Drowned in Sound

"Disappointing" is the word of the week in the UK music biz, after the UK government seem to have kicked the can down the road on tackling ticket touts aka "secondary ticketing". Why? The King's Speech happened yesterday. The Keir Starmer's Labour government promised to end ticket touting. And yet... What we got was a draft bill. Buried on page 64 of a supplementary document. Not in the speech itself. Not legislation. Not a law. A draft, which means more consultations, an uncertain timeline, and the door left open for the secondary ticketing platforms to shape whatever comes next. DiS podcast host Sean Adams revisits the full sixteen-year history of this fight, from Sharon Hodgson's Private Member's Bill in 2010, through the Channel 4 Dispatches investigation, the Waterson Review, the founding of the FanFair Alliance, the Digital Economy Act, the CMA's rejected recommendations, Labour's manifesto promise, the Oasis dynamic pricing scandal, and the November 2025 announcement that made everyone think change was finally coming. Then he's rejoined by Kat Cereda, spokesperson for Which?, to dig into what a draft bill actually means, why secondary ticketing websites getting involved in shaping the legislation is exactly what campaigners feared, and what Which? does next. And at the end of the episode, Adam Webb from the FanFair Alliance gives his reaction - he's someone who has been in the trenches of this campaign since 2016. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt) Recorded at The Shure Experience Centre, London. Sign up to the DiS newsletter: http://drownedinsound.org Which? Stop Fleecing Fans campaign: https://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/stop-fleecing-fans FanFair Alliance https://fanfairalliance.org/ Music Fans Voice https://musicfansvoice.uk/ CMS Committee Fan-Led Review of Live and Electronic Music https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/213147/ Further reading Everything you need to know about gig tickets: https://www.drownedinsound.org/gig-tickets/ Previous episodes in this series Kat Cereda (Which?) on the open letter to Keir Starmer: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-uk-government-promised-to-end-ticket-touting-so/id1037405920?i=1000764130066  Adam Webb (FanFair Alliance) on ticket resale and the FanFair campaign: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uk-caps-ticket-resale-at-face-value-what-took-so-long/id1037405920?i=1000737461606

Over 4,000 music fans responded to the Culture, Media and Sport Committee’s Fan-Led Review into Live Music and Electronic Music and in this week's episode DiS founder Sean Adams and co-host Helena Wadia reacted to this important report that could revolutionise live music in the UK. Alongside the in-depth analysis of the state of live music and what music fans want, there's also The Fans' Charter. Much shorter than the 100-page report, the Fans' Charter has 50 recommendations that the government, the industry, and local authorities should implement, from ending ticket touting to improving late night transport and simple things like the live industry sharing timings so fans can plan their night out accordingly. We would urge you to head over here to read the fan-led review and then pop your postcode into TheyWorkForYou and WhoCanIVoteFor to gently encourage your representatives to read the report. The government have less than 2 months to respond and the more MPs, councillors, and mayors that read it, the better. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to hear Helena's playlist and to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality. Start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. This episode was edited by: http://tell.studio  Co-hosted by Helena Wadia, who also co-hosts the Media Storm podcast: https://mediastormpodcast.com/about-us/ Recorded at The Shure Experience Centre, London. Sign up to our newsletter at http://drownedinsound.org    

Before the UK's general election, Labour's 2024 manifesto promised to "put fans back at the heart of events" by ending ticket touting. Then, when in power, the Labour government made confirmed the plan in November 2025. And yet here we are in April 2026, with no legislation, and reports that the Ticketing Bill may not even appear in the King's Speech on 13 May. But what we do have is the fan-led review of live music, urging the government to enact this change. This is the first episode of a new series on power and double standards in music - who has it, how it works, and what fans can actually do both individually and collectively to change things. To kick things off, DiS founder Sean Adams and co-host Helena Wadia are joined by Kat Cereda, spokesperson for Which?, to dig into the consumer rights organisation's open letter calling on Keir Starmer to include a Ticketing Bill in the King's Speech and cap ticket resales at face value. The coalition of signatories is striking: AEG Presents, the Featured Artists Coalition, ATC Management (Nick Cave, Radiohead), Wildlife Entertainment (Arctic Monkeys, Fontaines DC), Grumpy Old Management (Ed Sheeran), the Music Venue Trust, Live Nation, Ticketmaster and more - united in calling on the government to deliver on its manifesto commitment before the window closes. They cover: Why Which?, who are perhaps best known for testing washing machines, is exactly the right organisation to lead this fight How secondary ticketing has grown from "the old man in a trenchcoat outside the venue" to international criminal operations with links to Dubai and Delaware The numbers: resellers stand to make an estimated £24 million from fans this summer alone; a Harry Styles ticket at £200 face value listed at £3,622; an Ariana Grande ticket at £135 listed at £2,835; a BTS ticket at £450 listed at £4,872 that's a whopping 312% markup; and a Raye ticket at All Points East listed on Viagogo at £140,000 Speculative selling: listing tickets touts don't even own yet How fans could save £112 million a year if a price cap were introduced. This is the government's own figure! Why the King's Speech on 13th May is the only real accountability test, and what it means if the bill isn't in it The CMS Committee's independent fan-led review, published just this month, which calls on the government to act "without delay" (more on that next week) What 91% of over 8,000 Music Fans Voice survey respondents agree on Platforms like Twickets and Dice that are already doing it right What you can do right now to keep the pressure on Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. This episode was edited by: http://tell.studio  Which? Stop Fleecing Fans campaign: https://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/stop-fleecing-fans Open letter to the Prime Minister (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/posts/which_open-letter-to-the-prime-minister-activity-7453362314151469056-LwME Which? on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/DXgfoKVFrtA/ Co-hosted by Helena Wadia, who also co-hosts the Media Storm podcast: https://mediastormpodcast.com/about-us/ Further reading CMS Committee Fan-Led Review of Live and Electronic Music (April 2026): https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/213147/calls-for-new-music-fan-association-to-boost-fan-involvement-as-review-publishes-charter-to-safeguard-live-music-sector/ Previous episode Adam Webb (FanFair Alliance) on ticket resale and the FanFair Alliance's campaign: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uk-caps-ticket-resale-at-face-value-what-took-so-long/id1037405920?i=1000737461606 Recorded at The Shure Experience Centre, London. Sign up to our newsletter at http://drownedinsound.org

Drowned in Sound is thrilled to reveal the first series in our new podcast network, with more shows to be announced soon. Hosted by music and social change expert, start-up founder, and campaign organiser Ariana Alexander-Sefre, Sounds Like Change brings together artists, thinkers, and changemakers to explore the profound role music plays in shaping our mental health, identities, and collective futures. The podcast manages to merge a fresh perspective on activism with an len through which we clearly can see music as a cultural force with the power to shift how we feel, relate, and act in a society that has left so many of us feeling hopeless Each episode starts with a song of hope chosen by the guest, then moves from personal stories to wider societal questions, and ultimately toward imagining better futures. Conversations are interwoven with moments of sound and reflection, creating space to feel and process. In this edition of the Drowned in Sound podcast, we introduce you to Ariana and share a taste of the pilot episode, with Drowned in Sound founder and our podcast host, Sean Adams, talking about the role artists like Dead Prez and David Bowie played in his political awakening. Ahead of the first episode, you can now subscribe to Sounds Like Change on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Give the show a follow on Instagram here.  To contact the show or pitch ideas please email [email protected]. This week's playlist + Qobuz free trial. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to hear Sean's political awakenings playlist and discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality. Start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt)

Is AI a human rights issue for musicians? And why isn't the UK government treating it like one? In Part 2 of our conversation with David Martin, CEO of the Featured Artists Coalition, we turn to the question that kept us talking long after we'd wrapped the UK Artist Touring Fund discussion: what happens when AI platforms train on artists' recordings, voices, and likenesses without their consent? David explains why the FAC and the Council of Music Makers see protecting human creativity as fundamentally important, why record contracts signed in 2020 couldn't possibly have granted consent for AI uses artists didn't understand, and why the deals major labels have struck with AI platforms are, in his words, a scandal. Sean connects this to the UK government's investment in AI data centres and tax breaks, while 125,000 music industry workers and the Music Export Growth Scheme's entire annual budget sits at just £1.6 million. They also get into David's answer to the £500 million question, why he thinks music in 2050 will be better than ever, the difference between AI hype and the NFT bubble, and why venues with broken dressing room windows in minus-four weather tell you everything about where the money actually goes. This is the final episode of our season loosely themed around resilience. Send your questions to [email protected] for an upcoming Ask Me Anything episode. Links: Featured Artists Coalition https://www.featuredartistscoalition.com Council of Music Makers https://councilofmusicmakers.org Musicians' Union https://themu.org Music Managers Forum https://themmf.net Music Export Growth Scheme https://www.bpi.co.uk/fund/music-export-growth-scheme/ This week's playlist: artists who speak up about AI + Qobuz free trial. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt) For 25 years our publication and podcast has recommended music. We now also spark conversations and create resources to help music fans discover their collective power.

The UK music industry generated £7.6 billion last year. Taylor Swift became a billionaire off the back of a tour. So why are some artists still losing money every time they play a show? That's the question at the heart of this episode, as Sean sits down with David Martin, CEO of the Featured Artists Coalition (FAC), and musician and former FAC board member Roxanne de Bastion to talk about the newly launched UK Artist Touring Fund (UKAT). Applications are open now. If you are a touring artist, go to thefac.org/ukatfund before midnight on 20 March 2026. Or stay tuned for phase two. The fund distributes money raised through a voluntary £1 levy on arena and stadium tickets - contributed by tours from artists including Harry Styles, Katy Perry, Coldplay, Radiohead and Enter Shikari - to help emerging and mid-tier artists cover genuine shortfalls on their UK headline tours. In Phase One, artists can receive up to £7,000, covering up to 40% of tour expenditure. In this episode we cover: - Why the music industry can be booming at the top while artists on the road are losing money every night - and how British artists' share of the global market has fallen from around 17% to 9% in the last nine years. - The real costs of touring - from Travelodge bills and van hire to session fees, sound engineers and childcare - and how costs have risen sharply since 2022 while support fees have barely moved in decades. - Why record labels stopped providing tour support, and what that has meant for the generation of artists trying to develop their careers on the road. - How UKAT works: who qualifies, what it covers, why support tours are excluded from Phase One (and when that changes), and the separate access fund for artists with disabilities, caring responsibilities or other access needs. - The Live Nation question - how the UK's biggest promoter reports losses in its UK entity while the wider group generates billions globally through Ticketmaster and venue operations - and what it would take to bring major players fully into the levy. - Why funding touring is also a working-class issue: every genre the UK is globally known for - grime, drum and bass, early rock and pop - came from working-class underground movements, and rising costs are pricing those voices out. - The safety argument: as David describes, sending artists out on the road without the resources to do it properly is not just a financial issue - it is a physical safety issue. The death of Viola Beach is a reference point nobody in the industry has forgotten. - What Roxanne would spend £500 million on, and what both guests hope and fear music will be like in 2050. Visit drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at qobuz.com/dis. Links UKAT Fund - apply by 20 March 2026: thefac.org/ukatfund Featured Artists Coalition: thefac.org Roxanne de Bastion: roxannedebastion.com/ Los Campesinos! touring economics breakdown: https://community.drownedinsound.com/t/how-los-campesinos-lost-over-1000-playing-a-sold-out-show-in-dublin/87034 Enter Shikari / Rou Reynolds episode: https://youtu.be/gTkSAokv6UU?si=vBeWvwp7y2l78I3A Join the DiS community: community.drownedinsound.com DiS newsletter signup: drownedinsound.org Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt)

What does it mean to lean in? Not to your career, not to the algorithm but to the act of making music itself? Polly Mackey, the artist, musician, songwriter and producer behind Art School Girlfriend, nearly walked away from releasing music altogether. Instead, she built a studio in East London, completed a Master's thesis on how electronic music can feel human, and made Lean In, her third album, out now on Fiction Records. It might be the most emotionally honest thing she's made. In this conversation, Polly and Sean talk about why she's drawn to the emotional geography between shoegaze and electronic music, the Ableton water-simulation plugins that shaped the record's sound, and what it felt like to study her own creative process while writing the songs. They also get into the bigger questions: Is the album format in crisis? Who actually benefits when music is "democratised"? And what happens to the music industry when the barrier to entry used to be £350 rent in Dalston? Plus: Polly's memories of trying to buy a Slayer album at 10 years old, what her three records taste like (one of them tastes like tears), touring as a three-piece with her wife Marika Hackman, and a genuinely lovely answer about what she hopes music looks like in 2050. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Links Art School Girlfriend: artschoolgirlfriend.co.uk Marika Hackman: marikahackman.com Shy Radicals (film/book): Good Press Foundation FM: Art School Girlfriend's Radio Show Join the DiS community: http://community.drownedinsound.com Subscribe to the DiS newsletter: http://drownedinsound.org Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt) Chapters 00:00:00 - Introduction and Qobuz playlist 00:02:27 - Meet Polly Mackey 00:03:50 - Soft Landing vs Lean In 00:06:30 - Growing up on nu metal in North Wales 00:09:30 - What music would taste like 00:10:54 - Why electronic music sounds like shoegaze 00:13:50 - The Slink Devices water plugin 00:18:00 - Rewilding electronic music 00:19:15 - The MA thesis: sonic objects of intimacy 00:20:10 - Digital silence and The New Analog 00:24:00 - Positive nihilism 00:27:50 - Emma's newsletter ad 00:28:34 - Is the album format in crisis? 00:33:50 - Self-producing Lean In and mixing with Riley MacIntyre 00:34:10 - Sensory overwhelm and Doing Laps 00:36:00 - Translating the record to the live stage 00:38:57 - Qobuz ad 00:40:13 - Shy Radicals, Arlo Parks and the queer bookshop 00:43:40 - £500 million: geography vs class in the music industry 00:51:30 - How to ethically support artists you love 00:52:38 - What music should look like in 2050 00:54:35 - Outro

What happens when a producer and musician working with Solange, Rosie Lowe, Loyle Carner, and Kelela burns out, and a spilled glass of water shows him the way back? Kwes. (Kwesi Sey) has spent fifteen years at the centre of London's most boundary-pushing music, from working with Bobby Womack to the Rye Lane soundtrack. But after years of studio sessions and collaborations, he needed a reset. The catalyst came from his daughter: she knocked over a drink mid-drawing, shrugged it off, and carried on. That moment became the blueprint for his new album Kinds, made in six months of late-night flow states, half-asleep at the keyboard. The result is a 29-minute meditation on colour, memory, and sound. Every track is named after the hues kwes. experiences through synesthesia / chromesthesia (hearing colours). We talk about making music without overthinking, why ambient records aren't minimal, the discipline of producing for other artists versus creating your own work, and what Beach Boys albums taste like. Sean and kwes. also discuss burnout and creative recovery, the London scene that connects Damon Albarn to Tirzah to Speech Debelle, and why London needs creative spaces with affordable accommodation. kwes. reflects on the Barbican and Tate Modern premieres for Kinds, working with visual artist Ryan Vautier, and his hope that one day we'll be able to smell sound. If there's a thread running through it all, it's this: rest is political. And sometimes the most radical thing you can do is stop overthinking and just make. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt)   Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: kwes.: Official website: https://kwes.info Bandcamp: https://kwesmusic.bandcamp.com Warp Records: https://warp.net/artists/kwes/ Films & Soundtracks: Rye Lane (dir. Raine Allen-Miller): https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001k3tb/rye-lane Black Is Beautiful: The Kwame Brathwaite Story: https://www.londonsff.com/black-is-beautiful Some of the artists mentioned: Coby Sey (kwes.'s brother): https://cobysey.bandcamp.com Elan Tamara (kwes.'s wife): https://elantamara.bandcamp.com Loyle Carner: https://loylecarner.com Kelela: https://www.kelela.com Tirzah: https://tirzah.co.uk Recorded at The Shure Experience Centre in London Chapters: 00:00:00 - Introduction 03:00:00 - What is minimalism? 06:15:00 - Working with Solange and Kelela 10:45:00 - The spilled drink catalyst 14:30:00 - Making the record after burnout 19:00:00 - Flow state and late-night writing 22:25:00 - Newsletter ad break 25:00:00 - Barbican and Tate Modern premieres 28:30:00 - Synesthesia and colour-coded tracks 32:00:00 - Qobuz ad break 35:00:00 - Brian Eno and ambient music 40:00:00 - Inspirations: Beach Boys, Pat Metheny 47:00:00 - What does music taste like? 50:30:00 - Creative spaces and accommodation 54:00:00 - Hope for music in 2050

What does it actually mean to be a grassroots music promoter in 2026? David Littlefair joins the Drowned in Sound Podcast to discuss the grassroots pledge he's made with Marrapalooza, the DIY festival in Newcastle's Ouseburn Valley - redirecting ad spend away from Meta, refusing to book artists based on follower counts, and putting money back into the local scene instead of offshore platforms. We also get into the bigger picture: why 85% of Arts Council music funding goes to opera and classical music while brass bands and folk get 0.6% each, how Spotify has spent fifteen years extracting hundreds of millions from British artists, and why the grassroots levy risks being offshored by Instagram ads. David speaks from twenty years of promoting in the North East - from £1-on-the-door pub nights in Sunderland to putting on Sam Fender's second ever gig, to building a festival with a clear political philosophy. He talks about "algorithm begging," the case for community-owned venues modelled on working men's clubs, nd what he'd do with Daniel Ek's £500 million. The Drowned in Sound Podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz - the ethical music streaming platform for music enthusiasts. Start your free trial at drownedinsound.org/playlists. This week's playlist (Jan/Feb 2026 favourites) + Qobuz free trial https://www.drownedinsound.org/playlists + Subscribe to the DiS Newsletter https://www.drownedinsound.org/newsletter Links: 🎪 Marrapalooza 4: Wild and Fierce and Not Bothered — June 5–7 2026, Newcastle https://marrapalooza.co.uk 📄 Youth Music — "Just The Way It Is?" report https://www.youthmusic.org.uk 📄 IPPR — State of the North (arts and culture spending) https://www.ippr.org 📗 Liz Pelly — Mood Machine (Spotify book) https://lizpelly.info 🎵 Portions For Foxes (David's promoting name) — named after the Rilo Kiley song Credits: Hosted, engineered, edited, researched, and produced by Sean Adams. Edited and mixed by Tell Studio. Recorded at The Shure Experience Centre, London. Guest: David Littlefair (Marrapalooza / Portions For Foxes). For 25 years our publication and podcast has recommended music. We now also spark conversations and create resources to help music fans discover their collective power. Mentioned in this episode: Marrapalooza · Portions For Foxes · Los Campesinos! · Soak · Milkweed · Lande Hekt · Jim Ghedi · Gwennifer Raymond · The Chisel · Militarie Gun · Mandrake Handshake · Sam Fender · Field Music · The Futureheads · Rilo Kiley · Caribou · Hundred Reasons · Kelly Lee Owens · PVA · Ella Harris · Gruff Rhys · Benefits · Ex Vöid · Justin Hawkins / The Darkness · Liz Pelly · Music Venue Trust · Arts Council England · PRS for Music · Help Musicians · Featured Artists Coalition · Democratic Business Alliance · Brass Band England · Qobuz · Spotify / Daniel Ek · Youth Music · Music Declares Emergency

This is a conversation about what happens when artists discover their collective power. In May 2025, electronic artist Gazelle Twin withdrew from her Kings Place residency over the venue's decision to host an arms industry conference sponsored by Lockheed Martin. Eleven days later, after 1,200+ artists and fans signed an open letter, Kings Place cancelled the event. Elizabeth Bernholz (Gazelle Twin) talks about that moment and so much more. The musician meets Drowned in Sound founder to discuss creating Pastoral - the Brexit-adjacent album that Drowned in Sound gave 10/10 - moving from liberal Brighton to conservative rural England, the Fever Ray performance that changed everything, and why she performed unmasked for the first time for the album Black Dog after fourteen years... We discuss the practical tactics of organizing boycotts, how PRS Foundation funding enabled some of her most political work, balancing motherhood with touring and activism, film scoring (Nocturne, The Power) as financial stability, and why she believes Ireland's basic income for musicians could transform the industry. From "jaded, frustrated and largely insulted" by the music industry in 2009 to successfully being part of a boycott of the arms industry in 2025 - this is a story about resilience, solidarity, and the power of saying no. LINKS: Gazelle Twin: Official website: https://www.gazelletwin.com Bandcamp: https://gazelletwin.bandcamp.com Instagram: @gazelletwin Organizations Mentioned: PRS Foundation: https://prsfoundation.com Help Musicians: https://www.helpmusicians.org.uk Music Venue Trust: https://www.musicvenuetrust.com Drowned in Sound: Newsletter signup: https://drownedinsound.org This week's playlist (featuring Gazelle Twin, Björk, David Bowie + Nine Inch Nails, Halsey): https://drownedinsound.org/playlists DiS review of Pastoral (10/10): https://drownedinsound.com/releases/20441/reviews/4152045 Try Qobuz - Free 30-day trial of high-quality, artist-friendly streaming: https://drownedinsound.org/playlists (includes Qobuz free trial link) CREDITS: Host: Sean Adams (Drowned in Sound founder) Guest: Gazelle Twin (Elizabeth Bernholz) Recorded at: The Shure Experience Centre, London Mixed & Edited by: TELL Studios Presented in partnership with: Qobuz - the ethical music streaming platform For 25 years, Drowned in Sound has recommended music. We now also spark conversations and create resources to help music fans discover their collective power. Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube Newsletter signup: https://drownedinsound.org Instagram: @drownedinsound Playlist: https://drownedinsound.org/playlists CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Introduction: Do Boycotts Actually Work? 03:48 - Pastoral and Excavating English Identity After Brexit 07:27 - Soundtracking National Horror 11:15 - The Fever Ray Epiphany: Costume as Liberation 14:30 - PRS Foundation Funding and DIY Sustainability 19:00 - Kings Place Boycott: How It Worked 23:45 - Advice for Artists Taking Stands 27:30 - Somerset House Residency and Continuing the Work 32:15 - [QOBUZ AD] 35:20 - Black Dog: Performing Unmasked for the First Time 38:45 - Film Scoring as Financial Stability 42:00 - Music as Therapy and Processing 44:30 - Motherhood, Touring, and Sustainability 47:15 - Ireland's Basic Income for Musicians 49:40 - £500 Million Question: Fixing the Music Industry 53:00 - Outro: The Power of Collective Action MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Gazelle Twin (Elizabeth Bernholz), Fever Ray, MF DOOM, Nigel Farage, Daniel Ek, Scott Walker, Björk, Halsey, David Bowie, Nine Inch Nails, PRS Foundation, Kings Place, Lockheed Martin, Somerset House, Drowned in Sound, The Quietus, Ireland, Brighton, East Midlands. Film Scores: Nocturne (2020) The Power (2021, with Max de Wardener)

GIRLI joins the Drowned in Sound Podcast to discuss her powerful new single 'Slap on the Wrist, which is a collaboration with recent podcast guest Eliza Hatch of Cheer Up Luv, built on real anonymous survivor testimonies filmed in real locations. We also discuss the new Youth Music report "Just The Way It Is?" exposing the scale of unsafe conditions, unfair pay, and discrimination facing young people in the music industry. The stats are stark: 72% of young music industry workers have felt unsafe. 90% have been paid unfairly. 75% have considered giving up entirely. GIRLI speaks with total honesty about being signed to a major label as a teenager, being sent to LA alone at 18 with no safeguarding, and being dropped by phone call at 21 with zero support. She talks about why the music industry still hasn't had its Me Too moment and what she'd do with £500 million to fix it, as well as why the silence of the biggest artists is the loudest statement of all. ⚠️ Content note: This episode contains discussion of sexual harassment, assault, and industry exploitation.  Links: 🎵 GIRLI — "Slap on the Wrist" https://girli.bfan.link/sotw 📄 Youth Music — "Just the Way It Is?" report https://www.youthmusic.org.uk/community/resource-hub/just-way-it-report 📄 Youth Music — Resources to promote safety and rights in music https://www.youthmusic.org.uk/resources/community/resource-hub/resources-promote-safety-and-rights-music-industries 📞 Rape Crisis England & Wales — 24/7 Support Line: 0808 500 2222 https://rapecrisis.org.uk 📞 WeAreMusic have compiled various campaigns and resources to help if you're dealing with harassment or abuse https://wearemusic.info/  💛 Cheer Up Luv https://www.cheerupluv.com ✊ Right to Be (GIRLI donated pre-save proceeds) https://righttobe.org 📰 DiS — "Why We Need to Talk About Speaking Out" (Nina Creswell feature) https://www.drownedinsound.org/why-we-need-to-talk-about-speaking-out/ 🎧 DiS Podcast — Eliza Hatch / Cheer Up Luv episode https://www.drownedinsound.org/misogyny-in-music-the-numbers/  🏛️ CIISA — Creative Industries Independent Standards Authority https://ciisa.org.uk 🎤 Musicians' Union https://themu.org 🎤 Featured Artists Coalition https://www.featuredartistscoalition.com 💚 Help Musicians / Music Minds Matter https://www.helpmusicians.org.uk 🎵 "Believe Women" companion playlist + Qobuz free trial https://www.drownedinsound.org/playlists 📰 Subscribe to the DiS Newsletter https://www.drownedinsound.org/newsletter Credits: Hosted, engineered, edited, researched, and produced by Sean Adams Recorded at The Shure Experience Centre, London Guest: GIRLI (Milly Toomey) accompanied by Heather Swaine (Youth Music) The Drowned in Sound Podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz — the ethical music streaming platform for music enthusiasts. Start your free trial at drownedinsound.org/playlists For 25 years our publication and podcast has recommended music. We now also spark conversations and create resources to help music fans discover their collective power. Mentioned in this episode: Cheer Up Luv / Eliza Hatch · Youth Music · Musicians' Union · Music Guardians · Rape Crisis England & Wales · CIISA (Creative Industries Independent Standards Authority) · Featured Artists Coalition · Help Musicians / Music Minds Matter · Kate Nash · Gazelle Twin · Sinéad O'Connor · MIA · Amy Winehouse · Lily Allen · Laura Mary Carter (Blood Red Shoes) · The Anchoress / 2% in Rising · Nina Creswell / Good Law Project · Patsy Stevenson · Raye · Right to Be

"My brothers are 20 and they're always like 'we are so cooked.' And I'm just like no we're not. There's hope but you just gotta believe, you gotta believe in something." That quote accidentally captures Music Declares Emergency's strategic shift from awareness to action. After five years of "No Music On A Dead Planet" the Hope Over Fear campaign is building action hubs in grassroots venues - real physical spaces where fans, artists, and local communities organize around the climate crisis. In this episode, PVA front-person and MDE Campaigns Manager Ella Harris explains how the campaign works, why music fandom is inherently empathetic practice that translates to organizing power, and how she balances making escapist art (PVA's intimate new album No More Like This) with building climate infrastructure. The conversation tackles touring economics (trains cost £150, flights are just £30), why even festival headliners need day jobs, artists' fear of speaking out, and what £500 million in carbon offset funds could actually fix if redirected toward infrastructure. This is about hope over fear. Real-life organizing over digital despair. Infrastructure over individual guilt. This podcast is brought to you in partnership with Qobuz, the ethical music streaming platform. Visit drownedinsound.org/playlists to discover new music in Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial at qobuz.com/dis.  Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 – Introduction: No music on a dead planet 02:10 – Wearing multiple hats: PVA and Music Declares Emergency 05:00 – Music fandom as an empathetic practice 07:30 – From merch to movement 10:45 – Action hubs and the future of grassroots venues 15:30 – Touring economics, energy costs, and structural limits 19:00 – Artists, activism, and the fear of speaking out 24:30 – Nature, creativity, and why hope needs infrastructure 31:00 – What £500 million could fix in the music ecosystem 35:00 – AI, empathy, and what human music still does best 38:30 – Outro: Depth, not breadth Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: Music Declares Emergency - Learn more about the No Music On A Dead Planet movement, the Hope Over Fear campaign, and how artists, industry, and fans can get involved. Music Venue Trust - Support and protect the UK’s grassroots venues The Green Rider - Ideas for ‘green’ clauses for inclusion as part of your tech or hospitality riders. Hope Over Fear Campaign - The campaign funding real-world action hubs in grassroots venues, focused on collective climate action and community organising. No Music On A Dead Planet - The global artist-led movement connecting music, fandom, and climate justice. About the host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication championing underground and independent artists since 2000. DiS explores how music fans discover their collective power through journalism, podcasts, and community organizing. Related episodes: - Tori Tsui: "How Music Fans Became Climate Activists" (Brian Eno, Billie Eilish, Fossil Fuel Treaty) - Giles Bidder: "Why Festival Headliners Still Need Part-Time Jobs" (101 Part Time Jobs, touring economics) - EarthSonic Live: Music, ecology, and collective action from Manchester Museum About Ella Harris: Ella Harris is the front-person and vocalist of London post-punk/electronic trio PVA, whose second album 'No More Like This' (produced by Kwake Bass) explores desire, devotion, and emotional indentation through trip-hop-influenced soundscapes.  As Campaigns Manager for Music Declares Emergency, she leads the Hope Over Fear campaign, establishing action hubs in grassroots venues across the UK and Ireland. Previously, she founded Group Therapy Collective during lockdown, releasing two compilations featuring Yard Act, Mandy Indiana, and others to raise funds for Help Musicians, Black Minds Matter, and Music Venue Trust. Guest links: - PVA on Bandcamp: https://pvaareok.bandcamp.com - PVA on Instagram: @pva_are_ok - Ella Harris on Instagram: @lime.zoda

Many who otherwise couldn't afford a £40 show, let alone a £300 festival ticket, have accessed gigs because of a new initiative called The Ticket Bank. In this episode, DiS founder Sean Adams meets Jack from Tickets for Good and The Ticket Bank to understand how they're redistributing access to live music. From seeing empty seats at the O2 to a partnership with Barnardo's, followed by offering tickets to NHS workers, teachers, and carers, Jack explains how the infrastructure works, who it serves, and why more artists and venues need to get involved. The conversation covers touring economics, dynamic pricing myths, and the uncomfortable reality that an industry generating billions still prices out the people who need culture most. If you're singing about inequality, why would you only perform for those who can afford it? It’s an inspiring chat about who builds community, how change happens, and who the next generation of artists might not be without projects like this. This podcast is brought to you in partnership with Qobuz, the ethical music streaming platform. Visit drownedinsound.org/playlists to discover new music in Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial at qobuz.com/dis.  This week's companion playlist features calm, ambient music from the community's picks of the best post-classical, drone, and ambient records. Two hours of peaceful listening to help you through the fog.  Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Get Involved For artists, promoters, managers, venues: Contact Jack directly to discuss partnerships Email: [email protected]  For eligible audiences: Register via Tickets for Good or the Ticket Bank. New events added daily around 9am. Tickets for Good: https://ticketsforgood.co.uk Ticket Bank: https://theticketbank.org For everyone else: Share this episode with musicians, venues, and local promoters Tag artists in the comments and ask if they've heard of the Ticket Bank Send to your MP or local council about arts access If you know someone who might qualify, subtly share the links Continue the Conversation Join the Drowned in Sound community to discuss this episode http://community.drownedinsound.com  Subscribe to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly essays, interviews, and insights exploring music, culture, and collective power. http://drownedinsound.org  Links & Resources Tickets for Good: https://ticketsforgood.co.uk  Ticket Bank: https://theticketbank.org  Music Venue Trust: https://www.musicvenuetrust.com Chapters 00:00 - Introduction: Why access to live music matters 01:20 - Empty seats at the O2: The origins of Tickets for Good 05:10 - Cost-of-living tickets and breaking industry stigma 07:00 - From Tickets for Good to the Ticket Bank 12:00 - How eligibility and verification work 16:00 - Touring economics and the dynamic pricing myth 18:15 - How artists, promoters, and managers can help 22:15 - Mental health, social prescribing, and cultural value 24:45 - What £500 million could fix 27:15 - Grassroots venues and inspiring the next generation 31:00 - How to register, donate tickets, or get involved 33:30 - Outro: Your mission

Picking up where Part 1 left off, DiS returns to its conversation with Giles Bidder. Not to talk about how musicians survive, but about how stories travel, how listeners connect and what it really takes to build a music podcast in 2026. In this second instalment, Sean Adams turns the lens on the medium itself (yes, we’ve gone meta). Drawing on nearly 600 episodes of 101 Part Time Jobs, Giles reflects on the craft of interviewing, the ethics of editing, and why the best conversations often need space to breathe. This is less about hustle and more about care: how to hold people well, how to listen properly, and how to build trust over time. The conversation ranges from standout episodes and “slow-burn” storytelling to what it feels like to make work that actually helps people navigate their lives. Giles speaks openly about bad bosses, fear-based workplaces, and the quiet anger that fuels his show (as well as the small, human moments that make it worthwhile). A love for radio runs through this episode: Giles describes producing Shaun Keaveny’s Community Garden Radio as a lesson in warmth, humour, and emotional intelligence on air. From there, the pair broaden out into why podcasts have become such a powerful space for connection, especially for people stuck in boring jobs, long commutes, or lonely routines. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Intro 01:30 - Standout episodes and “slow-burn” editing 03:20 - When to cut vs when to let a story breathe 05:10 - What makes a “good” episode in hindsight 07:00 - Work gaffs, embarrassment, and shared vulnerability 12:00 - Bad bosses, anger, and fear-based workplaces 14:00 - Why people are quietly quitting 18:00 - Why podcasts work on boring journeys 21:00 - Community Garden Radio and the art of warmth 22:30 - What great broadcasting feels like 24:00 - Power, responsibility, and attention 25:30 - Why trust matters more than reach 27:00 - Outro Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. From scout-hut gigs to the economics of touring, DiS sits down with Giles Bidder - host of 101 Part Time Jobs for an unsentimental look at how creative lives are actually sustained today. In this first instalment, Sean Adams talks to one of the UK’s most quietly compelling broadcasters about the hidden labour behind music culture. Over nearly 600 episodes, Bidder has built one of the most humane music podcasts around, asking artists, writers, and comedians not about their success but about the jobs they’ve done to survive. Giles explains how 101 Part Time Jobs emerged as both portfolio and refuge: a way to make sense of a patchwork career, rediscover belonging, and document how people navigate a system that rarely works in their favour. Along the way, the conversation takes in touring economics, merch, sync, class, and why even bands who play the Roundhouse still need “normal jobs. What emerges is a stark but generous thesis: music is socially priceless and economically precarious. Until that gap closes, culture will continue to run on grit, goodwill, and vast amounts of invisible labour. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Chapters 00:00 - Intro  01:26 - Sitting in the “other chair”: Giles as guest, not host 04:05 - Ska/punk origins, micro-prejudices, and how scenes teach you 07:45 - Why 101 Part Time Jobs began: Universal Credit, lockdown, stability 08:55 - Human curation and introducing unknown artists 11:25 - The myth of “making it”: Roundhouse bands with day jobs 13:55 - Why meaningful art can still leave artists broke 16:10 - Music is priceless but paid in grains of pennies 18:20 - Gilla Band, Lambrini Girls, and invisible cultural impact 19:25 - Class, rent, and the radical idea of simply covering your life 20:15 - Why customer-facing jobs matter (merch, coffee shops, respect) 23:55 - Hard work, timing, and opportunity 25:20 - Standout episodes and the “slow-burn” edit 29:10 - Bad bosses, anger, and fear-based workplaces 31:55 - Power, responsibility, and attention in podcasting 44:07 - The importance of having your own project and taking the time 46:55 - Outro Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: 101 Part Time Jobs (Giles Bidder)  Community Garden Radio (Shaun Keaveny)  Music Venue Trust - protecting grassroots venues  Gilla Band  Lambrini Girls  Soho Radio Reading Festival  

From scout-hut gigs to the economics of touring, DiS sits down with Giles Bidder - host of 101 Part Time Jobs for an unsentimental look at how creative lives are actually sustained today. In this first instalment, Sean Adams talks to one of the UK’s most quietly compelling broadcasters about the hidden labour behind music culture. Over nearly 600 episodes, Bidder has built one of the most humane music podcasts around, asking artists, writers, and comedians not about their success but about the jobs they’ve done to survive. Giles explains how 101 Part Time Jobs emerged as both portfolio and refuge: a way to make sense of a patchwork career, rediscover belonging, and document how people navigate a system that rarely works in their favour. Along the way, the conversation takes in touring economics, merch, sync, class, and why even bands who play the Roundhouse still need “normal jobs.” What emerges is a stark but generous thesis: music is socially priceless and economically precarious. Until that gap closes, culture will continue to run on grit, goodwill, and vast amounts of invisible labour. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Intro  01:26 - Sitting in the “other chair”: Giles as guest, not host 04:05 - Ska/punk origins, micro-prejudices, and how scenes teach you 07:45 - Why 101 Part Time Jobs began: Universal Credit, lockdown, stability 08:55 - Human curation and introducing unknown artists 11:25 - The myth of “making it”: Roundhouse bands with day jobs 13:55 - Why meaningful art can still leave artists broke 16:10 - Music is priceless but paid in grains of pennies 18:20 - Gilla Band, Lambrini Girls, and invisible cultural impact 19:25 - Class, rent, and the radical idea of simply covering your life 20:15 - Why customer-facing jobs matter (merch, coffee shops, respect) 23:55 - Hard work, timing, and opportunity 25:20 - Standout episodes and the “slow-burn” edit 29:10 - Bad bosses, anger, and fear-based workplaces 31:55 - Power, responsibility, and attention in podcasting Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources 101 Part Time Jobs (Giles Bidder)  Community Garden Radio (Shaun Keaveny)  Music Venue Trust - protecting grassroots venues  Gilla Band  Lambrini Girls  Soho Radio Reading Festival

Fresh from touring stadiums with Depeche Mode, DiS meets electronic music pioneer to discuss her past, the present, and the future of music. This is part of Drowned in Sound’s 25th anniversary series in which Sean Adams continues the anniversary series by sits down with some of our favourite acts of the past quarter century. Kelly Lee Owens is very much one of those artists, who has featured in DiS year end lists and awards and playlists since releasing her debut EP. The episode starts on the education that comes from working in record shops and becomes a wide-ranging conversation about how music communities form, fracture, and sometimes regenerate. Moving across North Wales to London basements, from pressing white labels by hand to playing for 75,000 people with Depeche Mode, Kelly Lee Owens traces a path through all corners of music: the shops, venues, teachers, collectives, community centres, and accidental mentors that shaped her, her music, and her career. Sean and Kelly chat about their working class roots, the discipline of DJing as storytelling, and the economics of grassroots music. Kelly Lee Owens reflects on why she now deliberately plays shows in places artists rarely go, why she sees music as a form of healing as much as entertainment and why community matters more than scale. If there’s a thread running through it all…it’s this: music isn’t a product or a pipeline. It’s a relationship. And like any relationship, it needs time, space, and care to survive. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Introduction 02:00 - Record shops as education and community 05:05 - Obsession, discovery, and how taste is formed 10:00 - The early 2010s shift: risk, hedonism, and electronic culture 13:05 - DIY culture, SoundCloud, and pressing your own records 15:00 - Human curation vs automation and playlists 22:10 - Playing huge rooms: Depeche Mode, confidence, and scale 26:05 - Returning to small places: community shows and access 29:00 - Grassroots collapse, class, and structural inequality 32:10 - What £500 million could fix in music culture 42:05 - Music as healing, frequency, and emotional space 48:25 - The future: rebuilding value, community, and care 50:15 - Outro Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: Music Venue Trust — protecting grassroots venues https://www.musicvenuetrust.com David Byrne — How Music Works https://davidbyrne.com/books/how-music-works Fabric London — venue history and cultural importance https://www.fabriclondon.com Piccadilly Records (Manchester) https://www.piccadillyrecords.com Pure Groove Records (London) https://puregroove.co.uk Kelly Lee Owens https://kellyleeowens.com Stop Making Sense — Talking Heads https://www.talkingheadsofficial.com Cocteau Twins https://cocteautwins.com The Knife — Silent Shout https://theknife.net Warehouse Project (Manchester) https://www.thewarehouseproject.com Neuadd Ogwen / Bethesda community venue https://neuaddogwen.com

So what will 2026 sound like? In this episode, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams and journalist Emma Wilkes look into their crystal balls (and the release schedules).  Tips on which artists should break through and the corporate barriers they’ll need to navigate. Beyond tipping season, we explore the strange absence of shared musical moments, the growing anxiety around AI-generated music, the slow unravelling of trust in big tech platforms, and whether changes to ticketing, touring, and grassroots funding might start to rebalance power (and money) back towards scenes. There are also predictions - some cautious, some hopeful, some deliberately ridiculous. This episode tries to map the forces underneath the surface…the things that will shape what we hear, how we find it, and what it means to care about music in the first place. The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Introduction: What will music be like in 2026? 02:30 - New bands, tipping season, and who breaks through next 06:50 - Scenes, genres, and the collapse of old categories 12:00 - Cities as culture: Leeds, Liverpool, Brighton, Beirut 16:40 - Resilience, mental health, and sustaining music ecosystems 20:40 - Grassroots levies, touring economics, and venue survival 26:00 - Ticketing, regulation, and the slow response to abuse 28:20 - AI, platforms, and the erosion of trust 30:30 - Predictions: returns, collaborations, and surprise records 35:20 - Tech futures, headphones, and augmented concerts 38:50 - Hope, uncertainty, and what comes next Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: FanFair Alliance - ticketing transparency and anti-touting campaigning Music Venue Trust - grassroots venue support and levy campaigning UK Government - ticket resale reform & consultation Action Fraud -  advice on ticket scams and resale fraud  Subvert - artist / label-owned music platform Bandcamp - direct-to-fan model and editorial writing The Jump - Shirley Manson's podcast Vespertine - Björk's podcast

Season 5, Episode 1: What if swifts sound like Slipknot? What are flying rivers? And how do you give water a voice? This New Year special takes you backstage at EarthSonic Live, where over 3,000 people gathered at Manchester Museum to explore how music and nature sounds can help us reconnect with the planet and drive real climate action. Recorded across a single extraordinary day in November 2025, this episode captures conversations with conservationists protecting endangered species, climate activists working with Brian Eno and Billie Eilish, and Brazilian artists who travelled from Belém where the performed at COP30. From sampling frogs in the museum's Vivarium with Japanese composer Hinako Omori to learning about the UK's temperate rainforests (yes, really!), EarthSonic Live had it all. In the first episode of 2026, you'll hear from RSPB conservationists Annabel Rushton and Roshni Parmar-Hill about why swifts are disappearing and what red squirrels tell us about biodiversity loss. Climate activist Tori Tsui shares how music became central to her campaigning. Hannah Overton from Warp Records explains more about the event. And we meet four members of FLOW, female artists from three continents to reflect on their journey to Belém for COP30, where they turned droughts, floods, and flying rivers into hip-hop, spoken word, and song. The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit drownedinsound.org/playlists to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at qobuz.com/dis. Continue the Conversation: Join the discussion on the Drowned in Sound forums and share your thoughts on music, nature, and climate action. Subscribe: Get the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights into music, culture, and building a fairer industry. Links & Resources: Tori Tsui - Climate activist and author of "It's Not Just You: How to Navigate Eco-Anxiety and the Climate Crisis" EarthSonic Live - Event details and future dates Takkuuk - Inside Bicep's Arctic Masterpiece (DiS article) Full Tori Tsui Interview - Climate justice and music with Brian Eno & Billie Eilish RSPB - Conservation and volunteering opportunities Wildhoarse Water - RSPB nature reserve in the Lake District with UK temperate rainforest In Place of War - Arts organization for social change Manchester Museum Vivarium - Home to the frogs sampled during workshops Sohini Alam - British-Bangladeshi composer and vocalist Keila - Brazilian singer from Gang do Eletro, FLOW artist Bebé Salvego - Brazilian jazz vocalist, FLOW artist Jaloo - Brazilian gender-fluid artist and producer, FLOW artist Hinako Omori - Japanese artist and composer Wellcome Trust - Event partner Arts Council England - Event partner Ableton - Event partner and workshop provider About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication championing underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful. This episode was completely self-produced by Sean Adams, recorded on location at Manchester Museum. Thanks to Shure for providing the mics to record this special episode.

What does it actually mean to be a musician in an economy built for creators and why does it feel like the workload keeps growing while the rewards shrink? In this episode of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, Sean Adams is joined by Hanna Kahlert from MIDiA Research, whose work sits at the intersection of music, platforms, and the wider creator economy. Drawing on recent research into artists’ working lives, they explore why musicians increasingly face the same pressures as YouTubers and streamers without a lot of the same tools, protections, or paths to sustainability. They talk about the time sink of constant content creation, the distortion of success metrics, and how discovery has become both easier and more exhausting than ever. This includes: “lean back” listening,  “lean through” fandom whilst the conversation reframes what engagement really looks like and why likes, views, and viral moments so often fail to translate into income or longevity. As streaming platforms push endless discovery and passive consumption, the duo ask hard questions about value, ownership, and what gets lost when music is treated as content and not an integral part of culture. The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Why musicians are being reframed as “creators” 05:20 - The problem with monetisation, takedowns, and copyright 12:10 - Lean back, lean in, and what “lean through” really means 20:00 - Discovery, algorithms, and the illusion of reach 28:00 - Are superfans real - and what actually makes a fan? 36:10 - Scenes, culture, and what’s been lost in platformisation 44:30 - AI, ownership, and the coming copyright reckoning 52:30 - The “dark forest” internet and the return of small spaces 59:30 - What the next 25 years of music might look like Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: Cross Platform Success Using Social Platforms to Build Audience and Fandom MIDiA Research Hanna Kahlert – MIDiA Research Spotify Loud & Clear Report Music Publishers Begin Spotify Podcast Takedowns (Variety)

What were the big music news stories of the year? In part 1 we charted the pressures building across music’s foundations and now Part 2 turns to the systems that decide who gets paid, who gets heard, and who gets left behind. Drowned in Sound’s founder Sean Adams and music journalist Emma Wilkes count down stories #3, #2 and #1 -  from the strange feeling that there wasn’t really a song of the summer at all, to solidarity protest movements filled with eloquent musicians, and the growing wave of artists turning their backs on Spotify. They examine how streaming payouts continue to shrink for artists, even as platforms post record profits public conversations around alternatives, and ethics (war tech?! ICE ads?! Joe Rogan?!) turned into artist boycotts.  The biggest music stories share one consistent theme: who holds the power, and who gets to challenge it? The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Introduction 02:00 - Story #3: Was there a ‘song of the summer? 01:10 - Rage, memes, and culture reflecting the moment 03:42 - Sofia Isella and the power of feminine rage 06:20 - Nova Twins, activism, and grassroots credibility 08:32 - Mannequin Pussy and what rock should stand for 09:29 - Story #2 begins: protest movements in music 11:02 - Boycotts, divestment, and corporate accountability 13:02 - Solidarity, Ireland, Palestine, and shared histories 16:12 - Culture as a battleground 29:26 - Story #1 begins: the Spotify exodus 32:13 - Streaming power, ethics, and alternatives 36:16 - Hope, resistance, and building something better 42:22 - Outro Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: Switched On Pop - Why the Song of the Summer Is Disappearing No Music for Genocide – Artist Boycott Campaign NME – Paramore & Hayley Williams Join No Music for Genocide Resident Advisor Podcast – Sama’ Abdulhadi Together for Palestine – Yara Eid Concert Spotify Loud & Clear Report Music Publishers Begin Spotify Podcast Takedowns (Variety) Spotify Payola Lawsuit Explained (Music Business Worldwide) Cut Off the Spigot – Streaming Economics Campaign Mozilla Foundation – The Post-Naive Internet Era

What were the biggest stories in music this year?  No, not the releases or the hype cycles but the forces reshaping how music is made, played, toured, and valued. In Part 1 of Drowned in Sound’s Stories of the Year, Sean Adams and Emma Wilkes count down stories #5 and #4, starting with a contradiction that defined 2025: record-breaking mega-gigs and billion-pound industry headlines on one side, and a grassroots ecosystem under existential pressure on the other. They talk through the “mega gig” (stadium shows, park festivals, corporate-backed cultural events) and also ask what their success is hiding. Taylor Swift-level touring power continues to drive economic growth but artists at every other level are cancelling tours. What is the purpose of growth if the foundations are cracking? From there, the conversation turns to AI. A now present-day force that is reshaping music. This is the year artificial intelligence stopped being theoretical and started demanding political, legal, and cultural responses. Stay tuned for Part 2 of the countdown. The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Introduction 01:15 - Story #5 begins: mega gigs vs grassroots 02:10 - What defines a “mega gig” now? 04:11 - £8bn industry headlines vs lived reality 06:26 - Taylor Swift, scale, and monopoly economics 07:18 - Employment figures and the invisible labour of music 08:43 - Grassroots venues as cultural homes 09:32 - Inequality, wealth concentration, and responsibility 13:22 - How the industry decides who gets tipped 16:01 - Why discovery systems feel broken 19:30 - Story #4 begins: artificial intelligence enters music 23:19 - Consent, transparency, and “human-made” music 28:30 - Power, control, and social isolation 35:30 - Outro Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: UK Music – This Is Music Report (Industry Growth Context) Competition & Markets Authority – Secondary Ticketing Investigations BBC – Ticket Scams and Secondary Resale Issues Fan-Led Review of Music – UK Parliament Music Fans Voice – Fan Campaigning for Fair Ticketing Independent Venue Community Music Venue Trust Youth Music – Rescue the Roots Campaign AI-Generated Music Appearing on Artist Profiles  Oneohtrix Point Never is searching for soul in the slop (Dazed) UK Music on AI Training Data and Copyright

It’s that time again: lists, arguments, consensus (or lack of it). So.. how do we choose an ultimate “Album of the Year’? In this episode, Emma Wilkes joins Sean Adams to talk through their favourite albums of 2025. No this is not the definitive list, not the ‘right’ list, just the stuff that has stuck, been obsessed over, demanded repeat listens, or just briefly rearranged their internal wiring. They also talk openly about the collapse of monoculture, the impossibility of ‘keeping up’, and why criticism still matters amongst the fractured scenes, algorithmic bubbles, and overwhelming volume of new music to choose from. This is not so much a ranked list and more as two very online music obsessives trying to map a year that refuses to be summarised. The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 – Hayley Williams and the case for a bold AOTY 01:00 – Emma’s pick: The Callous Daoboys and joyful heaviness 04:00 – Grassroots venues, noise scenes, and Atlanta’s rise 06:30 – Introducing Emma Wilkes: rock, metal & Kerrang! 09:00 – Why heavy music needs catharsis, humour, and chaos 12:00 – Hardcore’s new era and the crossover wave 14:00 – The collapse of monoculture in 2025 16:00 – Discovery fatigue and the algorithm problem 18:30 – Model/Actriz, grief albums, and theatrical noise 22:00 – Heartworms and the art of gothic storytelling 24:00 – Ska, cowbells, and unexpected nostalgia 27:00 – Honourable mentions: Lambrini Girls, Wolf Alice, Nova Twins 30:00 – Hayley Williams’ political arc and southern identity 32:00 – Easter eggs, vocal shifts, and how fans decode albums 34:00 – Allyship, perspective, and storytelling in pop 35:00 – Production notes: Efterklang, Daniel James & sonic detail 37:00 – Why music criticism still matters 39:00 – Emma’s Top 10: heavy, emotional, ambitious 42:00 – Sean’s curveballs: Postcards, DARKSIDE & more 45:00 – So… who really made Album of the Year? Albums mentioned: Hayley Williams - Ego Death at a Bachelorette Party The Callous Daoboys - I Don't Want to See You in Heaven Backxwash - Only Dust Remains Kathryn Joseph - We Were Made Prey FKA twigs - Eusexua Afterglow Ethel Cain - Perverts Model/Actriz - Pirouette Alan Sparhawk - With Trampled by Turtles Heartworms - Glutton for Punishment Die Spitz ‧ Something to Consume Little Simz - Lotus Lily Allen - West End Girl The Mynabirds - It's Okay To Go Back If You Keep Moving Forward Wolf Alice - The Clearing Turnstile - Never Enough Addison Rae - Addison Sharon Van Etten - Sharon Van Etten & The Attachment Theory Marissa Nadler - New Radiations Nova Twins - Parasites & Butterflies Anna von Hausswolff - Iconoclasts Sudan Archives - The BPM Horsegirl - Phonetics On and On JADE - THAT'S SHOWBIZ BABY! Dave - The Boy Who Played the Harp Garbage - Let All That We Imagine Be the Light Scowl - Are We All Angels Postcards - Ripe DARKSIDE - Nothing Jools - Violent Delights Witch Fever - Fevereaten Deafheaven - Lonely People with Power Lambrini Girls - Who Let The Dogs Out Sprints - All That Is Over Pinkshift - Earthkeeper Creeper - Sanguivore II: Mistress of Death Melody’s Echo Chamber - Unclouded  HEALTH - CONFLICT DLC Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance.

82% of music fans want to stop climate breakdown but only 3% know what to do. Climate activist Tori Tsui reveals how Billie Eilish, Brian Eno, and Massive Attack are building the infrastructure to turn that care into action. Recorded backstage at EarthSonic Live in Manchester, this conversation bridges the gap between wanting to help the planet and knowing how. Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams meets Tori Tsui, the climate justice activist, author of "It's Not Just You," and senior advisor to the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty. Tori works with Brian Eno's EarthPercent and Billie Eilish's Overheated climate conferences. IN THIS EPISODE: • How Tori got Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham to sign the Fossil Fuel Treaty before introducing Massive Attack • What streaming platforms are hiding about their energy use • Why 94% of some carbon credits are phantom scams with no climate benefit • How green touring saves artists money • The Chris Martin/Coldplay connection • What music fans can actually do (beyond guilt) Organizations mentioned include: • Fossil Fuel Treaty: https://fossilfueltreaty.org  • EarthPercent (Brian Eno): https://earthpercent.org  • Billie's Overheated: https://www.imoverheated.com  • Green touring: https://www.soliphilia.co.uk/ Read Tori's book "It's Not Just You" https://www.toritsui.com/  Follow Tori: Instagram @tori_tsui_ ABOUT DROWNED IN SOUND: Independent music journalism exploring how music catalyzes systemic change. Newsletter: https://drownedinsound.org  Recorded at EarthSonic Live, Manchester Museum, November 2024. #ClimateChange #MusicIndustry #BillieEilish #BrianEno #MassiveAttack #ClimateActivism #Podcast

The UK Government have announced a landmark decision: ticket resale above face value is to be made illegal, backed by strict limits on service fees and new enforcement powers. After decades of music fans being fleeced by industrial-scale touting, could this be the turning point? In this special episode, the FanFair Alliance’s Adam Webb (a central figure in the long-running campaign against exploitative secondary ticketing) joins Sean Adams to unpack the announcement, its implications, and what it means for fans, artists, venues, and the future of the live industry. Webb lays out how the crisis unfolded, with resale platforms enabling huge mark-ups that now cost fans an estimated £112 million a year. They trace the steady pressure that’s been building for years: Trading Standards investigations, CMA interventions, tabloid exposés, Ed Sheeran’s court cases, and sustained evidence-gathering by managers, artists, unions, and campaigners. Together, Adam and Sean explore the possibilities opened up by this week’s announcement and ask the simple question: what happens when fairness is restored? And will these reforms be delivered quickly enough to stop another cycle of exploitation? Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – The scale of the problem: how industrialised touting took hold 05:10 – Viagogo, StubHub, and the ecosystem that lets abuse thrive 10:45 – The £112 million question: super-touts, bots, and business models 16:20 – Ed Sheeran, prosecutions, and the moment artists pushed back 22:40 – Why enforcement has failed — and what must change 29:15 – Politics, lobbying, and the slow road to reform 36:00 – Fans, consent, and the ethics of the live economy 41:30 – What a fair ticketing future could look like Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources Fan-Led Review of Music: Parliamentary Inquiry into Ticketing Reform https://committees.parliament.uk/work/9161/fanled-review-of-music/ Music Fans Voice: Campaigning for Fair Ticketing and Fan Rights https://musicfansvoice.uk/ Which? – Stop Fleecing Fans: Ending Rip-Off Ticket Resale https://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/stop-fleecing-fans Robert Smith: 7,000 Cure Tickets Cancelled on Secondary Sites https://accessaa.co.uk/robert-smith-says-7000-the-cure-tickets-have-been-cancelled-on-secondary-resale-websites/ FanFair Alliance: Guide to Buying Tickets Safely https://fanfairalliance.org/resources/ CMA Investigation: Enforcement Action on Secondary Ticketing https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/secondary-ticketing STAR: The UK’s Ticketing Standards and Consumer Protection Body https://www.star.org.uk/ Ed Sheeran’s Legal Battle Against Ticket Touts (BBC) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47620979 Your Consumer Protection Rights (Gov.uk) https://www.gov.uk/consumer-protection-rights Adam Webb – Updates and Advocacy on Ticketing Reform https://twitter.com/webboideas

How can the UK music industry be both in crisis and booming? In 2024, the sector was worth a record £8 billion to the UK economy but at the same time, grassroots venues are closing, artists are struggling to tour, and AI threatens to steal musicians’ work for the profit of broligarchs. In this week’s episode, Sean Adams speaks with Tom Kiehl, CEO of UK Music, about the findings in the organisation’s brand new annual report This Is Music 2025. Together they unpack the contradictions of a sector growing on paper but straining at its foundations from slowing post-pandemic growth and the fight for fair AI regulation, to the obstacles making it harder for new artists breaking through. With reflections on Brexit’s lasting damage, AI’s issues with consent, and a new £1 grassroots levy, it’s a revealing look at an industry at a crossroads. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 – The £8 Billion Paradox: Growth vs Crisis 03:30 – Who UK Music Represents and What It Does 07:30 – File-Sharing to AI: The Evolution of Rights Battles 13:30 – “Pro-Innovation” or Anti-Artist? AI and Copyright in 2025 18:30 – Levies, Inequality, and the Grassroots Squeeze 24:30 – Breaking Artists in a Post-Pandemic Landscape 29:30 – Rehearsal Spaces, Mentorship, and Missing Infrastructure 35:30 – Why Britain Needs a Music Export Office 41:30 – Ticketing Chaos, Regulation, and the Fan Experience 47:30 – What Fans Can Do: From Campaigns to Collective Power 52:30 – The Future of British Music: Soft Power and Survival Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: Read UK Music’s This Is Music 2025 Report UK Music Official Website UK Music on Instagram Drowned in Sound Newsletter

How “sleazy” was Indie Sleaze, really - and was it ever a scene that Paul Smith of Maxïmo Park recognised himself in? At a time when the air was thick with lager and leather jackets, Smith was more inspired by art-school notebooks, Robert Wyatt, and the idea that pop could be poetry. In this conversation, the Maxïmo Park frontman joins Sean Adams who also lived through the era being retrospectively called “indie sleaze”, was at those early Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Franz Ferdinand, Bloc Party and Libertines shows, released records by Metric and Kaiser Chiefs, etc.  In this conversation they revisit the making of Maxïmo Park’s Mercury-nominated debut and reflect on what it meant to be outsiders during Britain’s mid-2000s indie boom. Recorded for the album’s twentieth anniversary, the pair unpack the contradictions of that moment - art rock vs lad rock and sincerity vs posturing whilst tracing how those tensions still shape British guitar music today. From signing to Warp Records and headlining the NME Awards Tour alongside Arctic Monkeys, Mystery Jets and We Are Scientists, to the band’s art-school roots, working-class perspectives, and enduring faith in pop’s emotional truth, this is a deeply human glance back at the legacy of one of the era’s most literate frontmen. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 – Indie Sleaze, revisionism, and the myth of 2005 01:46 – Forming an art-school band and the noise scene that shaped them 08:30 – From experimental roots to pop hooks: defining the Maxïmo Park DNA 14:30 – Signing to Warp Records and finding a home for outsiders 20:30 – The whirlwind year: Top of the Pops, the NME Tour, and the cost of success 24:30 – Art rock, class, and being mislabeled “sleazy” 31:30 – The politics of pop and the poetry of the everyday 42:30 – Romance, resistance, and the belief that pop can still mean something Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources Maxïmo Park Official Website ‘The Rise and Fall of Indie Sleaze’ - BBC Podcast 20th Anniversary Edition of A Certain Trigger Paul Smith & Rachel Unthank Collaborative Album

Live music is nothing without the fans. Generating £5.2 billion to the UK economy PA, employing over 210,000 people and building the careers of those who contribute over £4bn to the export of live music, there is no doubting the UKs reputation as the international home of live music and the birthplace of the festival industry. Every pound of this economic success comes from a fans pocket and the House of Commons Culture Media and Sport committee have decided it’s finally time to put them in the centre of decision making, with a fan led review of Live and Electronic Music. This review aims to champion the areas that work, safeguard the areas under threat and ensure that the health and growth of live music is fair and accessible to all. Recorded live at Sŵn Festival in Cardiff, Sean Adams introduces a special panel arranged as part of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee’s Fan-Led Review into Live Music and Electronic Music - a landmark inquiry bringing music lovers together to discuss ideas to protect the live music industry and ensure it works in the best interests of music fans across the country.  The discussion draws fascinating parallels between football and music, two cultures built on passion, loyalty, and community, yet often structured around systems that treat fans as consumers, not stakeholders. Panellists Chair – Sam Duckworth  With a recording artist career as Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly spanning 20 years, Sam has most recently been working with Music Venue Trust to advocate for greater fan input into Music industry decision making, co-founding the Music Fans Voice survey. Lord Kevin Brennan Lord Brennan is Chair of the Fan-Led Review of Live Music, on behalf of the Culture Media and Sport Committee. The Review is bringing music lovers together to discuss ideas to protect the live and electronic music industry and ensure it works in the best interests of music fans across the country. The aim is to produce a report to the Government setting out the perspectives of fans based on survey responses, stakeholder meetings and public engagement events. Lord Brennan has held positions as a Government Minister, former Chair of the APPG on Music and was a member of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, which produced reports on ‘The future of music festivals’ and ‘The economics of music streaming’. He is also a performing musician. Dr Lucy Bennett – Lecturer at Cardiff University’s School of Journalism, Media and Culture Lucy is a leading academic voice on music fandom and popular music culture. She co-founded the Fan Studies Network, has consulted for YouTube, and delivered analysis for the Recording Academy/Grammys. Widely published, she also provides expert commentary for the BBC, The Guardian and The Washington Post. Her teaching spans Media Fandom and Popular Music, Media & Culture, and she recently worked on the Music Fans’ Voice Survey, amplifying live music audiences. Cathy Long – CEO of Aposto Having worked with 64 football clubs at the Premier League (spearheading safety and fan experience) , The FSA and co-author of the Accessible Stadia Guide, Cathy is one of English Football’s leading fan experts and a passionate and experienced advocate for Equality and Safety within the game. Julian Jenkins  Julian Jenkins is a seasoned sports executive and entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience in the  global sports industry. He has held senior leadership roles across football, licensing, and commercial development, helping to grow fan engagement, brand value, and international partnerships. Julian now lead multiple ventures spanning professional women’s football, AI-driven sports analytics, and creative IP development, blending his passion for sport, community, and innovation. His work focuses on building sustainable models that connect clubs, fans, and brands in more meaningful ways. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance. Further Reading Fill in the fan-led review of Live & Electronic Music survey  Music Fan’s Voice Survey The Fan Led Review of Live Music – UK Parliament CMS Committee  Football Supporters’ Association 

With 41% of grassroots community music spaces at risk of closure due to financial pressures, what does the future hold for young musicians trying to break through? And what role can the wider industry and everyday fans play in keeping these vital pathways alive? In this special DiSpatch episode of the Drowned in Sound podcast, Emma Wilkes heads to Troxy in London for Youth Music's annual awards ceremony, which celebrates some of the stars of tomorrow and the grassroots projects behind them. Youth Music is the UK’s largest music charity, providing funding for hundreds of grassroots music organisations and supporting over 100,000 children and young people every year up and down the UK. Their work has never felt so urgent. Through conversations with industry leaders, grassroots organisers, and emerging artists, this episode explores what equal access to music looks like, the vital importance of grassroots opportunities for young people, and what music fans can actually do to help. From major label perspectives to Cambridge's rising rap talent, we hear how the music industry can and must support the next generation. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction: Who are Youth Music? 01:50 – Charlotte Edgeworth (Sony Music) on the industry’s role in supporting grassroots music. 05:50 – Dan Tsu (Lyrix Organix) on money vs creativity and mapping pathways for young people. 09:40 – Matt Griffiths (CEO, Youth Music) on meeting young people where they're at. 14:00 – Sister Bliss (Faithless) on giving every young person the opportunity to create.  17:50 - Dan Tsu (Lyrix Organix) on creating spaces for young people 23:50 – Sister Bliss (Faithless) on what we can do next 28:50 – What comes next? A grassroots funding crisis, and what music fans can do to help. 30:50 – JayaHadADream on Youth Music's impact on her life and career. 32:20 – Resources, Rescue the Roots, and Youth Music’s call to action. Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: DiS Podcast: Matt Griffiths in conversation with Sean Adams Youth Music Official Website Youth Music’s Rescue the Roots Campaign Youth Music’s Industry Connect Programme Lyrix Organix Official Website JayaHadADream Official Website Cover photo by Jack Oliver.

In this episode of the Drowned in Sound podcast, Sean Adams and Emma Wilkes are joined by Sophie K and Yasmin from the podcast, ’On Wednesdays We Wear Black’. Together they unpack what accountability really looks like inside the music industry - and why it’s still lagging decades behind. From the Marilyn Manson, Chris Brown and Brand New controversies to the long-standing normalisation of abuse in classic rock (as laid bare in The Guardian’s review of Look Away), the group explores how power, money, and silence continue to shape who gets forgiven…and who doesn’t. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction 03:10 – The State of Rock: Power, Money, and Silence 08:45 – Cancel Culture vs Accountability 13:00 – When Does “Sorry” Stop Counting? 18:25 – Justice Without a System 23:40 – The Media’s Role in Reckoning 30:10 – What the Look Away Documentary Reveals 37:20 – Generational Shifts and Moral Gray Areas 45:00 – Lazy Activism and Online Moralism 52:15 – Festivals, Representation, and Tokenism 58:00 – Closing Thoughts: Can the Industry Evolve? Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance. Further Reading, Links & Mentions: On Wednesdays We Wear Black Podcast Look Away -  horrifying stories of abuse at the hands of male rock stars (The Guardian) Bodies: Life and Death in Music — Ian Winwood The Persuaders - Anand Giridharadas

In part two of our Drowned in Sound podcast series on the Spotify exodus, Sean Adams sits down with Alexa Speed (founder of Cut Off The Spigot), and artist Kadhja Bonet alongside returning guest Laura Burhenn (The Mynabirds) to unpack the growing backlash against Spotify and other streaming giants. From Spotify’s billion-dollar AI investments and Daniel Ek’s controversial war drone ventures to the ethics of billionaire ownership and music’s place in post-capitalist culture, Sean and this week’s guests dive into the details and ask what happens when artists say enough is enough. We hear why Kadhja pulled her music from Spotify, how Alexa interrogates corporate influence behind streaming platforms, and what the alternatives are (including Bandcamp, Qobuz and more). We also imagine a future where creativity and community outweigh convenience, and where art is valued for its inherent social good, not algorithmic profitability. Far-fetched? Let’s find out. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction: The Spotify Exodus 03:15 – Why Artists Are Leaving Streaming Platforms 08:45 – Daniel Ek’s Investments in AI and Defence Tech 13:20 – The Ethics of Streaming: Profit vs Planet 18:05 – Billionaires, Protest, and Power 22:40 – Kadhja Bonet: Why I Pulled My Music from Spotify 27:55 – Laura Burhenn on Journalism, Accountability & Platforms 34:10 – Alternatives: Bandcamp, Qobuz, and Ethical Listening 40:00 – The Role of Joy and Dance in Resistance 46:45 – Building a Post-Capitalist Music Culture 52:30 – What Comes After Spotify? 57:00 – Closing Reflections & Future Visions Try Qobuz (Ethical Streaming Alternative): Artists get paid 10x more than Spotify. Human-curated playlists. High-quality audio. Start your free trial via DiS (supporting independent music journalism). Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance. Links & Mentions Cut Off The Spigot Kadhja Bonet on Bandcamp Kadhja Bonet on Instagram The Mynabirds Laura Burhenn on Instagram Flashes (Bluesky app) Ghost: The Social Web The Verge on Ghost 6 and the Social Web

DiS founder Sean Adams sits down with DiS’s newest staff writer, Emma Wilkes, to mark 25 years of Drowned in Sound and what the future holds for the website, newsletter, and podcast.  They reflect on Emma’s recent interview with Jeremy Corbyn as he champions grassroots venues, and turn the tables by asking each other questions usually reserved for podcast guests. Sean finally reveals how he would spend the $450m Spotify gave Joe Rogan, as this conversation explores the intersection of music, politics, journalism, and the survival of independent culture. Sean and Emma discuss how music can be a gateway into politics (and vice versa), the pressures facing artists, publicists, and journalists in today’s music industry, and what a fairer ecosystem could look like. They also imagine music’s future in 2050 - the hopes, fears, and possibilities of where culture might go next. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Introducing Emma Wilkes & 25 years of DiS 02:00 – Jeremy Corbyn, grassroots venues & music for the many 07:00 – Why music and politics can’t be separated 14:00 – Music as a gateway into politics 15:00 – Ticketmaster, Live Nation & the fight for fairness 18:00 – What is journalism today? 24:00 – Asking questions, telling stories & accountability in music journalism 29:00 – $450m for Joe Rogan: how should money flow into culture? 33:00 – Building connections between artists and audiences 37:00 – Music media as infrastructure 39:00 – Supporting mental health and addiction in the music industry 45:00 – Stress behind the scenes: labels, PRs & campaign work 46:00 – The albums we love and buried treasures 48:00 – Music in 2050: hopes, fears & future sounds 57:00 – What’s next for DiS at 25 Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance. Links: Drowned in Sound Newsletter Emma Wilkes on interviewing Jeremy Corbyn (DiS) Music Venue Trust – safeguarding grassroots venues Music Minds Matter – mental health support for musicians

In music, abuse, harassment and discrimination is normalised whilst accountability and justice is rare, so how can change finally happen? Sign up at http://drownedinsound.org for more on this topic and our weekly newsletter. In this episode of the Drowned in Sound podcast: For the past eight years, journalist and photographer Eliza Hatch has been documenting everyday harassment through her platform Cheer Up Luv. Following her recent Glamour investigation into misogyny in music, which has reached over a million people, DiS founder Sean Adams sat down to talk about the reactions to the stat that more than half of women in the industry have faced discrimination. From government failures to arena tours by artists like Chris Brown and Marilyn Manson, this is a wide ranging conversation about the challenges and the solutions. We also hear how artists like Lambrini Girls and Nova Twins reacted to hearing that over 50% of women in music have faced discrimination. And we talk about the role men can play in smashing the patriarchy, the rise of the far right, and what a safer, more equal music industry could look like by 2050. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Misogyny and music: the scale of the problem 10:30 – Everyday discrimination that builds hostile spaces 20:00 – When the government rejects reform: stalled progress and NDAs 24:00 – The role of media, libel laws, and silence in enabling abuse 26:00 – Chris Brown, Marilyn Manson, and the “separating art from artist” debate 33:00 – Why accountability is so rare in the music industry 42:00 – Smashing the patriarchy is good for men, too 52:00 – The far right, feminism, and why musicians need to speak out 57:00 – What the industry could and should look like in 2050 Continue the Conversation: Email [email protected] with your thoughts or experiences Subscribe to the DiS newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance Links: Cheer Up Luv on Instagram Sign up to the Cheer Up Luv Newsletter Eliza Hatch’s piece for Glamour We Are Music - resources for musicians facing harassment On Wednesdays We Wear Black - Podcast documenting Marilyn Manson’s crimes

What creates a national sound? How does Scotland run through the veins of a band like Idlewild, despite their American influences? Roddy Woomble and Rod Jones from Scottish indie stalwarts Idlewild join us to explore their new self-titled album and dig into the complexities of musical identity. Beginning in Scotland's tight-knit music community, then feeling like outsiders in London, the band reveal how geography and culture have shaped their sound and music over three decades. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 03:00 – Exchange of Ideas: What music as conversation means beyond technical ability 06:00 – Literary Influences: Books, writers, and the Patti Smith revelation 09:00 – Sonic Youth Revolution: How Daydream Nation changed everything about playing guitar 13:00 – Scottish Identity: Self-deprecating culture and the outsider mentality 20:00 – Not Fitting Scenes: Missing Britpop and feeling closer to American bands 26:00 – Community Culture: Regional success and Scottish musical support networks 29:00 – Working with Producers: People skills and studio education 36:00 – New Album Production: Rod as producer capturing "melodic chaos" 40:00 – Visual Identity: Photography, album art, and the 28-year bookend 43:00 – Six Year Gap: COVID, solo projects, and finding renewed energy 47:00 – Rock's Resilience: Why rock refuses to die… Continue the Conversation: Email [email protected] with your thoughts on regional music scenes Share your own experiences of musical identity and belonging Subscribe to DiS newsletter for weekly insights on music and culture Links: Idlewild Official Website New Album: Idlewild (Official Store) Tour Dates

Have music artists finally had enough of the multi-billion dollar streaming platform? Laura Burhenn makes music as The Mynabirds and has played in the Postal Service's live band. When she learned Spotify CEO Daniel Ek invested $700 million in military AI startup Helsing, she pulled her music and uploaded a protest monologue. Her "Disarm Spotify" TikTok videos sparked millions of views and a wave of artist departures followed. Recent acts that have taken their music down include King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard and Godspeed You! Black Emperor. In this episode, we're not just talking about streaming rates but getting into the wider systemic issues with music being turned into bombs. Featured voices from the movement: Novo • Violetta Zironi • Naley By Nature • Dan Mangan Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Musicians boycotting Spotify: the fury and the interconnected issues 04:00 – When music money becomes military funding: the Daniel Ek investment 09:00 – AI drones and the dystopian timeline we're already living 13:00 – The snowball effect: how individual protest becomes movement 18:00 – Platform alternatives: Qobuz, ethics, and where artists go next 23:00 – Releasing protest music on the platform you're protesting 27:00 – Artists participating in their own devaluation: the bigger picture 35:00 – From DC punk to Palestine solidarity: political music evolution 40:00 – Why outspoken artists stay silent about their own platforms Continue the Conversation: Email [email protected] with your platform organising experiences Join the discussion about collective action in the creator economy Subscribe to DiS newsletter for weekly insights on music and resistance Try Qobuz (Ethical Streaming Alternative): Artists get paid 10x more than Spotify. Human-curated playlists. High-quality audio. Start your free trial via DiS (supporting independent music journalism). Links: Laura Burhenn on Instagram The Mynabirds on Bandcamp Laura's piece for Drowned in Sound

How do artists decide what to say when everything from grassroots music to the climate is in crisis? Backstage at Reading Festival, Drowned in Sound’s Sean Adams and Emma Wilkes sat down with Rou Reynolds, the frontman of Enter Shikari, one of the UK's most politically engaged bands. We discuss a range of topics including the St Albans music scene and how they pioneered the grassroots music venue levy - adding £1 to arena tickets to support small venues. With 20 years of activism and seven albums under the band’s belt, Rou’s learned that having a platform means constantly choosing which crisis at a time or polycrisis deserves the spotlight. And we chat a lot about the interconnected issues and the need for system change. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 03:00 – How the £1 venue levy actually works in practice 05:00 – Why supporting grassroots is community organizing, not charity 07:00 – How St Albans scene prepared Enter Shikari for mainstream success 09:00 – The neoliberal isolation crisis and music's role as antidote 11:00 – Connecting Gaza, climate crisis, and music industry exploitation 12:30 – Climate speech: "430 parts per million" and the season finale 16:00 – The impossible choice: which crisis gets the platform tonight? 22:00 – Reading Festival Gaza speech: "This is not a tragedy, it's a war crime" "To be silent in times of atrocity is to assist in maintaining that atrocity" Continue the Conversation: Email [email protected] with your platform responsibility experiences Join the discussion about choosing battles in poly-crisis times Subscribe to DiS newsletter for weekly insights on building alternatives Links: Enter Shikari Official Music Venue Trust Rou chats from COP in Glasgow on the Sounds Like A Plan podcast  

Is rage the soundtrack of summer 2025? Can joy exist alongside political solidarity when climate change turns fields into dust clouds? Are main stages becoming platforms for resistance? And how do grassroots venues create the community foundations that allow festivals like Reading to exist at all? This DiSpatch captures Reading Festival 2025 as both a celebration and political flashpoint - a weekend where Chappell Roan's euphoric main stage triumph coexisted with Palestine solidarity, climate crisis manifestations, and urgent conversations about the grassroots music ecosystem that supports it all. Sean Adams and Emma Wilkes navigate backstage conversations revealing how artists choose which urgent topics to address when "there's a lot of things happening in the world." From Enter Shikari's pioneering grassroots levy work to Cliffords’ Cork scene community building, the episode maps how small venues create the collaborative culture that eventually reaches festival main stages. These conversations connect individual artist journeys to systemic challenges: venue closures, climate impacts, and the intersection of music with broader political movements. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction: Festivals as cultural battlegrounds in climate crisis era 05:00 – Chappell Roan: Joy as political resistance on main stage 08:00 – Cliffords on optimism as radical act and Cork scene collaboration 11:00 – Sofia Isella: From classical training to festival mud, building versatile artistry 16:00 – Rage as summer's soundtrack: Artist perspectives on political expression 22:00 – Enter Shikari: Choosing urgent topics and grassroots levy pioneer work 28:00 – Grassroots venues: Community infrastructure beyond music 35:00 – Climate crisis reaches UK festivals: Dust storms and venue sustainability 43:00 – Political solidarity: Palestine flags and artist platform responsibility 47:00 – Reading 2025: Cultural battleground assessment Featured Links: DrownedInSound YouTube Channel - Full artist interviews from Reading Festival DiS Instagram - Behind-the-scenes festival content and artist clips Grassroots Music Venue Crisis - Learn about the £1 levy supporting venues Muse at Reading Festival 1999 - A history of Muse performances at Reading Festival DiS Bookshop - Supporting independent bookstores and music writing Artists Featured: Chappell Roan, Cliffords, Sofia Isella, Enter Shikari, Heartworms, The Linda Lindas, Mannequin P*ssy, Amyl and the Sniffers, Lambrini Girls, and more About DiSpatch: DiSpatch episodes capture music events as cultural moments that reveal broader political and environmental currents. These aren't traditional festival reviews - they're explorations of how live music spaces become essential infrastructure for community building, political discourse, and cultural resistance in the climate crisis era. Continue the Conversation: Email [email protected] with your thoughts on festivals as political spaces Join the discussion in our community forum about venue sustainability Subscribe to DiS newsletter for climate crisis generation journalism 

What happens when the tech platforms care more about engagement and profits than music? DiS meets music & technology journalist Cherie Hu, the founder of Water & Music, who's spent years mapping how tech giants from Spotify's recommendation algorithms to the venture capital funding streaming platforms. She's built one of music's most essential research operations to help fans and artists understand who really benefits from the current system and how best to use the tech of tomorrow.. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 – Introduction 03:20 – Defining practical futurism and collaborative research 05:40 – From Forbes freelancer to community builder 07:55 – The evolution of Water & Music's collaborative model 12:40 – What collaboration enables now vs. the past 17:25 – Music and media's parallel challenge 22:15 – Building relationships and networks in the attention economy 23:50 – Domain specialisation vs. generalist approach in a noisy media landscape 29:20 – Artists and founders engaging with Water & Music 31:40 – Evergreen content, catalog lessons, and growth strategies 37:25 – Community building fundamentals: patience, trust, and institutional memory 40:05 – Math, music, and creativity 42:10 – Defining what community means 43:30 – Sean's Outro Join the discussion in our community Subscribe to DiS newsletter Guest Links: Water & Music - Independent music industry research Cherie Hu About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, championing independent music since 2000. Through DiS, he maps music's future while supporting artists and fans building alternatives to platform control.

Nirvana, TikTok, analogue aesthetics, and virality don't usually go together. Meet the creator who is bucking all the trends. How do you build genuine community around music in an attention economy designed for extraction? What happens when Nirvana's DIY punk ethics meets TikTok algorithms? Can analog aesthetics and primary source research create alternatives to clickbait culture? This week, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams talks with Royce aka ShoshinBoy - the TikTok creator behind viral music history videos that blend VHS cameras, rotary phones, and deep cultural excavation. From viral Nirvana content (2 million views) to uncovering forgotten Cure folklore, his analog-meets-digital approach reveals how authentic passion can cut through algorithmic noise. Inspired by DIY punk rock culture, ShoshinBoy developed research methodology that prioritises primary sources and contemporary context over Wikipedia aggregation. His anti-gimmick gimmick - talking through vintage technology while analysing YouTube clips of Arctic Monkeys, The Clash, Pavement and many more - started as platform critique but evolved into genuine community building around shared musical mythology. The conversation explores creator economy extraction, the death of mysterious rockstars in parasocial media landscapes, and why nostalgia both preserves and destroys cultural memory. Most importantly, it reveals how DIY ethics can survive on corporate platforms when creators prioritise community service over algorithmic optimisation. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction 04:30 – Defining journalism 08:37 – Everett True's book to TikTok virality 11:59 – The analog setup: Anti-gimmick philosophy 17:05 – Primary sources vs Wikipedia 24:11 – Creator economy critique 34:04 – Nostalgia as cultural force 42:15 – Alternative funding 45:04 – The future of musical mythology in algorithm-driven culture Quotable Moments: "I think that like. At its core, I just wanna be genuine and, and like I said, I'm only doing this 'cause it's fun and it's what I'm compelled to do anyways." [24:00] "I don't think the idea of selling out exists in the year 2023. Acknowledging the idea that just to even pay rent or, or exist as a creative online in the current economy is, is it's so difficult." [26:00] Continue the Conversation: Email [email protected] with your thoughts on DIY ethics in the creator economy Join the discussion in our community forum about preserving musical mythology Share your experiences building authentic community around music passion Guest Links: @shoshinboy on TikTok - Analog music history through VHS and telephone Shoshin Boy on Instagram Referenced in Episode: Everett True – Live Through This: American Rock In The 90s - The story of the grunge phenomenon by Everett True Careless Talk Costs Lives Magazine - Everett True's magazine mentioned Meta Label - Yancy Strickler's collective-focused creative platform Artist Corps - Creative collective experiment mentioned Simon Reynolds - Retromania - Book on nostalgia culture referenced About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication that has championed underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful. This evergreen episode of the DiS podcast was recorded in 2023 and explores how DIY punk ethics can survive and thrive in platform capitalism, revealing alternative paths for creators who prioritise community building over algorithmic extraction in the attention economy.

How do music journalists spot breakthrough artists before they become household names? What does it take to get leftfield artists like Zola Jesus into mainstream publications like Vogue? How can music journalists build trust that transforms both interviews and careers? This week, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams talks with Ilana Kaplan - the music editor at People Magazine and author of "Nora Ephron at the Movies" (Abrams Books, 2024). Following conversations about discovery and algorithms, this episode explores the craft of music journalism: how experienced writers develop taste, build industry relationships, and create the stories that shape how we discover music. From researching artists at the Barnes & Noble magazine racks to recognising Billie Eilish's potential at a Mercury Lounge show to creating the viral boygenius Brokeback Mountain-inspired cover stories for Alternative Press, Ilana's career journey reveals the human curation that algorithms can't replicate. The conversation covers discovery methods, editorial strategy, the changing definition of "alternative music," and why building trust with artists creates better journalism than aggressive questioning. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction 04:30 – What journalism means in the misinformation age 08:37 – Ilana's career beginnings from SPIN intern to music obsessive 11:59 – Spotting stars early: the Billie Eilish gamble that paid off 17:05 – Getting Zola Jesus into Vogue: selling leftfield artists to mainstream editors 24:11 – What does 'alternative' actually mean? 25:07 – boygenius desert shoot: spending your own money for viral covers 34:04 – Blacklisted for honest reporting: when PR controls journalism 45:04 – The hope in innovation and how models are changing 53:22 – Sean's Outro Key Takeaways: Discovery requires human curation: The Hype Machine's organic blog aggregation created an outlet for excitement that algorithms can't replicate Trust transforms journalism: Giving artists space to be heard reveals more than aggressive questioning Editorial bridges build community: Getting Zola Jesus into Vogue shows how to connect leftfield artists with mainstream audiences Investment creates lasting impact: The boygenius desert cover succeeded because someone fought for the vision and funded it personally Taste-making is community service: Early discovery of artists like Billie Eilish demonstrates journalism's role in cultural development Continue the Conversation: Email [email protected] with your thoughts on music journalism's craft Join the discussion in our community forum Guest Links: Nora Ephron at the Movies - Ilana's book published October 2024 @lanikaps on Twitter @lanikaps on Instagram Ilana on Bluesky Referenced in Episode: Defector - Writer-owned sports publication mentioned as model The Hype Machine - Music blog aggregator that shaped early 2010s discovery Rob Sheffield at Rolling Stone - The writer who inspired Ilana's career boygenius in AltPress - The cover feature we discuss The Future Is Written - Huck Magazine profile mentioned in outro About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication that has championed underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful. This episode was recorded in November 2023 during Ilana's transition between staff and freelance work, capturing insights about journalism craft and industry navigation during a period of significant media industry change.

In this special Q&A episode, DiS founder Sean Adams explores the uncomfortable truths about streaming economics, social media burnout, and why the music industry's success metrics are fundamentally broken. From debunking the myth that millions of streams equal financial stability to reframing social media as an extension of artistic practice, Sean answers your questions and offers practical wisdom for navigating an industry designed to exploit rather than support creators. This episode strips away the glossy veneer of streaming success stories to reveal the harsh mathematical reality: an artist with 25 million streams over a decade might earn just £6,000 annually - less than minimum wage, before expenses. Sean explores why massive streaming numbers rarely translate to sustainable live audiences and how platforms like Spotify actively prevent artists from connecting with their own listeners. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: [00:00] Introduction [01:31] What do you tell an artist that has great music but hates social media? [09:46] What will streaming look like in five years? [14:57] Is there still a place for live streaming gigs? [20:37] Does 25 million Spotify streams pay enough to live on? [27:07] The difference between building a fanbase and streaming numbers [32:35] Outro and preview for Part 2 [34:01] Bonus track: Kate Nash on MySpace Key Takeaways: How to transform social media from promotional burden into artistic storytelling extension Recognise the disconnect between streaming numbers and actual audience connection Focus on platforms that enable direct fan communication rather than vanity metrics Consider live streaming only for performances designed specifically for digital consumption Resources Mentioned: Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist by Liz Pelly Benefits' meta-commentary social media approach Moment House platform for curated live streaming Bandcamp for Artists - Direct fan communication model Bandcamp Community Features - Artist-to-fan messaging Questions Answered: Sarah Howells (LinkedIn): Advice for great artists who hate social media Mark Painting (LinkedIn): Will streaming consolidate or fragment in five years? Paul Gaffigan (Email): Is there still a place for live streaming post-lockdown? Tony Moss (Email): Breaking down the 25 million streams success myth Continue the Conversation: Send your questions for future Q&A episodes to [email protected] or find Sean online. What music industry myths need debunking next? About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication that has championed underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful. Next Episode Preview: Part two continues with Sean's analysis of the Disarmed Spotify movement - why musicians are pulling their music and fans are abandoning the platform they once trusted.

What if the very thing that makes you feel like an outsider in the music industry could become your greatest business advantage? How do you build something meaningful when you're convinced you're not qualified? And why might starting before you feel "ready" be the secret to creating lasting change? This week, Sean talks with Isobel Anderson - founder of Girls Twiddling Knobs, one of music tech's most important feminist voices. Following on from the Mary Spender episode about converting online reach into sustainable income, this conversation explores a different path: how small, mission-driven businesses can create industry change without needing massive audiences. From a PhD in Sonic Arts to over 25 million Spotify streams to building Girls Twiddling Knobs into one of music tech's most important feminist voices, reaching thousands of women through courses, community, and her acclaimed podcast, Isobel's journey proves that feeling like an imposter might actually be your qualification. In essence, this episode is about turning industry frustrations into business opportunities, why multiple revenue streams are now reality for musicians, and how to value your work when the world expects creativity for free. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Sean's Introduction: Building Your Independent Music Business 02:41 – Isobel Anderson intro: From Singer-Songwriter to Sonic Arts PhD 08:12 – Why Sound Design and Production Details Matter 10:08 – Confronting Misogyny in the Music Industry 20:05 – From Facebook Group to Girls Twiddling Knobs 24:41 – Overcoming Self-Doubt When Learning Something New 30:46 – Why Great Producers Are More Than Technical Experts 33:48 – Valuing Your Work and Putting a Price on Creativity 46:40 – Are Musicians as Vital to Society as Doctors? 49:37 – Balancing Music-Making with Building a Business 55:54 – Sean's Outro Reflections Key Takeaways: The 10% Edge: You don't need to be an expert to start teaching others - you just need to be one step ahead of the people you want to help. Start Before You're Ready: "You are not going to ever be ready to do this" - perfectionism is the enemy of progress. Mission Before Money: Purpose-driven businesses can be more disruptive than charities because they can make quick decisions and restructure rapidly. Multiple Revenue Streams Are Reality: Modern music careers require diversified income - it's not a backup plan, it's the plan. Community Over Confidence: Building safe learning spaces can be more valuable than traditional "confidence training." Continue the Conversation: Email [email protected] with your thoughts Join the discussion: Drowned in Sound Community Get more music insights: DiS Newsletter Guest Links: Girls Twiddling Knobs Podcast Isobel Anderson - Artist Referenced in Episode: The Anchoress - Artist managed by Sean Girls Twiddling Knobs special episode - The immersive episode Sean references Delia Derbyshire Day - Celebrating the electronic music pioneer The Oram Awards - Recognizing women innovating in music and sound technology About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound and manages artists including Charlotte Church and The Anchoress. Beyond founding one of the original music blogs, he's worked with BBC 6 Music and co-produced political podcast The Trawl. Through the DiS podcast, he maps the future of music by exploring culture, politics, and the systems shaping how we create and consume music. Note: This conversation originally took place a couple of years ago but feels more relevant than ever as musicians navigate the realities of building sustainable, independent careers. If this episode sparks any business ideas, we'd love to hear about them in three years' time.

While most music industry coverage focuses on (poly)crisis and collapse, Mary Spender argues we're living through the greatest era for independent artists in history. But, but but... what about streaming economics, venue closures, and platform dependence? Don't worry, we get into it. With over 100 million YouTube views, 34,000 newsletter subscribers, and significant album sales achieved before releasing a single track to streaming, Mary demonstrates there are viable alternatives to industry doom-spiralling. In this conversation, she reveals her strategies for converting YouTube viewers into album buyers, why artists need to think like entrepreneurs, and what she'd build with Spotify's $400 million Joe Rogan budget. Sean also asks her about her recent video about why artists should embrace YouTube. Speaking of which, you will be able to see clips from this interview over on Drowned in Sound's YouTube: youtube.com/@DrownedinSound Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Timestamps 00:00 Sean's Intro 03:21 What will music be like in 2050? 06:25 Why artists should think like entrepreneurs 12:45 What does the future hold for independent artists? 16:56 The 1000 true fan theory 18:51 Should YouTube be the #1 platform for musicians? 24:36 Researching with an open mind. A rare skillset? 29:45 How to convert an audience from YouTube 34:17 What can the UK government do for music? 36:35 How would Mary spend the $400 million Spotify paid Joe Rogan? 38:39 Is long-form content on the return? 43:29 Sean's Outro   Quotable Moments "Technically it's never been a better time to be a musician than today, even though everyone likes to talk about the heyday. But that was for a very lucky few." "If you don't have the grassroots, you don't have the artists in Wembley Stadium. Like you don't have that trajectory." Continue the Conversation📧 Email [email protected] with your questions for future episodes🌐 Join the Drowned in Sound Community📰 Subscribe to the Drowned in Sound newsletter Guest Links Mary Spender's YouTube Channel Mary's website and newsletter The Dire Straits Documentary on Nebula Referenced in Episode Kevin Kelly's "1000 True Fans" essay About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound (est. 2000), manages artists including Charlotte Church and The Anchoress, and has worked with BBC 6 Music. Through this podcast, he maps the future of music by exploring culture, politics, and the systems shaping how we create and consume music. At its peak, Drowned in Sound had over 3 million readers. Stay tuned for details about its 25th anniversary celebrations.

What does it feel like to attend Glastonbury for the first time? Music journalist Emma Wilkes brings us along for her debut pilgrimage to the UK's landmark musical gathering. She spins us a sonic diary with interviews from Terminal 1 and Laima Layton, along with reactions to some of the politically charged moments of the festival (shouts to Amyl and the Sniffers). Along the way, there are vox pops with strangers, overlooked corners, and moments that slipped under the mainstream radar… Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters:  00:00 Introduction 01:51 Pre-festival preparation with Emma Wilkes 03:26 Attendees' expectations of Glastonbury 2025 04:22 First impressions and Thursday observations 06:19 Terminal 1 and an interview with Laima Layton 18:32 The sounds of Worthy Farm 19:12 How does the real-life festival compare to the coverage seen previously? 21:45 The political moments of Glastonbury 2025 30:42 The journey home, the Tuesday after, and a summary from a slightly raspy Emma 34:11 Expectations vs. reality with the people of the festival Mentioned in the episode: Laima Layton In Place Of War GRRRL Terminal 1 Amyl and the Sniffers JADE Seun Kuti Maruja Lambrini Girls Join the conversation: Drowned in Sound Community Email: [email protected] Stay updated: Subscribe to DiS newsletter

How do you build genuine community when algorithms reward viral moments over real connection? What if sustainable music careers start with just five super fans rather than chasing millions of followers? Drowned in Sound founder & artist manager Sean Adams speaks with Nikki Camilleri - music strategist, Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree, and founder of mana - about the ground-level realities of building a music career in 2025. From growing up in Malta and navigating geographic disadvantage to working with breakthrough artists like Cat Burns, Nikki breaks down what actually works in today's oversaturated landscape. This conversation digs deep into authentic community-building versus audience accumulation, the "five super fans" principle that challenges conventional wisdom, and why most artist advice around social media is fundamentally broken. Plus: Nikki's vision for fixing music industry infrastructure by 2050, including transparency tools and direct fan connection platforms that don't rely on algorithmic gatekeepers. "You need five super fans to start getting going - that's equal to about 250 passive fans. When you start looking at it that way, it doesn't seem as daunting." — Nikki Camilleri on why quality beats quantity in fan building Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Episode Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction: Music Reality Check for 2025 02:03 Envisioning Music in 2050: Transparency and Infrastructure 04:34 The Malta Factor: Geographic Disadvantage in Digital Times 08:26 The Resilience Crisis: From "Ready to Fight" to Viral Expectations 16:28 Five Super Fans vs Viral Algorithms: Quality Over Quantity 20:14 Real Community vs Audience: Building Genuine Connection 32:15 Artist Purpose and Identity: The "Horror Electronica" Story 39:21 Fixing the Industry: Where Would You Spend Spotify's Money? 44:48 Key Takeaways: What Actually Works   Mentioned in the episode: Nikki Camilleri ROSTR Royal Society of Arts Volt.fm Kat Abu The Anchoress Kevin Kelly on 1000 True Fans Join the conversation: Drowned in Sound Community Email [email protected]   Subscribe to DiS newsletter  

What does it mean to “metabolize” emotion through music? Do wellness tools actually work better when paired with your favourite artist? Why does the music industry treat artists like products and not caregivers? Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams is joined by Ariana Alexander-Sefre, co-founder of the mental health app SPOKE⁠, to talk about the future of therapy and how music can play a pivotal role in that. The conversation explores the science behind sound, the emotional toll on musicians, and why music should be taken seriously as a public health tool. Spoke has worked with over 100 artists, training them in techniques like CBT and mindfulness to embed into lyrics and melodies - and the results are changing lives. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Episode chapters: 0:00 - 2:45 - Introduction 2:46 - 4:55  What would Ariana hope music to be like in 2050? 4:56 - 7:46 Using music to “metabolize” emotions 7:47 - 11:50 Who are SPOKE and who is Ariana Alexandre-Sefre 11:51 - 13:42 The relationship between music and mental health 13:43 -  20:28 Inside the SPOKE app - embedding music with culture with therapy 20:29 - 31:18 Why the music industry needs a fresh perspective on artist value 31:19 - 37:08 The science behind functional music and mindfulness 38:09 - 40:04 The real-world impact of therapy delivered through music 40:05 - 48:08 Can artists become a recognised part of healthcare? 48:09 - 54:13 - Closing thoughts from Sean Mentioned in the episode: Music Minds Matter Can Music Make You Sick? (Sally Anne Gross) Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Cost of the Perfect Playlist (Liz Pelly) Endel Join the conversation: Drowned in Sound Community Email: [email protected] Subscribe to DiS newsletter  

What does a melting glacier sound like? Can a rainforest sing? And what happens when the last bird of its species hears a recording and tries to reply? In this special live edition of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, recorded at Tallinn Music Week, host Sean Adams moderates a powerful conversation on music, ecology, and collective action. Joined by artists and innovators from the EarthSonic project, the panel explores how field recordings, plant biofeedback, and immersive sound can shift our understanding of the planet — and why that emotional shift matters. From Brazil’s disappearing biodiversity to sound fossils in the Swiss Alps, this episode weaves together music, activism, and indigenous wisdom in an urgent yet hopeful conversation about art’s role in averting climate collapse. Plus Ruth from In Place of War reveals their new project with Bicep in Greenland that launches in summer 2025. Featured Guests & Projects: ⁠Natural Symphony (Joey Dean)⁠ ⁠Ludwig Berger⁠ ⁠In Place of War / EarthSonic (Ruth Daniel)⁠ ⁠Martyn Ware (Heaven 17 / Human League)⁠ Episode Highlights & Timestamps: 03:00 – Ruth Daniel on the origins of In Place of War and EarthSonic 06:00 – Ludwig Berger: Listening to melting glaciers through hydrophones 11:00 – Martyn Ware (Heaven 17/The Human League) on sonifying endangered species and synthetic forests 17:00 – Natural Symphony: Collaborating with plants and reforesting the Amazon 27:00 – The power of sound to bridge disconnection and inspire action 33:00 – Building cultural change through art and emotional resonance 39:00 – Sound healing, deep listening, and making the unseen audible 45:00 – What capitalism doesn’t want us to feel — and why art matters 52:00 – Indigenous wisdom, urban detachment, and finding your own tree 58:00 – Hopeful projects, collective agency, and calling in the music industry Mentioned in the Episode: "The Last Scream" new release Crying Glacier movie EarthSonic panel replay via the TMW.EE website Join the Conversation: Drowned in Sound Community Email Sean → [email protected] Follow Sean on Bluesky Subscribe to the DiS Newsletter

What did the future sound like when the synthesizer first arrived? What does it feel like now, with AI looming and immersive audio spaces on the rise? In this special episode of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, recorded at Tallinn Music Week, Sean Adams speaks with Martyn Ware — founder of The Human League and Heaven 17, producer for acts ranging from Tina Turner to Erasure, and creator of some of the UK’s most ambitious sound installations. This is a conversation about optimism and dystopia, about punk and purpose, and about how DIY culture in Sheffield shaped a career that’s still future-facing today. Martyn also reflects on his podcast Electronically Yours, the legacy of sound, and how creative freedom can reshape confidence, community, and cultural memory. Timestamps & Topics: 01:32 – Synths, Sheffield, and starting out 07:00 – Curiosity and creative confidence 10:00 – From charts to immersive installations 14:30 – Podcasting and preserving legacy 20:00 – What would a Martyn Ware bar sound like? 25:00 – Optimism, memory, and what comes next Further Listening & Resources: 🎙️ Electronically Yours podcast 🔊 Illustrious Company (immersive audio) 🧠 Sounds of Our Shores installation Stay Connected: 🗣 Drowned in Sound Community 📩 Email Sean → [email protected] 🔵 Follow Sean on Bluesky 📰 Subscribe to the DiS Newsletter About the Guest: Martyn Ware is a pioneering British musician, producer, and sound artist. As a founding member of The Human League and Heaven 17, and co-founder of British Electric Foundation, he helped define the sound of synth-pop while pushing boundaries in spatial audio, immersive installations, and political music-making. He also hosts the acclaimed podcast Electronically Yours. About the Host: Sean Adams turned his passion for music into Drowned in Sound, a UK-based music platform that launched in 2000. He also manages artists like Charlotte Church and The Anchoress, and works across strategic communications in the music and creative sectors.

What's it like to be an artist right now? And what does the future of music look like? Will it be AI-generated slop or a joyful return to community and creativity? In this episode of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, Sean Adams speaks to Becky Hawley from the art-pop trio Stealing Sheep. From the launch of their new label G-IRL (Girl In Real Life) to their reflections on DIY culture, Liverpool’s music scene, and 15 years of creative evolution, this episode is full of inspiring insights about building something real in a digital world. Expect discussion of Daft Punk, community over algorithms, mechanical bulls, offline joy, and what it really means to be a band in 2025. 📌 Key Timestamps: 00:00 – Intro & New Album Campaign 01:56 – What Will Music Be Like in 2050? 04:54 – Joy, Fears, and Creative Challenges 07:19 – The Sound of Stealing Sheep: Riding the Bull of Tech 10:37 – G-IRL: Launching Their Own Record Label 20:33 – Liverpool as Inspiration & Music City 25:23 – Album Campaign Concepts & Offline Joy 29:18 – Let’s Go! New Single & Album Themes 30:59 – Artistic Identity, Collaborations & Creative Growth 33:50 – Lessons Learned from 15 Years in Music 38:05 – Building Community, Offline Spaces, & Human Connection 42:57 – Supporting Grassroots Scenes 49:01 – AI, Future Tech & Music’s Utopian Possibilities 52:21 – Final Reflections: What Artists Need to Unlearn Links New Single “Let’s Go” Watch the Music Video Tatty Devine Collab Guerrilla Girls Join the Conversation: 🗣 Drowned in Sound Community 📩 Email Sean → [email protected] 🔵 Follow on Bluesky About the Guest: Becky Hawley is one-third of Stealing Sheep, a Liverpool-based band known for their innovative, genre-defying sound. The trio recently launched their own record label, G-IRL (Girl In Real Life), to support their own work and that of other boundary-pushing creatives. About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, a pioneering music webzine launched in 2000. He also manages artists like Charlotte Church and The Anchoress, and works across campaigns that support independent and ethical approaches to music and media.

A conversation about Fresh Hell, subcultures in nature, and shifting the climate narrative through creativity. In this episode of the podcast that maps what music will be like in 2050 by meeting cultural changemakers and pioneers, Sean Adams explores how the Fresh Hell zine - a collaboration between creatives from the agency Iris and Purpose Disruptors (download it here) - reframes our relationship with nature through goth culture, beauty, and imagination. Featuring clips from Freya Beer’s special Gothic Disco radio broadcast recorded at Walthamstow Wetlands (listen to it on Mixcloud here), featuring reflections from Lira Valencia and Chris Packham, which inspired the zine, we explore what happens when goth culture meets the natural world. This conversation with Purpose Disruptors who run the Agency for Nature & the creators of Fresh Hell zine, examines how creativity can help us move from awe of the natural world to cultural transformation—and what musicians, media, and fans can do to help shift the climate crisis narrative. Aimee Brewerton – Comms & Engagement Manager at Purpose Disruptors, working across climate-focused storytelling, brand strategy, and cultural transformation. Nicole Vanner – Designer at Iris, co-creator of Fresh Hell, blending gothic subculture with natural aesthetics in visual communication. Andrew Hadley – Copywriter at Iris, co-author of Fresh Hell, exploring language that rewilds desire and reframes our connection to nature. Purpose Disruptors – A UK-based network of 5,000+ creative professionals transforming the advertising industry to align with climate goals and societal well-being. Iris – A global creative agency known for working with progressive brands and championing purpose-driven campaigns. Agency for Nature – A project platform by Purpose Disruptors that reimagines communications through a regenerative, nature-first lens — including campaigns like Fresh Hell. Episode Summary & Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction: Can Music Change the Climate Conversation? 00:31 Exploring the Goths in Nature Project 01:23 Meeting the Change Makers 04:20 Chris Packham's Punk and Nature Connection 06:52 The Future of Our Planet in 2050 11:27 Purpose Disruptors: Changing the Advertising Narrative 14:17 Creating the Goths in Nature Magazine 25:09 The Role of Nature in Mental Health 30:01 Spotting the Moor Hen 30:52 Goth Music and Personal Favorites 31:20 From Radio Show to Zine 32:44 Chris Packham's Contribution 35:04 Celebrating Nature and Subculture 38:49 Nature as a Client 40:00 Collaborative Efforts and Creative Freedom 48:01 Impact and Mindset Shift 58:39 Future Hopes and Accountability 01:08:32 Final Thoughts and Call to Action Featured Links & Resources: Fresh Hell Zine Purpose Disruptors Freya Beer’s Gothic Disco Lira Valencia (Instagram) Bird Nerdeem (Instagram) Freya Beer (Instagram) Agency for Nature Walthamstow Wetlands Lawyers for Nature Earth Percent Creatives for Climate Good Life 2030 short film Songs Mentioned: Something to Remember Me By – The Horrors This Corrosion – Sisters of Mercy Soundtrack to previous episodes by Sound Mirror now available on Bandcamp Join the Conversation: Drowned in Sound Community Email: [email protected] Follow on Bluesky Upgrade to support my work: Subscribe to the Drowned in Sound newsletter

Drowned in Sound founder and DiS podcast host, Sean Adams answers your questions. Send Qs for future episodes to [email protected]. Links mentioned in this episode Article: Cafe Oto at Oscars - The Guardian Artist Recommendation: Nina Versyp Artist Recommendation: TTSSFU Artist Recommendation: Maella  Video: Apple on Dolby Atmos Ticket App: Dice Link: Tim Burgess listening party Article: Bjork immersive album Bowers + Wilkins  Drink: Icelandic drink Black Death Venue Recommendation: Trades Club in Hebden Bridge Music by Sound Mirror, available on Bandcamp here: https://sound-mirror.bandcamp.com/album/lake-wind-water-mountain Your Questions: Alex Lee Thompson: Are ”scenes” over? Unpack that question as you like Simon Marshall: After the excellent live bands to look out for article, sponsored by Seetickets, I would be interested in your views on the ticket selling part of the music industry - as a music consumer the DICE app was and is a revelation, what is your experience, and what is the best place to buy to support artists and venues?  Ear Protect Req: What three bands or artists should we be checking out live? Soundmirrorworld: Will the Atmos, immersive audio bubble burst? Or keep going ’til we’re full frontal? Alex Botten: What do you think about the hoards of zombie cover bands eating up local venues. Are they helping or hurting the scene? (I believe profoundly hurting) Eric Weiner: Would love to hear your thoughts on the listening party. Are they ever any good? What’s the perfect album release party? Grimes quote in full: Honestly the thing I like most about k pop is its an actual scene - reminds me Canadian punk scenes or the indie scene  back in the day where like if your integrated enough there's like a constant feed of beauty with sort of known rituals, built in community, and like a collective excitement that is contagious and life affirming. I see how music scenes function effectively as a quasi religious institutions in a secular society. The extreme corporatization of music followed by Covid was very culturally harmful imo cuz a healthy modern music scene is actually a functional religious replacement - if one assumes the mind is better served by access to a healthy community that produces art, has events, shared morality and values, messiahs haha etc. Techno and emo rap similarly ensnared me over the last decade to an extent but they seem less "all ages"