Eyes Wide

Maya shares with us her experience immigrating to Mexico from the United States as a young child, becoming enthralled with the Ranchera genre of Mexican music and getting to where she is today, singing all over the world and composing for TV.

<figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > <a data-sqsp-image-classic-block-image-link class=" sqs-block-image-link " href="https://www.juliustoyryla.com/joki-jota-ei-voi-koskettaa" > The Elusive Symbolism of Dreams & Death—Julius Töyrylä Listen above, on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Transcript:I’m Alexa Ashley and this is Eyes Wide. In this episode we hear from artist and photographer Julius Töyrylä, who has been recording his dreams since he can remember. In 2018, he woke up from a particularly meaningful dream, remembering two words he didn’t understand. He inquired with linguistic professor Michelle Black and learned that the words were from an Indigenous language spoken in the Andes region, and also in his birthplace of Colombia, from where he was adopted to Finland. The language is called Quechua.When he was five years old he was told by his Finnish parents about a birth sister who passed away before he was born. The incident left him with an eerie feeling about someone, somewhere, invisible.&nbsp;In his latest photography project Black Book, Julius reshapes and analyzes his dreams with the medium of photography. His photos often contain a woman figure, usually without a face, and objects from nature depicted in a twisted and surreal kind of way. After viewing his exhibition at Taller Sangfer in Oaxaca City, Mexico, I sat down with Julius to explore the elusive symbolism of dreams and death.Alexa Ashley: To start, tell me a little bit about growing up as you.Julius Töyrylä: Oh, that’s a good question. We’re going hard from the beginning I guess. Damn. I was really lonely because I was an only child. And you were in the exhibition and saw some of the works there. So there was the picture of the woman sitting and she has the light in front of her face. There’s a story behind it, close to my life also. Do you want to hear it?Alexa: Please.Julius: Do you want the short version or the longer version?Alexa: Whatever you’re willing to give me, Dear.Julius: I want to give you the longer one. Ok, let’s go. Before I was in our family of now three people, I had a sister. But she unfortunately passed away after birth.&nbsp;Alexa: I’m sorry.&nbsp;Julius: Yeah, I know. And then I was adopted from Colombia to a Finnish family. And they told me a story when I was like five years old or something like that. But I’ve always had this strange feeling that there should be someone there, and there’s nobody. But also a feeling of like something similar, like the feeling that you have a sister but you don’t. Hard thing to explain; but anyway.&nbsp;A few years back from here, we were on vacation, my family. In Spain. And I was just looking at the sea. And then, this strange dreamlike feeling came over me for some reason, and it started to get dark. It was like a perfect moment in a way. And then I looked at the sea and I looked at how it waved, back and forth, and I got this feeling that now is the time to remember her. Her name is Paula. And I was like, “Hm, what can I do now to really remember her?” Not just a memory but something else in a way. And I didn’t have my camera with me, so I was like, “Maybe I do an act or something.”&nbsp;So, then I decided, as it got dark, I saw the stars. I thought, “Let’s be romantic.” And I looked at the sky and I was like, “I’ll go under the brightest star and I’ll get something from the ground.” Memorabilia or an amulet or something from that moment, because it was so strong. Then I started to walk, like five kilometers away. Then I got to the spot, I was looking up and was like “This is it.” It was like a beach, a rocky beach.&nbsp;And so I put my hand down and got something from the ground. It was like a little stone. But what is strange to me at least is that the stone was a little heart-shaped. I’m not making this up! It felt like it had a lot of emotion. It was a green one. I got it back to Finland. It was 2019, so I started working with this project “Black Book” in 2018, so just a year later this happened. And so I went to Finland and thought, “Now I have the rock in my bag, incorporate that into my work.”&nbsp;In my exhibition, the woman with the light in her face but also the rock. I also made the portrait of my friend back in Finland. And the reason for the light, for not seeing the model’s face is because some of my dreams are really abstract. And there’s these really strong dreams that have this—it’s hard to explain—but a strong feeling behind them. And in those dreams there’s a woman figure—for some reason, she never has a face. So that’s the reason behind that series of photos.&nbsp;I also brought that stone with me there. So it’s in the corner of the exhibition there. That’s the story behind that picture and also what it was like growing up, because I always had that thought in my head. I had never done any acts towards it. Just now, when I’m grown up, I’ve started to make art from the personal stuff.&nbsp;Ugh, that was so hard to explain, but I did it! Thanks for asking; we’re going personal straight away.Alexa: So, you were told when you were five about your sister? You said you had the feeling like there should have been someone there. Did you have that before you were five, if you can remember?Julius: I guess between five and seven, for some reason, because those are the ages when I remember little glimpses of life. I guess everybody has that first memory. The first memory when you became conscious in a way. I guess you have had one of those also, haven’t you? Do you remember? So I guess my first memory was from seven years old, but I remember because my mom and dad told me that when I was five. But I guess I started to think about it when I was seven, because I don’t remember things before that.Alexa: And this was your adoptive family who told you about your sister?Julius: It was my Finnish family. So my adopted thing was—I was given away by my biological family. Not an orphanage spot, but kind of like that, like a child group home. And I got some papers with it—for example, the reason and stuff like that, which shortly said that the family in Colombia didn’t have the resources or finances, they couldn’t have just one more child. They decided to go adoption. But I have a picture of my mom, and the most amazing thing is she looks exactly like me. The photo is so cool because it’s like a bad photocopy, but it looks just like me, straight up. Yeah, it’s fun.&nbsp;Alexa: Were you told at the same time that you were adopted that you had a sister, or were they different times?Julius: I can’t remember. It feels like the adoption thing, it feels like a traumatic thing in a way, because it’s so different from everyone else’s lives, at least back in Finland. So I guess it has stuck to me more than with my sister. I also had this natural feeling towards death. I have always thought about death in a certain way, from when I was a small child. And I’m not sure if it’s something to do with a traumatic perception of that adoption.&nbsp;For example, I was really close to my grand-grandmother, and when she died I remember really vividly that funeral because everyone was crying, but I didn’t cry. And it’s just a child thing that I didn’t know what was going on. Being honest, I remember I knew what was going on. I knew she was gone forever, but somehow it didn’t affect me in that way that I would cry.&nbsp;In a way I was kind of happy for her. And it’s really strange because I was so young. Like seven, eight years old at that time. But that thing has followed me into adulthood also.&nbsp;Alexa: Sometimes I feel like people have a natural ability to feel closer to people or things after they’ve passed. Do you feel that?Julius: Yeah I think I do feel that. That’s a good way of putting it, that is. I’m not sure if it comes naturally to people, but it feels like it comes naturally to me. And I’ve always made imaginary stories in my head, like what happens to my ghost when I die, and stuff like that, from a young age. So I guess every child has a vivid imaginary world, but that was my world. Filled with dead loved ones, in a way. Sounds like I’m a really morbid person. Death! From the darkness of Finland, you know? <figure data-test="image-block-v2-outer-wrapper" data-sqsp-image-classic-block-layout="card" class=" sqs-block-image-figure image-block-outer-wrapper image-block-v2 design-layout-card combination-animation-none individual-animation-none individual-text-animation-none image-position-left image-linked " data-scrolled > <a data-sqsp-image-classic-block-image-link href="https://www.juliustoyryla.com" class=" sqs-block-image-link image-inset" data-animation-role="image" data-description="" > “Every child has a vivid imaginary world, but that was my world. Filled with dead loved ones.”—Julius Töyrylä Alexa: I kind of see a similarity between your latest explorations in dreams and death. It’s seemingly a state that is just as real as this one, at least it feels that way when we’re there. Do you feel that resonance between dreams and death?Julius: Yes I do. There’s an anecdote from—I can’t remember the book right now—that when a person goes to sleep, they die in a way. They enter another realm of the human psyche—you could say it that way. And I have had that same feeling. And I was a really anxious kid, and anxious to this day. I have also had this anxious feeling when I close my eyes because it’s not static, I always see something going on. For some reason, from a young age, that was really important to me.&nbsp;Alexa: What do you see?Julius: I see these little—I call them particles or something—but particles of different colors and they just move in different ways. And sometimes I have the sensation of smoke, of smoke coming to me and then going away. And there’s some red incorporated, some red color, I guess that comes from the eyelids.&nbsp;But for me, there is a strong connection between death, dreams and photography because the most famous philosopher who ever wrote something about photography was Roland Barthes. One of the things he said that stuck with me, is that photography is the closest art form to death, because every time you take a photo and look at it, you realize that this thing will pass away some day, will be dead some day.* The realization for him came from the photos of his family, his mother. And he realized that there’s death always in the photograph. That’s a really interesting fact for me. And I’ve always thought that when I look at photos—even if it’s just a photo on Instagram. But if you really think about it, “Oh my god this will pass some day.”&nbsp;Alexa: Or it already has.Julius: Or it already has of course. But this whole world will be over some day.&nbsp;Alexa: You started recording them in 2014?Julius: Yes, I started pretty late. The work is really inspired from the Jungian psychology. That part of psychology, at least for me, if you read it in a certain way, is really esoteric. And that is something I feel that dreams are. For example, I’ve read Freud but it’s too analytical for me, and that sex drive thing is something that I can’t wrap my head around. And I’m not a scholar in that field. But when I look at it with artistic eyes, I found so much more ground to walk on from the Jungian field.&nbsp;Alexa: Can I read a part of your words from your little Black Book?Julius: You may.&nbsp;Alexa: I really enjoyed the copy and text that went with your exhibition a lot. It was part of the reason I was really drawn to your work, and the intentionality behind it is really beautiful.&nbsp;Julius: Thank you. I want to say so much credit goes to Anna and Dylan who helped me with the english translation, so thank you.&nbsp;Alexa: So you’re talking about one dream you saw in 2018. And you say, “In this dream I found myself in an unknown mountain area that was partly a place from my childhood home in Finland. Before waking up I discovered a rural parking lot and heard a song. After waking up I recalled two words from the dream, cuni and cuncush. I left wondering what those words were. I had no idea. I discovered that roughly translated the word cuni means “I give” and cuncush is an equivalent to a specific plant that grows in a mountain area in the Andes. I also have a whole new perspective of dreaming. I wonder what is this whispering of a dream. The one collective thing in the human psyche is that we all dream. That is a beautiful thing to think and make art about. <figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > <a data-sqsp-image-classic-block-image-link class=" sqs-block-image-link " href="https://www.juliustoyryla.com" > Alexa: I paraphrased a little bit, but I wonder if after that dream, and making this series of photographs, you’ve had any more discoveries about what is that whispering of a dream.&nbsp;Julius: It’s really hard to explain, because in 2018 I started the journey of making art from the dreams, and it was because of that dream. And it’s really closely related to my heritage also because the plant cuncush is growing in the Peru area, actually. And I’m planning to end the work in Peru next year.&nbsp;I have had some realizations about the dream world. I still don’t know what it is though, and I guess I will never find out exactly. But one thing that I do believe in is the universal or collective symbols in dreams. Because everyone when they dream sees the same things, in a way. You can see a forest, you can see a woman without a face. It’s a collective thing in a way, because we all do dream those kind of things. But then the meaning is in the personal realm of the psyche.&nbsp;What I want to discover is if a dream can show me something mysterious from the real world. That is the one thing that happened to me in that dream. It’s hard to explain, because I didn’t know what those words were. I still have them in my phone in the notes. cuncush and cuni. It’s really hard to explain how they came to my conscious, or my subconscious. How did they go there, but also why did they come? It’s so mysterious and esoteric to me, and I want to dive into the world of dreams more now.&nbsp;And for me, it’s whispering—that’s the most poetic way to say it. Because “whisper” is really quiet, and usually when you wake up from a dream, the dream just disappears. It’s quiet. But those dreams that I’m putting in this project are dreams that Carl Jung called “big dreams.” Dreams that have significance to the person who sees them. They can act like memories in a way. So if you have memories from your childhood when you ate an apple, also you can have that same feeling but from a dream. It’s really mysterious to me. How come they struck so hard, those dreams?&nbsp;I’ve only had those dreams like ten times, but I remember all of them. The most interesting to me is the first dream I ever had, and I still remember it. And it was when my great-grandmother died. And it was after I was told of her death; I remember when I went to sleep that night I saw this dream where I was walking in a swamp area, and it was red. Dark red or orange, but there were no sounds. No sounds. I was walking in the swamp, there should be sounds you know? But there were no sounds, nothing. And I came to this pond of water that was blackish, and there were forests around in the pond, but they were all dead trees—black, gray, dark gray. And then from the forest from the left of me, came this figure. And it had a black coat on, and was flying over the water. Maybe hovering over the water. It stopped in the middle of the pond.&nbsp;And then in the middle of the dream, I remember something happened. I was pulled towards the figure, and it turned towards me, and I saw this face, like a white woman’s face. Really scary to me, and I remember it screamed. Screamed really loud. I woke up to the scream, and it wasn’t my scream. I just heard the scream really loud. And then when I woke up for, let’s say two seconds, I still heard the scream. I was just shocked. I didn’t start to cry, but I did start to sweat. I was so scared of that thing. And still to this day I remember vividly. It was like a story, a memory for me.&nbsp;Alexa: Have you noticed certain things in your dreams since then? Are there common symbols?Julius: Yes there are. A lot of those symbols can be seen in the work. There’s birds, trees, ground, the grass. Those kinds of things, at least in the dreams I remember vividly. Also that figure of the woman that doesn’t have a face, that’s one of them. But in the work, for me, it’s too naive to take photos that replicate the dream. I just want to to turn it into something else. For me, it’s like I go to my dream world by taking the photos. I’m creating something that is really close to a dream, but it’s not the dream. What I’m hoping to achieve, when the work is done, is to have dream-text, and the photos with it, and just see what happens. That’s the way I’m working right now. I don’t know how it will turn out.&nbsp;Alexa: What do you like about photography in this work? Is there a guiding purpose or is it more a working out of something?Julius: I have to say you have really good questions. I guess what I like about photography is the sudden magic it gives to you. I started with analog photography, and I remember I would take the photos and wait for them to develop and see them. That was magical to me, the process of photography. And after I got my first digital camera, I could see that magic right away. I took the photo and could see it in the screen.&nbsp;It hit me that there is something in here. I didn’t know how to explain it when I started—I was 15 or something. Now, thinking about it backwards, it was the death thing. I just knew that this is something special and I can make magic with it. I can make something beautiful with it. I guess that’s the main reason I like photography. Not maybe more than other art forms, but it’s the most interesting for me.&nbsp;Alexa: Why?Julius: It’s because it’s so close, so personal. Every time you take photos or make a series, it tells the story of the subject. It also tells the story of you. And that’s really interesting to me. I see photos people take and I actually like to think more about the person who made it. How did they get in those situations and why? So, because it’s so related to the artist also. Not in a narcissistic way.&nbsp;Alexa: As you know, I’m reading this book, The Dream of the Earth, by Thomas Berry and I was telling you that for him, it seems that our collective story really shapes our evolution and where we go. I’m wondering when you look at your photos that you’ve taken, what is the story about you that you get from viewing your own work?&nbsp;Julius: You mean, when I look at my own photos, what do I feel?&nbsp;Alexa: Do you think about you as a photographer as you do with other photographers?Julius: No, when I look at my own photos I’m trying to understand the artistic side of me. Because I’ve always had this feeling from my childhood that there’s two people inside of me. It’s really hard to explain, but I guess you can put it symbolically. I have the waking me, and the me that’s not awake. Like conscious and subconscious. <a role="presentation" aria-label="" class=" image-slide-anchor content-fit " > <a role="presentation" aria-label="" class=" image-slide-anchor content-fit " > <a role="presentation" aria-label="" class=" image-slide-anchor content-fit " > So when I look at the photos, I also learn what’s the state of my subconscious. When I look at these photos, I feel that everything is really good, but not fully evolved in a form that I can fully understand, if that makes sense. For example, in this exhibition that has those pictures, I feel pretty good. I feel like I have the sense of romanticism, a little bit of naivety there also.&nbsp;But I really like to make little things stand out and look beautiful. And that is also really important to me. When I meet people I want to be really respectful and interested. I guess it’s like a personality thing. I can see a little bit of my personality in the pictures. But that’s just for me. I can never fully understand what another person feels when they look at the photos.&nbsp;Alexa: I’ve noticed your work featuring and elevating the ordinary; a rock, the grass, or trees. I’m wondering when you feel like you started noticing ordinary things.&nbsp;Julius: One way to think about it for me is like what I was saying about the symbolism of the dream. When you see a photograph of the forest, in a way it’s a symbol of the forest. And what that symbol means to you is the question you have to ask yourself. That’s one way of looking at it.&nbsp; <figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > <a data-sqsp-image-classic-block-image-link class=" sqs-block-image-link " href="https://www.juliustoyryla.com" > I’ve always noticed the little things, I guess that’s why I’m a photographer in a way. Because you observe things that speak to you. That is one thing that in my opinion makes a good photographer. If they are really honest with themselves, they start to notice things they are really passionate about. And for some reason I just like to see the beauty of trees and grass and birds and stuff like that.&nbsp;Alexa: What do they say to you?Julius: They make me feel really calm. And in every photo I have in the exhibition, there’s a story behind the photo. It always had me feeling. There’s always a story behind the photo, or there’s a story of how or why I made it. And it’s really close to the thought of the dreams that I’ve had that are really impactful for me. So they way I work, which photos I choose, if there’s a problem for me of which one I choose, I put the one with more feeling for me when I was taking it.&nbsp;For example, there’s a picture of a bird in the sky. How I did it was…it was shot in Japan so it’s an old picture. It was from 2017. But I was laying in the grass, and there was a beautiful Kamogawa River next to me. And I just took my camera, I wanted to take a picture of the sky. Just the sky, nothing else. But then, the bird just happened to be there. And I just took the photo, and it was like a happy coincidence, like Bob Ross would say.&nbsp;And after I looked at the photo, I noticed there was another small bird somewhere in the distance. And I just liked the coincidence. I almost put the photo with only the sky. But for some reason this has more feeling. This makes me feel more amazed in a way, that this bird just came to me. And for some reason I have also had a close relation to folklore, different culture’s folklore. And the bird has been a big symbol, at least in the Western folklore. They bring messages and things like that. So it was closely related to that feeling for me. It seemed like the bird was giving me the photo. It was a coincidence, but then again you can think that the bird was purposefully there in a strange way. Not in a naive way but in a strange way.&nbsp;Alexa: Do you have a way of telling what was “for” us, and what is “for” you? The feeling of, “Oh, this bird was for me and gave this photo to me.” How do you feel that?Julius: It’s maybe because of frequency. I feel like if I’m in the right frequency with the world, these types of things are happening. If I’m aware of them, they might happen. Or, if my subconscious takes over, if I’m really calm and relaxed. Almost every time in those situations something magical happens.&nbsp;Alexa: That’s powerful. Do you have ways of getting to that feeling of relaxed? Maybe we can call it no-mind.&nbsp;Julius: Yeah, we can call it that.&nbsp;Alexa: Especially for someone who deals with, and has dealt with anxiety.Julius: For example, it’s like meditation of course. It has helped me be more with it, with the feeling. For me, it cannot be always on. For me, at least, in this time and space. It happens when it happens. You can’t force it. The happy coincidence is the best way to describe it, two powerful words. It’s almost like magic for me, because I don’t know how it happens. It feels like the world or something around me is giving me a gift, if I can just close my mind from all the thoughts that are not important. It feels like if I do that, the world will give me a gift. And for me, because I love making art, it comes in the form of art. That’s the best way of describing it.&nbsp;Alexa: Does the art also give you anything after it’s made? Or is it mainly that the art is the gift itself?Julius: It’s hard to explain. For me, it feels like when I make the artwork. After that, it’s almost like a child. It just hangs in the world and does its own thing. Part of it is not situated to me. But the best thing I get from art—well the analytical side of me thinks that if someone buys the art, it’s always nice—but when we get down to the core of the thing, I love when someone says to me that they love the art. Or gets in touch with me and says that they were really touched by it. That’s intimate conversation, in a way. I’ve had a conversation with myself; made the art. No words were needed, in a way, but I communicated with someone.&nbsp;If someone puts the effort of writing or telling me something, it feels like having a really intimate relationship with that person. The fun in it is that I might never see this person, they might just write me something, and I never meet them. But we have a mutual understanding and that’s the best thing in art. It brings—to say it naively—it brings us together. I really love that side of making art.Alexa: That’s beautiful. Has it helped with feelings of loneliness from childhood?Julius: Yeah, actually here in Oaxaca it has. Because I guess people are more in tune with the realism of the art world. People are really open about it, they want to talk and understand. I haven’t had that feeling back in the European art world.&nbsp;There’s a train of thought also with the book you’re reading (The Dream of the Earth by Thomas Berry). Every big culture—if we broke it into pieces, not just the Western world but the whole world—every culture has its own “whole world,” or what was the word he [Thomas Berry] was talking about there?&nbsp;Alexa: The collective story?Julius: Yeah, and for me it’s changing. It’s a story that’s changing all the time. In the Western world, the collective story is so different it takes over people. There’s a different train of thought when you go to an art gallery for example. It feels like that to me. It’s different here in Oaxaca. I can’t speak from the Mexican perspective, but in Oaxaca I’ve had warmth here. It feels like that to me, more warmth.Alexa: I’m wondering in your next works or art forms; is there something you feel called to explore next or further?Julius: Yes, there is. I want to make art—I want to make a documentary about the adoption thing. Because I haven’t been in Colombia since the adoption. But I guess that work is just going to be for me. So I will make an art series or something about it. But it will be so personal I might never show it to anyone. But I’m going to make one of those. And after that I don’t know. I’m really interested in cultural research, so I might do something around that. I love researching things with cameras, so maybe I’ll do something closer to research but I haven’t decided yet. But after Black Book is done, I will continue in the realm of dreams because it’s so wide. The theme is so wide, there’s so much to learn about it, and there’s a lot of other things you can do. For example, performance or paintings. I guess the next thing for me might be a performance.&nbsp;Alexa: Yeah, I remember you saying in the text that dreams are kind of like acts or plays.&nbsp;Julius: Yeah, they are, for me at least. I can’t speak for anybody else. But for me they are like that. And every big dream I’ve had, it’s a play. It has a start, a middle, and some kind of an ending. It feels like it has drama. It’s weird, but it’s the way.&nbsp; <figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > <a data-sqsp-image-classic-block-image-link class=" sqs-block-image-link " href="https://www.juliustoyryla.com" > Alexa: That would be amazing to see your interpretation of that. I was wondering if you were to tell somebody that has experienced trauma from adoption, what would you tell them? What would be helpful to heal from that?Julius: Well, there’s so much rejection in the human soul. If something bad happens, you reject it for some reason. And that is not the answer for me. The answer has been going to the thing. You go towards it, and sword fight it in a way. And you will be victorious if you do that. It’s just a thought. And you are you, you can win your thoughts and always think in another way. And also compassion. You have to be compassionate to the thing, and also to yourself. Because only adopted people know how it feels to be adopted.&nbsp;For me it doesn’t matter why you were adopted. It’s a story. But in the end it doesn’t matter. I was lucky because I had really good parents. My family is really loving. But I want to say, you’re not alone. Don’t be too afraid of that thing, because I was so alone in the way that nobody could understand how it felt. But there’s compassionate people in the world, and I’m one of them, so you’re not alone. And art making is a good way of dealing with anxiety and problems.&nbsp; <figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > <a data-sqsp-image-classic-block-image-link class=" sqs-block-image-link " href="https://www.juliustoyryla.com" > *“Whether or not the subject is already dead, every photograph is this catastrophe.”—Roland Barthes / Camera Lucida: Reflections on Photography&nbsp;/ Quote referenced by Julius TöyryläEyes Wide is supported by members around the world Photography by Julius TöyryläTheme music by Kymani ThomasAudio Editing and Mixing by RD StudioTranscription by Kymani ThomasTo see your organization's name here and hear it on the audio story, ask about becoming a sponsor

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<figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > Elliott Rae Stone—Gender Expression as Art Hosted by Alexa Ashley Listen above, on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Transcript:Alexa Ashley: This is Alexa Ashley with Eyes Wide. In January of 2020, I got to sit down with makeup artist, model, and designer, Elliott Rae Stone, to talk about technicality and gender expression as art.Elliott Ray Stone: I was a very curious child. I did ask a lot of questions and I still do ask a lot of questions. I think then I just didn't know what questions to ask. I would ask questions and not really be able to get any answers because nobody really knew how to answer the questions that I was asking, because they were very nonspecific.They weren't questions that necessarily had answers. And so now I know how to ask a question. I do remember I was one of those kids, I'd go play outside and make mud pies and we had animals. And so we would run around with our dogs and do sports, that's what I remember from being a kid.As I got into being probably like 10 and 11, my mom was actually a Creative Memories—I forget what they're called—but the ones who sell the supplies for scrapbooking. So I actually really got into scrapbooking for a while because my mom had all the supplies and I was like, I want to do that.It's fun shapes and colors and pictures. And I got to use little cutters and stamps and stickers. And I do remember my grandma used to host card-making parties where you would do embossing and you get to play with glitter and felt tip pens. I do remember being interested in wanting to participate in a lot of that, but I wasn't necessarily ever given the opportunity to participate because it was all the adults. I didn't start doing art until closer to middle school, high school. I was president of the tech club at school. And I was on the board of directors for the art club in high school. But when I was really, really young, it was all about sports and learning.So I was playing soccer and I was doing school and AP classes and extracurriculars and it wasn't until I got to college that I actually started exploring the creative side of my brain. Because I started school as a chemistry major, anticipating doing science the rest of my life. <figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > And I didn't know what kind of science I just knew that was what I was going to go to school for. And then after a year I was like, I just don't love it. I don't feel passion for it. I don't really want to do it anymore. And so I actually changed my major without telling my family. I was working at school over the summer and I was just thinking a lot about what I liked about the science program and what I didn't, and it ultimately came down to, I didn't love the math, I didn't love the actual science. I loved the visual reality of science. So when we were doing the reactions and we got to make things change color in the test tubes by adding different chemicals or when we got to light something on fire and it grew, or it had a blue flame or a purple flame, like that's what I loved. And then I realized that design was something that kind of mixed the technical with the art. So it took me a couple of tries to get there. First I thought maybe I'll do English or maybe I'll do writing. I didn't have any clue. So I was just taking my common core curriculum.And then I think I took, I want to say it was either an art history class or like a sculpture class. And once I took that class, I was like, this is what I want to do. I like the technicality and I like the art. Then I realized that a lot of the technical things that I was doing as a kid were artistic.It just didn't feel like it because of the mentality that I had had, because when I was president of the tech club, I was doing web design. We were learning coding and so I was doing a lot with color and color theory and yes, I was doing it in a programming language, but I was creating art essentially.And we would do little video games in flash or like it was basically a multimedia course. So we would do little things here and there. And I was in a pottery class. So it shouldn't have been a surprise to my family because half of my family are artists.My mom's side of the family, her sister's husband is a designer and a 3d artist. Her brother is a graphic designer. My dad's mom is a painter. It's not too far off from the rest of my family. It's just that wasn't a part of our culture growing up because my dad was in technology. So that's like what we assumed we all were going to do.And then now as an adult, I realize how much more art can be. So drag is a crazy art form. And so, I've done drag a couple of times just to kind of have fun with expression and honestly gender is art. And so even experimenting with how I present in gender has been really awesome to explore in the concept of art and what I can do with clothing and fashion and makeup and hair. <figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > I feel like honestly art can be anything that elicits a reaction out of another person. There's so much, I've been watching Glow Up on Netflix, which is a makeup artistry show. And one of the things that they talk about is, it makes us have different opinions, it's art, because it makes us have different opinions about it.And so I thought that was really cool. Gender and the exploration of gender has been around since the dawn of time. There have always been people who don't feel like they fit into the construct of gender. And that's proven with Native American two-spirit people, they literally have a word for it.And that was before colonizers came over and created the Americas. So I definitely do get a lot of heteronormative CIS people who are shocked or confused. And I think it's just because they don't necessarily understand the scope. They don't understand that kind of the lack of a binary.That's all they know life is, like black and white, man and woman, fire and ice. There's two opposite and opposing things. They don't realize it's on a spectrum and there's a lot in the middle too, and a lot on either side. So drag is an expression of hyper-femininity, and that's kind of why drag exists.This was an exploration of that. And then you have drag kings who are the opposite side of the spectrum, which is an exploration of hyper-masculinity. But then you also have men and women, and then you have kind of everything in between where as an assigned male at birth who leans towards a lot of traditionally more feminine things, I never fit into one or the other.I was always kind of somewhere in the middle. So the fact that I've been able to explore that and kind of interact with people in that way has been a lot, there've been definitely some instances where I'm afraid and then there are some instances where I feel really free.Now it's gotten to the point of kind of just being comfortable. So if I'm going out and I haven't shaved and I'm not wearing makeup but I want to wear a pair of heels and a dress, I don't feel weird because I used to feel like I had to present as feminine or masculine. Like those are the only two options, but surrounding myself with people who kind of break those norms has kind of allowed me to be comfortable and expressing that.So now I'm like, I kind of just do whatever the fuck I want. If I feel super feminine one day with my body, but not my face. I'm fine with that. If I want to just be scrubbing it in like a pair of sweats and a sweatshirt, but go full glam, I'll do that too. I think honestly, I kind of get joy now out of eliciting a reaction from people in whatever way it is, whether it's confused or excited or angry, because it starts a dialogue, it starts a conversation about it. I'm very passionate about helping people understand the dynamic of gender. When I'm wearing four-inch stilettos— because I'm already 6 feet tall—so when I wear stilettos I'm 6,4.So I'm this very, very tall, thin person walking around in the city and people are like, who's that? What's going on? Is something happening? But more so than anything, I think the biggest joy I experience when I present as more feminine or as confusing to people, is little kids.My favorite thing is when little kids come up and ask me, like, “are you a boy or a girl?” And I can have that conversation and say, neither, I don't feel one way or the other, or when a kid will ask their parents, and then it forces that parent to have that conversation. I've gotten to overhear some really, really nice conversations.There's been some that aren't so nice, but I've gotten to kind of hear the goodness of people through how parents explain to their kids the openness of gender. There was one conversation in particular. I was at work and I was wearing a dress and heels and makeup and this little kid asked their parent what gender I was essentially.And then the parent was like, why don't you go ask? So then this little kid came over to me and was like, “are you a boy or a girl?” And I told them, “both or neither, I don't necessarily feel one way or the other.” And then they went back to their parent and asked, “what does that mean?”And so then the parent was able to explain that sometimes people don't feel like a boy or a girl and they kind of just like to look how they want to look. And I was like, that's so wholesome. And I love that they did that and took the time to educate their kid, instead of just being prejudiced or close-minded about it.I think it helps that I'm a really nice person too. So I never get upset at people. And so if people are rude or don't know. Like when people ask my pronouns, I'm like, whatever you want. Literally I don't care. I respond to any of them. And it honestly depends on how I feel at the time.So some days I do feel like I'm more gender neutral. And so then I'm like, oh, they them works. Or like some days I do feel more masculine. So I'm like, oh, he him. And then other days I'm presenting very feminine in those times I'm usually like she, or they works just as well. So people are always very appreciative that I don't care. But it took a long time to get there. I mean, I would say the last two to three years have probably been the most explorative of&nbsp; gender and identity and have brought me to the point where I don't care. Because before that I was very aware and that was one of my buttons that people would push on purpose and I'm like, whatever.I don't know that it was necessarily a trigger. I think just for so long, I felt like I had to pretend to be something that I wasn't. That anytime I wasn't identified in the way that I was trying to present, I got upset and was basically like, “How do I fix that? How do I make it seem like I am more masculine and identify as he,” so I shaved my head or would wear short buzz cuts or very short hairstyles.And I would wear baggy jeans and boots instead of well-fitting clothing. I have always had a higher voice and that's one of the things I haven't ever been able to change. And so after college, when I moved to Seattle, to the Hill(Capitol Hill), instead of Queen Anne, was when I kind of finally started meeting people who didn't necessarily identify one way or the other.And it allowed me to explore comfortably because I knew that they were respectful and that they were a part of that community. It was more so just a shift in my thought process, but it had to happen. And so it happened and it's great. I guess I did explore it a little bit as a kid, but in secret. <figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > I would always try on my mom's heels, when she wasn't there, if she had any, I don't actually remember that she had any, but I would try on her flats, like the ballet flats that have the cute little accessories. Or I would always sneak in her makeup bag and put lipstick on or mascara or something, but there wasn't a space to explore it because my family was very masculine growing up.It's all guys except for my mom. So I have two brothers and my dad. And so we would do hunting and fishing and dirt biking and outdoors and cars. It's really funny sometimes. And sometimes I honestly do it on purpose, but sometimes I will look super feminine and then I will participate in really masculine activities just to like fuck with people.Because a lot of people don't know I helped my parents build our house. So I know how to do carpentry and electrical work and painting and siding and scaffolding. I know how to fix cars. I can change the oil, I can do engine work. I can pop the lights out and do like replacements on headlights and taillights and detailing. And I used to ride motorcycles. So when people talk about street bikes or dirt biking, I can actually participate in conversation. So I'm sitting there, in a dress and stilettos and a red lipstick, and I'm talking about things like, how to fix the car engine, or what to do if your radiator's overheating.And people are like, wait, what? You know how to do what? And then there are other times where I'll be sitting somewhere in like a trench coat and I've got my glasses on, a beanie and I look very like, not broey, but like very hipster, very Seattle. And I'm talking about doing ornate calligraphy or baking or traditionally more feminine activities.Like how I love to clean, because it's a stress reliever and I'm like, really like, what? So that's always fun. I was born in Florida, but my family moved here when I was two. So I just consider born and raised in Maple Valley (Washington) basically. It was fine. I mean, it's a small town, it was a small town when I was growing up. Now it's like started booming.So there's a lot of new developments and a lot more people, there's a lot of churches, so it's very conservative and very gossipy. There's a lot of like, “this is what's happening with who and like why and how,” and information I don't need to know, which is kind of why I don't really do holidays at home anymore.I don't necessarily need to hear about why someone's getting divorced or the fact that someone left so-and-so and now they're going to court over it. It's not interesting to me because I don't need to know the drama of other people's lives, but that's kind of what's interesting to people because there's not really anything else to do.So when I was growing up doing those activities, like dirt biking and being on sports teams and doing extracurriculars, it made sense because it gave me something to do that wasn't just sitting around, talking about other people. Because I don't think that's something that people really need to do unless it's in a wholesome and uplifting way, like talking about the goodness of other people.I think if people made that shift in mentality, it would be a nicer world. Honestly, Maple Valley was very, it's what it needed to be for that period of my life. I will say, I don't know necessarily that there is destiny or I don't know that our lives are pre-planned. I don't know that there's like an entity out there who says like, this is how your life's going to go and then gives us free will.And then we really don't have free will because it's supposed to go a certain way anyways. But I do believe that things happen for a reason. And there is a time and a place for things to happen. And I do think about this a lot. I can see pivotal moments in my life where had things gone differently, I would not be where I am right now. Growing up in Maple Valley, I probably never would have chosen to go to SPU if I didn't live in Maple Valley because it was close enough to home that I could still visit. And it aligned with my parents' belief systems and then had I never chosen SPU, I wouldn't have ever chosen to settle inside Seattle and Capitol Hill. And if I had never come to Capitol Hill, I would have never grown into my true self and experimented with gender and expression and made the friends that I have, and kind of started to think more critically about life in general and come up to my own conclusions.Had I not gone to Maple Valley as weird as it sounds, I probably just would have been one of those people who just becomes really unhappy with the world and the way the world works and gotten stuck in a small town. I feel like it's what would have happened.I would have been one of those people that never leaves home. Gets married at like 22 and has some kids. And not that that's bad. I do have some friends who are in that boat right now, but they're also pursuing their passions. I don't know that I would've ever figured out my passions had I not left Maple Valley. So it was nice to be there so I could leave. I mean, it was okay, but had I grown up in the Midwest, The colleges I would have chosen would have probably been colleges that were somewhat isolated. Like Western, it's in Bellingham, it's a very small city.It's kind of out of the way. As great as that sounds now, had I done that for college, I feel like I never would've had any experiences that led me to question my life and my personality and my mentality and my thought processes. But because I was at SPU and I was in the city, I feel like I was exposed to a lot more.And by being exposed to a lot more, I was able to learn a little bit more. And then it caused me to want to learn even more. I think that's honestly, my biggest passion in life is learning.&nbsp; Whatever it is, whether it's going back to school or teaching myself how to do something.I know how to do a lot of things just because I've taught myself how to do them because I like to learn. So had I gone somewhere else or had I grown up in a small town. I don't know that I ever would have figured that out. And so I feel like I would have just settled for staying stuck wherever I was. <figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > I want this year to be a year of growth—Whether that's in my relationships and in my friendships or in my job or in all of the above. It's just to kind of push myself to do more than just be content in my space. Cause that's where I was a lot in 2019. And I was like, no, I need to do more.People are telling me all the time I need to do more because they see my capabilities and they're like, no, you need to do more. So that's my goal this year is just do more. I mean my best friend, Lisa, she lives in Atlanta right now. So I want to try to make a trip down to her this year.She was doing pottery when she was in Seattle. So she gave me the names of the studios that she went to so that I could do a little bit of investigation there and take some classes and kind of putting my feelers out there with new jobs and hopefully this one comes to fruition. And then that would introduce me to kind of a new lifestyle.Essentially. I've never worked a nine to five. Ever. So working that consistent Monday to Friday schedule and having weekends off, I feel like it's going to open a lot of potential doors for me in terms of things I can say yes to, like, I was asked to walk in a fashion show in February and doing makeup.I get a lot of those opportunities that I have to miss because it's always on the weekends and I work the weekends. So I think part of the saying yes to new opportunities is also saying, yes to kind of past opportunities. So I'm not going to start saying no to the people that I have in certain circles, just because I'm in a new circle.I want to make time and space for them and say yes to them too. So I think it's just a funny little time management shift because you're in a new space, but you still need to say yes to the other spaces that you were in.&nbsp;It's really funny, but I will look up karaoke tracks on YouTube and just put them on repeat and sing along to them while I'm getting ready or if it's a song I want to try out, I'll record myself doing it and then listen to it and then delete it.I don't know that I love to hear myself recorded, but when everybody else is drunk, they don't really care. So I sound great to everybody. The first couple of times it was really nerve-wracking because I don't really drink a lot. So when I go out and do karaoke, I'm pretty much sober, but that's one of those things I love, I love to do it.So I was like, no, I'm going to do it. I'm going to go every week. It's going to be my thing. So my friend, Alex—she's my cheerleader—she's like, “I'll go with you, but I'm not going to sing.” I was like, “That's fine. I'll sing. It's fine.” I usually try to do different ones. A comfortable song that I sing all the time is by Lauv, his song “I Like Me Better” because It doesn't really require a lot of effort to sing it. And so it's easy to warm up with. But a friend of mine sang Lady Gaga’s “You and I,” and ever since then, I was like, I want to sing that. And so occasionally I'll bring that out of the woodwork.I always like to surprise people by going old school and doing like Frank Sinatra, because my voice can go deeper. My typical range is in the tenor realm. But then when I sing Frank Sinatra, my voice drops down a little bit lower and everybody's like, “what is going on?”If I were to die tomorrow and I wanted to be known for something, I feel I would want to be known for my kindness. I don't know that I've ever hated a person. I don't know that I've ever vehemently felt negative emotions towards anyone. Towards corporate structures—Yes. But that's just because that's a little bit too much. I have a lot of acquaintances and I have a lot of friends. And I always hope to be a person that people can feel comfortable coming to because of my kindness and because of my intention with people. I don't ever want people to feel like they’re other than, or not a part of. And so in my friend circles, I always try to make sure people feel included and welcomed, and that it's a safe space to be in, which has done good things and bad things in my life because I do also end up learning a lot of information that I don't necessarily want to, or need to know about other people.But I also am very grateful that people are comfortable sharing those things with me. So I think I would want to be remembered for my kindness and for being known as an empathetic person, like kindness and empathy.&nbsp; Eyes Wide is supported by members all over the world. Find out more.Photography by Alexa AshleyTheme music by Kymani ThomasHosted by Alexa AshleyAudio Editing by Mo Isu

<figure class=" sqs-block-image-figure intrinsic " > Dyesha_Belhumeur_Eyes_Wide_Smaller.m4a Listen above, on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Transcript:ALEXA ASHLEY: This is Alexa Ashley with Eyes Wide. In this conversation, I get to sit down with Dyesha Belhumeur to talk about her experience growing up as a gay black woman in America, and how she's found confidence in her identity, despite societal barriers and is working to give others the same. Dyesha is a graduate from the University Of Washington's foster school of business, and is the founder of Undefined, a clothing line designed to encourage the black community, people of color, members of the LGBTQ community and women to live outside of the box society has placed them in and empower those who wear it to express the most important aspects of their identity, culture, and beliefs. ALEXA ASHLEY: What was it like growing up as Dyesha Belhumeur?DYESHA BELHUMEUR: Well, I was born in Harlan, Oregon to a single parent. And shortly after that, we moved to Federal Way, Washington, where I lived for 13 years. I went to Federal Way High School which is one of the most diverse public school systems in the nation. So I was always a part of this melting pot culture and then I went on to college at the University Of Washington and went for a business degree with the foster school of business.The feel of growing up for me, it was always very family-oriented. I grew up with actually a lot of my cousins, very close cousins that were more like my brothers growing up and then childhood friends that I grew up with became close to me, close enough for me to call them my cousins.As much as I liked to play and enjoy the same things that other children did, I also had to grow up a lot faster. Being the child of a single parent and being an African-American woman, all of those just meant that I had to grow up a lot faster than a lot of my other counterparts.Things like learning how to take care of yourself as soon as you get off from school, being able to walk yourself home from the bus stop knowing that you have to do your homework and be able to cook yourself a snack and do all those things before you're able to go outside, which could mean that you're doing all those things before your mom even gets home. Learning how to prep dinner at a young age that it's easier for your mom to be able to make dinner when she comes home. Just learning how to take a lot more of an active role in the household at a very young age. Growing up as Dyesha was, I think it was fun, but it was also knowing that you had to have a lot more of an adult-like life.So when I was younger, being raised by my mom, she really didn't raise me trying to teach me the differences of black and white. I wasn't raised automatically from kindergarten up just knowing that I was different because of the color of my skin.And so the realizing point that I noticed, like, okay, I'm different was that point when I actually looked up the definitions of white and black and in the dictionary. And part of that was because it was black history month at my school and like every other elementary school you learn about the Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa parks. Being an African American child, I think a lot of teachers don't really realize that maybe as a child, you don't really realize that you're African-American. And so there came a point where it was kind of like them asking, like, “what was your take? How do you think it would feel to be this color during that time?” And I felt like they kind of had a habit of asking people of color that question rather than just anybody and everybody, because at that age you really don't know. I kind of looked at it like, why are you asking me this question? You know, why am I supposed to know the answer to that question?And so I went home, and I had this conversation with my mom about what is black, what is white? What do these things actually mean? And what does it mean for me to be black? And that's when I actually looked that up in the dictionary and I actually still own that dictionary to this day, the Webster's dictionary.I can remember what my room looked like when I looked it up. I can remember exactly where I was sitting when I looked at that in the dictionary. And at that age as a child, I think that really, I just knew what I processed at that time...it was one, I was different and two, that my difference was looked down upon. It wasn't something that was good and so from that point, that's how I started to move through life was just understanding that I'm looked down upon generally, because I have this color skin because I am labeled as a black person—as being black. And so knowing that, it just changed the way that I navigated through the world.I think it almost kind of like removed my innocence as a child because it's like, as a child, you have an innocent happiness about you and I think that it kind of just removed that innocence and it was like, at that point I had to be automatically conscious of everything I did.Because I had to understand what story that told to other people out in the public eye. I think really from that point it's almost like in my mind, there was just a dichotomy, you know, like there were only two worlds. There was the white world, there was the black world.And if you didn't fall into the white world, you automatically fell into the black world. If you didn't fall into the black world, you automatically fell into the white world. So there was no way to kind of straddle in between. So was that just kind of the lens that I looked at everything through.So for me, everything was either a black or white issue at that point. So I looked at economics, like how much money do you have? At least what does it look like you have based on your appearance, you know? And so I started to kind of figure out, okay, generally, you know, those who are labeled as white and dress, maybe a little bit better, have less hand-me-downs, have cleaner clothes, but then those who are black, maybe not so much, you know?And so I think I just started to move through life, really labeling things as, if it was white, it meant this. And if it was black, it meant this. And then as I got older, I started to see those things in education. You see white school districts versus African-American or people of color or minority school districts, and you see how things are treated differently.You see the differences and the amount of money that's granted to each of those schools. You see differences in the conditions of their gyms, in the conditions of their schools, in the people that actually go to those schools. So I think from that point, it automatically changed the way that I was even able to view the world. So I automatically started looking at everything through the lens: what is black and what is white?ALEXA ASHLEY: It seems like you move fast when you want to do something like start Undefined. Where does your drive come?DYESHA BELHUMEUR: I think for me, really it was my mom. I saw the way that my mom struggled being a single parent, getting no help from what should have been my father.And you know that caused her to have to drop out of college cause she got pregnant with me while being in college. And I saw just the way that all of that really just affected her, going forward, affected her ability to raise me. It affected her ability to be as present as she would have liked to be in my life.Because you have to sacrifice making money or being a whole part of your child's life when you're a single parent, putting food on the table or being present at a basketball game. So you've got those two weights. And so I think that really what it came down to was it's like, I'm not doing this really for myself, I'm doing it for my mom. I'm doing it so that when she hits 60 years old, she's not worried...when I was told growing up that I should be retired by 65 years old. And realistically, that's just not a retiring age now.And so really my drive came from feeling like I needed to be that counterpart for my mom because she didn't have that. So I think for other people who are looking for a drive it's really just finding your why, like, why is it that you get up and do what you do every morning? Because I think if it's just to make money, that's not going to be a big enough reason why, and you're never going to really have the drive to really do what you want to do.Your reason has to go a lot beyond that. For my reason, it's to make sure that my mom is taken care of and she doesn't have to want. It's to make sure that my grandma's able to go comfortably because at the age that she's at, it's only a matter of time before she reaches that point.And there's so many things that she still hasn't seen as an 80-year-old African American woman who went through the Civil Rights Movement who actually fought in a court of law for her equal rights to be able to live in an apartment complex when a white man refused to rent to her and my grandfather, who was white...I have a purpose that's a lot bigger than me. I feel like I'm striving also, not just to put myself into a position of success, but also to help bring other people who are African-American, who are people of color, who are LGBTQ, who are from marginalized minority communities and help bring them over the fence so that they can do the same thing.Because if we don't have enough of us who are willing to help each other get a leg up then we're going to continue to just struggle as whole groups. Throughout the rest of our lives. So I think it's really just about finding a why and finding a reason or a purpose that's bigger than yourself.ALEXA ASHLEY: That's awesome. So it's like...on the practical side...a need for your family and your mom, and then the other side, it's like this whole people group that has been historically marginalized. And especially members of the LGBTQ community and people of color and that combination and lifting them up.DYESHA BELHUMEUR: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I mean, when I think about just the things that those people of color African-Americans, Indians or native Americans, Mexicans, LGBTQ, like all the things that they've had to go through and struggle just to have basic human rights that are aligned with those who wrote the constitution is, I mean, that's really why I do it, you know?And I see the ways that those affect families that are similar to mine from the person's complex to lack of education, to just really feeling like there's no way for you to win and trying to find a way to make it. I see all those trends on a daily basis. I see the way that those affect people in my family.I see the ways those affect people in my community. And I feel like if there's not people like me who are willing to kind of be the staple of the community or lead the charge, then we're always going to continue to remain in that position. So, I mean, that's why I do it because I feel like there's other people who need to be able to look and see somebody that looks like them doing what they've always wished to do. And until they see that, they're not really gonna feel like that's something that's achievable.ALEXA ASHLEY: You said before, and it's a feeling that I get as well, that you're confident in your identity as a gay woman of color. And for somebody else who is maybe younger or just hasn't gotten to that point yet, what would you tell them?DYESHA BELHUMEUR: I think, honestly, it really comes down to not listening to other people's opinions or yourself and allowing you to discover who you are. If I would've allowed myself to, because I mean, people have said lots of things about me. I mean, from when I was in middle school, before I even knew that I was a gay woman. I've had people tell me, I looked like a man or I talk like a man or I've had a nickname when I was in middle school, I had the nickname “Dykeysha,” because it's dyke, as meaning you’re gay. And at that age, I don't know that I'm gay...you know, and so if I would have allowed all of those things to shape me or to grasp a hold of my mental, then I think that I would be a completely different person.I would probably be very shelled off. I would not be very comfortable in my own skin because society doesn't allow you to be comfortable. Society tells you that something's wrong with you. Society tells you that you shouldn't be this way and not that way and so I think primarily for me, one of the things that really helped was just the support of the people that were around me.The people that I considered to be my family, that I really considered to be my close friends, having those people support me, made it so I didn't really care what the stranger walking down the street said as they walked past me or what the other person on the other team said as they were playing a basketball game against me, as long as I was accepted and welcomed by those that were closest to me. It made me a lot more comfortable and I think that also I took that in stride.It wasn't me having to be comfortable with being a black gay woman all at once. It was first, I had to be comfortable with being black. Then I had to be comfortable with being a woman and then I had to be comfortable with being gay. And so you go through these different stages of comfortability and I think it's hard to be able to, like, if you're somebody who's just grappling with all three, it's hard.There's so many intersectionalities that are really there, and there's no book of how to deal with that, you know? And so I think it just comes down to really segmenting it into pieces that you're able to deal with. At one time, you know, for me, it was first dealing with my racial identity because I felt like that was really most pertinent to who I am.Then it was dealing with my identity as a woman, because that's what I first understood. And then it was dealing with my identity as being gay, as I became older and fully understood that that's what I was. But until I came to the realization that that's who I am, I wasn't able to start being comfortable.And I think that until you really know who you are, you're not really able to be a hundred percent comfortable in your own skin.ALEXA ASHLEY: So to somebody that doesn't have that support group or people that accept them for the way they are, would you say find that community?DYESHA BELHUMEUR: Find that community or figure out why it is that they don't accept you because I can tell you I wasn't right away accepted...my mother and I, we had a falling out to where it almost rocked our relationship. Our relationship was almost tarnished because of the fact that I was gay and she didn't understand. The problem was, you know, it was coming off as she was mad at the fact that I was gay and she didn't want to have a gay daughter, but really what it was at the root, she just didn't understand what it was to be gay.She didn’t understand that being gay doesn't necessarily mean that you want to be a boy or that you need to change your sexuality, which there are some people who do feel like that, which is a whole other group. But you know, it just means that I like women. I see myself with a woman and that is what I am attracted to.And it really just took me and her having to have conversations, her having to have conversations with people who are her friends who are in her same age group. Having to tell her their understandings and how they grappled with it and what they learned. And so it really just comes to an educational process.I think it's very easy for people to get frustrated and shut down, especially when it comes to things that they don't know or things that they're unfamiliar with. And I think that at that point, it's just about how do I create a conversation? Because if it's a family member for instance...that's somebody who you would probably care for...somebody who cares for you just as much.And I think that at that point, it's not allowing the frustration of “you're not understanding who I am” or “you won't accept me for who I am.” I think it's more understanding, well, why are they having trouble accepting and start from there and kind of build your way up because you want to be accepted.And I think it's just figuring out how do we go about doing that to where I'm not putting myself at odds. But at the same time, I'm helping to educate you and help you understand so that we can be on this level of acceptance.ALEXA ASHLEY: You inspire me, who or what is inspiring you lately?DYESHA BELHUMEUR: I think really my entire life, my main inspiration has always been my mom. Really, that's why I do everything. You know, I could have cared less to go to college. I could have cared less to get an education. I could've cared less to get a degree. I could care less to work in the finance world, you know? But I do it for her. I do it because I feel like I've been given a chance or an opportunity that she never had. And so being able to capitalize on that opportunity for the both of us I feel like is something that we need.And also my grandfather, he passed away when I was in high school. And I just really saw how caring he was for everybody that was around him. He doesn't have to know you, I think that he was more of like a feeler, he could feel people who were going through difficult times. He could feel people who maybe had issues, he could feel people who just maybe needed to just be loved out a little bit. And so I think that I looked to my mom as inspiration for my drive, and I looked at my grandfather as inspiration for character. And those two together kind of make me who I am I feel like.ALEXA ASHLEY: Could you talk more about the logo that you have on your clothes and what it symbolizes?DYESHA BELHUMEUR: So the unity fist was first seen as like the primary symbol for black power. It became a primary symbol for the black power movement and it's still kind of seen as that to this day, but also today it's kind of taken a turn in that it's seen a lot more as a symbol of unity, so unification, solidarity.And so I kind of did a play on both, in using the fist. The shackle—it's a broken shackle actually and it goes a little bit with the fist. The idea behind it is through the solidarity of marginalized groups— marginalized people, people of color—that that's really the only way that we're going to break the shackles, that we're going to be able to dismantle structures and basically systems of racism that continue to hold us back.You know, we're not going to be able to do it one off. We're not really going to be able to do it, I don't see, as individual groups—it's going to take the solidarity of every marginalized group. Mexicans coming together. African-Americans and Africans coming together. Native Americans coming together. Filipinos, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans. I mean, literally every minority group that you can think of. LGBTQ, trans, like every group that you can think of, it's going to take the solidarity and the unification of all of those marginalized groups speaking up and demanding for equal rights for equal treatment and for humane treatment.I think that we've reached a point where a lot of ill treatment of people in these groups has been normalized. I mean, how many times do you scroll up and down social media and you see transgender or gay men or women who have been attacked solely because of their sexuality or how many times do you see African-Americans or Africans who have been killed by police officers? In the line of duty. These are things that we've seen so often now that they're just normalized, you know. We can see it on the TV and we can flip the channel, we can see it on social media and we can scroll right past it because it's something that we're so used to seeing now.The only way that we're going to break that and really call attention to what is really happening is through the solidarity of all of these groups. And I think that that's where the crown comes in—really we're only going to get to see our true potential in being an active group. In being an active group. In being a group that exercises activism—that's really the only way that we're going to see change, I think, in this system. And until we start to do that, we're going to continue to see black bodies on the five o'clock news. And until we decide to take a stand, it's going to continue to be normal in culture.So really the reason—the motivation and the meaning—behind that logo is through solidarity and unification of marginalized groups, that's the only way that we're going to see our true potential in this country. African Americans and Africans, we are said to come from a land of kings and queens. That was also a play that was added on to the logo.ALEXA ASHLEY: I see your line and the graphics as reminders of your power. Do you feel that?DYESHA BELHUMEUR: I think so, these are very bold pieces. You have to be a bold person to walk around with a power fist or something that's traditionally and generally understood as a black power fist on your chest. It's a very strong symbol and it commands attention and you not only have to be a strong individual, but you've also got to be very thick-skinned. I can't tell you how many crazy looks I've gotten when I've worn my KXP bomber or when I've worn my shirt that says legalize blackness, and I've had people be like, “what do you mean legalize blackness? Like what does that even mean?”You really have to be cut out for this clothing. It is a reminder of your strength and of your power. It's a reminder that you choose what you are defined by. You don't have to be defined by stereotypes. You don't have to be defined by what society says is black, or what society says is white, or what society says is gay. You get to define that. And that's really what Undefined is about—it’s really turning stereotypes on their heels and allowing the individual to define what they feel are the most important or pertinent aspects of their identity and their culture and what makes them, them.ALEXA ASHLEY: It's almost like it's a reminder and a call to action. Even if you don't feel ready, if you wear it, you have to be ready.DYESHA BELHUMEUR: Yeah, for sure. And I think it's almost a call to action to wake up, you know, right now I feel like a lot of us are asleep. By walking through and just enduring the system, we're perpetrating it—we're allowing it to continue—and until we wake up and we're like, okay, this is done. I'm going to do something about it today...I think that that's where we're at now. And that's the step that has to be taken. Image by Mia K VisualsVideography by Alexa AshleyAudio Editing and Mastering by TukyoVideo Editing by Tukyo