PODCAST · education
How did it make sense?
by Gareth Lock
'How did it make sense?' explores the local rationality of those involved in doing what they did. Each podcast lasts about 45 mins and aims to follow a similar format. Initially, we will look at the 'first story' which is normally scant in details and triggers an emotional response, and then we will look at the 'second story' that looks at the goal conflicts, the ambiguities, the assumptions, the tensions, and the trade-offs that led to those involved doing what they did. This context-rich story is the one that learning opportunities come from, not focusing on the counterfactuals that often arise from 'first stories'. The goal is to encourage you to look deeper at the socio-technical system presented by the guests and how we can make improvements by abstracting from the multiple domains discussed in the podcast to the our own domains.
Episodes
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Ep 28: Nathalie Lasselin - “You were nearly hit by a tug. They didn’t see us.”
On today’s episode of How did it make sense I am joined by Nathalie Lasselin, a filmmaker, technical diver, explorer, and someone who dives where most people wouldn’t even go looking. Nathalie’s story starts with an ambitious expedition called Urban Water Odyssey, a 44-mile dive along the St....
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Ep 27. Steve Smith - “How could you have tied the wrong anchor knot?”
Today on How Did It Make Sense? I’m joined by Steve Smith, a kindred spirit and expert in outdoor education and safety. Steve has spent decades in the outdoor education and safety world, worked across wilderness programs, Outward Bound, and the Student Conservation Association, helping people...
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Ep 26. Sabine Fürst - "She's just a midwife"
In this episode, I’m joined by Sabine, a former midwife and flight attendant turned consultant, as we explore the hidden human factors at play in healthcare, specifically in the labour ward. Sabine’s research shines a light on the power dynamics between midwives and obstetricians, how…
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Ep 25. Justin Featherstone - Now the rope is cut, I am truly alone in this crevasse. What happens now?
In this powerful episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I speak with Justin Featherstone MC leadership consultant, former Army officer, and mountaineer. Justin shares an extraordinary account of survival after being trapped in a crevasse on Mont Blanc, this conversation dives deep into what happens...
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Ep 24. Marcus Dimbleby - You hit the aircraft crash alarm! Why did you do that?!
What happens when someone tests your emergency plan—and no one’s ready? In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I speak with Marcus Dimbleby, ex-RAF Wing Commander and now partner at Effective Direction, about the moment he walked into an ops room and triggered the crash alarm on purpose. We...
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Ep 23. Chris Davies - 'Blaming up' - what's the difference to blaming down?
In this episode of How Did It Make Sense? I sit down with Chris Davies, co-founder of Volaria Performance, to dig deeper into the idea of blaming up versus blaming down. Chris shares a story from his military aviation days – a high-pressure scenario involving rapid descents, rotor overspeeds, and…
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Ep 22. Aaron Potash - Why did nobody help with the struggling diving instructor?
In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I speak with Aaron Potash about a tragic diving incident in Monterey. A struggling student, a distressed instructor, and a beach full of bystanders—why did no one step in? This story raises important questions about how we recognise and respond to…
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Ep 21. Natia Ellis & Liam Duggan - Did the armed police officer have to take that action?
In today’s episode of How Did It Make Sense? I sit down with two fellow Lund University graduates, Liam Duggan and Natia Ellis, to dig into the realities of police use of force and the critical role of second-story analysis. We start by dissecting a high-stakes policing scenario—a mental health...
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Ep 20. Ken Mudd - Six 415V cables were supposed to be dead. But one was live.
A planned electrical job. A misidentified live cable. A workplace accident that could have been fatal. What really happened, and what can we learn from it? In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I am joined by Ken Mudd, a seasoned health and safety expert with over 25 years of experience…
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Ep 19. Kristian Gould - How could you not see the oil tanker?
A state-of-the-art Navy frigate collides with an oil tanker in clear conditions—so how could no one on board see it coming? In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I sit down with human factors expert Kristian Gould to unpack the second story behind the high-profile 2018 collision of the...
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Ep 18. Jessie Singer - Why would someone drive a vehicle down a pedestrian walkway?
My best friend was killed but why would someone drive a vehicle down a pedestrian walkway? The answer isn’t as simple as you might think. In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I sit down with investigative journalist and author Jessie Singer to challenge the way we think about accidents....
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Ep 17. Eoin Walker - The Airway Kit Got Vomited On During the Emergency Tracheotomy
When your airway kit gets vomited on mid-procedure, things get a whole lot harder—especially in a high-stakes, high-pressure medical emergency. In today’s episode on How Did It Make Sense, I’m joined by Eoin Walker from the World Extreme Medicine Forum, and we’re diving into one of the toughest...
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Ep 16. Ann Stow - You'll do it this way. Or you can leave.
When a big organisation acquires a small, thriving SME, it should be a perfect match—right? Not always. In this week's episode of How Did it Make Sense, I sit down with Ann Stow, Chartered Psychologist and founder of Humanise Work, to unpack the real story behind a merger that went wrong. Within...
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Ep 15. Stephen Harvey - If only they'd have followed the rules. Then they would be alive.
"If only they'd followed the rules"—a phrase we hear all too often in health and safety. But what if the story isn't that simple? In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I chat with safety expert Stephen Harvey to uncover the second story—the deeper, more complex reality behind incidents....
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Ep 14. Colette Alexander - What could go wrong if we don't test ALL of the code?
If we don’t test all the code, entire global systems can go down—and it’s not as simple as it seems. In this episode I speak with Colette Alexander, Director of Site Reliability Engineering at HashiCorp, about software failures, risk in software testing, and resilience in engineering. They dive...
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Ep. 13 - Chad Todd. Can't you just turn it off and then on again: IT crash!
Learn how engineers and leaders turn breakdowns into breakthroughs to foster learning, resilience, and innovation. Today I am joined by Chad Todd a seasoned SRE Manager at CrowdStrike with over 20 years of experience in the tech industry. Chad shares with us a a detailed account of a recent…
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Ep.12 - James Newman. You aren't supposed to put the o-rings on all the connectors
In this episode, I chat to Human Organizational Performance Manager James Newman. James dives into a memorable story from his days in the nuclear industry, where a seemingly simple task—replacing O-rings during a refueling outage—escalated into a high-stress situation. With incomplete briefings,...
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Ep.11 – Becky Ray. You put your body under a suspended vehicle to change a tyre
In this episode, I am joined by Becky Ray, founder of Culture Kick, to explore how context, culture, and unseen dynamics lead to decisions that might, on the surface, seem irrational. Becky shares a gripping story of a technician working under an unsupported load, leading to a devastating injury....
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Ep.10 - Andy Barker. You believe you can explain why this guy lost his fingers?
In this episode, I explore a striking story with Andy Barker, a strategic leader with decades of global experience. Together, they examine a workplace incident where quick judgments labelled an action as “stupid”—a worker losing fingers after grabbing a running machine belt. But as Andy reveals,...
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Ep.9 - David Wollage. Fired! Rules say you must wear fall protection near active edge
In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, we explore the deeper story behind a scaffolder’s dismissal for violating fall protection rules near an active edge. While the surface narrative suggests a simple case of rule-breaking, the second story reveals a web of personal challenges…
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Ep.8 - Ben Cattaneo. Why go into that market when it was obvious it would fail?
Today I am joined by Ben Cattaneo, founder of The Decision-Making Studio, to explore the fascinating world of decision-making under uncertainty. Ben shares a compelling first story about an organization entering the Chinese market, drawn by opportunity but ultimately facing challenges they didn’t...
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Ep.7 - Mike Mason. The pilot failed to spot the reducing power
In this episode, I'm joined by Mike Mason, an experienced fast-jet pilot, flight instructor and The Human Diver trainer, to explore the often-overlooked complexity of human factors in high-risk environments. Mike brings a fascinating perspective, blending his experience in the Royal Air Force and...
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Ep.6 - Ben Goodheart. Sliding down that chute - what could possibly go wrong?
Today, I’m joined by Ben Goodhart, founder of Magpie Human Systems, a consultancy working in high-stakes industries like aviation, energy, and healthcare. Ben’s background as a pilot, accident investigator, and lifelong adventurer makes him uniquely qualified to dig into the nuances of risk and...
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Ep.5 - Ken Wylie. Why did you go onto that avalanche-prone slope?
In this episode, I had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with Ken Wylie, an incredible adventure educator and risk management expert from Vancouver Island. Ken’s story is one of transformation, resilience, and learning from the toughest experiences life can throw at us. Ken shares his journey...
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Ep.4 - Abhijith Balakrishnan. Crimes of Obedience: Well-meaning auditors in dysfunctional systems
In today’s episode Gareth and Abhijith delve into the complexities of maritime safety, focusing on the audit process and its implications. They discuss the dichotomy between first and second stories in safety management, emphasising how audits often fail to capture the true dynamics of operations...
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Ep.3 - Josh Bryant. “You shouldn't have put your hands in there!”
Gareth and Josh Bryant talk through a hand-crush injury. The incident serves as a case study for exploring deeper causes of workplace events and shifting the focus from blaming individuals to understanding systemic factors. Josh details how the company responded to the event by implementing the...
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Ep.2 - Ron Gantt. “Why did you hit the post box with the garbage truck?”
This episodes features Ron Gantt, HSE Director at Yondr and cohost of the Punk Rock Safety podcast. I and Ron explore how mundane work often masks complex systems with hidden risks. Ron shares his experience with a Midwestern utility company where trash collectors faced unrealistic safety…
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Ep.1 - Jayson Coil. Wildland Firefighting: Don't the contractors understand?!
This episode features a conversation with Jayson Coil, an Assistant Fire Chief and incident commander. Coil discusses the importance of understanding the “local rationality” or how seemingly irrational decisions made by people in complex situations often make sense within their own context.…
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
'How did it make sense?' explores the local rationality of those involved in doing what they did. Each podcast lasts about 45 mins and aims to follow a similar format. Initially, we will look at the 'first story' which is normally scant in details and triggers an emotional response, and then we will look at the 'second story' that looks at the goal conflicts, the ambiguities, the assumptions, the tensions, and the trade-offs that led to those involved doing what they did. This context-rich story is the one that learning opportunities come from, not focusing on the counterfactuals that often arise from 'first stories'. The goal is to encourage you to look deeper at the socio-technical system presented by the guests and how we can make improvements by abstracting from the multiple domains discussed in the podcast to the our own domains.
HOSTED BY
Gareth Lock
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Frequently Asked Questions
How many episodes does How did it make sense? have?
How did it make sense? currently has 28 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is How did it make sense? about?
'How did it make sense?' explores the local rationality of those involved in doing what they did. Each podcast lasts about 45 mins and aims to follow a similar format. Initially, we will look at the 'first story' which is normally scant in details and triggers an emotional response, and then we...
How often does How did it make sense? release new episodes?
How did it make sense? has 28 episodes. Check the episode list to see recent publication dates and frequency.
Where can I listen to How did it make sense??
You can listen to How did it make sense? on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.
Who hosts How did it make sense??
How did it make sense? is created and hosted by Gareth Lock.
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