Carrying the Fire Podcast

In this episode of the Carrying the Fire podcast, retired USFS Smokejumper and Forest Management Officer (FMO) Timo Rova joins the show from northern Minnesota to share hard-earned wisdom on wildland firefighting, forest ecology, and living off the land in the Boundary Waters region. Timo dives deep into the fire-dependent ecosystems of the North Woods, explaining how a century of fire suppression and native spruce budworm outbreaks have set the stage for modern catastrophic blazes. He explains the differences in firefighting tactics in the diverse American forests and grasslands, and describes his challenges in transitioning from an adrenaline-charged smokejumper with an extraordinary brother-and sisterhood of skilled firefighters to navigating an ill-funded and increasingly risk averse US Forest Service in his late career.  The conversation also explores traditional skills from gathering wild rice and hunting from a canoe to foraging and harvesting medicinals like chaga. Come join us for a wide-ranging and dynamic conversation that ranges into the future of rural economies, foreign mining interests in the Boundary Waters, and the vital importance of mentoring the next generation in outdoor skills and self-reliance. Book List The Falcon by John Tanner Singing Wilderness by Sigurd Olson  Ashley Book of Knots by Clifford Ashley The Shipping News by Annie Proulx - A novel that was highly inspired by the Ashley Book of Knots. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join us for a conversation about a revolutionary new movement based deeply in land and water and humanity, all centering on America’s largest National Forest, the Tongass.   Central to the discussion is the region's $41 million subsistence economy. Wild salmon, Sitka black-tailed deer, and a deep-rooted tradition of local food-sharing serve as the economic and cultural lifeblood of Southeast Alaskan communities. Dihle highlights the vital difference between ancient old-growth forests and secondary growth, detailing how historic clear-cutting triggers "stem exclusion", a dense regrowth phase where tightly packed trees block sunlight, eliminate understory forage, and leave wildlife vulnerable during harsh winters without mature canopy shelter. The conversation turns to timber policy, taxpayer subsidies, and the dangerous absurdity of overturning the Roadless Rule. The Tongass National forest is Exhibit A for the damage that taxpayer-subsidized corporate logging for export can do to American lands. Rather than relying on corporate-scale, clear-cut logging that exports raw logs and employs very few local workers, Herring and Dihle examine the path toward restoration forestry, expanded local lumber mill capacity, and direct collaboration with Indigenous tribes and local communities. The commercial fishing industry, which is entirely dependent on the intact ecosystem of the Tongass, employs nine times as many local workers as does the current model of taxpayer subsidized timber harvest. Under the current model of timber harvest, most of the money flows away from local communities. We have to build a new way, one that draws on older knowledge about how to live in this intense and dynamic part of our country.  By balancing responsible timber harvest with wildlife and fisheries there is a clear path forward that creates employment, protects local food security and builds a strong economy while truly managing public lands for future generations. Booklist A Shape in the Dark: Living and Dying with Brown Bears by Bjorn Dihle Haunted Inside Passage: Ghosts, Monsters, and Mystery on Alaska's Coast by Bjorn Dihle "The Mad Trapper" article in Outdoor Life – A piece written by Bjorn Dihle about the infamous Mad Trapper of Rat River. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Carrying the Fire, Hal Herring sits down with Kyle Lybarger, founder of the Native Habitat Project, to talk about prescribed fire, forgotten landscapes, and the secret plant world hiding in plain sight. From a controlled burn that turned into an all-out firefighting effort to rediscovering "extirpated" native plants right in his own backyard, Kyle shares how curiosity, grit, and personal loss shaped his relationship with the southern outdoors. We dive into the concept of "plant blindness," trace 19th-century bison licks across North Alabama, explore how plants - and one of the richest grassland complexes in the world -  co-evolved with fire, and discuss why preserving and restoring these vibrant ecosystems is critical for the health and well-being of the next generations. Books & Historical Literature Mentioned Early Settlers of Alabama by James Edmonds Saunders Let Us Now Praise Famous Gullies: Providence Canyon and the Soils of the South by Paul S. Sutter Smarter Every Day YouTube Channel with Destin Sandlin Ep. 331: Backwoods University - Bison East of The Mississippi with Lake Pickle, featuring Jeremy French.  Dwayne Estes with Southeastern Grasslands Institute (SGI) Videos and Podcast Carrying the Fire Episode 3 with Jeremy French and Dwayne Estes Southeastern Grasslands Institute YouTube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this unfiltered episode of Carrying the Fire, host Hal Herring joins environmental philosopher and author Derrick Jensen for a deep, 30-year retrospective on Jensen’s life, work, and uncompromising ecological and social analysis. The realities discussed here are uncomfortable ones: the foundational truth of a culture utterly addicted to growth on a finite planet, and the degradation of both truth and human dignity that such an addiction requires. In Carrying the Fire, we sometimes get a little scorched. This episode is not for every listener- Jensen’s vast body of work is not created to reassure or to console but to provoke, to confront, and to, in challenging us, offer us a new way of seeing the path forward. Because there is a path forward- it lies in remembering our beautiful place here on this planet, and the real power of humanity, to act not with callow hubris and disdain, but on the side of infinite, vibrant life. Works by Derrick Jensen Visit Derrick’s website to explore his entire breadth of work - https://derrickjensen.org/work/books-dvds-cds/ A Language Older Than Words – Jensen's breakthrough 2000 book exploring deep ecology, interpersonal trauma, and societal violence. The Myth of Human Supremacy – A text heavily praised by Hal Herring for its cogent takedown of anthropocentrism. Endgame (Volume 1 & Volume 2) – Jensen's foundational work focusing on the inherent unsustainability of civilization. Listening to the Land: Conversations about Nature, Culture, and Eros – Jensen's early book composed of environmental interviews. Dreams – Mentioned by Jensen during a critique of his own past writing regarding how nature "fights back." Unnamed Marijuana Growing Guide – Jensen mentions having written a book about his 15 years of experience growing cannabis in containers. Books by Other Authors Ishmael by Daniel Quinn  The Dream of the Earth by Father Thomas Berry War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning by Chris Hedges The Light Eaters: How the Unseen World of Plant Intelligence Offers a New Understanding of Life on Earth by Zoë Schlanger  Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey The Fallacy of Wildlife Conservation by John Livingston Against the Grain: How Agriculture Hijacked Civilization by Richard "Dick" Manning Last Stand: Logging, Journalism, and the Case for Humility by Richard "Dick" Manning  The Natural Alien: Humankind and Environment by Neil Evernden Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future by Bill McKibben  My Stroke of Insight by Jill Bolte Taylor Industrial Society and Its Future (The Unabomber Manifesto) by Ted Kaczynski Poetry, Essays, Films & Media "Letter to Oskar Pollak" (1904) by Franz Kafka  In Memoriam A.H.H. by Alfred, Lord Tennyson American Psychosis (2017) – A documentary short featuring Chris Hedges and directed by Amanda Zackem. The Sun Magazine – The independent literary magazine edited by Sy Safransky where both Herring and Jensen published interviews early in their careers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Carrying the Fire, host Hal Herring sits down with New Orleans-based journalist and author Boyce Upholt. Boyce is the author of The Great River: The Making and Unmaking of the Mississippi,  which Amazon calls, “Rich and powerful… a startling account of what happens when we try to fight against nature instead of acknowledging and embracing its power―a lesson that is all too relevant in our rapidly changing world.” While teaching school in the Mississippi Delta, Boyce took an assignment to write a magazine story about legendary guide and riverman John Ruskey. Ruskey took Boyce into a world he had not imagined- hidden behind the levees, lost beyond the green thickets that wall off the river. “I was entranced by the landscape I found there: a wilderness, threading through the heart of the nation. I began to write more stories about the Mississippi, in part just for the excuse to get back out there.” He would eventually paddle the river from St. Louis to the Gulf of Mexico and spend years collecting the stories and history that became The Great River.  Boyce Upholt also is the co-founder and editor of the bi-annual magazine Southlands “A magazine about the wild South, in all its forms. Take the low road.”  He lives in New Orleans with his wife and new baby.  This interview explores the deep, tangled history of the continent's most legendary waterway, tracking the river from its ancient, indigenous past to its highly engineered, precarious present. Hal and Boyce discuss the hubris of trying to "freeze time" on a dynamic river, the dark environmental and social legacies of the Delta's plantation economy, and what it truly means to "think like a watershed." Boyce shares the inspiration behind his latest venture, Southlands magazine, a new print publication dedicated to honoring the nature, outdoor culture, and rich literary heritage of the American South. Books & Magazines The Great River: The Making and Unmaking of the Mississippi by Boyce Upholt A Natural History of Empty Lots: Field Notes from Urban Edgelands, Back Alleys, and Other Wild Places by Christopher Brown  Meant to Be Wild: The Struggle to Save Endangered Species through Captive Breeding by Jan DeBlieu Pilgrim at Tinker Creek by Annie Dillard Rising Tide: The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 and How It Changed America by John M. Barry Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West by Hampton Sides Against the Machine: On the Unmaking of Humanity by Paul Kingsnorth Against the Grain: How Agriculture Hijacked Civilization by Richard Manning Against the Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States by James C. Scott The Bear by William Faulkner Southlands – Boyce Upholt’s twice-yearly print magazine focused on nature, outdoors, and how the people of the South relate to the natural world. The Bitter Southerner – The digital publication where Upholt published his very first profile piece on canoeing guide John Ruskey. Mountain Gazette – Legacy outdoor print magazines referenced as regional benchmarks that Southlands looks to complement. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

"Simplicity is extinction. The key to resiliency is biodiversity—saving enough species so that whatever happens next, we're okay." — Jeremy French, SGI Ecological Restoration Chief We’ve all heard the old myth: before European settlement, a squirrel could travel from the Atlantic coast to the Mississippi River without ever touching the ground. But it wasn’t true. From the wiregrass prairies of the coastal plain to the Barrens of Kentucky and all parts between and beyond, the American Southeast was a dramatically complex mosaic of forests, grasslands, savannahs and grazing-and-fire dependent wetlands, spiderwebbed with bison and human throughways, infinitely rich and complex, one of the most biodiverse places on earth. Most of it was long gone before it could even be recorded, known only from place names on old maps or the faded accounts of the Long Hunters like Daniel Boone or Uriah Stone.        In this episode of Carrying the Fire, host Hal Herring sits down in central Tennessee with Dwyane Estes (Co-founder and Executive Director) and Jeremy French (Ecological Restoration Chief) of the Southeastern Grasslands Institute (SGI). Together, they dig into the wild, unique and mostly forgotten history of the Southern grassland biome, a global biodiversity hotspot hiding in plain sight. Duane and Jeremy share their deeply personal origin stories, mapping out how childhoods shaped by poverty and isolation led them to seek shelter and solace in a profound immersion in the natural world. The life-force they discovered there saved them - and inspired in them a fierce determination to repay the gift with a hyper-focus on restoring one of the most beleaguered, complex and vibrant ecosystems on earth- the southern prairies and savannahs. From tracking the deep evolutionary memory of southeastern bison to launching a massive conservation movement across 17 states, this conversation is a masterclass in dreaming big, working hard, and looking at a landscape with entirely new eyes. Booklist, Podcasts, and Other Works Mentioned Consilience: The Unity of Knowledge by E.O. Wilson The Long Hunt: Death of the Buffalo East of the Mississippi by Ted Franklin Belue  A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold Indian Harvest by Jannette May Lucas Backcountry University (Episode 1)  60 Minutes – The CBS news program, specifically a segment highlighting the economic hardships faced by soybean farmers in West Tennessee. The STRIPS Program – An agricultural research initiative out of Iowa State University focusing on integrating prairie filter strips into row-crop fields to mitigate soil erosion and water runoff. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

"We thrill to a little bit of wild in our life... and wolves really are the epitome of wild." - Diane Boyd In this episode of Carrying the Fire Podcast, host Hal Herring sits down with legendary wildlife biologist and researcher Diane Boyd, author of A Woman Among Wolves: My Journey Through 40 Years of Wolf Recovery. Diane Boyd is a pioneer in wolf research, having spent over four decades studying wolf ecology, behavior, and human tolerance in the American West and Midwest. Her book, A Woman Among Wolves, documents her unprecedented life on the frontlines of wildlife recovery. Decades before federal reintroductions in Yellowstone and Idaho became a lightning rod for the modern culture wars, Diane was on the ground in northwest Montana, living off-grid in a rustic cabin at the Canadian border. At just 24 years old, she immersed herself in the lives of the true pioneers—the native, native-born dispersal wolves that traversed hundreds of miles from Canada to reclaim their ancient territory on their own terms. Books and Other Works Mentioned A Woman Among Wolves: My Journey Through 40 Years of Wolf Recovery - Diane Boyd Of Wolves and Men - Barry Lopez Against the Grain - Richard Manning A Sand County Almanac - Aldo Leopold The Lewis and Clark JournalsThe Bolle Reports (The Bolle Committee Reports) Grimms' Fairy Tales In Memoriam - Alfred Lord Tennyson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Peter Stark is an explorer, journalist and adventurer who has become one of America's foremost writers of historical nonfiction. From his mind-blowing stories of the intersection of adventure and disaster,  Last Breath: Cautionary Tales from the Limits of Human Endurance, to his best-seller Astoria, an account the ruthless and bloody attempt to establish the fur trading post at the mouth of the Columbia River,  Stark is a writer working at the very top of his game. Join Hal and Peter as they discuss his new book, The Lost Cities of El Norte: Coronado's Quest, the Unconquered West, and the Birth of American Indian Resistance. It's a freewheeling conversation with detours into life, work, and how the inescapable tides of history are sweeping us all along, whether we know it or not.  Books by Peter Stark The Last Cities of El Norte: Coronado's Quest and the Unconquered West Astoria: John Jacob Astor and Thomas Jefferson's Lost Pacific Empire Gallop Toward the Sun: Tecumseh and William Henry Harrison's Struggle for the Destiny of a Nation At the Mercy of the River: An Exploration of the Luyanda River of Mozambique The Last Empty Places: A Journey Through Networkless America Nine Years Among the Indians by Herman Lehmann The Florida of the Inca by Garcilaso de la Vega Empire of the Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne The Stand by Stephen King A Land So Strange by Andrés Reséndez Meditations by Marcus Aurelius The Wake by Paul Kingsnorth The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer "Frozen Alive" (1997): A famous article by Peter Stark published in Outside magazine regarding the science of hypothermia. https://www.outsideonline.com/2152131/freezing-death Cabeza de Vaca’s Account: The primary source journals of Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca. https://eada.lib.umd.edu/text-entries/account-of-cabeza-de-vaca/ The Old North Trail: An article by Peter Stark published in the Smithsonian Magazine  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/the-old-north-trail-49911446/ Other Books & Works MentionedHistorical Journals & Articles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices