PODCAST · government
Gray Matters
by The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Administrative State
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Administrative State, at George Mason University’s Antonin Scalia Law School, supports research and debate on the modern administrative state, and the constitutional issues surrounding it. In this podcast, we’ll discuss some of the questions being debated around modern administration — some new questions, some timeless ones. And you can also get the audio from Gray Center events. Listen to all episodes of Gray Matters at Ricochet.com.
Episodes
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Suncor, Energy Policy, and the Future of Federalism (Notice & Comment May 2026 Conference Keynote Panel)
In the keynote panel from the Gray Center's May conference, moderator Adam White (Gray Center, AEI) speaks with Michael Williams (West Virginia Solicitor General) and Matt Leopold (Holland & Knight and former EPA General Counsel) about federal energy and environmental regulation, focusing on the...
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Who Can Sue Agencies Now, and For What? (Notice & Comment May 2026 Conference Panel 2)
In this panel discussion, moderator Aaron Nielson (University of Texas at Austin) speaks with Michael Buschbacher (Boyden Gray PLLC), Matt Gregory (Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP), and Stephanie Maloney (U.S. Chamber Litigation Center) about legal remedies and the state of strategic litigation…
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Jeff Starling and Reeve Bull on Using AI for Regulatory Reform in Oklahoma
Oklahoma Secretary of Energy and Environment Jeff Starling and the Fulcrum Foundation’s Reeve Bull discuss a new regulatory reform pilot project in Oklahoma. They share how Oklahoma is using AI to reform regulatory processes, reduce costs, and improve efficiency in government. Show notes: Reeve…
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NCLA's Mark Chenoweth on the State of Injunctive Relief
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss talk with NCLA President and Chief Legal Officer Mark Chenoweth about the evolving landscape of injunctions in the legal system, particularly in light of recent cases likeTrump v. CASA. They explore the definition and function of injunctions, the surge of nationwide...
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After the Slaughter, Here's What's Cooking
Adam White, Jace Lington, and Bennett Nuss analyze the recent Supreme Court decisions in Trump v. Slaughter and Trump v. Cook, focusing on the implications for executive power, administrative agency independence, and the future of administrative law. Adam White in SCOTUSblog Aditya Bamzai & Aaron...
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Quo Vadis—Federal Trade Commission? Chief Judge Susan Braden on the Future of the FTC after Slaughter
Adam White hosts Chief Judge Susan G. Braden (Ret.) to discuss the Supreme Court’s decision in Trump v. Slaughter, which held the Federal Trade Commission’s statutory independence unconstitutional and explicitly overruled Humphrey’s Executor. Braden argues the ruling will ripple across...
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What Are the Post-Chevron Courts Doing? (Notice & Comment May 2026 Conference Panel 1)
In this first panel from the Gray Center’s May conference, moderator Christopher J. Walker (University of Michigan) speaks with Megan Brown (Wiley Rein LLP), Roman Martinez (Latham & Watkins LLP), and Maria Monaghan (U.S. Chamber Litigation Center) about what courts are doing after Chevron’s...
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Judging After Loper Bright
In this final panel from the Gray Center’s October conference, moderator Aaron Nielsen (UT Austin) speaks with Judge Naomi Rao (D.C. Circuit) and Judge Steven Menashi (Second Circuit) about their role as judges after Loper Bright ended Chevron deference. Rao and Menashi describe their…
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Antitrust Policy in a Populist Era
The third panel discussion from the Gray Center’s Fall 2025 conference featuring: Noah Phillips, Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP Matt Stoller, American Economic Liberties Project Moderator: Senior Judge Douglas Ginsburg, D.C. Circuit
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Chad Squitieri on the President's Role in Lawmaking
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss chat with Chad Squitieri about his new paper, Congress in the Mouth of a Lawyer, which focuses on the president’s role in the lawmaking process. Prof. Squittieri discusses the constitutional role of the president in lawmaking, the importance of precise definitions of...
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2025 State of the Administrative State Conference Panel 2: The Federal Reserve and Presidential Power
The second panel discussion from the Gray Center's Fall 2025 conference featuring: Sarah Binder, Brookings Institution Jonathan Macey, Yale Law School Aaron Nielson, University of Texas Moderator: Adam White, C. Boyden Gray Center
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2025 State of the Administrative State Conference Panel 1: The State of the Administrative State
The first panel discussion from the Gray Center's Fall 2025 conference featuring: James Burnham, King Street Legal, and formerly of the U.S. Department of Government Efficiency Susan Dudley, former Administrator, White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs; Founder & Senior Scholar…
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Caroline Cecot on EPA Changes to Cost-Benefit Analysis
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss chat with Caroline Cecot about how recent changes in the EPA's analytical methods affect transparency and environmental protection. She discusses the evolution of cost-benefit analysis from a deregulatory tool to a framework for safeguarding health and the…
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What You Might not Have Already Heard About SCOTUS on Emergency Tariffs
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss chat with Adam White about the recent Supreme Court case, exploring the nuances of statutory interpretation, the major questions doctrine, and the implications for executive and legislative powers. The Gray Center team analyzes the court's opinions, historical…
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Patrick McLaughlin on PLF’s Nondelegation Project
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss chat with Patrick A. McLaughlin about The Nondelegation Project at the Pacific Legal Foundation, which analyzes compliance with the nondelegation doctrine using AI and machine learning. He highlights the significant number of regulatory restrictions in the CFR, the...
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Reeve Bull on Achieving Regulatory Reform in Virginia
Jace Lington chats with Reeve Bull about his experiences running Virginia’s Office of Regulatory Management. Bull discusses Virginia's recent regulatory reform efforts, highlighting the successful streamlining of regulations and the significant savings achieved. He emphasizes the importance of...
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Ronald J. Pestritto on Government by the Unelected
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss chat with Hillsdale College Professor Ronald J. Pestritto about his recent article tracing the rise of the administrative state and the revolution it wrought in the federal government. Pestritto explores the evolution of the administrative state, tracing its roots…
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Jeffrey Pojanowski on the "Faces of Formalism"
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss chat with Notre Dame Law Professor Jeffery Pojanowski about his forthcoming paper, “Faces of Formalism.” The paper explores the complexities of formalism in legal interpretation, discussing its two faces: authority and method. They delve into concrete examples, such…
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The Gray Center's 2025 Year in Review
Adam White, Jace Lington, and Bennett Nuss reflect on the significant regulatory developments of 2025, focusing on under-reported stories in the administrative state. They discuss the future of the Federal Reserve, the evolving relationships between public and private entities, the impact of...
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Eli Nachmany on the Stare Decisis Effects of Loper Bright 1
Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss discuss the implications of the Loper Bright decision on administrative law with guest Eli Nachmany. Eli’s forthcoming paper, “Deference Undisturbed,” examines the effects of theLoper Bright decision on prior cases decided under the Chevron framework. They discuss…
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Tanner Jones on How Vulcan Technologies Uses AI to Revolutionize Regulation
Jace Lington chats with Vulcan Technologies CEO Tanner Jones about how his company uses AI to help agencies, lawmakers, and businesses navigate the complex world of administrative law. They discuss whether AI systems will replace the industry and government consultants who usually guide people...
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John Vecchione on What the Constitution Says About Presidents and Tariffs
Bennett Nuss chats with New Civil Liberties Alliance Senior Litigation Counsel John Vecchione about the tariff case pending before the Supreme Court, Learning Resources, Inc. v. Trump. They discuss the main arguments about the extent of the president’s power over tariff policy and what the court...
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Christopher J. Walker on Congress and the Shifting Sands in Administrative Law
Jace Lington chats with University of Michigan Law Professor Christopher J. Walker about how to reinvigorate Congress in light of the changing administrative law landscape. They discuss his recent article, Congress and the Shifting Sands in Administrative Law, and his ideas about how Congress can...
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Daniel Kelly on Jarkesy and the End of Political Adjudication
Jace Lington chats with former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Daniel Kelly about what the Constitution says regarding who may exercise the judicial power. They discuss his new Gray Center policy brief, Jarkesy and the End of Political Adjudication, and his argument that the Supreme Court should…
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Beau Baumann on the History of Legislative Constitutionalism
Adam White and Jace Lington chat with Beau J. Baumann about his historical research into the Offices of Legislative Counsel. They discuss his forthcoming paper, Resurrecting the Trinity of Legislative Constitutionalism, and how Progressive reformers at the turn of the twentieth century built...
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Jennifer Mascott on the Appointments Clause and Special Counsel Jack Smith
Jace Lington chats with Jenn Mascott about Judge Aileen Cannon's decision to dismiss the classified documents case against Donald Trump. They discuss the Appointments Clause and the broader context of the debate surrounding the special counsel investigation of the former president. Notes: Judge...
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A Debate on The Right—Climate Lawsuits and Federalism: What Is the Role of State Tort Law?
This is a rebroadcast of a panel discussion from an event we co-hosted on May 15, 2024, with the Manhattan Institute and the Federalist Society. The panelists discuss whether state tort law is an appropriate tool for addressing climate change and the petition for certiorari in Sunoco LP, et al.…
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Federal Preemption and Environmental Regulation
This is a rebroadcast of the Gray Center's Federal Preemption and Environmental Regulation Webinar. We hosted this event on April 29, 2024, to discuss the issues involved in two pending cases where energy companies have asked the U.S. Supreme Court to review whether the Clean Air Act preempts...
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Paul Ray's Critique of the Expertise Rationale for Chevron Deference
Adam White and Jace Lington chat with former OIRA Administrator Paul J. Ray about his new paper, “Lover, Mystic, Bureaucrat, Judge: The Communication of Expertise and the Deference Doctrines.” In the paper, Mr. Ray critiques the expertise rationale for Chevron deference, arguing that agency...
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Equity and the Administrative State
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Study of the Administrative State and the Georgetown Journal of Law & Public Policy recently hosted a series of webinars ahead of a forthcoming symposium on Equity and the Administrative State. This episode of Gray Matters is a panel discussion from February 23,...
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Racial Classifications and Democratic Institutions
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Study of the Administrative State and the Georgetown Journal of Law & Public Policy recently hosted a series of webinars ahead of a forthcoming symposium on Equity and the Administrative State. This episode of Gray Matters is a panel discussion about the use of...
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Disney v. Democracy
Jace Lington chats with Scalia Law Professor Donald J. Kochan about Florida and Disney. They discuss his recent paper applying public choice theory to Florida’s Reedy Creek Improvement Act of 1967 and why the special treatment Disney received from the state is not a good model for state and local...
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Jed Shugerman's Major Questions About Emergency Powers and Standing
Adam White and Jace Lington chat with Law Professor Jed Handelsman Shugerman about lingering issues following the Supreme Court’s decision in the Biden v. Nebraska student loan case. They discuss a recent paper Shugerman presented at a Gray Center research roundtable, “Biden v. Nebraska: The New...
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Michael Ramsey’s Originalist Defense of the Major Questions Doctrine
Adam White and Jace Lington chat with Law Professor Michael D. Ramsey about how originalists can defend the major questions doctrine as a substantive canon of interpretation. He examines post-ratification court practice and other substantive canons designed by judges to minimize the harms of...
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Fixing Deference with Ronald A. Cass
Adam White and Jace Lington chat with Ronald A. Cass about the future of judicial deference to agency actions. They discuss Cass’s recent papers, “Fixing Deference: Delegation, Discretion, and Deference Under Separated Powers,” published by the New York University Journal of Law & Liberty, and...
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The Future of Financial Regulation Panel 2: What Should Regulate the Financial Regulators?
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Study of the Administrative State, the Mercatus Center, and the Journal of Law, Economics & Policy recently hosted a full-day symposium on the future of financial regulation. This episode of Gray Matters is a panel discussion featuring law professors Bridget C.E....
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The Future of Financial Regulation Panel 1: What is the Future of Financial Regulation?
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Study of the Administrative State, the Mercatus Center, and the Journal of Law, Economics & Policy recently hosted a full-day symposium on the future of financial regulation. This episode of Gray Matters is a panel discussion featuring the Hoover Institution's…
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The Future of Financial Regulation: Keynote Conversation with Jelena McWilliams
This episode of Gray Matters is the first of a three-part series and came out of a recent conference we hosted about the future of financial regulation. In this episode, Adam White speaks with former FDIC Chairman Jelena McWilliams about the current state of banking regulation. They discuss...
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Cicero Institute 2023 Report on State Regulatory Process Reform
Adam White and Jace Lington talk with Jonathan Wolfson about a new Cicero Institute report that ranks state regulatory systems based on their accountability, responsiveness, and transparency. They discuss cost-benefit analysis, regulatory sunset provisions, state-level centralized review modeled…
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Chevron on Trial Panel 4: The Future of Deference and Environmental Law
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Study of the Administrative State and the George Mason Law Review recently hosted a full-day symposium on the future of Chevron Deference. This episode of Gray Matters is a panel discussion featuring Professors Caroline Cecot, Emily Hammond, and E. Donald…
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Chevron on Trial Panel 3: Who Interprets Statutes?
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Study of the Administrative State and the George Mason Law Review recently hosted a full-day symposium on the future of Chevron Deference. This episode of Gray Matters is a panel discussion featuring Aditya Bamzai, Jonathan S. Masur, Eli Nachmany, Victoria F....
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Chevron on Trial Keynote: Paul J. Ray on the Expertise Rationale for Chevron Deference and a Fireside Chat with Jennifer Mascott
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Study of the Administrative State and the George Mason Law Review recently hosted a full-day symposium on the future of Chevron Deference. This episode of Gray Matters features a keynote address from Paul J. Ray, presenting his new paper about the expertise...
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Chevron on Trial Panel 2: Is Chevron Inevitable? What Should Replace It?
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Study of the Administrative State and the George Mason Law Review recently hosted a full-day symposium on the future of Chevron Deference. This episode of Gray Matters features a discussion among Law Professors Lisa Schultz Bressman, John F. Duffy, and Daniel E....
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Chevron on Trial Panel 1: Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Study of the Administrative State and the George Mason Law Review recently hosted a full-day symposium on the future of Chevron Deference. This episode of Gray Matters features a discussion among Law Professors Kent Barnett, Christopher J. Walker, and Thomas W....
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SCOTUS Preview Part 2 with Josh Chafetz and Noah Rosenblum
Adam White and Jace Lington talk with Josh Chafetz and Noah Rosenblum about some of the big administrative law cases pending before the U.S. Supreme Court. They discuss the state of the Court, where things might be headed next, and problems with conservative critiques of the Administrative State....
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SCOTUS Preview Part 1 with Richard Epstein and Allyson Ho
Adam White talks with NYU Law Professor Richard Epstein and Gibson Dunn Partner Allyson Ho about the upcoming Supreme Court term. They discuss the recent oral argument in the CFPB funding case, the major questions doctrine, how the court should approach revisiting Chevron deference in the…
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"Why Congress" with Philip Wallach
Jace Lington talks with AEI’s Philip Wallach about his new book, Why Congress. They discuss what makes Congress central to the American system of representative government and reasons we should look to Congress as the best place to resolve the most contentious issues of our day. Notes: Why...
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Rethinking Civil Service Management with James-Christian Blockwood
Adam White and Jace Lington talk with James-Christian Blockwood about his recent Government Executive article on civil service reform. They discuss current proposals to make more civil servants removable at will as well as ways to build a nonpartisan, professional federal workforce that protects...
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"You Report to Me" with David Bernhardt
Adam White and Jace Lington talk with former Secretary of the Interior David Bernhardt about his new book, You Report to Me: Accountability for the Failing Administrative State. In the book, Secretary Bernhardt offers his perspective on reforming the administrative state based on years of public...
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Scalia's Rise
Jace Lington talks with Adam White about the new book, Scalia: Rise to Greatness, 1936–1986, by James Rosen. They discuss Scalia’s early life and career, including his family, his faith, and his work in private practice and as a lawyer and teacher. Adam highly recommends the book for anyone...
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Administrative State, at George Mason University’s Antonin Scalia Law School, supports research and debate on the modern administrative state, and the constitutional issues surrounding it. In this podcast, we’ll discuss some of the questions being debated around modern administration — some new questions, some timeless ones. And you can also get the audio from Gray Center events.
Listen to all episodes of Gray Matters at Ricochet.com.
HOSTED BY
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Administrative State
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Gray Matters currently has 171 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is Gray Matters about?
The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Administrative State, at George Mason University’s Antonin Scalia Law School, supports research and debate on the modern administrative state, and the constitutional issues surrounding it. In this podcast, we’ll discuss some of the questions being debated around...
How often does Gray Matters release new episodes?
Gray Matters publishes regularly with 171 episodes available. Check the episode list for the typical release schedule.
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Gray Matters is created and hosted by The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Administrative State.
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