Holding The Line

Flock cameras have quickly become one of the most controversial tools in American law enforcement.But why?On this episode of Holding the Line, Jason Johnson and Sean Kennedy sit down with Charles Fain Lehman, a research fellow at the Manhattan Institute and one of the leading voices pushing back against the growing backlash against Flock and automatic license plate readers (ALPRs).What exactly does Flock do? Is it really a mass-surveillance system? How does it differ from the license plate readers police have used for decades? And what about the legitimate concerns over privacy and potential abuse?Charles breaks down the technology, the misconceptions surrounding it, and the real-world cases where Flock cameras have helped police find missing children, locate wanted suspects, recover stolen vehicles, and solve serious crimes.He also makes the case that the answer isn't to eliminate the technology—but to establish reasonable guardrails governing how police can access, retain, and use the information.And Charles has created a resource to help people see the evidence for themselves: FlockStopsCrime.comCharles' Flock Crime Prevention Tracker is a daily-updated database of news stories documenting cases in which Flock cameras helped solve or prevent crimes. As of September 4, the database contains 1,714 documented incidents.The database includes cases involving everything from vehicle theft and shootings to homicide, robbery, burglary, hit-and-runs, and missing or abducted people.Explore the database:FlockStopsCrime.com — Flock Crime Prevention TrackerCharles Fain Lehman is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and contributing editor at City Journal. His work focuses on crime, drugs, public disorder, and the public policy of antisocial behavior. Charles recently published “In Defense of Flock,” making the case that police camera technology can provide significant public-safety benefits while still allowing for meaningful safeguards against abuse.Read Charles Fain Lehman's “In Defense of Flock”

What happens when we stop arguing about policing in the abstract and look at what actually works?On this episode of Holding the Line we’re joined by Peter Moskos, professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and former Baltimore City police officer who has vital insights on the realities of policing, crime reduction, and the lessons we can learn from some of America’s most dramatic crime declines.Moskos brings a rare perspective to the conversation: he studied policing as an academic, then became a cop himself, working in Baltimore’s Eastern District before returning to academia. His experience informs his approach to studying crime and policing—and his insistence that effective policing deserves to be taken seriously.The conversation explores the remarkable decline in violent crime in New York City during the 1990s, including the role of CompStat, accountability, targeting repeat violent offenders, and a fundamental shift toward making crime reduction an explicit priority of the NYPD.Moskos also discusses why academics and policymakers can be too quick to search for a single explanation for complex changes in crime, why correlation shouldn't be dismissed as meaningless, and why successful policing strategies deserve closer examination rather than ideological dismissal.The conversation also tackles the unintended consequences of measuring police departments by statistics, the evolution of body cameras, civilian oversight, what separates good police departments from bad ones, and the ongoing debate over police reform and abolition.Finally, Moskos weighs in on Baltimore's dramatic recent decline in homicides and why effective police leadership, prosecution, and targeted efforts against repeat violent offenders may offer important lessons for other cities.Peter Moskos is the author of Back from the Brink, an examination of the New York City crime decline.Follow him on X: https://x.com/PeterMoskosGet your copy of Back from the Brink: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0197797776Holding the Line is a podcast about cops, courts, and crime from the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund - follow us everywhere @ LELDF

In this episode of Holding the Line, Jason Johnson sits down with Bill Alexander, CEO of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, to talk about the challenges facing American law enforcement—and why, despite those challenges, there are many reasons to be optimistic about the future of policing in America.Bill brings more than 30 years of law enforcement experience to his work at the Memorial Fund, where he now leads an organization dedicated to honoring fallen officers, telling the story of American law enforcement, and making the profession safer.Jason and Bill discuss:The surprising breadth of public support for law enforcement and why Bill's perception of that support changed dramatically after joining the Memorial Fund.The stories behind the names on the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial and why fallen officers should be remembered not simply as statistics, but as fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, friends, coworkers, and members of their communities.What the Memorial Fund's officer safety and wellness work can teach us about preventing future line-of-duty deaths.The changing approach to officer safety, including the growing emphasis on vehicle safety, physical wellness, and other risks that can be overlooked when we focus exclusively on violent deaths.What the public misunderstands about police use of force, including the fundamental disconnect between what many people believe police officers are legally allowed to do and the actual rules governing the use of force.Why officers may hesitate to use force even when they are legally authorized to do so, and how political pressure, media coverage, and fear of discipline or prosecution can affect decision-making.The growing fear among officers of being punished for doing their jobs, even when they follow their training and the law.The recruitment and retention crisis facing law enforcement—and the surprising reason Bill remains hopeful about the future.The next generation of police officers, who Bill and Jason believe may be bringing greater flexibility, thoughtfulness, and communication skills to the profession.Why every law enforcement officer should experience Police Week at least once and what it can teach them about the people and families behind the names on the Memorial.Despite the challenges facing American policing, Bill says he continues to encounter young people who are willing to dedicate their lives to serving their communities. For him, that willingness—and the quality of many of those entering the profession—is a powerful reason for hope.Learn more about the incredible work of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund—and plan your visit: nleomf.org

On this episode of Holding the Line, Sean Kennedy sits down with Professor Laura Huey of the University of Western Ontario, a criminologist and policing researcher whose path into the field began not through law enforcement, but through personal experience with victimization and growing up in a family where police were frequently called.Huey has spent decades studying policing and victimization in marginalized communities, including extensive work in Vancouver, Los Angeles, and Skid Row. She brings a perspective that challenges some of the conventional assumptions about crime, policing and criminal justice.Please enjoy this episode and admire Sean’s restraint not making too many Canadian jokes.FOLLOW Dr. Huey on X: https://x.com/ProfLauraHueyHer book The Wicked Problems of Police Reform in Canada: https://a.co/d/0dFBJ107Her book Evidence Based Policing: An Introduction: https://www.amazon.com/Evidence-based-policing-Ren%C3%A9e-Mitchell-ebook/dp/B07KY1R91F?ref_=ast_author_mpbThe conversation explores:Why some of the people most vulnerable to violent victimization are also the least likely to report crimes.What Laura learned from working in Skid Row and other marginalized communities.The impossible demands placed on police in communities struggling with addiction, mental illness, homelessness and crime.Whether diversion programs and other alternative approaches to policing actually work—and why Huey is skeptical of poorly designed evaluations.How governments can create incentives for organizations to evaluate their own programs.The difference between funding temporary programs and investing in permanent solutions to problems like addiction and mental illness.The complicated relationship between homelessness, mental illness, addiction and victimization.Why “compassion” without meaningful intervention can sometimes leave vulnerable people trapped in cycles of addiction, crime and victimization.Why victims don't report crimes—and what happens when people lose confidence that the justice system will protect them.How underfunding police, courts and other parts of the criminal justice system ultimately affects victims.The differences between the Canadian and American approaches to criminal justice.Huey's answer to that final question is straightforward: FUND the criminal justice system—and fund independent research to make sure we're actually getting what we're paying for.This is a wide-ranging conversation about policing, public safety, victims and the difficult problems that governments often prefer not to confront. For a Holding the Line first, we're marking this episode EXPLICIT since Dr. Huey has an admittedly filthy mouth. Listener discretion is advised.

It feels like the era of "Soros DAs" is coming to an end...High-profile recalls, election defeats, and growing public backlash have fueled the perception that the progressive prosecutor movement is losing momentum.But is it?This week, Sean Kennedy is joined by Parker Thayer, investigative reporter and researcher at the Capital Research Center, to examine how the movement has changed over the past decade. Rather than disappearing, Parker argues that the organizations, donor networks, and nonprofit infrastructure behind progressive prosecutors have adapted—becoming more sophisticated, more decentralized, and in many cases, harder to track.Together, they explore how billionaire-funded nonprofits, advocacy organizations, and political action committees continue to shape criminal justice policy long after Election Day—and why understanding this ecosystem is just as important as understanding the prosecutors themselves.Parker estimates roughly $1 billion invested over two decades into prosecutor campaigns and related nonprofits.If you want to understand how criminal justice policy is really shaped, this episode lays it out.This episode covers: • How George Soros built the modern prosecutor movement• Why nonprofit organizations—not campaigns—now drive criminal justice policy• The billion-dollar ecosystem supporting progressive prosecutors• Why donors are becoming increasingly secretive• How these organizations control over 50 DAs offices nationwideIf you enjoyed this episode following the money behind America's progressive prosecutor movement, follow Parker and dig into the outstanding work of the Capital Research Center:https://x.com/ParkerThayerhttps://x.com/capitalresearchhttps://capitalresearch.org/https://www.influencewatch.org/

When a critical incident happens, the facts aren't the only thing moving fast—misinformation is too.Award-winning journalist and law enforcement communications strategist Julie Parker joins Jason Johnson to discuss why effective communication has become one of the most important responsibilities of modern policing.After spending years as an investigative reporter before leading communications for two major police departments, Julie shares what she learned from both sides of the camera.The conversation explores why police agencies must educate the public long before a crisis occurs, how delayed communication allows false narratives to spread, why body-worn cameras are among the strongest tools for protecting officers, and what every police chief should do BEFORE the next critical incident happens.Whether you're a law enforcement leader, officer, journalist, or simply interested in how public narratives are shaped, this episode offers practical lessons on transparency, trust, and getting the facts out—before someone else tells the story for you.Learn more about Julie's work and connect with her: https://www.julieparkerco.com/Subscribe to Holding the Line so you never miss an episode

Across the country, law enforcement officers are unjustly tarred with a career-killing scarlet letter that precludes them from participating in most police work... and no opportunity to appeal or often even find out HOW they were put on the list to begin with.Today Sean and Jason lay out what most people don't know about these lists - and why states should pass legislation giving officers a clear explanation for their inclusion on these lists and a meaningful opportunity to appeal.Stay tuned for our upcoming report - and learn more about Cory Novick: https://www.city-journal.org/article/brady-v-maryland-police-officers-due-processThanks for listening to Holding the Line - follow @LELDF to stay up to date on all our latest cases - and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

We're crossing the finish line on our first season of Holding the Line and are so grateful to all our new listeners for the community and support you've grown to be—and to all our incredible guests for sharing their stories, insights, and experiences.From Dennis Spaulding exposing the Obama DOJ's war on cops, Rob Quick offering resources for struggling first responders, Loudoun County Sheriff Mike Chapman and former prosecutor Patrick Kenneally shedding light on the dysfunctions in the criminal justice system that have flourished under anti-cop policies—and so, so many more - we hope you've enjoyed this season and have changed your perspective on law enforcement in America.We'll see you soon with Season Two - in the mean time please make sure you leave us a 5 star review wherever you get your podcasts and make sure you're following LELDF across social platforms so you never miss an update from us!

In this powerful and deeply personal episode, we sit down with Rob Quick, Executive Vice President and COO of Harbor of Grace Recovery Center, to talk about the hidden mental health crisis facing first responders.With over two decades in law enforcement, Rob shares his own journey—from a high-performing police officer struggling with alcohol and cumulative stress, to becoming a leader in recovery and advocacy for others walking the same path.Together, we unpack the realities behind the badge: the trauma, the burnout, the stigma, and the quiet ways it all adds up over time.What We Cover:Why mental health challenges are more prevalent among first respondersThe cumulative impact of trauma—“stones in a backpack” that eventually break the strapHow substance use, PTSD, burnout, and grief are often deeply connectedThe cultural stigma that keeps officers from asking for help—and how that’s changingWhy peer-based treatment environments are uniquely effectiveWhat accessible, insurance-covered care actually looks likeHow departments can support officers before crisis hitsRob’s Story: From Officer to AdvocateRob opens up about his own experience seeking treatment after years in a “work hard, play hard” law enforcement culture. His recovery didn’t end his career—it reshaped it.Now, he helps first responders across the country find healing, connection, and a path forward.First responders are often seen as strong, resilient, even invincible—but the reality is far more complex. The weight they carry doesn’t disappear when the shift ends.Resources & SupportIf you or someone you know is struggling, you can learn more or get help through:Harbor of Grace Recovery Center🌐 https://harborofgracerecovery.com📞 24/7 support is available—make the call: 443-502-8606

Rafael Mangual knows crime. As a criminal justice policy analyst, legal commentator, and author, he has become a household name for his work on policing, public safety, and crime policy. He is the Nick Ohnell Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, where his research focuses on crime trends, prosecution, bail reform, and the broader impacts of criminal justice policies on communities.His commentary and analysis have also appeared in major media outlets, including The Wall Street Journal, New York Post, The New York Times, and he is a frequent guest on national television and radio programs.His book Criminal (In)Justice blows apart common narratives about mass incarceration, policing, and systemic bias in the U.S. criminal justice system.We’re honored to have Rafael join us on Holding the Line for a discussion of recent crime trends, law enforcement strategies, and the impact of policy changes on public safety—including insights into hyperlocal crime phenomena, the effects of drug legalization, and the importance of proactive policing.Episode Links:Get Rafael’s book: https://manhattan.institute/book/criminal-injusticeNew York Post: https://nypost.com/author/rafael-a-mangual/Manhattan Institute: https://manhattan.institute/person/rafael-a-mangualRead some of his latest op-eds on criminal justice and policing:New York’s Self-Induced Repeat Offender Problem https://www.city-journal.org/article/new-york-criminal-history-prior-arrests(NYT Gift Link!) The Left Keeps Getting It Wrong on Crime https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/24/opinion/crime-police-progressive-policy.html?unlocked_article_code=1.dFA.aDkA.uP9o20DVaYRM&smid=url-shareWhat possible justification do Dems have for not letting ICE deport a sex offender? https://nypost.com/2026/02/02/opinion/what-possible-justification-do-dems-have-for-not-letting-ice-deport-a-sex-offender---If you’re enjoying this first season of Holding the Line, please be sure to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review on the podcast platform of your choice.And if you haven’t already subscribed to our Substack—what are you waiting for? Sign up now: https://substack.com/@leldf

How often do law enforcement officers actually use force?After digging into the data, it turns out violent encounters are incredibly rare. Over a million 911 calls, only 0.1% involve ANY use of force.This episode debunks common myths about police use of force, highlighting the gap between public perception and reality. Sean and Jason analyze survey data, media reports, and real-world cases to clarify misconceptions and discuss the impact on law enforcement and community trust.And just for fun, Sean obliterates the Washington Post “fatal force” database.

This week Sean sat down with his old friend Patrick Kenneally, former states attorney for a county outside Chicago who, as he says, was “mugged by reality” by his wild experiences with the criminal justice system and the radical policies and practices he saw up close - and their deadly outcomes. This was a highly entertaining episode - Patrick is a great storyteller and we know you'll really enjoy this one.He discusses the importance of accountability, challenging traditional views on addiction as a disease—and proved that strict enforcement of drug laws saves lives.

Consent decrees: what are they, when did they start—and what has the impact been on law enforcement and crime? Our guest, Bob Scales breaks down the political, financial, and social ramifications of these agreements and discusses why they often fail to achieve meaningful reform.Key Topics:The history and legal background of consent decrees, starting from Rodney King and the 1994 pattern of practice lawHow the Obama administration dramatically increased the use of consent decrees and the shift towards monetization and extended enforcementThe political dynamics influencing which police departments are targeted and how investigations are often predeterminedThe impact of consent decrees on police morale, costs, and crime rates, supported by city-specific examples like Seattle and PhoenixThe role of activists, attorneys, and political actors in shaping and perpetuating consent decree processesCase studies of cities like Baltimore, Phoenix, and Memphis that challenged or resisted federal interventionThe pitfalls of relying on consent decrees for police reform versus internal improvements and voluntary change

Doug O'Connell is a former special forces officer and retired Army Colonel (Jason apologizes for mistaking him for a former JAG officer) with a passion for defending innocent military members and law enforcement officers.Based in Austin, Texas, Doug and his team have gone toe to toe with the radical Soros-backed DA in Travis County many times in defense of wrongfully-charged law enforcement officers—and they just keep winning.Doug even got the court to sanction Garza's office after catching them withholding exculpatory evidence at trial in 2022... and he's doing it again!Doug has filed a Motion to Dismiss the criminal case pending against LELDF supported officer Chance Bretches—alleging the Travis County District Attorney’s Office purposefully withheld exculpatory evidence during discovery.Jose Garza is one of the 40+ prosecutors nationwide whose offices are controlled by the Wren Collective.Dig into our report on the Wren Collective: https://www.policedefense.org/outsourcing-justice/Don't forget to hit subscribe—and leave us a five star rating and review!

Part 2: After the VerdictThis is the second part of our in depth interview with former East Haven police officer Dennis Spaulding—one of four officers indicted by the Obama DOJ in 2012 after he and his team uncovered a massive illegal immigrant fraud network using illegal license plates and insisted on doing their jobs—enforcing the law—in their small Connecticut town.Last week the first part of this interview clearly struck a nerve.We heard from so many of you—predominantly new listeners who were shocked by the story, who had never heard of the case... and who want to know what happened next!This conversation has been one of our most anticipated follow-ups yet. Today in part two we pick up where that story left off: The activist priest who interfered with his duties, the trial... and Dennis takes us inside his time in federal prison—what he experienced, how he endured it, and the personal toll it took on him and his family.He reflects on what it’s like to go from serving your community as a police officer to serving time as a federal inmate—when his youngest daughter was a newborn.We also explore the aftermath of the case: what happened to the East Haven Police Department—and how this prosecution continues to impact him and his fellow officers to this day.Finally, we zoom out to the bigger picture: What a pardon by President Trump would mean for these men and their families.

Former East Haven, Connecticut police officer Dennis Spaulding joins us to share his horrifying story—and it's one you’ve likely never heard.In 2012, the Obama DOJ indicted four officers from the East Haven Police Department—Dennis Spaulding, John Miller, David Cari, and Jason Zullo—after a federal investigation into allegations that members of the department had violated the civil rights of Latino residents.This was nothing but a politically motivated prosecution fueled by anti-police activism and federal pressure to make an example out of a small police department enforcing immigration laws.These men were not corrupt. They were not rogue actors. They were committed, decorated professionals engaged in the unglamorous work of enforcing the law in a community plagued by fraudulent vehicle registrations, gang activity, and illegal enterprises. Yet because many of those arrested happened to be undocumented immigrants, the DOJ sought to brand the entire department as racist.Spaulding was sentenced to five years in federal prison.In this interview, Spaulding shares his side of the story for the first time in depth—and his hopes that President Trump will issue him and his fellow officers a pardon that will allow them to move on with their lives.Coming Next: In Part 2, we discuss the aftermath of the trial, Spaulding’s time in federal prison, and the broader questions his case raises about federal civil rights prosecutions of police officers.

Leftwing activists have been targeting Sheriff Mike Chapman of Loudoun County, Virginia over his support of School Resource Officers for elementary schools in the district... but the slogans they're screaming don't make any sense. The Sheriff joins the podcast to discuss the unique aspects of law enforcement in his jurisdiction, give insights on school security and safety, and so much more.Sheriff Mike Chapman has devoted a lifetime to law enforcement. His book Step Up and Lead addresses the ups and downs leaders face, examples of what works and what doesn't, and how his unique "Step Up" strategy of improved Service, Technology, Efficiency, and Professionalism can help you succeed in your own organization. Get your copy here: https://stepupandleadbook.com

This episode discusses the impact of false narratives and misinformation on public perceptions of law enforcement—specifically regarding use of force. We address the prevalence of myths and misconceptions about police violence and the influence of these narratives on public opinion and policy.The truth? Fatal police shootings are unlikely and uncommon. In fact, police shootings are incredibly rare. Using the Washington Post’s Fatal Force database and a 2023 Johns Hopkins University study, only .003% of police encounters results in fatal or injurious shooting.Data, polls, and surveys cited in LELDF report Fatal Falsehoods: https://www.policedefense.org/fatal-falsehoods/SOURCES FOR OPENING CLIPS:Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, April 20, 2021: https://www.C-span.Org/clip/news-conference/user-clip-hakeem-jeffries-we-have-a-police-violence-problem-4-20-2021/5194003 Bernie Sanders, March 3, 2019: https://www.Presidency.Ucsb.Edu/documents/remarks-campaign-rally-chicago-illinois-0Rep. Jamaal Bowman, Feb 6, 2023: https://www.c-span.org/program/us-house-of-representatives/house-sessions-part-3/623706

What really happens when innocent law enforcement officers are wrongfully charged with crimes?In 2022, Special Agent Mark Wagner confronted a violent career criminal who resisted arrest. Acting lawfully to protect himself and his partner, Mark did exactly what he was trained to do. A full investigation confirmed his actions were justified.A radical prosecutor charged him anyway.Mark joins the podcast to describe the devastating toll his ordeal took on his family, finances, and career. He shares what it’s like to face prison after three decades of honorable service—and the relief of a not guilty verdict.Mark’s story is not an anomaly. It reflects a growing pattern of activist prosecutions that are destroying the lives and careers of good officers simply for enforcing the law. We examine how this weaponization of the justice system is chilling proactive policing, eroding morale, and putting public safety at risk nationwide.If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love your feedback. Email [email protected] with any questions or thoughts and please subscribe to Holding the Line wherever you get your podcasts—and leave a five-star review to help support the show.Thanks for listening.

Welcome to the inaugural episode of Holding the Line—cutting through myths, media narratives, and political rhetoric to explore the realities facing law enforcement today.What is the “war on cops” and when did it begin? In this episode, hosts Jason Johnson and Sean Kennedy lay the foundation for the podcast by tracing the history and evolution of the anti-cop movement in America. They examine key cultural, political, and media moments that have profoundly shaped public perception, policy decisions, and the day-to-day realities of policing.If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love your feedback.Email [email protected] with any questions or thoughts and please subscribe to Holding the Line wherever you get your podcasts—and leave a five-star review to help support the show.Thanks for listening.