Won't Fix Episode 11: With Independent Researcher & Consultant Ben Edelman

Ben Edelman has spent two decades catching online fraud that hides in plain sight — combining software engineering, law, and economics to prove misconduct empirically rather than take companies at their word. In this conversation we get into the Phia shopping-plugin scandal, how it relates to Honey and Paypal that he covered after Megalag broke the issue on YouTube, the mechanics of affiliate fraud, and his recent investigation into AppLovin's apparent app install deals with mobile carriers.In This Episode:How Ben got into fraud investigation, and what keeps him motivatedPhia's "cookie stuffing": how a browser extension can claim affiliate credit for sales it didn't driveWhether Phia's "December bug" oopsy explanation holds up, and Phia's earlier 2025 privacy “mistake”The Honey/Paypal parallels, typosquatting and the broader toolkit of affiliate-fraud techniquesMegaLag vs. the mainstream media: how independent investigators break stories nowAppLovin's nonconsensual install investigation he wants state AGs to look atWhat meaningful accountability looks like, and his advice to founders building in this spaceLinks & Resources:Ben Edelman's AppLovin investigation: https://www.benedelman.org/applovin-nonconsensual-installs/Ben Edelman's site (full archive of his research): https://www.benedelman.org Ben's list of "Investors supporting spyware": https://www.benedelman.org/spyware/investors/Edge Shopping Stand-Down Violations: https://www.benedelman.org/edge-shopping-standdown/Phia forced clicks and stand-down violations: https://www.benedelman.org/phia-forced-clicks/Honey stand-down violations and concealment: https://www.benedelman.org/honey-detecting-testers/Adware investors page:https://www.benedelman.org/spyware/investors/"Spontaneous Deregulation: How to Compete with Platforms that Ignore the Rules" (HBR article about intentional rule-breaking as a business strategy): https://www.benedelman.org/publications/hbr-spontaneous-deregulation-apr2016.pdfRob Leathern (https://www.linkedin.com/in/leathern/)Chapter Timestamps:00:00 Introduction and Background on Online Fraud Investigation1:36 The Origins: Gator Adware and Early Ad Fraud (2001)3:10 The Dark Chapter of VC-Funded Adware4:54 Transition to Independent Investigation Work6:07 FIA Investigation: Two Types of Violations7:31 Understanding Forced Clicks Through Analogies9:50 Debunking FIA's "Recent Bug" Defense12:50 FIA's Previous Screenshot Controversy14:18 The Current "Dumb Tech Cycle" and Screenshot Overuse16:20 Recurring Patterns: From Gator to Modern Shopping Plugins21:11 Startup vs. Public Company Misconduct Patterns24:40 PayPal's Due Diligence and Ongoing Modifications27:24 Media Resources and Technical Expertise30:17 Typo squatting and Google's Role31:36 The Ad Tech Attention Gap33:34 AppLovin Investigation: Install Helpers and Carrier Partnerships34:21 Wall Street Journal's Surprising Rejection40:28 Carrier Billing and Historical Context44:42 Advice for Founders: The Temptation and Risk of Cheating