Destination Discourse

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Matt Vinson from Visit Dallas for a conversation about what destination marketing can learn from fresh perspectives, especially from sports, technology, and outside industries.After a chaotic intro, Adam’s public apology, and Matt’s brave admission that he hates the Stu’s News theme song, the group dives into the rapid evolution of AI tools like Claude Design, Claude Code, ChatGPT, Gemini, and Copilot. They explore what these tools mean for DMOs, why context is becoming one of the most important organizational assets, and how AI may change staffing, workflows, design, websites, and even the future of SaaS.Matt shares his perspective as someone who came into the DMO world from sports, including what surprised him most about the industry: the number of vendors, the politics of public funding, the limited number of dominant technology platforms, and the challenge of proving ROI when DMOs do not control the full customer journey.The conversation also tackles risk aversion in the DMO space, the “cycle of stagnancy,” the need for more experimentation, and why DMOs may need to become builders of tools, not just buyers of software.Finally, Matt shares lessons from sports marketing that destinations should embrace, especially the power of events, experiences, and deeper human storytelling. The group closes with a discussion on destination-owned events, community-driven experiences, and why the future of DMOs depends on creativity, courage, and a willingness to ask “what if?”Topics covered include:Claude Design, Claude Code, and the changing AI landscapeWhy context is critical for using AI wellHow DMOs may need to rethink org charts and AI trainingWhat sports marketing can teach destination marketersThe challenge of attribution and proving ROIWhy vendor selection may need to become more future-focusedThe opportunity for DMOs to build their own toolsWhy events and experiences may become essential travel motivatorsThe importance of human-centered storytellingHow DMOs can move beyond promotion and become true community builders

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker record together in Myrtle Beach for a conversation that gets personal, practical, and a little uncomfortable—in the best way.Stuart introduces a framework he’s been shaping over time: scrappy always wins.But this isn’t about doing more with less or glorifying hustle. It’s about something deeper. Scrappy is defined here as the intersection of courage and imagination—the willingness to challenge assumptions and the creativity to find a better way forward.Stuart shares how growing up with visual impairment and color blindness shaped the way he sees the world today, forcing him to question norms and build solutions differently. That perspective has carried into his professional life, where challenging the status quo isn’t optional—it’s the job.The conversation explores:* Why “scrappy” has been misunderstood—and what it actually means* The role of first principles thinking in breaking out of industry habits* What it looks like to truly obsess over the customer, not just talk about it* Why you have to be willing to “hug the cactus” and do the hard things others avoid* How long-term thinking unlocks ideas that don’t fit neatly into annual plansStuart and Adam also reflect on real-world examples, including the creation of an award-winning TV show focused on neurodivergent travelers—an idea that didn’t come from following a playbook, but from rethinking what a destination brand could be.At its core, this episode is a challenge:In a world where technology is changing faster than ever, playing it safe is the riskiest move you can make.If you’re in destination marketing—or any industry facing disruption—this one will push you to rethink how you approach your work.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler, Adam Stoker, and returning guest Matt Stiker tackle one of the most entertaining—and surprisingly important—questions in destination marketing:Are DMOs too focused on the “D”… and not enough on the “O”?Yes, the title is a little clickbaity. Yes, the jokes write themselves. But underneath it is a real conversation about relevance, value, and what DMOs actually exist to do.The episode kicks off with Stu’s News, where the team briefly revisits the rapid evolution of AI tools and how they’re shifting work from “helping” to actually doing. But the real meat of the episode is a thoughtful (and occasionally juvenile) debate about the future role of DMOs.Matt introduces the idea that DMOs may be over-indexing on promoting the destination while under-investing in the strength and clarity of the organization itself—especially when it comes to proving value to stakeholders.Stuart pushes back, sharing how Visit Myrtle Beach is evolving its role beyond promotion into full stewardship of the tourism economy—from air service and major events to infrastructure, workforce, and even utilities. His perspective: if you’re only talking about marketing, you’re underselling the real impact.Adam brings a needed balance, warning against overcorrecting. If DMOs lose focus on driving visitation, none of the rest matters. The destination still has to perform—and that starts with compelling promotion.What emerges is a more nuanced truth:* Outside your market, it’s all about the destination* Inside your community, it’s all about the organization* And long-term relevance depends on getting both rightThe conversation also challenges the industry’s reliance on outdated metrics like website traffic and attribution, arguing instead for a bigger-picture view: economic impact, community outcomes, and the ability to influence what wouldn’t happen without you.In this episode:* The real meaning behind “the D vs the O”* Why DMOs must evolve beyond promotion* Who the true “customer” of a DMO actually is* Why attribution is getting harder—and less relevant* The risk of overcorrecting away from destination marketing* How to communicate value without relying on vanity metrics* Why “this stuff doesn’t just happen” might be the most important message of allKey takeaway:You need the D. You need the O.But if you can’t explain why your organization matters, someone else will eventually decide it doesn’t.

What happens when travelers start treating their vacation calendar like a strategy game?In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back Caleb Sullivan for a conversation that starts with podcast banter, Claude productivity talk, and a plug for Caleb’s new podcast, Give Me Some Good News — then quickly turns into a smart discussion about a timely tourism marketing question:Are destinations overlooking the growing trend of PTO optimization?Caleb makes the case that “PTO hacking” — where travelers use holidays and strategic time off to stretch a few vacation days into longer getaways — could be a real opportunity for DMOs. The discussion explores whether this is a niche internet trend or the beginning of a broader shift toward micro-vacations, micro-seasonality, and new demand-generation strategies.Stuart pushes back on whether this is too granular to market directly, especially through paid media, while Adam argues the real opportunity is not in running ads about PTO, but in creating useful content, itineraries, and experiences that help travelers act on the insight.The conversation also expands into a bigger idea: as travel behavior fragments, are DMOs increasingly becoming curators of distinctive experiences rather than just promoters of place?Along the way, the group discusses: • Caleb’s new podcast, Give Me Some Good News • Why Claude Co-Work is becoming dangerously productive • PTO hacking as a potential travel demand signal • Why educational content may be more effective than direct deal-driven promotion • The rise of micro-vacations and shoulder-season opportunities • Conway, South Carolina’s Halloween success as a model for building demand through experience creation • Why destinations need to know their brand before creating new experiences • Caleb’s new role with Datafy leading East Coast growth strategyIt’s a fun, thoughtful episode about timing, creativity, branding, and how destinations can find openings others miss.#DestinationDiscourse #TourismMarketing #DestinationMarketing #DMO #TravelMarketing #PTOHacking #MicroVacations #TourismStrategy #PlaceBranding

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are back for a long-overdue one-on-one conversation, and they waste no time jumping into two big topics that could reshape destination marketing.First, Stuart shares why he believes AI has reached another watershed moment. He breaks down how his team at Visit Myrtle Beach is using Claude Co-Work not just as a chatbot, but as something much closer to a true teammate. From building board presentations to turning complex analytics into polished stakeholder updates in minutes, Stuart argues that AI is moving from simple assistance to real workflow integration. The conversation explores what that means for productivity, strategy, and the future value of destination marketers.Then Adam shifts the discussion to paid media and makes the case that most destination organizations are still budgeting for an old media world. In today’s attention economy, he argues, paid media should be used less as a fixed annual plan and more as a flexible engine to amplify content that has already proven it can earn attention. That sparks a lively debate between Stuart and Adam about risk, measurement, creativity, media mix, and whether smaller DMOs should make bolder moves instead of copying larger destinations.It is a classic Destination Discourse episode: part AI wake-up call, part strategy debate, and part reminder that the industry cannot afford to stand still.Topics covered: • Why Stuart sees Claude Co-Work as a major AI breakthrough • How AI is helping small teams move faster and think bigger • What happens when the cost of strategy support and execution drops close to zero • Why destination marketers may need to rethink the value they provide to stakeholders • Adam’s evolving view of paid media in the attention economy • Why high-volume, high-variety content may outperform polished annual campaigns • The role of paid media in scaling attention once it is earned • Why smaller DMOs may have more to gain by moving quicklyIf this episode got you thinking, share it with a colleague in the industry and subscribe for more conversations on where destination marketing is headed.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined once again by AI strategist C.A. Clark for a wide-ranging conversation about artificial intelligence, adoption gaps, and what the technology actually means for the future of work in tourism.The discussion begins with a look at recent job market data and the growing debate around whether AI is already affecting employment. While the long-term outlook may include economic growth and new opportunities, the group explores the short-term disruption that could occur as industries adapt—particularly for entry-level and white-collar roles.From there, the conversation shifts into what may be a bigger issue: the massive gap between AI’s real capabilities and how most organizations are actually using it. Many professionals claim to be using AI, but in reality they’re treating it like a slightly smarter search engine. Meanwhile, the tools themselves are advancing at an exponential rate.C.A. argues that the biggest shift isn’t about delegating tasks to AI—it’s about learning how to work differently alongside non-human intelligence. That requires experience, experimentation, and a willingness to rethink traditional workflows.The group also explores why many organizations—including DMOs—are struggling to adopt AI meaningfully. Conferences often spend too much time explaining what AI is instead of showing real use cases. At the same time, many teams are waiting for a perfect moment to start experimenting instead of learning by doing.The takeaway: the window for experimentation is right now.The hosts discuss how younger generations may actually have an advantage in this environment, how AI could drive a new wave of entrepreneurship, and why skills like trust, taste, and execution may become the most valuable roles humans play in an AI-powered world.If you’re still sitting on the sidelines with AI—or just scratching the surface—this conversation is a reminder that the time to start experimenting is already here.Key topics in this episode: • Is AI already impacting jobs and the travel economy? • Why entry-level career ladders may be changing • The growing gap between AI capability and real-world adoption • Why using AI like Google misses the point • The mindset shift required to work alongside AI • How Gen Z may be uniquely prepared for AI-era work • Why DMOs need to move from talking about AI to showing real use cases • Why 2026 may be the tipping point for meaningful AI adoptionTools mentioned in the episode: • Claude • Gemini • Replit • AI “thinking models” and co-working tools

Destination marketing has a sameness problem, and this episode tackles it head-on.Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Matt Stiker and Katy Livingston of Madden Media for a conversation about why so much destination advertising feels interchangeable, what “destination gentrification” looks like in practice, and why safe, committee-friendly marketing often leads to forgettable work.Before diving in, the episode opens with a classic bit of Destination Discourse chaos: Adam joins from his phone after a brutal travel delay, his computer fails him, and the jingle takes a very unexpected turn.From there, Stu’s News focuses on OpenAI’s upcoming GPT-5.4 updates and what larger context windows, better reasoning, and fewer hallucinations could mean for the future of agentic AI. The group agrees that while average DMO users may not feel every update immediately, the bigger lesson is clear: AI keeps improving, and destinations can’t afford to give up on it just because it didn’t work perfectly the first time.The heart of the episode centers on a sharp idea raised by Katy and Matt: too many destinations look, sound, and market themselves the same way. When every place talks about hidden gems, local breweries, great food, and off-the-beaten-path experiences, the work becomes generic. The result is marketing that may be polished, but rarely memorable.The group digs into why that happens. Fear plays a major role. Fear of stakeholders. Fear of elected officials. Fear of backlash. Fear of losing your job. Adam argues that many DMOs are stuck in “marketing by committee,” while Stuart pushes back that the real issue is not the committee itself, but the fear surrounding it.They also unpack the agency-client dynamic and whether agencies should be pushing destinations beyond their comfort zone. The consensus: absolutely yes. But the relationship is often set up in a way that rewards safe execution instead of bold thinking, especially through the RFP process.A few key themes emerge: • Great destination marketing needs a distinct point of view. • Emotional resonance matters more than a checklist of amenities. • Unique experiences are the true differentiator, not generic features and benefits. • DMOs need to protect and preserve what makes their communities different, or they will eventually have nothing original left to market. • The industry needs more outside perspective and should learn from brands beyond tourism.There’s also an important conversation about stewardship. Stuart makes the case that the DMO’s role is increasingly about being a convener, collaborator, and advocate for the long-term health of the destination, not just a promoter of hotel rooms and attractions. If economic development, placemaking, workforce, and tourism are all connected, DMOs need a seat at those tables.The episode closes with practical advice:Matt says fortune favors the bold, especially in a market where travelers are looking for genuine, distinctive experiences.Katy says the cure for boring marketing is a clear point of view rooted in authentic, emotional, real-world experiences.Adam says job security is often an illusion, and marketers need to stop letting fear keep them from doing the right work.Stuart says success starts with stronger relationships: with stakeholders, boards, elected officials, local businesses, and partner organizations across the community.This one is a candid, challenging conversation about creativity, courage, and why destinations that want to stand out can’t keep sounding like everyone else.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Alex Husner and Annie Holcombe from the Alex & Annie Podcast for a candid conversation about the evolving relationship between DMOs and the vacation rental industry.They start with Stu’s News and a timely discussion about Google building agentic AI directly into Chrome, using travel booking as one of the headline examples. That sparks a broader conversation about how quickly AI is moving from theory to reality, what “agentic” AI actually means, and why this shift could fundamentally change how travelers research, plan, and book trips. The group explores what happens when consumers stop visiting dozens of websites and instead rely on AI tools to surface options, make decisions, and potentially complete bookings on their behalf.From there, the conversation shifts into the main topic: vacation rentals, short-term rentals, and why they are still too often misunderstood or underrepresented in destination marketing. Alex and Annie explain the distinction they see between traditional vacation rentals in established leisure destinations and the broader short-term rental category that has exploded in urban markets. They also dig into how Airbnb has shaped public perception of the sector, often overshadowing the professionally managed operators that have long been part of many destination ecosystems.The discussion explores why so many DMOs and vacation rental operators are not working together more intentionally, even though both ultimately want the same thing: more visitors having a better experience in the destination. The group talks through the challenges of fragmentation, the lack of a unified voice for the vacation rental industry, and the tendency for destinations to lump all rentals together based on the behavior of a minority of bad actors.Along the way, they make the case that vacation rentals are not just another lodging category. In many destinations, they are essential to affordability, family travel, sports tourism, group travel, and the overall diversity of the lodging mix. The conversation also highlights the role DMOs can play in better representing that inventory, opening communication with operators, and advocating for fair, common-sense standards that protect both visitors and communities.It’s a lively episode about AI, tourism, representation, and why vacation rentals deserve a more intentional seat at the table.What you’ll hear in this episode:AI’s move into mainstream travel planning through Google ChromeA practical explanation of what agentic AI actually isWhy AI may reduce friction but not necessarily reduce stressHow traveler behavior could shift if websites matter lessThe difference between short-term rentals and vacation rentalsWhy Airbnb has shaped perception of the entire categoryHow professionally managed vacation rentals differ from casual hostsWhy DMOs and vacation rental operators often miss each otherThe role vacation rentals play in sports tourism, affordability, and group travelWhy better communication, representation, and advocacy could benefit the whole destinationCheck out the Alex & Annie Podcast to hear more conversations on vacation rentals, tourism, and the changing travel landscape.

This episode of Destination Discourse starts in the most on-brand way possible: with Christian Mengel joining live from the Kansas City airport, turning the conversation into a truly mobile edition of the show.After a quick round of banter and Stu’s News on Apple’s latest promises around Siri, the conversation shifts into a much bigger question for the destination industry: what is the real role of a DMO now?Christian brings three predictions for 2026, including more mergers and acquisitions, a growing importance of earned media, and a bigger conversation around how DMOs define their purpose. That opens the door to a candid discussion about whether destination organizations should think beyond traditional marketing and play a more active role in shaping experiences, supporting development, and filling gaps in their communities.The conversation gets especially interesting when the group wrestles with questions like:How far should a DMO go in helping create tourism product?Where is the line between promotion and participation?What happens when an industry can measure more than ever before, but still struggles to explain its value clearly?Throughout the episode, Stuart, Adam, and Christian explore the tension between relevance, risk, politics, and public trust. They talk about why so many DMOs feel like they are being targeted, why mission and values matter more than ever, and why communities are more likely to defend a DMO when they can clearly see the tangible benefits tourism brings to everyday life.A few major themes stand out:DMOs need to do a better job articulating not just what they do, but why they exist.Data matters, but stories are often what actually move stakeholders.The industry still lacks a shared blueprint for what a DMO should fundamentally be.If DMOs are not at the table when the future of a destination is being discussed, they risk being left out entirely.This is one of those episodes that asks more big questions than it answers, but that is exactly the point. It is an honest conversation about an industry in transition and a challenge to destination leaders to stop playing defense, get clearer on their purpose, and help shape what comes next.

A new (intentionally terrible) Stu’s News jingle makes its debut, January downloads surge, and Jason Holic of Experience Kissimmee shares how his team is stepping into water safety as part of destination stewardship.This episode moves beyond traditional demand generation and asks a bigger question: What is a DMO actually responsible for?⸻What You’ll Hear in This Episode • A brand-new Stu’s News jingle (British rapper vibes, Star Wars references, and mixed reviews). • January already surpassing December’s record downloads, with a 30-day run rate up 48% (per Stuart). • A listener comment sparks debate: Should DMOs try to own the travel decision-making cycle—even if they don’t control the transaction? • Stuart’s evolving view of the DMO as not just the “fuel,” but possibly the “mechanic” of the tourism engine. • Adam’s counterpoint: the job is to get attention and build trust—without chasing endless side quests. • Jason’s water safety initiative and what stewardship looks like in practice.⸻The Big Question: What Is a DMO’s Role?The conversation explores whether DMOs should: • Stick to demand generation. • Expand into experience and destination impact. • Take a more active role in long-term tourism vision. • Or simply focus on maximizing attention and converting it into trust.Public safety becomes the real-world test case for that debate.⸻Experience Kissimmee’s Water Safety InitiativeJason shares how the idea originated from a community conversation and evolved into a formal task force including: • Department of Health • Fire Rescue / EMS • Sheriff’s Office • School district • Vacation rental partners • A hotel partner • A water parkThe goal: address water safety proactively before it becomes a reputational crisis.The Framework: The ABCs of Pool SafetyJason references the traditional ABCs of pool safety: • A: Adult supervision • B: Barriers • C: Classes (swim lessons)The campaign focuses specifically on A and B, since swim classes aren’t realistic during a vacation stay.How They’re Delivering It • A short, simple PSA-style video. • Hosted on a landing page. • Visitors who complete the video can enter their email to receive exclusive offers from local attractions and restaurants. • Distribution primarily happens through vacation rental management companies via pre-arrival emails and text messaging.No heavy paid media. No large ad spend. Mostly partner collaboration and owned channels.⸻Myrtle Beach’s Water Safety ActivationStuart shares how Myrtle Beach approached water safety through: • Bringing in the world’s largest rubber duck during Water Safety Week. • Partnering with kid-focused creator Handyman Howe for a water safety video that generated significant viewership. • Creating a media-friendly hook to amplify the message.The takeaway: safety messaging can be serious—but it doesn’t have to be boring.⸻Other Themes from the Episode • The California Gold Rush analogy: maybe DMOs don’t “own the gold,” but they can add value along the journey. • The tension between measuring ROI and measuring impact in safety initiatives. • The importance of convening stakeholders—even if you don’t lead every initiative. • The idea that DMOs should be humble conveners rather than credit-seeking champions.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back industry legend Bill Geist for a no-nonsense masterclass on DMO board governance.The conversation starts with Stu’s News, exploring what OpenAI’s new ChatGPT Health product—and Google pulling back on AI health recommendations—signals about trust, adoption, and the future of AI verticals, including travel.Then Bill delivers his core thesis: every major DMO problem can be traced back to the board—and most boards struggle because they commit the same three deadly sins.Together, they break down: Why poor succession planning creates echo chambers How weak or nonexistent board orientation undermines advocacy Why overly choreographed meetings kill engagement and trust This episode is a must-listen for destination leaders navigating board dynamics, governance reform, political pressure, and the growing need for trust in a post-truth world.What you’ll hear in this episode Why trust is becoming the core currency for destinations How AI adoption mirrors what’s coming next for travel planning The three deadly sins of DMO boards—and how to fix them What an effective board orientation actually looks like Why healthy boards debate, not rubber-stamp How much conversation should happen in a board meeting When (and how) elected officials should be involved in governance The ideal board size for a destination organization

If you’ve ever felt like your DMO is five different organizations wearing the same logo… this episode will feel very familiar.Stuart and Adam welcome Danielle Hollander from Visit Orlando for her first appearance on Destination Discourse. After a slightly unhinged (and very “letter M”) opening, the conversation settles into something deeply practical: why DMOs so often feel siloed—and what it actually takes to fix that.Stu’s News: Travel didn’t crash—it just felt harderStuart kicks things off with a Bank of America report using Visa spend data showing that 2025 travel softened slightly compared to the post-pandemic highs, but is still stronger than 2019.So why did it feel rough? • Adam connects it to the labor market shift. When jobs feel less secure, people protect PTO and travel budgets. • Danielle points to return-to-office realities. Fewer “work from anywhere” trips means travel requires more planning and tradeoffs. • Stuart zooms out: the important signal is that travel is still prioritized, even if expectations need recalibration after the chaos of 2022–2023.The real conversation: DMOs don’t have one business model—and that’s the problemDanielle lays out something most DMOs feel but rarely say out loud:We’re marketing organizations, sales organizations, membership organizations, community organizations—and sometimes all at once.That complexity is exactly why silos form.She shares how Visit Orlando works intentionally against that: • A strategic plan that’s actually used, not just approved. • An annual theme (like “collaboration”) that becomes part of daily behavior. • Internal “Collaborama” sessions where teams explain what they do and how it affects everyone else. • Cross-functional planning where marketing, sales, events, and leadership hear the same strategy before tactics ever start.Strategy is making a comeback (thanks, AI)Adam argues that we’re in the middle of a strategic reset. As AI makes tactics easier and cheaper, the real differentiator is no longer execution—it’s thinking.His agency’s biggest unlock in 2025?Assigning a clear initiative owner for major work—someone responsible for the outcome, not just their slice of the process. The result: better work, less confusion, and people discovering leadership potential they didn’t know they had.How Orlando keeps everyone focused on the same winStuart asks the key question: How do different teams know they’re winning together?Danielle walks through Visit Orlando’s approach: • A small set of org-level goals approved by the board. • Incentives tied to those goals—from the C-suite down. • Team goals that clearly ladder up. • Monthly reviews that force honest conversations about what’s working and what’s not.Agencies aren’t vendors—they’re part of the systemOne of the most practical parts of the episode is Danielle’s breakdown of how Visit Orlando evaluates agencies: • Input from multiple internal departments. • Agency self-evaluations. • Required written justification for scores. • Formal feedback, improvement plans, and documentation that stands up in audits.The takeaway: no surprises, no finger-pointing, and no silos—internal or external.2026 focus: Elevate by doing less, betterFor Danielle, the goal this year isn’t more innovation—it’s more discipline: • Clear ownership using RACI. • Fewer tactics (“pick three”). • Built-in recaps so learning doesn’t disappear. • More time for teams to think instead of react.Her litmus test?If you can’t explain the initiative like an award entry, you probably don’t understand it well enough yet.The big takeawayBreaking silos isn’t about org charts.It’s about shared strategy, clear ownership, honest scorecards, and treating partners like part of the same team.And as Danielle puts it: the real competition isn’t the destination down the road—it’s the couch.Resources mentioned in this episode Agency Evaluation ScoresheetA cross-functional framework for evaluating agency performance across strategy, communication, operations, and accountability.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z6Sdo4339Yu53kxP6pZ2W0BwgnyBFON2/edit Universal Project Brief (Visit Myrtle Beach)A strategic alignment tool used to define the “why,” success metrics, and ownership before work begins, inspired by the “write the press release first” approach.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OrYwuR-irFtm6VWeLG5hU7_ClstjpkzZ/edit Resources mentioned in this episode Agency Evaluation Scoresheet A cross-functional framework for evaluating agency performance across strategy, communication, operations, and accountability. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z6Sdo4339Yu53kxP6pZ2W0BwgnyBFON2/edit Universal Project Brief (Visit Myrtle Beach) A strategic alignment tool used to define the “why,” success metrics, and ownership before work begins, inspired by the “write the press release first” approach. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OrYwuR-irFtm6VWeLG5hU7_ClstjpkzZ/edit Resources mentioned in this episode Agency Evaluation Scoresheet A cross-functional framework for evaluating agency performance across strategy, communication, operations, and accountability. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z6Sdo4339Yu53kxP6pZ2W0BwgnyBFON2/edit Universal Project Brief (Visit Myrtle Beach) A strategic alignment tool used to define the “why,” success metrics, and ownership before work begins, inspired by the “write the press release first” approach. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OrYwuR-irFtm6VWeLG5hU7_ClstjpkzZ/edit Resources mentioned in this episode Agency Evaluation Scoresheet A cross-functional framework for evaluating agency performance across strategy, communication, operations, and accountability. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z6Sdo4339Yu53kxP6pZ2W0BwgnyBFON2/edit Universal Project Brief (Visit Myrtle Beach) A strategic alignment tool used to define the “why,” success metrics, and ownership before work begins, inspired by the “write the press release first” approach. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OrYwuR-irFtm6VWeLG5hU7_ClstjpkzZ/edit

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler (Visit Myrtle Beach) and Adam Stoker (Brand Revolt) record live at the South Carolina Governor’s Conference on Tourism.Instead of a traditional presentation, they brought the podcast format to the stage.No slides.No scripted panel.Just live audience polling and an open conversation about what’s really happening in the tourism industry.It’s a different environment than it was just a few years ago. Consumer behavior is evolving. Expectations are rising. Technology and AI are reshaping how travelers discover and choose destinations. At the same time, communities are asking harder questions about growth and impact.So Stuart and Adam started by asking the room to weigh in.Through live polling, attendees voted on: • The biggest challenges facing tourism professionals right now • What’s shifting in their communities • The issues that aren’t being talked about enough • The capabilities destinations will need moving forwardThe top responses shaped the rest of the session.What followed was a candid, unscripted discussion with real input from operators, destination leaders, and public officials in the room.This episode isn’t about bold predictions or polished answers. It’s about where the industry stands right now — and what it will take to navigate what’s ahead.If you work in destination marketing, hospitality, attractions, or public leadership, this conversation is for you.

Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker kick off the episode shaking off post-holiday rust with their signature mix of self-awareness, banter, and big-picture thinking. A deliberately terrible German intro, a mistranslated last name, and a few early laughs set the tone before welcoming Eddie Kirsch from Visit St. Pete Clearwater—a guest who sits at the intersection of storytelling, data, and performance.The conversation opens with Stu’s News, sparked by Amazon’s move to introduce a chat-based version of Alexa. Stuart frames it as another signal that the AI landscape is fragmenting fast, while Adam argues that being first to market rarely means being the long-term winner. With Google, Amazon, and others embedding AI directly into tools people already use every day, the group questions whether ChatGPT can realistically hold dominant market share over time. Eddie brings the discussion down to earth for DMOs, noting that destinations redesigning websites today must plan for how people will interact with information in 2027 and beyond—not just how they search right now.That naturally leads into a spirited detour on the upcoming World Cup. Eddie shares both excitement and frustration as a lifelong soccer fan, particularly around pricing and access. Stuart doesn’t hold back, calling the ticketing process broken and warning destinations against overhyping long-term economic impact—something the industry has done repeatedly with mega-events. Adam pushes back slightly, citing record demand and arguing the World Cup won’t be a flop, even if projections should be treated cautiously. The segment ends with a surprisingly important question: what will be America’s cultural “export” to global soccer—our version of the vuvuzela?The heart of the episode centers on Eddie’s core idea: if a DMO were built from scratch with no legacy constraints, it would likely look far more like a media production company than an advertising buyer. He challenges the industry’s obsession with short-term attribution and KPIs, arguing that content’s real value often compounds over time in ways traditional models fail to capture. Social platforms, YouTube, and long-form content increasingly shape traveler decisions, yet DMOs still struggle to measure—and therefore justify—serious investment in them.Adam connects that tension to funding structures and annual budget cycles, which reward immediate proof over long-term “cathedral thinking.” He outlines his evolving framework—attention plus trust plus circumstances equals action—and argues that destinations should focus less on proving direct bookings and more on earning attention and trust over time. Stuart builds on that by reframing content as the tool for attention, experience as the driver of trust, and data as the context that makes both effective.The episode closes with one of its spiciest takes: Stuart and Eddie largely agree that generic travel influencers are often a poor investment for DMOs. Instead, they argue destinations should partner with creators outside the travel space—people with loyal, niche audiences—and invite them to bring their existing content style to the destination. The result, they suggest, is more differentiated storytelling, less competition for attention, and content that continues to drive impact long after the campaign ends.As always, the conversation doesn’t land on a neat conclusion—and that’s the point. This episode is about surfacing real tensions DMOs face right now: short-term accountability versus long-term relevance, measurement versus meaning, and advertising versus storytelling.

It’s the first recording of 2026, and Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back Emily Zertuche for round three. After a quick (and rusty) start, they dive into a timely question: as agentic AI accelerates, are DMOs’ fragmented data stacks and inconsistent narratives becoming a credibility risk?Using a Stu’s News example (L’Oréal’s partnership with NVIDIA), the conversation explores how major brands are embedding AI across operations to personalize experiences, scale content, and deepen first-party data relationships. The discussion quickly turns to destinations: if AI agents can cross-check claims across multiple sources, DMOs may need a far more defensible, coherent “single source of truth” across metrics, messaging, and governance.Emily introduces the idea of a “Coherence OS” for DMOs—an operating model that aligns tech, metrics, and narrative into one clear, trustworthy story. She outlines practical steps for addressing the industry’s growing data hangover, including auditing zombie metrics, publishing transparent metrics in AI-crawlable formats, moving past vanity metrics, and stress-testing narratives before stakeholders or AI agents do it for you.Along the way, the group runs a live AI experiment asking different tools the same question (“What’s the best family-friendly beach destination?”), revealing how results—and even categories—change by user and platform. The takeaway: we’re entering an era of “bubbles of truth,” where consistency and credibility matter more than ever.The episode closes with a candid discussion about trust, governance, and the uncomfortable reality that many boards already know which metrics are “BS.” As AI scrutiny increases, DMOs that rely on smoke, mirrors, or incoherent reporting may find themselves exposed—while those that prioritize clarity, transparency, and causal measurement will be better positioned to lead.⸻Key concepts you’ll hear • Data hangover: over-accumulated data without a unifying narrative • Zombie metrics: data collected out of habit that no one uses • Coherence OS: aligning metrics, tech, and story into one defensible narrative • The Whiskey & Coke test: proof + narrative, separable under scrutiny • Why AI will find the contradiction—and route around it

Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Amir Eylon (Longwoods International) broadcasting from “Snowmageddon Aftermath” in Ohio to talk about what matters beyond the AI headlines. Yes, they still touch AI, including early chatter about ads inside ChatGPT and what that could mean for destinations. But the heart of the conversation is a 2026 reset: get back to basics, remember why people travel, and build marketing (and stakeholder comms) that makes people feel something.Amir shares fresh readouts from Longwoods’ American Travel Sentiment Tracker: demand is still strong, but uncertainty is everywhere. Travelers are still planning trips, yet financial anxiety is rising, and the middle is getting squeezed. The opportunity, he argues, is to double down on emotional connection, regional drive markets, and storytelling that cuts through the noise.The trio also flips the lens inward: DMOs are often great storytellers in-market, but show up to stakeholder meetings with logic-first “data dumps.” They unpack why stories should lead and numbers should support, and Stuart shares a Myrtle Beach example where one influencer video did more to change a city council member’s perspective than any report ever could.What you’ll hear in this episode • Why 2026 is a “back to basics” year: togetherness, escape, and emotional needs driving travel • What Longwoods is seeing: strong intent to travel, but growing financial pressure and a squeezed middle • The rise of regional/drive travel and how “more trips” may look like more getaways • A practical watchlist: gas-price “sweet spots,” unemployment by feeder market, and household debt as a leading indicator • The marketing warning: over-optimizing for performance can starve the emotional storytelling that actually moves people • The creative gut check: stop making collage ads that list assets; start telling human stories people see themselves in • “18 Summers” (Idaho) as the gold-standard example of emotion-first destination storytelling • Stakeholder comms 101: make them feel something first, then use data as proof • Quick AI thread: ChatGPT ads could increase urgency for DMOs to align content, truth, and narrative consistencyMemorable lines / themes • “Travel has become a need versus a want.” • “You want to be the winning DMO? Get their heartstrings better than your competitor.” • “The data should be the supporting material when you tell that story.”

Stuart and Adam open with a quick Miracle Morning check-in (45 days strong) and a reminder that early wins matter before work even starts. In Stu’s News, they unpack Steve Hill’s optimistic comments about Las Vegas tourism despite recent declines, and debate whether bold confidence is leadership or risk.Then the main event: predictions for 2026 submitted by “the Desties” (plus a few familiar friends of the show). Themes recur fast: AI needs to show real ROI, adoption is lagging behind capability, trust is becoming the central product, creativity can’t be sacrificed for “organization,” and DMOs must challenge the status quo or risk becoming irrelevant.⸻Predictions featured (and the debate around them) • Tim Peter: Executives will demand AI shows up in revenue or savings (“AI is everywhere except the P&L”).Take: Full agreement—2026 is the “prove ROI” year; teams must document impact. • Tim Peter: AI shopping/buying funnels still aren’t fully there; impact may be slower than expected.Take: Tech may be ready, adoption may not. Trust is the barrier. • Emily Zertucci: Winners won’t be biggest campaigns; they’ll build trusted destination knowledge layers + governance + AI-trustworthy content.Take: Adam pushes back on “either/or”—you need both organization and creativity. • MMGY team via Katie Briscoe: “Middle class gap”—industry is over-focused on luxury; missing the volume/value market.Take: Strong agreement. Value storytelling + merchandising matters in a K-shaped economy. • MMGY team via Katie Briscoe: “Anti-event traveler”—market to residents escaping disruption from major events.Take: A real niche opportunity, and AI may make it scalable to target + personalize. • Brad Dean (Visit St. Louis): 2026 = “year of the overcomer”: modest growth, but winners gain efficiency and ditch “married to the past.”Take: Key nugget: efficiency + refusing “because we’ve always done it.” Extend collaboration beyond the DMO. • Jeanette Roush (Brand USA): Signals from Google mean: worry less about formatting; prioritize original POV content.Take: “No notes.” Unique, first-person content that makes people feel something wins. • Jeanette Roush (Brand USA): Algorithmic pricing spreads beyond airlines into destinations; backlash when wealthy pay more.Take: Might happen later than 2026; if it does, transparency will be required. Likely OTA-led. • Dan Janes (Madden Media): Trust-seeking becomes the decision driver; AI + human content symbiosis grows.Take: Trust is the “product” after attention. Hallucinations + paywalls create risk and require verification habits. • Dan Janes (Madden Media): Agency consolidation accelerates; performance focus rises + a new era of scaled independents.Take: Both see it already—M&A activity is hot. • C.A. Clark (Miles): Most will use AI to do the same work faster; leaders will do new things they couldn’t do before with AI.Take: Stuart agrees but thinks the leader group will be tiny in 2026 due to trust + adoption friction. Big debate on whether the “gap” becomes uncatchable.⸻Quotables (for social clips/episode page) • “AI is everywhere except the P&L.” (Tim Peter, quoted by Adam) • “Anytime every ad is saying the same thing, none of the ads will work.” • “Action is not usually the result of a logical explanation, it’s the result of an emotion.” • “We’ve got to challenge the status quo… or we’re going to be so irrelevant that no one will defend why you exist anymore.” • “Be obsessed with the people we serve… and challenge the status quo.”⸻Key themes that tie the episode together 1. AI must produce measurable outcomes (time saved, costs avoided, revenue influenced). 2. Adoption lags capability (trust + friction are the blockers, not just features). 3. Creativity remains the differentiator (avoid “homogenous AI slop”). 4. Trust becomes the battleground (hallucinations, paywalls, verification habits). 5. Value markets matter (don’t abandon the middle while chasing luxury). 6. 2026 rewards reinvention (efficiency + letting go of “we’ve always done it”).⸻Practical takeaways for DMOs • Build an internal AI ROI scoreboard: hours saved, cycle time reduced, vendor spend reduced, leads influenced. • Pair “destination knowledge layer” work with creative output—don’t trade one for the other. • Run a value-forward merchandising test: budget itineraries, bundles, shoulder-season “value weeks,” and “how to travel smart” content. • Pilot an anti-event traveler campaign in 1–3 nearby disruption markets. • Require verification for AI-assisted research: click sources, watch paywall limitations, corroborate before stakeholder use. • Audit calendars for “because we’ve always done it” tasks and prune aggressively.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker dig into Adam’s 2026 resolutions for destination marketers. Rather than rehashing Adam’s full resolutions episode from the Destination Marketing Podcast, the conversation pulls out the most important ideas and stress-tests them through debate, real-world examples, and a healthy dose of humor.The discussion centers on what DMOs can truly control, how relevance should be defined and measured, and why the industry needs to rethink both its metrics and its talent models as AI accelerates change across marketing.⸻Stoops NewsAdam opens with a shout-out to a new destination podcast worth paying attention to: • Kristen Reynolds, known for her work at Discover Long Island and the Long Island Tea podcast, has helped launch a new show in Chicago: All for the Love of Chicago from Choose Chicago. • The Long Island Tea podcast stood out because it was conversational and entertaining rather than sales-driven. • The hope is that the Chicago podcast carries forward that same spirit and continues raising the bar for destination-owned media.Adam’s 2026 resolutions (and the debate they spark)Attention, trust, and the limits of controlAdam introduces a simple but provocative framework: Attention + Trust + Circumstances = Action. • Attention matters more than basic awareness in an oversaturated media environment. • Trust is the real currency DMOs trade in as the source of truth for their destination. • Circumstances—timing, budget, life events—ultimately determine whether someone takes action, and those factors are outside a DMO’s control.This sparks a long debate about whether “circumstances” belongs in a prescriptive model at all. The underlying tension highlights a broader industry issue: DMOs often optimize reporting around outcomes they influence but do not fully control, particularly conversions.⸻True relevance vs. vanity metricsA major theme of the episode is the difference between activity that looks good on paper and outcomes that actually matter. • Many DMOs rely on metrics that create the illusion of effectiveness. • Eventually, stakeholders ask the harder question: if everything is working, why aren’t the results showing it?The conversation pushes toward first-principles thinking: • Why does the organization exist? • Who is the real customer? • What does success actually mean for this community?There is also recognition that macroeconomic and geopolitical forces heavily influence visitation, making relative performance (market share, outperforming peers) a more honest measure than raw totals alone.⸻Making stakeholder engagement a marketing pillarAnother resolution focuses on how DMOs communicate their value to residents, businesses, and elected officials. • Stakeholders should be treated as a real audience with intentional messaging, not just periodic reporting. • Clear alignment on relevance has to come first—otherwise, louder communication can actually erode trust.The episode explores scrappy, practical ways DMOs can engage stakeholders without relying heavily on paid media, including earned media, partnerships, and regular local appearances.Why earned media is rising in importanceEarned media is elevated as a priority, particularly in an AI-influenced discovery environment. • Third-party credibility signals appear to matter more than ever. • Being referenced, cited, or discussed by authoritative sources builds trust in ways owned media alone cannot.A practical takeaway emerges: journalists are stretched thin, and destinations that help them do better work—by offering strong story angles rather than fully baked press releases—are seeing higher engagement and better results.⸻From tactician to strategistThe most future-focused resolution centers on people and organizational mindset. • Tactical execution is increasingly commoditized. • AI will handle more of the “doing.” • The highest value will come from strategic thinking, problem solving, and first-principles reasoning.The episode emphasizes scrappiness, comfort with uncertainty, and learning through failure. If teams aren’t occasionally uncomfortable, they likely aren’t stretching far enough to stay relevant.Why this episode mattersThis conversation isn’t about chasing trends or predicting specific tools. It’s about recalibrating how destination organizations think—about influence versus control, relevance versus optics, and strategy versus execution.It’s a candid look at what needs to change for DMOs to remain credible, trusted, and effective heading into 2026.

Stuart and Adam start off completely off the rails, then do something they don’t usually do: hand the keys to their guest. Dustin Rowe, CEO of whatsgood.city, flips the script and asks the questions that a lot of people entering the industry are thinking but rarely get to ask out loud.This episode turns into a rapid-fire tour through the DMO reality: what the job actually is, why ROI is so hard to prove, how resident sentiment fits into the visitor economy, and where “marketing” ends and “product” begins.Dustin’s “Stu’s News”: the airline loyalty backlashDustin brings a story that’s catching heat online: American Airlines no longer lets customers earn miles on Basic Economy (for new bookings). Adam doesn’t get the logic and argues it removes a reason to stay loyal. Stuart plays devil’s advocate and suggests the airline likely ran the numbers and decided the tradeoff was worth it, even if customers complain. Then Stuart admits he doesn’t actually like the change at all and was just enjoying the debate.What DMOs do, and why it’s hard to explainDustin shares that friends and family often don’t understand what a DMO is, and the only time they notice is when public funding hits the news. Adam frames the DMO role as building a long-term, sustainable economic pillar for the community through tourism. Stuart admits the industry has a branding problem because “if you’ve seen one DMO, you’ve seen one DMO,” and that ambiguity could come back to bite. He describes DMOs as sitting at the intersection of government, residents, businesses, and stakeholders, protecting and growing the visitor economy while managing the balance between tourism’s positives and negatives.The ROI problem: marketing that doesn’t own the transactionDustin asks the big one: how do you prove ROI on long-term projects like Traveling the Spectrum versus tactical channels like paid search and social ads? Stuart says it requires assumptions, stakeholder education, and defining what you can measure upfront—reach, earned media, cultural conversation, and anecdotal signals from surveys and visitor feedback. Adam adds his hunting versus farming analogy: stakeholders love “hunting” because it’s measurable, but “farming” builds residual value that can last for years, even decades.Backlash, risk, and the Reddit lessonDustin asks whether DMOs have experienced marketing backlash. Adam says a lot of pushback is just anti-tourism sentiment in certain communities rather than controversy from creative. Stuart tells a story about two Reddit campaigns: one that leaned into AI satire and went viral in a good way, and another that tried to poke fun at Gen Z culture and got shut down quickly because it was perceived as punching down. The lesson: risk can pay off, but satire has rules.Locals vs visitors: are DMOs missing the resident opportunity?Dustin pushes on whether DMO content—especially event information—should be designed for locals as much as visitors. Stuart says Visit Myrtle Beach needs to do a better job talking to residents and building civic pride, especially around downtown events and community participation. Adam makes the case that residents are one of the biggest drivers of visitation because visiting friends and relatives is such a large portion of travel, and it’s backwards that many funding structures restrict in-market messaging. Stuart agrees residents matter, but argues DMOs shouldn’t try to do it alone; it takes a coordinated ecosystem with city, county, chambers, and partner organizations.Product vs marketing: what really drives reputationTo wrap, Dustin asks how they think about destination product versus destination promotion. Stuart says the experience is the main thing—marketing can influence, but the on-the-ground product determines whether people return and tell friends. He argues DMOs should increasingly be involved in product and experience, not just promotion. Adam keeps it simple: as marketing sophistication increases, investment and focus on product should rise right alongside it.ClosingThey close with how to find Dustin and tease seeing people at February conferences. Then the conversation keeps going after the “official” outro with candid advice to Dustin on how to grow a vendor business in this industry: lean hard into testimonials, simple case studies, and asking for warm introductions—because trust and relationships are the real currency.

Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker kick off 2026 with a New Year’s episode built around Stuart’s “predictions” (not resolutions). They open with optimism (and a little healthy fear) about uncertainty, talk about the industry’s need for more honest conversations, invite listeners to two live appearances in Q1, and then dig into three big predictions for the destination marketing world in 2026: the DMO website won’t “die” this year (but the shift is real), consolidation will accelerate across vendors and DMOs, and experiences will increasingly outrank destinations as the primary travel motivator.Stu’s NewsInstead of a traditional news item, Stu’s News is an invitation: • Live appearance #1: South Carolina Governor’s Conference — Tuesday, February 10 (in Myrtle Beach, SC) • Live appearance #2: Destinations International Marcom Summit for Destinations — February 24–26 (they expect to speak on Thursday, February 26) • Stuart and Adam frame these as chances to bring real discourse to conference stages, pushing beyond “safe” programming and into the tougher conversations the industry needs.⸻The 3 predictions for 20261) AI won’t kill the DMO website in 2026 (but the era is changing)Stuart’s headline take: DMO websites won’t be “dead” within 12 months, but “it is the end of the beginning” for the traditional website-driven model.Key points discussed: • Humans are the bottleneck: capabilities are racing ahead, but adoption lags. • Website traffic decline is real, especially organic traffic, but much of what’s lost is low-value “simple Q&A” traffic now answered directly in search experiences. • DMOs shouldn’t panic, but they also shouldn’t pause preparation: start planting now (lean into conversational commerce and new user journeys). • Adam reframes it like an investment strategy: even if the website still performs, you diversify before the market shifts.2) Massive consolidation is coming (vendors and DMOs)Stuart predicts consolidation on “both sides of the fence”:Vendor side • Budget pressure on DMOs squeezes agencies, platforms, and software providers. • Stuart argues the current ecosystem is too fragmented and consolidation could create more cohesive product suites. • Adam agrees consolidation is inevitable (especially in SaaS), but worries consolidation could reduce the nimble, high-touch benefits of smaller agencies—and potentially slow innovation if done poorly. • Both agree: if consolidation happens, it needs to be additive and accelerate innovation, not stall it.DMO / community side • Stuart predicts growing consolidation through regional alignment, collaboration, and potentially mergers, driven by two scarcities: • Money • Human capital (the workload is expanding faster than staffing can) • He expects more “radical collaboration” across tourism, economic development, downtown/placemaking, realtor groups, etc. • Adam strongly agrees tourism and economic development being separate is often a miss, and gives an example from Utah where visitors don’t experience the boundaries between jurisdictions, yet the organizations are structurally split and duplicating efforts. • Stuart adds Myrtle Beach-area context: consumers don’t differentiate between lines on a map, so alignment matters.3) Experiences will replace destinations as the primary driverStuart’s most provocative concept: 2026 may be “the beginning of the end for the destination”—meaning the brand pull shifts toward experiences, moments, and events.Highlights: • Travel decisions increasingly start with a concert, a game, a viral restaurant, or something seen on social media, not “I want to go to X destination.” • Stuart shares examples of experience-driven demand (viral food spots, status posts, even hate-posts driving curiosity). • The implication: DMOs may need to re-embrace roles they’ve moved away from, including: • Experience curation • Product development influence (helping stakeholders “up their game”) • Event promotion and/or creation • Truth-bearing / trust-building as the source of what’s legit and worth doing • They agree this topic deserves a full standalone episode.Memorable moments & themes • “This is not financial advice, this is not legal advice” (Stuart jokingly sets the tone for predictions). • The “humans are the bottleneck” thread runs throughout the AI conversation. • “Radical collaboration” is positioned as more important than who gets credit. • A running joke about needing a new Stu’s News jingle by 2026 (and maybe flying cars too).What’s nextThey tee up several upcoming 2026-focused episodes: • An episode featuring submitted predictions from industry peers • Adam’s resolutions/predictions episode • A future episode with Amir discussing trends not strictly tied to AI

It’s a festive Destination Discourse that turns into a full-on industry thought exercise. Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back Emily Zertuche (record-setting past guest) for a Christmas episode that starts with meta-glasses and “Stu’s News” lyrics finally appearing on YouTube… then quickly escalates into a serious conversation about “data hangovers,” measurement overload, and why DMOs struggle to answer the simplest question in the boardroom: Did it work?Emily argues the problem isn’t a lack of data. It’s a lack of narrative coherence and governance across an increasingly messy data stack. She introduces the “whiskey and Coke test” for communication: boards don’t want an over-sweetened cocktail of metrics, they want a simple, defensible truth. The group debates attribution, false precision, and how AI will soon act like a prosecutor cross-examining discrepancies across dashboards and vendor reports.Then Emily goes for the sacred cow: she says the marketing funnel is a foundational conceptual error for destination marketing because vacations don’t behave like checkout flows. Travel decisions are messy, probabilistic, and shaped by circumstance. That pushes the conversation toward counterfactuals (“what if we did nothing?”), humility, and ranges instead of single ROI numbers.They wrap by calling it an existential issue for the industry, and invite more people into the conversation. Emily’s homework: go figure it out and come back in early January.⸻What you’ll hear in this episode • A chaotic Christmas intro, eggnog energy, and the debut of Stu’s News lyrics on YouTube (because Stuart didn’t realize Zoom exports could include screen share). • Meta glasses talk: capturing content hands-free, plus the “creepy” reality of audio + AI + ad targeting. • Stu’s News topic: Thailand’s “Half and Half” domestic travel subsidy and the idea of governments paying people to travel, plus discussion of whether incentives could ever apply to leisure travel. • Emily’s big thesis: DMOs have a “data hangover” from too many tools, dashboards, vendors, and definitions. • The boardroom moment of truth: “Did it work?” and why it’s so hard to answer coherently. • Emily’s framing: this is not just a data problem, it’s a meaning problem and a narrative problem. • The “whiskey and Coke test”: if you can’t explain the system simply, it loses legitimacy. • Funnel vs field: vacations behave like weather and probability, not a linear cause-and-effect funnel. • Counterfactuals and incrementality: what would have happened without the spend? • The danger of false precision (single ROI numbers) vs the honesty of ranges and assumptions. • The AI warning: stakeholders will use tools like ChatGPT/Gemini to find discrepancies and expose narrative-first reporting. • The prescription: govern the data stack (vendor layer → modeling layer → narrative layer) so the story is coherent, honest, and defensible.⸻Key quotes and concepts (verbatim from the transcript) • “Data hangover.” • “Did it work?” • “Measurement capacity has outrun our narrative coherence.” • “If a system can’t explain itself simply… it will eventually lose legitimacy.” (the “whiskey and Coke test” idea) • “False precision is so much more dangerous than uncertainty, because it’s a lie!” • “We’re not here to sell a number, we’re here to sell the logic that produced the number.” • Funnel critique: travel decisions are “spaghetti” (and even “spaghetti with maple syrup”). • Counterfactual framing: the honest question is “What if we did nothing?” • AI as prosecutor: it will cross-examine discrepancies across reports and dashboards.⸻Listener takeaways • If you can’t answer “Did it work?” in a way a board member can repeat, your measurement system is a risk—not an asset. • You don’t need more dashboards. You need governance and a narrative hierarchy that explains assumptions and uncertainty. • Stop treating destination decisions like e-commerce conversions. Travel influence is probabilistic and delayed. • If your reporting relies on cherry-picked metrics or “real data” claims, assume AI will expose it soon. • Credibility comes from assumptions + logic + ranges, not one magic ROI number.

Stuart and Adam open with Stu’s News on Australia’s move to restrict social media accounts for users under 16 on certain platforms, sparking a quick sidebar on parenting, addiction-by-design, and whether similar policy could ever happen in the U.S.Then the episode pivots hard into the main topic: a true “red pill” conversation about paid media transparency in the destination industry.Zeek Coleman returns with a surprise announcement: he’s leaving Tourism Economics to become President of Ad+genuity. From there, the three unpack the uncomfortable realities of programmatic buying, including incentives, margins, fraud, waste, premium inventory, and why DMOs can’t afford to hide behind vanity metrics if they want to defend funding and prove real impact.⸻Stu’s News (not the main topic) • Australia restricts social media accounts for certain platforms for users under 16, shifting enforcement burden to the platforms. • Stuart and Adam talk candidly about parenting in a social media era and how hard it is to manage phones and social pressure. • A broader debate emerges on government’s role in protecting kids versus leaving it solely to parents.⸻Main topicThe surprise announcement • Zeek announces he’s leaving Tourism Economics and stepping into the President role at Ad+genuity. • He frames the move as mission-driven: raising the bar for transparency, defensibility, and integrity in destination media.The red pill conversation • The group digs into how digital buying can create the appearance of success while hiding waste, fraud, and low-quality placements. • They discuss how the industry’s reliance on impressions and surface-level reporting can reinforce the “illusion of relevance.” • Stuart emphasizes the ecosystem problem: publishers, exchanges, buyers, and DMOs themselves can all play a role when hard questions aren’t asked.⸻Questions DMOs should ask their agency/media partners • Are you willing to share your margins and explain how you make money on my buy? • What fraud mitigation/verification are you paying for (and can you prove it’s used on our campaigns)? • How are you auditing and reducing waste in programmatic (middlemen fees, inefficient pathways, junk inventory)? • Can you provide a site list and show that you’re prioritizing premium, brand-safe environments? • How do you prevent obvious issues like stacked ads, repeated exposures, and in-market leakage?

Stuart and Adam kick things off with some lighthearted college sports trash talk before welcoming a very special guest co host, Diane Charno, EVP of Marketing at Visit Myrtle Beach and Stuart’s right hand. Together, the trio dig into one of the most uncomfortable questions in modern destination marketing, whether the almighty click still matters in a zero click, AI driven world, and what DMOs should be measuring instead.In Stu’s News, Diane brings a New York Times story about AI generated travel influencers and avatars. That sparks a wider conversation on the difference between influencers and true creators, how AI will reshape pricing and value in the creator economy, why celebrity likeness still dominates algorithms, and why authenticity and real human connection are becoming even more valuable as AI content floods the feed.From there, the group zooms out to the bigger issue behind the headline question, the evolving role of digital display in an era where DMO website traffic is dropping, cookies are fading, and partners are less impressed by raw clicks than ever. Adam introduces his “three legs of the stool” for paid media value, attention, stakeholder value, and targeting, and shows how each has eroded for traditional display. Diane explains how Visit Myrtle Beach is responding by rethinking how display fits in the full journey, layering it with other tactics, and using more sophisticated tools to measure attention and brand lift, not just clicks.The conversation then stretches into measurement, product, and purpose. The trio wrestle with what DMOs should really optimize for, why optimizing for CPM or raw clicks can lead you in the wrong direction, and how to build a more realistic measurement mix that includes visitation, visitor spend, brand lift, attention metrics, and search lift. They also go straight at the uncomfortable trade off, when is another chunk of media spend less valuable than investing the same dollars in product improvements on the ground, and what role DMOs should play in convening and informing product development rather than just promoting what already exists.They close by coming back to first principles. If a DMO cannot clearly explain why it exists and how it creates real impact for the economy, visitors, and residents, no amount of click reports will save it. The click is not dead, but lazy display, lazy testing, and lazy measurement should be. The mandate for the next few years, always be testing, obsess over impact, and get much sharper about which KPIs actually signal value for your stakeholders.In this episode, you will hear: • A fun opener on BYU vs Clemson and why Stuart is secretly delighted by the outcome • Diane’s Stu’s News story on AI travel influencers and why virtual avatars are reshaping the influencer debate • The difference between influencers and true creators, and why creators with real community will be hardest to replace • How AI generated video and avatars are flooding the feed, and why celebrity likeness still hacks the algorithm • Diane’s question, “Is the click dead?” and how zero click behavior, AI search, and walled gardens are changing website traffic patterns • Adam’s three legs of the media stool, attention, stakeholder value, and targeting, and how each is weakening for traditional display • Why “always be testing” needs to apply across paid, owned, and earned, not just banner creative • How Visit Myrtle Beach is experimenting with brand lift, attention metrics, and a brand lift index to understand impact across placements • The danger of optimizing for the wrong KPIs, like cheap CPMs or empty clicks, instead of incremental visitation and real partner value • The uncomfortable but necessary question, when is a dollar better spent on product improvement than on more media • Why DMOs need to be at the table for product conversations, using visitor data and insights to guide what gets built next • A call for every DMO to revisit its core purpose and focus relentlessly on impact, not vanity metrics or legacy habitsCall to actionHave a strong opinion about clicks, display, AI influencers, or what DMOs should be measuring next? Stuart and Adam want to hear from you. Reach out on LinkedIn or by email if you have a topic you think they are missing or a perspective that challenges the echo chamber, and you might be a future guest on Destination Discourse.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam are together in person in Myrtle Beach for the very first time, recording live from the Grand Strand. Stuart uses the conversation to think out loud about the last few episodes and where DMOs go from here, especially when it comes to who we really exist to serve and how that should shape the future.This is a reflective, slightly uncomfortable, very real conversation about focus, audiences, and how we spend both time and money. Stuart drops the Qui Gon Jinn line, “Your focus determines your reality,” and then applies it to the DMO world, questioning whether we are truly resident focused, or if that has become an easy narrative to justify our existence.Along the way, Adam puts Stuart on the spot and makes him rank order the audiences a DMO serves, forcing a candid conversation about residents, visitors, the business community, and elected officials, and what it would mean if we were honest about who gets priority.In this episode, Stuart and Adam discuss: Recording together in Myrtle Beach for the first time How the last few episodes have shifted Stuart’s thinking about the future of DMOs The gap between what DMOs say and what they actually do Which audiences DMOs serve and how to rank them Whether “we serve residents” is mission or marketing Why DMOs really serve the business community and elected officials today The argument for keeping visitors as the primary focus How resource allocation reveals true priorities The tension between political reality and long term brand building What it looks like to future proof the DMO model Key themes and ideas: Your focus determines your reality Stuart borrows the Qui Gon Jinn quote to frame the entire episode. If our focus is residents, our work, structure, and budget should prove it. If our focus is visitors, that should be just as clear. Either way, our calendars and our budgets tell the truth. Who do DMOs actually serve? Stuart challenges the increasingly popular “we exist to serve residents” story, asking whether it is always honest or whether it sometimes becomes a convenient narrative that plays well with elected officials. He argues that in practice most DMOs are primarily serving the business community and policymakers, whether they admit it or not. Putting the audiences in order Adam turns the tables and makes Stuart rank the audiences DMOs serve. Residents, visitors, local businesses, and elected officials all make the list, but the real value is in the debate about who should come first if you want a healthy, growing destination. Visitors as the primary focus Stuart makes the case that the visitor should still sit at the center of the DMO universe. If you attract the right visitors, deliver great experiences, and generate sustainable economic impact, you create the conditions where residents, businesses, and elected officials all benefit. Time and money as the real scorecard The conversation comes back several times to how DMOs spend their time and money. Strategy decks and mission statements are one thing, but line items and calendars are the real indicators of what a DMO believes its job to be. Rethinking the future of DMO work Building on the last few episodes, Stuart shares how his own thinking is evolving about the role of DMOs in a future that will look very different from today. The episode ends less with easy answers and more with a challenge for leaders to get honest about their priorities and design their organizations around that reality. Who this episode is for: DMO CEOs and executives wrestling with resident first narratives Board members and elected officials who want clarity on what a DMO actually does Marketing and community teams trying to balance political pressure and long term strategy Anyone who feels the DMO model is changing and wants language to talk about it Use this episode as a prompt to look at your own organization and ask: if someone only saw how we allocate our budget and time, who would they say we really serve?

In this Thanksgiving-week episode, Stuart and Adam shake off a few weeks of heavy, future-of-AI doom-spiraling and intentionally zoom out to focus on perspective, gratitude, and what truly matters in destination marketing. It’s lighter, more reflective, and full of listener shout-outs, industry appreciation, and some familiar banter.Opening BanterStuart kicks things off with an over-the-top Adam introduction that somehow escalates into unicycles, juggling, and bagpipes. The duo sets the stage for a short but sincere episode about gratitude heading into the holiday.Stu’s NewsThe update focuses on Gemini 3 Pro and the accelerating capabilities of frontier AI models. Stuart shares examples of AI building full software environments from a single prompt and reflects on how adoption might take longer than the technology curve suggests. He explains his shift in perspective—moving from fearing a near-term cliff to expecting a slow, multi-year adoption curve.A Level-Setting Conversation on Industry ChangeAdam reframes the urgency around AI: DMOs tend to adopt slowly, and the industry can’t afford to be passive this time. The hosts agree that the future is coming, the timeline is the only question, and the call is to be proactive without panic. Start turning the ship now, keep the North Star steady, and allow tactics to evolve.Thinking Beyond MarketingStuart revisits his “DMOs as the operating system for hospitality” concept and broadens the conversation into DMO value beyond promotion. Roles in economic development, workforce, meetings, placemaking, and collaboration emerge as central themes. The hosts highlight the need for first-principles thinking and cross-stakeholder alignment.Listener Appreciation and Community FeedbackThis episode features a full run of listener shout-outs from Spotify and past episodes. Highlights include:• Nate Graysock’s reflections on PTO culture and destination storytelling.• Caleb Sullivan’s “dance-off” challenge content.• Comments from Tyler Ford and Caleb on supply-chain thinking for visitor journeys.• Dustin Rowe’s question about social content value in the age of LLM indexing.The hosts invite more listeners to comment, review, and join future episodes with strong opinions and bold ideas.Gratitude ReflectionsStuart and Adam trade heartfelt thanks for:• The audience that keeps the show going 57 episodes in.• The guests who have stretched their thinking and shaped their leadership.• Their teams—who adapt to constant change and help bring ideas to life.• The CMO Jam cohort and the leaders willing to be vulnerable and collaborative.• An industry full of people who share openly, support one another, and rally in times of need.They also share personal anecdotes, including the LinkedIn message that sparked their partnership and the moments listening back to episodes when they learn from their “podcast selves.”Calls to ActionStuart and Adam ask listeners to:• Share show reviews on Apple Podcasts or comments on Spotify.• Spread the show on LinkedIn to help the industry learn and evolve together.• Submit burning topics or bold takes to join as future guests.• Watch on YouTube when possible for added visuals and community conversation.ClosingThe episode wraps with warm Thanksgiving wishes, a reminder that travel is an antidote to division, and an invitation for the industry to share predictions heading into the new year.

Stuart and Adam are joined by Brand USA’s Janette Roush for a provocative exploration of the question no one in tourism wants to ask out loud: what happens to DMOs when AI becomes the primary interface for travel inspiration, planning, and booking?The conversation pushes past hype and digs into the existential challenge ahead. If AI tools replace the website, the visitor guide, the itinerary builder, and even the discovery process itself, then DMOs must confront a hard truth: the traditional marketing-driven model will not survive the future that is coming.From sentient-feeling assistants and biometric-based trip recommendations to real-time destination data and frictionless booking layers, the group maps out how travel will be shaped and what roles disappear in an AI-governed world.The conclusion is both blunt and hopeful: DMOs can absolutely remain essential, but only if they evolve fast and focus on what AI cannot replace such as product, leadership, place-shaping, and real-world experience.⸻Key ThemesAI will consume the travel funnel. Inspiration, research, comparison, and booking collapse into a single AI-led conversation.The era of the destination website is fading. Search, navigation, content hierarchies, and CTAs become irrelevant when AI delivers answers instantly.DMOs face a serious risk of being cut out. Apps, OTAs, and platforms can plug their inventory directly into AI systems, reducing the surface area where destinations are discovered.True DMO value shifts from promotion to product. The things AI cannot replace become the differentiators: live events, sports, culture, infrastructure, hospitality, and on-the-ground experience.Data becomes the new visitor guide. DMOs must own and structure granular, real-time destination data so AI can reliably surface their place as an option.Community leadership becomes essential. DMOs must coordinate across government, residents, small businesses, and partners with far greater alignment and responsibility than ever before.Boards and stakeholders must be educated now. The future is arriving faster than governance models, budgets, and KPIs are prepared for.⸻Top QuotesStuart: “AI is going to plan the trip. The question is whether the DMO has a seat at that table.”Adam: “We have confused activity for relevance. AI is about to expose that.”Janette: “DMOs need to ask a basic question: why do we exist in a world where AI does the planning?”Stuart: “This is not a website conversation. It is a relevance conversation.”Adam: “Live events are the one thing AI cannot disintermediate.”Why This Might Be the Beginning of the EndThis moment does not signal the end of DMOs. It signals the end of what DMOs have historically been.The old model was built around promoting what already existed, driving traffic to a website, running campaigns, counting clicks, and operating somewhat on the sidelines of community decision-making.The new reality requires DMOs to build what is missing, provide structured data to AI systems, shape the destination itself, measure real impact instead of activity, and lead the ecosystem with intentionality and clarity.The episode argues that AI will eliminate the parts of DMOs that were never the point and elevate the parts that matter most: product development, cultural relevance, destination stewardship, and the real visitor experience.Action Items for DMO LeadersEducate boards and stakeholders about why AI changes everything and why legacy KPIs will not survive.Shift from producing content to producing structured, machine-readable information that AI can use.Invest more heavily in product and experience development, especially live events, arts, sports, culture, and visitor-facing quality improvements.Align the community by leading conversations across municipalities, businesses, residents, and public agencies.Audit current programs and strategies for AI vulnerability and identify what will not hold up in an AI-first ecosystem.Evolve into the place operating system by curating, aggregating, and orchestrating the full experience of the destination.

The game has changed, and not just for marketers. In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Kara Franker, CEO of the Florida Keys & Key West, for a candid conversation about how artificial intelligence is forcing DMOs to redefine their purpose.Kara argues that the future of destination marketing isn’t just about promotion, it’s about education. As AI transforms how travelers discover, plan, and book trips, DMOs must become teachers and translators, helping their stakeholders adapt to a new machine-readable world.Together, the trio explores: • Why even AI “early adopters” are struggling to keep up with the speed of change • How DMOs can shift from being channel owners to community educators • What it means to prepare local businesses for “agent-driven discovery” • How schema, structure, and storytelling make destinations visible to AI • Why job descriptions and success metrics must evolve beyond vanity metrics • The coming shift from paid to earned media in LLM search results • Why consolidation and radical collaboration may be the only path forwardKara shares how she’s helping Florida Keys stakeholders future-proof their digital presence, from captains to hoteliers, while Adam and Stuart debate how AI will upend the DMO business model.

This week on Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam dive into one of their most candid conversations yet, a real-time therapy session about the changing relationship between DMOs and agencies in the age of AI.The episode kicks off with Stu’s News and a jaw-dropping update: OpenAI now allows users to shop and pay for products directly inside ChatGPT. No clicks. No websites. Just conversation. Stuart calls it “the moment everything changes,” and Adam agrees this isn’t just about travel; it’s about everything.From there, Adam flips the script. For once, he brings the topic, and it’s personal. He opens up about the existential crisis facing agencies as automation erodes the tactical work they’ve always been paid for. If AI can plan, buy, and optimize campaigns in seconds, where does that leave human creativity?Together, Stuart and Adam explore: • Why the traditional agency model is breaking under the weight of AI. • How DMOs and vendors are now in the same fight for relevance. • The shrinking gap between in-house and agency talent. • What it looks like to rebuild relationships around ideation, not execution. • Why radical collaboration may be the only way forward. • And how to measure value when what you’re selling is thinking.Stuart challenges agencies to prove their worth through ideas instead of deliverables, and Adam asks how destinations can structure partnerships and RFPs that reward innovation instead of commoditization.It’s raw, honest, and maybe a little uncomfortable, but it’s exactly the kind of conversation the industry needs right now.Key Quote:“Agencies have always been paid for what they do. The future belongs to those who get paid for how they think.” — Adam Stoker

We promote the power of travel—but are we actually taking it ourselves? In this episode, Jennifer Walker from Visit Dallas challenges the tourism industry to practice what it preaches. With burnout on the rise and vacation days left unused, this candid conversation explores whether DMOs are setting the right example when it comes to rest, recovery, and experiencing their own destinations like a visitor.From mandated time off and immersive staff experiences to infinite PTO and internal culture shifts, Stuart, Adam, and Jennifer dive deep into what it really means to walk the walk in destination marketing—and why it might be time to make vacation not just encouraged, but expected.What You’ll Learn: • Why many tourism professionals struggle to take (or fully unplug during) vacation • Examples of organizations redefining vacation culture, from Visit Florida to Meet Minneapolis • The pros and cons of unlimited PTO—and how it actually plays out in practice • How internal culture impacts external credibility • Why every DMO should revisit its policies around travel, time off, and team well-beingFeatured Quote:“If we’re not going to be the advocates for travel, who is?” – Jennifer WalkerShoutouts:Jennifer also shares highlights from Visit Dallas’ “Maverick Can-Do Spirit” rebrand and how rolling it out locally first is fueling community-wide adoption.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, we’re joined by returning guest Caleb Sullivan and first-time guest Tyler Ford, an outsider from the automotive world who just might have the fresh perspective the tourism industry needs.The conversation kicks off with a lively debate about Las Vegas’s new “Five Days of Fabulous” campaign—is it a smart earned media play or a short-sighted brand devaluation? But the real shift happens when Tyler introduces a bold idea: What if DMOs started thinking like supply chain managers?Drawing lessons from the automotive industry, Caleb and Tyler challenge the traditional marketing funnel and offer a new lens for thinking about the visitor journey—one built on continuous improvement, systemic thinking, and the idea that every touchpoint in the destination contributes to the final “product.”We cover everything from earned media vs. fire sales, stakeholder pressure, and brand value, to the concept of marginal gains and the need for more rigor and process in tourism. Whether you’re tired of funnel thinking or looking for ways to operationalize destination management, this episode delivers a compelling new paradigm.⸻Topics Include: • Las Vegas’s “Fabulous” campaign: brand builder or brand buster? • What destination marketers can learn from automotive supply chains • Why “the funnel” fails modern tourism • Applying “The 5 Whys” and root-cause analysis to tourism challenges • How DMOs can expand their role beyond marketing to shaping the product

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam sit down with marketing strategist John Gardner to unpack a bold new framework for modern marketers: The Four I’s of Marketing — Intelligence, Individualization, Integration, and Inspiration. As traditional approaches like the Four P’s (Product, Price, Place, Promotion) lose relevance, this conversation explores how DMOs can better serve visitors and stakeholders in an AI-powered, experience-driven world.But first, in Stu’s News, Stuart shares a jaw-dropping story about AI outperforming humans in hurricane forecasting. As Myrtle Beach prepared for Hurricane Imelda, Google’s DeepMind model predicted the storm’s unusual turn days before traditional models caught up. It’s a clear sign of how AI is reshaping decision-making — and a hint at what’s coming for marketers, too.Referenced in Stu’s News: • Michael Lowry’s Substack: New AI Model Shines During Hurricanehttps://michaelrlowry.substack.com/p/new-ai-model-shines-during-hurricane • Tweet from @WeatherProf: “This is one of the most stunning hurricane model forecasts I’ve ever seen.”https://x.com/WeatherProf/status/1972646601718935778⸻What You’ll Learn: • Why the Four P’s may no longer cut it in today’s marketing landscape • How the Four I’s provide a framework for navigating disruption • The challenge (and opportunity) of individualization in the DMO world • What DMOs can learn from brands like Chick-fil-A and Dollywood • How to adapt your marketing team and strategy for an AI-driven future⸻Key Takeaways: • AI is already outperforming humans in high-stakes areas — marketing is next. • DMOs must go deeper into product and experience, not just promotion. • Individualization is hard but essential — and the tech is catching up fast. • Marketing teams must become AI-enabled generalists, not siloed specialists. • You don’t need all the answers to get started — move forward now.⸻Call to Action:If this episode challenged or inspired you, subscribe, share, and leave a review — and don’t forget to weigh in:Which Star Wars movie really is the best — Empire or Return of the Jedi? (Hint: Stuart has strong opinions.)

It’s the 50th episode of Destination Discourse, and Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker mark the milestone by taking a reflective walk through their biggest learnings and shifts in perspective since launching the show. In a heartfelt, humorous, and occasionally roast-filled conversation, they unpack how their thinking has evolved on three major fronts: the role of paid vs. owned media, the importance of measuring what truly matters, and how they now view the role of a DMO in the community.Along the way, they revisit some of their favorite guest moments—from Zeke Coleman’s red-pill data analogy to Will Seccombe’s cautionary tale about risk—and talk about how those insights have changed them as professionals. Adam surprises Stuart with a tribute to his recent Content Marketer of the Year award, and both hosts get vulnerable about their professional growth, podcast therapy moments, and the impact of building this community.Whether you’ve been listening since Episode 1 or you’re just discovering the show, this milestone episode captures exactly what makes Destination Discourse so unique: smart, unfiltered conversations about the real work of destination leadership.⸻🔑 Key Takeaways / Learning Objectives: • Discover how Stuart’s views on paid, earned, and owned media have shifted—and why he’s no longer so bullish on owned media alone. • Understand the deeper KPI conversation, including why community sentiment and team impact may matter more than traditional vanity metrics. • Hear how both hosts’ views on the role of a DMO have evolved—from marketers to strategic community collaborators. • Revisit favorite past episodes and the moments that changed their thinking—from data debates to leadership gold. • Reflect on the human side of leadership, risk-taking, and resilience—plus how podcasting itself can be a growth tool.⸻💬 Notable Quotes:“The only way we fail is if we give up.” – Stuart“Paid media is the vehicle for attention, but trust comes from owned storytelling.” – Adam“I don’t think we’re just marketers anymore—we’re conveners, collaborators, and catalysts.” – Stuart“This show has 10x’d my learning rate. I finally get what DMOs go through.” – Adam⸻📝 Additional Notes: • This is one of the most personal and reflective episodes yet—equal parts roast, recap, and real talk. • Includes a surprise segment where Adam flips the script and honors Stuart’s Content Marketer of the Year award. • A great primer episode for new listeners to understand the show’s mission—and for loyal fans to see how far it’s come. • Encouragement for listeners to suggest topics, share feedback, and even come on the show.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam sit down with Joe Heller, CMO of Discover Philadelphia, to tackle one of the biggest challenges facing DMOs today: how to break through the sea of sameness in meetings and conventions marketing.The conversation explores why traditional advertising often falls flat in the B2B space and how destinations can shift toward disruptive promotions and attention-grabbing tactics that make a lasting impression on meeting planners and attendees alike.Joe shares how Philadelphia approaches meetings and conventions with creative strategies—from airport takeovers to cheesesteak giveaways—and how DMOs can borrow lessons from SaaS companies to nurture leads and build stronger planner relationships. Stuart and Adam add their own experiences, from Myrtle Beach’s pickleball tournaments at trade shows to the power of AI tools that personalize outreach at scale.Key takeaways include: Why attention is more valuable than awareness in B2B marketing. How DMOs can use disruptive promotions to stand out at trade shows. The growing role of DMOs in filling attendance once an event is booked. What destinations can learn from SaaS lead-nurturing strategies. Why sales and marketing alignment is critical for winning and retaining events. If you’ve ever wondered how to make your destination stand out in the competitive meetings market, this episode offers practical ideas, candid examples, and fresh ways to rethink B2B marketing.CTA: Enjoying the show? Leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and share this episode with a colleague. It helps us keep pushing the industry forward.

This week’s episode goes deep into one of the most complex and often misunderstood conversations around artificial intelligence: its environmental impact. Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by returning guest C.A. Clark, who first appeared back in Episode 7 to talk about AI ethics. This time, the three pick up a conversation that started off-mic and turned into one of the most challenging, thought-provoking discussions we’ve had on the show.Before diving into the main topic, we kick off with Stu’s News and highlight Brand USA’s new “America the Beautiful” campaign website, built in collaboration with Mindtrip and Miles Partnership. The site uses conversational AI to blend search, social, and interactivity, pointing toward a future where destination websites become more dynamic, personalized, and conversational. We explore how this model could influence the way DMOs think about their digital ecosystems moving forward.From there, the focus shifts to the heart of the episode: AI’s environmental footprint. This issue has generated headlines, hesitation, and heated debate—but also a lot of confusion. Together, we dig into: • Context and comparisons – Why asking about AI’s carbon emissions without comparing them to activities like streaming Netflix, scrolling TikTok, or eating a hamburger can be misleading. • Scale vs. individual use – A single AI prompt may have the impact of a few seconds of TV, yet the aggregate demand across millions of users raises larger questions about infrastructure and power. • Efficiency gains – Google’s latest research shows AI models becoming 33 times more energy efficient and 44 times lower in carbon footprint in just a year, underscoring how fast improvements are happening. • Industry focus – Why some boards and organizations risk becoming distracted by environmental arguments, potentially at the expense of preparing for seismic shifts in consumer behavior driven by AI. • The bigger picture – How AI might not only consume energy but also help us optimize industries, reduce waste, and solve environmental challenges we’ve struggled to tackle for decades.Throughout the conversation, the three emphasize intellectual honesty over ideology. They call out the dangers of apathy, the risks of letting “AI fatigue” stall progress, and the need for DMOs to move beyond fear or excuses. Whether you’re an AI skeptic or already experimenting with it daily, this episode challenges you to think more deeply about the trade-offs, realities, and opportunities ahead.Key Takeaways: • AI is far from carbon-neutral, but its impact per use is smaller than many fear—and shrinking fast. • Environmental comparisons matter: a hamburger, a flight, or a Netflix binge has exponentially higher impact than a ChatGPT prompt. • The conversation should shift from fear to strategy: how will AI reshape consumer expectations, and what must DMOs do now to stay relevant? • Experimentation is no longer optional—leaders who avoid AI risk falling behind as the pace of change accelerates.Why listen?This episode embodies what Destination Discourse aims to do: have honest, nuanced conversations that the industry might shy away from, while pushing professionals to ask tougher questions and prepare for what’s next. It’s not about telling you what to think—it’s about giving you the context to think differently.If you find this episode valuable, share it with your colleagues, leave a review, and subscribe so you don’t miss future conversations shaping the future of destination marketing.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam are joined by Christian Mengel of St. Joseph CVB—who is not the dating site, despite the name—for a compelling discussion about what destination marketers can learn from the decline of traditional media.Christian brings his background in journalism to unpack how newspapers, TV, and radio lost their position as trusted sources, and how DMOs may be on a similar path if they don’t adapt to shifting consumer behavior and technology.They explore: • The new marketing equation: Attention + Trust = Success • Why a Tampa real estate agent’s viral home tours offer a masterclass in modern content strategy • How media lost control—and how AI threatens to do the same to DMOs • Why consistency, creativity, and community connection are the new currency • How to build coalitions of creators to shape narrative and build trust • Why you can’t just claim authenticity—you have to earn it • What Myrtle Beach is doing to future-proof its voice with a local Creator CollectiveThis episode is equal parts warning, wisdom, and inspiration for DMOs ready to evolve before it’s too late.Call to Action:If you’re in destination marketing, don’t keep this episode to yourself. Share it with a colleague, subscribe on your favorite platform, and join us in redefining what it means to be relevant in the AI era.

We brought Destination Discourse to the main stage at ESTO 2025 for a special live debate—and it did not disappoint. In this high-energy session, Stuart and Adam tackled two provocative questions shaping the future of destination marketing: 1. Will DMO websites be irrelevant in 5 years? 2. Will the ROI of paid media continue to decline?With the audience choosing which side each of us had to argue (regardless of our actual opinions), we explored both sides of the argument—pushing boundaries, challenging assumptions, and asking what the future might hold for destination marketing.Key themes included: • The rise of AI and conversational interfaces replacing traditional search behavior • The shifting value of brand in the prompt era • The battle between OTAs and destination-owned ecosystems • Whether performance metrics are becoming a crutch or a compass • What DMO websites should evolve into—if they’re going to matter at all • Why upper funnel investment might be the smartest play in a fragmented media landscapeWe wrapped with audience Q&A and left the room with more questions than answers—which was exactly the point.⸻Takeaways: • Don’t build a website. Build an immersive, personalized platform. • Brand matters more than ever when AI chooses what to surface. • Paid media isn’t dying—it’s just getting more expensive and harder to measure. • If you’re not in the prompt, you’re not in the trip. • DMOs must stop measuring what’s easy and start measuring what matters. • The future isn’t fixed—and that should excite us.⸻Call to Action:Whether you were in the room or not, we hope this episode gets you thinking differently. Share it with a colleague, spark a conversation, and stay tuned for more Destination Discourse episodes that challenge conventional wisdom.

In this jam-packed episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam welcome Kristen Adamo, President & CEO of Go Providence, for a powerful conversation about the evolving role of destination marketing organizations—and more specifically—the CEO’s role in product development and community stewardship.They explore:• How Go Providence helped save WaterFire and turned it into an economic development lever• Why advocacy starts with being at the table, and sometimes means setting the table• How marketers are uniquely positioned to become CEOs (and why more of them should be)• The difference between promoting a destination and shaping it• The importance of “marketing the marketing”—including leave-behind ROI cards, op-eds, and internal newsletters• Why product development is brand management—and the risk of promoting an experience that doesn’t exist• How DMOs can gain influence with elected officials and avoid being seen as a “nice-to-have”Takeaways:→ If you’re not involved in product, you may be promoting something that’s no longer competitive.→ The most successful DMOs act as connectors, collaborators, and quiet power players—without needing the credit.→ Marketing skills (storytelling, communication, vision) are becoming critical CEO traits in a post-COVID world.→ Local advocacy isn’t optional anymore—it’s a core part of destination leadership.→ Want to be indispensable? Tie every initiative back to room nights and community impact.

In this no-guest, think-out-loud episode, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker tackle one of the most urgent shifts in destination marketing: how AI-powered trip planning and booking could change everything DMOs know about awareness, attribution, and conversion. They unpack Google Ads’ new branded search metric and why it may signal a swing back toward brand-first strategies, then dive into the coming challenge of Large Language Model (LLM) optimization. From schema markup and unique first-person content to integrated paid partnerships and community-driven brand amplification, they explore what it will take to make sure your destination is “in the prompt” when AI tools start recommending and booking trips. This is an unfiltered conversation about the pendulum swing from clicks back to brand, the blending of paid, earned, and owned media, and why attention, not just impressions, will be the new currency.Takeaways: • Why Google’s new branded search metric hints at a return to brand-first marketing. • How AI trip planning tools may bypass your website entirely and what to do about it. • LLM optimization basics: schema, unique content, and authoritative sources. • Why DMOs must think beyond their own brand to elevate the destination’s brand. • How to make paid media dollars work harder through integrated, multi-channel partnerships.Call to Action:If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to subscribe, rate, and share Destination Discourse with a friend in the industry. And if you think we’re wrong or have your own perspective on the “brand in the prompt” era, reach out to join the conversation.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome Dan Janes from Madden Media for a wide-ranging conversation that connects the dots between AI, agency structures, RFPs, and the way destinations approach marketing funnels.The trio kicks things off with Stu’s News on the release of ChatGPT-5, exploring its leap in reasoning, ability to understand intent, and potential to transform how teams work and problem-solve. From there, they dig into Dan’s “feisty” topic: why RFPs are often built for the past instead of the future—and how shifting them from a checklist of services to outcome-driven goals could spark innovation and better results.They also examine why the traditional marketing funnel no longer reflects today’s consumer behavior, what destinations should do to adapt, and why multifunctional, agile agency teams may be better equipped to thrive in this environment.Key Takeaways: • AI is evolving fast—ChatGPT-5’s ability to understand intent and adapt its approach could revolutionize destination marketing workflows. • Outcome over process—RFPs should be written around the results you want, not just the list of services you think you need. • The marketing funnel is broken—today’s traveler has control, choice, and a more active role in the journey, requiring destinations to rethink their approach. • Agency structures must adapt—cross-functional, nimble teams are better equipped to respond to rapid shifts in consumer behavior and technology. • Content + context are key—ownable stories and hyper-relevant messaging will win trust and drive action.If you’re in the DMO or agency world, this episode will push you to challenge assumptions, rethink outdated processes, and explore what it takes to stay relevant in an AI-driven, consumer-controlled era.If you found value in this episode, please like, subscribe, and share it with a friend—whether they’re on the DMO side, the agency side, or just a fellow marketing nerd who loves a good rethink.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam welcome long-time listener and industry friend Caleb Sullivan for a candid conversation about what makes the vendor–DMO relationship thrive—or fail. Drawing from experiences on both sides of the table, they share the right (and wrong) ways to approach business development in the tourism space, why trust and authenticity are more valuable than a hard sell, and how playing the long game often pays off. From pandemic-era Clubhouse connections to lessons learned from awkward first pitches, the trio dives into practical tips for vendors trying to break in, DMOs evaluating partners, and anyone navigating this close-knit “friendship economy.” Expect stories, straight talk, and plenty of good-natured ribbing.What You’ll Learn in This Episode: • Why authenticity and listening beat a one-size-fits-all sales pitch • How to say “no” in a way that keeps the door open for future opportunities • Why vendors should focus on creating value beyond the transaction • The role of trust, likability, and long-term commitment in closing deals • Ways DMOs can give vendors a fair shot without wasting time • How to leverage industry events for meaningful connectionsIf you enjoy the show, make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode—and share it with someone in the tourism industry who could use these insights.

In this episode, Stuart and Adam are joined by Steven Totten of Visit Phoenix for an unfiltered conversation on risk, innovation, and the sameness plaguing the travel and tourism industry. The trio tackles the dangers of navel-gazing, the repetitive creative churn from agencies, and the cultural fear that stifles innovation across DMOs. Stuart shares behind-the-scenes details on the launch of Charlie’s Place, a six-part podcast three years in the making, now picked up by Pushkin Industries. It’s a masterclass in place-based storytelling and branded entertainment done right.Steven explains why Visit Phoenix is approaching its DMO like a startup, embracing in-kind partnerships, retail-inspired merchandise drops, and intentionally choosing a creative agency outside the travel industry. The conversation dives deep into why risk-taking is feared, how comfort and inertia dominate DMO culture, and what it takes to break free—including strong internal communication, stakeholder education, and a shift from celebrating outcomes to celebrating strategic courage.Key Topics: • Launch of Charlie’s Place podcast with Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and Pushkin • The problem with outsourcing vision to agencies • Risk aversion and fear-based culture in tourism • Why most DMO org charts and funding models are all over the map • The difference between celebrating risk vs. normalizing it • Startup mindset and treating innovation as the core mission • How Visit Phoenix is shifting perception through bold creative and ROI-focused partnerships

In Episode 40, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome Jim Harenchar, President of RMG USA, for a deep (and at times spicy) conversation on marketing attribution, ROI, and the complicated relationship between DMOs, agencies, and vendors. What starts as golf banter quickly tees off into a much larger dialogue about how—and whether—the travel industry is measuring what truly matters. From changing consumer behaviors to the dangers of over-attributing performance to the wrong channels, this episode challenges long-held assumptions and makes the case for smarter, more collaborative, and more nuanced measurement.Topics Covered: • Golf as a growth engine: post-COVID trends, off-course vs. on-course participation, and product development opportunities • Why DMOs need to adapt to shifting demographics and behaviors • The problem with vanity metrics, over-attribution, and last-click bias • ROI vs. awareness: why both matter but need different yardsticks • Challenges with funding models, resource constraints, and vendor overload • Agency dynamics, incentive misalignment, and the role of experimentation budgets • A call for industry-wide frameworks and shared measurement modelsNotable Quotes: • “You wouldn’t measure success for hunting the same way you’d measure success for farming.” – Stuart • “Sometimes we’re not promoting golf—we’re promoting a bad golf experience.” – Adam • “If we continue to do the same things, expecting the same results, we’re fooling ourselves.” – Stuart • “Awareness is valuable. Without it, no one can transact with you.” – Adam • “Let’s stop selling silver bullets and start selling collaboration.” – StuartNext Up:Stuart and Adam will be live at ESTO—bring your questions, your hot takes, and your love for the Stu’s News jingle. Yes, there might be swag.

In this episode, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome special guest Rebecca Wormleighton, co-founder of Zendelity, to explore a nuanced challenge in destination marketing: How much influence do DMOs actually have over the guest experience—and what can they do about it?Despite Stuart battling some lingering Covid brain fog and Adam fresh off his 18th wedding anniversary trip to see Morgan Wallen, the crew dives deep into the disconnect between what destinations promise and what travelers experience. Rebecca shares insights from her career in hospitality tech and customer experience, suggesting that many organizations are managing frontline staff with outdated tools—spreadsheets and checklists—while pouring resources into digital guest messaging. She advocates for proactive data collection and operational visibility as the key to preventing negative guest experiences before they happen.Stuart and Adam consider the implications for DMOs: Can destinations track predictive metrics like staffing levels or restaurant wait times? Should DMOs create community-wide incentives or certification programs to raise service standards? And how does expectation-setting influence reviews and perception?The episode also includes: • A discussion of lagging vs. leading indicators in tourism performance • A hilarious AI-generated “apology video” for missing an episode due to Stuart’s Covid • Adam’s shameless plug for the launch of Generation 2 of TourismIQ • The concept of “Destination Excellence” as a possible rallying cry for communitiesWhether you’re a destination marketer, hotel operator, or tourism professional, this episode will challenge your thinking about what really drives guest satisfaction—and what role you play in shaping it.Want some swag at ESTO?Send in a question or comment before the event, and you’ll get a free shirt at the live Destination Discourse session!

What does the future of hiring look like in the world of destination marketing? In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker dive deep into that very question with industry experts Cambria Jones and Nicole Newman of SearchWide Global.From the shifting expectations of today’s workforce to the growing importance of culture, adaptability, and leadership, this conversation covers what DMOs must do to attract, retain, and nurture top-tier talent in a rapidly evolving environment. We explore how employer branding is becoming just as important as destination branding—and why being intentional and human in your hiring process matters more than ever.Whether you’re a job seeker, a hiring manager, or a curious observer of the travel and tourism space, this episode unpacks:💡 Why experience alone no longer defines candidate quality💡 The rising value of adaptability, curiosity, and AI fluency💡 How to write job descriptions that sell the opportunity and the destination💡 Why emerging leaders want growth, not just a title💡 The overlooked Gen X gap and its impact on leadership pipelines💡 Strategies to prevent losing rockstar talent to the vendor side💡 Why speed, transparency, and authenticity are crucial to the hiring journey💡 How SearchWide Global uses AI to identify non-traditional talent—and what that means for youPlus:→ Cambria’s favorite interview question that instantly relaxes people→ Nicole’s advice on getting to the real candidate behind the resume→ Stuart’s legendary Steve Harvey meme test from his agency days→ Why it’s time to move from tacticians to thinkers—and how that protects your team from AI displacementThis isn’t just a hiring episode. It’s a call to rethink how our industry grows its people, tells its story, and defines what leadership should look like for the next generation.Have thoughts or feedback? Drop a comment, share with your team, or email us with ideas for future episodes!

In this special July 4th mini-episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker preview their upcoming session at ESTO 2025 in Phoenix, Arizona. The duo reveals the inspiration and format behind their live show on Monday, August 18 at 2PM - an interactive, debate-style session designed to challenge groupthink and spark honest dialogue across the destination marketing industry. They tease two provocative statements that will be up for discussion: • “DMO websites will be irrelevant in 5 years or less.” • “Our industry relies on vanity metrics and calls it attribution.”Using live audience polling and real-time rebuttals, the session will blend humor, insight, and uncomfortable truths true to the Destination Discourse brand.Plus, Stuart drops some major personal news: he’s now President of Visit Myrtle Beach. The hosts reflect on how far the show has come, express gratitude to their growing Desti-nation of listeners, and encourage everyone to attend ESTO, which they describe as a must-attend event for marketers who want meaningful content—not sales pitches.This is a short but spicy episode, perfect for a holiday listen—and a reminder that sometimes the best way forward is to disagree, respectfully and out loud.Subscribe, review, and tell a friend to join the Desti-nation.

In this candid and cathartic episode of Destination Discourse, we welcome Emily Zertuche, CMO of Visit Corpus Christi, for one of our most honest conversations yet. Emily bravely steps onto the soapbox to explore a tension every destination marketing leader will recognize: Are today’s CMOs spending more time justifying their existence than driving meaningful impact?We talk about the increasing pressure on destination marketing leaders to constantly prove value to boards, stakeholders, and residents, often at the expense of innovation and forward-looking strategy. Emily pulls back the curtain on how her time is split between reporting, advocacy, internal communication, and navigating a maze of expectations from hoteliers, elected officials, and the community.Stuart and Adam dig into the broken model, the overwhelming demand for simplified reporting, and a provocative proposal: maybe CMOs aren’t marketing officers anymore—they’re Chief Value Officers. We also hear about Adam’s idea for a non-conference that gets real about the future of the industry and whether we’re ready for it.Topics Covered: • What is (and isn’t) the role of a CMO in a DMO? • How advocacy work is quietly taking over marketing roles • Why reporting fatigue is real—and often counterproductive • The communication challenge: simplicity vs. transparency • Stakeholder education, ownership, and managing expectations • Using AI to translate complex reports into human language • How to structure internal reporting and future-proof your team • Could the next big industry conversation happen before Esto?Join the Conversation:Drop your hot takes or questions on LinkedIn or Spotify comments.Want to rant about your own industry frustration? Email Stuart to be a guest on the show.Subscribe, Share, and Review!Help us push the industry forward—one uncomfortable conversation at a time.

Welcome back to Destination Discourse! In this episode, we’re joined by digital strategist, author, and podcast host Tim Peter to challenge and expand on ideas from our most popular episode to date — Episode 26.We dive deep into the evolving role of websites, the risks and opportunities presented by AI-generated RFPs, and whether the future of digital customer interaction really requires throwing everything out and starting from scratch.In this episode: • Tim shares feedback and friendly fire on Stuart’s “death of the website” thesis • Adam debuts an AI-generated RFP built from Episode 33’s transcript • A debate unfolds around the role of human creativity vs AI in vendor selection • Tim introduces his latest book Digital Reset: Driving Marketing and Customer Acquisition Beyond Big Tech • We explore how DMOs can future-proof themselves in an era of agents, algorithms, and attention shifts • Stuart and Tim agree: the future is about first principles, better content, emotional resonance, and making your brand the prompt💬 “If your brand isn’t in the prompt, you’re already losing.” – Tim Peter📕 Get Tim’s Book: timpeter.com/digitalreset or find it on Amazon / Bookshop.org🎧 Tim’s podcast (soon to be rebranded): Thinks Out LoudMentioned: • Episode 26: What Happens When Everything Changes? • Adam’s “Destination Marketing Agent” custom GPT • Flip.to and the evolving role of website search and conversion tools📩 Got feedback or want to join the conversation? Email [email protected] or find us on LinkedIn.🧢 Join the DestieNation. Subscribe. Review. Share.🎙 Destination Discourse is a love letter, a therapy session, and a strategic sandbox for destination marketers who aren’t afraid to question everything.#DestinationMarketing #TourismMarketing #DigitalStrategy #TimPeter #DMO #VisitMyrtleBeach #AIinTourism #Websites #RFPs #TheBrandIsThePrompt

Welcome back to Destination Discourse! In this episode, Stuart Butler (Visit Myrtle Beach) and Adam Stoker (Brand not The Brand Revolt) tackle one of the most frustrating and broken systems in destination marketing: RFPs.Are they fair? Are they functional? Or are they just outdated relics doing more harm than good?With Stuart bringing the DMO perspective and Adam representing the vendor side, this conversation dives deep into the dysfunction of the traditional procurement process. We explore everything from recycled RFP templates and misaligned scoring systems to the misuse of AI-generated proposals and the ethics of spec work.But it’s not just a vent session—we share practical solutions: • How to restructure the scoring system to reflect real expertise • Why DMO-vendor “dating” before contracting might be the future • What a truly vision-based RFP could look like • How AI is reshaping the cost, ethics, and strategy behind video content and UGC • And why your lead presenter better be the one actually working on the accountPlus, we dig into Google’s Veo 3 AI video tool and whether fake influencers and AI-generated UGC have a future in destination marketing, or if they cross a line.Subscribe, comment, and join the conversation. Let’s fix this thing together.

This week on Destination Discourse, we welcome Dr. Maree Forbes, CEO of the National Travel Center and one of the leading voices pushing DMOs to see themselves as core players in economic development. Maree brings a fresh, unapologetic thesis: tourism is economic development and most communities have failed to treat it that way.In this episode, we dive into• Why tourism and economic development need to stop living in separate silos• The hidden opportunity in aligning destination marketing with business attraction and resident recruitment• How outdated visitor stereotypes are holding communities back• What high-end hotel brands already know about evolving traveler profiles and how destinations can catch up• The structure that’s helping communities like Topeka thrive through unified strategyPlus, Adam and Stuart finally acknowledge their Spotify commenters, consider launching “Super Destie” merch, and debate the ROI of promotion vs. product.If you’re a DMO pro, chamber exec, or economic developer looking to break old habits and build a better community, this episode is your blueprint.Mentioned in this episodeNational Travel Center: https://nationaltravelcenter.orgSubscribe for weekly episodes and deeper conversations on the future of destinations#DestinationDiscourse #TourismIsEconomicDevelopment #DMO #PlaceBranding #DestinationMarketing

In this episode of Destination Discourse, we dive into a surprising new dataset that’s forcing destination marketers to rethink everything they thought they knew about sports tourism. Stuart and Adam are joined by John David, President and CEO of Sports ETA, to unpack the latest national research. Spoiler alert: youth tournaments might just be delivering a bigger impact than we all realzed.John reveals the findings from Sports ETA’s newly released reports, comparing the economic power of participatory sports (think soccer tournaments, cheer competitions, and travel baseball) versus spectator sports (NFL games, college football, and spring training). What he shares caught all of us off guard.They break down the room night data, traveler spending, and broader community benefits that show participatory sports aren’t just a nice-to-have. They’re an economic engine. Myrtle Beach is held up as a case study in how sports tourism can extend a seasonal destination to a nearly year-round one while building long-term loyalty and repeat visitation from traveling families.The episode also dives into destination content strategy as the team reflects on a recent viral wave of “unhinged” National Park TikToks that used unexpected tactics to grab attention. Can destinations learn something from thirst traps? Maybe. Should they try it? Probably not. But the conversation leads to thoughtful discussion about how DMOs balance brand trust, stakeholder expectations, and the pursuit of relevance in the modern attention economy.In this episode: • Why participatory sports tourism may be the most undervalued vertical in your destination strategy • How room night and spend data flips conventional wisdom on its head • What DMOs can learn from viral content without losing their brand voice • The long-game value of turning youth athletes into lifelong travelers • Why now is the time for rural and mid-size destinations to double down on sportsWhether you’re a veteran DMO leader or just starting to explore sports tourism, this conversation offers data-driven insights, a few laughs, and plenty to think about.Resources and LinksSports ETA Reports and Membership Info: https://www.sportseta.orgContact John David: [email protected] on Apple Podcasts: Destination Discourse on AppleListen on Spotify: Destination Discourse on SpotifyLeave a review on Apple Podcasts or drop a comment on Spotify. You might just hear your shoutout in the next episode. Welcome to the DestiNation.