Hi, this is Sarah Koenig with News About Our Latest Podcast from Serial Productions and The New York Times. It's called Metro. Well, technically it's called Metro with Sarah Koenig because the show is supposed to be by me, but I prefer the name Metro, so let's just go with Metro. Stories about New York City and its most fascinating raw material. New Yorkers.
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This is the Daily on Sunday. Right now, here in New York City, the greatest tennis players in the world are gearing up for the last and arguably biggest event of the year, the U.S. Open. The tournament is played in Billy Jean King National Tennis Center, which is home of the biggest tennis arena on Earth, Arthur Ashe Stadium. Here goes Arthur Ashe and now leading off for the first serve.
It's where Pete Sampras ended his career in an epic match with Andre Agassi, where Venus and Serena Williams first faced off in a major championship final. John McEnroe and Bjorn Bork, Steffi Graff and Monica Celis, Novak Djokovic and everybody. Another winner, just by foot and at all. Some of tennis's most iconic rivalries played out at the U.S. Open.
And that's happening again, but in a new era with new stars jockeying for their place in history. Carlos Alcaras wins his first meet. The Riga Shopper Laker has now won the U.S. It is the first title of the year for Kota Golf. So on today's show, I'm talking with Matthew Futterman, who covers Tennis for the Athletic, a sports publication owned by the Times, and is the author of the new book, The Cruelest Games.
Chasing Greatness in Professional Tennis. We're going to talk about those new stars chasing greatness, their stories, their struggles, their friendships and rivalries. Everything that makes tennis maybe the most compelling and dramatic one-on-one competition anywhere in the world. It's Sunday, August 30th. Matt, welcome to the Sunday Daily. Thanks for being here in studio, taking time away from the grueling U.S. Open schedule.
Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. So I want to start off with a bang. What? To you.
Is the greatest rivalry in tennis history. Hands down, Chris Everett, Martina, and Efratzalova. All you can think about is beating Chris Everett for the second time in three weeks. They played 80 times. We've seen back to back to feet to a Chris who there is 60 of those times that they played were in finals.
Wow. Martina trying to defend her title and Chris trying to win the title for the seventh. They were such a contrast in styles. Martina made a smart play. Can't ride in as she's been doing.
Efratzalova, Eastern European. When I won't and I didn't get this chance of robbing under the Czech government. Chris Everett sort of, I will put this in quotes with that All-American girl next door. Are you getting hit on all the time as well? From men? Are you just scared of the fans?
Yeah, not that much. I mean, I really don't see a lot of men around the circuit today. This is a rivalry that had everything including an incredible personal relationship between the two of them. They were friends. They were incredible friends. They were doubles partners.
That was too hard for Chris Everett to be doubles partners with her big rival. I wasn't the kind of player that really liked to play my friends or my sister or people that I cared about. She stopped playing doubles with her. That was a real personal hurt to Martina. She had just defected to America.
She was all alone and she really felt like her friend had broken up with her. I wanted to be friends with the people that I played against. I preferred that. Also, then Martina started beating Chris all the time and that became very hard. Then Chris kind of fought back, but also they both had that cancer together and gone through treatment together.
She was in the trenches with me and she was comforting me at very important times. We were always there putting each other down. It's not only a completely fascinating sports rivalry. It's a fascinating personal relationship and amazing friendship. Okay, this is precisely what I want to talk about today. The beautiful human drama of tennis.
I think a lot of people who love tennis love it because of the characters. I'm in love with watching this sport in the Serena Williams era, the Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal era. Those players were so important to me. You fall in love with these people. You do. You're up when they're up. You're crushed when they're crushed.
But Matt, I have to admit that this time I'm going into the US Open being like, who exactly am I supposed to be obsessed with here? I don't totally know. That's what I have you here for. I'm hoping you'll tell me. Help me.
It was a little like music. They said that the music you fall in love with for the rest of your life is the music you hear when you're a teenager. The Baxter boys. I think I was a little more fortunate. Springsteen being around when I was a teenager.
I think it's the same way about tennis. You fall in love with that first era. For me, it was Borg, Mack, and Rokhaners, V-Loss. Having said that, I would say you're in a little bit of a moment of transition, although the transition has kind of already happened, but it hasn't quite sorted itself out yet into what the new world order is. What do you mean by that?
You have these giants of the game that had dominated the sport for the last 20 years, and Novak Djokovic. Novak Djokovic, what are you doing? Roger Federer. Federer, turns it up to a left. Grap down the dial.
Next is Federer the doll. Dreena Williams. That's incredible. Touchwise. Serena Williams.
To an extent, her sister, Venus Williams. Venus Williams is the champion once again for the fifth year. So you have these lions and lionesses of the sport who are kind of exiting the stage rather slowly. Kicking and screaming. Yeah, a little bit kicking and screaming.
But they still loom large. They still suck up a huge amount of oxygen in the tennis conversation. But then you have this whole generation of incredibly talented new players who have come along. Yannick Center. Carlos Acres.
Coco Gaff. Arena Sabalanca. Eagish Viantec. And so there's this whole new generation of terrific young players who are not only trying to win tennis matches, but also thrive for 15, 20 years. Because it's incredibly grueling, right?
The schedule that these players maintain over the course of a year. It's grueling both mentally and physically. They're playing what? Seven months a year? Eight months?
How 11? That is... Yeah, I mean an NFL player. Yeah, it's a pretty tough sport. They do get six months of vacation.
Right. And we should say, though these players are playing most of the year, most viewers tune in to these four big tournaments, what we call the Grand Slam tournaments. This is one of four times when these players get in front of a global audience for the biggest prize in their sport. Yeah, those are the slams as they refer to, starts in Australia in January, then French Open, when they're playing the first time. French Open, Wimbledon, and then the US Open.
It all finishes up. They kind of drag themselves to New York, and a lot of them are pretty banged up by the time they get here, which is one of the reasons it makes it sort of the most unpredictable of the Grand Slams. Yes, say what's special about this tournament? The US Open? I mean, well, it starts with just the New York of it all.
No, no, no, no, no, no. This is where barrier breakers be drinkers. It's noisy. It's chaotic. I mean, it is intense.
You can feel it when you're there, but I think you can feel it watching it on TV. The atmosphere, it feels different. And you can be there and take in everything that New York has to offer. And also, and I really highly recommend you don't miss this part of it, there are these people doing what I would argue is just about the hardest sport in the world, a sport that requires the lungs of a marathon or the speed and quickness of a world-class sprinter, you know, ridiculous hand-eye coordination. They're sweating.
They're out there. It's hot. And everything they have with their heart and soul to try and win that last point in a sport that reveals everything about them, their personalities, and there's just no place to hide in this sport. It is human drama playing out in, you know, the most incredibly compelling form with balls and rackets and a lot of athleticism. All right, so given that what I think we should do today is spend some time diving into those people who are going to be doing that amazing thing, the characters that we're going to be following at the US Open.
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If you'd like to support this work, you can become a subscriber at nytimes.com.com. Subscribe. Okay, Matt, let's start with the Women's Draw. Who should we be talking about? New faces, new era, I'm ready.
Well, not so fast because I think we probably need to talk about a rather familiar name. Serena Williams, you might have heard of her. I love her so much. Rather a good tennis player, it turns out. One of the biggest tennis tournaments now set to feature defending champion Carlos Alcaraz and the goat, Serena Williams.
Serena announced a couple weeks ago that she was going to come back and play mixed doubles with Carlos Alcaraz, which is one of the biggest things that has happened in tennis this year. The surprise announcement coming months into Williams comeback campaign, including sort of left reluctantly in 2022 because she wanted to have a second child and really felt like she couldn't do that and also continue to play tennis. It's been the most incredible ride in journey I've ever been in my life. I just really missed the sport. It's interesting because I've done it literally my entire life and so when you stop something that you've done since, honestly, I can remember a start date.
I think you kind of take it for granted. And so now she has been very open about her use of the GLP1 drugs that have helped her lose weight post childbirth. It has really changed her life, she said, as she has put it, it has given her body back. Six times, you had a show in singles champion so three years. She played on Tuesday.
The mixed doubles happens before the singles tournament now at the US Open and it was quite the scene. I mean, you're witnessing a 44 year old mother of two play in a way that I think nobody really thought was possible. Second point of that match. There's like a floater that comes to her and she rears back to stuff this overhead. I'm sitting like 20 rows up and I swear if I'd had my eyes closed, I would have been able to say that Serena Williams is sitting in tennis ball.
It's just classic. It makes your skin tingle. You hear the thump of the ball coming off the strings. That sound is different than when it's coming off any other players racket. And it's just an amazing spectacle to watch.
They lost their next match unfortunately, but it was one of those moments where she was just like so back. We are just so lucky that we still get to see Serena Williams play tennis. I think it is one of life's great joys to watch this person play this sport and we should all treasure it. And it's not over, right? That wasn't the end of Serena Williams in this thing.
No, it wasn't. Coming back for another go at it. She announced a couple of days ago that she is going to play doubles with her sister, Venus. They've won a lot before and who knows? We'll see what they can do.
Okay, so we still get to do this for a little bit longer, at least. Who else should I be keeping an eye on that? And if you say Martina Naverichalova is coming back or something, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. Now, Vetsalova is not coming back. I kind of think you should probably keep your eye on Coco Gopf.
That's what Gopf can do. The great American hope. I'd say at this point she's more than hope. She's the real thing. She won her first grand slam title at this US Open three years ago.
Get out Coco Gopf, you just won the US Open. Last year she won the French Open. Coco has conquered the clay. She's one of these people that is an athlete who could do just about anything. She probably has world-class sprinter speed just about.
You can't hit the ball pastor. She's that fast. But the funny thing about tennis is that guy doesn't give anybody everything. She has a very active mind. And she can get in her head sometimes.
And the last couple years she has really struggled with the most important shot in the game, which has her serve. Every other shot you make, someone's hit a ball at you. The serve is yours. It should be in some ways the easiest shot in the game. And in most cases it's the hardest.
And the easiest to get in your head about. And the easiest to get in your head about. She's already had two double faults in this opening game. I have a put her in a... And it's gotten into her head.
It also can be her biggest strength when Coco's serve is firing as it has been in the last month. She is probably just about the most dangerous player on the planet. Two fantastic serves from Coco Gogog. It's so important to watch her toss. She is on top of that the bell of this ball.
It's her tournament to win or lose, it sounds like. Well, it's not only her tournament. It's her party. I mean, you walk around the grounds of the US Open and Coco is everywhere. You know, you walk around this city over the next few weeks.
Coco is everywhere. There are billboards. There's posters. She's the most popular player, certainly in tennis in America right now. Okay, well, I wouldn't want to play her on these courts.
I don't think we want to play Coco on any court. I think that would be for the best. Fair enough. Yeah. Who is standing in her way?
Like, who's her biggest competition? Probably Arena Sabalinka. Yeah, and Sabalinka. Yeah, and Sabalinka. Yeah, and Sabalinka.
What's done? I mean, Sabalinka have to have to have fun. They played each other in the finals three years ago. Sabalinka crumbled. I really started to get over the skin of Sabalinka.
They played each other in the finals of the French Open last year. Sabalinka crumbled. I was just having a thing on Fort Stair account because they were accumulating quite a bit from Sabalinka. There weren't even that many long points. Long valleys there.
It's just coming so old. Arena Sabalinka. Number one. She's wanted this so badly for Sabalinka. Arena Sabalinka.
That's not one that you out so good. From Belarus, superstar, six-feet tall, huge power, incredible fire. Again, greatest strength, also greatest weakness. So is that incredible fire? Sometimes she loses control of it.
Hmm. She's had a rough couple of months. She's lost a lot of close matches. Earlier in tournaments than we would have anticipated. And tennis is a sport where you bring everything you have onto a tennis court.
You're out there alone. You are your whole self. Compartmentalization can be difficult sometimes. Something about Sabalinka that feels resonant for me watching her is that she is seemingly completely open about her emotions. Just want to quit tennis right now, but we'll see.
We'll see in few days. Hopefully I'll get back on track mentally. I mean, they are all on the court. You watch her crumble when she crumbles. And you see her hype herself up when she's hyping herself up.
There's something very accessible about the kind of waves that she rides. You definitely feel that way. I honestly find watching a Rita Sabalinka a kind of a painful experience. Oh, why? Well, because of those waves, you know, there are some players where you feel like you're the co-pilot with them.
They kind of strap you in for the ride. And Sabalinka sometimes, you know, she brings you in to the car with her. But sometimes that can be a kind of bumpy and uncomfortable ride. And you don't necessarily want to be in the car with her. I mean, Sabalinka, when she is losing and she is on the ropes, you can feel that in a very visceral way.
Okay, so lots emotionally at stake with both Coco Gough and Rita Sabalinka. Who else? Who else could contend? Eagish Viantak, best player in the last five years, seven grandson titles, incredible talent. And what the forehand is cooking, it's so dangerous, you can hit it hard down the line or roll their deep cross-court or short-breatle mentally.
A very, very tough opening match for Eagish Viantak. And you can see what it's taken out of her. She's visibly emotional. Feels her feelings, self-consciousness and self-awareness. Sometimes they're not great things in sports.
Yeah. Better to be the robot, better to be the goldfish. She's not the goldfish. That was scary. Is that Eagish Viantak?
Mira and Draeva, 19 years old. The teenage dream has come true. From Russia, huge new talent broke through with her first grandson title at the French Open earlier this year. It's Mira's moment. It's not.
She's a kid, though, still. Very young. She's a young woman, 19 years old, but she is a kid. Her coach the last couple of years, Conchita Martinez, is essentially Obi-Wan Kenobi. She's Luke Skywalker.
That's the relationship here. Sometimes it works, sometimes Mira can hold it together, sometimes she's a teenage round court. What a remarkable recovery from this 21-year-old. Lillian Naskova, Wimbledon champion, huge talent, only going to get better. She is the latest vanguard of this Czech women's tennis machine.
This is a country of 11 million people. They have like nine players in the top 50. What an advert for Czech tennis, what an advert for women's tennis. Yeah, kind of an incredible thing, so keep an eye on her. Okay, not that I needed more excitement, but you have persuaded me that the women's side of this tournament is very exciting.
Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about the men. This week on The Wire Better Show, we're talking about face sunscreen. What do you think so far about the ones you have tried at this new ingredient? I think it's sunscreen and I'm excited it exists. Find out how the new FDA-approved ingredient is changing formulations and whether our expert thinks it's worth it.
The Wire Better Show is on the near-time gap or wherever you'd like to listen. Matt, the men feel a little more clear to me because there's a proven star in the mix, Carlos Alcarraz, who just played mixed doubles with Serena. Just tell me about him, where he's at right now, how he arrived here and where we encounter him in this moment. Carlos is the golden child of this tennis generation. Carlos Alcarraz wins his first major and in doing so becomes the youngest ever world number one.
And for the most part, Carlos is just about the most joyful tennis player. People, since he came on the scene five years ago, they love to watch him. Oh, no way. But they love to watch him love how much he loves to play. Still celebrating.
You know, he pulls off these shots that it seems like he's just sort of the ultimate jazz musician who's improvising and riffing and doing things that he didn't even know he was capable of. Well, the ball was behind him and he still somehow being able to find the winner. He looked just so he completely over-round this ball. You know, one of the fun things about being a sports writer is there are some athletes that you meet when they're pretty young and you sort of get to see them evolve. And I remember in 2021, I went to one of his early matches, his first match in a singles Grand Slam draw.
After that match, I sort of went for a little walk with him around the Australian Open and no one has any idea who he is or who he's going to become and who he's going to become. And in many ways, he is still that kid on the tennis court. I mean, he's, yeah, life is going to take its toll on him. It probably already has in terms of he's been suffering from a risk injury, probably the most serious injury a tennis player can have. But for the most part, he is, you know, that kid who is still full of joy and I hope for his sake and for all of our sakes, that's who he always does on the tennis court because it's a beautiful thing to watch.
Beautiful rainbow from Carlito. So much of the conversation around men's tennis has orbited. It feels like around Carlos Alcaras and his main rival, Janik Sinner, from Italy. But Sinner is not playing at the US Open because of an injury. So my question is, who is Alcaras's big competition here?
Well, I think if you're asking about his competitors, the first one you have to talk about is Nafak Djokovic, the goat, he's still is tennis's nearest person, just to prevent. Still around and still hoping that it might all come together and he can find a way to a 25th Grand Slam title. He's back in business. He's back in the lot. He is 39 years old.
He is still right just about at the top of the sport, which is just an astounding thing to consider given that he's 39 years old. Can you explain it? How is it that we are still seeing him compete at this level when Carlos Alcaras is 23? So a few years ago, I had dinner with Nafak Djokovic right before the US Open and it's two big salmon steaks, two big sweet potatoes, some rice, some gluten-free pasta with vegetables and a fruit cup. There's no sauce on the salmon, there's no butter on the sweet potatoes.
The only thing on the pasta is olive oil and he's drinking water. Okay. Well, yeah. I mean, so that gives you an idea of how he is living. He gets out of bed every morning and he stretches for 45 minutes.
I mean, I'm painting the picture of a monk, but he takes real joy in this lifestyle. He's really into wellness. You know, he treats his body like a Formula One race car. Every little screw, every drop of oil that is in that car is thought about. He doesn't just accidentally be 39 years old and still be at the top of his game.
So he is intent on continuing to compete at this level and it sounds like he has a real shot at still potentially winning it all. Maybe if his body can hold up, you know, you have to win seven of these matches in order to win the tournament. He's come close. He's won six plus one set. He had Carlos Alcaras on the ropes in January at the Australian Open.
Do you want to get your couple of sets away from number 25? So it is potentially possible. It's at least intellectually possible. Never count. He's still doing it in real time.
I have to confess that I really wanted your answer to that question to be an American because there are many American men in this tournament. Can we? It is the US Open. And it is the US Open. Can we talk about them?
Like who, if you're rooting for an American, should you be getting excited about? Well, there's a lot of them to get excited about. The two players people get most excited about these days who are Americans are probably Ben Shelton and Francis Teapha. Ben Shelton, who is the first player. He takes out.
He's Apollo American. Francis Teapha. Ben Shelton. He's the best athlete I've ever seen on a tennis court. Oh, brilliant.
What a forehand. There's just age old question in American tennis because America has so many sports that compete for the best young athletes, football, baseball, basketball. So we've always wondered what would have happened if Michael Jordan had a tennis racket in his hand when he was eight years old? What about Steph Curry? What about Patrick Mahomes?
In Ben Shelton, you kind of have somebody who may have been one of those people. He was a really good teenage quarterback. I've seen him on this big grass field that Indian Wells throwing 60 yard passes to his fitness trainer. So he could have done that thing. But instead, Ben realized pretty early on that he could miss more school.
He didn't really like school very much. That he could miss Mondays and Fridays if he was a good tennis player because he would be able to travel to some tournaments. So he decided when he was 14 years old that he would get serious about tennis and try and play tennis for his father who was the coach of the University of Florida. And so in some sense, Ben Shelton is the opportunity to see the answer to that experiment of when this great athletic specimen ends up with a tennis racket in his hand. Unfortunately, he got that tennis racket in his hand a little late.
He's probably about eight years behind Carlos Alcaras in terms of how much practice he's had. Carlos Alcaras got serious at six. I tried to do a rough calculation. It's probably on the order of 10 to 15 million balls. Meaning Carlos Alcaras has hit 10 to 15 million more balls than Shelton has.
Probably. Something like that. Having said that in addition, Shelton is one of those players where all the emotions are honestly. He's cut off with a winner. He loves that.
He's a crowd love it too. Lots of noise. Very rowdy. Very in your face. He has brought that on to the tour.
Ruffled some feathers early on for doing that. Oh, that's magnificent. But if there's a place that eats that up, it's in New York. He has like great celebrations. Right.
A huge serve. He's really fond of it. He hits the ball 150 miles an hour. He's arm nearly fell out of his shoulder socket last year at the US Open. Fortunately, it wasn't too serious of an injury.
It's worth saying there's a lot writing on the possibility of an American victory because an American man hasn't won a grand slam. One of those big four tournaments since 2003 when Andy Rodick did it. So we have been waiting for a while. Right. It looked like it was going to happen in 2022 when Francis Tiafo, another great talent terrific athlete who's an American, got really close.
Francis Tiafo says it's my time. He's a son of African immigrants and his father was the maintenance guy at a tennis center. I had no idea. Yeah. And his mother would sometimes work nights.
And so sometimes he and his brother would sleep at the tennis center. And when they were really little, you know, to busy themselves, they would grab a racket and hit balls against the wall. So the tennis pros noticed that the maintenance guys kids were pretty good at tennis. And that's how Francis got his start in the game. Francis Tiafo, hunting every ball down.
Fast forward to 2022. The US Open. He beats Nadal in the fourth round. And people are like, wow, an American is really going places. And this draw is pretty open.
The times they are changing. Problem is he faced off against Carlos Acura as who was just about two days away from becoming the Carlos Acura as that we know today. But yeah, I mean Tiafo is just one of those players that he has, but I would call tennis charisma. Tiafo, putting on a shot. You want to feel like you're the co-pilot, the tennis match?
Go watch Francis Tiafo play. You will be there with him. And you know, he is there for the shot. It's extraordinary. You've played it from the house.
Okay. Anybody else that we need to know about that we should be talking about here? Yeah, well, certainly, Alexander Zverev. But what? One of those.
She's got to see. She's got to see. She's got to see. She's got to see. German player who's been the best grantland player this season, nearly B.Dakura as the Australian Open, won the French Open, and then he lost in the final De Yannic Center at Wimbledon.
He's had some off-court problems. Yeah, there were allegations of domestic abuse with former girlfriends. There have been lots of issues around Alexander Zverev. There's also Arthur Feace, who is a French player, absolutely a rising star, won his first big tournament last week in Cincinnati. He's a similar athletic specimen to Ben Shelton, not quite as tall, but seriously powerful.
Only issue is he's had this stress fracture in his back the last year or so, and even he doesn't think that he's going to be a champion when it might crop up again. You know, it seems as though there are ifs hanging over all of them. And I'm wondering, you have studied this sport so closely for so long, Matt. What do you think makes the difference? What determines how you get from that question mark to actually achieving the kind of victory that you need to be an enduring figure in this sport?
That's a great question. Do you and I would be grand slam champions probably? That's why I'm acting. Look, you never know, right? You never know.
So, you know, in talking to these players, especially the great ones, there's a couple of key factors. One of them is understanding that your results are not your identity. And that... Where it's to live by? Yeah, right?
For all of us. Yeah, for all of us. Like, you are so much more of a person than you are on the tennis court. I mean, that's an incredibly hard thing to do when it's the only thing you've done since you're eight years old, and then you wake up and you're twenty-two and you wonder, wait a minute. I haven't really done anything else.
Like, who am I? How did I get here? What do I want to do with the rest of my life? So, yeah, results and identity can't be the same thing. There has to be a great focus on what's coming next.
The shot you just hit is over. If you're still thinking about it, you're going to miss the next ball. There's always another ball coming at you. There's always another point to play. There's always another set to play.
A match, like, another tournament. Next week, you have to have this incredible focus on what comes next. We talked about Arena Sableanka crumbling like that and her emotion getting the best of her. What we've gotten really good at in the last couple years is breathing. I think that's one thing to watch when you're watching the US Open, is watch what these players do in between points.
Do they turn around and yell at their box and kick themselves? Or do they close their mouth and breathe quietly through their nose? Because that's the whole key to the sport. In some ways, that's the key to all of our lives. The only thing that really should matter is what you do next because the thing that just happened, it's gone.
You can't change it. You can't change it. That is never more true than on a tennis court. So, you know, what I really believe and what I see from the great players and what they tell me, what they've told me that they've tried to do is to commit themselves to intentions, commit themselves to showing up as a certain kind of person on the tennis court and to understand that you're going to lose half the points or nearly half the points. And you just got to win the right ones and win enough of them to win the match and move on to the next one.
Well, I do think there is something in there for all of us in Quiting the IFS. I had a tennis coach growing up who always used to say when any of us got in our heads to just smile and remember, tennis is fun. So, I am going to be watching this tennis mat. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thanks so much for having me. It's really great to be here.
Today's episode was produced by Alex Barron with help from Tina Antilini and Laina Richards. It was edited by Wendy Doar, production assistance in fact checking from Dahlia Hadad, and original music by Dan Powell and Mary Lozano. It was engineered by Rowan Nien Stowe. That's it for the Sunday Daily. I'm Natalie Kitroweth. See you tomorrow.
I'm Gilbert Cruz. This week on the Book Review Podcast, we have a special Halloween treat, or treat. Two hard riders recommend some titles that are sure to keep you up at night. I am a big fan of sentient houses in general. I think this is one of the scariest books I've ever read.
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