with the passage. Who are they? How does Jesus respond? And then secondly, what do you learn about how Jesus pursues us and them for the passage?
So what is about Jesus as demeanor and how he interacts with them in the passage? And the third question is getting you to understand the impact behind the text of what's the significance of Jesus calling himself the son of a man. All things that Eric walks through this week in the message. So what do we go ahead and read it?
And then we'll note the observations along the way. So this is from John 1 43 through 51. It says this, the next day Jesus decided to leave for Dali and he found Philip and told him, follow me. Now Philip was from the Seta, the hometown of Andrew and Peter.
Philip found Nathaniel and told him, we have found the one Moses wrote about in the law. And so did the prophets. Jesus the son of Joseph from Nazareth. Can't anything good come out of Nazareth was a naphon.
The Daniels replied. Come and see Philip answered, then Jesus saw Nathaniel coming toward him and said about him, he is truly an Israelite in whom there is no deceit. How do you know me in Nathaniel asked before Philip called you when you were under the fig tree, I saw you Jesus answered Rabbi Nathaniel replied, you are the son of God. You are the king of Israel.
Jesus responded to him. Do you believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You'll see greater things in this than he said. Truly I tell you, you will see heaven open and the angels ascending and descending on the son of man.
All right, let's interact here a little bit. Things that we want are leaders to draw out of their groups as they leave this week in their life groups who are the skeptics and how did Jesus respond to him? I mean, there's a few, but the main one we're looking on is Nathaniel, right? There's Nathaniel.
So how do you see what do you learn about Jesus interaction with Nathaniel? Yeah. As we see from the passage, Nathaniel is definitely skeptical of what Philip is saying. I don't know.
Is anything good come? Which even a total dig that's like there's no way nothing good is going to come from insert this derogatory city, which we won't say now to infinity, but don't do it. There's an area just past the orange calendar. Yeah, yeah.
Okay. Great. Awesome. So the skeptical of who Jesus is and Philip's belief.
And so he's the main one. Of course, you know, all throughout is, you know, the religious people, the people that are like, no, that's not the Messiah. Yeah. Definitely big time skeptics and not necessarily mentioned in the passage, but I love Jesus is the meaner in that.
He's very gracious. Yeah, that's good. And he just, he's very gentle and he could be offended by, you know, his lack of belief and even that's something that does something great comes from. That's right.
Yeah. And so, yeah, I just love Jesus as so gentle and so, you know, gracious and working with him and you know, then he kind of Jesus jokes on my life. Yeah. I know what you're up to.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I love all the things that you're highlighting there. It's so great. Yeah. There's a compassion.
There's almost a sense of respect. And even before Nathaniel knew Jesus, it's Jesus knew Nathaniel. Like I see you. I know you and you have all these on verbs about Jesus going to him and he found him.
Like there's this pursuit of Nathaniel. So it's very like individualized and he comes to him and he like, I see you. I know you. And all these things that you can see on the surface of the passage.
And then of course, I call back to the beautiful way which Eric taught through this passage and he connects it into the story of Jacob and Isaac and Genesis 28. You want to know that? Maybe go back and listen to that because there's some really even deeper things that are going on in the passage about Jesus connecting the dots between Isaac and Nathaniel. And Jesus said there's no deceit in you as calling back to Isaac and how he stole the birth right from his brother and there's no deceit now in you.
And whereas Jacob thought there was this ladder that you had to climb to perfection that actually I ascend down and down into you. And so this is beautiful picture of a God of compassion, a God of proximity and a God who does it and run away from our skepticism and worked out, but pursues us that comes down to us. And then what's this net against of Jesus calling himself the Son of Man? Well, that's that title, isn't it?
So really significant title. We hear that and we kind of glaze over it because we hear it. But it's the Messiah and the side that who would come and suffer for us. Jesus is saying, I am this.
I am that person. I am the person. I am the Son of Man. And all the times in this passage where Jesus says, truly, I say to you, amen, I say to you, like he's putting an emphasis very much like an exclamation points to teach clearly who he is.
And so lots of things that you can interact with him to look down of the passage, but the making's you want to pull out is that Jesus sees him. He wants him and he pursues him. Yeah, I think as we were sharing, I think there's got to be something such a surreal moment of prophecy being realized in real time. Like all of a sudden you go from skeptic to unbelief.
This is true. Unbelief, I mean, like, wow, I believe. Yeah. This is, this is, this is the Messiah we've been praying about.
We've been talking about, we've been studying and the scriptures, it's real, it's true. Here he is. And that moment we've watched, he encountered Jesus in his life as radical transform. The transformation happened in real time by just a few words conversing.
He believed because he was so seen because Jesus, like you said, proximity, he's there. He's present. I know you. I know you were under the victory and I was like, oh, you are the Son of God.
Right. It's awesome. And so you can naturally take it from this place into the lookout where it might have been a while in some of your, since you've gone through it with your group or you can retail stories of, and just remind me, like, how did you come to Jesus? What was your journey of skepticism and doubt and to believe?
Like, what did that look like? You can tell those personal stories and you can also highlight, hey, what causes people to be skeptical about Jesus? So you can talk about your own faith journey, but you can also highlight what are the things that you see in others that cause them to have doubts about Jesus. And then even the follow up question of how you responded to those doubts, how would you help guide people around some of those common questions they have about Jesus?
Anything you want to interact with on those questions, what causes people to be skeptical, how they responded to others in their doubts for Jesus? Yeah, a lot of times the skepticism that I see in regards to following Jesus and the way of Jesus and the teachings of Jesus is how could it be that good? Or a doubt because of their own brokenness, whether that's a man or woman, I just interact with men more frequently of my brokenness, my false failures, the way that I've done, the way that I've treated people, the grace that you speak of, the mercy that we just celebrated on Easter, I don't think I'm worthy. I don't think that I qualify.
How could it be that good? And so the skepticism is like, that all sounds great, but you don't know me. And I'm too far gone and I don't think that I'm worthy of that kind of forgiveness. I'm worthy of that kind of grace.
I don't know if Jesus would accept, I don't know if I'm not the exception to this great promise, this great truth. And so I think that is sometimes the barrier to entry that we believe that, or the idea that we don't really have to work for it. We just have to surrender. That's like a foreign concept that I don't have to work hard to receive Basil of Mercy and Grace.
But there are a lot of criticisms and the apparansionizing those guys in particular. Right. That's really good. Yeah, it's kind of both sides of that either I'm too quote unquote bad, I'm beyond it, or I'm all good.
I don't need it. Actually my life is pretty great. Look at my career, look at my family, look at my trajectory. I need a savior.
I'm fine. I've kind of saved myself. And both of those extremes are lies in tactics of the enemy that can drive us towards self-dependence or in self-doubt of a savior who actually pursues us, that we need to be, that we need to be safe. I think you probably, do you see that on both sides?
It's really good. I think you're absolutely right in that there are people in my life that have been so successful Yeah, and their lives have seemingly gone pretty dang smooth to where their apprehension towards following Jesus was simply I don't need him right like I've done just fine on my own and I think that will that will always come to a head. Yeah, there will be a point where there's a need for his love and grace and It is always fascinating to me when people are like no, I'm done great. Yeah, yeah, really good.
That is good. And of course there's all the You know the apologetic maybe the intellectual barriers about the exclusivity of Jesus The problem of suffering. I mean all these questions, but I love what you're drilling into it's yeah, great These are really good and substantial big questions, but the personal part part for you What is it for you in your own heart in your own perception of who you believe Jesus to be? You know, it's always really no an air kit that's in this message exactly what Nathaniel is doing under the tree There's two common thoughts and Eric talks about his message What a man was what he's praying earnestly for the Messiah and didn't understand why the Messiah had come yet Was waiting for that that freedom that military that military my others think he was in a moment of isolation and going through some Court sort of suffering and you can see that on both of our both skills of that when when Jesus doesn't do the thing or God Is it the thing that I wanted him to do and I'm disappointed or I'm in the middle of suffering?
But those are also really big barriers for us to to follow up in our faith in him really good Yeah, I was thinking about that earlier. I'm like what happened under the fig tree right clearly just by mentioning whatever You know spiritual moment whatever life moment that Nathaniel was working through under this tree Was so pivotal when Jesus says I know what you were up to under the victory. Yeah, I believe yeah You are the Messiah. Yeah, like it's that big of a deal that it's like oh if if you know what happened underneath that tree Yeah, you are the son of God, right?
And I think we've had those moments in our life where there's a an actual place where we might have cried out to the Lord for a Miracle or his presence or the spirits move in this way if someone said like hey I know what you were doing on the beach that day down in Newport. It's like dude. That's prophetic. That's Jesus That's a prayer that only I shared with my wife or whatever else and someone's like hey I've been praying for you specifically for this.
It's like okay the Holy Spirit's definitely Involved and so I just loved it. It's just simply a few words and Nathaniel is all it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know What else could know that right and it's just a beautiful passage. Yeah, yeah our skepticism You know to get into rejected skepticism.
He didn't say how dare you speak ill of where I came from but you know Why isn't that he was a switch forward to heck already? Yeah, he went towards it. So what did you say to escape? I see you.
I want you I've sinned into you believe in me I'm the one who bridges the way from you to God and actually came down that way So you don't have to climb the ladder so much some beauty in this passage And so as you turn the corner into the looking and a couple of questions interact with where did you just where do you Sort of believe that Jesus sees wants and pursues you and then I'll have this question to you because outward focused focus Who's the skeptic in your life that God is calling you to engage and I think that's really it's a challenging one, you know We can get so insulated with our groups and our circles and what we're doing in life that we can miss out on the beauty So far from Jesus and and how can we be like Jesus? We're not Jesus But how can we be like him to also see others to pursue others and to point towards what what he's done? You're a great example of that and the guys that you walk Daily with in life and you have relationships relationships with and appreciate that about you model for team What would you encourage folks on maybe these last two questions here? I think I think sometimes in John I'm sure you can resonate with both pastors here.
Sometimes our circles are just there's far too many Christians that we hang with And there's our circles don't expand as far as probably they should do and so I'm always challenged with that like who in my life Is not know Jesus and how can I be more intentional when we do spend time together to actually not have those surface level conversations But but actually have more meaningful intentional conversations about our morality and life and the hard things the struggles And so usually for me I Know Eric heard praise this prayer every morning I got what do we up to today and scream the people into my life that I need to interact with and help you be intentional conversations and so that's a prayer that I try to Pray I don't pray like every morning like Eric But I'd like to and I should and I'm even convicted sharing about it now But there are friends in my life that do not know Jesus Know what I do and I've given my life to that I could double down on Being more intentional and should I gospel and you know Jesus has transformed my life Right, so I just want to continue to always be looking on the lookout for the people that I know and have relationship with and the people That I don't know yet and how I can be intentional those words Yeah, often the the who to engage is one of the bigger barriers The how to engage can also be a barrier, but you've got a great template here throughout Jesus pursues and then you'll not just hear But all through all throughout the gospels we take our cues from Jesus So it is what would Jesus say to the unbelieving skeptic? I see you I want you I came to you and it's the same way We get to act that way when we show up in relationship with others So it's a beautiful passage this weekend's also I believe so If you're listening to this before the weekend join us in praying for meaning to respond to the gospel limitation If you're joining us after the weekend listening to this be praying with us as we do the follow up and get people connected into rooted Which starts in a couple of weeks so they can get in vibrant long lasting people community like you are a part of right now So we appreciate all you guys do is like your pleaters looking forward to hearing more about God is working in and through your group And then thanks for joining us look forward to seeing your debut on Disney plus it yeah fall of 2025 amazing. All right guys Thanks for your time. Let's see you next week