Winging it

You're listening to the Wisps wasatch in wasatch investigative studies Wasatch investigative studies a paranormal science show which apparently is yet another acronym for a supernatural hour of what why you doing this to me man? Welcome to the wish show. I'm your host beaker We've got a peaches here. Yes, and as usual castle.

Are these mics even on? Yeah, okay We got some new people and this damn chicken You're the one that posted it on Facebook and you were the one that was just holding it to the microphone That's because you guys made me under threat of a pain of death. We didn't really like you can find the video and you're like oh Here it is. Let me play for you.

Yeah, let me play for you guys. I can't help you guys are like retarded I'm gonna come to find stuff on YouTube. Oh, I found it a good word. Actually, you're right.

I'm sorry for everybody. I found it But not least challenge the ever impressive the master of disaster lurch Deb Deb Deb. So welcome to a messy start the wish show. I am your host castle and we get ready to introduce you guys Now we're getting into the directions.

So we got Tim beaker. We've got lurch and we have brandy who hasn't said word yet Yes, you did. You are playing that stupid song off your phone and blaming it on us. You're the one who made me restart the entire show So we can play that stupid You're the only one by the way.

What's happening? Well tonight is gonna be an interesting show because our show that we had a chicken going never an interesting one I'm here well as you say we had a plans because you had a guest who you had lined up Yeah, he's sick who's gonna call in and he is sick on the bright side though for our listeners. We have tested we have working Skype and so we actually can now Skype some guests indirectly. So we're gonna have some a interesting We're gonna have some put your phone down We're gonna have interesting that time one of our interesting dead air interesting dead air No, because Gary's talking and he stops to look at his phone Daniel Subtinctive subject because Castle wanted us to pick us up right back where we were at So anyway, that was our guest trying to still figure out Skype, which we're not doing tonight So since our guest canceled we're gonna do it.

We do best which is we're gonna wing it by the seat of our pants I've gotta say though hold on to your butts my buddy Mike and Mike. I hope you're listening He has some amazing stories too. He uh, he found out that uh, you know, we do this podcast watch and I've known Mike for probably like 20 years You just played a couple bands together. He's older than you think older than I look 92 Not quite that old what's stuck The brown acid that's on say what's going on when lurch is talking about his day smoking weed what's up?

You grew up with really Nelson. Yeah, but yeah, anyways Mike has some pretty incredible stories and I know him totally legit, but Yeah, we should get a bit on the show. So that's so long as lines if you guys have any like interesting stories that you'd like to share on the show Please send us an email. Yes, we would be happy to have some of you guys on his guests.

Yeah, we'll Skype you in So tell us a little bit about what Michael's gonna talk about. I know we are going to have him as a future guest But share with us just a little bit of if you could some of his stories So uh, he's our page, thank you he uh, he works as a printer during like silk screening printing and he had a couple experiences where uh, he was at the shop late and Things were moving he went to the bathroom and literally came out. I hope we know that things are moving that's kind of thing So we went to the bathroom. No like when you're gonna do that and this dresser That's probably like 200 pounds while he's on the bathroom moved itself in front of the door He thought that is a prank.

He thought that some of his family had shown up and he's like, oh, it's funny Okay, let me walk in then is that what you're saying exactly and and by the time he was able to figure you know, no one else is there He's like freaking out and so that was a like their first printing shop And I think if I remember correctly some of those things followed to the new location as well, but he said entities in their home that have followed them to different locations as well when they've moved across town and then the most noticeable story or most I don't know the the biggest one that he had to tell me was a pretty cool experience in Idaho his Is that where he's at now is an eye? Yeah, he lives in Boise That's where I know him from is I had been hoisted for about 13 14 years and we played in bands together and his mom wanted to go visit a Her high school as she she heard that the the building was gonna be torn down and So they made a little detour they'd gone somewhere else I've got the whole story printed out at home and I've got to bring it But uh, so the long lines where they went to the school start walking around the perimeter and this guy comes up and takes him inside and you know, it kind of takes him on a tour starts talking about strange things that have happened in the building and At one point, there's there's five of them plus this guy, you know, there's the strange guy that looked like a jambner straight out of the 50s They the five of them start to kind of talk to each other and one point Mike turns around the guy would have been standing right behind him He's he's gone and he's like now. That's really weird that this guy would just no leave that saying goodbye And so later they go to a diner gets on eat and they touch some of the locals and the locals are like How did you get into the building that's been locked up for months now? They're about to tear it down?

So I guess what? What makes it so strange is that it almost sounds like it was a ghost that took them on the tour Which I've never heard of any kind of an encounter like that But you know on the other hand Mike is legit. I don't see him making up a story like that Well, what's interesting and I think Yana shared this story before and by the way, she couldn't be here with us tonight She had dropping gas which by the way, if you're dropping gas you suck dropping gas suck She she had to drop some gas off of the pool. No, maybe kind of No, that was me about 10 minutes ago from from the Mexican reframos at the Browns of the Super Bowl Yeah, Tim may have had some sabbat talk about yeah, anyway No, Dan called and said she couldn't make it because she had yes come in But back to your story though about the gender to give the tour and I think Dan is sure the story But when we went to the Zions building they were waiting outside and she mentioned that a Hispanic maid came out of the Zions building and Did some things and and about a year later Dan was really like that story to Tim Conyers who is the caretaker?

That's building and Tim said there is no made if you've been inside building Yeah, but I mean I've never heard of like a full-bodied apparition like that That's actually like had conversations with people and in hindsight, he's like, you know, we never touched yeah Right, he's right. Yeah, but you know, he's like we never touched him. He never you know, and they took him inside Any other story that he sent to me was was really incredible So you have to have a little bit of an element of faith or skepticism or both or I don't know To the whole thing really badly with a guy taking people inside of an abandoned building. Yeah, and just Hacking up to pieces and but yeah I mean it's it's really incredible because I was he sent it to me and I started reading I texted him back And I was like so is that what I think you're implying is like yeah I didn't want to say it, but I kind of think that that was a ghost that we were speaking to and he was telling us stories about this other girl That's been known on the building and I guess she was like a little girl in a red dress or something I've got the actual story.

I don't want to spoil too much of it, but that's a pretty good teacher though I mean, I'm sure it'll be a lot more interesting once we actually sit down with yeah with your buddy and can ask some questions and get In graphic detail and like I said, he's totally legit. He doesn't make stuff like this stuff. I've known for 20 years He's he's a good friend. I've been able to keep in contact with them Excuse me through Facebook over the last few years even though I've lived all over the country and you know, I remember a band practice having nights before We practice and and he would talk about ghost stories and everyone else to kind of share ghost stories And this is long before I ever got interested in the paranormal But I thought stories like that were pretty cool and he said more than a fair fair share of experiences too Well, let me ask you this I said we're just kind of winging us and I'll just go around the table and see up peaches cuz I don't know if we've ever talked about it before but Have we ever mentioned like our first encounters that we've ever experienced with paranormal?

I think I've touched on it, but I'm willing to share Gary's talked about it 18 times per episode probably well What's the come back to me? Let me think okay? We'll start with Castle cuz he talks forever and I'll give you something out Yeah, so what was the first encounter you can ever remember with your paranormal? The first encounter I can remember And to be honest with you, I don't know that I would chalk it up at the time I didn't really chalk up as paranormal in hindsight.

I have but when I grew up I grew up my parents both worked shift work My mom was a nurse my dad was a police officer and so we spent a lot of time at my great aunt's house His favorite color was blue and he had a blanket and like walked on the beach His favorite book just cut to the story, man. We don't need we need this back history. We're giving you time to think of yours So I grew up at my grand house And even from like she started watching this one I was probably like two years old But her house was super creepy and she had a super creepy basement And we've since taken peaches to the house and she confirmed the back I'm all been in that home. You've not been in the home, but you've been outside of the home But there was a portal in this one back room In the closet in this house you would go Not that kind of closet But you go in the basement of this home and you can have everybody in the home in the basement like my great down there would be down there with us It'd be at me, DM And you can hear footsteps walking around upstairs on the ground level floor, but you knew that there's nobody else home And when I say footsteps, I'm not talking to you like did you hear that?

That kind of sound like a footsteps It sounds like there's like a grown-ass man Trumping around upstairs inside this home You know when your kid you're kind of because that it goes to a hoot to go, poho But the longer I spent in the house and I spent many years growing up in that house As one of my parents were working We sat in counter after encounter things like that In that one room in particular that we talked about where there was the closet That that room is always ice ice cold And that closet Pressure No That's how we made it different So the room was ice cold all the time even in the dead of summer that room was freezing cold And the closet would always give you the heebie-jeebies But one day Was it blue like the mountains on the can? Um no But I remember one night I had a dream and I know I have talked about this before but the dream in this room It was bright daylight in this room and there's these geometric shapes Yeah, I know come out of your closet and they were about the size of your fist They're various shapes various colors and the dream is just what's that? They were they were solid shapes But the dream was actually terrifying and I ended up sharing it and Deanna had the dream I ended up years later from my grader and had passed away in my soldier house I had a friend in high school who lived in the house and she had the exact same dream Shapes, brightening shapes geometry. Ah, math.

Um Math is frightening actually. So that was my first paranormal experience. It was our hard Now if you don't talk demonic experiences, that's a whole another story But we'll go back to Tim first before we do that. Well for me I found out in my adult years I had the paranormal around me my entire life Growing up my my father had his sister passed away Of leukemia when she was seven and she's been with him his entire life So obviously when I was growing up, you know living with my parents I had my aunt that was always there, you know with us watching over us So I you know at the time growing up, I didn't really know that she was there But I'm pretty sure like you know, there was times like you know when your kid you'd see or hear things that Shouldn't have been happening or you couldn't quite explain and you know as a kid, I didn't really know what was going on I know I was always fascinated in those books.

Uh the the scary stories to tell the dark And I remember this one story about this perfect guy's activity. Dude, what's brand what did brandy take before this? Did she drop some acid or something? She's been like really fidgety this whole time.

She's like I have not Wiggling in her seat. She's all hopped up on Mountain Dew That's jerry pepsi Which is I don't know like you say that because lurch is all hopped up on sugar I am not that's just me. That's just my personality hopped up on sugar. Go ahead.

Your mom's on sugar I was gonna say I think in my adult life the first experience I can remember with a paranormal is probably about 10 years ago And I had it in my head just not but I forgot what the hell it was Before it Well with my hand. Yeah, that was all growing up. Um I can't remember what it was. Yes.

Okay. Yes, exactly. That's sports authority. Um, thank you when I worked at the battle for sports authority I remember one night.

Um, we were there closing it was just me and two of the girls that I worked with and it was a race Yeah, it was Uh, it was a very it's that building's not very big. It's it's it's really tiny So you can see the entire store basically from the front registers. I was up there basically sending my end-of-day report I had one of the girls I could see was standing right in front of me and I could hear the other one punching her Time on the time clock and on the other side of the building completely the opposite from where everybody else was in the back room They had these old style ladders that that uh slide on the rails and then there was some wooden flooring It went back there that we all three of us heard it's because at this point like the girl from the back room came out And so all three of us were inside of each other, you know And we were the only thing in the building we heard someone what sounded like jumping off of that ladder and landing really hard on the hardwood floor And then go running through the back room. I just looked at the other two and I'm like we're leaving We're clocking out.

We're going right now Nights done. Yeah, and that was that was the first of two experiences I had as much so the other one was I heard You know it was Sunday while we're open I just heard all this stuff crashing off the shelves onto the floor And immediately went back to see what was going on and nothing was wrong everything was just right where it was supposed to be So those are the first kind of experiences I can remember as an adult before I really got into investigating All right lurch you're up Well, I wish I had a cool story to tell like that but uh, I can't think of any single incident growing up or one time in band camp Yeah, that's incident with a flute. We won't talk about a little bit of ky But uh, no, um, I never saw me on the doll where the band What happens to band camp stays a band cap? We don't talk about that.

No, I didn't have any kind of singular experience I've just always been fascinated with stories growing up I remember those are the types of books that I read was you know books about ghosts and bigfoot and ufo and just being fascinated with that kind of stuff and uh I guess uh, you know, I just always loved hearing ghost stories and personal experiences from other people and just really getting the thrill out of it And then a couple years ago, I uh, you know, happened to be flipping through tv and uh, they had I think it's probably ghost adventures on and I thought, you know, this is really cool how they can take scientific based equipment and study and try to gather evidence of the paranormal and uh, I was just fascinated by the concept and then uh, I think a couple years after that, um, you know, I've known dn for for many years, uh, playing in in scotch bag pipe band together and I remember uh, She was telling me about how she was getting this group up and running and I had to talk with her one day and uh, she invited me out to uh, Silent 49 which is uh one of the places uh, out here in Utah out in uh, Tuilla haunted Tuilla hospital and going there within the first, I don't know half hour So hearing an audible evp and that just had me hooked from there But uh, you know, I wish I could say I had some sort of cool, uh, life-changing experience, but uh, never did, you know, I've always felt like I've had a strong, legit upbringing, um, even though I was inactive for a number of years, uh, you know, My grandfather passed away when I was probably about 12 and uh, he taught me how to play a couple different instruments, started with the violin, the out to saxophone, and then uh, When I was in high school, after I graduated from high school, I played the drums and a couple different bands, which is how I know Mike, uh, The guy that we're gonna have on the show tonight and I remember a couple times performing and like feeling almost this close-perched connection, like my grandfather's there watching me And having experiences with other people that I'd known that had passed away, like a buddy Ben That had died rock climbing, having experiences feeling like I feel like he's close by and then even as a female director I want to do like embalming and preparation and uh, why is brandy playing a piano on her thighs? It's just a maniac, man. Just I remember like a lot of times embalming people and feeling like they are here, they're close by and they're watching me and uh, you know, I have to be respectful of what I do. Um, even though I wasn't sure, you know, I know that you've kind of reconfirmed that um, you know, from, that's, yeah, I don't know if I should talk about this, but uh, if you're not feel comfortable, don't do it now, okay?

Yeah, I was gonna ask you though and I hope I'm not interrupting an actual story. No, uh, I was gonna ask you as your time as a funeral director because I know you're kind of going a different direction right now. Yeah, um, but did you have any out and out paranormal experiences while you're a funeral director or things that you couldn't quite explain? You couldn't quite put in their place, so to speak.

I can think of one incident that I know that you've confirmed, uh, Right when you mean he's talking about pictures. It's brandy at Point of the Peaches, um, where there was a younger kid, uh, who was probably in his early to mid 20s and he was in a motorcycle accident where he was making a left hand turn and a truck was coming from the other direction and hit him broadside. And I really felt like I formed a close bond with that family and he was a bit of an artist, uh, enjoyed playing music and was really passionate about his harleys. And he had shoulder length dreadlocks and I know from what brandy's told me there was a Christmas, probably about two or three years ago where he was kind of a guest in our house.

And, uh, I mean, I didn't experience anything personally, but I have some photos that were taken on Christmas morning where we're sitting around the tree and my kids are unwrapping the presents. And you can actually see, um, orbs and she's confirmed that it's him. You can see him in the picture. I can't.

But you know, you've described him with like having shoulder length dreadlocks. And, uh, you know, like I said, I just, I really felt like I connected with that family. I felt like I was able to help them plan a really deep and meaningful service. That was, uh, just a really cool service.

They brought his, one of his harleys into the chapel and he ended up being cremated and, uh, but they, they really put on a really good display and had a really nice, uh, I guess you'd call it like a memorial service. It wasn't really a viewing. He wasn't there. His, his urn was, and I believe it was cremated remains were, but he wasn't actually like in a, in a casket or anything.

But, uh, yeah, I remember that was kind of cool. Um, I just, I, I've had some really cool experiences with families. There was another kid a couple years before that where it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He, uh, he also was probably in his early twenties and, uh, one night after drinking, he put the, the wrong end of a barrel into his mouth and pulled the trigger.

And, uh, his parents, his mom especially had a really hard time. And I ended up, uh, cremating him as well. But I remember her, his mom coming down to the funeral home and she wanted to see him. And I couldn't show him to her because of the condition of his head.

And so I, I literally had to like, you know, wrap his head up and put a towel over it. And, and I had him on a table. And so she was able to see like, you know, the rest of his body and, and recognize that it was him from tattoos and hold his hand, but not actually see his face. And, uh, I still keep in contact with her.

She's still a friend of mine on Facebook and I get text messages from her once in a while, but just, I would say more close bonds with, uh, with families, not so much paranormal. But, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I haven't had, I mean, I, I used to, uh, stay at the funeral home when I would be on call in the evenings. And, you know, there's, there's no more creeks and, you know, pops of a building as it settles at night. But I can just see large, just sleep in any casket.

No, I wasn't sleeping in casket. I was just, I was just, I was just, I would bring DVDs and I would hang out in one of the, uh, the, the rooms where we'd make the arrangements and just sleep on the couch and, and bring, uh, movies and just watch movies until I fall asleep. And I'd bring, uh, my clothes with me so that way I could, uh, change into a suit if I had to go out in the middle of the night and make a removal and wake up in the morning before I went to work and go downstairs and take a shower and get cleaned up and go through the rest of the day. But yeah, I would do that couple times and nothing, uh, nothing really paranormal happened.

You know, if you don't mind me asking for your feel comfortable sharing with us. What do you think was the most difficult thing you ever had to do with us being a funeral director? Babies and young teenage children, uh, because, you know, the elderly, it's like they've lived a full life and, uh, you know, usually the last few years of their lives, it's, it's been in, uh, decline. They've, they've had some sort of affliction, whether it's, you know, mental affliction with, like, Alzheimer's and not knowing who their family was or, or physical ailments, cancer, whatever, their health has been in decline and they've been in noticeable pain.

And so it's, it's almost a relief knowing that they're no longer afflicted with that kind of physical pain and they've lived a full life full of memories. But when you see, uh, small infants that have either died of sids or some sort of, uh, an accident and, uh, you know, being a parent myself of, uh, of three young kids, an eight year old, a six year old and a almost four year old. It's like, I would look at those babies on the table and I think, you know, that could be me, that could be my child and, you know, what is, what is that family going through right now? And that was really difficult is having to do that and then having to, uh, prepare the, the bodies as well.

And then also teenage kids that in a moment of doubt, um, you know, being bullied or whether they like a girl that said no to them when they asked them out, they, they decided to take their own life. And that's just, it's, it's stupid. You look at a life with so much potential and it's cut short in their early years because they're sad, because they're upset about, you know, being picked on at school or because, uh, you know, their girlfriend broke up with them and it's just a waste, you know, there's so much potential that could have been there. Those were the difficult things.

See, and as a, as a police officer, um, I see a lot of that. In fact, I see it before you guys do, I get there sometimes even before their body has ceased functioning, so to speak. And I think for me, that's the hardest is the suicides are the ones that are the toughest, just because there's nothing that bad that we have to go with to check out. So I speak.

My dad used to always say that suicide is a permanent answer to temporary problems. You know, I mean, I've seen kids as young as 12 who have, you know, done that. Exactly. Um, I've seen adults like you.

I've also been on a lot of dead bodies who are elderly. And again, they've had their time in the sun at that point. Their quality of life is diminished significantly. And then it's almost, I don't want to say joyous because never joys to lose loved one, but you, you have the before that because they finally, they're done with this part of the journey and the pain and suffering involved in that.

They've moved on to some place better where they don't have to deal with those kinds of restrictions anymore. Whereas if you're done with the teenager, I had a case. It was a teenage girl who had been raped by a kid and there was a prosecutor who would not proceed with the case for lack of a word, this particular prosecutor's a coward and I filed out called him out on it because after he refused to file on the case, the girl thought nobody believed her and she hung herself. You know, and that's very hard to see someone like that.

You know, she was a young girl. She was 14. She was a pretty girl. She had a whole lot of life potential.

And because of a bad experience and some bad choices by somebody else, she made a very bad permanent choice of her own. That's what, yeah, I'm sorry. I was gonna say and that's kind of hard to see and kind of hard to deal with. That's what most of the teenage suicides that I would see were usually hanging swell, electrical wire or whatever.

And you know, you could see the visible imprint around their neck from the literature. And that's just really tough. Yeah, it seems like I got shot wounds as well. But ultimately, and I know we kind of straighten her normal there.

That's all right. I'm gonna throw it right back into the paranormal and I want to get it from our mediums perspective. What's probably the most difficult thing that you've had to deal with as being a medium? Well, she's thinking about that.

The reason the reason why I kind of felt uncomfortable about answering some of those questions at first was because of my connections with being a funeral director. And but I really doubt that anyone from that field listens to the show at all. You know, what we what we did is kind of close and personal. And yeah, I was even a let go from a job for for for paranormal stuff that may or may not have have gone on in a funeral home.

If that sounds familiar to any of you guys, does that ring a bell? It may have evolved to three of us in the room. I was just a tour dammit. It was just a tour.

That shit happens when we're together. Okay. That's all right. I feel like that was meant to happen.

So that could move on to bigger and better things. There you go. So mine is so when dark entities portray themselves as children to make themselves, I guess, vulnerable or make other people horrible. They lure them in because they're little you know, they appear as little children and then they you know, attack them.

Kind of like Lucy she appears as a small child with a pink dress and long hair but no eyes, which is kind of freaky. But you know, the ones that don't actually look like a little child and lower people than really kind of kicks my ass. I don't think that's right. And then the other is mothers that have killed themselves because of, you know, losing their children before their time.

So they kill themselves or fathers that shoot their children for whatever reason. And you see the children and the father and the afterlife and like, you know, tell them your story. I think even when we went to a house that was a police officer here in the area that had done a murder suicide that killed his two was two kids, two kids two kids, killed his wife and killed and killed his mother-in-law and then took his own life. And that's I remember at that house, you were telling me about this young man that was at my house and there were seven other spirits there as well that had followed me home from from work when I was working as a funeral director.

But yeah, he was very angry from what I recall the the man that had taken his own life after the murder suicide. And real quick, if anybody puts together what family that was because it was a very highly publicized case when the whole thing went down, the new owners of the home invited us into they want to make sure there's no bad do-do in the house. So it wasn't something that we saw out to go get our wuis off of a, you know, investigation. Get your jellies.

Yeah, that wasn't something like, ooh, that'd be fun. It was one of those. Hey, we just bought this house here's the horrible tragedy to happen. Can you help us out?

Can you please help us out and come check out our house and see if there's any problems here and what you can do to solve those problems, which we actually did. It actually had a very good ending. So I remember at one point in the kids' room, they had like a blackboard paint on the wall and behind the door on the blackboard paint, you can see the numbers 9-1-1. Did the kids write those while they were still alive or what after they had passed away?

Well, that was before. That was before. So they wrote 9-1-1 on the wall. Was that like premonition or just because their dad happened to be involved with- I think it was just because it was a police officer or whatever.

I don't think it was- But still, yeah, that is kind of creepy when you think about it. It's like kids writing 9-1-1 and then they get murdered. Yeah, but I feel bad about the rape cases, but I feel the worst when I hear the story of the mother's or fathers killing themselves because of children or killing the entire family because of whatever. So those are the hardest ones.

And like I said, demonic or bad entities prefer themselves as something that they know they can get people to interact with. I feel really fortunate that I can't see demonic stuff like that because that's what really draws me in is going after the dark stuff. It's like, oh, we've got just a friendly ghost here that wants to talk with us and play games. Now I'm not interested.

But we've got, you know, Shadrach the Undying from the 14th level of hell and I'm just like, oh yeah, I'm all about it. Yeah, like the time we're at the residential and they said, oh, there's like a storage room where we figured the type three was in and when I hear they're like, oh, the type three is in the room. I'm like, oh, yeah, don't mind if I know I'm open up the door and there's lurk. There I am.

I only had done the same thing right before I did. Right. Everyone else outside the door, they're like, should we go in? Should we go in?

Should we go in? Should we go in? I kind of push over the side. Excuse me.

I'm gonna go in here. I'm gonna jump into the fire. We know it's interesting that I say that because I think we're all kind of a little bit of the same mentality, which is why our group kind of specializes in these cases. And that's because I want to face, I'm not going to run away from a righteous fight.

I want to help them protect families who are dealing with that kind of crap. But I'm not going to back down from evil stuff like that doesn't scare me. It doesn't scare me. And to me, it's a great big invisible bully.

Yeah. And I'm going to bully her. That's exactly how I feel. That's kind of my take.

Yeah. And I pressure and use word bully because I mean, I don't try and be I don't do something that's gonna make it worse. Yeah. But I know how to get rid of it.

And I'm gonna. Oh, you mean, you don't like, you know, go to someone's house and just kind of piss it off and not solve the problem and then leave for someone else to kind of clean up your mess? No, no, I don't do that at all. That's so dream that you guys don't see what you're pissing off.

I get to see what you guys are pissing off. Well, you know, sometimes we can feel their anger. And we know we've got a little too far like when you get a sulfuric or metallic taste in your mouth. Yeah.

And I'll be honest, I'm gonna rub my butt on JD over here. Oh, there's coffee taste in my mouth. I better show it. In the early days, we probably pushed a little too hard.

And but we quickly figured out that what we were doing was counterproductive. So we would push and push and then we'd be like, okay, let's get rid of it. And we had a hard time because we pushed it so hard that we kind of had gave it more energy, we gave it more energy and kind of diminished our own authority, so to speak. And so we've learned and approached things a little bit differently.

But still, I'm not going to run from righteous fight and I'm not going to let a bully stay in somebody's house. Yeah, which say is true as well. I think that make me leave every time we go on an investigation. I think that you know, thanks everybody for coming to him.

If you could wait out in the car and make sure that we don't have any problems out here, I sit in the driver's seat and burn some sage will be out in like two hours. I think that when you start to bully too much, then you're you're, like I said, you're you're taking away your righteousness and you're kind of sitting at their level. You're no better than they are. Exactly.

And that's what they want. Well, the interesting thing too, and talking with other groups and other teams, and I know there's different religious beliefs out there, and we've touched on religion in this podcast before. But a lot of those spirits, a lot of those. Oh, I'm sorry, Tim.

Are we boring? Nope. There's Tim Yans. But a lot of those types of spirits, they will pretend to be something they are not kind of like, kind of like people said, you know, does anyone have any at or all the way?

Can you slip ready? Oh, my God. Give her a Mickey. Holy shit.

Sorry. She's like all right. I know, right? Well, I'm just like, I'm out and do I'm gonna come at you like a splatter nookie.

She is like, just cannot stop wiggling. I kind of want to get some like nylon strapped and just wrap it up. Wow. Do you need to go run around the street there for a minute?

Yeah, when our kids get hyper, we have them run up and down the stairs. Do you need to run up and down the stairs? No, I just need to take some Z equal. Some Z equal.

Brandi's all hooked up on the gooples. Yeah, seriously. Never give Randy Candy before the recording again. Lesson learned.

Here's some twizzes of the cherry Coke. Have fun. Right. She's literally on the floor laughing right now.

Almost almost on the floor. She's like a cat. I'll get her on the floor. I'll get her on the floor.

Okay, now she's on the floor. I will sit on my hands. And push your heart, Tim, for repositioning. The mics, so she can talk from the floor where she's currently at.

Anyway, as I was saying, a lot of those type three spirits, they'll try and portray themselves as peaches that as something else. And a lot of teams and a lot of families don't realize what they're actually dealing with. They're dealing with sometimes family members, sometimes they think they're dealing with just some, you know, cash for the friendly ghost for a lot of their term. Or they even for less sometimes and make us think that they're a positive energy.

And did we ever talk about that case on the show? We did. Yes. Yeah, and that one for a brief time, we thought it was a normal spirit.

But if you don't offer really positive vibe, it didn't feel like it was negative or demonic in any way. But the interesting thing was it wasn't able to keep it up very long before it. As soon as we started clearing the other type three out of the quickly showed its true colors. Exactly.

And so that's kind of a lot of what we deal with. In fact, we've been called in by other teams before on more than one occasion to come in and kind of deal with some stuff. Clean up their mess. Yeah, well, they're good teams.

They just not necessarily clean up their mess, but just they don't have the same experience or type of situation. No, I'm not just crediting any groups because there's some great teams out there that do a lot of really good stuff. And to be honest with you, I love to go in on those cases and help them. You know, hopefully we have tools that they don't have like the end your mom's got a tool.

Just getting the only love you. No, we have we have very gifted mediums like peaches that can actually see them. And Brandy and Caden and Dean sensitive to right. The end is sensitive.

She can pick up on those things as well. So and I mean, you have the feeling that the guitar was used on stage. I was just playing music. This guitar played music one time.

You have the end and castle that had their first experience with the demonic. I believe when they were 19 20. Yeah, down the seat or sitting. I was probably 16.

I remember I was old enough to drive. So I just I know that it's been you've been around it a lot longer than anybody else. So you're 16. That was like what 40 years ago?

Pretty much. Yeah. I say to be honest with even before that experience, I had already been studying about demonic spirits before. Yeah, you were at the devil's seminary and owning your Ouija board skills.

I'm like last we're taught by Anton LaVey. Yeah, I found the church of Satan. Yeah. Well, and he also followed Alistair Crowley.

Yeah, worship's Cthulhu. There's nothing wrong with that. No, black handles, seances in the bed. How about we shared that story on the podcast as far as.

Yes, but you can you can jack it. You can briefly summarize briefly briefly summarize that's like the next 20 minutes. Oh shit. What did I go?

Yeah, you know, I'll save it for another time. That's really what I hear. No, actually, you know, I want to know. I want to know.

No, we can hear it. But before you get into that, let's give a look to a chance to think about the probably the one demonic incident that stands out the most in your mind or the thing that like maybe has has scheduled the most when dealing with the monics or fascinated the most. That's a good question. Something along the lines like that.

So while he's telling history, they give you a chance to kind of mull that over and think, you know, I do want to say though, I love ghost stories, whether they're fact or fiction or made up. I've always loved hearing ghost stories. So if there's anyone that's listening that wants to share whether it's a personal experience or like I had a roommate whose brother's sister's cousin's best friend heard a guy tell them about something that happened. It's true or not.

But yeah, in the shower in the mirror, there's ghost or no. But I love ghost stories. So I would love to hear. Sure, sure.

I mean, give us a email. I'll let you know what's the podcast or podcast? What is the castle? What's the case?

You know, the easy one just sent a directly to my email. Castle. That's the easiest one. I know we've got several emails that'll get to us, but just castle with or contact at with.org.

Those will get to us. But send us your stories. It might as well love to have you on as a guest and have you tell your story on the show? We've done before with our friend was it David?

Was it David? The family? We did and we've we've had Cleveland. We've had Cleveland.

We've had Paul Wheeler. We've had Paul Welch. We're gonna have Paul Welch on again on our next show that's on our agenda. Whether he knows it or not.

I think he knows now. I've talked to me. He knows. And so but we do want to have some guests on.

We've now we've got the capability. So you're gonna see some more interesting stuff. Chris McKinnell is probably gonna be a guest. I'm hoping he's Ed and Rain Orange grandson.

He now runs their paranormal industry. We should really shoot for John's office and Ben Hanson as well. Ben Hanson. That's Ben Hanson's easy.

We'll get Ben Hanson on. Oh yeah. You've been saying that for like two years. We're gonna be on the show.

Skyport. Now that we've taken the time to get Skype up and working, we actually can get Ben Hanson. Ben is always in Australia. They love his butt down under I guess.

That's where it's at. Yeah. Speaking of down under your bathroom tissue is really soft. So if you need to come poop, nothing but the finest of the castle residents.

To play. You guys. Okay. You guys can afford to play.

I don't care how bad life is. You never buy bad time. Over time. He works on the overtime.

So why don't you quickly run down your your experience? Cedar City with your demonic. You know, I actually can feel left out because this involves her as well. So I was 16 years old and my parents was worked.

Just roll my eyes just buckling in. Wait for the ride. I know. Right.

Once upon a time when I was a wee young whipper snapper. No, I was 16 years old and my sister and her husband at the time not silent Don but. German. Her ex husband yeah.

German phobe. German phobe Don. Her ex husband. She has a thing with guys named Don Don.

Apparently he likes the Don's. And his name is spelled D A W N which is weird for a guy. It wasn't really. No.

Or love it. So I was going to go down and spend a week in Cedar City with my sister and her husband who were down there going to school. And so my parents took me down there and Dan and Lurch and I have kind of spent years doing Scottish band stuff. Lurch is a drummer.

Dan's a back piper. I back piped. I've done drum majoring. And there's a pipe band down there and there was a couple that the band was friends with who were kind of like the band mom and dad.

They were taking back pipe lessons. They were really, really nice people. And when we got down there, my sister said, Hey, me is at these people's house. Instead of at our house.

I want to meet these people. They're really super nice and super cool. And so my parents and I went down to this house and met this family and immediately, you know, we went to thousand and they had nice stuff and they were nice people and were like, Hey, that's all good at dinner. And so I got back in the band with my parents and was going down to the local sizzler.

And my sister was, Dan was headed down to the sizzler. That's where all the rich people eat and see their city is that the sizzler. I didn't say they're rich. I just said that nice stuff.

Honey, put on your best dress. We're going to the sizzler. Put on something by stress kids. We're going to Sears.

Put on your church clothes. We're going to the sizzler. Going to the sizzler family. So on the way to sizzler though, I told my parents I said, there's some about that family I don't like.

I said, there's just something off about them. And my parents are like, Oh, no, they're just from back east and people from back east are weird. Sorry if you're from back east by the way. We don't really think you're weird.

You're weird. Oh, maybe a little bit. Especially those guys from Boston. So I was like, okay, not a problem.

You know, anyway, we went and my parents dropped me off and we went out with this couple on like a hike and the entire time we're on this hike, they were trying to separate me and Dan. Yeah, and they were like trying to like get a lock of your hair and trying to get some blood or something. It was really interesting because it was semen. Yeah, that's it.

It was interesting samples because even during the the site, I could kind of sense that something was not right. And the fact that they kept trans-separators just seemed really hinky. It was a succubus, hinkubus. It was the kind of thing where your instincts just kind of go, this isn't right.

This isn't okay. And so I wouldn't separate from them. Well, a few days later, I was at home in the apartment by myself and Dan and her husband came in and immediately when they came in, everybody heard the tables going to know what I'm talking about, but this really dark heavy feeling came right in with them. I mean, just cold and ugly and come to find out that Dan had gone over to this couple's house that teach back-pipe lessons.

And Dan's husband had been sitting in class and Dan showed up. Her husband got this feeling that he needed to go to their house. So he got up in the classroom over there. Well, Indiana got over there.

And the first name of this couple is Alan and Mary. As Dan got over there, Mary met Dan and drive away and said, hey, Alan is really sick and he needs to talk to you. But he's inside. And so, Dan went inside and about this time, her husband showed up.

And when Dan went inside, Alan was in there and he was speaking in a voice that was not his own, it was gravelly and it was just kind of off. And he mentioned that basically, Dan needed to join him and Mary and basically talked about one of our dead relatives. Well, my great aunt, who I talked about, she passed away and said that, and Krista had given him a message to give to Dan. And it was something that we never told him about and Krista was hidden knowledge that they just didn't know.

We'd never discussed it. And we're just saying some crazy things in a voice that was not his. Comparing notes, Mary Davies was outside in the driveway saying basically the exact same thing to Dan's husband at the time. So they came back to the apartment.

Like I said, that really heavy dark feeling that I've come to associate with him on experience as we've done this for a number of years, came in with them. So something followed them back essentially. And we packed up all our crap and he said, go down to St. George because Dan and her husband decided to go visit the St.

George temple. And so I was 16, so I couldn't really do anything at the temple. So I remember that I got to drive my brother in all this really cool car. But we went down to St.

George and they went into the session down there in the LDS temple. Well, while we were down in St. George, we were like, oh, you know, maybe we just kind of overreacted and things were just kind of weird. And so we came back to the apartment later that night.

And I had at the, I was 16, I had spent like $200, which was my entire paycheck from working part-time at $4 an hour minimum wage and about this $200 dollar dollar jacket, which was really nice. And I really felt bad about leaving any apartment. So I'm like, I gotta get my jacket. So I went back to the apartment and I went by myself to get my jacket.

And as I walked in, it immediately felt like there's somebody behind me the entire time I was in the apartment. As I, you know, walking to get my jacket, I just felt like anytime I turned around, there'd be somebody just standing over my left shoulder. So I got my jacket and by the time I got in there to where my jacket was at in the back of the apartment, I had the heebie-jeevie so bad that it was about all I could do to get out of the apartment. Not as fast as I could do so.

So we went for a drive and again, we kind of got that, oh, maybe everything's okay, everything's good. We came back that evening as we came back. Again, that really heavy, dark feeling was in the apartment. And you could just feel there was somebody in the apartment and it wasn't a level.

Long story short. Damn you. Long story, not quite so long. Eventually we ended up blessing the apartment and that solved everything that the entire atmosphere changed and the level was gone.

It was peaceful again. But that was kind of our first experience. But the interesting thing with that was that this couple had told the end that your brother knows there's something not quite right about it. So they could, they clued in on the fact that I had told my parents and I knew there was something up with them.

And so that was kind of the first experience with something really dark and a little bit like that. Now the interesting thing is that we went to the family tree and I don't know if peaches remembers this or not. But during one of our investigations there, I actually had a little bit of a conversation with Lucy in the basement and actually asked her some questions about that particular incident. And keep in mind that type of spirit does lie.

But basically she told us, and I have every reason not to disbelieve around this, that that particular couple was anti-Black Magic and Witchcraft and basically had their own little coven. I can believe that. And I've gone down to Arizona and we're more or less trying to recruit Jan to be part of that coven. Do you think they're still alive?

You know, given their age back then and how long it's been, if they are still alive, they're very old, they were definitely playing with some very dark things they shouldn't have. That's crazy. So that's kind of my story with that the first time around. And like I said, it's interesting because as we've done this now, I recognize the feelings we had.

I knew it was back then, even though I didn't have any really scary things that run across the room at me, elements to that story. I knew exactly what it was when it happened. And as we've done this over the years, it just kind of confirms what I already knew then because the same feeling, the same MO, the same everything that you guys are all familiar with. So you've probably not done that.

Oh yeah. I don't want to say either first or most memorable. Or that one encounter with the demonic spirit that you're never going to forget. I can actually think of three separate occasions.

The first one that came to mind would be at the Zine Bank building, which I'm sure that you recollect very near and dear to your heart, where we were doing a dual investigation that night between two places, one was called the Off-Broadway Theater and the location of the Design Bank building in downtown Salt Lake. And the Off-Broadway Theater was very, very friendly, I guess, kind of a solo or not a solo, but I'm so distracted by Gary's freaking bottle. I told the long story, any different fluids. Holy crap, dude.

Can you make a little more noise with your water bottle? I was trying to be really quiet with it and I failed this really. Just the sound of the pop, the top clicking open and closed was enough. And then the ice rocking back and forth.

Yeah, that. It's in the effects of a paranormal show. So anyways, the Design Bank building, it's one of those dark locations where we know that there's a really dark demonic entity that's there. And at one point, Castle and I had gone to the other location and left Tim by himself with a bunch of women.

And we got a text. Tim Conyers. Yeah, Tim Conyers was there too. I was going to say with the other women.

Yeah. The two Tims and all the ladies. And at one point, I think it was you that got the text message from from Beaker here saying that it was a phone call. It was a phone call.

And I remember all of us just running over there. And yeah, that was probably one of my first experiences with the demonic. The other one that comes to mind is going to Cleves house who were actually going to try to get on the phone as well tonight on Skype. And we've had Cleves on the show before.

There's a photo that I have where we're in his basement. We'd found this portal in the basement. And our K2s were just going crazy over this portal. Now, keep in mind, this is a cement floor with just carpeting on top.

And so there's no electrical wiring around middle of this room. And what the hell are you doing, Randy? Wait, Tasty starts looking a lot. Holy crap.

She had her nose on the microphone just kind of wobbling her nose back and forth. Edd. But yeah, I had this one. He brought the sugar.

No, she was this way before I would have brought the sugar. She brought her own sugar. Yeah. But there's a photo.

There's a photo where we're all in the basement and our K2s are just going off. I mean, from every level of grain, orange and all the way up to red. And someone would have taken a no is Cleves home security system. He had a closed circuit television.

And there's a photo where I'm looking in one direction and off to my side. Is this entity that you can actually see? And it looks very menacing, very foreboding. You can actually see its mouth open and it's staring at me grimacingly.

You can see horns on its head. You can see dark, demonic eyes. You can see its mouth open with fangs. And it's almost like a skeletal face.

It's looking at me very unpleasantly. But yeah, that was a really cool experience because I can't see stuff like that, but to actually see photo evidence. And by the way, for those who are listening, you can actually go to Wisp.org and look at the pictures. And that picture is there.

Yeah, that's an amazing photo. I show that to people all the time. I'm like, what do you see? And they're like, I see something evil right there.

Like, yeah, could it be safe? Yeah. And then I think the third thing as well. Oh crap.

It was just fleet of my men. See the one that popped up for me that happened to you would be a Fort Douglas. Oh, yeah. Also the attachment that happened that night.

Yeah, because I normally don't get things that follow me around. But I definitely felt it that night. Like there is something that is attaching itself to me and it made me feel very uncomfortable. I was actually scared for the first time.

Yeah, and I could tell that it was following me and I kept thinking, I can't bring this home because if it gets home with me, it's going to attack my kids. And that's what had me most frightened was I can handle being attacked personally by something. I can handle that, but I don't want to affect my family, especially my three young kids. And that's what had me most scared was that I needed to shake this, whatever was following me.

I keep a pocket knife in my back pocket. And that night we were in one of the rooms and Chunga, who's, you know, guest on the show. They had no attention to the brain behind her. She's literally pouring her pepsi into the cap and drinking it out of the cap.

Taking a little mini shots of Pepsi. That sounded up a self-admec, a great episode. Yeah. So Chunga is never in a live on the Meevo.

No kidding. Chunga's, yeah, seriously, that would have been entertaining. Chunga's using the Spirit Box and through the Spirit Box, he asked the question, you know, like, who are you? And you hear the word, I'm a demon, I'm a demon, I'm a demon, I'm a demon over and over and over again.

And I'm just like, it's saying I'm a demon and he's looking at me. He's like, yeah, I mean, I hear it too. And I ask in Latin, are you evil? And in Latin, the response that comes back is high and evil.

And I'm like, okay, now I know that there's something going on here. And at one point, Castle had his recorder set up and I was just kind of joking around. I'm like, I'm going to whisper into his recording and leave him a naughty message, you know, something kind of funny or, or, you know, weird. And as I'm bending over and Brandy was standing to my right as well as I'm bending over the pocket knife in my back pocket gets pulled, pulled out and flies about five feet behind me.

And I turn and look at her and I'm like, was that what I think it was? She's like, uh-huh. So that was another experience I hadn't thought about. But the most memorable one, I think the most frightening one, it's not necessarily the spirits that I'm afraid of.

It's the people going to that To Willa House where that young man was, I don't want to say possessed. He was definitely oppressed in early stage. He was right on the border of the Westside partial possession. Yeah, early stages of possession.

I'm the one of the worst cases I've seen as far as I seriously thought we were all going to die that night. I thought that he was going to get a rifle and murder suicide. I thought that, you know, I have concealed carry permit. I had brought my gun with me that night.

I was, I was ready to use it if I had to because I seriously thought that he was going to get a rifle and he had a rifle, he had two or three rifles in his bedroom. They were all loaded. Yeah, all loaded. Just propped up in the corner.

No cases. Nothing to stop him just like walking over, cocking one back, you know, and starting to fire off from us. I was still convinced that had somebody else been there that that's probably a situation we would have had to deal with. Yeah, I think you're right.

Because I don't think that was an investigation that was meant for us to help. I think it was an investigation. It was a lure. We've had a few cases come up that are, we've been quite obviously lurched to try and get us to go somewhere where they're basically what peaches in danger.

And it's those cases are usually fairly obvious. We usually pick them out pretty quick where basically somebody there means her harm. When they contact and say, can you send Jester medium by yourself? Yeah, I was just thinking about that.

What was that in a Marie? I think it was a Marie and they were basically the lady who was telling me that her boyfriend was actively into Satanism, Blackmagic, Ouija, and the photos that she's sending us were just horrific as far as the paranormal stuff that Brandi could see. And they were like, we just want Jester medium to come by. Just the medium, just send her.

Why? To cause you harm. Why? What did I do?

You know, all kinds of stuff. You can see things that we can't. You know, I'm speaking of freaky paranormal experiences and I want to share this one. I'm just going to warn everybody right now.

I'm going to read this verbatim and there's some language. But I actually had a text conversation. This is probably one of the freaky ones for me. This is the first time I dealt with anything on this level.

But we had a client who was also very much kind of in the same position as a Twilla gentleman. And this client was kind of on the possession slash oppression kind of phase. But she actually started texting me and she's going for more sugar. Stop her.

Quick somebody. But this client was right at that phase and essentially what was tormenting her through her started texting me. And I'm going to read this. Like I said verbatim.

And this is one that kind of made my blood run cold. Now she had no recollection that she said those things did she? No, she did not. So basically out of the blue was I'm working this case.

Like a text that says, you can't help her. You won't help her. I will kill her. And so I respond with her name.

Are you okay? It says she can't talk right now. She's mine. She only does what I tell her to do.

And I said, it's always not yours. Crap, I said her name. You said her name. That's right.

It's just as Zoe. She's not yours. Yeah, I'm not going to worry about it. Zoe's not yours.

You can't win. You won't win. You've already lost. And so I said, Oh, so it says, Haha, you believe that?

That's real fucking funny. I can do whatever I want. Your pathetic God won't stop me. I'm more powerful than you could ever fathom.

And I said, I don't doubt the last, but you're not more powerful than the father. And you know that Zoe has already won through the tone of Christ. And you know that. Like I said, you've already lost.

You lost when you're rebelled. So the response was like you, I'm not stupid. You will never know. And I said, you're bragging about how powerful you are, but you can't provide a simple name.

That's not power. That's weakness. There's no weakness being ignorant to the fact that you knowing my name is a huge disadvantage to me. Let's play game, shall we?

Let's see how far you can push her before she kills herself. Oh, then she's mine to fuck for eternity. She'll carry my allegiance for eternity. So my response was let her go.

No, she won't. You know the plan as well as I do. Response. Fuck you.

And then she responds. She gets on and says, you know, castle, what's going on, what just happened? You know, at that point, I call her, but she doesn't recall any of that conversation. But it's interesting because of context of the conversation, that's not how normal people generally talk about God.

Or I mean, I've got some pretty foul people in my life. And that was clearly not her. That was her personality. That was something that was very maloved.

Just let it happen. Just leave her. She's in her happy place. Wow.

Speaking of lost minutes, I can think of another person that's had a few occasions with that lost minutes. Maybe even right now. We're good though, because no text messages are coming through. There's no creepy mornkel throws.

Anyway, but back to that case for just a minute, that one kind of set my blood cold because I'd never had a conversation like that with anyone or anything. And there's more to that experience that happened over the next couple of days that I'm really not going to share here on the podcast. It was a really profound spiritual experience and some divine intervention and help that I received with that case, which further confirms to me that that was legitimate, just based on what we ended up doing to help her. And like I said, there was literally some divine intervention involved in that to the point that I got exactly what I needed, exactly what I needed it and able to help her to an extent.

And oh my gosh, Peach has got a piece of licorice with goo in the middle of it and she is just like going to town squeeze the crap out of the sea. See, we can fix that real quick and we can ask her from a medium standpoint what is the most terrifying experience that you can remember being a medium like what's the one thing that's sketchy the most? I'd love to hear that. Let's see, there's so many.

Or like the most the one thing that you'll never forget that you can actually be caring or yeah. The one that you kind of took a step back and went maybe I don't want to do this anymore. Well, I would never want to do it. No, no, I can't.