Zebulon Heritage Farm

Today I'm talking with Ronel at Zebulon Heritage Farm.  This episode is sponsored by Greenbush Twins & Company. https://www.homesteadliving.com/subscribe/ref/41/ https://homesteadliving.com/the-old-fashioned-on-purpose-planner/ref/41/ www.patreon.com/atinyhomestead If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee  https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes 00:00 You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. This episode is sponsored by Greenbush Twins & Company, where creativity and community grow hand in hand. Just like a thriving garden or a well-loved homestead, the best things are built with care, purpose, and heart. Through thoughtful design, storytelling, and handcrafted goods, they're helping people celebrate a simpler or meaningful way of living. Learn more at Greenbush Twins & Company. 00:28 Today I'm talking with Ronel at Zebulon Heritage Farm in Tennessee. Good morning. Ronel, how are you? Good morning. Doing well. How about you? I'm good. Is it hotter than Hades in Tennessee this morning? It just about is. Yeah, I looked at the map that was on the news yesterday and the whole country was red. I was like, that doesn't happen very often. Mother Nature, what? 00:56 What got up your butt and irritated you? Because you're hot. There's something wrong.  Right. It's been a hot month for sure. It's been hot month. It's been terrible.  And  like I said to my co-host on my other podcast, I have two.  The other one is Grit and Grace in the Heartland. um I said to her the other day, I said, I'm trying to keep a really good attitude about this. 01:24 it's getting exceedingly more difficult with every day that the dew point is over 70 in Minnesota. That doesn't happen. Right. Cause that's a little different than here in the East where we have a lot of anyway. Yeah, absolutely. Minnesota is, is yes, close to a great lake, Lake Superior. It's right next to it. But last I knew great lakes weren't the same as ocean. 01:49 I grew up in Maine, so we had a lot of humidity in the summer in Maine. But you would not expect it to be this sticky. Well, I guess it is mid-July now, but usually we get the sticky in August. So it's been a bit much to swallow, Ronel. Let's just put it that way. I totally get it. I totally get it. Yes. So I would love for you to tell me a little bit about yourself and about what you do at Zebulon Heritage Farm. 02:19 Sure, sure. I guess, well, it's kind of a long story. mean, going back, I guess as a kid, I grew up on a homestead where we would bring you some bottle calves back then you could buy them for $5 from a dairy. And we milked some goats as a kid. I was never so fond of the goat milk though. So I guess later we got a family cow, I guess I was about 12. And my dad's like, here's a cow, milk her, take care of her, I want butter. 02:49 And then I milked the family cow for a lot of years. And I guess about 12 years ago, I decided at that point, I already had my own family. I decided I want to start a herd share. Some herd shares have been legal in Tennessee for quite a few years. So I added a second cow and then a third cow. And I guess over the past 12 years, it's just gradually grown and become 03:19 Well, full-time business.  Very nice. So  I know what A2A2 milk is. Is that what it's called? Right? Sure. Yes. But not all of my listeners will know. Can you explain what's special about A2A2 milk? Okay. So I guess there's a lot of different opinions, but I guess the short answer is it is the betacassin, which is the protein  in the milk. 03:48 but I guess it's dependent on the cow's genetics. there are a lot of different variants. And I guess most people don't know that. Most people assume it's either A1 or A2, but there's actually a lot of different variants. And A2, A2, which is both markers are A2, is the desirable one. It is believed to be more digestible, associated with better health. And I do believe there's merit in that because I have more than one 04:18 hard to share member that has told me they had raw milk. mean, most of the time if people can't drink store milk, they can drink raw milk, right? Because it's more digestible, it's less processed. But I have a couple of share members who have told me that they reacted badly to raw milk that wasn't A2A2 and they are able to drink my A2A2 milk. So there is definitely something to it and it is definitely something that a lot of people 04:47 or after because it's  associated with better digestion and better health. Thank you for explaining that because if I had attempted to explain that, I would have butchered it. It would not have been good. I was looking at your Facebook page and your website. Is it just jerseys that you milk or is it another  breed as well? 05:08 Yes, we have only jerseys. I mean, we do have a beef herd too that we  raise grass-red beef. But as for milking, we only have herded registered A2 jerseys. So it didn't start out that way. I just had some random jersey, you know, that I had no idea, you know, anything about her really,  as far as this A2 registration goes. But I gradually, um I guess, built up to the registered herd. So I bought like one registered cow and then bred her  and  tested. I bred only two A2 bulls. 05:39 And the calves I tested and I got lucky in the sense that even though if I had 50 % chance, I ended up getting mostly A2 cuffers. So my herd became fully A2 very quickly.  And then I just continued breeding to A2. So from there, we just went off with A2 cows. Okay.  I'm going to say this for me.  I would get nothing done if I had a herd of jerseys because I love their faces. 06:07 And all I want to do is hang out with them  and kiss their noses and stroke their ears. They are so pretty. Sure. I'm biased too. mean, know every breed has their perks and they definitely have their place, but I'm biased too. mean, the jerseys are just super pretty and they're just so curious. mean, they just have personality and they can be different too. mean, some are definitely nicer than others, but generally speaking, they're just  so like  part of the family kind of temperament, know. 06:37 They always look like they're going to be really sweet. I'm not saying that every single Jersey cow is sweet, but they look like they're going to be very sweet critters. And they are. I mean, I think I've had ones with my kids were a little, it's like before I could stop them, you know, they would call them on the cow or crawl under the cow. I was like, Oh my goodness, you know, you shouldn't be doing this to a cow, but you know, this particular half-puff, she didn't care. Yeah. It's just that, um, you know, some of them are just really gentle. Some of them not so much. mean, most, most of ours are really. 07:06 well-behaved.  I don't keep cows that aren't, but some are really friendly and they will be like upping your business.  Yeah, yeah. I would love to meet your cows. I think that it's so fun. I don't have any cows. We don't have room.  If we had room and I was about 20 years younger,  we probably would have cows.  Right. And I will say this to people starting out,  cows are a digger. 07:33 You know, I never had any intention of having the amount of cows I have right now.  It just kind of like every time a pepper was born, was like, I cannot sell her. You know, I have to keep her. And then I end up with, you know, 40 something calves. I'm going, okay, I got a problem.  Well, if you're that smitten with the Jersey breed, you must be just absolutely beside yourself  in love with the babies every time there's babies. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. They're just so cute. But I mean, they just look like a little deer. Yeah, I 08:02 I have a hard time every time I need to make a decision to keep one or not keep one, know.  Yeah.  Yep. And I can't believe that you remember when you could get  a calf for $5. Do you know how much a calf is going for right now? Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I just sold one this morning. I  mean, it's just a jersey bull. This one I sold, so they're not bringing as much, but the beef couch right now. Oh my goodness. They're, yeah, it's crazy what they're bringing right now. 08:28 Yeah, just a couple of years ago, I think you could still get a beef calf for like 50 bucks.  Right.  Right now. I heard the other day over a thousand dollars. Right. Nope. That's basically the heifers are going for  a thousand and upwards.  That's a hell of an investment.  Right. Right. And I mean, haven't, you just a few years ago in the time that I was running a herd chair, if I sold an adult cow that was like 08:58 kind of a, you could say a call, you know, maybe when she wasn't breeding or whatever, but she was a nice, fat, healthy, otherwise cow. When you sold her, you would be getting like $200. I mean, I sold more than one that I got $200 for. And I'm like, those days are so gone. Yeah. And I'm really afraid that the days of owning cows and steers or bulls is coming to an end because I keep reading about how the 09:26 I'm going to say bovines. The bovine herds across the United States are shrinking because farmers can't afford to keep them. Right. Right. And that is a concern because it's so, mean, buying replacements.  mean, initially it was like, you know, if a cow, if you didn't want a particular cow or there's something wrong with her, you just bought another, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't a big deal. But right now it's like, you have to, you know, you have to like take out a loan to buy.  You know, they're so expensive, especially if you're trying to buy a nice one. 09:56 Yeah, it's hard to get started in the business right now if you don't already have cows because they're so expensive to get. Yeah, if you're not part of a family that  is raising steers or dairy cows, trying to get in at 20 years old is almost impossible. Right, and I feel really bad because there are some people who want so badly to get into the business, but you know, it's so expensive to get started and then we're not even talking about everything else, farm regulating that. 10:25 farm related that is so expensive to get started. It's  really tough. It's really it is. And it's really sad.  like I said, my co-host and I talk about this all the time because she's a rancher in Nebraska. they raise steers for beef. They don't eat dairy. And  she loves you dairy people.  I swear she hugs every dairy farmer she meets. She loves you guys so much. 10:53 Well, we appreciate the beef farmers too. Like I said, I do have a beef herd too and  it's been the same way with them. The prices are just crazy. Yep, and it's a lot of work and a lot of heart to put into it.  So, um I know what a herd share is, but not all of my listeners do.  And I want to preface this whole next line of conversation with the fact that Minnesota allows raw milk sales, but only on the farm. 11:22 Okay. They don't sell raw milk in stores here. It's illegal. So  can you explain what a herd share is? Okay. So  in 2009, herd shares became legal in Tennessee. So a herd share is basically um potential customers, you could say, or potential share members. um If they wanted to acquire raw milk, they needed to like buy a share of the herd or even the cows. So you can get a cow share too. So 11:52 they had to like put a deposit down or put like a payment down and buy the share of a cow. And that would like, um, allow them or entitle them to a portion of the milk. So  I guess what it's basically comes down to is they're getting milk from their own cow, a cow that they own  in part. And that way it's not like, I'm not selling raw milk.  Um, I'm selling shares of herd and then  people can get raw milk by buying shares of the herd. then they can get. 12:22 um a portion of milk that way. I hope that makes sense. Yeah, it does. It's kind of on the same  idea as a time share, only you get better results. Yes, yes. And  a lot of people do the shares  because  I think it helps the customers be a little more uh committed  because they feel like they have a part in the herd. So it's not like... um 12:47 It's not like you're just buying milk this week and then not next week or whatever. You know, most of the share members, they um are committed to getting the milk on a consistent basis. Good, good, good. So, so I think I missed it when you're explaining this.  Is,  is raw milk illegal to buy in Tennessee unless you do it through a herd share?  Um, yes and no. So I guess there's two ways that you can acquire raw milk in Tennessee, either through a herd share, which is what I do. 13:16 or you have to be licensed as a pet food seller. And then you have to get like a license through the state and then you can sell it labeled as pet food.  mean, a lot of people do that even though it's not really their pets, you know, drinking it.  I am my own. I am my own pet. I will drink the milk. Yes. Right. Which is a perfectly great way to, you know, sell raw milk too. But I personally chose the herd share  model. Yeah. I found out last time we were in Maine. 13:44 or I grew up that raw milk  is not illegal at all. The little general store down the road from where my parents live now,  they sell raw milk in their coolers. oh And I was just like, wow, Maine is so progressive. Yay. Right. Right. And that is nice. Some states are definitely being much more um lenient than others. So that's really nice. 14:13 Yeah, I was surprised. I actually asked the cashier, I was like, how long ago did it become legal to sell raw milk at grocery stores?  And she looked at me and the first question out of her mouth was, where are you from?  said, well, technically Maine, I grew up here, but I live in Minnesota.  And you should have seen her face grin from ear to ear. She was like, one of my friends is from Minnesota.  She said, 14:40 I thought I picked up just the tiniest little cadence of Minnesota in your voice. was just so excited. She it up. That's fun. Yeah. And I said, I'm so confused that you picked that up because I try really hard not to sound like I'm from anywhere. She said, well, you don't sound like you're from Maine anymore. So check that off the list. I was like, uh-huh. Okay. Thank you. That's funny. So we had a whole long discussion about raw milk and that everybody loves it. 15:09 and that it's better for your stomach than pasteurized milk. It was a very interesting 15 minute conversation at the counter. That's great. That's great. So I want to hear a little bit about your beef cattle and then I want to hear about your class or whatever it was I read on your website. So tell me about your beef cattle. So I guess we have a small herd. I actually have a few of the last beef cows. have, Gary has. 15:38 Um, mostly Angus, Geltbee,  um, the mixture of both, um, most people know Angus, but Geltbee is definitely a less,  um, common breed.  Um, if I had to sum up Geltbee, it would be like Angus, but it's a little bit bigger, um, than it looks a little different. So, um, the mix between the two seems to be a good combination. They are a little bit bigger. They grow fast like the Angus do, but they're a little bit more sized.  And, uh 16:05 The mama cows have a lot of milk. So it seems to be a pretty good breed adapted for our  area here.  So we have heard of those and they just raise their calves. And we uh usually process the steers between like,  you could say 20 to 24 months old um for grass-fed beef. And we have a  customer base that we sell all that to.  Either by the  calf, the steer or whole steer. 16:35 Very  nice. Thank you for doing that. That is,  I feel like that's,  I don't want to say harder than dairy, but it is right up there with dairy because there are so many regulations that go with beef. Right. mean, the day to day work is a lot less.  Um, I feel like when there's an issue, it's harder to deal with. It's like, you know, a beef cow, you can't just walk up to her and say, okay, let's pick up your feet. Let me see what's going on with it. know? 17:04 You'd have to get her in the chute and she's fighting you. It's a little different. There's definitely more calving problems with the beef cows than with the jerseys. Jerseys tend to have no problems calving if you're breeding into a jersey. But the beef cows, especially the heifers, there's definitely more of struggle there. Sometimes they need help calving. So yeah, it's a different ballgame for sure. Yeah, I'm so impressed with everybody who raises the large animals. 17:32 We have chickens and we tried raising rabbits for a year that did not go well.  Not every rabbit understands that they are supposed to screw like rabbits.  Right. My daughter had rabbits at one point and there's definitely something to making them  have babies for sure. Receptive, yeah. Uh-huh. Yes. Yes. And it's like the female, if she doesn't like the male, it's not happening.  No, she has all the say as she should. 18:01 um But yeah, we have chickens, they're super easy as long as you have a coop and you have a source of food for them and a source of water for them. They do great. Rabbits are kind of touchy, finicky, fragile. And that's pretty much the only thing we've tried. And that's mostly because we don't have any land for big animals to graze.  We have three acres, it would not work. uh 18:28 Well, chickens are a good start. mean, where we are chickens, the worst part of, or the worst struggle, I guess, with having chickens are the raccoons because we have a lot of raccoons. But besides that, chickens are, like they say, the gateway animal. You're getting with the chickens and then next thing you know, you want this and you want that too. Where's the goat? Where's the sheep? Where's the cow? Yeah, we have barn cats. We have a dog. We have chickens. I think we're full up on critters for where we can handle it. That's good. 18:57 But again, I have so much respect for people who raise large animals because you've got to be brave, I think. You've got to do a lot of research. You've got to be healthy and strong because just because those jerseys love you doesn't mean that they're going to move when you want them to move. So you got to kind of nudge them, right? Right. It's physically demanding. mean, there's definitely that. And there's, mean, it can be dangerous. I have not had the cow hold the jerseys hurt me. 19:27 not on purpose anyway. I sometimes they like, you know, knock it over by accident or whatever, but yeah, if you're dealing with large animals, some of you might get charged by the bull bull and that has happened. Ironically, it was my beak bull, not even my jersey bull, yeah, these things happen and they're hard to keep in. know, if they get out and you know, if a bull bull figures out he can walk through the fence, he's walking through the fence every time. So there's definitely challenges to it. There's definitely challenges and where we live, also have... 19:55 you know, a way out the boondocks. So finding a veterinarian to come out can also be a challenge. So that, guess that eventually just forced me to learn to do a lot of things myself.  Which is probably good because then you don't have to pay the vet bills if you are skilled enough to do it yourself. True, Yes, yes. I mean, initially my hands were shaking, you know, if I needed to like set an ITV or something, because I had no idea what I was doing. But you know, after so many times you figure it out and you just know that, you know, this is you have to do because that's not available. 20:24 You know, a lot of times they're just not available.  Yep. And sometimes,  I've actually heard a couple stories like this,  sometimes you may know something that the doesn't know because you learned it from somebody who learned it from their grandpa or their great grandpa a long time ago.  Right. And that is another thing because I have a couple vets, but the  one I have, I literally um felt that  he had no experience with dairy cows. So if that had a problem, there was no 20:52 There was no use asking him because he didn't know. And it's not like I'm not shaming the vet, but he just had no experience with the dairy cows. He just had no idea.  Absolutely. And that's kind of, this is going to sound funny.  It's kind of fun that you have the skills to handle some of the things yourself.  You must feel a great sense of pride in that. Well, it's taken blood, and tears in a lot of years, but I do, I do. And which is why I guess, um 21:22 I like to share that, you know, knowledge because I like to, I feel like it took me a lot of trouble and pain to learn it.  And  I would like to make that available to other people who want to learn so they don't have to learn the hard way and know the way I did.  Which leads me to the last part of my question for you.  I see on your Facebook description. says we also offer mentoring to family cow owners on school, S-K-O-O-L,  at Homestead Family Cow. So tell me about that. 21:51 Sure, that's actually a little more recent. The school platform is actually a more recent venture. I've been mentoring, kind of like, cow people for, well, a lot of years. I guess for a lot of years. just like on Facebook groups or whatever, I would give advice if I could. But more recently, I started the platform on school. So that way, felt like if I'm making educational content, I can keep it all neatly in one spot. 22:20 so it's not like spread out over the internet. So that way I can make educational videos and put them all on the platform. And then if people want to join the platform, they can read through or listen through the videos and the educational material on there. And they can also ask questions and hopefully we will eventually be able to do like Q &A sessions to help people learning about family cows. 22:45 I guess back in the day, grandma and grandpa's, you a of people's grandparents knew these things, it's kind of disappeared for a while. But now there's a whole group of people or a whole bunch of people who is trying to get back into the family cow thing, but they're starting from scratch. So I think it would be great for them to have access to a lot of material where they can learn how to do it. Yes. And the school platform is fairly new, right? It's only been out for a year or so. 23:16 It's been a few years, I think. yes, it's not that old at all. Like I said, my group or my community school is pretty recent too. I just wanted something where I can  put all my educational content in one spot and keep it easy to maintain.  Well, thank you for doing that as well, because not everybody has the patience to teach. I don't. I'm terrible at it. I have a hard time with it. 23:41 That's why I chose to do a podcast because I know a little bit. I like talking about what I know. like talking with you guys about what you know. And then people just learn from the conversation. Right. Right. So if I wanted to find Homestead Family Cow on school, do I just go to school.com and type in Homestead Family Right. If you search it in the search bar, it should show right up. If you put in Homestead Family Cow, it should show right up in the search bar. And there's a picture with a banner. I guess it's my face with a cow. 24:10 So it should  pop right up.  Okay,  I'll put the link in the show notes if I find it. If I can't find it for some reason, would you message it to me? Sure, sure. can definitely do that. I appreciate that. Oh yeah, I want to make it easy for people to find you because I know there's a lot of young people  coming up  or stepping into the role that their parents that have aged out or the grandparents that have aged out had. 24:40 and they're new. mean, if  it's a family business, they may know a little bit, but I'm sure they don't know everything.  Right. And most of the people that I have mentored over the year uh who are not coming out of a family business, they were coming in first generation, know, trying to get  in and starting from scratch. Yeah. And it's so much easier when you have a mentor or a friend 25:07 Or I don't know, a complete stranger you met at the county fair. Sure. got talking and they were like, I can help. Right. I totally agree. mean, back when I started out, the internet didn't exist. You know, and I was like, we're getting books from the library and I made a lot of mistakes along the way. And I was also quite young, but I made a lot of mistakes along the way. like, I like to help people not, you know, make those mistakes. If I, if I had this information at, you know, at my fingertips, I would have changed a lot of things. 25:38 I always joke that if I had had access to the internet when I was 15, I would probably rule the world by now because I was a bookworm and a word nerd. Sure. Sure. And I spent a lot of time with my nose in books. Can you imagine me at 15 with access to Google? I would have been the biggest knowledge sponge on earth. I imagine that. Yeah, I look at my kids, my oldest daughter, I mean, my oldest kids are adults, but 26:07 I look at them and I'm like, oh my goodness, know, they just have a head start on knowledge, you know, and just this information that I had, you know, from an encyclopedia. Oh, yes. And I'm going to step out on a limb here that I don't know if I'm supposed to step out on, but I'm going to do it anyway. I was talking to my daughter the other day. She's 36. She's married and her husband is into guns and he likes to go to the range and target practice. And he's very curious about all the different kinds of guns. 26:38 And she has learned to shoot with him. And she called me, she called me the other day and she said, I got a question. And I said, what is it? And she said, what do you think of this idea? And she said, you know how women aren't necessarily brought up to handle firearms? And I said, well, they didn't used to be. I said there, there are more now. And she said, well, she said, I've been learning a lot over the last couple of years. And I said, yes.  She said, 27:08 I have a TikTok account and I was like, yes. She said, I think I want to do some, some TikToks about gun safety and gun culture and  gun stuff as it were. Sure. And, and my daughter is gorgeous. She's five foot nine. She has the most beautiful face  and she just is so  passionate about helping people.  Sure. So, so she said, 27:34 She said, do you think that people would want to watch these TikTok videos if I do them? I said, well, you'll probably know within five TikTok posts, whether people are interested or not. So she's talking about doing that. And that's, you know, it's a little aside. Yeah. think it's great. I think that's great. It's a little aside from my topic on my podcast here, but 28:01 I think that women especially these days have so many avenues open to them to either teach  or have a career that they love that they can just throw their whole selves into compared to how it used to be. Sure. And I think that's great that we have these opportunities, you know, and it's that's her passion and teaching people about, you know, gun safety. think that's great because 28:27 For a lot of people, they don't know anything about safety and that just makes it more dangerous than it should be. And if that's her passion and she can teach about it, I think that's great. think sharing our passion is really, I mean, that gives meaning to the life, right? And I guess that's why I do what I do. I not only love my dairy cows and I love milking, but I also love sharing about them and teaching about them. Yes, absolutely. 28:56 I am so glad that you do and I'm going to die on this hill.  Without people like you, the industry might die and we don't want the industry to die if we like drinking milk and we like eating burgers and steaks.  Right, right. And I'm grateful for the people I learned from, you know, because  we all need someone to teach us some things. And I am grateful for the people I learned from and I hope to pass that forward. 29:25 Good. Please keep doing it  and do me a favor. Smooch those cows for me because I don't know anybody with jerseys right now.  Most certainly I will.  All right. So where can people find you? um As in online or as... Okay. So I mean, besides for my Facebook page, which is Zebulon Heritage Farm, I also have a website, which is EvalonHeritageFarm.com. 29:55 I guess  my farm is listed on  multiple raw milk, I guess databases or  places where you find raw milk. So the farm is listed in multiple places there too.  And then like I said, my school uh community, which is Homestead Family Cow, that is for learning about family cows  that is on the school platform. Fantastic.  Ronel, I so appreciate your time. 30:24 And I say this to everybody who takes the time to talk to me.  I know you guys are busy.  You are being productive. You are helping in the world. So thank you for sharing your time with me and my audience. Sure, no problem. Thank you so much for having me here. I enjoyed talking to you. Good. As always, people can find me at AtinyHomesteadPodcast.com.  Ronel, I hope you have a great rest of your day. Thank you. You too,