Sorry, what were you saying? So I just said it's this hour I'll be stepping coffee every now and then I hope you don't mind that's fine Sipping coffee is acceptable sound effects on podcasts, especially for a podcast. I think 100% You might have to at some point explain the coffee you're drinking and your press and why it's incorrect Because this this is a show about in some ways doing things wrong You know that the idea of the show you chose poorly Is that at some point even with the best of intentions and with the best of four dollars you still mess up sometimes You know you still get the wrong thing or it's wrong for you or it's wrong for society around you You know that kind of thing. I think this is an interesting topic to discuss and Just do a quick introduction.
My name is Sawyer Paul. I've been podcasting for many years on a couple of different subjects My co-host for this show is Mikey Lauren. How you doing Mikey? He's a laundered coffee Unlike my last podcast.
I don't actually have any alcohol on me tonight. Oh, I didn't realize you're doing it I just thought that's how you were I was never drunk But I was drinking often on the show well They had many reasons to drink on that show given the subject matter But and I suspect mostly in subject matter. Yeah, I suspect for this show logically There shouldn't be more reason to drink since more money is involved here I can't promise that I won't won't drink on the show Well, I can I can be the reliable sober one so the listeners can rely on me That's that's important So for those who are unaware of my current geolocation and Mikey's current geolocation and shame on you podcast listeners for not knowing exactly We are at all times. I'm coming from Toronto, Canada and Mikey hails from Manila in the Philippines.
That's right. Yep That's right. So we are actually on 12 hours apart from each other. So for me, it's at 7 14 p.m.
For you at 7 14 a.m That's exactly right and one of the reasons I wanted to do the show with you is that I feel like both of us have a unique perspective on this industry because It's a very it's a very US and some and some in Japan and some Korea like that in China Like it's centered around those countries and really if you're not in those countries, you have a very different experience Sometimes with what's available sometimes with what's popular You know, so that's I'm sure we'll get into that at some point especially with what things cost In the difference of the countries that they're from you know You see a price tag on a keynote on a big presentation and they're like oh my god It's so inexpensive and then you go check your local shop and it's like oh that's seven times as much Exactly and then that that happens everywhere. So I think that's that's something we can definitely go into as well But I my personal history of this is that I I Feel a little cursed I feel like more often than not I choose the wrong thing or the wrong thing chooses me or I've given anything at the wrong time Or you know I just I seem to have some bad luck with with this stuff and the stuff we're talking about is mostly technology products or software hardware Some kind of or games, you know these kinds of consumer electronics for the most part and that's mostly what the show is going to be about And a lot of it will be about sort of my rotten luck with things. So it was gonna be cathartic and helpful Mikey I tasked you before we started recording with picking something from the list that we could talk about this episode So what what's peak your interest? Okay?
You have a list of what is this a hundred devices? No, but what interests me are the ones that I actually that I had do yeah That I actually don't think are were a failure in my part I had no I have no I have no twins of regret or no feeling of being cursed having chosen these devices for myself And yet these are exactly the same devices you have in your list So I will say I had the iPod video at the same time as you you put the year beside these devices This is when you bought them right or this is the year of the purchase time. Yeah, I think that's an important distinction right Yeah, and it says I booked 2006 that this is I'm showing the white I book And for people who know the sort of lineage of the I book 2006 was not the year to buy it right exactly Given what happens the next year? Give me one happens like three months later Okay, the I book 2006 and then you have the iPod first gen and that iPod Dutch first gen.
Yeah, and then you also got the iPod iPod Dutch sixth gen the sixth gen current generation iPod touch that's correct, right? So there's actually a huge long story interweaving all of that like my my Apple history is complicated Since where since we're gonna start with that why don't we talk about the iPod generally? The video you have the video you have the first gen touch you have the shuffle third gen I repeat I repeat the shuffle third gen shuffle that's correct. So we could absolutely talk about the I thought I think that's a fantastic first episode topic Perfect, all right, and you go so yeah, go ahead.
No, so I was gonna ask you tell me about the iPod So for people who don't know and that's that's probably very few of you the iPod was a very very popular device that more or less Kind of saved Apple Apple was this tech company who got really big in the And the 80s kind of plummeted in the 90s and then came out with this thing called the iPod in 2001 And it kind of more or less saved them that you know they had other things as well that that helped out You know they got better computers and the phone was obviously big thing later But like the iPod for the most part that's the thing that people went Oh Apple's a company I should spend money on again and so I kind of stayed out of it for a few years I was very very late to the iPod game And I think that's maybe why I put this as a as a you chose poorly object is that I I didn't get my first iPod until like 2005 And it was the iPod video and the reason that I put on the list originally was that I got the wrong version I got the wrong version I got the wrong version that came out with two iPod videos Not the colors like the I got the black one that looked it doesn't matter what color you pick but But there were two capacities for the iPod video there were 30 gigabytes and 60 gigabytes And I got the 30 gigabyte one and the 30 gigabyte one Maybe it was just mine. Maybe it was the fact that it was it seemed to be a little thinner I don't know but the battery on that thing was like five hours Oh, no, it was it was a bizmo and maybe other people could come forward and say like no the battery life on the iPod video It was just kind of crummy compared to other I was but the battery life on that thing was garbage And this was long before you could buy like a little portable battery, you know, this was like This was before most people had like smartphones like 2005 was this pre-iPhone That's the other reason I feel like it was kind of a mistake was like if I had like way to the year Like I would have had no real reason to have an iPod Like that it's kind of the moonlight time of the iPod, you know, or the twilight of the iPod like it's kind of nearing the end of it there That's right. So I don't know. Did you were you an iPod owner?
Yes, I was and the reason the thing is from here here in the Philippines It took a long time for the iPod to explode in fact the it wasn't in the Apple was not in the mainstream You had to really be an apple nerd you to know about the industry and and the tech world their apple stores were not the way They are now they were they were filled with the same people you'd find in a video game store See it would have a smell. Oh, no, my wife complains about whenever I go by video games He stays outside because it has a smell it smells like teenage boys Or even in the cold But apples are sort of the same thing and they weren't they sold the third-party software illegal bootleg software whenever you buy a Mac Because these are not these are not full stores, right? These are third-party apple resellers. Yes, that's right Apple premium resellers now, but the back then the licenses weren't premium I suppose Apple didn't pay enough attention to us and they could get away with it Mm-hmm and so the iPod was a when I was in college then and not everybody had iPods But the ones who do you knew who they were because of the white earbuds the iconic white earbuds But unlike now where everyone knows every little thing Apple releases no one They just thought of the iPod as the iPod but actually back then at the same time 2005 the iPod photo was out And then it was transitioning that was the weird transition to the video Which which was a big deal since Steve Jobs famously said that it's so silly to put video capabilities into an iPod Yeah, I remember that I remember that video and then he turns around and releases the iPod video And it was such a big deal which in retrospect, which you're right It was it ended up being the toiletiers of the iPod so it ended up not really mattering but at the time the iPod video came out now When the iPod video came out I was already an iPod photo owner Thinking that the iPod photo was the was gonna be the greatest iPod for a long time From black and white to from black and white non photo to suddenly it's in color and there's photo and since Steve Jobs Just said there wasn't gonna be any video I was a very happy iPod photo on the owner and then a few months later here comes the iPod video and That one pissed me off man.
I was a It's the gateway drug right into the Apple thing for many people so as soon as I got my iPod I got my iBook at the same time transitioning to the Mac OS and the OS and then getting used to having a thousand songs This was like five years late right right and then studying Steve Jobs and you know Just buying into his cult of personality and just falling in love with the company the way I did 12 years ago And then here comes the iPod video Which was black and the only other black iPod before that was the U2 iPod which was very expensive here It was like it was $50 more expensive at the states than earlier in your side of the world But over here it was about $200 just more expensive. Well, you had the same sort of like black Tax that like the black Mac look at yes Exactly and you know it was a little more justified because I was laser etched signatures from the YouTube members Which I know you hate right now you hate those guys When they they launched the iPod video they launched their album at the same time and I was freaking out except I was not in the market for a new iPod so so quickly after my first iPod I experienced the The very specific kind of virus or more so you have for Apple products Is this so you're right in you you're a beginner at this and and kind of like so you buy your first products And then not too long after you get your first sense of apple buyers remorse. Mm-hmm. Exactly.
That's perfect That's what any Apple like like evangelist needs right you gotta get it over with quick, right? You need that a solution meant really quickly. Yeah Yeah, yeah to see if you're what is the best how you believe that you are Yes, it is very much like a religion that way is I'm curious when you got this is your iPod is your first Apple product Here on this list you didn't own an older Mac or an OS 9 Mac or any of those sorts of things I never owned an OS 9 Mac. I I definitely had experience with Max They had them at my college and they had them in my they had them in one of the great schools that I was at Yeah, it would be like one of those like education max, you know like there was definitely one of them somewhere But I can't really place it they definitely had them in my University And so I did like some labs on them and stuff like that night my minor sort of interactions with them I knew they existed but I didn't think much of them at all And this would have been 2002 you know around there like that would been when I started going to the university And so that was the beginning of their restaurants and I thought that come out by that and I kind of maybe heard of them But I it was just like they were crazy expensive and like the Canadian dollar was really weak at that time too So they were even more expensive than in the States You know they would you know five five fifty or whatever was like crazy money for for what was definitely considered something that like You could get a much cheaper thing that was like maybe the same For right, you know, and that's it kind of amazing how that's that stuck with Apple Like you can definitely still look at almost any other products.
It's like you can get kind of the same thing for like $500 less in any category It's not this yeah, but it's not the same. That's right. It's not an iPhone. It's not an iPhone Yeah, exactly so So there's that my girlfriend at university though.
She had a max She had like a power max g3 of that I think in one I know it was like a plastic It was before the titanium one to come out. Okay. It was like a bit like plastic handles. Yes Yes, I know good on but and It was cool and she like showed me how to use it's cool And she like I kind of credit her for getting me into Apple You enjoy so that's what I was gonna ask you about so it started with her and then finally after however many years you get your iPod, right?
Yes, I found the buying iPod and the iPod it kind of precedes the I'd already decided to buy a Mac by the time I was buying that iPod it was just a matter of you know saving up money in order to get to it And that's you know that's your student it takes it takes X number of months to afford a computer So that was the difference I bought and I bought the iPod in like I want to say October 2005. It's late 2005 to it's the thing Like it's like it's one of those things where it's like it's a bit of a hindsight regret Yeah, it's at the time It felt like the the the best decision to make in terms of music players like the music player that I previously had had just died I did need something new or at least I wanted something new and so it seemed like the way to go Oh, basically what you said though, I mean it over 2005 You know, I'm I'm glad this is a new show by the way and that we don't have very many listeners because I'm worried about all the fact Checking that's gonna happen if we talk about it being released in 2005 And I'm talking about the iPod photo and then somebody emails us and tell us that we're completely wrong about the years I've got the Wikipedia article up on this guy actually so it was introduced it was introduced October 12th 2005 Oh, then so it was yeah, I kind of bought the new thing. Yeah, I was gonna say so it was new for you And that's the one I envy so Apple remorse for me And then you get your iPod video which was the best one just the just not the high-end model, right? Right, so it sounds to me that the regret is not because of as we'll see later not because of not see not reading the tea leaves Well enough, but simply because of the battery I think partially it was that and maybe I got a bum model Although I did bring it back and they did replace it with a different one that didn't have much of a difference Oh, really?
Yeah, so like I thought I caught I honestly thought I got a lemon and I returned it and they gave me a different one Because it was like six days later, whatever you could still do that back then I don't remember where I bought it is the thing I wish I remembered like whether it was like a best buy or an apple source I don't at all remember where I bought but about the 30-gig model because it was like a hundred and fifty dollars cheaper than the 60-g Model and I was coming from a music player that had maybe four gigs, so I thought I'll be fine with 30 And I think I was for the most part that was never really an issue But yeah, wait if you were fine, so let me just check your the issue was that the battery life sucked, right? That's sort of the main complaint I had about the product. Yeah, and for your audio audio habits audio listening habits You were coming from a mini-disclear or a disc man? What did you say?
Yeah? I had a Sony mini-disclear That's the previous thing I had and I was a battery. I don't know. It was fantastic.
It was like a week. Oh Okay, it was the we can we can get into that on a different episode the Sony You could have a whole Sony episode or focus on I have a lot to say about that. I mean this play but but But that's a matter on it was was phenomenal so that like the first thought I had was this thing is junk because it don't only last like five six hours So transitioning yeah, so how did that change your audio life? You're listening to music life if you had a week long the lasting device is to suddenly five hours to less than a day I mean, that's five hours straight, so that's intermittently throughout the day.
It's gonna die It did and it definitely did die and there were definitely there were because I was an idiot and I kind of I sold my new display to somebody I forget I forget exactly the details of it, but I it was gone so I didn't like have a backup you know It would definitely die so I would have to sort of meter it right I would have to pay really close This was the first device in my life that I had to pay really close attention to the battery. Oh here we go Okay, this is a good thing to talk about so yeah, and then When did the okay, I have two questions. When did their regrets start to come in about? Given that what happens with Apple afterwards, right?
Right? So I mean you wouldn't have known then right? You just suck I feel like I had about a solid year of feeling like I still had the top of the line thing whether I was happy With the product in and of itself I still felt like well at least there isn't anything better and that isn't a weird unique feeling and technology that like even if you're not happy There's a strange satisfaction in knowing that at least there isn't something better over there. Oh, yes That's a thing we'll be talking about for this entire run I think so I think so this strange There must be a German word for it right the strange feeling of satisfaction that even though you're unhappy at least you have the best And and the very real sense of unhappiness when you don't have the best yeah Absolutely, this is that's me.
We will get into that. So I definitely had that with this product and like I Definitely had that for about a year and that year included the four months that I went to South Korea to teach English I did that in the summer of 2006 after I graduated school And I took my iPod video there with me and I was very careful about the battery life there too That thing it really was a comfort to me though having an iPod video with me The iPod video introduced me to podcasts. It was the first thing I listened to a podcast on Yeah, and video podcasts remember those yes, I remember those I remember those very well, especially on the iPod video Remember the iTunes store had a section for like video podcast I think they still do I do think they still do yeah, except not neither of us or no one goes to the iTunes store anymore I don't know podcast, but yeah, they did have a section for video podcast there was a different chart for video podcast and at that time none of them were all of them were short versions of popular shows on TV or The most popular one at least here in the Philippines we had a different chart I think we tried the Hong Kong chart for the time because we didn't exist to Apple yet Yeah, and the top 10 was mostly filled with church sermons Yeah, I was like to this day it is but not for the video anymore, but back then yeah those guys the people we couldn't know It was harder to access for really tech crazy Christians apparently so it's a real thing That's not a small market of people. Yep, that's right Especially now I mean we can talk all about that if you want but then yeah, there's a huge market of people who are tech Tech enthusiasts and this was very early on this is 2005 2006 So yeah the top 10 list of guy Kawasaki, you know him former And he's very popular among Christians and yeah, yeah leadership talks and things like that.
So okay, yeah There was a lot of that podcast for special for me to and it was the iPod iPod thought the first one Yeah, but the first one was what I listen to podcasts on and I remember Having a similar problem to you but never really noticing because I was on a high longer than you were See I was super I was super happy about the device not even because also my disc men Before that I never had a mini displayer I had a disc man before that and a disc man before that they broke very easily and the battery life or what two a batteries and The shockproofness the shock resistance of the device I think the total in the battery so it would it would it wouldn't last very long either and you had to go buy those batteries afterwards So going from that you would think you can just charge every night was a relief until the one time there was a typhoon And it just killed the electricity for everybody in the city and I was telling myself I'm glad I have an iPod and two hours later. It was dead. Oh It was just utterly useless and I had to go pretend to talk to real people and not be stuck in my little white earbud world And then I could start to notice wait a minute This is these are not problems. We used to have in the past.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you were saying that iPod video was the first time you have experienced it This is not a thing that I guess what I want to ask is that doesn't go away is that never went away from me I always notice how this is so silly that this is a problem now even if care about batteries caring about batteries having that anxiety throughout the day of These things dying on you all the way from I mean the the pinnacle of this would be the Apple watch and we can talk about that some other time sure suddenly Your watch is a thing that can die. Yeah is really really it's been talked about so much over the past year But it's true man. It's ridiculous that your watch will die before you get home And having that start with the iPod video for you Did that ever change or was there ever a transition to things getting better for you?
Especially when you got your next iPod the iPod Dutch and then the shuffle and then eventually to where you are now There were definitely times where I didn't notice or didn't care about batteries But I think the iPod video was the was the beginning of that just being part of my life And maybe I just got so used to it that I don't really think about it anymore And that I have I've built up pretty good habits about caring about batteries What you know, I mean I had batteries in my life before the iPod video But for the most part they were double a batteries or triple a batteries and they would die and sometimes I had rechargeable ones I guess and they would die but at no point in time was that I never thought about them, right? There's no like there's no technology like thinking to disposable batteries or even those even like rechargeable disposable batteries Right, it's just like you use them up and they die and then you you pop them out You put no ones in and I think the pop them out and put new ones in mechanism I think that was somehow more like you were sure of that in a way that you weren't sure of this new kind of battery I remember there was a girl at school when I I got my iPod and And I wouldn't shut up about it because I was that annoying guy and I guess I still am welcome to the show I was that a new guy who talked about technology and she told me I hate those I remember I remember her very vividly she said she refused to buy anything that had a lithium battery in it She was like religiously opposed to it To the lithium I didn't think to the manufacturing process She was pretty avoidant of technology in general, but she specifically laid out why she hated these kinds of batteries What was her problem? This is where I'm a little hazy because this is you know we're talking 10 12 years ago now I think it had to do with the environment. I think there was some conflict Going on in places where lithium would get like either mind or work on or poop whatever that has I don't know really how these batteries get But she had issues with it and probably legitimate issues But my issue was that it just didn't last very long Right and for the iPod you couldn't replace it and you couldn't replace it.
It was the first one where it was like no that thing is in there Like I wouldn't even know screws or anything Yeah, it wouldn't be until 2012 that I got a laptop with a battery. I couldn't replace Right, that's how long it took How maybe 2013 I don't know um maybe later than that but uh Yeah, this was the first one it was it was just one thing Right so so yeah, it was one thing and you just had no choice You either had to bring a charger around with you and look for a socket every night and I did Yeah every day every day like every day there would be times in between classes I would hang out in a hallway where there was a plug That's so miserable But it is so miserable for a musical ear that for a musical ear since that's all it was Yeah, but you can see through the ear that doesn't change I mean to this day you can go to a hallway go to a shopping mall go to an airport and you'll see people sitting by the walls Oh, but I decided to stop it for everything they're using Yeah, I see so this is your complaint in 2005 for the iPod It's true and and looking at your list of devices. I'm assuming you replaced it with an iPod touch I did I'm also assuming that you probably had the same problem with this as you did with the first one More or less, although I I think the battery on that was fine actually Like in terms of when the screen was off and it was just playing music because that was the thing with the old iPod The screen was never off right right like the light would turn off But the screen never turned off unless you put the thing to sleep and putting it to sleep is not the same thing as turning it off I would learn Yeah, it's uh apple doesn't like turning things off What's that simpson's line where it's like the um, why is that thing? Why is the light on oh that tells you that it's off Yeah, yeah, yeah, this was and it's the same for everything for this day that still has a light outside Uh, well except no, no, I'm thinking of my map mini which every night It's in my bedroom next to go connected to the tv and every night that thing just glows on my face I love how many how many like of these products you and I have in common because I don't know that many other Mac mini people Really?
Yeah, the ones I hear about are the server people who use it as a server. I don't know any much Oh, I used to I never really used it as a computer It was always just a media hub for me right and now it's been Downgraded is that we're downgraded to the bedroom or upgraded since I use the bedroom or often That's the worst the worst tv Um, but yeah, that thing every night just glows in my face you put it to sleep and then it glows and then oh, yay It's a sleep I don't think they do that. Yeah, no, I'm looking at one mine right now and there is no light outside So how do you know that it's asleep? It's not breathing.
Well, that's the thing when it's closed it's asleep. Um, and when the apple logo is on It's awake while it's closed. So that's when you know you should probably open the thing again and then put the sleep Yeah, so it makes more sense. I think and they just realized it's a waste of engineering to put the light in there Just to tell you it's asleep when the thing is already closed.
Yeah, and I don't think enough people use a laptop as a As a desktop CPU, you know, I don't think there's enough people to do that Um, but back to the iPod though. Sure. I think this is gonna be the show. I think the show is just gonna be the iPod Yeah Uh, and I think it's a good.
Uh, it's a good arc. I'm gonna follow you you go to the iPod video with the iPod touch This isn't that long after this is like two years after. Am I right? This is the first one this came out a month after the first iPhone which changed the world.
Yes, and uh, And this is the one that people probably banked on the people who said that the iPhone the iPhone is amazing But it's too expensive, right? Um, then the iPod touch game comes out the next month or the iPhone comes out. It's too expensive. It doesn't do enough I have my own phone.
I don't need it yet. Then the iPod touch comes out and it's it's the other gateway drug to apple devices So, uh, in history, uh, is that what happens with you or was it just a Uh, I wonder if my player because finally I realized how much this battery sucks Well, that that was one reason definitely so, um, I never know there were no apps on this name, right? It was just it was a stock app. Oh, there were apps on mine though.
Um, okay Because I jamborex, I think I'm there we go So Is this idea city? Yeah, it's it yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, I did the same to you after but anyway, so tell me about that. So the so the the iPhone got announced Was it it was like January 2007 right it actually launched or no no it was early January 2006 Right. That's that's why my my iPod was so immediately off.
I'm absolutely it. Um, that's crazy Right when you think about it like october 12 2005 is when the iPod video gets announced and then Um, iPhone announced better than we just Know this 2007 it's January 2007. Yeah, iPhone was announced January and released in June in June The iPod touch was out in September. That's right and I that point I was being close attention.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Me too. I was definitely paying pretty close attention by then I was I was at the point where I was reading blogs about apple pretty regularly like I was reading there in fireball by then Um And it was I thought it was a huge deal Um, because it came to Canada before the iPhone did Um, the iPhone one like the first one never actually came here. Yeah, that was a thing it never came here either It was a it was a it's a carrier here's then it was the transition from the shift of power from the carriers to apple finally Um, and I remember I want to eventually want to talk to you about my first iPhone Sure, uh, which lasted like a month before the 3g came out. Sure.
Uh, so the iPod touch came out first It was the same thing here you you the transition from mini disc to iPod video Surely it was not the same as the transition from iPod video to iPod touch was it? No two very very different transitions. Um, so the the mini displayer Um, you had to use a certain kind of software to make playlists and and like organize your music and sync it to the device So I had to you know, I had to learn iTunes because I had no reason to use iTunes before the iPod really Um, so I had to learn all of that and so a lot of that knowledge passed over to the iPod touch Um, so that was easy like learning the device was easy. Um, in terms of like Differences like there was a lot of storage.
I got the 16 gig model Um, that's one reason why I feel like this was a poorly chosen device Although I don't know that they had higher grade ones at the time Like I think maybe it just had 16 but 16 was a lot for 2016 was the highest and I think it was I don't know it came out in 8 16 and 32 32 with a thread. Yeah. Yeah, so it was a lot It's not nothing 16 gigs is still you know, what's in my current iPhone? Um, um, Right, okay.
You chose poorly up spoiler you for the next episode. That's a different one. Show us poorly for that one. Sorry Anyway, but when you go from a 30 gig iPod to a 16 gig iPod touch Which which has to use up space for apps and other information and not just your music and podcasts Whatever, um, it becomes it kind of goes from a full fridge to a bar fridge And that's not to say you can't make a bar fridge work.
It's just you have to think about it differently So I took less of my music with me wherever I went than I did with the old iPod Whereas the old iPod I pretty much could I pretty much had my whole collection on me all the time Yeah, um, I I can tell you that I um was this from an iPod video. I had the iPod video also So I eventually had my upgraded from a photo to a video. Yeah, but two years later. This is before the iPhone and the iPod touch So again, uh, it was it was a bad idea for me, but I just love the black one I think it was the most uh, uh, you know how you get sentimental for a device you don't have sure Yeah, when you're trying to say every that's it was added speak with the iPod the black iPod video Mm-hmm.
Um, and so I eventually got it after I graduated and then a few months later iPhone, right? Um, but so when I got the iPod video before I transitioned from the iPod video to the iPhone There was a weird in between iPod where someone gave me you remember the fat iPod nano Yeah, yeah, someone gave that to me and I thought wow, this is this is small. It's flash. It's fast, but it was only eight gig I decided okay, I'm gonna try to make this work I'm gonna give my iPod video to my brother and try to use the nano and uh, having same same as you I only got into iTunes after my first iPod So I tried to manage my sinking uh, my sinking habits and since since I transitioned to an 8 gig habit, uh, a good device I had to I had to really think about what music I wanted in there I tried to do this for about a couple days until I just I said, you know what the heck with it I'm gonna delete oh, this is this is it sounds like a bad idea already before you can say it I'm gonna delete the music I don't really listen to keep about seven gig and then just press sync every night So I don't have to think about it anymore did the iPod nano have the same because there was this button that they added to iTunes When you had a shuffle that I that I never saw with the regular iPod or the iPod touch But the shuffle had this little button inside iTunes that just said every time I sync this randomly refill it No, no, it did not that's just for the shuffle the shuffle exclusive feature one of a couple Well, we'll get that when we talk about the when we talk about the third gen Uh, the third gen shuffle the third gen shuffle.
I still can't believe you got that Well, that's sort of I think that's gonna be the climax of this episode This was after the touch right yeah, it was after the touch. That's right. It was 2009 Yeah, I will place my iPod touch with the iPod shuffle. Okay.
I'm gonna finish the story and then we'll get to that So I go into my iPod nano deleting all of my music putting just the ones that isn't coming there Um not realizing that soon after this I choose the iTunes store would be accessible to the people in the Philippines Um and that it would for some reason at the time it would just be much harder to get music After that before that there was the height of uh of Napster and like whatever Kazah, do you remember Kazah? Oh, yeah, that downloading after music and after iTunes exploded those things it would be much harder to find music on that thing Sure. I was at there was that weird sort of floating point where people were actually pretty happy with paying for music again That's right. So that's what happened to me like an idiot I lost about what 30 gigs of music Um and that I had a really hard time getting back because I did not think in advance that I would be in this for the long haul This iPod nano I was still getting myself thinking okay.
This is it. I'm not gonna keep buying I'm not gonna have a habit of getting new device every so often I'd be very happy with the iPod nano that iPod nano less than about six months as soon after that the iPhone came in Into everything. Yeah, um and all of this music which I used to have which now I would have loved to listen to on my New gorgeous iPhone was gone. No, when you say gone wasn't it on your computer?
This this is a question knowing none of the context of how you do this but wasn't it on your computer waiting to get synced to your iPod? No, that's what I'm saying. I was this I mean it was saying to tell the story Um, so that's what that's what I was fed up with having transitioned to the nano having to choose and manually sync Was it just paying to me that I decided you know what I'm gonna delete from my computer the music? I don't listen to you see okay That all I have to do is automatically sync because automatic sync was to me my favorite thing Everyone was in there.
So what you did was you actually cut your music collection down to fit onto the nano That's what I did right. Yes. I want to flush myself down the toilet now, but yeah, it took me years I guarantee people who are listening to us have done the same thing they have they have trimmed the fat of their content or their media To fit onto a thing they purchased so that they can be happy and not set Yeah, but I mean no one would you wouldn't advise this to anyone? I did my I have done this myself Okay, okay, then I don't feel that bad But it was yeah now in the age of I mean I'm I am the age of backups and everything in the cloud One of the first things I do is make sure I have a local copy of everything I use And just listening to myself now that story I feel like I was cringing already Because it's not like it's not like back in 2006 or whatever Whatever year it was we're talking about you couldn't just go out and buy like a terabyte external hard drive Exactly for no money like you kind of can now.
Yeah, and you had for many many people your computer your main computer was all you had Yeah, no backups. No nothing like that. No cloud. No nothing.
It was so when it was gone It was gone. Yeah, and I had taken it for granted since many of them were illegally downloaded I mean if it means no, judge me We can talk about illegally downloading mp3s on the show neither of us live in America. Okay, we're safe Yeah, no one's gonna rest us and knock on our doors But at the time most of it came from there and then soon after that things cost money again There was a sweet period of everything being free and after that things just were just much harder to get free And it was more convenient to pay for things and it took me I'm not exaggerating years They're even building a music library. They get to a comfortable place where I don't feel that twinge of Yeah, no, I did this too.
I did this with a touch I wanted to I wanted to add that in that when I got when I got when I got rid of the 30 gig iPod video and got the 16 gig iPod touch I did the same thing. I did exactly the same thing. I said, okay I don't want to do this work that it would take to to keep this fresh keep this going and quite frankly I didn't have a computer with a whole lot of space on it either I was a manual sinker with the iPod video because you could back with the old hard drive iPods You could just drag and drop a song over there and delete it off your computer and it would stay on your iPod Yeah, that's right. Right.
You didn't but as soon as you got a solid state iPod, they stopped letting you do that Yeah, or like a flash iPod. I guess they would call it at the time. Yeah, especially And it was worse because if you turned off syncing Um, I mean the alternative would be you turn off syncing and then it'll be much harder to put things back in there You wouldn't be able to use iTunes but given that there were apps you relied on to sync back and forth between your computer Yeah, yeah, I definitely had one of those that would just be like it was this little third party separate thing I think I paid like 12 bucks for it or something. I was just sucker and I like I bought this software Um, which became totally obsolete.
You got a different iPod But I bought this offer and it was really easy to just drag stuff on and off of the iPod Uh, so wait, you didn't you don't actually explain why was the iPod touch about idea? Is it because it's simply because of the storage? There's a few things Um about the iPod touch the first one that makes it kind of a bad device just by itself um So Like some of it like I totally jail broke the crap out of that thing which totally broke some stuff Like I'm not I am not someone who's good at going in and fixing the actual wiring So I should have I should have known better, but I really wanted like I don't even know what I did because twitter wasn't even around but at the point like I wasn't even on twitter in 2007 I don't know what business I was doing. Okay.
You know what it is. I think it was twitter I think it was I got that iPod like around christmas 2007 Like just it had just kind of come out in Canada It came out a few months later than it did in the States and like two months later That's when I started tweeting so I played in this on twitter And you were tweeting on a on on safari right there wasn't there weren't any apps yet were there? I know I I think that's why I jail broke it. I think I think I get out of twitter app.
Yeah, I think so Okay Was this the twitterific app or was it was I think it was too horrific? Um, so how did that break your iPod? So when I say I jail broke it like first day like obviously obviously I'm exaggerating a little bit there But like when I think I I started twitter in like February 2008 so it would have been I would have jail broke it like a month after I got it Okay, um, and yeah, that's that's entirely now. I remember that's entirely why I jail broke it because it's they the internet said if you jail break You're your iPhone or your iPod touch you can get apps the internet.
Yeah, yeah, which was true You could get apps, but it was this was the first year so jailbreaking was not reliable at all or not able No, it was super unstable. I think for all the time So it would crash all the time just all the time it would crash Right the battery did last a long time and the various iPod mechanics of the thing worked great, um But uh, it didn't have a volume switch No, the iPod touch the first generation iPod touch and this is why I think it's a failure product Just that just that it didn't have volume on the device You had to turn on the screen and and like slide the volume thing on the screen And that sounds like such first world fancy spoiled rich kid nonsense to say oh, I'm bothered by the fact that there isn't this button on the thing But it was like it sucked Not having not having volume I'm looking at it right now. You're right. This is I for completely forgot that this is how it looked I was assuming it was the one after this this had the black plastic corner, right?
Yeah, uh for the Wi-Fi antenna. Exactly It's not so dumb. Yeah, that's so dumb. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
You know for that alone We could have skipped this whole discussion. Just told me that and you I didn't want I just didn't want to be glib about it because it sounds like such a shitty thing to complain about because to be honest the iPod Didn't have a volumes rocker you changed but I had a wheel you changed the volume of the wheel And you could totally do that without looking at the iPod. That's right Turn off the whole switch and then just spin that thing away Yeah, if you wanted to change the volume or change the track you had to turn on the screen And there was no okay, so for the i-but Dutch there were no there's no control under nothing So for you to actually do that you had to be uh, oh no, no, sorry on the home screen there was a volume There was there was a volume thing in a track on the lock screen. Yes.
Oh, there's a double tap the The home button or easy right and that would bring it up um The other thing was the iPhone got these fancy headphones like these fancy earbuds With voice and track changing and all that on it and the iPod touch got none of that There's just the old iPod earbuds. Just the old iPod earbuds Yeah, that's the cool wild for me. You're right Um, which here's the thing and I know this for a fact because I bought one you go buy the iPod touch today You know what headphones you get just old crappy white headphones. No way You get the redesigned ones that are plastic and they have like yeah, they earpods, but there's no volume on it Yeah, oh, that's miserable.
Yeah worthless. That's miserable. Yeah, but it has the volume rocker, right? No It's just it's just headphones No, I mean even but the iPod touch itself than you want anyone doesn't volume marker Yeah, yeah, no, they fixed that and they made a point in the next keynote where they announced the next iPod touch They were like, yeah, yeah, we put a volume rock around it.
Don't worry Yeah, that was the season that was a Steve job season. So that was the last stretch of Steve jobs Uh, and it was okay. So this is the perfect transition, I suppose So that was that announcement of the iPod Dutch or the second gen iPod Dutch Was that the same announcement where they launched the new iPod shuffle without the buttons? No, they never actually announced the iPod shuffle without the buttons.
They just started selling it one day Wait, wait, there was no no announcement for the third gen I remember this they just like put it up on the website one day It was like early 2009 something like that and they were just like oh new ipods Oh, then i'm thinking about the keynote where he announced the one after that. Yeah, which was also it was probably so way we fixed it Yeah, wait a minute. So you had your iPod Dutch whose entire problem was that it didn't have volume buttons Yeah, right so you go into the apple website. I know exactly where you're going with this I'm sure everyone does but we have to do it.
We have to go through it So You have iPod Dutch and no buttons you're thinking this device stops. It has no buttons, but it has a screen Yeah, I want to replace it now. Yeah, what do I get? Why do I go out and buy the one consumer electronic product in the history of time that has no buttons on it whatsoever No buttons and no screen nothing.
Yeah, I mean the iPod touch had a screen that pretended that it was it had buttons on it At least the software buttons. Yeah, yeah This thing were you so deprived of having earphones without buttons that you thought a device without buttons but earphones with buttons would be better What was the thought process behind this? So I've had the iPod touch for two years at this point Or a year and a half or 18 months around there whatever it was long enough and ios 3 had come out And I think that was the first one where they called it iOS. It was just no no iOS was ios 4 I was 4 that's right.
It's a phone OS or whatever it was and that had come out and you could put it on your first gen iPod Which I thought was kind of amazing because They had come out with like a software update for the iPod video like when they replaced the iPod video with like the iPod classic They completely redid like the user interface and everything and the iPod video got none of that There was no super update at all. Even though they totally could have right It was it was like a spiked motion to not update the old iPods So the the fact that they were updating older iOS devices with new software was amazing to me I thought it was great and it was totally worse like on jailbreaking me I thought touch to get iOS 3 because that's the one that I copy and paste It made it way more like you could do so much more with it Like like it really was a big release to be able to copy and they had a couple new apps And it was it was a big one like that ios 3 was a big release And it made the iPod basically unusable It was this is something that has been a part of the iPhone lineage forever And it's like an old like oh i've been through this war story that other people tell you about It's a bad idea to put the newest operating system on something that's two years older older Right right right. Yeah, it took a while for people to realize this And this was the first time it happened because this was the first time there was two years of difference But iOS 3 on the original iPod kind of turns it into a dog And there was no way to go back a dog with copy paste a dog with dog on the left It was so slow It was easily the slowest thing i'd ever used like my My mini-disc player was zippy compared to it So okay, so This is not helping you're telling me that okay, so now my butt touches low now my foot is slow That's right action then okay now. I hate this thing so much.
I want to think with no screens and buttons Yeah, I mean is that is that the reaction? I understand why this seems like a difficult purchase to make I understand What are you doing now? You're saying this now right with some sense of uh quantization over your older self Oh for my own exactly this is me going hey, of course. I know I was stupid then but at the time I'll try to I'll try to explain what I felt at the time.
I was going through in 2009 what I When I realized now was like total internet edition Okay, this was and it was a problem It was like I was never not on the internet in 2009 And like it was starting to hurt work like it was it was hurting my ability to like make friends It was it was bad. This was maybe the darkest time for it and it's something I still wrestle with It's something I still worry about um It is something that I feel like I've gotten a lot better at because I've put certain things In the way the key me from like losing myself Online forever. This is a this is a bit uh weird to hear for me because 2009 is when I met you Yeah, and yeah, and it's when we got rolling doing all the stuff we do now. It's true.
It's true and that a lot of that was Unfortunately, a lot of that was symptomatic for me You know a lot of that was well. Hey, I'm doing the stuff online. That's way more exciting what I'm doing in real life You know, um like and that's the year I really got back into pro wrestling Right, right like that's the year I was writing the fake vids blog and I was writing that thing like a lot Yes, exactly. Um like I treated that like a full-time job Uh, so it was a problem and this is a hard thing for me to admit But it was something that was getting out of control And so the decision to like replace an internet connected device that was on me all the time So I didn't have a smartphone at this time I still was rocking like a dumb.
I was like a Motorola something something with buttons I don't even remember what I had um, but I hadn't quite gone to the palm That would be the next with the next year later that year. I don't know but early in 2009. I'm still rocking a dumb phone And so I had this I'm a touch and why if I even in 2009 was kind of everywhere Right. All right.
Yeah, um, it was definitely at my office where I worked. Um, you know, it was definitely home It was definitely like at starbucks's like it was a lot of places Um And it was a problem for me and so this thing became slow and crappy and unusable And I recognized that maybe I needed something a little more disconnected I didn't want to go back to like an iPod video like I could have just gone back and by the And I thought the classic or classic that could have worked too, but um, I really liked the idea of something really minimal And there until this day I still think that's one of the most beautiful things Apple's ever made Is the third gen iPod shuffle. I think it's gorgeous. I agree.
I agree with you, but you know, yeah, I agree There's I mean, it's beautiful to look at right? It's beautiful to look at it's beautiful to kind of wear Right. It looks good on you because you wear it. It's one of those things you literally clicked to something Um, it's spent a lot of time in my like in my jeans is like coin pocket Uh, because that that's kind of where it lived for the most part and that's unfortunately where it died Okay.
Cause it uh, yeah, it went through a wash one day and it died. Oh, it literally died It literally died because I didn't take it out of my jeans's coin pocket. Oh, no Yeah, so that's how I killed that device, but it lasted a long time I think wasn't that expensive or it wasn't expensive was a thought sure it was that was the other thing too It was like it was oh, I can replace my puttuch for like 50 bucks with this thing That's right. Right.
Um, so it's like 50 bucks. It was cheap. Um And it came with those headphones that had the controls and you needed the controls because the shuffle itself had nothing It had the nothing it had one switch and the switch had It had two slots on the switch and the switch finally enough looks exactly like the switches inside the settings panel in iOS 8 Or iOS 7 when they did the reset Like that's what the green one was like like they kept that switch What does the switch for so the switch if you if you Pushed it just once it would play songs in order and if you pushed it twice it would play songs with shuttle Where we laugh about the i-pot shuffle and i laugh about it a lot, but the truth is it's uh When the when it was announced I was thinking oh, I kind of like it there was a device without buttons I thought it was cute for apple to have one. Yeah, of course.
I never used one. Uh, so in practice I wouldn't know what I was talking about. Yeah, uh, all you do on the thing is play and next and previous and shuffle Uh, there's one here's one more thing you can do with it You can change playlists and those playlists can include podcasts I see so the i-pot shuffle unlike any of the other i-pods Um had a you could just hold down the plus button I think I think it was the plus button you hold it down and it would change it would shuffle through playlists And the last playlist in the list would be your podcasts So you could so you could sync your podcast to it and that became um, that became basically how i listened to music and podcast for like two or three years I see Yeah, yeah, and that makes sense And would there be a voice telling you what it is? That's right.
They do now. Yeah for from that one on they did Um, but even okay, even after this came out you still can't do that with your iPhone Like that feature is not there now for anything but the shuffle Okay, so I my question is what I mean, I'm being mean about that thing because of its place in history It's place in its ridiculous device. Yes. Yes.
Yes. No, let's see. That's what I was gonna ask you about It's ridiculous in the uh in it wasn't ridiculous in theory. I think uh, I think for a time it was pretty cool I mean because if anyone complained about it, there was always the nano There was always the touch and then there was always the iPhone, you know, I mean It's like the people who pick on the the map of one now I mean, you know, if you don't want like the map of one go get the pro go get the air Uh, so there were there were alternatives with buttons.
Mm-hmm. So uh, but it was a ridicule device because it had no buttons But the response was very easy very simple just then don't buy it. Yeah, uh, at what point I mean The thing had buttons a game of ear earphones Yeah, I had the buttons on the earphones. Yeah And the logic is if you're if you don't if the complaint would be okay I don't like those earphones I like using my earphones then the response from apple would simply be even don't buy this iPod Because this iPod needs the earphones or the buttons or Buy by headphones that have those controls because plenty of right did by then.
That's right That's right. That's right the button and the microphone or yeah, or just the button They were available. Yeah, but if you were willing to spend that much money on a different set of earphones the user your iPod You could just buy a different iPod altogether. Yeah, uh, so the it was ridiculed But I don't think completely merit that it was dismissed as a stupid device But here we are talking about this device on your list of on your list of so-your-curse products That's true.
Uh, at what point did you transition from loving this thing to dismissing it? I never dismissed it I accidentally murdered it. That's that's what happened I never hated the iPod shovel the iPod shovel to this day is the only apple product that has exceeded my expectations and never let me down I swear it's my most loved apple product I never once looked at that thing with scorn or derision. I never once regretted this purchase I never once thought oh, I wish I had something different for what this thing is good at Like weirdly enough that little tiny thing Was perfect for me and it would have maybe sucked for anyone else, but it was perfect for me Wow, okay.
Yeah It's the same as every other shuffle Except the buttons or somewhere else. Yeah, so This thing I think for people who want to shuffle and want the features that a shuffle features a shuffle has This thing is no different from any other one. In fact, it's the nicest looking one So for you to so I hear what I'm getting at. Yeah, this whole show is about choosing poorly This is about your kursts for the iPod iPod video I understand why I thought was a curse coming from a coming from a mini displayer and then eventually Uh, the apple Byers remorse.
Yeah, I'm the biting you and in the iPod touch eventually died Because of and then you jail broke it first and eventually died. Yeah, I get it The iPod shuffle. I have to admit to you I mean I wanted to end the show with a catchphrase of the title of the show Um, but I would honestly say that this was there's a sense of sentiment here given Also, it's place in your life what you were going through and why you needed to buy it I think so and I think that's still it's still kind of true for me It's one of the reasons I haven't I thought touched today Because that sort of is that sort of is the thing that fits in my life right now in that space It's why I still kind of have two things. Um, and that's something I'm still kind of working on Is like is there do you need a second thing for stuff like consumable media or can the thing that you have for for communication?
Also be the thing you have for your stuff. I'm still that's something I've Wrestled with for many many years because I think there's a lot of good points that keep those things separately Um But uh, yeah, I I think the shuffle is the thing that like if I if I'm cursed if the things that I purchase fail or To the company that made them I think the shuffle is is one of them is one of my big hits because that thing Like tagged huge that was a major like miss on their part Um, like that wasn't the first iPod they designed that didn't like do that Well, but it was the first one where they were like, oh, we got to fix this by reverting to the previous design Because all they did with like the next shuffle was like do the previous one slightly there Like with different colors Like the surgeon was this like experimental crazy thing that failed and then apple did something that I'd never seen them do before Was go back to the safe thing. Yeah, I'd never seen them do that before and when they did that there was a little part of me that went You know what? I don't know if I have like the blind faith in this company that I had for a long time Uh, this was after the shuffle.
Is it your saying? Yeah, yeah When they when they replaced the shuffle when they replaced the shuffle with the fourth one and the fourth one just had the exact same button Layout is the second one. It was the first time ever as far as I can tell ever that apple basically went We used to have something that worked. Let's just do that again.
Right as opposed to going forward Yeah, the keynote with Steve was job just talking about how People love the colors of the new one but loved the buttons of the older one Yeah And I don't remember anyone thinking that I wish they would make a new device with old buttons But with the colors it was the clear the most obvious marketing spin They've ever done on a product because no one thought that the great thing about the third gen device was the was the colors In fact, the thing that everybody loved about it was precisely that it was what it was that it had no buttons And it looked like it's smaller than a what flashsticks looked like You can swallow it. It was I think unsafe for children. Yeah, I'm not eating I bought shuffle The instructions, right And You know, I feel like you're ruining the premise of the show for the first episode No, not really not really because this I crushed this thing right because they like and they replaced that product so quickly I don't think that they even lasted a whole year Yeah, yeah, but that's not this is what I'm saying though. It might be me then That's not curse and that's not that's not I think you feel bad about or regret See, I mean I'm looking at all these other devices and even the previous do and I guess I get it, you know But for this one, I have to say I have to argue against you This doesn't this is not a case of you choosing poorly at all.
You know what you chose poorly was to leave that thing in your pants. That's Show title Exactly Not that you bought it In fact, I will say if the show works out and we get sponsors and we make a lot of money. I'm gonna go on you pay and send you one Oh, that's so sweet You know, it feels like it's the I mean remember how ATP had the the center of ATP was Their desire for a new power map and how they made fun of the new power map new map, bro Yeah, they made one of the old map row with a new stick around it and that was their album type I mean, not the Bergana, but if we're gonna follow that tradition, it should be the iPod shuffle. You know, it's just what would people even recognize it?
It's a semi rectangular round colored aluminum thing. So I suppose they won't if you here's the thing You could take the iPod third gen and you could like show it to somebody and be like this is and if they didn't know what it was You could say this is like what apple wants the Mac Pro to look like in 20 years and anyone you show it to will be like Yeah, that makes sense. I think that's right. That's exactly right It's the logical conclusion for all these things.
Yeah, and uh, you know credit credit to them I mean you can imagine the board meetings, right? And everybody accepts new jobs and Johnny. I tell them that it was stupid Oh, I think Johnny. I've designed that product.
I think Johnny. That's entirely Johnny. I just I bought shot It was the it was the yeah, you can imagine the four souls of the company just thinking no, that's stupid They want buttons and feel shit or thinking no, that's stupid. We want buttons and these two and those do saying you know, no This is the future.
This is what everything's gonna look like and we know let's take the word of the books headed Um, and then one year later just go back like nope. Nope. That's not where the fuck is That's true too far too far But you still see them inching towards that you wake with the Mac book one with a single port It's like eventually that port's going away too. That's right.
Yeah, exactly Yeah, and the rumors of the new iPhone without the headphone port. It's it's the first at all Yeah, that's the first exactly I mean it seems master but already for them to have released it But I'm sorry again. We're ruining the show by turning to an apple praise session, but that's okay I haven't we will return to apple. I'm sure in the future.
There's plenty of stuff to talk about there Um, I think this was a good place to start Yeah And uh, it's a good place to start but not not not given our original premise. That's okay This is this is gonna be flexible I still think that products that I personally enjoyed and meant a lot to me can still be failures And that's that's still interesting because the iPod shuffle third gen was definitely a failure You just have to be a failure that I loved for very specific reasons. Yeah, uh, but uh, given How how is in your life? I don't think it was the iPod shuffle you chose morely.
I think it was I think it was your life at the time. Yeah, I was making other terrible decisions Yeah, that's what you chose morely. Don't say the iPod that thing was beautiful. Yeah, it was good for you I think so too.
I think so too. I think the next couple of things that I chose Uh to play music on we're we're interesting, but we can leave that for another show Yeah, that's that's for next time. What do you listen to music on today? Is your iPhone?
Just my phone. Yeah, well, no, that's a thing we're gonna talk about our do eventually So, uh, it's a lot of eyes on everything So I'm not as tied to a specific device when it comes to music anymore. Mm-hmm. So yeah, it's weird when you think like what we just talked about was like The thing we played music on for a long time and it's like well now it's anything that has an internet connection Right.
Yeah, in many ways, I would say my iPhone still because when you're driving you can't plug in your iPad I can't plug in my iPad pro while driving Uh, but then yeah, it's supposed to be You just put that thing right up on the dash and make it a Tesla, right? And then not see anything beyond it and you know crash a car Um, but yeah, I there's there's the iPhone and uh, but then there's the internet So we move on to that eventually. Yeah. Yeah, so podcasts on my iPhone everything else on everything on all the other devices Cool.
Well, yeah, I think that it was a good place to wrap up for now I think that was long. Um, I think every other episode is gonna be this. Oh, no, that's okay That's that's a piece of stuff. Um, I don't think every other episode will be as long as this one But this was a good place to start and I think what maybe we won't cover a whole like Pantheon of products every time.
Yeah, sorry about that. It just made sense to me. No, okay. This was totally stop apologizing.
I'm the Canadian Okay, I'm a I'm a Canadian so I got used to it man. So did she thought you had to apologize for our really? No, I think we just got used to it. This is what we're supposed we don't really fight.
We just apologize for hours. That's nice Angingly we apologize about ourselves about each other angrily. Now we're talking about married life This probably won't make it to the show, right? This will never air.
Yeah, because I would ask your wife tell me about your life. No, uh, yeah, let's definitely talk about her. Why is on show's poorly podcast? That's a good idea You already know we're eventually gonna talk about five years from now No bad.
All right, Mikey, this was awesome. Thank you. We will do this again very very soon. Thank you, man.
Let's do it. All right, man. Cheers. Okay, night.
All right, good night