Computer Says Maybe

In Memphis, companies don't come in to invest in the city. They come in to extract from its people and its land, no matter how high the human cost. That's exactly what xAI did when they decided to build one of the largest data centers in South Memphis, regardless of what it meant for the wellbeing of the people already living there.More like this: The Collective Fight for Our Humanity - REAL ResistanceIn this episode, KeShaun Pearson, Executive Director of Memphis Community Against Pollution (MCAP), connects this fight to a much longer history of disinvestment and oppression in South Memphis— one that existed long before xAI showed up and shaped what it actually means to become a "sacrifice zone." But KeShaun also knows that when you're fighting to take something down, you have to build something better in its place. He shares his vision for what co-governance could look like between communities, cities, and corporations, and what it would take for a company that says it's here to give something back to actually mean it.Further reading & resources:Livestream w/ Alix Dunn: The Battle for MemphisElon Musk’s Memphis AI empire is the epicenter of the data center backlash — CNBCxAI built an illegal power plant to power its data center — Southern Environmental Law CenterxAI in Memphis — What you need to know — Memphis Community Against PollutionJoin The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about.Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

In 2013, taxi drivers were beginning to notice something unusual: unmarked, black cars were cutting them off in taxi lines and picking up their passengers. Little did these drivers know that those black cars were the start of Uber — and it wasn’t just going to destroy the taxi industry, but wage labor as we knew it.More like this: REAL Resistance — Against Automated GovernmentsIn this episode, Alix Dunn sits down with Veena Dubal, one of the leading experts on gig labor and Professor of Law at the University of California, Irvine School of Law. Veena shares with us her firsthand account of the Uberization of everything from the beginning to now. She breaks down how this seemingly-innocuous ride sharing app would lead to algorithmic wage fixing around the world and the gamblification of workers’ lives.Further reading & resources:On Algorithmic Wage Discrimination — Veena DubalAI Shouldn’t Be Setting Prices or Wages. States Need to Push Back. — Veena Dubal, 2026How artificial intelligence uncouples hard work from fair wages through ‘surveillance pay’ practices—and how to fix it — Veena Dubal, Wilneida NegrónAlgorithms of Exploitation — Human Rights WatchJoin The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about.Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Anna Bacciarelli and Shazeda Ahmed know more than anyone that there are only a handful of tech companies asserting dominance around the world by talking in high-level abstractions about what the future looks like. At REAL ML, they want to change that.More like this: REAL Resistance: Who's Behind Big Brother?This is REAL Resistance, a collection of conversations produced in collaboration with Real ML, featuring the experts and advocates who make up Real ML’s global network.In this final conversation, Real ML executive director Anna Bacciarelli and researcher Shazeda Ahmed discuss what it takes to knit together a global community that is working to resist the material harms of big tech: the powers that be want to keep any discussion about the future of AI as vague as possible — which is why the experts that attend Real ML workshops take the time to get specific about the issues.Further reading & resources:More about Real MLField-building and the epistemic culture of AI safety by Shazeda Ahmed et alA 2024 profile on Frantz Fanon — The GuardianComputer-vision research powers surveillance technology, by Abeba Birhane, Ria Kalluri, et al — Nature Magazine June 2025**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Mariel Garcia-Montes and Crofton Black share their stories and investigations that uncover the backdoor deals that allow the surveillance industry to thrive under the guise of ‘security’. If you have nothing to hide, you won’t mind if we spy, right?More like this: REAL Resistance: The Global Fight Against TechnocolonialismThis is REAL Resistance, a collection of conversations produced in collaboration with Real ML, featuring the experts and advocates who make up Real ML’s global network.In this conversation, two guests from the network take us on a guided tour of the global underground surveillance tech market:Mexico is the world’s biggest importer of surveillance tech, and has a rich history of spying on citizens. Mariel Garcia-Montes briefs us on that history and what it means for Mexico nowSurveillance technology represents a global industry that is mediated by exclusive conferences and backdoor deals; Crofton Black has spent years investigating this industry, the players, and the vulnerabilities they exploitFurther reading & resources:More about Mariel’s workSurveillance Secrets — Lighthouse Reports, 2025Ghost in the Network — Lighthouse Reports, 2023More on the Mexican Student Movement of 1968 — Eugenia Allier-Montano, 2022The Tierra Común Network, which Mariel invites any scholars and practitioners to joinJoin The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about.Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Paola Ricaurte Quijano, Fernanda Rodrigues, Angela Chukunzira, and Kauna Love Malgwi make it clear that colonial powers have never gone away. The people and technology powering them have just changed, and one of them is AI…More Like This: REAL Resistance: Against Automated GovernmentsThis is REAL Resistance, a collection of conversations produced in collaboration with Real ML, featuring the experts and advocates who make up Real ML’s global network.In this conversation, four guests from the network discuss how the business of AI continues legacies of colonialism in Brazil, Mexico, and Kenya:AI companies are taking land in Querétaro for data center expansion, and they’re doing it without asking first. Paola Ricaurte Quijano explains that these are the mechanisms of dispossession at play — and it’s nothing new.The government in Brazil are adopting a risk-based approach for AI regulation; Fernanda Rodrigues demonstrates the problems with this approach, and how they disproportionately harm Black people.African data workers suffer the worst mental health harms when compared to other localities. Angela Chukunzira and Kauna Love Malgwi have worked to build a resistance movement for oppressed workers, and a framework for decolonising mental health.Further reading & resources:A Mental Health Intervention for Data Workers — Kauna Ibrahim Malgwi"It's not drought, it's plunder" Querétaro, the valley of data centers — By Paola Ricaurte Quijano and Teresa Roldán Soria, July 2025Facial recognition surveillance in São Paulo could worsen racism — Al Jazeera, 2023The Feminist AI Research NetworkMore about the African Content Moderators UnionIris — The Institute for Research on Internet and SocietySiasa Place — a youth organisation that helped tech workers who had been dismissed**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Maria Pilar Llorens, Divij Joshi, Gabriel Geiger, and Purity Mukami reveal how digitised welfare is not welfare — it’s just efficiency theatre.More like this: REAL Resistance: The AI Information WarpThis is REAL Resistance, a collection of conversations produced in collaboration with Real ML, featuring the experts and advocates who make up Real ML’s global network.In this conversation, three guests from the network explore the rapid digitisation of public and judicial services around the world:Courts in LatAm countries are using ChatGPT to power through the case backlog. Maria Pilar Llorens explains that speed is not a virtue in judicial settingsKenya has adopted algorithmic proxy means-testing for healthcare — Gabriel Geiger & Purity Mukami reverse-engineered it to reveal its inequitiesDigitised public services kind of have a formula now: Divij Joshi’s work takes an aerial view of digitised payments, IDs, and consolidated data sets that govern the efficiency playbookFurther reading & resources:Artificial Intelligence and Human Rights Courts — Maria Pilar LlorensHiding Behind AI — Gabriel & Purity’s report on the new Kenyan healthcare systemSuspicion Machines — Gabriel Geiger et al, Lighthouse Reports March 2023How an algorithm denied food to thousands of poor in India’s Telangana — Divij Joshi, Tapasya, Kumar Sambhav, Al Jazeera January 2024AI governance in India – law, policy and political economy — Divij Joshi, 2024Use of Entity Resolution in India: Shining a light on how new forms of automation can deny people access to welfare — Amnesty International 2024Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about.Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Klaudia Jaźwińska, Aliya Bhatia, and Yanick Kemayou come together to answer: What happens when a small collection of AI companies start colonising the truth?More like this: The Toxic Relationship Between AI & Journalism w/ Nic DawesThis is REAL Resistance, a collection of conversations produced in collaboration with Real ML, featuring the experts and advocates who make up Real ML’s global network.In this conversation, three guests from the network share all the ways in which AI is shaping our relationship with news, language, and learning:People are increasingly using AI for search and to get their news; but Klaudia Jaźwińska’s research finds that chatbots have a huge citation problemMany LLMs claim to be ‘multi-lingual’ — but also only tested in US English? Aliya Bhatia explains that porting outputs from English into all other languages in not gonna cut itHigher education in Africa is completely disconnected from local knowledge, which is why Yanick Kemayou founded Kabakoo: an alternative learning platform that leverages and preserves local knowledge with the use of technology, and without exploitationAs Yancik says in this episode, “openness without governance is extraction with extra steps”.Further reading & resources:AI Search has a Citation Problem — Klaudia Jaźwińska & Aisvarya ChandrasekarLost in Translation: Large Language Models in Non-English Content Analysis — Gabriel Nicholas, Aliya BhatiaMore on Kabakoo Academies, founded by Yanick KemayouThe SPUR Coalition — a UK org seeking to create standards and infrastructure for AI companies and news publishers to do businessThe State and Fate of Linguistic Diversity and Inclusion in the NLP World — by Pratik Joshi et al, 2020The #BenderRule: On Naming the Languages We Study and Why It Matters — Emily Bender, 2019The silicon gaze: A typology of biases and inequality in LLMs through the lens of place — Francisco W. Kerche et al, 2026Bamako AI FestivalJoin The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about.Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

How do we stand up against the human rights violations that exist in the gruesome relationship between the business of AI and war?More like this: Computer Says Kill: The AI Safety Circus w/ Heidy KhlaafIn our final installment of Computer Says Kill, Matt Mahmoudi returns, this time with Marwa Fatafta, to share the why and how of their recent joint statement on AI in warfare. The calls on AI companies to stop selling their products for use in military contexts, and for governments to cease buying them. The asks are simple while the execution is complex: what is the historical context of this fight and how long will it take to achieve some level of justice?Further reading & resources:Read the joint statement on Access Now and share across your networksMicrosoft: it’s time to come clean about your ties to the Israeli military — Access NowA million calls an hour’: Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians — The Guardian, 2025AI for War: Big Tech Empowering Israel’s Crimes and Occupation — Al Shabaka, 2025On Violence by Hanna ArendtAnthropic announces 'Claude Corps' to teach nonprofits to use AI more effectively — The Independent, June 2026Artificial Genocidal Intelligence: how Israel is automating human rights abuses and war crimes — Access Now, 2024Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about.Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

The AI industry loves to talk about safety, but their version of safety is putting us at risk.More like this: The Palestine Laboratory w/ Antony LoewensteinFor our second to last series episode of Computer Says Kill, we’re joined by Heidy Khlaaf, a global expert in designing safe critical systems for high-risk infrastructures such as energy grids, nuclear power plants, and weaponry. Heidy outlines how the AI industry is working to redefine and shrink this essential, established field of expertise. By parading around sham “safety benchmarks”, this circus of an industry is marketing statistics that literally amount nothing at best, and proof that today’s LLMs aren’t safe at all, at worst. We explore the centuries of precedent and practice established in the safety field and examine how today’s AI safety “experts” are eroding this work to rush the incorporation of shoddy tech into the lucrative nooks and crannies of our militaries, economies, and physical infrastructure.Further reading & resources:Safety Co-Option and Compromised National Security: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Weakened AI Risk Thresholds — Heidy Khlaaf & Sarah Myers West, 2025Social Benefit versus Technological Risk: What is our society willing to pay for safety? — Chauncey Starr, 1969Israel built an ‘AI factory’ for war. It unleashed it in Gaza. — WaPo December 2024Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about.Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Israel has a long history of making new technological weapons of war and exporting them to the world. They have used Palestine as a testing ground to show how new tools can enable mass killing. And they are banking that demand for their products might protect them on the world stage.More like this: Anthropic is NOT the Good Guy w/ Maddy BattIn part seven of Computer Says Kill, author of The Palestine Laboratory Antony Loewenstein explains that for Israel, precision warfare is just performative. Israel has the means to kill with precision, but this is at odds with the logics of genocide. Antony will take us through the history of Israel’s dealings with authoritarian states, and Israel and American states do not need to take state control of a their domestic tech industries because they are already so ideologically aligned with their regimes.Further reading & resources:Buy The Palestine Laboratory by Antony Loewenstein (Verso Books)Watch The Palestine Laboratory series on Al Jazeera‘Hondurasgate,’ the alleged US and Israeli interference plot to destabilize Mexico and other progressive governments — El Pais May 2026Israeli drone strikes on vehicles in Lebanon kill 12 people, including 2 children — LA Times May 2026What is Project Nimbus? Al Jazeera, 2024Israeli authorities are using facial recognition technology to entrench apartheid — on ‘Red Wolf’ from Amnesty International, 2023Check out our Youtube for Tech Story of the Week**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

The Israeli military is using data, surveillance, and AI to kill noncombatants in Southern Lebanon. More like this: Computer Says Kill: Collapsing the Chain w/ with Matt MahmoudiThis week, we're kind of taking a break from our Computer Says Kill series to play a interview from our YouTube channel that is extremely relevant to the conversations we've been having about AI and militarization. Alix sat down with Nabih Bulos, the Middle East Bureau Chief at the LA Times, to discuss his recent reporting on Israel’s complex system of surveillance-driven targeting where, as he writes, even data from a phone can become a death sentence.Further reading & resources:Inside Israel’s AI targeting system: How data from a phone become a death sentence — Nabih Bulos, The Los Angeles Times, May 2026Watch the interview on our YouTube channelCatch up on episodes of Computer Says Kill, our series on AI, warfare, and power **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Anthropic’s AI systems have been used in illegal American invasions in Iran and Venezuela. They have partnered with Musk in the disastrous Memphis Colossus facility. And yet! News coverage, some civil society, and a lot of normies act like Anthropic is one of the good guys. They aren’t!More like this: The Toxic Love Triangle of Big Tech, Big War & Big Science w/ David Gray WidderFor part six of Computer Says Kill, we are joined by legal fellow Maddy Batt, who filed an amicus brief in the courtroom battle between Anthropic and the US Department of War. We talk about what we know from the lawsuit, what we know about how AI is being used in illegal invasions, and what might be possible for corporate accountability.Further reading & resources:The amicus brief filed by Tech Justice LawBuy Project Maven by Katrina MansonAutonomised Harming — Linda Eggert, July 2023Autonomous Weapons Systems and Human Rights — Linda Eggert, July 2024Moral Crumple Zones: Cautionary Tales in Human-Robot Interaction — Madeleine Clare Elish, 2019**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Academia, Big Tech, and the military are caught in a sordid love triangle — and their love language is money.More like this: Computer Says Kill: The Blank Check to Beat China w/ Lis SiegelFor part five of Computer Says Kill, researcher David Widder describes the powerful trifecta that is academia, Big Tech, and the US military: all of them need each other to survive, but who is benefiting the most? Half of Carnegie Mellon’s research funding comes from the DoW or the DHS — and David will explain how it’s being used to both prop up war apparatus, and serve as an on-ramp to Big Tech platforms.Further reading & resources:It’s about power: What ethical concerns do software engineers have, and what do they (feel they can) do about them? — David Widder et al, June 2023Basic Research, Lethal Effects: Military AI Research Funding as Enlistment — David Widder et alOpen (For Business): Big Tech, Concentrated Power, and the Political Economy of Open AI — David Widder, Sarah West, Meredith Whittaker, August 2023 To Build Our Future, We Must Know Our Past: Contextualizing Paradigm Shifts in Natural Language Processing — Sireesh Gururaja, Amanda Bertsch, Clara Na, David Widder, Emma Strubell, December 2023What Tech Calls Thinking by Adrian DaubThe Undone Computer Science ConferenceComputer-vision research powers surveillance technology — Nature Magazine, June 2025What’s happening in Memphis with Anthropic? — The Maybe Media**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

The US is in a race to ‘beat China’ at AI. Or is it? What if I told you that powerful actors in the US have built the story of an all-or-nothing race to get what they want?More like this: Computer Says Kill: A License for Unlimited War w/ Amos TohIn part four of Computer Says Kill we are joined by Lis Siegel who shares the history. We start with a document produced by China in 2017, and arrive at today when the Chinese bogeyman is being used to drive money, political influence and supply chain control to a few US tech giants. Listen in for some insight into how we got here.Further reading & resources:Examining AI Safety as a Global Public Good: Implications, Challenges, and Research Priorities — Lis Siegel et al, March 2025Silicon Valley enabled brutal mass detention and surveillance in China, internal documents show — AP News, September 2025A Dark-Money Campaign Is Paying Influencers to Frame Chinese AI as a Threat — Taylor Lorenz, Wired, May 2026Slogan Politics by Jinghan ZengBreakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future by Dan WangFinal Report from the National Security Commission for AI — 2021Yellow Techno-Peril: The ‘Clash of Civilizations’ and anti-Chinese racial rhetoric in the US–China AI arms race — Kerry McInerney 2024Bernie Sanders urges international cooperation to halt AI’s ‘runaway train’ — The Guardian, April 2026**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

RightsCon has just been cancelled by the Zambian government with no word to the organizers, five days before it was set to begin.RightsCon is the biggest annual global gathering of the digital rights community. Every year thousands of people come together to figure out how to make the internet safer and freer for everyone. When they can't connect, we all lose.Alix shares a few theories about why Zambia pulled the plug (geopolitics, trade deals, and "values"). She also talks through her views on what it could mean that safe global spaces for this work are collapsing, and why you should care even if you've never heard of RightsCon.If you were planning on attending RightsCon we're so sorry. If you're in Zambian civil society fighting for space to engage on these issues, please know there is a global community that has your back.Further reading & resources:World’s Largest Digital Human Rights Conference Suddenly Canceled — 404 Media, April 29**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Military spending on AI is a triple black box: How is AI being used in the military? Who is winning these contracts and what are they worth? And what is the military’s end-game here?More like this: How a Calculator Company Reshaped Modern Warfare w/ Jeff SternAmos Toh will help us answer these questions in part three of Computer Says Kill. We will cover how military spending has changed over the last couple of decades: there has been a clear shift from the straightforward buying up of jets, to the over-reliance on licensed software. Amos also shares what hasn’t changed, which is: yes, the government still spend a hell of a lot of money on military tech.Further reading & resources:The Business of Military AI — Amos Toh, Emile Ayoub, March 2026Read Amos and Emile’s explainer on the military’s use of AIPentagon's use of Claude during Maduro raid sparks Anthropic feud — Axios, Feb 13Department of War's Artificial Intelligence-First Agenda: A New Era for Defense Contractors — Holland & Knight, Feb 2026The Double Black Box by Ashely DeeksAI at war: Five things to know about Project Maven — Euractiv, April 2026Safety Co-Option and Compromised National Security: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Weakened AI Risk Thresholds — Heidy Khlaaf, Sarah Myers West, April 2025**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Precision weapons are meant to make warfare more exact. But what happens when the executive branch uses precision as an excuse to make more war and target with less and less accountability for accuracy?More like this: Computer Says Kill: Collapsing the Chain w/ with Matt MahmoudiIn part two of Computer Says Kill, Jeff Stern shares how a calculator company transformed modern warfare by making more precise weapons. After the Second World War, the US military wanted to be able to wage more war and target with more accuracy. At first it was about saving American troops. Over time it became a permission structure for more executive control over lethal force.What does this history tell us about the role of precision and accountability in war?Further reading & resources:Get The Warhead by Jeff Stern nowMore on Weldon Word and the development of precise weaponry during the Vietnam warOperation Desert Storm: 25 years on — CNN 2019Right to strike when your boss sells AI to the military? — Cori Crider, The Register Lecture, 2019 **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

How does a country wage war using LLMs? Oh and WHY?More like this: AI in Gaza: Live from Mexico CityIn Computer Says Kill Ep #1 we are joined by Matt Mahmoudi. The US Department of War is leaning heavily on AI technologies to attack Iran. Matt explains how the use of LLMs to identify ‘legitimate targets’ is collapsing the chain of decisions that lead to lethal force. We discuss what this means at a time when fascist governments are eager to demonstrate their strength on the global stage. From Israel field-testing AI weapons in Gaza, to the US using AI tools in horrifying new ways to perpetuate ever worse war crimes, we start to connect the dots between the technology, the people powering it, and the human costs.Further reading & resources:Automated Apartheid — Amnesty International 2023How Israel uses facial-recognition systems in Gaza and beyond — Matt’s interview in The Guardian about the reportCrimes of Dispassion: Autonomous Weapons and the Moral Challenge of Systematic Killing — Elke Schwartz, 2023Sam Altman May Control Our Future—Can He Be Trusted? — By Ronan Farrow and Andrew Marantz, The New York Times, April 2026“Big Brother” in Jerusalem’s Old City — Who Profits Research CentreWhat is Israel's secretive cyber warfare unit 8200? — Reuters 2024Genocide as Colonial Erasure — Francesca Albanese, October 2024Buy Resisting Borders and Technologies of Violence, edited by Mizue Aizeki, Matt Mahmoudi, and Coline SchupferBuy The Palestine Laboratory: How Israel Exports the Technology of Occupation Around the World by Anthony Loewesnsteincan we add Francesa Albanese reportMatt’s research (Automated Apartheid, and anything else on warfare to link to?)Palestine Laboratory**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

This is Computer Says Kill, a new series on series focused on tracing the people, decisions, and systems that have recklessly ushered AI into the business of war.What we’re watching play out— from AI military chatbots to tech companies in bed with authoritarian governments— isn’t a new story. It's the latest chapter in a much older relationship between technology, military power, institutional systems, and capital— one that has always moved faster than accountability, and always found a way to make the next thing feel inevitable. We're not convinced this is inevitable. But we think it’s time to understand to understand exactly how we got here.The first episode in the series launches Friday, April 17th.Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

What better way than movies to help us process the world. Brian Merchant shares how our collective anxieties turn into cultural products.More like this: One Filmmaker’s Fight Against AI w/ Valerie VeatchBrian Merchant, author of Blood in the Machine, joins us this week to discuss his favorite unsettling, horror and thriller picks that bring our fears about AI and tech to life on screen.Alix and Brian talk Terminator, Pluribus, and how even comedies about technology have a spectre of violence that helps us understand everything form labour exploitation to alienation to machine autonomy. All of this contributes to the role that film plays in helping us make sense of societal and technological change.Click here to vote for us for the Webbys!Further reading & resources:The best books, film, and TV about AI in 2025 — Brian Merchant, Dec 2025The Complete Guide to Luddite Horror Films — Brain Merchant, Oct 2024The Chair Company (TV show)Pluribus (TV show)The Crying of Lot 49 by Thomas PynchonExhalation and *The Lifecycle of Software Objects* by Ted ChiangThe Most Aggressively Anti-AI Film of the ChatGPT Era — Brian Merchant on ‘Good Luck, Have Fun, Don’t Die’, March 2026The Comeback (TV series staring Lisa Kudrow)Mrs Davis (TV series about a nun on a mission to destroy AI)Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Naomi Klein has spent her career studying political movements — and she thinks progressives are doing better than we think. Because the fascists are scared.More like this: To be Seen and not Watched w/ Tawana PettyIn her forthcoming book, End Times Fascism, Klein and co-author Astra Taylor take stock of the history of fascism and the collective power that has been brought to bear to fight it. This time is different. Tech titans accumulated tremendous power and wealth, and are firmly on the side of the fascists. And our information environment is flooded and disoriented. While that might portend a dark outcome, Klein has a different diagnosis. Fascist powers seem angrier and more aggressive than ever; but Klein thinks this is a sign that we are winning.Further reading & resources:The Rise of End Times Fascism by Astra Taylor & Naomi KleinOn Tyranny by Timothy SnyderMore about Naomi & Astra’s upcoming book End Times Fascism and the Fight for the Living World.In 2026, We Are Friction-Maxxing by Kathryn Jezzer-Morton, The Cut, Jan 2026Technofeudalism: What Killed Capitalism by Yanis VaroufakisWalter Benjamin’s Concept of HistoryUN expert says world has given Israel ‘licence to torture Palestinians’ — Al Jazeera quoting Francesca Albanese, March 2026How The 'Free Helicopter Rides' Meme Went Viral — The Progressive Magazine, September 2023Safe or Just Surveilled?: Tawana Petty on the Fight Against Facial Recognition Surveillance — Logic(s) Magazine 2020**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

The way artists make art matters. And some artists, like filmmaker Valerie Veatch, are exploring what role AI has in the craft of filmmaking.More like this: Fantasy Factory: AI Supervillains w/ Anat Shenker-OsorioValerie Veatch is the director of Ghost in the Machine, a new film that explores the depths of the Silicon Valley fantasies around AI, and platforms all the people that challenge these fantasies. With this film, Valerie is working to change the culture of AI: it is not inevitable, in many way it’s not even possible, and therefore we have a right to refuse to engage with it. Valerie discusses why she made the film, what she learned, and what impact she’s hoping it will have.Ghost in the Machine will be available for rentals and screenings beginning March 27, via Kinema! Pre-sales are now available at open now (go to Kinema and slelect the "Watch" tab). Proceeds will go towards the production of the film. The film will also be available on PBS in fall 2026.Further reading & resources:Trailer for Ghost in the MachineResisting AI by Dan McQuillanOn the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots by Emily Bender et alThe TESCREAL Bundle by Timnit Gebru and Emile P. TorresKinema — where you can watch Ghost in the Machine**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Grammarly launched a feature that no one wanted and now they’re getting sued. They used the names of writers, journalists, and editors to pretend that AI versions of those people were making writing suggestions via the application. None of these ‘expert reviewers’ had any idea. Grammarly pissed off the wrong journalist.And now Julia Angwin is suing them.More like this: The Toxic Relationship Between AI & Journalism w/ Nic DawesIn this episode Julia (and her lawyer Peter) discuss what happened with Grammarly, why she’s suing, and how neither of them can believe that this tool made it through their legal team and into the public realm.Please email [email protected] for more info, or if you would like your name to be searched in the list of experts that Grammarly used for their tool.Further reading & resources:Julia’s op ed in the New York TimesPre-order Julia’s new book On Courage: How to be a Dissident in an Age of FearCheck out The Markup, founded by JuliaGrammarly pulls AI author-impersonation tool after backlash — BBC 12th March 2026Shishir Mehrotra’s (CEO of Grammarly) apology on LinkedInGrammarly Is Offering ‘Expert’ AI Reviews From Your Favorite Authors—Dead or Alive — Wired 4th March 2026Grammarly is using our identities without permission — The Verge 6th March 2026Grammarly turned me into an AI editor against my will and I hate it — Casey Newton, Platformer 9th March 2026Details of the case, from PRF Law, Julia’s representative firm**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

The left has a messaging problem. Silicon Valley elites are literally making up impossible fantasies and their narratives are winning out. Why?More like this: The Stories we Tell Ourselves About AIThis week in our second episode leading to the AI Doc, we are joined by Anat Shenker-Osorio, a progressive campaign strategist who hosts the Words To Win By podcast. Anat tries to focus on the positives: if you don’t think people should join the AI party, throw a better party. She gives us some quick lessons on messaging: how to paint tech CEOs as actual villains, how to flip the script and convince AI men that actually, it’s okay to die — and how to avoid what Anat refers to as ‘Mar-a-lago face’Further reading & resources:Listen to Anat’s podcast Words to Win byPre-Suasion and Influence by Robert CialdiniMessaging This Moment — a critical handbook for progressive comms **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

Next time someone tells you that we can build data centres in space, show them this podcast episode — because it is literally impossible.More like this: AI Safety’s Spiral of Urgency w/ Shazeda AhmedOr better yet, recommend that they buy More Everything Forever, Adam Becker’s latest book exploring all the fantasies and promises of coming out of Silicon Valley. This episode is the first in our Fantasy Factory series, where we explore how and why tech evangelists manufacture consent about AI’s boom, doom, and inevitability.The futures that AI men want for us — e.g. a disembodied immortal life in AI utopia — are all scientifically impossible. Even the worse mass-extinction event on Earth would be more pleasant than trying to live on Mars. Yes, space is very cold, but it doesn’t mean we should put data centres out there! Adam explains where these narratives are coming from, who they benefit, and why they exist outside the laws of physics.Further reading & resources:More about Adam BeckerBuy More Everything ForeverFor All Mankind (TV series)Our video on the Iran war**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

How does an oppressed workforce organise against Big Tech employers with even bigger lobbying muscle?More like this: Worker Power & Big Tech Boss Men w/ David SeligmanThis week’s episode is a recording of our livestream from Monday: a litigator, regulator, and activist share their work and perspectives on coordinating bottom-up fights against Big Tech power, worker suppression, and unfair consumer practices. Speakers are:David Seligman, Executive Director of Towards Justice and Democratic candidate for Colorado Attorney GeneralAlvaro Bedoya, former Commissioner of the Federal Trade Commission and founding director of the Center on Privacy and Technology at Georgetown University Law CenterElliott “El’Bo” Awatt, Driver Organizer with Colorado Independent Drivers UnitedFurther reading & resources:Alvaro Bedoya on how he became a populistDrivers for Lyft and Uber are building a national movement — Colorado Newsline 2024Uber Claims Transparency Law Complicates Rides and Takes Away Driver Perks – but Does It? — Westword, February 2025An AMA on Reddit with David Seligman**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

This is the last of our series AI Lingo Bingo Series! We dig into four more co-opted concepts with four more all stars.More like this: Last week’s episode with Meredith Whittaker, Audrey Tang, Abeba Birhane, and Usha RamanathanThis week we’ll hear from Naomi Klein, who will discuss how ‘AI for Climate’ is very much not a thing; Nikhil Dey who shares all the ways powerful actors cosplay at having ‘accountability’; Timnit Gebru who explains that ‘frugal AI’ is something being made novel by the hype & scale of big tech business models; and finally Chinasa Okolo who will help us better understand the complexities of ‘multilateralism’.Further reading & resources:More on Nikhil Dey — social activist and a founding member of the Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS)More on Timnit Gebru — founder of the DAIR instituteMore on Naomi Klein — author and professor of climate justice at the University of British ColumbiaMore on Chinasa Okolo — founder of Technecultura, a research institute focussing on AI governance for global majority countriesThe Guardian’s profile on Nikhil — June 2013More about MKSS involvement in the Campaign for the Right to Information in IndiaThe Screen New Deal — by Naomi Klein, The Intercept, 2020More on the cancellation of the Northern Gateway PipelineGhana NLPWatch this week’s interviews in full on YoutubeRSVP to **The People's Policy: Holding Big Tech Accountable [Livestreamed Conversation + Q&A]** — happening on March 2nd 5:30pm MT**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Anthropic’s Claude was used in the military operation to kidnap president Maduro earlier this year. Why? Unclear. Was this legal? Absolutely not.More like this: AI In Gaza: Live from Mexico CitySurprise, surprise: the DoD feels that they should able to use AI models however they want, as long as its lawful — but… was this lawful? They are now threatening to designate Anthropic as a supply chain risk. What does this all mean?For this short, Alix was joined by Amos Toh, senior counsel at the Brennan Centre for Justice, to help us understand why the US defence department and an AI company are arguing about how best to us AI models for dehumanising and unjust military purposes.Further reading & resources:Pentagon's use of Claude during Maduro raid sparks Anthropic feud — Axios, Feb 13Anthropic on shaky ground with Pentagon amid feud after Maduro raid — The Hill, Feb 19US used Anthropic's Claude during the Venezuela raid, WSJ reports — Reuters, Feb 16Pentagon Used Anthropic’s Claude in Maduro Venezuela Raid — WSJ, Feb 15Amos’s Bluesky thread sharing more thoughts on the storyComputer Says Maybe Shorts bring in experts to give their ten-minute take on recent news. If there’s ever a news story you think we should bring in expertise on for the show, please email [email protected] Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

It’s our second week of playing AI lingo bingo. The summit in India is underway and the air is thick with vague terms that fail to describe the big problems.More like this: Lingo Bingo at the India AI Summit w/ Karen Hao, Joan Kinyua, Chenai Chair, and Rafael GrohmannWith us this week to discuss co-opted terms is Meredith Whittaker on how ‘open source’ cannot meaninfully be applied to AI systems; Audrey Tang on ‘democratisation’, something which is both helped and harmed by AI; Abeba Birhane on everyone’s favourite slogan ‘AI for Good’; and Usha Ramanathan to discuss ‘AI and development’ in the context of the Aadhaar project in India.Further reading & resources:More on Usha Ramanathan — legal researcher and human rights activistMore on Abeba Birhane — principle investigator at the AI Accountability Lab at Trinity College DublinMore on Meredith Whittaker — President of SignalMore on Audrey Tang — Taiwan’s first Digital MinisterDistributional AGI Safety — by Nenad Tomašev et alWatch this week’s interviews in full on Youtube**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou | Post Production by Sarah Myles

The AI Impact Summit in India is just a couple of days away and we are ready to drown in vague terms that kinda describe AI, and definitely obscure power. Let’s talk about how to reframe those terms…More like this: The Vaporstate: All Hail Scale at the AI India SummitWe’ve partnered with the AI Now Institute and Aapti Institute to conduct twelve interviews based around the biggest and baddest terms we feel have been co-opted by global summits such as this one. This week we have Karen Hao discussing what it means to be ‘data rich’; Rafael Grohmann on the word ‘sovereignty’ and how it has a hundred definitions; Joan Kinyua on ‘human capital’, a key part of any AI development supply chain; and Chenai Chair, who will discuss ‘linguistic diversity’ — what it is, and what it isn’t.These are just the best parts of the interviews — if you want to go deep and see each of these interviews in full, head to our Youtube channel now.Further reading & resources:More about Rafael Grohmann — Assistant Professor of Media Studies with focus on Critical Platform and Data Studies at the University of TorontoMore about Karen Hao — investigative journalist and author of Empire of AIMore about Chenai Chair — director of the Masakhane African Languages HubMore about Joan Kinyua — president of the Data Labellers AssociationMore on the Due Diligence ActMore about the amendment to the Business Laws Act 2024What does the notion of “sovereignty” mean when referring to the digital? — Stephane Couture and Sophie ToupinBuy The Oracle for Transfeminist Technologies by Sasha Costanza-Chock, Joana Varon, and Clara JulianoWatch this week’s interviews in full on Youtube (link to playlist of interviews)**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

In The Vaporstate, we have traveled to Brazil, India, and the UK. But what does this look like as a global movement of nations and companies evangelising technology as the key to solving all problems, everywhere?More like this: Paris Post-Mortem (live)For our final instalment of The Vaporstate, Alix is joined by Astha Kapoor and Amba Kak to reflect on the series, and discuss the upcoming AI Action Summit in India. This is the first time this summit is being hosted by a global majority country — will this create new opportunities for civil society to have a say, or is this just yet another chance for tech companies to whisper magic AI spells into the ear of government?The end of The Vaporstate series marks the beginning of another series, made in partnership with AI Now and Aapti Institute: in the run up to the AI Summit, we want to rethink the terms that have been co-opted by government and industry. Terms like ‘sovereignty’, ‘AI for good’, and ‘human capital’. We interviewed twelve experts who unpack how these terms are framed in global summits like this one — watch this space for conversations with Naomi Klein, Meredith Whitaker, and Karen Hao, to name a few.Further reading & resources:Mark Carney’s speech at Davos January 2026Watch the first batch of interviews discussing co-opted terms used in and around the upcoming summit**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou 

What does US tech billionaire Larry Ellison get when he gives the Tony Blair Institute hundreds of millions of dollars?More like this: The Vaporstate: ID in IndiaIn our third installment of The Vaporstate, we are joined by two journalists from Lighthouse Reports, who tell all about their investigation into the questionable relationship between Oracle founder Larry Ellison, the Tony Blair Institute, and the current Labour government. What is the Tony Blair Institute and why did Ellison give them millions of dollars? What does any of this have to do with national IDs and NHS data? And if you’re a government official somewhere around the world, and TBI comes knocking to sell you an AI future what you should do…?Further reading & resources:Britain must treat tech giants like nation states — The Times, 2024Backlight — Lighthouse’s monthly podcastBlair and the Billionaire — Lighthouse Reports 2025Inside The Tony Blair Institute — Lighthouse journalists Peter Geoghegan and May Bulman are interviewed by The New StatesmanDo you have a story that you think is missing from public discourse? Here’s how to get in touch with LighthouseQuestions Alix proposed for the Sundance panel — as mentioned in the intro.**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou 

What happens when the very way you prove who you are is stolen by someone else? And what happens when a country stands up to Meta and builds their own.More like this: The Vaporstate: ID in IndiaFor episode two of The Vaporstate, Alix is joined by Rafael Zanatta and Luã Cruz. Rafa walks us through the incredible story of how his mom’s digital ID was stolen and a clever bank teller stopped someone from halfway across the country from stealing her savings. Luã ****shares the geopolitical battles that prevented a Meta takeover of Brazilian peer-to-peer payment and the roll out of a frictionless financial transaction system called PIX.Further reading & resources:Brazil Has The World’s Most Accessed Citizen Services Platform — Forbes, March 2024More about Data Privacy BrazilThe Tyranny of Convenience by Tim Wu — New York Times, 2018Works by South Korean philosopher Byung-Chul HanLula pushing back against Trump’s tariffs — AP, September 2025More about The Brazilian Institute for Consumer Protection**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Our first exploration of The Vaporstate takes us to India, home of Aadhaar: a mammoth digitisation project that charts a path from technical solution for public service delivery, through mission creep and popular opposition, to a knotty but inescapable part of Indian existence today.More like this: Is Digitisation Killing Democracy? w/ Marietje SchaakeJoining Alix for part one of The Vaporstate is Mila Samdub, Astha Kapoor, and Usha Ramanathan. Together they discuss the conception of Aadhaar, India’s key piece of digital public infrastructure, and how it morphed from a simple digital ID to something that unifies payments, phone plans, and biometrics.Further reading & resources:More about Usha Ramanathan — legendary lawyer and activist who has been pushing back on the Aadhaar programme for over a decadeMore about Astha Kapoor — co-founder of the Aapti InstituteMore about Mila Samdub — designer, writer, and CyberBRICS Fellow at the Center for Internet and Society, FGV RioComputer-vision research powers surveillance technology — by Abeba Birhane et al, Nature JournalAadhaar 2.0 workshopWalmart Takes Ownership of PhonePe from Flipkart — The Times of India, 2022Walmart invests $200 million in Indian mobile payments giant PhonePe — TechCrunch, 2023Google launches India mobile payments app Tez — BBC, 2017Identity Verification Standards in Welfare Programs: Experimental Evidence from India — Karthik Muralidharan et al, National Bureau of Economic Research, 2021Aadhaar: Costs of Digital Red Tape — Reetika Khera & Amod Moharil, Economic & Political Weekly, 2024Overload, Creep, Excess – An Internet from India — Nafis Hasan et al, Institute of Network Cultures, 2022Aadhaar: A Biometric History of India's 12 Digit Revolution — Shankkar Aiyar, Westland, 2017**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

This is The Vaporstate, a new series on the worldwide government bonanza of enthusiastic digitisation: Digital IDs, digital payment systems, massive data exchange platforms. What are the every-day impacts of these digitisation projects, and why now?The Vaporstate is a deep exploration of digital public infrastructure: we will hear from the journalists, civil society groups, and lawyers from around the world who are watching these projects develop, and how this digital scaffolding shapes our lives.Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Infinite AI slop means we are moving away from our the age of information into what Eryk Salvaggio calls ‘the age of noise’.More like this: Straight to Video: From Rodney King to Sora w/ Sam GregoryWe’re replaying five deep conversations over the Christmas period for you to listen to on your travels and downtime — please enjoy!What happens if you ask a generative AI image model to show you what Picasso’s work would have looked like if he lived in Japan in the 16th century? Would it produce something totally new, or just mash together stereotypical aesthetics from Picasso’s work, and 16th century Japan? Can generative AI really create anything new if it can only draw from existing imagery?Further reading:What I Read About AI in 2025 — by Eryk SalvaggioVisit Eryk’s WebsiteCybernetic Forests — Eryk’s newsletter on tech and culturePost Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Welcome to the final boss of scams in the age of technology: EnshittificationMore like this: Nodestar: The Eternal September w/ Mike MasnickWe’re replaying five deep conversations over the Christmas period for you to listen to on your travels and downtime — please enjoy!Is platformisation essentially just an industrial level scam? We will deep-dive the enshittification playbook to understand how companies lock users into decaying platforms, and get away with it. Cory shares ideas on what we can do differently to turn tide. Listen to learn what a ‘chickenised reverse centaur’ is…Further reading & resources:Buy Enshittifcation now from Verso Books!Picks and Shovels by Cory DoctorowOn The Media series on EnshittificationPluralistic — Daily Links and essays by Cory DoctorowConservatism Considered as a Movement of Bitter Rubes — Cory on why conservatism creates a friendly environment for scamsHow I Got Scammed — Cory on his personal experiences of being scammedAll of Cory’s booksAll (Antitrust) Politics Are Local — the entry to Pluralistic that Cory wrote on the day of recording**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Litigator David Seligman describes how big tech companies act brazenly as legal bullies to extract wealth and power from the working class in the US.More like this: The Human in the Loop: The AI Supply ChainWe’re replaying five deep conversations over the Christmas period for you to listen to on your travels and downtime — please enjoy!Alix and David talk about legal devices such as forced arbitration and monopolistic practices like algorithmic price fixing and wage suppression — and the cases that David’s team are bringing to fight these practicesFurther reading & resourcesSeligman for Attorney General ColoradoTowards Justice California drivers lawsuitEichman in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banal State of Evil by Hannah ArendtThe Dual State by Ernst FraenkelProhibiting Surveillance Prices and Wages by Towards JusticeGill VS Uber — class action led by Towards Justice**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Reporting on the tech industry proves a huge challenge due to how opaque it all is — Empire of AI author Karen Hao talks us through her investigative methods in a conversation from November 2024.More like this: Net 0++ AI Thirst in a Water-Scarce World w/ Julie McCarthyWe’re replaying five deep conversations over the Christmas period for you to listen to on your travels and downtime — please enjoy!AI companies are flagrantly obstructive when it comes to sharing information about their infrastructure — this makes reporting on the climate injustices of AI really hard. Karen shares the tactics that these companies use, and the challenges that she has faced in her investigative reporting.Further reading:Buy Empire of AI by Karen HaoMicrosoft’s Hypocrisy on AI by Karen HaoAI is Taking Water from the Desert by Karen HaoPost Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

A replay of our conversation with Kate Sim, on the state of child safety online.More like this: Dogwhistles: Networked Transphobia OnlineWe’re replaying five deep conversations over the Christmas period for you to listen to on your travels and downtime — please enjoy!Child safety is a fuzzy catch-all concept for our broader social anxieties that seems to be everywhere in our conversations about the internet. But child safety isn’t a new concept, and the way our politics focuses on the spectacle isn’t new either.To help us unpack this is Kate Sim, who has over a decade of experience in sexual violence prevention and response and is currently the Director of the Children’s Online Safety and Privacy Research (COSPR) program at the University of Western Australia’s Tech & Policy Lab. We discuss the growth of ‘child safety’ regulation around the world, and how it often conflates multiple topics: age-gating adult content, explicit attempts to harm children, national security, and even ‘family values’.Further reading & resources:On COSPRs forthcoming paper on the CSAM detection ecosystem. Here is a fact sheet with ecosystem map based on it: https://bit.ly/cospr-collateralOn CSAM bottleneck problem: https://doi.org/10.25740/pr592kc5483IBCK episode on the Anxious Generation: https://pod.link/1651876897/episode/47a8aa95c83be96b044dcb3f4e43d158Child psychology expert Candace Odgers debunking Jonathan Haidt’s claims in real-time here: https://tyde.virginia.edu/event/haidt-odgers/)A primer on client-side scanning and CSAM from Mitali Thakor: https://mit-serc.pubpub.org/pub/701yvdbh/release/2On effective CSA prevention and scalability: https://www.prevention.global/resources/read-full-scalability-report**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Before we break for the year we wanted to reflect on what the podcast brought us in 2025, and what we want to see for 2026This week Alix is joined by two members of The Maybe team: Prathm Juneja and Georgia Iacovou. We discuss our favourite episodes from the year while making it clear we love all episodes equally. And also this is not your standard clip show. We ask ourselves what we learned, why it was important to us, and what we are hungry for in 2026.Featured episodes:Is Digitisation Killing Democracy? w/ Marietje SchaakeNodestar: Building Blacksky w/ Rudy FraserRegulating Privacy in an AI Era w/ Carly KindTo be Seen and Not Watched w/ Tawana PettyThe Taiwan Bottleneck w/ Brian ChenGotcha! How MLMs Ate the Economy w/ Bridget ReadAlso mentioned in this episode: AI in Gaza Live from Mexico City**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

The Onion CEO Ben Collins has successfully turned political satire into a sustainable business. He explains why humorous messaging is important to understand times like these — and why he’s dead serious about buying Infowars.Head to our feed for more conversations from MozFest with Abeba Birhane, Audrey Tang, and Luisa Franco Machado.Further reading & resources:Read The Onion, America’s finest news source, if you don’t already…The Onion to buy Infowars**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Audrey Tang has some big ideas on how we can use collective needs to shape AI systems — and avoid a future where human life is seen as an obstacle to paper clip production. She also shares what might be the first actual good use-case for AI agents…Further reading & resources:6-Pack of Care — a research project by Audrey Tang and Caroline Green as part of the Institute for Ethics in AIMore about Kami — the Japanese local spirits Audrey mentions throughout the conversationThe Oxford Institute for Ethics in AI**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

You can’t build a digital rights movement if you don’t know what you’re fighting for. Luisa says that we’re in a crisis of imagination, and that participation — the non-performative kind — is one big way out of this.Further reading & resources:Learn more about EquilabsFollow Luisa on Instagram — sorry, email is too ‘analog’Check out her Linktree**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Earlier this year Abeba Birhane was asked to give a keynote at the AI for Good Summit for the UN — and at the eleventh hour they attempted to censor any mention of genocide in Palestine, and their Big Tech sponsors. She was invited to give her full uncensored talk at Mozfest.Further reading & resources:Abeba’s blog post on the UN censoring her talk on AIMore about AbebaMore about The AI Accountability Lab**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Mozilla Festival 2025. Barcelona. Three days in a bonanza of interesting people, ideas, and technology politics. These were our highlights!More like this: FAccT 2025 episodes one and twoThis is an extra special episode packed full of conversations and on-site impressions of the biggest Mozfest we’ve had in years. This year Alix moderated three panels, ran an AMA, and even hosted a game show — and somehow also had time to record all of this, for your pleasure.Included in this episode is:A preview of Exposing and Reshaping the Global Footprint of Data Centers, with independent journalist Pablo Jiménez Arandia, Tessa Pang (impact editor for Lighthouse Reports), and Paz Peña (Mozilla Fellow, and founder of the Latin American Institute of Terraforming.)A conversation with Hana Memon, developer at Gen Z for ChangeA conversation with creative technologist Malik Afegbua, on his project The Elder SeriesNabiha Syed and Helen Turvey will also reflect on how this Mozfest went, and what they hope to see for the future of the festival in the coming years**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Everything is happening so fast. And a lot of it’s bad. What can research and science organizations do when issues are complex, fast-moving, and super important?More like this: Independent Researchers in a Platform Era w/ Brandi GuerkinkBuilding knowledge is more important than ever in times like these. This week, we have three guests. Megan Price from the Human Rights Data Analysis Group (HRDAG) shares how statistics and data science can be used to get justice. Janet Haven and Charlton McIlwan from Data & Society explore the role that research institutions can offer to bridge research knowledge and policy prescription.Further reading & resources:HRDAG’s involvement in the trial of José Efraín Ríon MonttA profile of Guatemala and timeline of its conflict — BBC (last updated in 2024)To Protect and Serve? — a study on predictive policing by William Isaac and Kristian LumAn article about the above study — The AppealHRDAG’s stand against tyrannyMore on Understanding AI — Data & Society’s event series with the New York Public LibraryAbout Janet Haven, Executive Director of Data & SocietyAbout Charlton McIlwan, board president of Data & SocietyBias in Computer Systems by Helen NissenbaumCenter for Critical Race and Digital StudiesIf you want to hear more about the history of D&S, the full conversation is up on Youtube (add link when we have).**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**Post Production by Sarah Myles | Pre Production by Georgia Iacovou

Imagine doing tech research… but from outside the tech industry? What an idea…More like this: Nodestar: Turning Networks into Knowledge w/ Andrew TraskSo much of tech research happens within the tech industry itself, because it requires data access, funding, and compute. But what the tech industry has in resources, it lacks in independence, scruples, and a public interest imperative. Alix is joined by Brandi Guerkink from The Coalition of Independent Tech Research to discuss her work at a time where platforms have never been so opaque, and funding has never been so sparseFurther Reading & Resources:More about Brandi and The CoalitionUnderstanding Engagement with U.S. (Mis)Information News Sources on Facebook by Laura Edelson & Dan McCoyMore on Laura EdelsonMore on Dan McCoyJim Jordan bringing in Nigel Farage from the UK to legitimise his attacks on EU tech regulations — PoliticoTed Cruz on preventing jawboning & government censorship of social media — BloombergJudge dismisses ‘vapid’ Elon Musk lawsuit against group that cataloged racist content on X — The GuardianSee the CCDH’s blog post on getting the case thrown outPlatforms are blocking independent researchers from investigating deepfakes by Ariella SteinhornDisclosure: This guest is a PR client of our consultancy team. As always, the conversation reflects our genuine interest in their work and ideas.**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**

Governments around the world are using predictive systems to manage engagement with even the most vulnerable. Results are mixed.More like this: Algorithmically Cutting Benefits w/ Kevin De LibanLuckily people like Soizic Pénicaud are working to prevent the modern welfare state from becoming a web of punishment of the most marginalised. Soizic has worked on algorithmic transparency both in and outside of a government context, and this week will share her journey from working on incrementally improving these systems (boring, ineffective, hard) — to escaping the slow pace of government and looking at the bigger picture of algorithmic governance, and how it can build better public benefit in France (fun, transformative, and a good challenge).Soizic is working to shift political debates about opaque decision-making algorithms to focus on what they’re really about: the marginalised communities who’s lives are most effected by these systems.Further reading & resources:The Observatory of Public Algorithms and their InventoryThe ongoing court case against the French welfare agency's risk-scoring algorithmMore about SoizicMore on the Transparency of Public Algorithms roadmap from Etalab — the task force Soizic was part ofLa Quadrature du NetFrance’s Digital Inquisition — co-authored by Soizic in collaboration with Lighthouse Reports, 2023AI prototypes for UK welfare system dropped as officials lament ‘false starts’ — The Guardian Jan 2025Learning from Cancelled Systems by Data Justice LabThe Fall of an Algorithm: Characterizing the Dynamics Toward Abandonment — by Nari Johnson et al, featured in FAccT 2024**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we host live shows and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!**

Seeing is believing. Right? But what happens when we lose trust in the reproductive media put in front of us?More like this: The Toxic Relationship Between AI and Journalism w/ Nic DawesWe talked to a global expert and leading voice on this issue for the past 20 years, Sam Gregory to get his take. We started way back in 1992 when Rodney King was assaulted by 4 police officers in Los Angeles. Police brutality was (and is) commonplace, but something different happened in this case. Someone used a camcorder and caught it on video. It changed our understanding about the role video could play in accountability. And in the past 30 years, we’ve gone from seeking video as evidence and advocacy, to AI slop threatening to seismically reshape our shared realities.Now apps like Sora provide impersonation-as-entertainment. How did we get here?Further reading & resources:More on the riots following Rodney King’s murder — NPRMore about Sam and WitnessObscuraCam — a privacy-preserving camera app from WITNESS and The Guardian ProjectC2PA: the Coalition for Content Provenance and AuthenticityDeepfakes Rapid Response Force by WITNESSSubscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!Post Production by Sarah Myles