Why Rest Doesn't Cure Burnout: A Conversation with My Friend, Zisi Zirkind

Today, I sit down with my friend, Zisi Zirkind for an unscripted conversation about burnout, motherhood, faith, friendship, and the holy delusion of believing your soul is needed in this world.This isn't an interview; it's a conversation between two close friends. We talk about why it's not always doing less that restores our energy, the undervaluing of women's work and how we each experience meaning in our homes, why faith doesn't have to be rigid to be strong, how we hold paradox in every identity, and how friendship can help us each remember who we are.Zisi Zirkind is the Rebbetzin of Yeshiva Center in Melbourne, teaches Chassidus through her weekly women’s Torah classes, teaches guided research classes at Ohel Chana Seminary, and is the host of the podcast Standing Between Earth and Sky. Find her podcast here: https://open.spotify.com/show/0EOKqR8gwDDnEEvq7W02z3?si=0c228c7fbde34a5f Contact her at [email protected].* * * * * * *To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at [email protected] support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.* * * * * * *TIMESTAMPS:00:00:00 Host's Intro: A Conversation Between Friends00:02:25 Welcome Zisi Zirkind 00:02:50 Springboarding ideas as a way of bridging the human and holy00:04:01 How much do I trust myself?00:04:53 When you're taking a leap 00:05:19 A friend who can see you clearly 00:06:14 Sustained creative devotion is supported by a witness00:08:14 Why sharing an idea forces it to become real00:10:10 Is this my animal soul or my divine soul?00:11:41 Delusion of separateness vs. delusion of holiness00:12:54 Does what I do matter?00:14:28 Burnout happens when you're not lit up by what you're doing00:14:41 What will actually energize you?00:17:06 Busy but not doing the right things00:17:36 The Rebbe's "add another one" — what was he actually saying?00:18:27 Showing up before the energy comes00:20:27 The seductive permission to wallow 00:21:50 "I had to make a choice that I'm going to love my life again"00:22:08 Hosting vs. being hosted — what really makes a place yours00:24:08 Dissolution of self prepares you to rise00:24:50 When to add, and when you need more support 00:25:42 Delegating what depletes you -- "I'm sick of cleaning" 00:27:10 Excellence and pride in the work nobody sees00:27:55 Bringing the same creativity to home life 00:28:35 Why the years that look like pause are often the years that change you00:31:51 Bringing your full self into your home 00:32:29 Letting yourself enjoy what you didn't think was "you" — dropping the identity attachment00:33:43 Paradox: when opposing realities exist at once00:35:17 Teaching style: opening to the text vs. filing it into systems00:38:05 Tanya's permission for multiple parts of self to coexist00:38:08 Trusting that Torah's truth can hold your questions00:38:39 After the Bondi terror attack: "Faith doesn't have to be rigid to be strong" 00:41:51 Faith from intuition, not intellect00:42:35 Why paradox can only be experienced00:43:02 Faith as identity: "I'm here. This is who I am."00:44:34 The ego in Torah study, and what it costs us00:45:50 The never-ending process00:47:38 Host's Outro