Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms and changes the world together. Welcome back, Life Group leaders, Dallas here. I get to be your host today and I have a special guest, our friend, our group's pastor, Kim Hamilton.
Hey everybody, so good to be with you, Dallas. This is really fun. We are finishing up our series, What Would Jesus Say? We started this right after Easter and I feel like we're in summer.
No, like summer's here. It is here. Just literally here, yes. We live our lives in sermon series.
Everyone I know how your church staff works. It's sermon series, it's sermon series. It just lies by. But we're finishing up, What Would Jesus Say to a Douder?
And we're looking at, to a Douding follower, who is that person? If you've studied your Bible a lot, you know that every time I hear a Douder, I always think of the same person, the person we're talking about today, and that is Thomas. Douding Thomas is kind of what I have stuck in my head. Like poor guy gets a bad rap.
His bad nickname, right? Bad nickname. But there is two sides of this. So someone who doubts, but on the other side, like someone who believes.
And I think this leaning question is really beautiful. Who is someone that saw something in you that you could not see in yourself? Just kind of let the group go around. Kim, is there anybody in your life that saw something in you that you couldn't see in yourself?
I feel like I've been very blessed in that. Like I just place people in my life over and over again. But one of the people comes to my mind is one of my college professors. And he reiterated over and over what he saw in me.
And it was a leader, because I didn't see myself as that. I was a shy little piano player at church and didn't like talking to people. And he just kept pouring that into me that God had poured more and I did dig more, see more, achieve more, be more. And I'm so eternally grateful.
Yeah, it's so cool to have those moments to think back. And because that person had the boldness to say that like how different your life is. And so cool. I can think of Shelly.
She was our former group's pastor. If you've led a group for a long time, exactly who Shelly is. And she saw something in me that I definitely did not see. And she helped me unlock that.
She helped me see it for myself too, which is really, really beautiful. I owe a lot to her. That's so great. That's so great.
Because that's part of it, right? Helping you seed in yourself. Not providing all the answers, but just the nudge. There is a level of like, hey, I'm going to tell you this.
But it's not just leaving that. I think of Gideon. God's like, hey, you're a mighty warrior. And God wasn't just like, see ya.
Like, no, you're a mighty warrior. And we're going to walk through this together. So you are a mighty warrior. I'm going to walk alongside you even in your doubts, which is so beautiful.
So God is right there with us in our doubts as we follow him. I hope you get some great stories out of that. That's worth celebrating those moments where people pour into one another. I think it's going to really set the tone too for your group.
Because it's not a like chiffelade or raisin canes. It's a deeper level. Those are great questions too. This is a deeper cut.
I think it's going to be a really beautiful time in your group. It is. And doubting, asking questions, stretching. That's not a bad thing.
We have a lot of growth in those times as well. So it leads us to read our passage, John 24-29. And I'm just going to read it. I have it open right now.
But Thomas, one of the 12, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples were telling him, we've seen the Lord. But he said to them, if I don't see the mark of the nails in his hands, put my finger into the mark of the nails. But my hand it to his side, I will never believe.
A week later his disciples were indoors again. And Thomas was with them. Even though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, peace be with you. Then he said to Thomas, put your finger here.
And look at my hands, reach out your hand. Put it into my side. Don't be faithless, but believe. Thomas responded to him, my Lord, and my God, Jesus said, because you have seen me, you have believed.
Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe. Wow, so good. I have so much compassion for Thomas in that moment. I do too.
But yet he's bold enough to say what he really wants. Just show me, just show me. And Jesus' graciousness in meeting him right there in that space. Mind blowing.
Yeah. So what do we learn about Thomas? What do we learn about doubt? And what do we learn about how Jesus responds to our doubt?
It's kind of fun to just sit in that scripture passage. There's no right or wrong answers. Just what do you see about Thomas? What do you learn?
What do you see about his character? What do you see about his personality? What do you see about his doubts that he's carrying with him? Just bring it out and enjoy that moment, because there's a lot of truth in that that is applicable to today, to right now.
Yeah. Even in the passage, I was like, Thomas, still one of the 12. Still, it wasn't like, hey, the guy with no faith, the guy who's on the outskirts, the guy who's not apart. He's still considered part, even though he is, he's still a disciple.
And kind of some of the things that this week, and we get to your kitten, he's sitting. He's courageous, he's loyal, he's devoted, loves that clarity, very matter of fact. Show me, show me, show me, show me right here, right there. He's still very devoted.
And he's trying, he's leaning in hard to try to pull pieces together. Yeah. And even there's a week later. What are you saying?
Hey, this is a, it's not like the disciples have this week long practical joke. For a whole week, we're going to have him believe this. For an entire week, he's still sitting in that moment. The best response of all is Jesus.
What do we learn about Jesus and how he responds? Well, first of all, he comes into the room that has a locked door. I love that that's actually inspacher. How amazing is that?
And there he is. But he just puts his hands out. And he comes to Thomas, like he comes to him, not directly, not just to everyone in the room. It comes to Thomas with his graciousness.
It isn't like you got to find me. I'm somewhere, here's the coordinates directly, like as close as you can get right in front of him. It's your Thomas. It's cool.
So looking at the passage, your group is interacting. Having the Bible open right now, I have it. You can hear the pages. It's open.
A real Bible. I love that. It just makes it easy to interact. And even as we're having this conversation, there's things we're like, oh, yeah, that's really great.
I'm so glad I'm able to open to see you all. So get your Bible out, read through it, and then look out. We're looking out into our world. There's quite a few questions here that you can choose from.
But what are circumstances that cause people to doubt their faith? What are the things that you've seen maybe in your own life, but really in the lives of friends and culture, where have you seen people doubt their faith? What are the circumstances? What have you seen?
What are the things? This is a great question that everybody in the circle should be able to participate in because we see pain around us, and many times it's pain. It's illness, it's death, it's the wise, like, why did I lose my job? Things that have stretched us beyond our means to understand, beyond our means to absorb it.
And the pain is just so great. Yeah, I kind of went down the same rebel. It's the God didn't answer my first the way I wanted him to. So it's not his will be done.
It's actually we say my will be done. When we have that mindset, God can't quote, I go, let us down. When we put him in a box, and I've seen people doubt their faith, God didn't give me this job that I wanted. So I'm pushing away from the faith.
God didn't give me this relationship that I wanted. So I'm pushing away, I'm doubting away from my faith instead of leaning in to my faith. Big difference. I think also people hurting one another sometimes makes us forget that, or I should be on God.
He's the only one that never fails us, but talking through that and giving people a chance to draw them in, give them a chance to participate, because everybody probably at some time has asked questions and that's okay. So how would you help a life group leader if someone in their group is saying, hey, I'm actually, I think I'm doubting my faith right now. Like how can a life group leader do we just say, hey, thanks for sharing this. Move on to the next question.
Like how do we shepherd someone in that moment? If we hear someone in our group say, I think I'm starting to doubt my faith. I would ask a couple more questions. You don't have to know the answers in order to ask questions.
Feel like sometimes that's the weight that we put on our shoulders. But ask some questions. What does that look like? What does that feel like to you?
Where do you see that come out most in your life? When do you notice it the most? Not that you have to spend 30 minutes there, but at least get some clarity to it. Let them share what it feels like.
And let them know that they're valued in that, like doubting in and of itself is part of the process of growth and saying in that moment with them could be really beautiful. It's at least drawing like, hey, attention to, you're doubting. I'm so proud of you. I'm so thankful that you said something.
We honor that they said that, but there's actually a whole other side of, like I've always grown up thinking doubting is bad. If you doubt, you're bad. But there's actually a beauty in doubting and it grows our faith. I think Ken says something like doubt leads to belief and then belief leads to blessing.
It kind of just builds on one another. But how can you help the people in your group as they're doubting that they're not doubting away from God, but they're doubting and leaning into him? And my doubts are causing me to dive into scripture more or causing me to play. So good.
And I'm talking about that. That's a beautiful side of doubt. And I think life group leader, like that's a really great role. If someone were to say that in my life group, yes, hit it in that moment, but they're getting a text message that night.
They're getting a text message that next morning. And we're following up, hey, I would love to sit down and have a conversation with you. That's really great. I'm moving my calendar and my schedule out of the way.
However, I can accommodate you because I want to sit in this moment with you. I think that's one of the gifts that we get to do, the joys that we get to do in being a life group leader. And there's a consistency in that. Right as a leader, the main question is, where do you go doubting?
What do you do with that? And if we could have the privilege of walking along somebody to remind them where they go, where did you go today? What scripture did you read today? Did you spend time praying today?
What did that feel like? Can I pray with you right now? I have just checking in. It leads to more questions and trust.
Hey, because Kim has walked alongside me in this, I have questions that are coming up as I'm reading the Bible. I'm going to ask her the questions. It's such a gift. And we never want to assume that everybody is this great spot so that we can never assume that.
So there might be someone that said something that comes up. And I think the whole question, the flow of the questions, that opening question is really, really beautiful. That's going to set the tone for the entire time. And then you kind of look into your own lives.
And leaders, remember, we set the tone for vulnerability. We can't expect our groups to be vulnerable if you aren't vulnerable. So you lead that out. But do you see doubts as a negative or a positive aspect of your journey?
We can hit that a little bit. But I think a beautiful question is, what role has doubt played in growing your faith? So leader, this requires you to sit down, probably before group time, spend a little bit of time meditating, having an answer, and not just winging it right when you get to group time. And being transparent, being vulnerable, sharing a real space that you have sat in yourself.
Because that was just that sets the example. And people will follow your lead every time. I think it's going to be a really great conversation for all of you who are praying for you. If you have those conversations, just know that you have a coach that you can go to.
We all have someone that we can go to for answers, even us as staff members and pastors. And we don't have it all together. And we all have people that we get to go to. So everybody has someone that they get to go to.
So take advantage of that. You don't have to have all the answers. But a really great thing that I always say when people ask me questions is it's a really great question. And don't have the answer for you.
But let me go ask some other people, some wise counsel, and I'll get back to you. That's actually really honoring. I love it when somebody says that to me. Because it means they're going to think about it after.
And they're doing something on my behalf. They're walking alongside and exploring it with me. How honoring is that? That's beautiful.
That's what you get to do is a life together. Yeah, it's great. Walk alongside your people. So we're thankful for you, thankful for all the little conversations that you have that they're just, I can't have all those.
Kim can't have all those. Our team can't have all of those. And the people in your group may not want to have all those with us. But they trust you.
As their leader, you play a really important role in their life. And we're so thankful for that. We cannot shepherd the people of Orange County in Southern California without you. So we're thankful.
Absolutely. So we hope you enjoy your group time. And we'll see you soon.