Your Charismatic Male Leader Will Always Disappoint You: A History of Utopian Communities with Monica Mercado

Historian Monica Mercado joins me to explore nineteenth-century utopian communities — from the polyamorous, silverware-making Oneida community to the celibate, achingly chic Shakers — and what draws people to radical experiments in communal living then and now. We get into charismatic male leaders who will always, always disappoint you, why the Shakers are having a moment (three members and counting!), and how nuns, queer culture, and Oprah Winfrey might all be connected. Spoiler alert: building a better world is not easy, but someone has to do it.Timestamps00:00 - Intro: TikTok nuns, convent summers, and the desire to leave society05:59 - Setting the scene: the "burned over district" and 19th-century utopian movements in upstate New York11:18 - Oneida: complex marriage, male continence, and why the silverware in your drawer might have a complicated history21:10 - Where Oneida goes wrong: eugenics, the government crackdown, and the charismatic male leader who runs away to Canada27:23 - Enter the Shakers: celibacy, beautiful furniture, and a female founder who said God is both woman and man36:18 - The last Shakers: Brother Arnold, Sister June, and the new member who just boosted global numbers to three48:07 - Nuns now: who's joining convents today, student loan debt as a barrier to entry, and the old nuns making protest signs on Facebook1:06:24 - Final thoughts: what utopian communities teach us about actually building (not just imagining) a better worldResources & Links Mentioned"I Am Anne Lee" by Eileen Myles (https://lithub.com/a-prose-poem-by-eileen-myles-ann-lee/ ) Visit the Oneida Mansion House — museum, B&B, and historic site in Oneida, NY (oneidacommunity.org)Ellen Wayland-Smith's Oneida: From Free Love Utopia to the Well-Set Table (https://bookshop.org/a/102042/9781250131867 )Visit Shaker sites: Hancock Shaker Village — the Shaker museum Mary visited in Pittsfield, MA (hancockshakervillage.org).  Shakers upstate (Albany, Chatham/Mount Lebanon. Sabbath Day Lake Shaker Village — home of the last living Shakers in New Gloucester, Maine (maineshakers.com)There Are NO Black Shakers is a contemporary folk opera re-interpreting traditional Shaker hymns to tell the very true story of Prime Lane, a free Black man who joined the Shaker Society in Albany in 1802.The New York Times profile of Brother Arnold and Sister June (2024)The New York Times coverage of Sister April joining the Shakers (2025)The AP on young nuns and student debt (https://apnews.com/article/young-nuns-catholic-student-debt-aging-4d61e7ed31df84f3879b119022cc170f)  and sustainable nuns! (https://www.franciscanmedia.org/st-anthony-messenger/the-nuns-are-ok-building-a-sustainable-future-for-women-religious/) Want even more resources, deep dives, and behind-the-scenes context on this episode's topics? Patreon members get access to my exclusive newsletter with extended research, additional links, and insights that didn't make it into the show. You can get the weekly newsletter when you join for free. Paid members get a monthly bonus episode and a weekly newsletter of things I'm loving in pop culture.Become a Patreon member → https://www.patreon.com/cw/MaryMahoneyTranscriptFull episode transcript here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14R54vWfai4WiYdI7EqBuMuJJnDBMRj3wpwrBVZW6oBs/edit?usp=sharing Connect with Mary:Website: www.marymmahoney.comInstagram: @mimimahoneyEmail: [email protected] the show? Please leave a rating and review! It helps other pop culture and history lovers find Landline.Guest InformationConnect with Monica Mercado:Website: https://monicalmercado.com/ Follow Monica’s convent research trips here: https://www.american-religion.org/empty-places/lorettoLandline is sponsored by Libro.Fm. Sign up today to enjoy audiobooks and support local bookstores! (link: https://tidd.ly/40tPrKb)Landline is an interview-based podcast exploring pop culture and history, hosted by Mary Mahoney. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.