Why Toughness and Kindness Need Each Other | The Curiosity Shop

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant explore what happens when trust, vulnerability, grief, and performance collide. Using insights from the San Antonio Spurs and Gregg Popovich's leadership philosophy, they examine why caring deeply is an act of courage, how shame quietly undermines teams, families, and organizations, and how psychological safety fuels excellence. The conversation moves through ambition and rejection, miscarriage and loss, community, emotional intelligence and empathy, and the ways people show up for one another through life's hardest moments. This episode explores how strength and kindness are not opposites and why building cultures of trust may be one of the most important things we do. Victor Wembanyama on having Spurs legend David Robinson and Tim Duncan in the building - 2026, Yahoo Sports  Armored Versus Daring Leadership, Part 1 of 2 - Brené Brown, 2021, Dare to Lead (Podcast) Victor Wembanyama Emotional After Spurs Advance to the NBA Finals - 2026, Bleacher Report  Goals research summary - Gail Matthews, 2015, Dominican University of California Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012, Gotham Books Ring Theory Helps Us Bring Comfort In - Elena Sandler, 2025, Psychology Today  Atlas of the Heart - Brené Brown, 2021 (Book)  U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy & Adam Grant on Loneliness - Murthy & Grant, Authors@Wharton, 2024, YouTube  ​Andrew Garfield on grief and the loss of his mother – CBS, 2021, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert​ National Survey of Gun Policy - Center for Gun Violence Solutions, 2025, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health  Empathic Joy and the Empathy-Altruism Hypothesis - Batson et al, 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/1992-05357-001 Human empathy through the lens of social neuroscience - Decety & Lamm, 2006, The Scientific World Journal  ​The Making of an American​ – Jacob Riis, 1901, Macmillan  ​The Coach–Athlete Relationship Questionnaire (CART-Q)​ – Sophia Jowett, 2004, Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports  ​Bad Is Stronger Than Good​ – Roy Baumeister, 2001, Review of General Psychology  ​Scarred for the Rest of My Career?​ – Erica Carleton (with Julian Barling), 2016, Journal of Sport and Exercise Psychology  The evolution of shame and its display - Landers & Sznycer, 2022, Evolutionary human sciences  ​Moral Emotions and Moral Behavior​ – June Tangney, 2007, Annual Review of Psychology The Inside Story of the Ever-Changing Brain - Brené Brown and David Eagleman, 2020, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown Podcast Unlocking the Mysteries of our Brain - Chris Anderson with David Eagleman, 2022, The TED Interview Winning coaches’ locker room secret - Blanding on the research of Barry Staw, 2019, UC Berkeley Haas School of Business Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices