EPISODE · May 22, 2026 · 40 MIN
Why are we doing this?
from Continuous Agitation · host Jay Fram and Bill Sawalich
Continuous Agitation — Episode 1: Why Are We Doing This?This first episode is an origin story — why two working photographers decided to start recording their phone calls and sharing them with strangers. We’ve been having these conversations for years and figured other photographers might get something out of it. But also: Jay can't find much content that reflects the business reality he’s actually living in. Not tutorials. Not influencers teaching us how to establish a personal vision. Just plain talk about commercial photography from people who are in it, confounded by it, and not pretending otherwise. We touch on AI image generation — and the fact that it’s not photography. We were both relieved to hear Rob Haggart and Heather Morton say publicly that they wish it never happened. Not that that solves anything. We talk about what has actually changed in the business, and the disorienting experience of knowing what a job used to be worth, having no idea what it's worth now, and wondering if the confusion is a character flaw or just an accurate read of the situation. "What's the value of an image with a lifespan of literally hours?" That's kind of the whole show. But, you know, like not that bad.Links to stuff we mention: Chris Buck — PhotographerChris Buck’s Lena Dunham Blog PostA Photo Editor — Rob Haggart's long-running blog about the photography businessHeather Morton (@hmphotoprof) on InstagramRob and Heather on “The Grain” Podcast about “Photography vs. AI”Adam FussMan Ray — Artist and photographer; inventor of the Rayograph, the original camera-free photographic imageTheo Welling — Photographer, mutual friend; "see if you can figure out what's going on." Find us: Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayframFollow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalichRead Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comJay's photography: jayfram.comBill’s photography: sawalich.comWrite to us: [email protected] / [email protected] Rate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.
What this episode covers
Continuous Agitation — Episode 1: Why Are We Doing This?This first episode is an origin story — why two working photographers decided to start recording their phone calls and sharing them with strangers. We’ve been having these conversations for years and figured other photographers might get something out of it. But also: Jay can't find much content that reflects the business reality he’s actually living in. Not tutorials. Not influencers teaching us how to establish a personal vision. Just plain talk about commercial photography from people who are in it, confounded by it, and not pretending otherwise. We touch on AI image generation — and the fact that it’s not photography. We were both relieved to hear Rob Haggart and Heather Morton say publicly that they wish it never happened. Not that that solves anything. We talk about what has actually changed in the business, and the disorienting experience of knowing what a job used to be worth, having no idea what it's worth now, and wondering if the confusion is a character flaw or just an accurate read of the situation. "What's the value of an image with a lifespan of literally hours?" That's kind of the whole show. But, you know, like not that bad.Links to stuff we mention: Chris Buck — PhotographerChris Buck’s Lena Dunham Blog PostA Photo Editor — Rob Haggart's long-running blog about the photography businessHeather Morton (@hmphotoprof) on InstagramRob and Heather on “The Grain” Podcast about “Photography vs. AI”Adam FussMan Ray — Artist and photographer; inventor of the Rayograph, the original camera-free photographic imageTheo Welling — Photographer, mutual friend; "see if you can figure out what's going on." Find us: Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayframFollow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalichRead Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.comJay's photography: jayfram.comBill’s photography: sawalich.comWrite to us: [email protected] / [email protected] Rate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.
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Why are we doing this?
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