Welcome to Stacking Growth, Call to Action, a show for the Trailblazers, change makers, and paradigm shifters. Each week, a different marketing hero who is called to make a change in their field will join us to walk through each step of their journey. They'll cover the highs, the lows, and what's coming next. Together, we'll help you find the changes needed for your own business to win.
I'm Steph Kraniola here with Evan Hughes, and today we are so excited to welcome Refine Labs director of demand generation, Kerry Emodio. Kerry reinforces Refine Labs' focus on tracking and adapting to the shift in buyer behavior in the digital age, marrying that shift with a commitment to repurposing high-value gated content into a multi-channel, ungated content strategy. Kerry, thank you so much for being here. We're so excited to chat with you.
Oh, excited to be here. Thanks guys. So start with telling us a little bit about yourself, your journey into marketing, and maybe some of your experience with traditional gated content strategies. My journey into marketing is actually somewhat boring, but maybe I got an interesting start.
I went to school for public relations, and I knew that I wanted to be something to do with that, and whether it went the journalism route or whether it went like the marketing business route. So I started applying to a bunch of different jobs, and interestingly enough, I had on my resume that I knew HTML5, the coding language, and I knew this because millennials know this. I used to edit my space page. Yeah.
Amazing. And that is how I got my first interview. I got my foot in the door because they were so impressed. They were like, how do you know HTML?
And I was like, well, let me tell you. And that's how I got my start. So that first role that I had was in digital marketing, and I was, I kind of owned the landing pages, the email creation. So got my start really on both the organic, social media side, and then tapped a little bit into the page side as well.
It all started with my space. But I've always been in the tech B2B world. From there, from that role, I moved into really a heavy focus on organic social media and content creation. And there is really where I kind of fell in love with content and the idea of what we're going to talk about today, like repurposing and recycling content and creating it in different ways to speak to different audiences, so on and so forth.
And then from there is where I shifted into where I am today, which is more on the paid media side. I've been on in agency roles for about six years now. So it's been really fun getting to know lots of people. I love working for agencies just because it's so it's a roller coaster, right?
Like you kind of don't exactly know what you're going to be doing maybe months to month, you know, with their reality is you're working with different people, different teams. There's internal turnover, external turnover. So it's been a lot of fun. I like that no two days are the same and I get to meet lots of really cool and really smart, inspirational people.
Such a positive spin on agency life. Thank you. Because I'm sure we all have moments of just wanting to rip our hair out and absolute cluster. But I think it's like that in-house at times too.
Oh, yeah. Everywhere. Everywhere. Awesome.
You talk a little bit about your entry point one. I think that's the best leading story is my space landing you a job. Like tell Tom because he deserves to know that that advanced your career. But also kind of thinking about the journey of marketing, right?
We talked a lot about like traditional content being around gated content. It was really just how we built the engine. It's really what marketing was built off to build a contact database. It was what we used to really distribute our newsletter, our content, our sales team, SDRs, BDRs, depending on vertical.
We all kind of got that. I mean, a lot of us that came to refine labs was purposeful because we recognize there was a shift in buyer behavior a little bit. And I would love for you to talk us through a little bit where you knew that it was time to kind of make that change. You started to understand that we needed to make a shift.
You were starting to see markets move and you wanted to be a part of that. I hate to say movement, but you know, just like marketers thinking differently and challenging their norms. So I love to hear kind of what was the one like moment of aha, I need to make this shift or this is the time to do it. The blessing of working for an agency is that I do get to experience working with many different clients at once.
And so it's not like I was just working in-house and I didn't like how one company was doing something. So I was working with dozens of clients over the years, you know, tens of, you know, maybe a hundred clients over the past six years, like I don't even know how many if I counted, there were such a trend among every single one of them. And that was they were generating leads. I remember working in paid media now at this point in my career and we're generating paid leads.
That's really all we're going after. I'm owning LinkedIn. I'm owning Facebook. I'm owning Google and they are not seeing the return.
And I'm hearing the same story over and over and over and over of Google searches working. How do we make social work? That is like the biggest piece of the puzzle. And for me, like I know that I'm pulling all the right letters.
I know that I'm targeting the right people. Like I know what to look for. I know how to optimize. So it wasn't for me like a lack of experience.
I have the right content despite this being like lead generating gated content. The content was like decent, right? Like the content was educational and the messaging was on point and it was resonating. But we're noticing that we were not getting this return on investment.
These leads were going nowhere. They were just downloading an ebook and they were not converting to revenue. And these leads were pretty expensive over the years. I had seen like for for one client in particular, I remember they were spending like a million dollars a month on LinkedIn because they were getting so much out of it at one point and their leads were like $100 and then over the course of like two years, their cost per lead was up to $1,000, which without really even changing their strategy.
Like the competition had picked up and like lead the costages increased to generate leads was not cost effective over time because of this shift in market behavior. So for me, I am continuing to just drive leads because the clients are telling me they have these lofty lead goals to hit. And but I'm hearing from them that nothing's coming out of them. So I as a lowly, you know, maybe manager or director at that point of at an agency, like what, what can I do to really change anybody's perspective here?
I don't work in house. I just work for the paid media agency. It's very difficult to change somebody's entire mindset when you don't have like the agency behind you or you're not like the team behind you. And I've also never done it before.
I've never seen anybody else do it. That's just the reality. You're as one person, you could say, listen, we need to start investing in top of funnel. We need to start creating demand.
But at the end of the day, when they have these crazy goals to hit and they just have this one person saying, hey, maybe you should try something else. It's very difficult. So what I came across with starting and if you're a marketer on LinkedIn, you see this all the time of these conversations that are happening with these influencers out there, like Chris Walker, for example, Megan Bowen is out there, like we're all talking about the same things now is this shift that happened in just B2B buying behavior where, you know, these businesses being done differently back in the day you used to be able to go to conferences to get information from people and you used to, there used to be a lot more like a face-to-face interaction. Now there's so many messages out there, right?
There's so our news feeds and even any kind of display ads and our commercials, the way that we are being inundated with ads, whether it's consumer ad or business ad, it's everywhere, there's so much out there. So competition is completely up. That's why the costs are rising. And we need to look for ways to find efficiencies and we need to look for ways to make an impact on the market without just saying, hey, download this e-book for us and then we're going to spam your inbox with a bunch of follow-up emails.
We need to focus on building trust and credibility and that is going to start with really great messaging and really great content. So I thought that was a long-winded answer to like my journey and also the shift that the market has taken but it is kind of all flows together, I think. No, it's super intentional because the evolution kind of takes place with the advancement of technology, right? We all have access to resources a lot faster, the whole buying journey and awareness stage, we've been inundated with ad for a whole life that it's easy to turn a blind eye, not necessarily recognize those.
And I think we're probably more sensitive to it as well and the marketing sphere of like gated content and how it's a bit of a bait and switch, right? We know that more often than not, what we get back from a e-book or a word doc is absolute garbage. You know, it's kind of just a bunch of words crammed in there and then we start getting spam. And I think there's, but there's also times where I downloaded a resource and it's been extremely valuable and I kind of scratched my head.
I'm like, why the hell is this gated behind, like, needing my email when I could download this or access this for free or send a link to my co-workers who may be in the buying committee and start that drip campaign? And I think that that's one thing that we've started to evaluate. We traditionally looked at social media as direct response, right? We tried to create this like click to lead.
We knew exactly how to measure attribution from Google ads paid search, tried to evolve into social and we tried to create this norm and be to be for like a director's consumer play. And I think that that's the gated content. And I guess that's kind of another long ended way of saying like, I don't understand why companies found this valuable when they were attaching it to revenue at your point, right? And we become silent a bit.
Yeah. And that barrier that you're creating when you're dating it, like you said, you might have this awesome piece of content and you just cut down the amount of people actually going to read it by so many because you put that barrier up and not only are you kind of wasting your content and creating resources and time and money, like everything that went into that. But you're creating this, this, this opportunity to capture more attention, right? Like you're kind of building distrust, like it's the opposite of building trust with your audience.
You're leaving a bad taste in their mouths where you're like, they go to download this awesome checklist that you created and they're like, oh, email, please. And they're like, no, no, forget it. I'm just going to go to a competitor. I'm just going to go search Google.
I'm just going to go ask AI. Like you had the answer right in front of them and you just lost the opportunity to grab their attention. Absolutely. It's like a quick deterrent or it's a bit of like, uh, this is a little bit of a bad status.
No, I'm not going to do this. And I think the hard part though, and I think what exactly what you said is there is great pieces of content. There are amazing teams putting together awesome collateral that can be used and should be distributed. And I think one of the biggest challenges we have, you know, working with clients too, is they come to us and they're like, okay, traditionally we are working in the lead generation model.
We are recognizing that there were inefficiencies there. Like we're still growing. We're mid-market enterprise company. We're still seeing success, but that's inefficiency is starting to take place.
We're starting to recognize that they're eroding a bit more of those traditional strategies of how we measured marketing or changing. But they don't have the tools to think about how to leverage their great content that was once designed to a cost per lead. And I think that's like for everyone listening here is like the million dollar question, you know, like how should we think about gated content and repurposing that? How do we think about distributing across multi-channels?
What are some of the strategies there? So maybe talk me through like a real life example you've had where clients has great content. They just don't know how to distribute it. What's like the one of kind of taking that journey to this demand generation strategy?
Yeah, there's so many ways I can take this answer. You know, number one is everything should have a fantastic foundation. Like it should be 100% cleared up messaging, concise messaging on brand messaging. Like everything should be around.
Because if you have like, you think you have this great piece of content and then you start repurposing it in like recycling it in different ways and like it actually wasn't that great to begin with, that's the problem. Like you're just kind of going to go from garbage to cream or garbage to garbage. My advice to somebody who's like just getting started is like start with a piece that you know is like performs really, really well. You know, perhaps like a podcast episode of yours that you know has gotten the most listens and maybe you know something like that.
And then from there, that's when you can start experimenting. So think about it. It takes a lot of pre-planning. I would probably keep this organized in like a spreadsheet of you know, here's kind of the boxes that we need to check off.
Like we want you, I'm making this up, but create a blog post from it. Create a infographic from it. Create an ebook from it. Like you have this list of things that you want to turn this podcast topic into and that's where you get started.
And it is going to take some pre-planning. It's definitely going to take some collaboration with other teams. Like if you're a small team or maybe you have like a separate creative team that you work with, like get them on board and have them understand why you need what you need and work together on timelines. If there's like, you know, a budget involved with creating video for it or something, make sure that like everybody's on board.
So again, like staying organized and kind of project managing the whole thing. And then also like the most important part is measurement. I know we're probably going to talk about like how to even measure if something like this is working, but measuring the success and keeping everybody in the loop is so important that creative team that just worked so hard. Like let them know that it worked out and like what did we learn from it and what can we recreate and more importantly, what can we stop doing?
We're saying like, was it infographics or just not it? Stop making the infographics. Don't try to make them work. Just stop wasting your time on it.
That is probably the best piece of advice is learn test and learn test. Just keep on your never as your audience evolves, as your brand evolves, as the technology evolves. Like you should never stop learning and never stop testing because even things that always worked will break at some point. So just continue to reiterate over and over again what's working and what's not.
Yeah, I think there's a good piece of advice in there too is finding, start small, don't overthink it, right? So you could have hundreds of pieces of gated content on your website, but my approach has always been if there's fear from leadership to ungate everything, let's just pipe it out. And then you can just do a pilot a small exercise. So in that scenario, let's say you are driving, you have a, you know, a e-book that's actually driving a significant amount of volume because it's relevant to the conversation taking place now, even though it is gated, but it's that is your highest clicked asset on your website or the highest engaged with that right there is a good piece to test and pilot because then you can take that and just be intentional.
Say, okay, with this one piece of content, I'm going to create three things from it, you know, and whether that is like a carousel ad, whether that's going to be a sound clip, somebody's got a reading it, so you have a live video of it. And then the next step would be distributing that on multi-channel. So let's say you don't have a ton of budget behind it. You can create a new landing page where that's ungated asset becomes almost like a long-form blog post.
I think that that and then start pushing the message organically via your channels, you know, if you don't have the budget just for that or ship out a little bit of the budget and explore, right? I think it becomes overwhelming for a lot of folks and I'm not sure where to start. I think it's just like pilot to your point one, pick one of the highest volume resources, set intentions on one or two things you're going to create from it. What was that?
What did you learn? What fucked up? Like how did you like you have to experiment and know where there's breaks in the process before you go to leadership and say we need to ungate everything, we are going to drive so much demand, it doesn't happen that way. And I think you have to fail several times before you can make that progress.
Are there any tools or like people that you really kind of helped challenge you and shape you to think about gated content, redistribution or repurposing gated content? Like anything that you were like, this was kind of an aha where I was able to do a faster scale. You talk about partnerships, you talk about having the resources, but any other like tips or quick tips that would be helpful for most? Yeah, I think just building the partnerships across your teams is going to be the most important thing.
It's not, yes, creative too, but I'm going to go back to that measurement piece again of like having marketing ops on board as well. Like that could be your aha moment of whether you need to be able to measure whether this is actually working or not. And that's one of the hardest things is this is not going to happen overnight. As you said, like you're not going to ungate one thing and like it's going to automatically drive revenue.
It's going to take at least a sales cycle to sales cycles. It depends on like how quickly everything's moving along, but like you're going to want to make sure that your reporting is completely in place and also knowing what to measure. Like again, you're because you're you're opening everything up like you are linked in MQLs that you were driving at one point or they're going to dip right because you're stopping capturing that email address. So you have to think about like what are those leading indicators across any platform that I should be looking for?
And so like things like you know, are your brand, are your brand searches increasing or on the page side, go to Google Analytics, look at time on site, look at direct traffic. That's a huge one. And then like I said, over time, over a couple of sales cycles and what is when you should be able to start seeing this increase in revenue. And again, like it's not going to be attributed to LinkedIn.
It's just going to be this general increase in pipeline in revenue, this decrease in sales cycles because your market is now educated. You put out this message or these messages around why your brand is the number one choice for this, you know, offering and you have now hit them hit the right person with the right message at the right time. Remember that only like 1% of your actual audience is in market for you at one time. So you are trying to get ahead of them when they are ready to make that choice.
So again, it does take time. Like it just naturally is going to take time. But having these KPIs that you can measure along the way, even if it's not an immediate increase in return on Aspen, it's these smaller little details that can help you piece together a story to get leadership on board and agreeing that things are moving in the right direction without alarming them that M2Ls are way, way down. Absolutely.
Yeah. And I think there's inherently trust that's built, right? When you think about content distribution for B2B SAS, we have to be intentional about the message we're putting out into the market. We have to be intentional about how we're identifying which audience to distribute which message.
And I think that that's the biggest lever for B2B SAS is if you can build credibility with your content. And I think that that trust component is there when you have the gates, but it's stripped away when you start ungating this and you're starting to recognize, I just want to sound by that is of value that a person can consume while they're on the bus, while they're walking while they're taking a quick break from work. Sometimes these really long form pieces of content aren't necessarily building the trust with just scratching the surface to your point of that 1% of the buyer that's actively in market, but you've got to educate the other buyers. So how are you educating them building trust?
And having that purposeful content, multi-channel distribution, whether you're establishing pillars for your LinkedIn post schedule, Steph and I are working on that now as we think about 2025 for fine labs, it's like we want to be intentional with our content to build that trust and credibility. And I think it's simple tools that we have access to. We all have most more often than not, we all have access to Google Analytics. So to your point, like defining some leading indicators or step one, it's really going to depend on your sales cycle to determine what that success is in your ACV, right?
There's some levers there that are going to probably more be challenging to manage up expectations or build that trust. But if you establish like, we need to do this, we need to consistently distribute, here's our top five pieces of content for the last six months based on consumption volume, whether it's clicked, gauge, conversation with community, sales conversations, like we're going to intentionally build a content distribution tool. So I want to run for six months and we are going to do it on these three channels, like these specific three channels, we are going to post once a week, twice a week. I think when you create structure around a conversation, it adds that value to your point.
You keep saying that, right? Like set up strategic partnerships, make sure you have the right tools leading indicators. But I think it starts with just the foundation of having the resource, having the content pushing the content live and then measuring that is kind of this whole circle journey of making it successful. I don't know, so it sounds so easy when we say it out loud, right?
But then we know the challenges process. So not really a question there, just kind of add live on what you're saying. I think there's a lot of value to take from that. Yeah, and I think to add on to that, one of the biggest roadblocks that I hear from Teams is my creative team is already strapped for resources.
We don't have time. We don't have time. We're asking you to now create so much more content. So, you know, there are tools out there and think about how you can kind of use AI to maybe cut some corners.
Like for your creative team, I know there's like AI features built into Photoshop and the video editors. And like even if you're a small, low budget team, like using Canva, like Canva has some really cool ways to just automatically resize things for you. So like I know there's pros and cons. I think more so people are embracing AI these days, but I know like in, you know, even a year ago, people kind of be like, oh, like I'm not going to even mess with AI at work and around my brand and what I put out.
But you know, I do think in certain contexts when it comes to just doing simple things, like helping you create more faster. I'm not saying like use AI for the finished product, but just use it as like kind of a little helper for you. I think that's the best way to create the higher volume that today's buyer is requiring because if you're not doing this, you are falling behind your competition. It's just the reality.
Yeah. And there's, there's such a delicate balance to straddle of highly produced content versus low production value, but high information value. And as long as your information is solid and it doesn't look like someone used Microsoft Word Word art or paint to create it unless like that's your vibe. That's your style.
You're sticking with the Myspace era. You know, as long as it doesn't look a mess, it doesn't have to be capital A art, right? You know, your videos can be done on your cell phone, just rough chopped. You can do, as you mentioned, just like basic layouts for your infographics.
It doesn't have to be tapping into your creative resources if you don't have them. Because the shelf life I feel is so much shorter these days. Yeah, right. Like you are, it's not lasting as long as it used to because there's so many messages in your news.
Like you're, you might scroll past something and never see it again. So it is just important that I hate to say, I'm never going to say quantity over quality, but it's quantity keeping up with quality. That's, that's the challenge right now. And purposeful, right?
Be authentic and communicating and fumbling on words and just like it's okay to be real. And I think that that's often the blocker that a lot of companies run into is they try to perfect their messaging and market that feels forced and doesn't feel intentional. So that brand of voice, that tone voice on your content is so valuable to somebody to give a shit about you, right? Somebody to actually care of what you're doing.
And it's just, I don't like that forced messaging and maybe a little bit jaded after spending, you know, 14 years of marketing, but you can just read, right past it. Yes. Yeah. All about building trust.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's take a big old dip away from this positive reinforcement and talk a little bit about some of the bigger challenges that you've faced because it does sound so easy, right? It sounds so simple to just take your highest performing piece of content and ungate it, spread it out.
But what are some of the maybe mistakes that you've made or the biggest challenges that you've had to overcome to convince leadership or to when things aren't working to keep experimenting and keep finding the budget or the resources to push this forward? What's so hard about, I tend to work with larger companies and what's so hard about working with like these older established brands, you know, just larger in size, large sales teams, big leadership team. There's a lot more people to convince, right? And change is way harder to make because you're out to influence a lot of different people and get everybody on board.
And so right now I'm working with a client that is on board with this philosophy of, you know, really opening up to the top of funnel and educating the market and creating demand. Like that's what they need to get to, but they have historically never ever ever done this. They've been so focused on lead gen and they still already still have these sales quotas to meet. So what I've done is kind of create this schedule for the next couple quarters of like, all right, let's take your lead goals and let's reduce them by 10 to 20% each quarter because that's the reality.
Like we're going to keep budget the same, but the lead volumes have to come down because when we've done analyses, these leads were going nowhere anyway. Like the lead to close one rate was so, so low. So there was at the end of the day, like we can't just generate leads just to give sales something to do. I hate to sound like harsh about that, but it is kind of the reality.
So that has been a challenge now. And I've seen that with other brands as well of just convincing leadership that, you know, lead gen isn't it that it's so like we have to take a slow approach to kind of appease all the teams and all the leaders that are involved, but we at least know that we're moving in the right direction. And what's a low point for me, what's really challenging is that our success is going to be so much slower. And we just have to me and my team, we just have to acknowledge that that we're just not going to see that nice, like, Houston pipeline and revenue and shorter sales cycle as quickly as maybe we would have if we just ripped the band-aid.
So it's definitely a lot to navigate when you're working with some larger companies. If you want to hear more about that in that transition, we did a roundtable at the end of 2024 featuring Kerry Evan and Megan Bowen and they talked a lot about that switch from lead to demand gen four larger organizations. So if that's something that you listening are currently struggling with, I would recommend popping back to that episode for some really, really good, detailed tactical tips for approaching leadership on that change. I love that I said so.
Yeah, I think there's one thing that we have to be honest with too, when you want to make this shift, I think about the lowest part of this journey or one of the biggest challenges I had working directly with the client was kind of creating this entire new strategy built around this demand gen ecosystem. Marketing team was like, Ra, we're in it, we're in it, leadership said they were in it, you know, and then there's a little bit of pushback on the sales team, but we were just kind of managed expectations there. We got the strategy built. There wasn't budget.
I think that there's one thing that we have to be very, very honest about this discussion is you need budget in order to make this work. Budget increases velocity to learn. Budget increases reach to specific audience and budget is what you're going to need to move the needle to actually determine if the strategy scales. And so my biggest failure with one of my clients is actually I set this emotion and I wasn't as direct about how much budget we needed at the time.
And it kind of came back and bit me in the ass because we didn't have the budget for it. So here we would set up the strategy got everybody excited, but in order to hit the brand, we want a logo impression on the ICP three to five times every 30 days and that's minimum, right? So we quantify what does that look like? We kind of calculate what is the cost per and do estimates.
So anyway, I just, I'll be remiss if I didn't mention like budget is so valuable for that conversation and managing expectations, like you could have to double your budget to realistically hit X percentage of your audience if that's your intention. Yeah, it's so true. I can't even tell you how many times I've gotten a client on board. They're like, yeah, let's do top of funnel.
Here's a video. Let's go for it. And they're like, here's $5,000. And they're budget for the month is $500,000, but here's $5,000 to spend on one video that I have to split between like Facebook and YouTube.
So it is so important that you are finding the right mix of budget and not just throwing a very little bit because it is important, like you said, to get that logo frequency every 30 days between three and five. Like that's how you know how much budget you need to be spending. And it is a lot cheaper to use a top of funnel optimization than it is to use a lead gen optimization. So you know, it's you're going to be able to stretch your dollar away farther and make a better impression with some really kick ass content that you and your team have put so much into.
That's true. This is a, you know, the conversations always gets me thinking about another setting to do. So that's valuable in itself, right? It's like how we can get deep into measurement.
But if you think about like just your journey to through the different roles and responsibilities and kind of evolving as a marketer, evolving your skillset and now kind of some of the challenges that you're managing in these conversations with executives on how to make that shift, like what is one skill you kind of developed or started to learn and you're really excited about that this entire journey is kind of taught you like what's one thing that you're proud about every day? I'm never sitting still. I do that in my personal life too. I'm never becoming complacent to never stop learning.
Like I said, like the technology will just always continue to evolve and it evolves faster and faster every single day. So when you think like you've got it all figured out, you're like, Oh, I always rely on this bidding strategy and I always rely on this type of content. And that's the beauty that I love about working with an agency is like no strategy works from one company to another. So it has taught me to stay agile and never stop testing and never stop learning.
So such an important message, right? You can get left behind pretty quickly. So awesome. I really appreciate the time today.
I do always want to close out with the question that I think is interesting as we think about AI evolution 2025 is the journey that marketing has been on. What do you see as one of the big shifts coming next for B2B SAS specifically or marketing specifically? Like how do you think listeners maybe should kind of challenge away their thinking about things or prepare for maybe what you anticipate to come in 2025? I think that this is actually a good way to wrap up what my experience has been coming to refine labs in that I had been so trained to please the algorithms and to create content designed for SEO and to use the right thing strategies and use the right keyword match types and things like that.
And what I learned coming to refine labs is that at the end of the day, being authentic, having the best messaging, having a product that sells itself, right? Like the product has really good. That is so much more important than these algorithms. It really is because when you are, for example, bidding on this like low intent keyword and trying to get somebody to download your ebook, it's going to go nowhere.
Like I would rather see you spend less money bidding on a high intent keyword with the demo offer serving it to that person that's actually searching right for you. And the messaging can be simple. It doesn't have to be over the top. But I just think that it comes down to the foundations and the fundamentals more than anything.
It doesn't actually have to be as complicated as we had maybe made it out to be. I think the clip of the episode absolutely love that. Yeah. And I think it's good.
It's good advice too because we do tend to overcomplicate things for ourselves and it doesn't have to be that. And I love hearing it says I think it's a thing we know but are afraid to admit sometimes. Thank you so much, Carrie, for coming on and sharing your journey with us. We are so grateful for your time and insights and we hope everyone listening will run to your computer, find your highest performing piece of content, play around with someone gated versions and kickstart this experiment.
And I hope that you all take some value in the MySpace era and pick your top five LinkedIn connections. That's something that I want to see happen now. If you like hearing these journeys, make sure to subscribe and share this episode out to your network. And if you want to nominate a marketing hero to come on and chat with us, feel free to get in touch.
Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you all next time. Thank you. Bye.