This is the end millet show Welcome back to max out everybody today. I have a great friend to share some time with we're also gonna share some tequila together today throughout the show But this is one of my best friends. This is somebody that I here I would say when I think of man if you look up man in the dictionary I see tim grover. He's a good man.
He's a real man He's got an unbelievable experience It was life his first book relentless is sold nearly a million copies and he's got a new book out winning Which I think is even better and that's saying a lot when all you know top five books of all time I recommend relentless is on that list on Tony. I think this book is even better because it's about flat out to the point About what we all want to do in our life, which is winning and he's an expert on it So Tim Grover welcome back to the show brother. Thank you so much cheers You know what I can end the show right there Thank you, but you know I mean it so that's what's that's what you need about it That's that's why I said I can end the show right there because you don't give accolades out very easily I don't either and I know you know very difficult for both of us to accept Well we have I've talked about today. Here's a great thing There doesn't need to be an intro because people find out you and I are doing this together like they're already sharing the show from like One day to do it everyone on the planet's like sharing this thing So I love this topic But you bet is most of you know if you don't know Tim's been instrumental in a lot of winning in his life with a lot of different people obviously Probably best known for your work with Michael Jordan Kobe Bryant and you start out the book I read the book cover to cover in one setting I said this I read every single word of it which didn't surprise me Which we knew you would Prepare it's preparation preparation.
It's good. I'm learning right I'm learning but beginning of the book guys This is unbelievable story about your last conversation with Kobe Bryant Just your relationship with him because I think a winner I do think of Kobe and MJ 11 championships between them Tell everybody a little bit about their conversation You know Kobe and I we text often he was no longer playing bat He was no longer playing basketball He moved into the business world already won an Oscar wrote a amazing children's book and we text back before we tried to see each other He was busy. I was busy and say how you doing? He'd be I'm good.
How you doing? I'm chasing the next win he's chasing the next win And we were going to get together the off-start game was going to be in Chicago and our plan was he was gonna come in town You know to support and some business stuff and so forth so we had planned to get together And he said he'll text me when I'm in town. I said hey, I'm not going anywhere and Sorry brother. I'm the only guy gets timber over to crime show You're good It never happened Never happened he said something to you at the end of that conversation to write about about winning or I'm gonna keep winning or something like that I'm actually chasing the next one chasing the next one chasing the next one What was it like for you Tim because obviously the emotion on your faces.
This is not Tim. You're not a crier No, what I'm curious what when you heard the news originally well I was within the week before that crazy. I'll tell you that in a minute, but Did you just not believe it or was it just like the breath left your body or so what happened was you know I get I get some information some I shoot me a text I'm like oh fake news It's not true this is not true and then more media becomes in more people than people that were like really close to him like out in the LA area and so forth so hey, just wanna let you know that this is And I was like it can't be it can't be it didn't hit me until like three days later really three days I was just like literally sleeping and I got up in the middle of the night. I was just like It's gone because you just didn't want to believe it You just you just didn't want to believe it you think I see you being such a close confidant of his and I get what you mean Like time happens in life.
You're not texting every single day You're both busy guys, but you don't have to when you're great friends You and I even we text a lot, but even we don't for a month or two. It's like right back personal right never personal life You're busy. Hey your success comes in send your thumbs up everybody You don't have to text anybody when they know that you're actually Excited for every win they get every win that you get right like they they already know you they already know you're there for now When they do something exceptional you like hey, I just saw what you did or something funny But yeah exactly I think some with him like cuz it grips so many people are even basketball fans I think it's when someone lives So full out that when they're no longer living the impact of that passing is greater for some reason I mean he's so alive so to make the transition from winning on the basketball court to winning in the business environment And then he got it you got a chance to see you know when he was no longer that basketball put out close He was with his family. Yeah, you know how he supported how he supported everyone You know his daughter's basketball games and the volleyball games and everything and it was just like he was a much approachable person you know everybody used to see this rigid individual on the court and he was so much He was smiling and he was talking down to players and so forth I always say that his next move his next win was he had two things he wanted to do And I have no proof of this but just knowing his mentality one was he wanted his daughter to be the first female To play in the NBA no kidding not the WNBA the NBA Wow that's what he was getting that's what he was getting her ready for And the second one was like he was like I already own LA from the basketball standpoint I want to race the basketball thing.
I want to own LA Okay, he was that driven the continue to win Yes, which is a theme in the book see I can tell you be proud of him by the way because I know you're There's intermittent. I did not know Cody well, but our daughter's played the same volleyball league So the week before he passed we were in the same gym. I remember you telling the story Yeah, and ends up these double-level tournaments are long as you know, yeah, but anyway long story short There's three dads left. It's almost 10 o'clock at night left in this gym me him and another dude who's a good friend of mine And it was just striking for me.
I watched this black mom a man's music killer, right? But I watched him and I have no idea why it's like really struck me. I'm always evaluating him I talk about it. Yeah, my good dad How's your daughter, you know like we're always evaluating these things and and I watched him other end of the gym I watched him with his daughter and he's carrying the baby in his one arm and just the game was over And he was like kind of just caressing his other daughters back just watching and I remember literally going I don't hug Bella enough Like I don't hug her enough, you know and he was such I mean, he's a man.
He's a flawed man It's a guy I'd be really changed. Yes, that's something to be so proud of anyway long story short because that to me That's winning winning is improvement winning is growing winning is ultimately He's a better man on his last day than he was in the middle of his career Correct and when you said flawed everybody thinks of flawed as a negative We're all flawed right we are all flawed excepted use it learn from it and be like, okay, this is a who I am This is who I am. I'm not trying to be somebody else Which what your flaws are works makes you exceptional. It will make you different That's what allows you to win where other people don't want to win is a people like to say hey, we're flawed We've both wrote best other books and people don't know this about eat They know this about me, but you shared this when we were at our taste syndicate one time You can't spell Those are our flaws and what do we do we just laugh at we write best like I got knocked out in a spelling bee which is in the book and the word they asked me to spell was ham It's so awesome.
I'm crying so you cried on that stuff I cried I just I think about it man like you say something in the book. There's all these lessons. They're all listed like as number one Which I like to he's like hey, there's not 21. There's not 28 There's like there's just an unlimited list of things yes compiled on this book and winning and it made me think of Kobe because you know When he walked out of the gym that day I said this to you too, but he had six days left to live and I just you know What if the world would have we could just have a whisper when you got into that car with this family that I Kobe six days left to live yeah three days later Kobe three more days three more days that's Saturday prior Kobe one day left You know and the one thing I do feel like about people that win is in the book because Kobe was doing this to the very end You talk about the sprint versus marathon thing on winning just talk about it Because I think Kobe that till right in the last moment right at the end You know Kobe had this great line that he used to use all the time He's goes rest at the end not in the middle rest at the end not in the middle so to me Life and winning is a bunch of sprints within a marathon It's a fact yeah a bunch of sprints with within a marathon and you can't see the end line like in a marathon You know where the end line is in winning That win that race may have an end line But there's another start line right after it people that are really driven and this is this is not about money And this is an about fame.
This is about you can be winning as a school teacher You'd be winning as an entrepreneur you'd be winning in business. You'd be winning as an athlete as a waiter Whatever it is a waitress whatever it is. It's that every single time you sprint to that finish line There's another start line that's coming and that's why it never ends It's a marathon that just keeps going going and going and I try to tell people listen I'm not an avid runner. I used to be much younger days not avid.
I used to enjoy it Usually the times of the the best marathon you're running insane insane say they're basically sprinting they're basically they're sprinting Yeah, they are they are sprinting. I think it's one of the things that you say in the book that I think is like super profound I think I'm up You're like think there's some pacing to winning but the truth is there's not really pacing is there the best are full speed knowing It's a long race, but it's there's only really one gear for them. Or am I wrong about no your absolute you're absolutely right But everyone looks at the physical condition Are you mentally prepared to sprint every single day? Are you mentally prepared to sprint every single day and for how long because?
Somebody else is sprinting. You don't want them to get what should be your win ends up being somebody else's win And everyone says hard work now. We'll get you closer to that How many individuals have you known that you've outworked and they got that way? Yeah, right winning has no loyalty to you That's no loyalty to me.
That's no loyalty to anybody. You can outwork somebody you can out study them All right, you can do all these different things. Yeah, you can apply for a job And somebody who's less qualified ends up getting that job. So winning has no loyalty to you.
This is where the book is so I call it like hardcore because that's your style It's like look there's so many things in the book where you talk like that about you know Hey, listen winning doesn't care about you winning winning will lift you up and then slap you back down again Right? There's all of these unbelievable and I think as somebody who wants to win more I've done some winning who wants to win more when you read it if you've had any wins in your life Confirmation of truth when you read something that you know is true It just instantly sits on you as a fact, right? And so here's one of the things you say in the book you say right man all over the book I'm highlighting right stuff down for people. I know for myself.
I read this to Max last night about 1 a.m. He goes down He goes away. I said wake up. I'm reading Grover's book.
It's like bring it back with you tonight, which I'm gonna do but given this one Okay, well give him the thing with you winning requires you to be different and different scares people So if you're worried about what others will say the long-term effects the sacrifices you make the sleep you lose your family being angry I can't help you with that There's nothing quote typical about lifestyle and choices you have to make winning is an inside winning is inside all of us But for most that's where it will stay trapped under a lifetime of fear and worry in doubt the race to speak of the sprint to greatness Has no rules to protect you nothing says you're gonna lose you're gonna get you're gonna get nothing says you're not gonna lose Nothing says you're not gonna get hurt. You're not gonna do all this work for nothing There's no guarantee to be fair most likely will not be fair You'll lose it the buzzer you lose to someone who didn't work as hard as you did You lose on a bad call or a bad place someone else will get the job a pandemic will wipe out your season your bank account your career Yet the prize at the end of that race meet remains so compelling so addictive so gorgeous We keep running and stumbling and sacrificing and competing to catch it. It's exactly what you're talking about right? It's exactly what I'm talking about You just it's I couldn't describe it any other way.
You just look at it's not everybody's a how many times you put it It's not fair. It's not supposed to be fair. It's not it's not supposed to be fair winning is not supposed to be fair Life is not fair. There's nothing that's gonna guarantee you that way It's but the only thing that's gonna guarantee that loss is if you don't get in this race How many people can you talk about this all the time about the fears and emotions and it like you know just getting just going for it?
Just like here it is look at yourself You move three different times in you probably the last six months for whatever reasons you've had all right and You've literally packed up and move like here. I'm going here. I'm going here You got people that won't move themselves out of a chair You've literally moved families lives and there's literally a fear behind every single one of those but there's no doubt right? That's really well said there was no doubt.
That's really everything that you've done and everything that I've done There's always been a little fear and the fear is what allows us to be like you know what I'm gonna throw myself over the Eledge I'm going I'm going to do this but I have no doubt of what the end result is going to be It's so amazing you say I was with a group of guys influencers one of them you were with this morning But four weeks ago kind of went around the table like what moves you and guys like hey my dreams You know my confidence my this and so it got to me and I think probably at that well anyway I'll just say that at that table. I kind of I say I'll be honest with you. I'm still afraid. I'm still afraid you're afraid you got this You got that I said no man.
I'm still afraid and it's a real afraid. It's not something. I'm trying to conjure up It's like a real afraid that I have however I actually think successful people have this really unique nuance of like tons of self-confidence Combined with enough humility to want to keep working and learning. It's a really unique We both know people that are super confident Don't have that dose of humility where they want to work hard and want to be coached right And then you also have the people all the humility in the world But they don't have the confidence and they're not gonna win either right and you have you coach People at all different levels your most successful people are your most coachable a fact what about when you would train Kobe Say something to the book like when you first met him the first workouts or whatever like he didn't want you to make It easy on he had no expectation.
Oh, I mean just like hey listen and the thing that he said was unique about this When we're starting to work out one of the reporters asked him said oh you hired Tim Grover Michael Michael's training goes Well, what do you how do you feel about that Kobe and I'm gonna use a little language here he goes I don't know he ain't done shit for me. He goes. I'm not gonna judge him by what he did last time I want to know what he's done what he's done for me We relish that yeah, you know, do you relish what Jordan told him about you? Oh, yeah, okay?
So the language what Jordan said about you to him. Yeah, so he just said go be asked him What about this? What about he goes he really knows his stuff, but he goes he's the biggest asshole you'll ever meet It's a great compliment right great compliment. It's a great compliment because how many people?
When they when they meet winners, yep full They become yes men yes people yes, exactly and then you have to be the person that holds them accountable and it's funny I just as you said earlier. I call people out. I want people to call me out on my bullshit I call them out on them bullshit. Yeah, you got me before yeah I have I do I do whatever and I do it not out of a place out of hate not jealous or anything like that Listen the one thing that you've offered me that no one's ever offered me Is your is that access to you jet?
All right now if I would have came when I put you in check if that was coming out of hate That offer wouldn't be there you know is coming out of love 100% by the way you also have helped my son Unselfishly and by the way never told me that you were doing it only through him do I find these things out that Tim does That's what I'm at my a real man I think the winners have this thing by the way you should use your type of person will never take me up on it And you should but I have to tell you guys that I think one of the things that the winners have is they lose this expectation That's gonna be easy. They lose the expectation that they're going to be liked They lose the expectation that it's gonna be perfect like once you sort of give it up You actually surrendered the fact this is not going to be easy people aren't going to like me I am going to be judged I am going to be dislike it's not all that bad when it starts happening to you And that's what winning is about in order to win you have those are all the things that are in the unforgiving race So you already know they're there you know they're there and then people are still distracted by it You know everything that you just mentioned is in this race. So if you already know what your opponents are deal with it You also though like there's a level even past that like every time I'm reading the book I'm like okay, oh there's another level another level another level and you articulate it You've been up close and you're including yourself like the biggest winners in sports So like there's layers of this only someone in that type of proximity to it with no two But so many people are governed like what we're really describing right now is they're governed by their emotions Yes, their emotions rule their lives right and you talk in the book about mindset and thoughts being bigger and more important than that So this is so huge when he's about to share with you right now because right now some of you You're driving right now or you're on a treadmill somewhere or you're watching us on YouTube and you're being governed by your emotions It's literally dictating the direction of your life your effort your belief level your confidence all of it But the highest level winners do what your mind has to be stronger than your feelings Your mind has to be stronger than your feelings think about every poor decision you've made in your life cause There was more emotion that was involved in it than there was mine every single one of them think about it really your feelings keep you in bed Your mind tells you get up Think about it every single day your mind is one that tells you get up and your feelings like an extra 30 minutes just Well, don't worry about it. Oh, I can tell you this every bad decision.
I may as well by emotion You said that you and I have both yeah, you and I both Every single one your mind has to be stronger than your feelings. Listen, it's not the popular decision You are gonna hurt you are gonna piss a lot of people off. Yep. All right.
Are you gonna piss them off for the short term? Are you gonna piss them off for the long term? I've had so many individuals athletes that I used to train back in the day And I used to tell them you're not good enough to go to the NBA You would evaluate them and be one of the times you're not good enough to but you can make a ton of money overseas I said what do you want to do? I said overseas you can make I said you can literally you can put have a very long career Be extremely popular over there live a nice lifestyle and be successful for numerous years Go over you don't know what you're talking about.
Okay. I'm telling you 10 years come by they're chasing the NBA dream They don't make it I run into them and I come up to me and says You're the only one that told me you're the only one that told you you think the fact that they deny Is interesting thought like you are candid with me, right? Like I actually look at my dad was candid with me So I maybe it's because I played sports I don't know but like I look at people who are really candid and frank with me is like that's actually real belief in love 100 but don't you think most people that don't win and I'm not calling myself a winner But I think most people that don't win don't view candor and direct feedback that way they view it as hate or criticism or you you're You're rooting against me or don't you agree like I actually have very few people who are candid with me Yeah, and those are some of my most cherished people in my life. Well, here's the thing So when's it right when's the when's the best time for the truth all the time?
It's the best time for the truth all the time the truth should lead to more action But what does it usually do it leads to more emotions Well, that's really true. So when you tell somebody the truth So what's the first thing anybody in a relationship you go in a relationship with business Personal whatever it is the first thing that was asked me honestly honestly is the most important until you're honest So you're honest. Yeah, then the emotions get in and then everything goes. Hey, why then your mind stuff your mind has to be stronger than You're feeling that's awesome.
You you ever work with underscors. I never asked you this even privately So let's take Kobe and Jordan the two physically phenomenally gifted dudes Mixed with all the things that you have in the book about winning like if you want to think like Kobe Ryan and what Tim Grover Do we read the book? You want to think like nj and the things that you learned from mj and then that you took you another letter read the book, right? Did you ever work with a guy?
Don't say who I know you wouldn't but did you ever work with someone as physically gifted as either one of Them that just lacked these things and so as a result we don't know who they are Numerous really as physically gifted even more Wow, even more They were by far not my most physically gifted athletes. I work with athletes that were jump higher than mj who ran faster Who had better footwork than Kobe But Michael Jordan Kobe Ryan were not the two most physically gifted athletes you've worked with Whoa, okay And then so when you would work with these guys and you'd be pushing them and training there was a different resistance or fatigue or how was it different? You know what and how many times if you had people come up to you and says I'll do anything to get where you're at Right all the time or I'll do anything to work for you until you until you tell them what your definition of anything Yes, your definition of anything is different than my definition of anything I'll have an athlete it's very simple when I first start with them when I was training numerous So what time the first work I'd say 330? Okay, 330 a.m.
I wouldn't tell them am or P.M 330 So where's myself myself we're sitting at waiting Because you know winning doesn't sleep doesn't understand why you why you do good. So Now that we come back at we go that they roll in the gym out 330 like what you doing here Like you said 330 No, no You got the wrong time and I said When is a new day start and they look at me goes no, I said no the new day starts at 12 midnight. That's right That's a new day All right, what are you waiting for? And even if you tell him hey mj did this Kobe did this if they don't have it they don't have it They don't have it.
They don't have it. You think it's a lack of obsession like you said You've referenced a couple times like sleep at night your bed doesn't sleep and all that One of the things that I'll be honest is a lot of the book that hit me and if you guys go get the book winning Tim Grover real simple Get it anywhere books are sold But there's this part of the book man like it almost made me cry audibly reading it But I did get water in my eyes and I'm gonna get water even explaining it to you Where you're talking about being asleep and that you get these visitors at night And I know those visitors very very very well I have them too It's attached to my obsessions And I don't think I don't think the average person who wants to really win Understands the extent and degree of obsession required I don't so can you elaborate on that visitors that you get at night? Everybody thinks obsession is a bad word It's not I love to use a people like you're a great example Ed Why why keep going look at the house? Not only this house the other house and the other house and the plane And if people pay very close attention and always just said Probably about 20 minutes though.
What did you say? I don't consider my I don't know if I consider myself a winner That's obsession That's obsession and I love to use your plane story as an example You went from a very nice sized plane to even a bigger plane But it's still not your 747 Right Not your 747 All right, that's an obsession that's a healthy obsession That's what gets you out of bed That's what allows you to when you get out of bed with all the skeletons Line up next to you and telling you you can't do this you're not able to do this You're not able to do this you get up every single morning and you shake their hands and give them a hug and say Yep, we got for me tonight. I got you Because you're a part you're a part of me you're a part of me and people put something funny winners bring all of them Wherever they go And most individuals the best part of them the thing that allows them to win the thing that allows them to be obsessive the thing that allows them Not to care what other people think the things that allow them to deal with hatred the things that keep them going When nothing else will they keep in the closets The best part of them they keep in there because they're worried What are people going to think about me if I let those things out Don't I always say this all right, you know Everyone says I'm afraid To become that person. Yeah, you should be more afraid not to become that person Afraid not to become that person.
You're a big thing about this You know meet uh, I want to at the end of the journey You know, I want to meet my better half or and say hey What did you leave behind or I was like, hey, this is the person shake hands with them If you can't become that person You never gonna be able to shake that person's hand I live in way more fear of not becoming that person than I am about not trying to be him big time But I do have once down this for a minute. I get these visitors at night too that you get so I don't want people to think that winning is all like rosy and glory and beautiful. It's nothing It's really not and I'm not even You have to know this here's a real never said this on show You have to really know These truths so that you can actually decide you still want to win Yes, right because what does come with becoming this way now at 50 and you're 56 or 56 You look great. I've had 50 years of having these visitors in my life and they're not going away at They're not that's why everybody wants to do the people just want to sweep them under the rug You want to keep them in the closet.
They don't want to talk about them That's what makes you successful. That's what makes you that's what makes you special That's what makes you different and what do we say different scares people winners and winning scares people And they don't want to win because of that. They're trying to win They're trying to balance. They're trying to fit in what winners do Very few of them have balance in their life.
Maybe after they become successful They try to balance a little bit more. All right There is no balance early. They don't care what other people thinks they're extremely obsessive. They know it And they don't mind telling you That they're chasing the next win because that's what fuels them But when you people come to you say you've had enough you know why I slow down slow down unwind I don't know about you.
I do know about you. I should say that we are and are most uncomfortable when people tell us to unwind We like to be wound up We like that that's like a part of that's we have our we have our unique ways of unwinding We don't need anybody to tell us to unwind My favorite way of unwinding is having some tequila with a buddy of mine who's another winner and talking about doing more winning I was on Andy's show and I said winning is more fun than fun. It's fun I remember that and I just really believe that like actually what I like like I like the pursuit of winning I like the I like I like that I sincerely don't feel that way about myself Because I'm scared if I did like I'm scared of these visitors that I have are my fears my worries my hopes my thoughts my skeletons Yeah, you know they take all those forms they take all those forms and you don't know what form They're gonna take that night and you know what they're gonna sit at you with the table at all They're not gonna fly I put this in a book when you travel those skeletons are traveling with you on the plane They're my constant companion all the time. Yeah, if you notice Everyone looks at you and you fly on that plane alone.
I've said it's never been on that plane alone It's true. It's true. He's never been on that plane alone with me all the time all the time and you know what when they look at his tequila bottles on the thing And they're finished that's because they're drinking the best off all I was drinking all that stuff. It's not just expensive I just love this because this is the realest conversation I've ever had about really winning And it's the realest book about it like like it's I don't this is one of these polyamines.
It's not all rosy. No, there's a lot of it that sucks and like unless you want to sign up And by the way, I don't know if you're I'm actually cool if you don't like if you actually said hey I don't want all that stuff. I don't want to I mean I don't relate to you I'm not gonna hang out with you. You're not my kind of people But I'd actually admire somebody who says I won't do these things that are in this book And I know I'm not gonna win rather than say I want to win and do none of the things that are in the book people that can admit it They've already won.
The people that said this ain't for me. This ain't for me. This ain't for me They say they know exactly who they are. I'm good.
I'm good If you most people will settle for good most people will settle for okay All right, very few people will settle for great very few people will settle for unstoppable very few people will settle for winning I break things down three different ways. So look at this and I even put this in a book I want to share this with you. You have individuals that compete Everybody competes, you know that you know you play golf you love golf sure you know you go out and you're golfing partner I don't know what's its real name. Your real name is Kelly Gwen We call them Richard Cabello.
Yeah, Gebesa is Had and Spanish. Everyone that's wondering what that's his name because after people don't know that's what Everybody knows about everybody's gonna be signing autographs I love you and my Latin man. Can I get your exact people take pictures with them? So and I'll get into it a little bit later about that.
But there's people that compete Right. There's people everybody knows how to compete at something right and for most people when they compete They want to get to they want to just finish. That's their way. They just want to finish right now to me If you're that level person Is that finish going to lead to another win?
It might not be it might be in something else if you could have run a marathon All right, and you're not one of these top elite marathon. You're not gonna win the marathon Right, you're not gonna win but you have a mindset to say hey, I'm gonna finish this marathon Now is that when you finish that marathon? What else is it setting you up for? But there's people that go in there They're just happy.
They're just happy competing. They're just happy finishing. They're just happy to be in the race Then you have people that win right once it went once Yeah, how many individuals do you know and you probably don't well I shouldn't say this I said you know not associate with it's a big difference That keep telling you about that went over and over again. How long it's better.
Yeah factoid. All right, I got it man You recorded back in high school. Yes. I got it.
You got your master. So I got it. All right, then you have individuals that win at winning That's really good. They win at winning So they went over and over and over again.
You think it's you think it's always cracked up to be no But we don't know any other way best answer of all time Very something everybody that we don't know any other way best answer of all time. We just we can't accept we can't accept it any other way We just can't I wrote a best-selling book. I didn't have to do another book. You wrote a best-selling book right?
You know you have another bad you have another book coming out. Mm-hmm. You know you don't have to do any of this But if you didn't that would be more detrimental to you. You don't know you don't know any of you don't know any other way Yeah, you just you just don't yeah, you think that uh, I'm loving this just so you know because I know people that might listen to you this A little bit dark like welcome to winning like that's why you see so many people I watch Nick Saban After wins these national championships.
He's gotten a little bit better out of the last couple years. Yes This a little bit like 1% better, you know what his wife or some of his family smile for the interview Right we can get back to work tonight, but you watch these prolific winners So I did love to watch mj celebrate that win in the evening that he won right or you know the few times I saw Kobe actually celebrate the win, but I know the next day they're back to work I watch a Saban and like for years When these national championships and you could already see the grimace on his face for the next year in the post game interview Yes, right and like I think people look at it like well then see and I think it's your answer You're right like it's people really will see really enjoying this yes, and he knows no other way So maybe it's not all I wonder if you ask is it all it's cracked up to be I think some people might say no But it's all I know and it's better than the alternative of living with losing the rest of my life or not trying yes, right? There's a reason it's lonely at the top and it's not because You want to be surrounded with other individuals. That's not the part people when they saw but it's not it's lonely at the top It's alone because nobody understands what's going on in here Of what you went after you've just won what you went through and you're already thinking about the next You're already thinking about the next and people can't comprehend that and there's people whispering in your ear and they're saying Enjoy it enjoy by the time they say enjoy it you did enjoy it without you're already thinking Yeah, do you think it's that I'm just thinking right now I'm asking you this because you watched this and you've done it in your own life like you You've you've had two careers you've had a career where you helped which you still do where you help other people win And then there became this point in your life where you became you were individually winning as a speaker as a coach As a writer it's an interesting thing to watch with you.
You were the behind the scenes guy then you weren't the behind the scenes guy Do you think that It's like a dopamine thing like when they win like they're already big I have to get another one like a meet like it's an addiction Do you think winning becomes an addiction? It is an addiction and the only place where you can get that high again is the black market in your mind It's the only place Because you only know where that entrance is you only know where that hit is you only know what that drug you only know what that drug is And here's a crazy part about the next win has to be bigger. It has to be bigger. It has to be bigger It has to constantly keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger so true It sounds like a sickness when you're listening to this but I actually think it's beautiful I actually think you were born to win and you learn over a lifetime how not to as a child Don't do this sit down be a good boy get in your place do this then the world starts treating you And I think you move further and further away from your own nature I think we were born to win.
We were born to do something great with our life I really don't know that's a saying to me and I feel a sadness when I meet somebody who's accepted a life of not winning By the way, I'm cool with it. It's okay. I'm not judging you But as someone who wants to pursue that expression of myself or that I just wonder what I would be like, you know, if I could what it would be like what I would be like if I could get to the next level I'm fascinated with like I think the people that I really like enjoy are curious people Like I want the next experience. I don't want to live in the previous experience like that guy's like, hey, you know I made a million dollars in 2009 and it was like in the mortgage boom or crash or whatever I'm not really interested in living in those in those times.
You're not because it's always about it's always about what's next It's always about constantly staying in the rain. It's a console about changing your mindset The language of winning for people that win is completely different than the language of winning from other individuals No, you sit here and you talk to people and they describe that when I talked to all my athletes I said just why winning in one word to me and everybody would think about you know, they would be like it's happy It's you know, it's euphoric. It's almost things and it is But those constant winners their answers were it's unpolished. It's uncivilized.
It's nasty It's hard It's dirty It's unforgiving and then Kobe comes up and says it's everything It's everything and if you think about it and very few people are genuine about this All right, and you know the ones that are you know the ones that aren't How do you feel when somebody's really close to you and they went? It's unbelievable feeling unbelievable feeling. How do you feel when you went? Unbelievable feeling even though it's short-lived.
How do you feel when your kids went? It's unbelievable. Yeah, all right That feeling is everything it is everything that feeling is everything It's amazing you said that I'm reading the book last night and I call my wife about halfway through the book Because when you read your work, you know, even in the first book most you talk about in this book the most controversial part of the first book was the dark side Yes, you talk about it in this book and then when you're reading this you're like this winning things mean this winning things unforgiving This winning thing doesn't give a shit if you sleep this winning thing doesn't care right like you go through like she's almost and I And if you're not careful guys, you would think because this is truth It flies in the face everything you always hear but you would think that it's not something that you really want And the evidence of it I said to my wife I said the evidence that you know winning is where you belong is how happy you are when you see your children doing it If you have children when your children win a spelling bee or get straight A's or hit a home run or win a golf tournament or do anything exceptional The amount of joy you feel and pride when they win I have a feeling that that's how God feels when he sees one of his children win And I think this is something we all miss that it is a grind it is difficult But if you ever wonder whether you belong winning and that's the path you should pursue Just ask yourself a question about your children if you have them or your parents or anybody that you love and care about when they win How do you feel for that? I literally said this last night So I've heard you speak numerous times and well people don't know about this like when we're on the stage together at the same event I'll stay just to hear you speak like for a says, you know, I will stay The last time I heard you speak was that an event and you were talking about a golf tournament you were with with your son with max Yeah, it was an event and it went from playing golf to winning Yes, that was the decision like to your point like your book and by the way, I've said this really in the interview Little words from people a caring statement a little bit of access to some information And I've said this many times just said it to you But like I thank you because you know, I've had people say well your son gets all your stuff and yeah He also has talked to Grover He's also talked to Grover and just so you guys know I really truly believe that one of the reasons that my son is excelling is you And your information little whispers you get a little direct message a little text message A little access to a call like you've done for my son And I think that's the other thing that people don't know winners are generous Extremely generous Extreme you know why?
Because they're truthful they tell you how it is. It's not it's not rainbows It's not unicorns. It's not sprinkles. This is what it takes.
This is what it takes And other people they'll tell they don't want to we talk about the stuff nobody else wants to talk about Right. Does that make us bad people in many people's eyes? It does But also with a few people that are gonna hold your accountable. We're gonna tell you the truth and we're people gonna say you know what Everybody else She recorded that these individuals told me exactly how this that's what the book winning is about now I don't want people to think that it's all this thing If you read the last chapter of book, yeah It kind of ties everything in and it explains Why winners go through this journey?
Yep Why they go through this journey because I have this thing is like everyone talks about it's the journey It's journey. It's not the destination. Well to me, why the hell are you taking the journey? If you don't want to have a destination, what are you just aimlessly going to be running around?
All right, every time when you get on your plane or you get in your car You know exactly you're going from here now You may have to take a detour to go somewhere else to do whatever you're doing But you're like this is where we're going you had a post a couple of days ago Man, it's nice to own a jet because all of a sudden I got to go wherever your destination was Yeah, yeah By the way, it could be the most enjoyable flight in the world But if I end up at the wrong place complete waste of time and I'm pissed off This notion that it's the journey in that destination is maybe the biggest pile of BS in the history of the world I want to you know the journey enjoyed if you can but the bottom line is you better get to the destination You got to know what the you got to know what the destination Coaching all these guys of the day on haters and we're so obsessed with this crap, right? I'm like, let me tell you guys the truth. It was our our take group. I said here's the deal They are right if you lose so you better win so if you don't win everything they said was true And you're gonna hung up the call That's it that's the whole point of this right if you don't get to the winning destination Most of what they said was true and the reason it bothers you so much is you're afraid you might not get to the destination And they're gonna be right and right and what we talked about said of the fear you're gonna have that fear But there should be no doubt I'm getting to that destination.
It's not a straight line I know it's never going to be a straight line listen This thing drives me absolutely crazy and I just like oh When people put this out there Five steps to this 10 steps How many steps have you taken in your lifetime that unlimited amounts and the new ones are revealed all the time all the time And sometimes you can't even see that there all right and do you always get to walk up those steps? No, sometimes you got to crawl up those steps on your hands and knees It's just and then just when you get to the top you get pushed right you get pushed right back down It's not easy It is not and sometimes Tim when I get to that step like the next ones revealed to me that I had no idea existed Exactly, it's funny you say this because I'm writing my book right now And I'm like I want to put steps in like 21 of these I actually said in the beginning But I don't know that I'm gonna do it that way yet But I literally was saying to our publisher I'm like as long as I'm allowed to say these aren't in exclusivity. Here's 21 particular steps or 19 particular step But there's gonna be 99 million more and a couple more things because like we're flying by dude like I We should have done the three-hour Rogan like we're talking about but by the way the amount of tequila that we'll consume in those three hours We can even more interesting to listen to those two of us But here's something I have a good fortune and so do you that at this stage of our lives were around other winners Yes, so there's huge that what's that? Is a choice we make?
It's a choice we make we have very little tolerance for people that can't get that information when you tell about hey listen about the haters You got to get to the winning that's otherwise they're gonna be right how many times you have to say that over and over and over again You're just like it was really good is you give me permission because sometimes I try to I fancy myself a lover of humans Right and I do I love people and and that's why I do this yet I sometimes find myself thinking that I'm judgmental of people when I do get uncomfortable on something doesn't share that Proclivity to want to grow and win you know I'm saying almost real judging my like man Just like this dude. No, so you'll sit here and I do this all the time when people come up and say you know And they'll say something I'll just look them out say I don't understand I just like they have a thought process. You just sit there and you're just it's not a winning mentality It's just like you'll sit there. You're so you're so perplexed by what that you just like I Don't I don't understand that doesn't happen to me.
Yeah, it's just like this is like really right. Yes Yeah, you're like really and those are the individuals you try like okay? No matter how you sum them up. How you explain to it where they just can't they're the yeah, but person yeah I got that but yeah, but you don't know my situation You don't know this.
Yeah, but yeah, but yeah, but I'm like no there's no but like you got a big old but for a reason You need to get rid of that big but there's no but this is the way it is I don't understand what you're talking about and I it's a different version of me even sometimes for the audience when I'm around you Because like I I just feel like the real is the real right but when you start and you say something so awesome in the book Amongst tons of awesome things But I do have access to people like yourself that are friends of mine now that make me feel normal as you said a lot People really smart that way to relentless and they're gonna respond that way to winning and just pick their brains and associate with them And then your thermostat setting goes up all the stuff I teach but when I started I didn't and you talk about this in here about I felt initially and I think a lot of people are like, you know what? I'm going to choose winning I'm gonna read this book. I'm gonna follow my let's podcast religiously and I'm gonna choose to win When you make that decision you have decided to leave a pack and probably initially feel very alone Yes, right and this is something not talked about and I think a lot of people were so used to be in a pack We're in classrooms. We're in you know, we're on teams in life in classrooms.
We're always in groups. I'm a Democrat I'm a Republican. I'm a this I'm of that it's all tribes and groups But when you decide to win you have separated from most groups and you may not know yet Especially if you're new to it other people as crazy as you right and this you do this thing about reframing loneliness into mental dominance Can you talk about that phrase mental dominance too? So talk about that excellence and winning is lonely success is lonely All right, can you separate just can you separate yourself?
So you could be standing next to another individual and winning says Point at you and doesn't point to you you and you all right are you willing to say hey? Winning has just noticed me and I what did you do for winning to say you know what? I got a little interest in you. I don't have any interest in the rest of the folks I got a little I got a little interest in you because what do we say winning keeps his hands in his pocket because it doesn't want to Point to the wrong person.
It doesn't want to acknowledge the wrong individual. All right, so when I got you says come in Let me talk to you. All right. No, no, I don't want to talk to them.
I just I need you to come alone This is the journey. This is the path. This is what you're gonna have to do This is who you gonna say this is who you're gonna have to separate yourself from all right? Are you interested?
And you can't think about it Are you willing to come through this door knowing you have no idea what's on the other side of the door You have no idea what's on the side of that door and once that door closes, you can't go back Most people be like I'm not willing to I'm not willing to do that, but the winds are so available and people I Don't know when winning got such a I don't even know the word. I'm looking for it It's just like it became like it became a bad thing with where it's sest away And I'll go back to you on this you play in you play golf on a regular basis. All right You compete in tournament things yes, are you just in them? Are you there to win?
I'm there to win? I'm there to win Yeah, I love watching golf interviews with guys like yeah, you know I'm excited I made the top 10 I'm like Tiger Woods would literally throw up if he ever said that audibly out loud in his life, right? Like I'm not I I Even for me and golf, I know this is true for you and your fitness you and I talk about our fitness a lot So listen, I am not Michael Hearn neither are you right? I'm in golf.
I'm not Phil Mickelson But I'm going to this is no pun. I'm going to max out My opportunity at my level to compete and then when I get to that level I'll go to the next level not enough people win where they are right now It's like if you want to be an entrepreneur and you're an employee somewhere right now win as an employee right now Right now Where you are if you're a high school athlete and you're watching this and you've got aspirations to play major league baseball Dominate and win where you are right now And I that builds the habit of winning the addiction of winning the biochemistry of winning in our lives And this idea that you're going to be lonely like accept it like I have just accepted in my life that Especially when I was new that I was going to have to have that and I think a lot of times people think that they can't deal with that isolation Right, and I love so when people follow you on all your social media platforms Instagram and everything else I see the beautiful house. They see the cars. They see that they see everything.
How big is this house? This one's a 7500 7500 square feet. All right. How many people are in this house right now?
There are four of us Which is more than usual? Where's your wife? She's at the other house in the desert. Where's your son?
He is he's at that he's playing the golf room. He's at that house, too Where's your daughter? They're there there. There's three of them there.
Do I need to say anything else? You know in this house Chasing your next win. Yep me and you yeah, I would rather be I can't wait to see them later tonight But right now I would rather be nowhere else on planet earth than talking to you about this topic right now That's a fact. So we're gonna run out of time We're probably already on time probably my editor's gonna kill me for this, but it's just it's too good So I want to talk about two more things One is grit versus glamour so social media world There's a lot of glam out there about winning and even in the sports world now like bodies rookies get these big deals And so you're instantly seeing guys sign for significant cash and I think the the the appearance of it is that it's Glamour It's one thing I've kind of always admired about Brady even though I probably overly talk about Brady is that He messages grit a lot.
He shows grit a lot. It's almost counterculture now the grit piece of it So talk a little bit about grit versus glamour with social media out there now everybody can it's easy to glamour I something you don't even have yep, you'd fake it fake it so much. Yeah, that's a social media is less than that The fake is a new real it really is it really is it really is you can't fake the grit Everybody'll know if you fake the grit you just can't you just can't it's great to you All right grit to me is something inside of you that just Allows you to push forward and allows you to block everything out and continue to say I'm gonna do this. I'm going to I'm going to do this what I like to partly grit with is the grind Everybody always talks about their grinding the grinding the grinding well Here's the thing if you just continue to grind you're gonna end up with dust.
What are you grinding for? What are you trying to form with that grit? What are you trying to form with that grind you take an ice sculpture? All right, it starts It's a square circle whatever it is and they take away the pieces to form whatever it may be Are you grinding and grit and for that to whatever shape that's just going to look to you for you?
Is that what winning looks like to you and it's different for every for each individual your definition of winning may be completely different than Somebody else's definition of winning your grit has to determine what winning means to you and it could be completely different than anybody Anybody else I understand why you do the things you do I get it when Ed does something else like I get it There's no judgment behind it. I totally I totally under I totally understand that's your way But the people that don't understand your way don't understand your grit don't understand your grind are like you know Why why it's not it's not for you to know why it's only for important for you to know why And your why is so different than everybody else grit is tied into all that It's called it's tied into your identity and it connects with your why because your grit may be completely different than somebody else's that somebody else's grit But the glamour is never going to be real unless you go through the grit and the grind. It's just not it's always going to it's always going to be Fake it's really good for me. If it's something that's measurable winnings first.
Yeah, that's it first So if it could be measured it's first if I'm not first I lost and you look at it You know people you take it personal when you put information out there and You don't reach the numbers course You're like and you're like you don't blame this that you like you know what what did I do with 100% What what did I what did I do what can I buy done better all right and then there's There's a healthy ego behind that with both of us because That's confidence to me if you just there's an unhealthy ego on a people that just talk And there's a healthy ego that produces results and every individual needs to have a healthy Confident ego that produces the results that show 100% so when Max Max putts for example I teach this with a lot of my athletes so you know you guys missus a putt and golfers You're like I soccer I can't putter I miss the read I said max what you said earlier about no doubt You should expect to win not the type of expectation that you believe that it's afforded to you or that it's your right But an expectation that that's where you're going and I taught I teach a lot of my athletes this but especially when it comes to golf You miss that putt I want you to say that's not like me that's not me because I make putts right and so for me I'm surprised when I I'm not winning because I expect to win it something so like what happened here Where's most people they're surprised when they do win? Yeah, I don't believe Michael Jordan was shocked ever when he won a championship. Am I right about that 100% Wade Kobe? There's no shock when they got there, but most people like one they act like they've never been there before right when I watch Michael when the first championship everybody that watches like he's another one yeah He's one another one it didn't look like it didn't look like that was it I've never Brady when he won the first time like whoa kind of like this and then you watched him come back the next year You're like these guys are gonna win multiple championships and I'm just curious with you brother almost done But I'm watching you and I'm just I'm proud of you like thank you We're an interesting life Like I know the story if you guys saw my first show with Tim that when you couldn't get through it that story of the cab ride with your dad Just to think of this little boy who's dad's like well We're gonna walk to where we're going but his dad didn't have the money to pay the cab fare to get them to where they were going And you carrying your little bags down the street as a little boy right?
It's just to think that that little guy ends up I mean the last dance was about Michael Jordan But if it was about anybody else to me when I'm watching it's because you're my friend It's like a lot to do with Grover too, man like like you've become this icon in that space You've you've literally arguably worked with the best of all time at something and you came here carrying your bags down the street Then you go let me give you more then you go from doing that Tim to you're like alright alright a book Alright, you can't spell you sell a million copies. I know you very well. You're extremely introverted private man. You're like now I'm gonna speak on stage Large groups and then afterwards I'm gonna meet a bunch of people one-on-one and interact with them socially I know you brother then you dominate at that right and then you become friends with people like myself who we cherish the friendship with you Even when it's from a distance now you got this book out this one's gonna sell three million copies or whatever that's gonna do Are you proud of you?
I'm more proud that you're proud of me I saw myself at the best I'm sitting here with the best Well, I've now got Grover to cry three times so I that's gotta be a Guinness World record. Oh, I am proud of you and And so am I of you every time I see because I know For people look at you and they see he's got everything and I look at you and see what's next I know you do and I I feel that from you and I also From having worked with who you've worked with and who you are you're under no illusion that like I'm like super at peace all the time You know in fact most of the time you're like, okay, what's going on? What's wrong? I saw something there You feeling alright?
What's going on? You know you get it and you need to have people in your life like this guy's who? Will tell you the truth But also don't buy in any of your BS about everything being rosy all the time and you've been a really important person to me Molly regret like seeing you today like I and Sherry who's off camera It's like I just wish I saw them more often, you know and Sherry obviously is credit with helping write this book says right in there Sherry too, so I just first off everybody's get this book. It's very simple.
Okay. This is a topic very rarely discussed truthfully Very simple so there's topics out there where people discuss, you know neuroscience in your brain or you know How to grow yourself confidence these things and there's some good books on it the topic of winning Start reading the book just listen to some of his podcast episodes Oh, yes, I was guests on there Thank you, but this is this is distilled down into something you can carry with you as a companion with truth Senate and people that you and I both know I just want to say this that I've started reading it that I'm texting it's just like that's true. That's true That's true. That's true.
That's true and it's things that you know It's taking you 56 years to acquire and accumulate It's taking me 50 years of my life to acquire it accumulate some of these things and the fact that you are imparting new things on to me Means anybody in their journey to wanting to win that's not quite that's far down that road needs to have this because it's gonna help you and hopefully Today's interview did as well. So cheers brothers. Thank you. Thank you.
We would do magic again. Yes I knew he would and to all of you guys out there listen to me Shh don't get this book and please share this conversation if you have anyone in your life anybody who's interested in winning This is the show you need to be sharing with them right now this episode of this show can absolutely make an impact in their life And he jokes in the book about every shows life changing every shows epic and it's not I believe in every show that I put out That's why I always tell you guys that I believe it can make an impact in your life But some of them are right to the heart of what I know you truly want and I know you truly want to win And I know today can help you do that. So I just want to say to everybody share the show God bless you and max out This is the end my little show