Hello, thank you for joining us once again. My name is Matt Phillips. I'm here listening to RunChat Live episode six. So episode six came as a result of feedback from episode five.
I'm hoping if I'm managing through these podcasts to reach out to more runners, the ones who know me or have heard of me, that the way I challenge stretching in episode five of RunChat Live actually rustled a few feathers. It certainly did when the original Facebook Live went out. Even some therapists were sending me some very expressive messages on social media about how there's a trend now to kind of criticize stretching too much, but I'm fairly adamant that we need to stop spending so much time stretching as runners. So in this podcast, I basically tell you why.
Starting to think, well, what sort of range of movement do I need for running? You know what, it's not much more than walking. Okay, bear that in mind. So yeah, it's a follow up.
I hope you enjoy it. And if you do then obviously please leave some comments. You can always go to my website, sports, and dream actor from UK. Ask me any questions.
So yeah, here we go. Okay, we live. So about a slight late start, phone calls. Because we are once again, actually do a 57 click.
It's going busy now. So just a quick reminder that if you are looking to book in, because of the race season coming out and everything, then yeah, do call up. I'm here on Sundays and Mondays. Yeah, obviously we've got another team of 10 who work outside.
But if you want to see me in particular, then just a reminder book out, you can book online, or call the clinic on 01273 7113.9. Just get in there because it is in there. Anyway, welcome to another Sunday morning live chat. For those of you who don't know, my name is Matt Phillips.
And I'm here at Studio 57 clinic, Stridew K, Gates Analysis in Hove, Sussex, England. Today, what are you talking about? We're looking at, yeah, stretching again, which I was a bit worried about. But after talking to a wonderful section of coaches from British triathlon yesterday up in Guilford, I realized that it's still a subject full of misconceptions and something that's still worth me talking about.
So I'm glad I went to that presentation. I'm glad I talked to the coaches. And because it's given me confidence today. There's a problem is in the circles I mix, especially on social media, I'm sure other people find this, is you kind of, there's a danger of any hanging out with people who share your opinion.
So, I'm going to go a bit more again. By hanging out with people with your own opinion, you kind of think that everybody knows it. You think that everybody, you've got nothing left to say. So it's always rewarding when you do go out into the real world, when you go outside of Twitter and Facebook and Instagram.
And you talk to the real people when you realize that a lot of what you've got to say is still not out there. Social media is still a drop in the ocean. Because we do mix and circles, which are full of people who already know what we're saying. And they're saying they're just confirming our biases.
So anyway, yeah, stretching. And the other reason why I'm talking about stretching again, is because there was some interesting questions put to me by somebody who hasn't got back to me yet about whether I'm able to mention his name or not. So I'm not going to. But yeah, he put a post on Facebook, suggesting that a lot of therapists now are totally anti-stretching.
And it's gone over the top. I think he's got an ebook on stretching. So obviously it's touched him personally. And he thinks some therapists go over the top and there's like now a pandemic of, you don't need to stretch over his bad view based on just a couple of studies.
So, rather than, I tried to apply a couple of times, but you know, you just get tired of texting and you've got other things going on. So I said to him, look, I'll apply in a post. I'll do it. I'll apply in a Facebook broadcast because it allows me to put up this easier, isn't it?
And then typing out and sending and then waiting. So some of the challenges that were kind of put to me was that stretching. One of the main ones that hit me was, even if you don't use a range of movement, then having that range of movement has a benefit because it increases your capacity. The actual word was load capacity.
So because my argument was, how many times a day do you actually touch your toes? Think about runners for the moment. Let's just think of functional, just everyday talks. How many times a day do you need to actually touch your toes and keeping your legs straight?
I.e. require that extensibility and hamstrings? An interesting point was maybe I wanted the coaches yesterday and said, well, that's why we've got knees and it kind of got laughed and it was fantastic. But it's true, we've got knees to bend our legs.
If I'm putting a shoe on or doing a shoelace up, I don't need to keep my leg totally straight. If I'm picking something up off the floor, I don't need to keep my legs totally straight. We've got knees to make that unnecessary so I thought it was quite amusing. And I still, so I replied, we don't know why, but the training for something we're not gonna use.
But there's this idea that having more of it actually helps maybe prevent injury or gives us greater capacity. I still claim that for everyday tasks, that's like I'm not short to get a strong argument. And also, let's imagine that you do something, you slip up in some snow and your leg goes off at a crazy angle as if you were unattacking a ball in football. So your doctor muscles, for example, your hamstrings are put under a great strain.
If you had that range of movement, if you trained yourself to be able to do the splits, would you therefore save yourself from injury? And I would suggest that the answer's no because having a range of movement, having flexibility is not a skill. It won't really save you from anything unless you've got the strength and the control and the coordination and the timing and all these other elements of fitness and health, which allow you to actually use that range. And this is a big factor over why, especially when it comes to sport, if you're not using a range, there's no advantage, you can't really take flexibility out of the equation as if it's something that needs to be developed by itself.
You will get flexibility for a sport by training that sport. Even in sports like martial arts and dance, I'm from a martial art background, so this is maybe why this is quite personal to me and why I enjoy talking about stretching. My party piece was always jumping up and doing the splits. I can do that because I used to train whatever three times a week and I'd be doing ballistic training.
But I'd be kicking people in the head for three days a week, not always in the head, but I'd be going for high kicks. So because I was using that movement all the time, my body for whatever mechanism, which is interesting as well, but I was able to do it. So at parties I would jump into the splits and whoa, there's something I was mispopling. Of course, when I gave up martial arts and moved more into half marathon runs, then I noticed that I started losing that flexibility.
And for me, it was a particularly painful realization because suddenly at parties I was jumping up to do the splits on the dance floor in an abbreviated state and I was suffering the consequences when I hit the floor. And I therefore found out, much immediately to everyone else, that I couldn't really have the best of both worlds. If I was no longer practicing kicking high, then I was no longer gonna have that flexibility. And I'd drawn that experience a lot to explain why, for example, in running, we're never gonna use that flexibility.
You shouldn't really be kicking people in the head during a marathon or half marathon or any distance race. And if you don't use it, and there's the expression of if you lose it, you lose it. If you don't use it, then you lose it. Connect it to the new system.
I think it's a big one in a clickable. You don't necessarily lose it, but you'll snooze it. So if you don't use that range in a coordinated, strength-based way, then it'll snooze and you won't be using it anymore. It won't be that easy to get into that range.
So anyway, yes, the idea of having range opening windows opportunity and saving it, I can't buy that place till the end of this week. So obviously for me, it's all about educating runners. And that was one of the big conversations. The first half of the talk yesterday was about stretching for runners, because it's something that still go to a park run or go to a race and I don't know, 90% of the people are still going up on a post and they're trying to stretch out their hamstrings.
So I'll be kneeling down and trying to stretch their hip flexors. It's still done, even though the coaches kind of said, we don't give static stretching before runs anymore and eukathetics and British triathlons kind of the training courses that it's stretching out, runners are still doing it. It's still happening and majority. So that's why I thought today we'd ask why.
Why do we stretch? So you, if you're a stretcher, then just have a few moments to think, why do you do it? What do you think is achieving? Have you had another time?
Good. So most of the reasons why people stretch is, for example, before or after a run is for injury prevention. Let's use that first of all. People believe that if you stretch before a run or if you stretch afterwards, it'll reduce your risk of injury.
Okay, and that's a heavy reason to stretch. Okay, I understand why runners do that because no one is one to get injured. The evidence though, that's something we always have to look at. Okay, don't assume just because everyone does end, just because it's all over the internet and just because even like even other physios and health professionals tell you to do it, don't assume that it's for that reason, correct?
Because actually the evidence is not there. Okay, as far as injury prevention goes, not there at all. Okay, it's almost past week is there's even studies out there which show that it could potentially increase the risk of injury. Okay, especially if you've got a large range of motion and you haven't got the control through that range.
Potentially one of the reasons that female athletes run into different types of injuries because they have got more flexibility and more range of movement around the joints. And it always surprises runners when they come in here and I say, you know what your issue is? You're actually too flexible. And the number of times I get run again, what do you mean I'm too flexible?
I'm spending every single day trying to become flexible because that's what I'm told. And now you're telling me that because I'm too flexible, I'm getting injured and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't kill the messenger. I'm just kind of planting the seed. Then when we look at the evidence and physiology, yes, you have an extreme range of motion, but you haven't got control over that range.
And the last thing you want to do is just be stretching and then pointing out more range. It doesn't make sense. We need to work at controlling that range, having mobility as opposed to flexibility. How do I do that?
They would ask me and I said, well, to get control over the range, we need to start doing some strength. We need to start using that range under a load so you can actually control it. And then dictate when you use it, when you don't use it, deceleration as well as acceleration, all that kind of stuff. You don't get that from holding an end point and just stretching the head out of the muscle with your leg in the end of the strap.
It doesn't come. And you certainly don't get it by someone else holding your leg and pushing down on you. So as far as injury prevention goes, sorry, but if that's your reason for stretching, not much evidence for it. And what's more, there's better, more evidence-based ways of reducing injury risk out there.
And this is the main issue I have with people stretching too much is because by devoting their harder than time and free time to stretching, their potentially missing out on something else. Anyway, sorry, injury prevention. Why else people stretch? The other reason, they believe that it will reduce soreness, reduce storms.
Okay, that's another reason why people particularly stretch after a run. Again, done by most people. And at the triathlon prevention yesterday, coaches were quite surprised that I was kind of suggesting that post-run static stretching might be either a waste of time or potentially damaging and increase soreness. So the evidence shows that it definitely won't reduce, well, in most cases it doesn't reduce soreness.
In fact, in some cases, and it makes sense when you look at the physiology, after you've run a particularly hard session, it's natural to have tears. We tear our muscles all the time, little micro tears. We need to tear our muscles, to then force the system to adapt, repair gets stronger, which is why we need to eat well, sleep and let our body grow. And then the little tears heal and get stronger, and that's how we get stronger.
So after a particularly hard session, if you've got these micro tears, let's say, in your hamstrings, and you're taking your hamstrings to end point and aggressively trying to stretch it, potentially the theories you could be increasing these micro tears are something more substantial, and that in itself could lead to more soreness. And again, it's anecdotal, but a lot of runners who come here and they're suffering from lots of soreness after their runs, and they have quite rigorous static stretching kind of reaching after their runs. I'll say to them, well, look, let's test it out. Okay, let's try backing down on the stretching a bit.
If your hip flexor is aching like hell, let's not stretch it after you're on to see what happens. Okay, because after testing is a great way of doing stuff. Okay, we can look at the evidence that's really important, but let's see what happens to you. And again, it's anecdotal, but the amount of runners who come back to me and say, I hit fix, not hurt this week.
And the only thing I've kind of changed is not stretching the head out of it after a run. Bingo, that'll do for me. Okay, so if you are stretching and spending a long time stretching after runs, because you believe it would use your soreness, unlikely, okay? The evidence suggests that the main reason for soreness after exercise is because you've made an effort that I'll be a deep dammit, I thought that said beauty.
Oh, it's quite touch then. Thanks, Lab, yes, thank you. So yeah, if you are sore after an exercise, it might mean that you've done too much, okay? Or it might mean that's just what you need to expect after a hard session.
If you're sore all the time, then maybe you're just doing too many hard sessions in a row. Maybe you're not kind of adhering to that 20% principle of 20% hard sessions, 80% in sessions where you're not necessarily hard, sore afterwards. Okay, so, intervention, weak evidence for stretching. Soreness, avoiding doms, weak evidence.
Performance enhancement, okay? So some people believe that they stretch before a run, because they believe it will help their performance. Again, evidence very weak. In fact, evidence suggests in some studies that stretching aggressively in a static way, like holding stretches for 20 seconds or more before a run, could actually reduce your performance.
I know, reduce it. So studies have shown that giving five static stretches for 20 or 30 seconds to run is, both to elites and to recreational distance runners can actually reduce either the time at which they complete a 13 minute test run or spin as well. So yeah, static stretching can be shown to reduce a distance run of 30 minutes and the time to complete a sprint. It's tising quite nicely with the theory of the whole elastic, we call it exchange system with tendons needing to absorb the ground energy and then release it.
And if you've got too much flexibility around a joint, then you basically absorb less of that energy, you've got a slinky spring. So kind of tising quite nicely. But yeah, if you are stretching because you believe it will help your performance, evidence wise, unlike it helps your performance and could potentially even be decreasing it. That's been so far.
It's a reason why people stretch. Because it feels good. Okay, it feels good when I do it. Fantastic.
Okay, this is the one reason for stretching that I cannot argue against. If it feels good for you, then do it. I love stretching. Most of us start off each day with a nice big stretch.
Like a cat. Yeah, it's fantastic. Stretching obviously makes us feel good. We're not quite sure why there could be some physiological change or release of some form, but there's no doubt about it and it happens in the wild animals do it.
But you don't see a cat stretching his or her hamstrings or hip flexes before they're about to jump up on a shed. And I'm sorry if that sounds kind of cynical, but it's just we have to develop these beliefs that stretching can do more than it actually can. Where they've come from. I don't know who knows.
I guess stretching is something that if you believe in these things, it's something that can then be taught. It's something that can be sold, something that can be marketed, maybe, I don't know. But the evidence is not there and there's definitely not enough evidence to support all the different types of stretching that are out there. Because that's another thing as well.
A lot of people who, excuse me, some people even in the conference yesterday, some coach said, oh yes, man, we know that that's stretching is no good. But what about kind of the more advanced type of stretching? What about the proprioceptive neuromuscular facilative stretching? The cracks and the C-R's and the AC's and all these type of advanced stretches?
Well, Jumbo, unfortunately, none of these advanced type of stretches have actually shown to have any more benefit than static stretching. Even if you put a contraction in before the release, even if you've got a therapist pushing against their arm, you're holding it and then you're releasing it and then passively, actually pushing you into a more range. All of these kind of different combinations, which involve somebody helping you or you're using a rope. No evidence to support, I'm afraid.
Sorry about that, if you are a practitioner and you use this in your therapy a lot, that's not to say you don't see momentary gains in flexibility. Definitely, we see that all the time in the gym and in clinic, we can increase your flexibility in 10 seconds just by having you lie down and doing one of these techniques. But there's a problem, one, does it actually last that long? Or as soon as you, 10 minutes after you've been walking outside or when you wake up the next days, it's still there?
Two, what are you hoping to achieve by increasing this flexibility? Even if it lasted for an extra kind of, even if it lasted for days or months. Again, looking at the reasons why are we trying to increase your flexibility? Because it feels good, yep, no doubt about it.
If you're doing these advanced techniques because your runner feels better when they leave the clinic and they will feel better. If you're loose, so it's like having a click and adjustment. You're gonna walk out feeling great, but let's make sure that as professionals, we're aware of how long that sensation is gonna last for. Because you know what the problem is, if that person, if we know that person is coming back next week with the same range and the same pain and the same aches as when they came to you week before, and you're charging them again and again and again, then that starts knocking on the door of unethical.
If you're not saying anything, if you're happily increasing their range and then they come back and it's the same, and you increase it, comes back, increase it. You've got to ask yourself a question, right, and take your money for this. And in the meantime, they're still suffering from the same problems and injuries and pain, et cetera. Then you're knocking on a pretty nasty door.
So yeah, there we go. What else I said about it? Yoga. That's the thing I want to fish up.
What time is it? Oh, five to 10. Okay, I'm trying to make these less than a half an hour now. I've got nothing against yoga.
I love yoga, okay? Depending on what the goal of the teacher and what your reason for going to yoga is. The difference between yoga and just holding a stretch is the mind connection, okay? It's the movement, it's specific postures, not so much.
Okay, holding a particular posture will gain strength because you're trying to maintain that position, but it's moving from that posture into another posture. And when I talk to the yoga teachers who we work with here at Studio 57 Clinic in strategy K, I need to make sure that that yoga teacher believes that the advantages of yoga are not increasing range necessarily for most people. It's about again, developing control, strength, balance, coordination, the ability to move in and out to positions. It's not just, let's see how if we can get you to touch a toes.
Okay, and there's an awful lot of yoga teachers out there who already know that and they convey it to their class and make sure that people are just trying to increase their range. Because all about the people who don't need to increase range, generalizing, but most women do not need to increase their range of movement. They've already got, if not more than enough, especially if they're trying to do well at some particular sport involves an elastic recall, some kind of spring mechanics. If they're going to yoga, it's because they need to develop that strength, that coordination, the balance, the ability to control movement, whilst they're breathing in all the mind, relaxations and all the other wonderful things that come with not just yoga, it's like she and Pilates and all these kind of movements within 10th.
So please don't have the idea that I'm anti-stretching, just to sum up, I'm not at all. What I'm against is, well, against what I try to tell people is that if you want to stretch and that's great, if it feels great, then keep doing it obviously. But make sure you know that what your intention for stretching is might not be true. If you think you're preventing injury, you're probably not.
If you think that you're going to be less sore, you're probably not. If you think you're enhancing your performance, you know, chosen sport, you're probably not particularly running. OK? And if you've got any of those three, which you're concentrating your time, money and efforts on, then if you take stretching out the equation, you're more likely to start looking for something else, whether it's running form or maybe it's strength, or maybe it's agility, coordination, all the other factors of fitness.
And that's the important thing. So I think that's my conclusion, or my summary for today. If you've got any questions, as always, then leave them in the comments. Next week, I've already got an idea I'm going to talk about, but I'd like to kind of leave it open in case someone asks me something, or objects to something or criticizes.
I think next week, if I don't get anything to the opposite, I'm going to talk about this whole idea of running form, and what we're chasing, what we think is the idea where we need to run. Most people realize there's not one optimum running form. We're going to look at the different styles of running form, and whether we should be trying to mimic one of those or another one of those. So that's what's coming up next Sunday, I believe, at 9.30am.
Thanks for watching live, if you did, if you're watching the recorded version, then thanks as well. Always appreciated if you can spread it on social media. They're getting quite popular these now, which is great. But do please spread them, share them, let people know when I put their miners on.
Because I think that's a great way to get information out of them, which is all I'm trying to do. I've already got full day today and clear. So it's not like I'm trying to try my business, believe me, I only work two days and click on it. Teach you the days.
So just get any information out there, educating miners. Because at the end of the day, that's what I want to do. I just want to get one of their healthier PNAPBs. And if they want to in the process, I might help me get that PB, then that makes my day.
So thank you very much. We'll see you later on. Sunday at 9.30 a.m. Bye bye.
You're listening to OneChat Live Podcast, putting the evidence back into running injury and performance.