You Chose Poorly S01E06 - Rdio

Kanye West. Yeah, we completely forgot to talk about Kanye West. We completely forgot. That might actually come to nothing.

He's changed his album names before, and so I think he changed his last album title like 15 times before actually settling. Yeah, but I don't really pay attention except when he's on the news, on the mainstream non-music news. But we were talking about him, I wanted to have talked about him just to connect the discussion about smugness and our choice of gadgets and things we buy and how we feel about it. So yeah, you already Kanye West of this podcast.

Yeah, I guess I'm the Kanye West of this podcast. I hope I'm not the Kanye West of too many other things. Yeah, you're not the Kanye West of life. Probably not.

That would be me. No. Nobody would. It would have been, and I do regret a little bit in the point we made about sort of like narcissism of loving sort of exclusive thing.

It's a very Kanye West thing to do. Yeah. And so I remember that tweet when he, because I follow Kanye West, of course. And I remember just the tweet he wrote about having his next album be called TurboGrafx 16.

That's a dumb name for an album, let me just say, because no one's going to get it. And when someone gets explained to him, they're going to think, well, that's really stupid. Like, the secret of it when it comes out is not awesome. So it's like, that's a bad name for a title and I hope he changes it.

But in the case he doesn't, then yes, we will have something in common. Yes, exactly. Whoever does get it are the ones who will enjoy it the most. You the one.

So like you. Like me. Yeah. And now, thanks to our show last week, me.

And I guess, you know, when I guess like there were a few people after the show where there were a few people in my life who came forward and said, you know, dude, I totally had a TurboGrafx. And back when I said on the previous show that no one I knew actually had one, a few people have said yes, no, I totally had one. To which I quickly replied, why have we not talked about this before? Because I never had conversations about the TurboGrafx with any of these people.

So and that includes Kanye West. Kanye West apparently was a TurboGrafx owner when that was a thing. And he lists like games, he likes everything and checks out, or checks out. So you know, I'm, I do have that in common with them at least.

Yeah. Yeah, at least that. Yeah. Hopefully.

Well, I mean, you know, not hopefully he's got some stuff that, you know, he's probably got a pretty good stereo. Ah, so you're a fan. Well, I don't know. He's, he's, Kanye West is one of the celebrities to me that's just sort of ubiquitous and you sort of can't get out of his air anyway.

So yeah, at least try to find the stuff that you don't hate, you know. Well, I enjoy him as a celebrity more than as a musician, I think. I think that's the point. Yeah, he's such a, he's such a pro wrestler, you know.

Yes. So part of me is like, well, of course people are like that. That's a normal way to be. Of course Donald Trump's running for president.

Of course this makes sense. Of course. Yeah. Obviously that would happen.

Why are you guys so surprised? I, we're not. We're not. We're not.

We're not. So today, yeah, today we're going to talk about audio, right? We're going to talk about audio. This is one of the pillars.

This is one of the ten polls at this show, I think. Because when I look back on, when I look back on the things that I've chosen poorly, by the way, this is you chose poorly, a tech podcast about being wrong. I'm sorry, Paul. As always with my co-host, Mikey Lauren, we're going to talk about audio today.

And in the sort of list of things where I feel like I chose poorly, audio is one of the big ones, along with, you know, the third gen shuffle, the zoom, and, you know, just my general career choices, you know, I'm kidding. I am drinking for the show, by the way. Drinking, drinking, drinking. Drinking, drinking.

Clear that. Does this one still warm on the hearts? It's happened dead all that long. And it's absence has left a huge hole in my life.

So let's start by talking about what the hell RDO is. And for people who are thinking, I don't mean radio, this is RDO without an A. It's R-D-I-O. So you know it is millennial garbage.

That is how you know what millennial garbage is. That's the giveaway. If they're taken out vowels, that's a hint. Video was a competitor to Spotify, to Pandora, to, it was never a competitor to Apple music until the very end, I guess.

But it was essentially a music service where you, it was a competitor to the zoom. It was essentially a music service where you gave them some money and in return they gave you all the music they had. And that's basically what a music subscription service is, right? You hand over a little bit of money a month, it becomes a utility fee in your life, and you get all the music, which is a huge paradigm shift over what we used to have, which was you either paid for each song or each album, and that was yours or you stole each song or each album and that was yours.

And you had this collection that you needed to have space on your hard drive for, and you needed to sync with the cable. And before that, there were physical media and all that stuff. The streaming service was a big shift in how people listen to music and stuff like that. And it still is, it's still big, and it's still kind of like, in my mind, the streaming music is now kind of the default.

That's how you listen to music in 2015 or in the late 20s, you know, like, certainly in the 2010s, in this decade, you listen to music through a streaming service. That's the default way. Every other way is in some way, Akron. So, um, RDO started in 2010, and it quickly became available in every country that it was going to be available in.

That was, I think, its big strength, was that right out the gate it was available pretty much everywhere. Well, I'll tell you that it wasn't available here. Right, right. I was going to ask if it was available there.

I guess the difference is, if it wasn't available there at the beginning, it was kind of never going to be available there. RDO did not have the big like roll out across years as Spotify did. Where Spotify slowly crept across its available countries. RDO came out in 2010, and by the end of 2010, I was using it.

And I was giving it money, and I gave RDO money for, on and off for a few months, but for pretty much five, three years. So, yeah, through a thousand standards when it launched, and then, so, almost immediately, you subscribed, right? As soon as I could, I don't actually remember the month I started, I guess I could go into like my bill and find my started paying for them. But like, I want to say it was sometime in 2010.

And what were the other services offered at them that you could have chosen from? My options in Canada, and I want to, I want to be clear to my listeners that I'm sure other countries had way more options. But in Canada, I believe my only options were the Zoom pass, which was even at that point, a dicey Canadian proposition, I needed a US Microsoft account in order to subscribe to the Zoom pass, you know, work arounds that kind of thing. I believe Pandora had something, but it was, it was different to Canada than it was in the States.

And that's it. So no, definitely no Apple, definitely no Spotify. Spotify would not come to Canada until September 2014. Wow.

Late. Yeah, that's not much longer than ours. Right. Late.

Then when it came out here, yeah. So, RDO had a huge head start on Spotify in Canada. I don't want to wonder then. In a way, sure.

Yeah. Yeah. And the weird thing is I've been talking to people this week about RDO because I know, I know people unlike the TurboGravics, I know people in real life who used RDO and paid for RDO, including my wife. She hadn't account for many years as well.

She loved the service. Some people who I work with, who used the service were very sad to see it go. They all still miss it. Even people who only got to use it for a couple of weeks were like, ah, that was the good one.

That was the one that felt like you got it right. There was just kind of something about the software the way it was arranged, like the way you used it that felt really good in a way that the other ones to this day don't. Was it because it was the first streaming service you used where there was a big battery time shift for you as a music listener? Or was it in and of itself superior to others, do you think?

I think, well, that really depends on the device I was using at the time for what was good or not. But the thing that got me about RDO was that this is going to sound super nerdy, but this is a nerdy tech podcast. It had a workflow that felt right. If you use iTunes at all for any number of years, you know that there's like a workflow to iTunes.

You somehow get music into iTunes, you have to organize it in some way, you have to fiddle with podcasts or sign up on a playlist, and you have to sync it to a device. And then at some point in time, the information from your listening habits can inform more stuff in iTunes that you can then further tinker with. That's the workflow of iTunes, right? The workflow of RDO was that you went in and you saw a few options.

One of them was new releases. Let's go super basic, new releases. What's out this week? I'm going to show you a cascading reverse chronological list of albums and singles that have just come out.

Like we're brand new available to the service. And you would just like tap on one of them and it would just start playing the album. What you could then do is say that album to your collection, or you could add the album or any number of songs to a playlist. That's super basic.

That's all the services do that, basic stuff. Everybody expects all of them to do that without even thinking, right? The next thing that you would do is leave reviews or comments on either the album or the individual songs. And what would happen with that is your username is now attached as a tag to that song or album.

For everyone to see. Well, you get the set of preference. You can have your comments be private, so you can only see them or you can have them be public so everybody can see them. And that to me was a major differentiator.

And those names by the way are hyperlinked. So you like tap or you click on someone's username who's left a review that you like, who's tastes you agree with. And it sends you to their profile. And on their profile, it shows you all of their public playlists, all of the albums they've and all the reviews they've left.

Now we're starting to see like, well, this is a social network now, right? This isn't just like a music listening service. This is now a social network. This sounds like Facebook.

And it doesn't sound like it's just a background social media feature on a music device, a music service. It sounds like it's really the point of it. It was for me because what I ended up doing was finding people with who's taste I agreed with or was interested in. And I follow those people.

And now what happens when you follow those people, you get a feed of their stuff in the app. And so when they leave a review and they add an album, any activity they do in Oreo, you see in your feed. And that was my favorite feed on the internet. I liked that more than Twitter.

I liked that feed way more than Facebook, way more than YouTube. That was my favorite feed to scroll through. So you find a group of people with whose taste you like in the specific nerdy, expensive website. And that informs and enriches your musical life.

And that's what I loved about it. I see it then. I wish we I got to try it. I know this is what that super sucks about a site that's dead is that you can't even go on eBay and go buy an old crappy one.

You want to go buy a zoom today, you can get one. Or a shuffle. Or a shuffle. You can get that thing.

And it'll work. But if you, if I, you're going to listen to this podcast or somebody who listens to this podcast and go, I want to try that out just to see what they're talking about. Gone. Now there's, there's videos on YouTube of this kind of thing working people.

There's some archival footage of it in our show notes for this episode, which you can find at uchosporleypodcast.tumbler.com. You go to episode six, you will see links to various stories about audio. But it was really nice and gorgeous. It was a gorgeous website.

It was like, it was just clean and minimal. And it had all that flat design stuff that would become dorigor a few years later. I know I said that terribly wrong, but I'm from Alberta. So, um, you're drinking.

So that's right. I'm sad about this one. Yeah. Boom.

So when did you, when did it become official for you that audio was your favorite thing? Um, pretty soon, because I fell in love with the site really early. And, and like, it was one of those things where I like, it was 10 bucks a month and it was 10 bucks a month that you had to think about every month, right? Cause you, you know, I, I had a couple of subscription services.

Like I think I paid for Flickr every year, but not too many others, you know? Uh, like that was the big one. I was paying 120 bucks a year for this thing. So I, that's a, that's money.

That's something you can think about. And so I had better love it, right? That's if you're going to spend that kind of money on something, you better really like it. You better at least Netflix love it, you know?

Like that's, that's more expensive than Netflix. It is. Yeah. That's probably why it never came out here.

I don't think, uh, it would have survived charge. I don't think anyone would have paid $10 here. Right. For a music service, because everything's cheaper here when it comes to subscription services.

It's just the like three or $4 cheaper, right? And for Netflix, for Apple Music for Spotify, Spotify charge is what? Two dollars, 50 or $3 I think a month. Um, yeah.

And, uh, having subscribed to other services in the past, I can tell you that when it comes out in the Philippines and for it to be so much cheaper, it's such a relief. Uh, it's such a, such a happy news for us. I don't think anyone would have subscribed or paid $10 a month here for audio and that sucks. Um, I'll tell you, our, our music streaming services situation here is only better now and it's only because of Spotify.

But in the past, when Pandora came out, Pandora came out and audio came out and Spotify became very popular. We had none of those. Uh, one time I was, I think I was driving. Don't do this, but I was driving and I just thought, I'm tired of my music.

I want to listen to new music and I want to see if we finally have Pandora because everyone at the time was talking about Pandora. And I pulled over and, uh, I looked for Pandora, the app and I found it on the app store. So I downloaded it and then I went, uh, went about my way waiting for it to finish. When I finished downloading, I was driving, I was on a highway, I think.

Um, and, uh, I tapped on the Pandora icon and I was so confused because I had no idea what it was. It turns out the Pandora app I got was the Pandora jewelry shop store. And I was on the road and I was like, huh, what, what? And I spent more time looking at my phone than driving, uh, which was not a good idea.

I don't blame you though, because you're thinking, what this, this bracelet plays music somehow. Something about diamonds or what? I got to collect them all. What?

So no, it did not work. Uh, after that, all we had was an app called Atrax. You ever heard of Atrax? I have heard of Atrax.

Um, Atrax is one of the, uh, Atrax is still around. Atrax, I think, I think it's still around. I think Atrax is, cause we talk about the major leagues for streaming services, but there's also the minor leagues. There's Desar and a couple of other, like there's, um, there is a site and it's a really, really great site.

Um, and this is what I use to export my audio stuff. It's called Sound Dizz with two eyes, S-U-S-O-U-N-D-I-I-Z. Um, it's a, again, it's a terrible millennial garbage name for a website. If you see extra vowels, also a millennial garbage, I just want to say.

But what it's a, it's a, it sounds like a future, a future you chose for the episode. It totally is. But it's, it's, this is the kind of service that's really valuable. So what they do is you log in with two or more music streaming services that sounds so ridiculous.

But if you have, if you're like trying to move, if you're like, I hate Spotify, I'm going to go over to Google Music, or I hate Desar and I'm going to go over to YouTube or SoundCloud or Hellnapster or whatever, groove music. You can sign in to two or more services and just move playlists around. You have to do it manually. It's not an automatic thing.

You have to do it manually. You have to go, I want this playlist from here and you drag it over there. And it works. It works really, really well.

And it's free. And it's, it's totally a site that I would recommend people use. Um, I don't really know what they're doing with your information. I'm assuming they're selling it, you know, whatever.

But if it's, if it, if you want your stuff from one service to be on some other service, that seems to be the best way to do it right now. And it works for Apple Music also. It works with Apple Music through iTunes. So you can, if you're in there and you have like a Spotify playlist, you can export the Spotify playlist as a file that iTunes will read.

Yes. Yes. So if you have Apple Music, it'll read the file and make the playlist for you. And vice versa.

If you want to leave Apple Music, go Spotify. Same thing. So, so, uh, RDO died like last year, right? RDO died November 2015 with a quick blog post out of nowhere.

Yeah, it was weird because we hadn't really heard from the company in a few months. And RDO was usually pretty good about the blog updates and Twitter updates. And they had people who were doing that. And it made the company feel personable.

Like it made you feel like you could talk to them. Like their support forums were pretty good. And they would have a new blog post out every other day or so with new music to talk about an exclusive playlist and stuff like that. That's another sad thing that just disappeared.

It's like, RDO much like Spotify or Apple Music had their own exclusive recordings of certain albums, the RDO sessions where a band would come in and they would do like an acoustic set or something like that. And that would be exclusive to them and all that's just gone. Or supposedly I guess Rhapsody would have it because they're who bought them. Oh, so just purchased.

I didn't even sorry. I wasn't even paying attention to RDO. It wasn't really purchased. Like, are you legit went out of business filed for bankruptcy?

They were not acquired or anything. But I believe Rhapsody or was it Pandora? I honestly don't remember. I think it might be Pandora.

Was it Pandora? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was Pandora who just like bought the remains of it. So I don't know what they bought it.

You know? Yeah, what's happening to Pandora? No. Is anyone even talking about them?

No, I don't know. I don't know. It's one of those things where it's like, well, they're a minor league player, I guess. But like at this point, are you going to trust them with your stuff?

I don't know. Pandora kind of had its time and it's still around, but it kind of feels like an Napster. Like you wouldn't sign up for an Napster account today. Would you even though they're still around?

Right, right. Seems weird, you know? Yeah. So when did so it died last year?

This doesn't so it sounds like this is the sort of thing where you chose poorly. Meaning you chose the you gambled poorly, you know, you chose the one that wouldn't survive rather than it was actually a poor choice. That's sort of the weird thing about like music streaming services is that you got to pick a team. You get it's not like and you have to pick a team at the right time because Apple music just came out.

You know, I get the year old now roughly, but like that's not long. In the lifespan of a service. Spotify has been around for a long time, but only in certain countries, you know? So if it's September 2014 and Spotify shows up in Canada, well, then I guess, yes, Spotify is the right choice then.

But like what were you supposed to do before then? And so Apple music shows up eight months later and I guess maybe that's the right choice. But what were you supposed to do before then? And what are you supposed to do now that Apple has gone and deleted all of your DRM free songs and replaced them with Apple music versions?

Yeah. You know, like there's I don't know what the right choice is in this in this field. It's not clear to me which the right what the right path would have been, you know? If it's 2010, what do you do with zoom?

I mean, I did some months. I I I I tooled around with the zoom pass sometimes. It would never felt totally right to me the way it worked, but I used it sometimes. But like, already, I felt right.

And when it's unclear, like, market force wise, who's winning, like none of us had any idea, I think, who was more popular for a long time. The numbers came out eventually that Spotify was just crushing it and are you had like, I don't know, 1% of the market, something like that. But like, for a long time, it was really unclear. I don't know what like, I guess it depends when in the history you're at.

I don't know. What do you think? Well, I think it's I was going to say how unfortunate it is that the market determines what the right choice is rather than the products themselves. I think this is why this is why I've gained an appreciation for Apple.

I tried I told myself I would try not to talk about Apple this episode, but this one's not about because I think I think as soon as Apple music came out, it was like, oh, that just pushed already over like fourth and I don't know if there's room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But you're right. And but in terms of I thought we'd be talking about Apple music and I had very little to praise about Apple music. But but thinking about the industry with Apple, they're almost I mean, they're not completely, but they're almost impervious to the market. They can do pretty much whatever they want and they don't have the profit from the thing they're doing to keep doing it.

You know, and it's and it is because of the market in that sense. They don't have to have the best product. They can just be Apple and they can suck at it and not make money from it and they won't die. Whereas audio or let's say an equivalent of the wearables like the like the pebble, you know, pebble is at risk of dying every be quite.

You know, pebble is perfect as an analogy. Yeah, because pebble is totally the audio of like the ratch world. Yes. Right.

They do so many things right. They do so many things better than the big players would. But you worry it's hard to recommend because you worry that they won't be supported after six months or so. So with audio, I feel so or with music services, the you can't recommend anymore having seen what happens to all these companies, all these startups.

You can't recommend you don't necessarily have to recommend the best or or it being the best product is no longer the primary variable in terms of what they recommend or what they use. And that sucks. I think that's the that's the tragic thing about this industry that we're such a fan of. Yeah.

You know, I mean, it's it's Apple fans have it a little easier because they're not going to lose money any time soon. And even if they do, it's going to be a long time before they disappear. But maybe like what if you're say you say you're a Mac Pro purchaser. Oh, yeah.

Do you feel like maybe it shows poorly there? Yeah, you're right. You're right. But there are there are there's easy consolations for for those.

I mean, if my iPad bro, all of a sudden, if I start regretting my iPad, bro, all I'll have to do is have more money, you know, you know, Apple doesn't have to do anything. They can just quit the iPad bro business and I feel bad. And then, oh, well, there's the mini. There's the air.

There's always the map, you know, but then if you're for a service though, or a service like or even again, like, I will for a pebble. What do you do? You just completely have to leave it once it's been. And for audio, I guess I'm going to get to that later with you for audio.

The hook wasn't so much of the music itself because the music itself could be found in almost any other service. Right. So the thing that the hook for you was that it was your favorite Internet thing to do, you know, for for a person, especially, yeah, but it was also my favorite of the lot. And like even in 2015, like fall 2015 before audio died, like, let's say September 2015, I haven't heard anything regarding audio's death at that point in time.

That's still the one I was recommending to people on it, even playing ground with Apple music and Spotify. I was still recommending audio to people. And you had no idea about the business and any of those things. Not really.

I mean, I wasn't, I guess my ear just wasn't to the ground on that one. But like there were people who like, like there were people in my office who still kind of cursing me a little bit right now because I was like, you've got to get on this audio thing and they got on and they liked it. And then it shut down like a month later. Right.

And they're like, dude, come on. Yeah. And they blame you. That's it.

I think that's when my kind of curse became super apparent. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you. That was the next thing. It's like, oh, something's happening here.

That's that's too much of a coincidence. Yeah. And that was September right before they died. Yeah.

So that was like that was a crystallization moment for me, where it's like, oh, no, maybe there's something bigger happening here. Maybe it's me. I think it's so sad that you I mean, hindsight being 20, if if you knew if you were to the ground and you knew that you were doing well, you would be less likely to recommend them. Simply because they might die.

I just want to talk about the tragedy of that because it sounds like a superior product. I wouldn't know, but I believe you generally. Well, no, not all the time, but no, but it sounds like it was a superior product and that it wouldn't have been recommended, recommended knowing the market. It's just the suckiest thing.

Yeah. I'll say this. I still find I mean, I'll go into Spotify right now. I'll say right now, six months after R.

R.E.O. is death. I still don't pay for a music service. I use Google music.

Oh, that was the other big monster was Google music, right? I use Google music. I use Spotify. I use iTunes, like not Apple music, but iTunes.

I mean, I'm kind of scattered at the moment. Like I feel like I was on one good ship and then it sank and now I'm scattered among splintered things. And I hate parts of all of them. And that's what's stopping me from like kind of like getting on shore with any of them is because there's there's parts of Spotify.

That I just can't stand and parts of Google music that I think is like horribly designed and parts of Apple music that is well documented, like huge problems there. Like why like if you send a message to somebody on Spotify, why doesn't that sink between devices at all? Like they get it on one device, but not on others. It's insane to me.

Yeah. Like why is there any difference between Spotify, Web App and Spotify desktop app? Like why are those two completely different things? Yeah, that's crazy.

It is. It's there are many things to complain about. I think that's for. Yeah.

So you are to use Google Play, use Spotify, Apple music. Yeah. So let's say right now, like after this, you want to listen to music. What's the first thing you're going to do?

It kind of depends on how good my internet access is. Because like if I'm if I'm if I'm if I'm planning on going into the subway or if I'm planning on like hanging out in my bedroom where the Wi-Fi isn't as good, I'm using like my iPod touch in my local songs. Because because if you don't pay for service like Spotify, if you don't give Spotify money, you can't download songs offline. And so the second you get to a place where the Wi-Fi or the LTE is spotty.

It's like, well, I guess you don't get to listen to this. Which is fine. I get the business model, but like there's that if I'm if I'm looking for new music or if I'm like playing music off the internet that I already know that I like, I tend to go to Spotify. If I'm if I just want to put on like a playlist for like three hours and not touch music, I go to Google music for that because I find that they're like just hit play on a certain genre and leave it alone for a while.

I find their lot better at that. But are you was good at all of it. It was they had. Okay.

One last feature of are you they had when you clicked on an artist or a playlist and you hit like start a radio station based off this. You would get three options. You would get only play songs like that are by this artist or in the genre and then you would get a hey, let's go a little bit further out from that and then a let's go crazy option. But inside that radio station, which is based based on that algorithm.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's algorithmic. Yes.

Audio. Was there any human aspect of it? There were human design play. There were human design playlists because you would follow people who would make playlists.

Ah, yes. I mean, yeah, but not from audio themselves. Yes. They are you themselves also created playlists.

Wow. Like I still miss I still miss this one like guy who did a jazz playlist every week. Like he would put he would just the same playlist. He would just replace the 10 songs that he had in that playlist once a week and he would just have 10 new jazz songs in that playlist once a week.

And so every Sunday I would hit play on that jazz playlist and it would be incredible because this guy was just fantastic at it. There was one girl who I followed who would make like a hundred song playlist about once a month. That was amazing. Like some of the best stuff I've ever heard and stuff I would have never unearthed on my own.

That like I miss that. I feel I feel such sympathy for you right now. Hey, it sucks. It sucks.

It's right. It's the internet, right? The things flam out, you know, the problem with that is that I have no idea where that girl is now what she's doing with her musical thing. Like if she found somewhere or the jazz guy, I don't know if he was just like, well, paying it up my jazz boots.

Yeah. You know, yeah. But it's I think of all the episodes we've done, not that we haven't done very many, but this is the most well, this sucks kind of episode that we have. Well, because the first one about software.

Yeah. Because software just goes poof. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

And even if other things offer similar things, it's just not the same. Yeah. So I was going to, if anyone asks what they, what would you recommend? What would you say?

I have no idea right now. That's that's that's what's kind of killing me is like, I don't know what to tell people and I don't know what to do myself. What do you do? And this is because the there's nothing you can recommend or is it like a fear of having a car?

So partially that I partially I partially think like, well, the next thing I recommend is going to die. So I'm careful. But also to me, I don't think there's a clear route. Like what if you're an android?

Are you honestly thinking of Apple music as a solution? If you're like an Android user, I know they have an app, but is that even at all compelling on that side? It's the lowest rated app on the store. Now despite like immediately.

I'm going to put that in a show notes, Apple music in Google Play Store. I don't know. I mean, what do you use right now? I use, yeah, I was going to get to that.

I use Spotify. OK, I came from Apple music because I wanted to give it a shot and the first three months were free, right? This was last June. And it did not work very well for me.

So I attributed it to getting the kinks out, being a first release, whatever, and went back to Spotify. But this year decided to try Apple music again. And it just did not work for me. It just simply did not work.

I'm on the way on the road. I full LTE signal, full everything. I can download everything else stream, everything else, but Apple music would not work. And my free account on Spotify would work instantly.

It just made no sense to me. So I just went back to premium Spotify premium. Nothing, thankfully nothing happened to my music. It replaced some of my songs, but it gave me the better version.

So I have very little to complain about. But if you ask me what I would recommend, it's not standardized yet. I think Internet service across the world. Sorry, when you say when you say you got the better version, did you get the DRM free versions or the DRM versions that Apple music give you?

I think I have the equivalent of the iTunes DRM versions. OK, so if you were to stop paying for Apple music, would that would work? No, I know. I did stop paying for Apple music and the songs that work.

Oh, so yeah, so they're DRM free, then? I don't think they're completely DRM free because it's from if it was from iTunes match, it would be DRM free. But Apple music I heard, I can't confirm yet, but I heard has limited DRM. So something like I can't move it over to an Android device or something, you know?

Right. That's sort of the quickest way of seeing if it works is like you go to the finder and you copy the song and you put it on your Dropbox and you try to open it up on your computer at work. Yeah. You know, that's how you tell if you have it or not.

I should confirm for follow up next week. OK, I'll check. OK. I will say I do pay for iTunes match.

I think iTunes match is the best money you can ever send to Apple ever. Really? But I heard it's so much bad about it. Well, we can talk about iTunes match on another show.

But it's to me, it's just a half. Happily paid though, every year. I've been going with it for years now. I don't know.

I can justify now, but yeah, given that everything's over the screaming. No, but anyway, so I was saying the internet internet service across the world is not standard yet. All right. I don't know.

It might just be the Philippines. Who knows? But I'll tell you that here, it's not because of the quality of the software because the Spotify app isn't nice. Although that's not just me, right?

It's not just me, right? The Spotify app is kind of junk. Yeah, it's ugly, black and whatever. I don't get it.

It's not the thing I imagine. I mean, in my mind's eye, I don't see it when I think of I want to listen to music today. Right. You know, Apple music is more like that, except it's a mess.

It's such a mess of an app on the phone. It's a mess of an app on iTunes is already a mess of an app. So on that standard, I can't recommend that either. But I simply won't recommend it at all, given that it's not optimized for crappy internet.

And much of the world still has crappy internet. Yeah, I think. No, you're right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's the I mean, I think Canada has a better. You guys have a better.

We have it. Okay. But we have ranked one of the lowest countries in terms of like first world countries and internet speed. Yeah.

That's so sad. Like we got like we just got rid of our three year phone contracts. Like we're not that advanced here when it comes to telecom. Yeah, you keep reminding me that's true.

We're the Blackberry country. So, you know, that's you guys. Um, and again, I will say you chose for like Blackberry people, not my fault. Never own one.

So I want to reiterate. Canada, Canada, Canada and Philippines might be our fault. We chose our country's worthy. We did much as we love them.

Can we can we do an episode one day about like who we voted for wrong? I can tell you about who other people voted for wrong. Of course you can. You have a Twitter account.

Of course you can. Sorry about that. It's okay. I'm a home.

If you have a Twitter account at some point in time, you'll get to politics. That's just to have what happens. Um, all right. Mikey, I'm going to wrap this up.

Um, again, you can find us at you chose for the podcast dot Tumblr dot com. Um, and you can find us on Miskloud and SoundCloud, the iTunes podcast app and store. Yeah, you got it. Please write us.

I guess I don't know. Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if they just added like a button for rating in the in the phone app. And that was the only thing they changed. Yeah, and that'd be nice if people break us.

Yeah. All right, man. I will see you next week with a whole new topic. Cheers.

Enjoy.