Holy Uncertain

After twelve episodes exploring faith, doubt, and everything in between, we’re taking a moment to reflect.What has changed in us?What questions are we still holding?And what’s next?In this Season One wrap-up, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod revisit the voices and ideas that shaped this first chapter—from rethinking how we read the Bible to expanding our understanding of the gospel, from stories of harm and healing to the hope that people can change. They reflect on what it means to listen with humility, to stay curious, and to let uncertainty open us up rather than shut us down.Whether you’ve been with us from the beginning or are just finding the show, this episode is an invitation: to keep asking honest questions, to make space for new perspectives, and to trust that you’re not alone in the process. Plus, we share what’s ahead for the next season and the topics we’re excited to explore.Spread the word about the podcast, catch up on episodes you’ve missed, and we’ll see you in about a month.Have a question or topic you want us to explore in future episodes?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

Justice is central to the teachings of the Bible—so why has it become so contested within Christianity?In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by priest, theologian, and author Fr. Joash Thomas to discuss how history, culture, and power have shaped the Western church’s understanding of justice, and what might be lost when care for the vulnerable becomes secondary to ideology or certainty.Drawing from his own story—growing up in India as part of an ancient Christian tradition and later working within American politics—Joash offers a perspective that challenges the ways many of us have come to understand justice, faith, and what it means to follow Jesus.This conversation invites a broader, more global view of Christianity—one that learns from traditions outside the Western church and re-centers the life and teachings of Jesus as a call to love, humility, and care for others.If you’ve ever wondered why justice has become so complicated within the church—or felt disillusioned by the divide—this episode offers a thoughtful place to wrestle and reflect.Continue to learn from Joash Thomas:www.joashpthomas.comInstagram: @joashpthomasSubstack: Masala Chai Theology with Fr. Joash P. ThomasRead Joash’s Book:The Justice of JesusHave a question or topic you want us to explore?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

What can the study of stories teach us about the Bible?In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Chris McLeod and Lauren Ranzino are joined by mythologist, storyteller, and Executive Director of the Joseph Campbell Foundation, John Bucher, to explore how stories shape the way we understand faith, scripture, and the world around us.Together, they unpack what “myth” really means—and why it has less to do with something being false and more to do with how humans make meaning. Through conversation spanning everything from Harry Potter to ancient texts, John invites us to reconsider how we read the Bible: not just as history to be proven, but as story that can transform the way we see ourselves, God, and the world.Along the way, they wrestle with belief, doubt, and the role of storytelling in shaping a life of faith—asking what might become possible if we approached scripture with curiosity instead of certainty.If you’ve ever felt stuck between taking the Bible literally or leaving it behind entirely, this conversation offers a different way forward.Continue learning from John Bucher:www.tellingabetterstory.comInstagram: @tellingabetterstoryJoseph Campbell Foundation: https://www.jcf.org/Read John’s Books:The Storytelling Almanac: A Weekly Guide To Telling A Better StoryAnd many more.Take John’s Courses:The Shared Heroes’ Journey: Myth and Social ChangeThe Mystic Wizard of OzHave a question or topic you want us to explore?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

In place of our usual episode this week, we’re offering a short Good Friday reflection—an invitation to pause, to grieve, and to sit with what is broken before rushing to what comes next.Co-host Lauren Ranzino sits with the weight of a broken world, while holding onto both grief and hope.Today, we take a beat.We make space for what breaks our hearts.And we remember: this is not the end of the story.We’ll be back next week with a full episode.Have a question or topic you want us to explore?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

What is church actually supposed to look like?In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by pastor, author, and musician Tommy Preson Phillips to explore why so many people are rethinking the way church has been practiced.Tommy, co-author of Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ, shares why so many people are walking away from church—not because they’ve lost faith, but because they no longer see Jesus reflected in the systems they’ve inherited. Together, they examine how layers of tradition, power, and cultural assumptions have shaped modern church structures, and what it might look like to strip things back to something more honest, relational, and rooted in the way of Jesus.From the early church’s radically inclusive communities to the rise of institutional models, this conversation wrestles with what’s essential, what might be worth letting go of, and how spiritual community could be reimagined today.If you’ve ever felt disconnected from church but still long for faith, belonging, and a more authentic way of following Jesus, this episode offers a hopeful place to explore.Continue to learn from Tommy Preson Phillips:SubstackInstagram: @tommypresonphillipsRead Tommy’s Book:Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ by Scot McKnight and Tommy Preson PhillipsListen to Tommy’s Music:www.presonphillips.comHave a question or topic you want us to explore?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

Have our beliefs about God limited people with disabilities from living full lives?In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by disabled scholar-practitioner, author, and advocate Dr. Amy Kenny, who also serves as the director of the Disability Cultural Center at Georgetown University, to examine the ways Christian theology has often treated disabled people as broken, incomplete, or in need of fixing.Together, they explore how ideas about the fall, healing, and heaven have shaped the church’s relationship to disability—and how those beliefs can reinforce ableism, even when intentions are good. Amy invites us to reconsider familiar biblical stories through the lens of disability theology, asking what we miss when disabled people are treated as objects of ministry rather than trusted theological voices.This conversation challenges assumptions about healing, access, and belonging, while pointing toward a more expansive vision of the kingdom of God—one where disabled people are not sidelined, but centered.If you’ve ever sensed that the church’s understanding of disability might be too narrow, this conversation offers a thoughtful place to reflect and learn from disabled wisdom.Continue to learn from Dr. Amy Kenny:Instagram: @dramykennyRead Amy’s Books:My Body Is Not a Prayer Request: Disability Justice in the ChurchMy Disability Is Divine: A Joyful Witness That Defies Ableist NonsenseLearn more about the Disability Cultural Center at Georgetown:https://disabilityculture.georgetown.edu/Special thanks to Charlie French for the inspiration and for allowing us to showcase his art. Find him on Instagram: @charliefrenchfineartAnd visit our YouTube page to view his art at the top of this week's episode.Have a question or topic you want us to explore?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

Is evangelism always good news?In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by theologian, activist, and author Dr. Randy Woodley to rethink one of the most central practices in modern Christianity: evangelism.Dr. Woodley, a theologian and longtime advocate for Indigenous wisdom in the church, invites us to consider how evangelism has often been shaped by Platonic assumptions rather than the teachings of Jesus. Together they explore the difference between sharing good news and imposing belief—and what a more humble, relational approach to faith might look like.Instead of asking how to convert people, this episode asks a deeper question: what if the good news of Jesus looks less like persuasion and more like learning, listening, and mutual transformation?If you’ve ever wondered whether the way Christianity has been shared reflects the heart of Jesus, this conversation offers a thoughtful place to reflect.Continue to learn from Dr. Randy Woodley:https://www.randywoodley.com/Instagram: @eloheheagleswingsSubstackRead Randy’s Books:Journey to Eloheh: How Indigenous Values Lead Us to Harmony and Well-BeingIndigenous Theology and the Western Worldview: A Decolonized Approach to Christian DoctrineAnd Many MoreLearn more and visit Eloheh:https://www.eloheh.org/Have a question or topic you want us to explore?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

Is there a way for leaders to make things right after causing real harm?In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by Joshua Harris, author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye, to reflect on purity culture, the damage it caused, and what it looks like to confront the consequences of ideas that shaped an entire generation.Together, they talk about the shame, fear, and distorted theology that purity culture embedded in so many of us—and what happens when a leader begins to listen to the people harmed by their work. Josh shares the long, uneasy process of rethinking his beliefs, stepping away from systems that rewarded certainty, and trying to respond with honesty rather than defensiveness.This conversation doesn’t offer easy closure. Instead, it explores repentance as something slower, costlier, and more complicated than simply a public apology.If you’ve ever wondered whether repair is possible after real harm has been done, this episode offers a thoughtful place to begin.For more from Josh Harris:https://joshharris.comInstagram: @harris.joshListen to Josh’s Podcast: Clear & Loud with Josh HarrisHave a question or topic you want us to explore?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

Are you finding it hard to call yourself a Christian right now—even if you still love Jesus? What do you do when people who share your faith carry beliefs that feel impossible to reconcile?In this episode of Holy Uncertain, Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by writer and journalist Sara Billups to explore how to navigate ideological and theological differences without defaulting to cutting people off—or shutting down curiosity.Sara reflects on how fear-based frameworks from the 80s and 90s shaped so many of us, from rapture narratives and “Left Behind” anxiety to the way politics and religion have become tangled in the American church. Together, they talk about how these inherited theologies still live in our bodies and our communities—and how we can examine them honestly without losing each other.If you’ve ever felt torn between conviction and connection, this episode offers thoughtful language for the way forward.Continue to learn from Sara Billups:www.sarabillups.comInstagram: @sara.billupsThreadsSubstackRead Sara’s Books:Nervous Systems: Spiritual Practices to Calm Anxiety in Your Body, the Church, and PoliticsOrphaned Believers: How a Generation of Christian Exiles Can Find the Way HomeHave a question or topic you want us to explore?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

At some point, the question shifts. It’s no longer just: What do I believe? It becomes something deeper and more personal: Do I stay Christian?In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Chris McLeod and Lauren Ranzino are joined by author, speaker, and theologian Brian McLaren to explore what it means to be a Christian and look at a faith tradition that has, at times, caused real harm or disappointment. Brian discusses the tension between belonging and integrity, doubt and commitment, and the complicated work of deciding whether to stay, leave, or redefine what staying even means.Rather than offering a formula or final answer, this conversation examines the cost and courage involved in each path. What does it look like to remain connected to Christianity without denying its failures? And how do we discern whether staying is an act of faithfulness – or fear? This episode offers language, perspective, and a thoughtful way to sit with these questions.Continue to learn from Brian McLaren: www.brianmclaren.netCenter for Action and Contemplation: https://cac.org/Listen to Brian’s podcast: Learning How to SeeRead Brian’s Books:Do I Stay Christian?: A Guide for the Doubters, the Disappointed, and the DisillusionedFaith After Doubt: Why Your Beliefs Stopped Working and What to Do About Itand MANY MORE here.Have a question or topic you want us to explore?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

How often have you been told that the Bible is clear—only to feel confused, unsettled, or even harmed by the way it’s been taught or used?In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by pastor, author, and co-founder of the Post-Evangelical Collective, Zach Lambert, to discuss how we might engage Scripture as a tool of healing rather than a weapon of harm.Together, they explore how interpretation is shaped by different lenses—and why questioning the way we’ve learned to read the Bible doesn’t have to mean abandoning it. Instead, they consider how faithful engagement can begin with re-examination and, at times, unlearning.If reading the Bible has ever felt confusing, harmful, or disconnected from the life you’re trying to live, this episode offers a steadier path forward.Continue to learn from Zach Lambert: www.zachwlambert.orgInstagram: @zachwlambertFacebook SubstackRead Zach’s book:Better Ways to Read the BibleWhat are you uncertain about? We want to know.Email us at: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

How many times have you asked Jesus into your heart? In this episode of Holy Uncertain, we turn to a question many of us thought we already knew the answer to: What is the gospel?Joined by theologian, activist, and author Lisa Sharon Harper, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod explore how familiar definitions of “the good news” can feel insufficient when we’re facing real grief, suffering, and injustice.This conversation holds space for honesty about doubt and pain, while Lisa shares a broader, more rooted vision of hope—one that isn’t just something we believe, but something we live out through our care for one another and the world around us. If you’ve ever wondered whether the gospel was meant to be more than a ticket into heaven, then this episode is for you.Continue to learn from Lisa Sharon Harper: www.LisaSharonHarper.comInstagram: @lisasharonharperSubstackRead Lisa’s incredible books:The Very Good Gospel Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World--and How to Repair It AllAnd MANY MORE here.What are you uncertain about? We want to know.Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

In this first episode of Holy Uncertain, you’re invited into an honest conversation about doubt, belief, and the tension so many of us carry when faith no longer feels simple. Whether you’ve spent your whole life in the church, stepped away entirely, or are somewhere in between, this episode names a reality many people experience but rarely talk about out loud.You’ll hear from hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod on why this podcast exists, how it came to be, and why uncertainty isn’t a failure of faith—but often the beginning of something deeper.If you’ve ever felt alone in your questions, this episode reminds you that you’re not—and that wrestling with belief can be a meaningful, even sacred, part of the journey.New episodes drop every Friday.Have a question or topic you want us to explore?Email us: [email protected] Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.