In-House Outliers
by Brightflag
In-House Outliers shares the stories and secrets of those who have taken unconventional paths and challenged conventional notions of how corporate legal departments should operate.
Episodes
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The System Behind the Legal Tech Stack with BlackLine's Mandy Savoca
In this episode of the In House Outliers podcast, Anna Richards interviews Mandy Savoca, Senior Director of Legal Operations at BlackLine, about the intersection of process and technology. Savoca shares insights from her engineering background to discuss how legal operations professionals can...
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Turning Legal Into a Revenue Engine with The Planet Group's Steve Jorgensen
In this episode, Steve Jorgensen shares the philosophy that's guided his approach to compliance since early in his career: start every process by asking what the business is actually trying to achieve, not by defaulting to how it's always been done, and treat business risk, like the loss of a...
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Connecting the Dots in the AI Era with Legal Operations Leader Matt Jezierski
In this episode, legal ops leader Matt Jezierski walks through the pyramid framework he uses to organize a legal department, with regulatory change flowing down through matters, e-billing, and knowledge management, and makes the case that it's time to stop using AI for one-off, discrete tasks and...
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Leaving People Happier as a Leader with Flock Safety's Dan Haley
In this episode, Flock Safety's Dan Haley shares the leadership philosophy that's guided him since a former CEO handed it to him on his first day: make every person you interact with a little happier for having had the interaction with you or your team. Dan also offers career advice on…
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The Case for a JD in Legal Ops with Sonnedix's Heather Torres
In this episode, Sonnedix's Heather Torres argues that legal training isn't required for legal ops , but it's an unlock, and she's got eight and a half years of experience to back it up. Heather explains why legal background changes how lawyers trust you, and how it's shaped her ability to...
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The Human Side of Legal Technology Adoption with Legal Operations Professional Joe Lewis
In this episode, Legal Operations Professional Joe Lewis shares why getting lawyers to adopt new technology has nothing to do with the technology itself. Drawing on experiences that stretch from teaching seniors how to use YouTube at a public library to building change management infrastructure...
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What E-Billing Implementation Actually Takes with Agiloft's Frances Dupree
In this episode of the In-House Outliers podcast, Anna Richards speaks with Frances Dupree, Principal Customer Success Manager at Agiloft, about what e-billing implementation actually takes from someone who learned it the hard way. Frances spent over a decade moving through legal operations…
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Progress Over Perfection: Building Legal Ops from Scratch with LUMA Energy's Federico Vicente
In this episode of the In-House Outliers podcast, Anna Richards speaks with Federico Vicente, Legal Operations Specialist at LUMA Energy in Puerto Rico, about building a legal department from nothing. Federico joined LUMA three years ago to find a department running on email with no intake, no...
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Scaling Legal Operations Across a Global Team with ABF's Dan Wate
In this episode of the In-House Outliers podcast, host Anna Richards speaks with Dan Wate, Legal Operations Manager at Associated British Foods, about managing legal operations solo across a global team of 150 lawyers in 14 countries. Dan shares his journey from joining ABF before legal ops had a...
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From Buyer to Partner: Building Better Legal Tech Relationships with Novartis's Michael Francony
In this episode, Michael Francony, Senior Legal Project and Operations Manager at Novartis, shares what it really takes to transition from buyer to true partner when working with legal technology vendors. Drawing on experience from both sides of the table he offers a grounded perspective on what...
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Bridging Legal Ops and Finance with Generate's Michelle Garza
In this episode, Michelle Garza, Legal Operations Manager at Generate, discusses how she built a deep and productive partnership between her legal ops and finance teams. She shares her journey from executive assistant to legal ops, and how she transformed a chaotic, email-driven accrual process...
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The Rise of the Legal Engineer with Wordsmith.AI's Elly Meenan
On this episode Elly Meenan (Legal Engineering Evangelist at Wordsmith.AI) discusses the rise of the Legal Engineer role and what it means for the future of legal work. The conversation focuses on how legal engineers use technology to automate legal work and build scalable systems, bridging the…
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The Expanding Role of the Modern GC with OTC Markets Group's Daniel Zinn
On this episode Daniel Zinn (General Counsel, Chief of Staff, and Corporate Secretary at OTC Markets Group) discusses the expanding role of the modern general counsel. Dan shares how his role has evolved organically from pure legal counsel to encompass strategic business partnership, operational...
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The Future of Legal Ops with Legal Operations Leader Mary O'Carroll
On this episode, legal operations leader and industry icon Mary O'Carroll joined Brightflag's Anna Richards to discuss the evolution of legal ops roles, the differences between in-house and law firm AI adoption, and the importance of community. Mary also shared practical advice for CLOs looking…
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Building a Durable Legal Ops Function with Sanofi's Dimitri Lucas
On this episode, Dimitri Lucas (Legal Operations & Digital Transformation Manager at Sanofi) discusses his approach to developing an effective legal ops function in high-pressure corporate legal environments. Dimitri also shared tips for navigating change management, thoughts on the benefits of...
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Outside Counsel Management at Scale with John Deere's Lindsay Schuyler
On this episode, Lindsay Schuyler (Outside Counsel Strategy & Spend Manager at John Deere) joined the show for an in-depth discussion about how to effectively select, manage, and evaluate outside counsel at scale. Lindsay also shared her insights into how to demonstrate the value of the legal...
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New Beginnings with Brightflag's Anna Richards
In his final interview as host of the In-House Outliers podcast, Alex Kelly sat down for a candid conversation with Brightflag's Head of Community Anna Richards, who will be leading the show going forward. During their discussion, they touched on the value of community for legal ops…
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Surveying the Legal Landscape with Cockroach Labs' Adam Becker
On this episode, Adam Becker (Director of Legal Operations at Cockroach Labs) joined the show to discuss the current legal technology landscape, how generative AI will impact outside counsel partnerships, and the unique challenges of building out a legal ops function.
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2026 Predictions with Brightflag's Kevin Cohn
On this special episode of In-House Outliers, Brightflag's Kevin Cohn returns to share his annual legal operations and legal technology predictions for 2026.
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Enhancing Communication with Ericsson's Alexander de Nerée
On this episode, Alexander de Nerée (External Firm Relationship Counsel at Ericsson) joined Alex Kelly to discuss: -Alexander's philosophy when it comes to managing outside counsel relationships -Ways to set expectations with law firms regarding AI use, and develop more open dialogues…
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Pushing the Envelope with DoorDash's Ryan Black
On this episode, Ryan Black (Chief of Staff, Legal at DoorDash) joined the podcast recently to share his expert insights into: -Common pitfalls legal ops can encounter during legal technology evaluations—and how to avoid them -The skills he cultivated on his journey from Paralegal to Legal...
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Embracing Innovation with CyberArk's Stephanie Palmieri
On this episode, Stephanie Palmieri (Head of Legal Operations at CyberArk) joined Alex Kelly to discuss: -The keys to effective change management—including how to measure the success and necessity of legal technology implementations -How the size and maturity of an organization's legal function...
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Building Relationships with Panasonic's Terrene Collins
On this episode, Terrene Collins (Director of Legal Operations & Chief of Staff to the CLO at Panasonic North America) joined the podcast to discuss: The importance of building relationships and engaging with stakeholders throughout the organization to build an effective legal ops function How…
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Emerging Legal Ops: A Conversation with Rocket Companies’ Vice President
On this episode, Nicole Weidenhamer reflects on her eight-year journey at Rocket Companies, where she has risen from intern to VP of Legal Operations. During her conversation with Brightflag's Kevin Cohn, they discuss: How to build and scale a legal operations function The value of networking…
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Staying Agile with Etsy's Jennifer Smith
On this episode, Jennifer Smith (Legal Operations Manager at Etsy) joined the show to discuss the key skillsets legal ops professionals need to be successful, and Jennifer's own fascinating journey into the world of legal operations. Jennifer also discussed some projects she's most proud of…
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Legal Transformation in the Fortune 500: A Brightflag x Harbor Fireside Chat
Join Kevin Cohn and Stacie Neeter as they delve into the evolving landscape of enterprise legal management, and the challenges faced by modern legal departments. During their conversation, they discuss: The shift from siloed initiatives to a holistic approach to legal technology integrations, and...
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Being Data-Drive with SharkNinja's Daniel Young
On this episode, Daniel Young (Chief of Staff, Senior Director of Legal Operations at SharkNinja) joined Alex Kelly to discuss how data serves as the foundation for impactful legal operations initiatives. Daniel also discussed his fascinating career journey from being a veterinary technician to...
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Deloitte Legal AI Predictions: A Discussion with Brightflag
Mathew Steer (Associate Director of Legal Management Consulting at Deloitte Legal) joins Brightflag’s Kevin Cohn for a special podcast episode about AI’s role in corporate legal departments, including discussions around: Moving from AI proof-of-concepts to rolling out true AI programs Measuring…
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Navigating Change with Generate's Sarah Starr
On this episode, Sarah Starr (Director of Legal Operations at Generate) joined Alex Kelly to discuss her approach to change management and legal technology evaluations. Sarah also shared insights into her career journey, and offered advice to those who are just starting out in legal operations.
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Discovering New Efficiencies with Zurich Insurance's Suha Gehrer
On this episode, Suha Gehrer (Group Head of Legal Operations at Zuhrich Insurance) joined Alex Kelly to discuss the most common challenges and inefficiencies Suha has observed when it comes to implementing legal technology. Suha also shared insights into the career path that led her to legal...
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Embracing New Challenges with Kimberly-Clark's Darek Kochman
On this episode, Darek Kochman (Director of Global Legal Operations at Kimberly-Clark) joined the show to discuss how he approaches legal ops initiatives, and the importance of leaning on high-quality data when making decisions. Darek also discussed his fascinating career journey, which led him...
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Valuing Understanding with Momentive Technologies' Jeff Barlow
On this episode, Jeff Barlow (SVP, GC and Corporate Secretary at Momentive Technologies) joined Alex Kelly for an insightful discussion about the key role legal department metrics play in formulating a strategic plan around how legal work is managed, the value of clear communication with outside...
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Thinking Holistically with Vinted's Charles Stanley
On this episode, Charles Stanley (Senior Manager of Legal Operations and Technology at Vinted) discussed his career transition from CLO to legal operations, and his strategic approach to legal ops initiatives. Charles also shared his thoughts on the growing role of AI and technology within legal...
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Designing Solutions with FanDuel's Laura Revie
On this episode, Laura Revie (Legal Operations Senior Manager at FanDuel) joined the show to discuss the importance of change management when implementing new processes or technology as a legal operations professional. Laura also shared insights into her fascinating career journey from costume...
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Rising to the Challenge with Brightflag's Laura Gleeson
On this episode, Laura Gleeson (GC and VP of Legal & Compliance at Brightflag) joined the show to discuss: The benefits and challenges of transitioning from her role as a partner at a major law firm to working as an in-house legal leader How data transforms what a General Counsel and their…
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Drawing Connections with Leaf Home's Bridget Franklin
On this episode, Bridget Franklin (VP of Legal & Compliance at Leaf Home) joined the show to discuss her experience navigating the transition from working at a firm to working in-house, how she's leveraged technology to gain greater visibility into legal spend, and her feelings on the growing…
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2025 Predictions with Brightflag's Kevin Cohn
Brightflag's Kevin Cohn returns to the show for an in-depth conversation about his legal ops and legal technology predictions for 2025, touching on topics including AI regulations, the evolving CLO-legal ops relationship, and CLM consolidation.
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Leveraging Your Expertise with Legal Ops Leader Nicole Arbiv
On this episode, legal operations leader Nicole Arbiv joined the show to discuss how her accounting background helped facilitate her move into legal ops, and the projects she was most proud of spearheading in her legal operations roles. Nicole also shared insights from her career journey, and how...
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Strength Through Partnership with Cox Media Group's Eric Greenberg
On this episode, Eric Greenberg (EVP, GC, and Corporate Secretary at Cox Media Group) joined Alex Kelly to share his thoughts on legal operations, strategic partnerships with outside counsel, and the career journey that led him to working in-house. Eric also discussed how legal technology is...
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Building Upwards with ITGC's Sarah Irwin
On this episode, Sarah Irwin (CEO and Founder of ITGC) joined Alex Kelly for a discussion about her fascinating journey from private practice, to GC of a high-growth SaaS company, to Founder and CEO of her own business. Sarah also shared insights into what to prioritize when building a legal...
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Forward-Thinking with DHL's Tiffani Huynh
On this episode, Tiffani Huynh (Director of Legal Innovation, Technology, and Analytics at DHL) joined Alex Kelly to discuss her approach to process optimization, how she assesses legal tech providers, and how working for an organization that's known for efficiency informed her approach to legal...
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Process Innovation with Legal Ops Leader Reeta Sharma
On this episode, Legal Operations Leader Reeta Sharma joined Alex Kelly for a discussion about how pairing thoughtful process improvements with innovation legal technology can multiply the value that in-house legal teams can deliver to their organization. Reeta also shared her thoughts on the use...
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Strategic Thinking with Tala's Damier Xandrine
On this episode, Damier Xandrine (Chief Legal Officer at Tala) joined Alex Kelly to discuss the value that understanding an organization's financial situation can bring to an in-house legal team's ability to do its best work. Damier also discussed her thoughts on the importance of the legal...
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A Thoughtful Approach with Legal Operations Leader David Krebs
On this episode, Legal Operations Leader David Krebs joined Alex Kelly for an insightful discussion about the challenges of navigating legal ops initiatives, and how he has approached major projects throughout his career. David also reflected on his career journey, and shared his thoughts on the...
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Finding Your Voice with Saint-Gobain North America's La-Toya Hackney
On this episode, La-Toya Hackney (SVP, General Counsel & Secretary at Saint-Gobain North America) joined Alex Kelly for a candid discussion about her amazing career journey, the importance of valuing diversity in the legal field, and her general philosophy when it comes to managing an in-house...
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Learning to Prioritize with Keurig Dr. Pepper's Brandy Musick
On this episode, Brandy Musick (Senior Manager of Legal Operations at Keurig Dr. Pepper) joined Alex Kelly to discuss her approach to implementing legal technology. Brandy also shared insights from her career journey, and talked about the importance of e-billing for modern legal departments.
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Looking to the Future with Brightflag's Alex Kelly
On this special episode, Brightflag Co-Founder and COO Alex Kelly goes from host of the podcast to guest as he joins Brightflag Chief Customer Officer Kevin Cohn for a candid interview. During his conversation with Kevin, Alex discusses his own career journey, Brightflag's early beginnings, his...
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Embracing Community with One Medical's Louisa Toy
On this episode, Louisa Toy (Legal Operations Manager at One Medical) joined Alex Kelly to discuss her legal operations journey. Louisa also shared insights into the most valuable skillsets for legal ops professionals to have, and the importance of embracing the legal operations community.
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Looking Upstream with Enfusion's Matthew Campobasso
On this episode, Matthew Campobasso (General Counsel at Enfusion) joined Alex Kelly for an insightful discussion about embracing a proactive mindset as a GC. Matthew also shared his thoughts on the power of the legal operations function, and discussed his move in-house after over a decade working...
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Making Big Impacts with Trend Micro's Brent Dyer
On this episode, Brent Dyer (Director of Legal Operations, Employment Law, and Litigation at Trend Micro) joined Alex Kelly to discuss how to identify the initiatives that will have the greatest impacts on your in-house team. Brent also discussed how e-billing transformed his legal team's spend...
About this show
In-House Outliers shares the stories and secrets of those who have taken unconventional paths and challenged conventional notions of how corporate legal departments should operate.
Hosted by
Brightflag
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