Complex Creatures

What does it mean to carry tradition without becoming a relic — in a world that's either obsessed with novelty or stuck in nostalgia?In this episode of Complex Creatures, the tables turn: Alan O.W. Barnes steps out from behind the scenes to host, putting Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons in the guest seat for a wide-ranging conversation about traditioned innovation — the language Jarrod borrows from theologian L. Gregory Jones and Andrew Hogue's Navigating the Future — and what it looks like to lead a 100-year-old congregation in Midtown Atlanta into its next century.Drawing on John Henry Newman's image of doctrine as a river, Robert Webber's Ancient-Future vision, and a memorable story about a 1980s church bus ministry, Jarrod unpacks the difference between the purpose of a tradition and the container it arrives in — and why mistaking one for the other is how communities end up worshipping at the feet of relics.Together, Alan and Jarrod explore:Why tradition and innovation are a tension, not a conflict — and how Christianity itself is a traditioned innovation of JudaismThe "spirit and purpose versus container" framework, and how it changes everything from bus ministries to worship styleHow Holy Eucharist shapes Peachtree's architecture, liturgy, and even its strategic plan — "everyone has a place, everyone is called, everyone is welcome"The elders' prayer-card tradition, and what makes a small practice life-giving for decadesHow to safeguard against idolatry of place and trend-chasing — and why most "next steps" in church growth are really keeping up with the JonesesThe cautionary tale of trying to out–North Point North PointLectio divina, holy reading of the Church Fathers, and why Augustine on Genesis still has something to say to usCarey Nieuwhof's line that "churches in love with their mission will thrive; churches in love with their method will die"What the latest Barna and Pew numbers reveal about Gen Z, young men, and the surprising rise of Latin Rite Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Pentecostal worshipWhy high-demand, high-experience churches are growing — and what that says about what people are actually hungry forThe "manosphere" as a bad answer to a good question, and why men's ministry doesn't need to be complicated to matterHow Jonathan Haidt, The Anxious Generation, and a sober-from-network-news governor of Utah point toward spiritual practices for the common goodAnd one piece of fatherly advice for Jarrod's daughter Ruby — and a message in a time capsule for Peachtree Christian Church a hundred years from nowWhether you lead a congregation, sit in a pew, or just wonder how anything good survives the relentless churn of culture, this episode is an invitation to find the kernel — the thing actually worth carrying forward — and to let the rest get dressed up however the moment requires.Hashtags: #ComplexCreaturesPodcast #JarrodLongbons #AlanOWBarnes #TraditionedInnovation #AncientFuture #PeachtreeChristianChurch #Midtown #AtlantaChurches #LGregoryJones #RobertWebber #JohnHenryNewman #HolyEucharist #LectioDivina #ChurchFathers #SpiritualFormation #GenZAndChurch #MensMinistry #JonathanHaidt #AnxiousGeneration #ChurchGrowth #FaithAndCulture #ChristianPodcast #SpiritualPracticesForTheCommonGood #RootedButNotStuck

Theology lives differently in a pulpit than it does in a lecture hall. Dr. Steven Cone — author of An Ocean Vast of Blessing and Theology from the Great Tradition — joins Jarrod to talk about preaching the great tradition to a congregation, walking with people through beginning-of-life and end-of-life moments, and the slow, on-the-job work of becoming a pastor. A conversation about how the deep wells of Christian thought meet the daily work of ministry.#ComplexCreatures #PastorTheology #HigherEdInCrisis #LincolnChristianUniversity #RestorationMovement #PastoralMinistry #AcademicBurnout #CalledToPreach #FromProfessorToPastor #TheologyFromTheGreatTradition #ChurchOfChrist #FaithAndVocation #SeminaryLife #PastoralCare #ChristianLeadership

What if the church's discipleship problem isn't new — and the answer has been hiding in plain sight for two thousand years?In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons sits down with theologian and educator Dr. Alex Fogleman — Associate Dean for Special Programs and Assistant Professor of Theology at Trinity Anglican Seminary, founding director of the Catechesis Institute, and director of the Catechesis Task Force for the Anglican Church in North America — to explore his new book Making Disciples: Catechesis in History, Theology, and Practice (Eerdmans, 2025).Catechesis — from the Greek katēcheō, meaning to instruct or resound — isn't just a category of religious education. It's a whole way of forming people into a way of life. Not just knowing, but becoming. And in a world where nominal Christianity is everywhere but deep formation is rare, Alex argues this ancient practice is exactly what the church needs to recover.Together, Jarrod and Alex explore:Why catechesis is about becoming, not just knowing — and what we lose when we treat faith as information transferHow secularized contexts (like Vancouver, BC, where only 2% attend church) are actually forcing the church back to something essentialWhat the early church got right about the "bridge" between pagan and Christian culture — and how it applies todayWhy AI might be able to teach content, but will never be able to catechizeThe hearth versus central air — why formation is always relational, never merely digitalWhat it would look like for every church to take catechesis as seriously as worshipAlex's one-sentence definition of his own book says it all: catechesis is the basic but comprehensive instruction in what Christians believe, hope, and love.That phrase alone is worth the conversation.#ComplexCreaturesPodcast #AlexFogleman #MakingDisciples #Catechesis #SpiritualFormation #EarlyChurch #ChurchFathers #Discipleship #FaithAndLearning #TrinityAnglicanSeminary #ChristianPodcast #TheologyAndLife #RootedAndRenewed #AncientFaithNewLife #AnglicansOfInstagram

What if creativity isn't just something artists do — but something all of us are called to?In this special episode of Complex Creatures, Alan Barnes turns the tables and interviews Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons about a subject close to both of their hearts: creativity as a spiritual posture. Rooted in the conviction that we bear the image of a creative God, the conversation ranges from Jarrod's early-morning writing practice to the theology of Fred Rogers, from the flow state to the hard, unglamorous discipline of showing up before the ideas arrive.Together, Alan and Jarrod explore:What Jarrod has been writing — and why Mr. Rogers keeps showing up in a book about communicating the sacredHow the practices of writing, drawing, and making can become genuine forms of prayerThe flow state: what it is, where it comes from, and how to stop being precious about itWhy creativity requires a willingness to be wrong — and how that's actually a theological virtueThe difference between journaling and writing, and why it matters more than you thinkWhat our age of anxiety, algorithms, and authenticity demands of people who try to communicate sacred ideasWhether you make things for a living, dabble on weekends, or have convinced yourself you're "not creative," this episode is an invitation to reconsider — and maybe to get up at four in the morning and find out what's waiting for you there.Recommended reading: Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott · Patience with God by Tomáš Halík · Surprised by Jesus Again by Jason Byassee#ComplexCreaturesPodcast #CreativityAndFaith #SpiritualPractice #MadeToMake #ImageOfGod #FlowState #WritingAsSpiritualPractice #FredRogers #SacredCommunication #ChristianCreativity #ArtAndFaith #SpiritualFormation #ChristianPodcast #TheologyAndLife #PeachtreeChristianChurch

What does it mean to leave everything behind — your country, your career plans, your language — and build a life somewhere else? And what happens when that life is suddenly torn away?In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons sits down with his friend Jonathan "Boo" Powell — Executive Director of the Georgia Tech Christian Campus Fellowship (CCF) and a former missionary who spent 22 years in Berdyansk, southeastern Ukraine, before the war with Russia forced him and his family home.Boo's story is one of radical rootedness and repeated uprooting — from a Georgia Tech student who expected a career in business, to a missionary learning Russian in an immersive crash course with an unlikely teacher, to a man returning to America without a credit score and rediscovering his calling right back where it started.Together, Jarrod and Boo explore:How a mission trip to Juárez, Mexico sparked a life-changing callThe hard, beautiful years of learning language, culture, and belonging in a foreign landWhat struggling Ukrainian villages taught them about the raw, unadorned gospelThe grief of exile — and the unexpected renewal that followedHow God was already at work before the missionaries arrivedWhat a generation of Georgia Tech students is teaching him about faith, mission, and fireThis is a conversation about the courage it takes to follow a calling — and the grace it takes to follow it again."I look up to the hills. Where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord." — Psalm 121#ComplexCreaturesPodcast #MissionaryLife #UkraineMission #RootedAndRenewed #CampusMinistry #GeorgiaTech #GTCCF #FaithAndCalling #ChristianMission #CollegeMinistry #SpiritualFormation #CalledToGo #ChristianPodcast #FaithInAction #HomeComing

What would happen if we stopped reading the Bible alone—and started reading it with two thousand years of saints, mystics, and theologians by our side?In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons sits down with writer, pastor, and theologian Jason Byassee to explore his book Surprised by Jesus Again: Reading the Bible in Communion with the Saints. From the early church fathers to the Song of Solomon, from Mary's role as the first theologian to the dangerous comfort of hiding from God in your own church—this conversation is rich, playful, and profoundly challenging.Together, Jarrod and Jason explore:Why being "surprised" by Jesus requires letting go of what we think we already knowThe difference between reading Scripture for information and reading it for transformationHow God flirts, lures, and woos us through Scripture—and why that's not as strange as it soundsThe allegorical imagination of the early Church, and what Protestants lose when we ignore itThe global future of Christianity—from Indonesia to South Sudan—and what it means for the Church in the WestWhere hope lives in a world that's given up on itWhether you're a lifelong churchgoer, a curious skeptic, or someone who finds the Bible more complicated than inspiring, this conversation offers a way back in—rooted in the ancient, renewed for today.#ComplexCreaturesPodcast #SurprisedByJesusAgain #JasonByassee #BibleAndTradition #ChurchFathers #SpiritualFormation #FaithInASecularAge #RootedAndRenewed #ScriptureAndSaints #ChristianTheology #ReadingTheBible #AncientFaith #ChristianPodcast #TheologyAndLife #PeachtreeChristianChurch

“The Church isn’t dying—the voluntary association is.”What happens when the institutions that once carried faith begin to collapse?In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons reflects on church decline, secularity, and the unraveling of America’s voluntary association culture. Rather than lamenting loss, he invites listeners to imagine the Church not as an institution to be maintained, but as a movement shaped by shared practices, shared mission, and shared life.At the center of this vision is the Eucharist—not merely as ritual, but as a social and theological force that binds people together across difference, memory, and decline. This conversation explores loneliness, authenticity, belonging, and what it might mean for the Church to take its table into the world.A thoughtful reflection for anyone wrestling with faith, community, and what comes next.#ComplexCreatures#FaithInASeularAge#ChurchAndCulture#ChristianPodcast#EucharisticImagination#SpiritualCommunity#FaithAfterInstitutions#TheologyAndLife

Is the Enneagram just a personality test—or could it be a pathway to deeper faith?In this rich and heartfelt episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons speaks with Rev. Jamie Butcher—Presbyterian minister and certified Enneagram coach—about how this ancient tool offers more than labels. Together, they explore how the Enneagram can lead us from self-protection to self-giving, from pigeonholing to spiritual compassion, and into the very presence of God.Topics include:The Enneagram as a contemplative Christian practiceWhy Christians are drawn to typologies—and how to avoid the pitfallsHow compassion begins with self-understandingPrayer postures, personality awareness, and spiritual growthUsing the Enneagram in pastoral care, spiritual direction, and community lifeWhether you're new to the Enneagram or a longtime student, this conversation invites you to move beyond “what number are you?” into a deeper life of reflection, grace, and love.#ComplexCreaturesPodcast #EnneagramAndFaith #SpiritualFormation#ChristianContemplation #JamieButcher #EnneagramWisdom#BelovedNotBoxed #FaithAndPersonality #CompassionateLeadership#SpiritualDirection #TemplarPath #ChristianPodcast

In this illuminating conversation, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons sits down with psychology professor and confessional Lutheran Dr. Jonathan Stadler to explore the timely intersection of faith, psychology, masculinity, and meaning. From behavioral neuroscience to the cultural impact of Jordan Peterson, from Stoicism and positive psychology to the beauty of carrying the fire in a broken world, this episode dives deep into the hopes and wounds of modern men—and how the Christian tradition can offer both healing and purpose.Together, they explore:The psychological power of gratitude, humility, and relational livingThe role of The Road and apocalypse parenting in Christian manhoodWhy Gen Z is gravitating toward traditionThe difference between faith formation and spiritual self-helpIf you're navigating your own growth, longing for wholeness, or wondering what it means to be a man of faith in today’s world—this episode offers both challenge and comfort.#ComplexCreaturesPodcast #FaithAndPsychology #ChristianMen#MentalHealthAndFaith #JonathanStadler #MasculinityCrisis#PositivePsychology #SpiritualFormation #JordanPeterson#Stoicism #TheRoad #CarryTheFire #ChristianPodcast

In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons welcomes Christi Heidt, Program Director at Peachtree Christian Health, for a powerful conversation on aging, dementia, and the sacred work of caregiving. Together, they explore what it means to hold memories for those who can no longer recall them, how community care fosters dignity and flourishing, and why humility and patience are essential as we face the realities of decline. Whether you’re a caregiver, a loved one, or someone seeking hope in the face of loss, this episode offers compassion, wisdom, and inspiration for the journey.#ComplexCreaturesPodcast #SpiritualityAndCare #CognitiveHealth #AgingWithDignity #Caregiving #FaithAndCommunity #PeachtreeChristianHealth #MemoryAndHope

On this powerful episode of Complex Creatures, host Jarrod welcomes Tim Price—musician, recovery minister, and founder of Faith, Recovery, and Music. With stories shaped by addiction, grace, and gritty honesty, Tim shares how the 12 Steps and Christian faith saved his life and continue to fuel his ministry. From early trauma to building community in a reimagined flour mill, Tim’s testimony is as raw as it is redemptive. Whether you’re in recovery or simply seeking spiritual depth, this conversation offers wisdom, warmth, and hope.#ComplexCreaturesPodcast #FaithRecoveryMusic #12Steps #AddictionRecovery #SpiritualAwakening #RecoveryJourney #ChristianRecovery #MentalHealthAwareness #TimPrice #HealingThroughFaith #MusicAndMinistry #SobrietyStories #AARecovery #LifeRecoveryBible #HopeAndHealing

In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Jarrod Longbons sits down with journalist and author Rebecca McCarthy to discuss her memoir-biography Norman Maclean: A Life of Letters and Rivers. What unfolds is a deep and personal conversation about storytelling, grief, spiritual mystery, and the search for meaning. From A River Runs Through It to personal memories of Hyde Park winters and crockpot stews, this episode dives into the beauty and tragedy of being human.For anyone drawn to faith, writing, or the mystery of others—you’ll find something sacred here.#ProjectUnity #ThatTheyMayBeOne #JesusPrayer #ChristianUnity #HeartOfGod #PeachtreeChristianChurch #RootedAndRenewed #DisciplesOfChrist #WorshipPodcast #FaithFormation #SpiritualGrowth #ChurchInAtlanta

A conversation with Rachel Hastings about her spiritual journey.

Jarrod discusses transplantation and spirituality with Beth Lehman. https://bethlehmanliver.com

A Conversation with Lori Tapia

Join Jarrod and Alan as they discuss Ash Wednesday history and practice.

A conversation with Pastor Eric Thomas of St Peter Missionary Baptist Church.

An interview with Gregory S. Berns Professor of Psychology at Emory University.

An interview with Willie and Megan Huston.

In seminary, I studied big ideas like ontology and ethics, but it wasn’t until studying Kierkegaard’s philosophy that I grasped life’s urgency: we’re finite—what will you do with your time? J. Aaron Simmons is a Professor of Philosophy, a widely published author, a popular speaker, and also a trout fisherman and mountain biker. Specializing in philosophy of religion and political philosophy, Simmons is the former President of the Søren Kierkegaard Society (USA). Simmons is an active public philosopher and hosts the YouTube channel, "Philosophy for Where We Find Ourselves." Please connect with him at jaaronsimmons.com

In this episode Jarrod and Alan discuss the way the calendar can be used as a spiritual tool.

Jennifer Allen Craft (PhD, University of St. Andrews) is associate professor of humanities and theology at Point University in West Point, Georgia, where she teaches courses in theology, philosophy, and the arts. Her work has been featured on Transpositions and in Contemporary Art and the Church: A Conversation Between Two Worlds.

Today Jarrod and Alan discuss Tara Brach's ideas about taking a moment to reflect.

Have you ever had financial counseling? At 21, I met with a financial advisor who had me track every penny I spent for a month. This taught me what I valued and shaped my future goals. Similarly, analyzing your time can reveal what truly matters to you and how to align your life with virtues or spiritual goals. Today, Rabbi Peter Berg, a thought leader on Jewish identity and social justice, joins us to discuss spirituality and tikkun olam—repairing the world—a value central to his work and faith. Peter Berg became the fifth senior rabbi of The Temple, A Jewish Synagogue in Atlanta, GA. He is thrilled to serve this diverse and multi-generational congregation as a spiritual leader. Rabbi Berg is passionate about Jewish learning and meaningful worship, and he is an advocate for social change. Peter references this book in the episode: Everyday Holiness: The Jewish Spiritual Path to Mussar, by Alan Morinis https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590306090/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1590306090&linkCode=as2&tag=mussarinstitu-20&linkId=e384f6991160a0dc8e5dad5767bbf2de

This week Jarrod discusses the concept of a Digital Sabbath. What can it mean to take a break from technology?

In this episode Alan completes his interview with Jarrod about his experience of receiving a liver transplant.

In 2022 Jarrod nearly died from liver failure. In October 2023 he received a liver transplant and is healthy today. In the next couple of episodes Alan interviews him about this experience and what it meant for him physically and spiritually to go through the experience.

In this episode Jarrod discusses the spiritual tool of detachment. #spirituality #common #good #community #selfhelp

In this episode Jarrod discusses the spiritual tool of silence.

Jarrod and Alan discuss the idea behind the Daily Examine as a spiritual tool.

Jarrod discusses using celebration, festivity and leisure as a spiritual tool. Alan is baffled because he has no concept of the idea.

Join Jarrod and Alan as they discuss the stories and narratives we tell ourselves that form us.

Join Jarrod and Alan as they discuss ways to use intentional communities as a spiritual tool for building relationships.

Jarrod discusses Beau's new book: "Baptizing America: How Mainline Protestants Helped Build Christian Nationalism" available from Chalice Press.

Spiritual tools to contend with assumptions about ourselves and others.

Concluding their thoughts about Spooky Season, Alan and Jarrod discuss monsters and how to use them as a spiritual tool to examine not only our fears, but also complex issues in society.

In this opening episode, Jarrod and Alan discuss the big themes of the podcast as a starting point for future discussions.

We interrupt our regular podcasting schedule to bring you this episode about Spooky Season.

Introduction to Complex Creatures: Exploring Spirituality and the common good.